by Batko Milacic for the Saker Blog
Just as Russia continues its peace operation in Ukraine, Warsaw is consulting with London. The EU is confident that the Russian blitzkrieg has fallen through and that Ukrainian troops will hold out in Kyiv and left-bank Ukraine for another week. Still, Russia’s military potential, not yet fully activated, will eventually allow Putin to achieve tangible military results. Unlike Hungary and Slovakia, the two EU countries bordering Ukraine and inherently pro-Russian, Poland boasts an impressive military potential and is openly anti-Russian. Therefore, Poland is viewed by London and Washington, as a country best suited for providing assistance to Kiev. In addition, if the situation does not change in the coming days, Poland may have to deal with an avalanche of refugees whose number is constantly increasing.
It is apparently with such concerns in mind that they are now holding a series of consultations in Warsaw mulling a dispatch of Polish troops to western Ukraine where Russian missiles are already knocking out military facilities, and thousands of refugees are streaming towards the Polish border. Besides, the Russian armed forces are unlikely to occupy a region whose population, unlike that in the east of the country, is predominantly anti-Russian. However, the public sentiment there is certainly not pro-Polish either. Until 1939, Ukraine’s eight western provinces were part of Poland, which pursued a strict nationalistic policy of “Polonization,” banning the use of the Ukrainian language there. Attempts by the local Ukrainian underground to resist this policy failed and resulted in mass-scale arrests. Small wonder that in 1939, many local residents greeted the Red Army with flowers. Until now, the Poles consider Ukrainian Lviv one of their cultural centers, calling the region the “lost eastern poviats” (district, Polish). Now it looks like Warsaw may get a chance to recoup itself.
The problem is, however, that the British are persuading the Poles to go it alone, separately from NATO. To send in peacekeepers on behalf of Warsaw, as it were, to “protect the civilian population.” By the way, this is exactly how the Soviet Union justified its decision to send the Red Army into Eastern Poland in 1939. However, back then Stalin announced that the Polish state had ceased to exist. And now the Polish army would “come to the rescue…”
Such a scenario would be really beneficial for Warsaw. First, Poland would thus manage to keep the streams of refugees inside Ukraine. Secondly, it would demonstrate its determination to defend the interests of the United Europe. Thirdly, such a decision would be a gift to the Polish nationalists and would send the approval ratings of the country’s leadership through the roof. Finally, this would greatly facilitate the delivery of military cargos and equipment to the Ukrainian army.
A possible introduction of Polish troops into western Ukraine would have its downsides, though. To begin with, Ukrainian nationalists, who are fanatically defending themselves against Russian troops, have very good memories of the past. This means that they might wage a guerrilla war against the Polish units no matter what assurances President Zelensky may give. In a situation of war, field commanders are already taking over local administrations and will act as they deem fit. In addition, a head-on clash with Russian troops is fraught not only with military losses, but also with a further escalation of the conflict. This necessitates some informal agreements with Moscow, which could be presented by both the Kremlin and Ukrainian nationalists as an agreement on the partition of Ukraine. Even if the introduction of troops is successful, the Kaczynski government will have to deal with its own nationalists who might want to annex the region, especially in view of the fact that anti-Ukrainian and great power sentiments are very strong in Poland.
That said, an introduction of Polish troops seems the most realistic of the existing options of quick assistance to Ukraine. If this happens, it would be a big victory for London and Washington in the short term, but the consequences of this in the long haul will be hard to predict!
‘Until 1939, Ukraine’s eight western provinces were part of Poland, which pursued a strict nationalistic policy of “Polonization,” banning the use of the Ukrainian language there.’
This does suggest that Ukraine’s banning of the Russian language in Eastern Ukraine is an exact mimic.
They really have learned lessons from the Jews, haven’t they? Do unto others what others did first unto you – Palestinian murdering, anyone?
Polish men, in particular, are among the most delusional bunch of people I have seen or met in my life.
and they have all forgotten what the Bandera Nazies did to them 1943
I cant believe this, how stupid and ignorant a whole nation cen get
Only germany tops that at the moment by sending arms to these fascist Nazis
look at the face and eyes of Ursula von der Leyen and the other German leaders…they have an easy, emotionless expression, showing kindness and neutrality. But their actions are driving the planet towards World War 3. That simple. Wolf in lamb skin. The worst devil is the one with the face of an angel!
German leaders are delusional. They really believe, they could achieve victory against Russia.
Merkel: “I am a hundred percent convinced that with our principles, we will win.”
Here is thier latest “Wunderwaffe”:
Unlikely. The Russians fear no army. Poland’s leaders understand this and will not risk heavy casualties against superior Russian forces. This is Russia’s business alone, and the Russians will not tolerate interference from Poland, NATO or anyone else. Fleeing refugees from Ukraine into Poland mean nothing to the Russians. Military objectives are the only thing driving the Russians at this point. Neutralizing Ukraine and saving the people of Donbas are not the concern of Poland. Hopefully, the Polish leadership understands this.
100%, and I’m Polish.
My uncle was #2 in the Polish military at times during the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions and I talked with him on this topic for almost 20 years. When you’re neighbours with the bear you do not sh1t on his doorstep.
