by Oriental Review
On Monday March 23, the US House of Representatives adopted H. Res. 162 urging president Obama “to provide Ukraine with military assistance” in dire attempt to reignite conflict in the East of Ukraine, mainly frozen as a result of February 2015 Minsk agreements between Kiev and the outbreak Donetsk and Lugansk provinces with French, German and Russian mediation. The general presumptions of the resolution are as evident as false: it contains routine mantras about “Russian aggression”, “Crimea occupation”, “violent separatist proxies” and “insurrection that has resulted in over 6,000 dead, 15,000 wounded, and more than a million displaced persons”, as if the insurgents are using heavy artillery against their own cities and killing their own children (to say nothing about the fact that “displaced persons” are predominantly running to Russia to seek protection and personal safety away from the conflict zone).
Meanwhile earlier this month the Foundation for the Study of Democracy (FSD) has published a new comprehensive report «War Crimes of the Armed Forces and Security Forces of Ukraine». It is based on the evidence provided since August 2014 to January 2015 by at least 200 residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk provinces who were forcefully detained and kidnapped by the Ukrainian military and security forces and later handed back to Donetsk and Lugansk authorities according to “hostages release” provisions of the September 2014 Minsk protocol. Here we provide a dozen of citations of this bone-chilling document:
The prisoners were electrocuted, beaten cruelly and for multiple days in a row with different objects (iron bars, baseball bats, sticks, rifle butts, bayonet knives, rubber batons).
Techniques widely used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include waterboarding, strangling with a ‘Banderist garrotte’ and other types of strangling.
In some cases prisoners, for the purposes of intimidation, were sent to minefields and run over with military vehicles, which led to their death.
Other torture methods used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include bone-crashing, stabbing and cutting with a knife, branding with red-hot objects, shooting different body parts with small arms.
The prisoners taken captive by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces are kept for days at freezing temperatures, with no access to food or medical assistance, and are often forced to take psychotropic substances that cause agony.
An absolute majority of prisoners are put through mock firing squads and suffer death and rape threats to their families.
Many of those tortured are not members of the self-defense forces of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).
The report relates a huge number of shocking cases which would make stand the hair of any sane human being:
Andrey Runov: ‘During the night 23–24 November I was arrested at my home by the Aidar battalion. We were taken to the airport of Mariupol. The beating and torture there were so severe that we kept blacking out. They would beat us on the heels, ribs and head. They said they were going to break our legs, threatened to cut off our ears and gouge our eyes out. One of my cellmates got his insides beaten up and skull fractured; he was paralyzed as a result.’
Alexander Ryabchenko: ‘… I was crucified in a locker room on a sheet of wire mesh. They would come every hour and kick me. The next day I was taken to Debaltsevo. There they took me to the chief investigator who asked me if I would cooperate. I said there was nothing I could tell them, that I knew nothing. After that he called three assistants in and ordered them to beat everything they needed out of me. They tied my hands behind my back and suspended me on the door; my right foot was tied to the handle of another door by a rope, so I was standing only on my left foot. Two of them started to kick me on my left leg. Then I was taken to the hall, hands tied with scotch tape behind my back, and suspended by a rope tied to my hands and right foot. They put a black bag over my head and kept beating me until I blacked out.’
Yury Slusar: ‘On 4 November I was arrested by the Azov and SBU men when I was at work in the town of Druzhkovka. I was taken to Kramatorsk. They beat me on the head and feet with a saw chain, fired a gun close to my ear, threatened to shoot me in the head or to shoot my feet. They humiliated me and said they were going to rape me. They threatened to bring my wife and daughters in and torture them in front of me. I could not eat for three days. The only food I got was water and rusks.’
German Mandrikov: ‘I am just a civilian, I had not participated in the military actions but the SBU investigators forced me to incriminate myself through torture. In early October I went to see my mother and was arrested by unknown men. They took me to the airport of Mariupol where for three days in a row I suffered beastly torture. They used both psychological and physical abuse: they gave me electric shock, suffocated me with a plastic bag, beat on the feet with a tire iron, poured freezing water on me, etc. The torturers had an Azov insignia on their sleeves. They threatened to rape my mother and bride. I could not bear the torment any longer and signed some documents without even reading them.’
According to accounts by the victims, the Ukrainian army, the National Guard, various units of the Ministry of the Interior and the Security Service of Ukraine employ a whole range of torture techniques.
Many of the victims say that they were stabbed and cut with a knife.