You do not know what the bear is… in fact its very cautious animal, despite its size and weight… of course if the animal is hungry and you are alone… then anything may happen. A few words about what is going on in the Ukraine in the background: I think it is the separation of the Eastern Slavs from each other and the formation of their new independent and modern states in its final stage… of course some alien powers want to change and influence the process but its a natural process though unfortunatelly it took a tragic form… it resembles the events in Yugislavia
UK confirms that its military aid is being delivered to Polish airport about 200 ks from Ukr border..plus another 40 million in humanitarian aid. previous 200m was “loans”… Ben Wallace Defence minister says Uk will not go nuclear direction….an ex Georgian military is collecting 60 ex forces from UK to fight in Ukraine.
So ….Uk (swift must be completely closed to Russia)and EU continue exposing russophobic selves on their hysterical path and suck themselves into the quagmire that is Ukraine…Poland is not sure it will take all refugees….but the large numbers entering EU will surely be expensive….certainly to tanking finally the Ukraine economy.
So…unless there is revolution…bankruptcy…a total brain replacement amongst these “leaders” walking us into doom…. any other ideas…how can it actually come to terms with coexisting somehow with Russia….without a psychotic episode involving delf destruction.
rtuk running documentaries yesterday today re Nato and its war crimes etc ….mind you EU cutting off rt and sputnik wants to block their ears surely. How is Russian diaspora in EU feeling…..want to go home?
No doubt UK has offloaded scrap to Ukraine – those Saab LNAWs are only short range – 600m at most and one-shot disposables. I bet they are being used against buildings.
Britain is not exactly over-abundant with military supplies – Gordon Brown used to impose a Capital Levy on military stocks of c. 3% as an annual tax deducted from Current Year Budget Allocation – that is why British soldiers are known to US as “the Borrowers”
“UK confirms that its military aid is being delivered to Polish airport about 200 ks from Ukr border.” and transported into the Ukraine by Red Cross trucks. We have seen this practice in Syria.
in Bosnia too…
Not a good move for Poland to try and grab its old territory.
If it does go down this path then it should cede its former German territory stolen in 1945-46 back to Germany.
What happened in 1945 is Russia (UKN) took over Polish territory and to compensate the Poles took a chunck west of German territory.
well, the truth is that western territory up to river odra is historically slavic and all past that was inhabited by german tribes, odra was the natural frontier between both cultures for ages until germans decided to bring their superiority further east
BS. East and West Prussia were Germanic for 8 centuries.
“BS. East and West Prussia were Germanic for 8 centuries”
Sure. The aristocracy was German. But the vast majority was peasant Slavs. IMHO it is a waste of time applying modern thinking to the Middle Ages.
In the logic of the times, much of France belonged to English kings – because of their political marriages. :)
“East and West Prussia were Germanic for 8 centuries.”
For example, the Province of Pomerania as a part of Prussia and later of Germany was an autonomous Slavic land within Germany till 1917/1917. Silesa became German in 1842 – roughly something like that – as a result of Prussian victrory over Austria, which got the land from Czech Kingdom but Silesia wasnt a part of the Czech Crown – only its vassal state at the time with predominantly West Slavic population. Only in the second half of the XIX th century, when the railway connected the land and the rest of Germany, the German speaking population gradually became the majority in Silesia. BTW, some historians do not regard the initial Prussian state – Prussia and Brandenburg – as a completely German because the Germans constituted its minority – mainly the ruling minority
Yes, Russia etc NEEDS to cut that camcer-territoru OFF Ukraine.
Ithas been a complete cancer all the way back to when Ukraine took over that former LithuanianPolish empireterrotiries ( todays western-ukraine).
Divide Ukraine into 2 or 3 countries.
Then westukraine will be the cancer-country that NOONE wants, not even EU.
And at same time will now become EUs problem.
Sort of a checkmate turning the table of whom will now be infected with outherparasites.
The east of the in 1919 ”Lord Curzon Line” tsarist russian/soviet area was given to Poland by the Treaty/Peace of Riga of March 1921, taken back in 1939, lost in 1941 and retaken back in 1945.
If the Poles do this then they truly deserve to be the brunt of jokes.
If the Poles do this, it will be with the permission of Moscow. The Russians rightly appear to want no part in the long-term governance/control of West Ukraine. These territories can either be incororated into another State (i.e. Poland) or can remain a Russophobic Rump Ukraine; I dont see how it makes much of a difference which way they go….
It actually make a HUGE difference.
The westukraine part of Ukraine will forever be a threat to Russia. That cancer will always be used to proxywar and corrupt Ukraime against Russia.
While if they divide Ukraine into 2 or 3countries, where wrstukraine can get kicked out into its own country (NOT part of any other states!!!),
Then 1. Russia get them further away.
2.Ukraine circus can start to rebuild withoutthe circusclowns etc.
3. And NOW EU will have the delight of having very strong neonazi country right next to their EU borders. EU HATES that, when they cant use such tools anymore for proxy wars, then the nronazis are completly useless for the EU.
and at the same time EU are now suddrnly in a position where they themself have to deal with their own fueled creation.
So it would be a very important strategy to divide Ukraine up.