Dmitry Klimenko: ‘I was captured on 8 July 2014 by the Donbass battalion when I was at home. I lost conscious during the arrest and came to only in the car. I had a bag on my head. They began beating me. They kicked me on the ribs, broke three of them. They kicked me on the head too. And I fainted once again. I gained conscious only when they poured water on me. One the men took a knife and started stabbing me in the leg while continuing the questioning. Another one gave me electric shock. This inquisition continued for ten hours. In the morning they decided to carry on with the interrogation. I was kicked on the body and on the ribs. It was then that I realized I had had my ribs broken. I fell with my face to the ground, heard the bolt of a rifle click and a burst shot into the ground. When they saw that I was not going to tell them anything, they put me in a car trunk and took somewhere. Then I found myself in an office. I instantly understood that it was the SBU. I spent two days there. Afterwards I was taken to a court and to an attorney. I had a chat with him and then came the investigating officer. I was brought into a court room. The judge took no notice of my wounds, though they were evident.’
Igor Kozlov: ‘I was arrested on 18 July at a checkpoint not far from Popasnaya by the VSU. They beat me up, tortured me and tried to cut my ear off.’
Alexander Kashenko was captured by the “Dniepro” battalion on 13 November 2014 and describes in detail the torture inflicted on him by the Ukrainian security forces, ‘I had a bag on my head during the beating. They beat me with metal-plastic tubes. There were two, then three of them. They would hit me on the head, back, feet and kidneys. They tried to suffocate me with a fist stopping me from breathing, used an electro-shock device on me. They beat me with a rifle butt and kicked me with their army boots. I had ribs broken. The beatings with the use of a metal-plastic tube left six lesions on my skull. They would hit me with a hammer, too. I got fingers, arms and a bone in my hand injured. I blacked out twice. The beatings continued for more than a day. They began cutting me with a knife asking questions they wanted to be answered. They stabbed a knife into my leg, turned it and stuck it even deeper, turned it again and so on. Then they tried to cut off my fingers.’
A large number of victims assert that the torture techniques used include burning skin with the gas burners or burning-hot objects and burning various inscriptions into the skin of the prisoners.
Alexander Piksunov: ‘We were ambushed and captured by the National Guard. For three days in a row they kept torturing us, they would beat us and burn us nonstop; they would suspend us from the ceiling. I was hooded and they burnt me with what I think was a gas burner. They hung me by my arms; the scars have not healed yet and I cannot feel my right arm, it’s numb. My ribs still hurt. Those people, they would kick me, and tie my hands behind my back and strap a hand grenade safety pin to my finger. You move – you pull the pin. As a result, I had to sit still through the night so as not to pull it. I had to sit still but sometimes even wanted rip the pin out. Some asked to be shot, but those people would say that it was too easy of a death, though they repeatedly put us against the wall menacing with a gun, pulled the trigger but there was no shot, just the sound. Some of us asked them to shoot us, to stop torturing us, but the answer was that it was too easy of a death for us, that we were no human, traitors of our country. They are not human at all, they are animals.’
Stanislav Stankevich: ‘On 24 August 2014, our car was shot at by teh National Guard. The driver and I were taken to Kramatorsk, where we were tortured, questioned, beaten by National Guardsmen. They beat me so hard they injured my eye; I cannot see with that eye now. They burnt the word “sepr” (separatist) into my chest and a Nazi cross into my buttocks. After three days of beating, we were taken to the office of the Security Service in Kharkov. Only after spending 24 hours on the stone floor in a bathroom did we join the others in the mass cells.”
The methods of torture being used include crashing different parts of the victim’s body.
Alexey Stenov was taken prisoner on 26 August 2014: ‘When I was captured and they put me face down on the ground, the only thing I heard was, “Let’s take the big one. Get rid of the short one and the old one.” There were nine of us in the group. We were put in an APC and taken to an unknown locality; later it became clear that it was the 11th reconnaissance battalion. It was there that they started hitting us on the toes with a sledge and on the knees and on the legs – with a hammer, they beat us with shovel handles…at night they tied us to some fence, stripped to underwear, and poured cold water on us throughout the night.’
The torture victims indicate that the Ukrainian army and law enforcement bodies systematically employ a torture technique called ‘waterboarding’. Previously, this method was used by the American secret services:
V. Popov: ‘I was captured by the Shakhtersk battalion and taken to the transit police station. I was tortured there. They put me on my back and poured water into my mouth. I felt as if I was drowning. Thenthey brought me to my senses. They threatened to shoot me.’