There will NEVERbe peace in ukraine or any stability from this for Russia before westukraine is kicked out of Ukraine.
Good luck Poland. Short term gain for possibly staggering long term consequences. Neo-Con thinking at its´ best.
Batko’s final conclusion is actually wrong, although he is otherwise correct. The implications of a Polish intervention in Ukraine are, in fact, very easy to predict. The Poles are so deluded, arrogant, self-worshipping seeing themselves as the indispensable saviours of Latin Christianity (in Western Europe, mind you) they are going to p••s everybody off, not least the Ukronazis. Like so many times in the past, the Poles are going to regret their silly conspiracies after the fact but their messianic garbage ideology keeps them in a stupor. The Western powers know their greedy hyena perfectly as does Russia.
In my opinion (and experience), the Serbs are better acquainted with the Turks and probably Greeks than with the Western Slavs, Belarussians and Ukrainians
Will Poland be sanctioned for invading Ukraine?
How much hypocrisy will the World tolerate?
From Turcopolier… Jacob Drezin weighs in…
“Some believe this indicates Putin’s troops are bogged down and making little progress. But I think there is an alternative explanation. First, Russia has not deployed its most sophisticated weaponry. It remains in place in Russia on the Ukrainian border but showing no signs as of this writing of being activated. Second, little attention is being paid to eastern Ukraine where the bulk of the Ukrainian Army is deployed. Jacob Dreizin offers some important insight on this:
You won’t hear this on CNN, but Putin’s Army of Darkness, in the most complex and ambitious ground maneuver operation since World War 2, following the Soviet “deep war” playbook, is also working on cutting off the Ukrainian army group in the Donbass from Kiev. This is by far the most capable (or only capable) large portion of the Ukrainian army. Yesterday, its main reserves of diesel fuel were destroyed from the air. It will soon be cut off and immobile.
Once that happens, the entire Donbass front collapses (they will no longer have a “front”), and BILLIONS of dollars in U.S.-funded or U.S.-supplied weaponry will be captured almost without a battle. (To be clear, it’s almost all U.S. funded or supplied—even most of the Soviet vintage stuff was bought and shipped in from Poland, Czechia, etc. by the CIA, “off the books” but well documented in videos of tank trains crossing the border into Ukraine, in 2015-2016.)
The Russians have finally entered Kharkov, Ukraine’s second largest city, very close to the Russian border. Previously, they had bypassed it the same way that America bypassed every town in southern Iraq to reach Baghdad in 2003. On Saturday night, they finally wasted all significant, organized resistance with a rain of thermobaric death in the outskirts. Today, they started to go in and mop up. Of course, it’s not a job for one day.
The Ukrainian army is falling back (mostly in organized fashion) throughout the Donbass. They have largely evacuated Mariupol, a very pro-Russian, major steelmaking and steel-shipping center (responsible for billions of dollars in exports) on the Sea of Azov. The sole garrison in Mariupol is now said to be the Azov regiment, a group of bona fide, tattooed Nazis—you know, your typical Ukrainian democracy guys, the ones the MSM doesn’t tell you about, and our State Department prefers to ignore. The kind of guys you must use to garrison a pro-Russian city that hates you.
The “real” army looks to be falling back to Dnepropetrovsk, about 60 miles west of Donetsk, if the Russians don’t cut them off—that’s now the big “if.” Either way, they’ll get hit badly from the air.
They are leaving behind lots of brand spanking new, British and American weaponry. I wish I had time to make a photo collage for you. It turns out, the stuff doesn’t work well. Among other things, you have to charge the battery on those Javelins or whatever. No charge, no fire. No one told them. I guess they had so many dumped on them, it was not realistic to plug them all into the wall, and sit there and wait. I can relate, I don’t even like waiting to charge one new smartphone.
The Ukrainian Air Force, what is left of it, is now flying on Helen Keller terms. It seems that Ukraine combat aircraft rely on ground controlled radar to conduct air to air intercepts. Guess what the Russians obliterated in the first hours of their invasion on Wednesday? If you said, “ground controlled radar” you are a winner.
Without that radar the Russians have air superiority. They have castrated the Ukrainians ability to provide close air support and disrupt Russian air cover. They are flying blind (if they are flying and can find an operational air field.) Then there are the lines of communication for the Ukrainian Army. Critical military fuel dumps are on fire and the ability of the Ukrainian Army to keep their tanks and trucks running is slipping away.
This perhaps explains the volte face of Zelensky in being willing to sit down with the Russians and try to negotiate an end to the evisceration of Ukraine’s military capability.”
Pretty much what I find posted on Telegram.
Isn’t Kharkov the site of a major tank repair centre ? Isn’t it also where Canadian flights were landing with munitions ?
What is Really Going on in Ukraine? An Alternative Scenario By Larry Johnson
The chief problem in all of this is we have all these tribes in Europe some of whom hate each other at times in one way or another. Its like animals in jungle forest. And its time they evolved.
Europe is tribal, yes. And that’s what the Americans tried to eradicate. Only I fear the end result of 77 years of US occupation will be that all the little conflicts suppressed over those decades are going to emerge the moment the US leaves. And that at that time, those political parties that collaborated with the US will be totally discredited.
It sounds rather dubious that it would be an advantage for anyone if Poland sends troops, except for the evil overlords of the western governments and whomever controls Biden. Its clear it would be ‘a big victory’ for London and Washington, if you mean the leaders who want carnage. But it pretty obviously is horrible for the people of London and Washington. Esp. London as those are the people most risking a faceplanted Nuke (along with Warsaw), if things escalate totally out of hand.
Why would it be a big victory for London and Washington in the short-term (what did you mean, for whom)?
People just want to live, not to be bothered by their evil overlords. Isn’t that true for pretty much any country in the world?
Also I find it strange, that you don’t mention in the article that if Poland do send troops, they have been scammed bigtime by the Biden-puppet-master overlords. The puppet masters once again get troops sent against Russia without lifting a finger and risking US, UK lives (well at least initially).
This scenario will not happen: Ukraine is Russia´s business & nobody else´s. Period.
Francisco Franco, 1937-39, during Nationalist seige of communist-held Madrid:
“I have 4 columns outside the city and one inside”
this appears to be Putin’s go-slow strategy re Ukraine cities.
I hope it works. Because
each day this so-called “war” continues,
the more escalatory mischief will be worked by the Jew-SA, NATO, EU.
The pain dial will son increase in Golan.
The Poles will again let the English put a “bug in their ear”?
It went so well in the thirties.
If only Khrushchev or Stalin had left Galicia as part of Poland – after all the Bialystok district which was annexed in 1939 was given back to Poland in 1945 – a precedent which should have been followed
If this had been done then the Ukraine which would have emerged after the fall of the Soviet Union would have been far less anti Russian – basically another Belarus or Kazakhstan
A civil war would then have been far less likely in the absence of the extreme nationalists from the west
Would have been a bit rough on the Poles who would have had to deal with these nutters
Not quite so simple. Galicia had been part of Austria-Hungary since the Partitions c. 1772 and lots of Germans from Pfalz etc had moved there.
USSR incorporated it into West Ukraine 1939 until Germany took over – and 1945 Stalin had the Germans expelled and since Poland moved 100 miles westwards – the population were transferred to territory seized from Germany to form Western Poland……..and Galicia was re-populated with Ukrainians from other areas
True Paul – this part of Ukraine had never been part of Imperial Russia – being ruled by the old Polish commonwealth and then following the partitions the Austrian Empire
Between the wars the rural population was Ukrainian with Polish landlords, The urban population was mostly Polish and Jewish and German
Between 1939 and 45 the Jews were murdered and so were a fair few of the Poles (by both Poles and Ukrainian nationalists) and as you say the remaining Poles were moved into the new western territories of Poland and other Ukrainians migrated in. Today Poles account for about 1% of the local population in Lvov fewer than locals who are ethnic Russians
Far fetched in my opinion. I think people must listen to the Russian leadership, which does not speak with a forked tongue. The objective of the current campaign is ‘Denazification’ and ‘demilitarisation’, and unlike campaigns of the ‘exceptional’ sorts, it is not aimed at the civilian population and infrastructure or institutions of the state. Civilian casualties are avoided or extremely minimal and this is frustrating the ‘exceptional’ crowd who are crying for blood and gore for propaganda purposes against the Russian government. The Russians are looking for partners to work with’ as President Putin has stated. It is not in the interest of the campaign to decimate the institutions of the state like the army. life must go on after this campaign in Ukraine’ and the Russians have no interest in occupying the country. The country will not be dismembered, but the nazi crowd will get its just desserts. From where I am in South Africa, I salute the leadership and armed forces of the Russian federation for the professional manner in which they conduct themselves, especially for never losing focus of what they have set out to achieve.
“The objective of the current campaign is ‘Denazification’ and ‘demilitarisation’” I agree.
Russia has no reason to enter and/or occupy the cities. They have stated numerous times that civilian areas and civilians have nothing to fear. By surrounding them they are simply keeping them out of the Russian Armies way as the go about demilitarizing and denazifying Ukraine. Once done with meeting those objectives they will walk back out carrying Ukraine’s spent nuclear fuel with them. Unlike the US/West ,they are in no hurry and want to keep civilian casualties to the very minimum.
This effort has no relationship to what the Americans did with Shock and Awe in Iraq that many would like to see. It is a very Russian approach to their issues. It is also the opening salvo of Russia and China’s new world order of multipolarity. Notice that only the US/West is actively supporting the Ukrainians. Everyone is watching to see if Russia can stand and if so the USWest’s 500 years of world domination is truly over. This is a fight for all the marbles on the table.
I think we all agree, the world would be a better place if Germany had won WW 1.
Not sure if the above judgment is serious, but it is dead wrong. Of all the European inbred Royals, Imperial Germany was ruled by the absolutely worst Russophobe around in those days, backed up to the hilt by a very powerful Officer Corps viewing Russia as theirs to take.
What is good about Germany is that she keeps Poland in check from the West. As the Germans say themselves:
— Heute gestohlen, morgen in Polen.