Sergey Skidan: ‘I was arrested by the SBU on September 11 2014. They brought me in and started beating me; they also waterboarded and cross-questioned me and gave me electric shock. At a certain moment I blacked out and came to in another cell. After a while, they followed the same procedure and threw me into a cell again. Then a man came to me and asked me what I wanted to say to my family; he forced me to stand on my knees and pressed a gun against me between the shoulder blades. I heard a click and then he said that the next time would be different.’
Denis Gavrilin was captured by the Ukrainian National Guard on 31 July 2014 and handed over to the Azov battalion, describes the same torture technique: ‘I was blindfolded; they put a cloth on my face and poured water. I could not see anything. And my hands were handcuffed behind my back. They were holding my head from behind and pouring water over the cloth that was covering my face. I do not know whether they were pouring water from a teapot or a bottle…I felt as if I was drowning. Then they brought me to… and then did the same thing.’
The victims indicate that the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces use other torture techniques as well, for example suffocation with plastic bags, gas masks, etc.
Leontiy Lazarev: ‘On 4 November armed soldiers of the 71st airborne brigade force-entered my house. They hit my wife and pushed me down on my belly. Three people jumped onto me and started jumping on my body and trampling all over it. Then, not having found anything in my house, the soldiers put a bag on my head, tied my hands, and brought me outside the village. They were kicking me. Some time passed, and finally an SBU car came and took me to a location unknown to me. One of the men in the car told me to address him as Yesaul1. In a while, we stopped; they led me out of the car and fired over my head. Then, they hit me on the head with something heavy, and I passed out. When I came to again they were dragging me out of the car. They sat me on a bench, and Yesaul, not saying a word, started beating me with a metal rod. He was putting a gas mask on me, over and over, until I began to suffocate. I had to sign their protocols even though I had no chance to read them. They were grounds for the criminal case against me and for my imprisonment in the Mariupol pre-trial detention facility.’
The so-called ‘Banderist garrotte’ is used as a weapon – both for intimidation and torture.
Yevgeny Pavljuk, captured on 10 September 2014 by the SBU, says, ‘At the SBU, they put a garrotte round my throat, kicked me and beat me on the head and in the kidneys with a rifle butt, hooded me, poured water on me. And later on, at a pre-trial investigation facility beat me on the head with the Criminal Code of Ukraine.’
Based on the information collected by the FSD, a clear conclusion can be drawn that most of the torture victims are not members of the Donetsk or Lugansk People’s Republics’ self-defense
forces, but civilians. A ‘reason’ for arrest and torture of civilians by the Ukrainian side can be as simple as involvement in anti-Euromaidan rallies, participation in Russian TV shows, expression of your opinion on the Internet, involvement in pro-DPR rallies, participation in the referendum on independence, ‘possession of a telephone number of a Russian journalist’, ‘Caucasian names – Aslan, Uzbek’ in the personal phone contacts, a phone conversation with people from ‘the Donetsk People’s Republic’, ‘receiving medical assistance in the DPR’, etc. The same absurdity and lack of substantial evidence is characteristic of the other accusations.
VIDEO EVIDENCE (audio in Russian, dated February 7, 2015, important timeline points: 0:30, 1:17, 1:30, 2:06):
As the military victory of Kiev over the breakaway provinces is hardly achievable even with the outdated NATO arms pouring into Ukraine, the only lethal weapon Pres.Obama can authorize to export now are the new torture techniques…
The worst scum from a degenerate ethos are the “shining stars” of the US government program for proxy war and chaos.
What’s new here?
Been this way in Africa, Latin America, SE Asia and the Middle East for decades and decades.
The Intel agencies and State Dept. have always funded and controlled bestial forces to do their work.
Excellent return on investment. They get what they pay for.
If Russia is responsible for the situation in Ukraine for supporting the “terrorists”, and more specifically for the downing of the MH17, the same logic should be applied to the US. These monsters are nothing but mercenaries for the US.
Each time I hear about some atrocities being committed by some psychopaths, I think “US”. It has become a reflex.
NB: I tried to find a definition of “Banderist garrotte”. What it is exactly?
The so-called ‘Bandera garrotte1’ is used as a weapon – both for intimidation and torture. A nurse named Olga, who was captured on 15 October 2014, says, ‘During the questioning at the SBU, one of them showed me an iron wire in the form of a spiral . He asked me, “You know what it’s called? It’s called a ‘Bandera garrotte’ . I will be strangling you with it until you start talking .”