When will Europe realise that the Anglosphere, (US,UK) is determined to cause as much trouble in Europe as possible. Suggestions whispered in to the ears of European leaders are absolutely intended to cause enmity and conflict, in the hope that once Europe is destroyed in another war, the UK, US will be in pole position to reap the benefits.
One can only hope that the UK / US get their just deserts.
Yankee, go home!
Continental Europe will never “learn”. Because of Vatican related structures. See, the United States is nominally the largest Christian nation in the world (and the whitest, not that that is a problem). Vatican structures, which are located in the continent, cannot afford to disregard the “leader of the Anglo-Saxon world”. Incidentally, Poland is very Catholic.
To think otherwise is to be fooled by geopolitical dialectic (“evil” sea-faring Anglos versus “good” feudal God-fearing Europeans).
“Such a scenario would be really beneficial for Warsaw.”
OUN was created in response to the minority issues facilitated by the Treaty of Versailles in “validation/requirement” of the Second Polish Republic 1919-39 whose demise was facilitated by “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” with the complicity of the Second Polish Republic and others.
The ancestors of some in the present Republic of Poland were afforded refuge in the period from 1940 until 1947 by “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” whilst some decided to return to Poland in 1947 and subsequent, including some being disappointed in not being invited to the parade.
Although often misguided by default and design, historical memory is not absent in the present Republic of Poland, and hence the scenarion that you posit may not be perceived as beneficial for Warsaw or any other settlement in Poland or elsewhere, since although often misguided by default and design historical memory is not absent in the present Ukraine, and the scenario that you posit would facilitate many opportunities of rendering those without appropriate historical memory useful fools, thereby facilitating opportunities for others.
“A possible introduction of Polish troops into western Ukraine would have its downsides, though”
I would add that Western Ukraine is not precisely the Rhein Valley: A destroyed economy with a local population difficult to employ and carrying heavy baggage of past scores to set with other ethnic groups. Kind of adopting a full orphanage of children with Dawn syndrome (a life-long burden without any hope of improvement).
Bringing polish troops to the ukraine warzone would be a fatal mistake and polish soldiers will die in masses.
No wonder the uk wont help there as they are not suicidal
If Poland does such a stupid move the risks will be impossible to forsee
But then again the Polish government isnt really full of smart people
Putting Polish troops in Western Ukraine, Russel Bentley mentioned this as something that would happen. At 19:05 he talks of NATO taking the western part of Ukraine. Polish troops would be the “NATO” troops.The Russians would have the eastern part of Ukraine, which is happening now.
Does Russia really care about Western Ukraine, beyond preventing Nazis committing acts of violence/murder against ethnic Russians further East?
The real question is what the people actually living there want.
It’s high time that people stopped playing politics and drawing new maps with zero regard for human beings living there.
If that’s the way things go, no one should ever give Government Officials the benefit of human rights. They can be killed as animals and no crime committed…..
Poland taking over the Greater Lemberg area would be logical. As would be Hungary taking over Zakarpattia. BUT: That is only a “viable” option with Russian approval. Any foreign forces entering Ukraine without Russian approval will be destroyed, NATO or not. And “viable” because that would truely shake the EU. In any case the situation is very much like 1939.
Oh dear…didn’t I see this coming. And you are not making this suggestion at all in order to offer Russia a casus belli against former Warsaw Pact countries. Nice try but more imagination and subtlety is needed. Oops, sorry, I forgot FSB has none of that.
Not that applicable with Kgb, I mean FSB. The stupid perfect “shortrunnist” players here are the CIA and the remainder 16…
They play much like the capitalist mentality wherethey are inserted: maximum profit in minimum possible time.
You wrote: “The problem is, however, that the British are persuading the Poles to go it alone, separately from NATO.” It follows that the British are thinking about “Article 5.” NATO said it is a “defensive alliance.” I don’t know if NATO would be freed from its obligation to defend Poland if war were to break out against Poland in such a context. From your article, however, we gather that the British would be ready to say that Poland acted outside of NATO and on its own. You actually assert that it is NATO who should go into Poland instead (quote above); I don’t know if you meant something else, but the problem is that you are not mentioning anything about Article 5.
Secondly, you don’t mention the stated goals of the Russian invasion, one of them is “disarmament”, which Polish troops in Western Ukraine would – might – contradict even more for them. Putin might argue that they could become NATO troops faster than defensive missiles can be turned into offensive missiles…
Further warmongering in the East European bloodlands. Well did Churchill call Poland the jackal of Europe.
Older Alex reads the same tea leaves too (YT “US & EU make big push for regime change in Russia”) – a partition of Ukraine, in an agreement with US or with Hungary & Poland, is in the offing. This using of Poland as a staging area, as well as Russian AF leaving that region alone, is most pregnant to Galicia’s future! Imagine if you could go back in time and strangle a Nazi Reich while still in the cradle (I know, I know) – this process appears in motion as part of Galician de-nazification.
I sensed as much in earlier comments to Larch (his dream being imminent after VVP’s Decision late night speech of 21.2.2022) as well as recently in comment to Tanking:
There are some interesting possible consequences to that scenario that would benefit Russia.
For one, a north-western NATO protectorate would rid the rest of the Ukraine of its most anti-Russian districts. One problem Russia will face after the fighting is over is that without the Crimea and the Donbass republics, there is no pro-Russian majority in the Ukraine anymore. So if they intend to give the country back to the Ukrainian people, it might not solve the problem.
If the north-western part would split off however, and if the Donbass republics then rejoin a newly established ‘Ukraine’, there would be a pro-Russian majority again. That would solve a lot of the potential post-war problems.
Also, Russia could allow the ‘old’ Ukrainian state to continue on as a rump state governed from Lvov, while the rest of the country reforms as a new nation. This would burden the Lvov regime with all of the old financial debts (IMF and others) and old obligations, while allowing the new nation to start afresh.
It would also dump a massive problem right into Europe. Let them deal with a Banderistan on their doorstep.
As I said, there are a lot of interesting angles to such a scenario.
I also thinks that Galizia is cheaply for sale as long it can be guaranteed that it will not become nuclear armed.
As a Pole, all I can say is, any suggestion that Poland should get involved is preposterous. It is a beautiful and a stable country. The war is between Russia and Ukraine and it should remain so. Let the two sides figure it out. I have not heard these preposterous suggestions from Polish media. I have seen it among Russian bloggers especially here. Why are you trying to expend the conflict? Keep your problems to yourselves.
I agree that the idea is preposterous. It is also unfair to make such a point without citing any sources, and no sources were cited.
Putin is a zionist behind kisser and an ally of Israel, an apartheid entity. No one should support a zionist state like Russia and a zionist Jewish kisser like Putin. The Jewish mafia manipulate Both Putin and Biden:
[Israel initially sought to walk a fine line. It expressed support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty but did not mention Russia in its statements prior to Russian attack on the East European country. Similarly, it has stopped Baltic states from transferring Israeli-made weapons to Ukraine.
Israel fears that criticism of Russia or material support of Ukraine could prompt Russia to retaliate by intervening in Syria in ways that would prevent Israel from striking against Iranian forces and Iranian-backed militias in the country.]
Why the zionist baby killer, Bennett, is offering to be a MEDIATOR, and Putin did not refused. Only a zionist expansionist like putin.
Down with zionists and its stooges. Shame on the propagandist who justify the lies of the zion and its servants like Putin and Biden. Fuck you all
Putin is a genius, and the rest of the not “international” community will always remember him with Love. He took back Russia from the hands of Western Zionist and rebuilt Russia for the great Russian people. There are so many Western financed threats against him in his mother land, but the majority of Russians will turn against them. Yes, the Zionist Jews are still a power in the motherland, but they control all Western countries by playing on the natural racial dna feelings of the subservient white race. After exhibiting enormous patience to protect brother civilians, he will unleash some of the weapons (described in 2018). These pauses against Western funded neo_ Nazis are only to rout them out at a low cost to civilians. After this, the real weapons will be turned against the whole of Europe, never mind the economic pain that the Zionist controlled “5 eyes” have brought upon the west. Oh, and the home of the Zionist North America will be up against attacks and I in Canada will suffer it. But it is for the good for the rest of the world. I fundamentally believe that China is 200% with Russia , and I will eat my words, and die a sad man, who always wanted peace in this world. Please remember the words ” denazification and demilitarization”, and then on the Nazis in the baltics “take your troops and weapons out”, or face complete anhillation.
I am sure London would encourage such folly – Liz Truss is the demented female equivalent of Alex Johnson. Poland has form – Cieszyn Silesia.
Warsaw confirmed promise not to let the Red Army cross its territory, and not allow the Soviet Air Force to assist Czechoslovakia, offered its own plan for the Czechoslovak Republic: Cieszyn region to Poland, Transcarpathia and Slovakia – Hungary, Czech Republic and rest for Germany.
No doubt Russia would happily see Galicia and Lwow return to Poland…….it would make Rump Ukraine more stable and Poland less so
Ja jestem ze Śląska Cieszyńskiego – Cieszyn Silesia – Galicja należała do Austrowęgier, Bielsko- Biała i Cieszyn na Śląsku Cieszyńskim przed II wojną światową była najbardziej niemiecko języczna, ale oprócz polskiego – góralskiego, był tu też czeski , słowacki, Jidysz. Polska zaanektowała Śląsk Cieszyński przed II wojną światową aż do czeskiej Ostravy, o Zaolzie były ciągłe walki między polską a czechami. Po drugiej wojnie światowej granica Polska- Czechy ustanowiona na Olzie, a Cieszyn to granica Polski. W latach 70′ wojska układu warszawskiego czyli Polska i Rosja weszły na tereny Czeskie zdławić rozruchy i powstania Czeskie. Polskie lotnictwo lądowało Migami w Olomuniec miasto Czeskie , mój ojciec tam lądował wtedy służył w lotnictwie Polskim. Ja sam nie czuje się polakiem tylko Ślązakiem i wole Śląsk jako wolne Państwo, tak jak ogłosiły się Donieck i Ługańsk wolne od Ukrainy. Śląsk Cieszyński to dawne księstwo niezależne od Polski. I jako ślązak nie czuje się polakiem. Polska odzyskując Lwów musiała by dużo zainwestować w czyszczenie z band UPA Bandery a następnie odbudować gospodarczo. Ale Polski już nie ma Polska to Kolonia USA a rząd to marionetki, polacy są zamerykanizowani i ulegli pokusie amerykańskiego snu. Mam nadzieje że kiedyś się Słowianie obudzą! Sława Rosji! Sława Polsce! Sława Śląsku! Sława Ukrainie! Sława Doniecku! Sława Ługańsku!
Germany is going to re arm and invade Europe in order to protect it from “Russian Aggression “ An act which is facilitated and enabled by NATO doctrines. Read between the lines of Scholz’ speech.
It is not Russia that is the danger to the Baltic States.
Apart from anything else, Scholz should be sanctioned for excessive use of exclamation marks.
like the most popular kid in high school whose life peaked during that period, Poland peaked in the 10th century and they’ve been trying to find their ancient glory ever since, even dragging the world into a world war for that reason
I would have thought that Russia’s high nuclear alert status is a clear warning against any external interference or incursions into Ukraine. Or am I mistaken? Surely even the rabid Poles aren’t that stupid?
If we’re talking realignment according to some historical precedent, then Russia would have to give back Karelia to Finland and Kaliningrad to Prussia, which would have to reappear, while Lithuania could claim huge chunks of Ukraine as well as Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans. There’s no end to it. It’s the whole reason why Israel is what it is.
It seems far more preferable, to me, for Russia to escalate economic warfare, as a means to forestall overt fighting with a NATO country, which could easily escalate to nuclear exchanges.
Is it not in both Russia’s interest, as well as the interest of everybody looking to avoid nuclear exchanges, for them to cut off gas and oil exports (as well as minerals and wheat), to the NATO countries, until the Ukraine situation is resolved?
While I think this is what certain Western elites want – economic devastation, blamable on a foreign country, which will enable power grabs, disaster capitalism, and forestall accountability for their covid ‘response’ – it will also accelerate populist and antiwar movements growing.
US/UK/NATO: “We will fight to the last Ukrainian! We will fight to the last Pole!”
Yes thats what we are hearing now by the dogs at the root cause of all this.
Perhaps Obama and Soros ought to go fight the Russian Liberation Army in Ukraine to show their support given they started all this ?
Paul CRAIG R offers in his blog very interesting comments, about the Western stupidity, irrationality and mental poverty and incomprehension of the Russian mentality and morality. But, at the same time, the reactive and passive attitude of the Kremlin. Going to war you cannot be sentimental, you cannot think that there will be no civilian casualties…. is a weakness of Russia in invading Ukraine. You either go to war or you don’t go to war, you either aim or you shoot or you don’t aim. This indecision, slowing down by possible Z negotiations only allow to regroup Ukrainian forces and the West to rearm Ukraine from Poland. This has already been announced by Borrel. If Russia does not end this, at any cost, the situation will be worse… The Kremlin did not learn anything in these 8 years hoping that the Minks agreements would be respected. All the countries that want to mediate or call to negotiate, to which Putin runs illusively, are the ones that continue to send arms to Ukraine.
Acting within the rule of law and protecting civilians is never a mistake, especially when you opponent does not.
It’s not a sign of weakness to hope and work for peace, which is what Russia has been doing for the last 8 years.
However, we who live here in the west, to our eternal shame, knew it was never going to happen. Our “leaders” are, literally, psychopaths. They don’t care who gets killed as long as they can keep their dream of world domination alive. Putin and his team should be praised for their statesmanlike restraint, not condemned for doing nothing for too long.
staying within your objective and mandates is NOT a form of weakness. On the contrary it reflects discipline and self-control. This is the debut episode of multipolar moment. The whole world is looking closely how the Russian military carry through this mission, because the world knows how things come to this. It is only those fools out on the street protesting with signs who have no clue to what has been going on. The order from the top has been very clear – no unneeded civilian casualties. The price the Russian troops pay for this could be quite unsettling for some but these soldiers are dying at least for a cause where the reputation of their motherland ranks higher than each of their individual life. I salute their professionalism and sacrifice they each make for their country. It demonstrates to us that there is still hope for a saner world.
Yes, that is my thinking for months, give them something to choke with, Galicia.
Place were all Nazis from Borderland should end up.
Also, that provokes Germans to start thinking about parts of Poland.
The underlying source the west-east problem that has culminated in this current UKN crisis stem from the fact the EU is short of land and resources.
Part of the problem arose when the UK, France etc., stole Germany’s overseas territories after WW1 (in Africa & Pacific — eg now Tanzania Cameroon Namibia), and later FDR required more de-colonization after WW2 from UK.
Its conceivable if that theft had not occurred WW2, particularly in the east, may not have happened.
What a solution to this is for Russia – who has lots of land – to consider to sell an appropriate modest chunk of its territory (under certain very strict conditions (no offensive weapons there)) for a suitable amount of money, then the EU make the place a powerhouse for eco trade & expansion with Russo-Asia.
But knowing how greedy and unreasonable the EU elite pigs are, that may not be enough or possible.
And there may not an area that could be agreed upon.
The last thing the Poles need is to get entangled in a war with Russia. Don’t send arms to Ukraine either. The Poles can arrange a solid defence of their own frontier and help out the 100’s thousands of incoming refugees.
Don’t forget to get your Nazies with the new territory Poland. There’s a reason there are so many Polish jokes expressing dumbness.
Didn’t England hang Poland out to dry in 1939 ?
It might be a smart move for Russia to let Galicia go, either as an independent state or annexed to Poland. Eventually there will have to be elections in the Ukraine and with Crimea and the Donbass detached from the republic, that leaves a strong anti-Russian majority. The balance could be somewhat rectified at least by also detaching Galicia.
“……..and that Ukrainian troops will hold out in Kyiv….”
The Russia’s military categorically said it would not enter Kiev.
Allowing Polish troops into western Ukraine will certainly start a world war and no doubt will reignite ancestral resentments amongst the Lemko and Rusyn diaspora in the USA, some of whom may have softened in their sympathy toward those with a Ukrainian identification but remember the stories of their grandparents well. We are small people and we can forgive, but we will not forget and allow history to repeat itself.
It will definitely become a holy war if this happens.
Ukrainian nationalists have very good memories of the past?
Have you heard of Bandera?
Do you have any clue what the bastards above did to Poles? (killed 100k-200k during and after the war)
I was explaining to someone yesterday who purports himself to be a student of history and he never heard of this.
I gave an example of how OUN/UPA would come into a Polish village where all the men were off fighting the Nazis and they would round up the old men, women and children into a church and burn it all down. I initially heard this from a family friend 30 years ago. The one of the men listening said that was precisely how his Polish grandfather lost his ENTIRE FAMILY while he was out fighting in Monte Cassino. Sure helped me make my point.
One of the Polish generals asked a couple years why he should help the Ukrainians when they crucified his grandfather on his barn.
Churchill didn’t write that Poland was a hyena – or greedy hyena. He only wrote that Poland had the “hyena appetite”. Source: Second World War: the Grand Alliance, his book. Also: The Gathering Storm
URL: The Second World War – page 144
URL: The Gathering Storm – page 311
“And now, when every one of these aids and advantages has been squandered and thrown away, Great Britain advances, leading France by the hand, to guarantee the integrity of Poland – that very Poland which with hyena appetite had only six months before joined in the pillage and destruction of the Czechoslovak State.”
This would be the dumbest thing Poland could do, short of accusing Russia of murdering their president. Does Poland need to give more motivation for Russia to kick their… what’s that Polish word from the streets of Chicago…dupa.
Besides, establishing a nest of Ukies within your country simply guarantees trouble there down the road. They’ll want to contradict their own present contentions and declare themselves an independent republic.
About 350 000 refugees fled to Poland, it seems in a few months Ukraine will be depopulated in some regions then Israel can start a war against Iran and other enemies, if the Jews lose that war then they can occupy these desolate Ukrainian territories
– fantastic (!!!) but such are some conspiracy theories based on general Ivashov’s article ( in Russian here): http://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/539470
…and these Putin’s consultations with the Israeli Jews and Zelensky team…
Polska jest kolonią USA, korporacją Republic Polan Of zarajestrowaną w Waszyngtonie jak i wszystkie państwowe jednostki, nawet polska policja ma DUNS ! Polski prezydent to marionetka jak cały rząd polski, Premier Morawiecki i minister zdrowia Niedzielski nie podlegają jurysdykcji państwa polskiego. Cały rząd oprócz tylko jednego posła Brauna jest sprzedana albo zastraszona. dwie dominujące partie polityczne są przeciwko polakom. Polacy są zamerykanizowani i ulegli pokusom pieniądza i zachodniego stylu życia. Nieliczni są jeszcze świadomi może 20 % społeczeństwa. Polska na dziś ma sprane mózgi i nie pójdzie odebrać swoje tereny Lwów. Ale w duszy jesteśmy Słowianami i kiedyś obudzi się nasza dusza gdy nadejdzie nasz czas, a Rosjanie to nasi bracia, przyszłość należy do Słowian!
Nevertheless, so far its not so bad – Duda refused to give over the jet fighter aircrafts to Ukraine, as that mad German Ursula von Something suggested…
Loss of Ukraine territory due to restitution…
The blog post below pertains to how Ukrainians citizens might lose property -possibly not sovereign territory, but loss to citizens from other countries, namely Poland, Hungary, and Romania. It was an interesting and thought provoking article in 2015 and is still of interest today.
A voice (BMD’s Voices from Russia blog) seems to have gone missing from the internet.
I never new her or even her actual name. Yet, I always enjoyed her posts and opinions -especially in regard to Ukraine and Orthodoxy.
“As you know, the USSR resettled more than 800,000 Poles living in the Ukraine in modern Poland. Accordingly, one can imagine what would be the total amount of property claims. That’s just on the part of Poland, but there are also Hungary and Romania, which are also likely to want to get their part of the “restitution pie”. It’s difficult to say how the restitution process would work out, but surely, it’d be painful.”
Perhaps such issues of restitution will be considered, maybe not in the current Ukraine~Russia war dialogues, but in a final resolution of the Ukraine crisis which, if to happen, would likely include the participation of other countries of Europe and the main “Western curators”.