Q; I tried to find a definition of “Banderist garrotte”. What it is exactly?
R: It’s an IMF sponsored, French c***-ring that you need balls for to snug around your carrot.
Is it possible to install the ability to remain signed in and save us the extra steps of filling out and double checking everything else [or forgetting it, like I did in this case]?
It’s something to look at; meanwhile if you let your browser remember, it will bring it back by entering the first character.
The “secret police” whatever name they went by, wherever they exist, would traditionally beat up and torture people. It is part of their function — keep people terrorised to control them. So certain levels of ill-treatment would have already been in place.
Then the goon squads were specially trained — by Polish and US mercenary specialists. Trained for urban warfare, urban “population control” and “policing”, Then some of them don’t seem to have needed a lot of encouragement to turn into torturers, by the simple method of attracting people already that way inclined, then handing them total impunity. Add a good dose of legalised hatred for vatniki, Moskals, Colorados…. call separatists terrorists to make sure. Throw in a few “subhumans” and what do you expect?
This is the regime that killed 100 on Maidan just to gain a political advantage. That killed 20+ at Korsun to teach Crimeans a lesson, dragged off buses and beaten to death. . That killed 46+ at Odessa to “stop separatism”, burned, shot, stabbed, clubbed to death if they escaped the fire, 60 still missing.
In a paranoid system. where suspect = guilty, punishment may as well start right away.
In an ideal system there is no such thing as a political crime, ie being dissident is permitted. There are police to do the obvious work, with some of them being detectives for the harder cases, there is innocent until proven guilty, 48 hours holding without charge, independent Ombudsman or other authority to take complaints of ill treatment, and no convictions based on admission of guilt only. Working video surveillance in police vehicles, offices and cells help to keep them on the straight and narrow.
Kat, understanding all of what you explained, but I hope you also understand how much this jacks my jaw knowing how complicit US Congress is for aiding, abetting, and giving tacit approval for all this IN OUR NAMES! I’m so angry every time I read about this demonic insanity I could chew nails and spit tacks and when I called to vent about this the yo-yo who answered the phone in the congress-critter’s office sounded like I had disturbed his nap! His response: crickets. Did NOT know what to say. I offered to send him the hard-copy of parts one and two of the FSD publication for the representative to read and he declined it, as if his boss who supports sending more “lethal” weapons to Ukraine is already fully up to speed with what’s going on. I wanted to jerk a knot in his neck, but that wouldn’t make him care. Some how, we’ve got to find a way to get through to them; venting steam here probably doesn’t do much good.
“Кто не скачет тот москаль” МИНСК 25.03.2015
[“Who does not jump is Muscovite” MINSK 25/03/2015]
I expected this. I have a Belarussian friend, she is a student in Copenhagen, Denmark. She doesn’t want to speak with me anymore because I support Putin. She says “they are under Russian yoke”.
I think Russia doesn’t do enough to support pro-Russian populations of Europe. Serbia loves Russia and Putin, but also Bulgaria, Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro.
Russia has to finance groups in these countries to start a mayor movement that will show that Russia has friends in Europe, especially in the Balkans. I don’t understand why is Russia so passive in this…
I think we all feel the same way. Russia has been working at home and abroad rather strenuously these past years and they do have a policy of non interference but that shouldn’t stop cultural and educational exchanges, trade fairs etc. And also you don’t want to stir up anti Russian sentiment in those countries either-it is a delicate balance. That is for sure and these things always have to be worked out at the political level. It would take the indigenous Russian population to try to expand these types of programs as well and considering some of the discrimination going on in former bloc countries many people prefer to keep their heads down.
I think this is one of the gravest mistakes of modern Russian foreign policy is not promoting soft power throughout the Russian world.
In the span of a single post-Soviet generation, we see entire regions of Ukraine showing utter revulsion for “Moskals”, when in the 90s the average person in Kiev or Chernigov would’ve seen Russians with a great deal of fraternity. Will Ukraine turn to Russia once things start getting worse? All the problems, whether it is austerity, lack of jobs and the civil war (started by the idiotic Ukrainian “government”) will be perpetually blamed on Russia.
Why have the west in the guise of NGOs, churches and aid allowed Russia’s peripheral states to turn against her, while Russia has not made any effort to counteract this. It’s too late to talk of brotherhood when much of Ukraine wants little to do with Russia. How long before we see Belarus and Kazakhstan follow the tide?
Money, my dear friends…
Russia has not got so much money for the projects like EU-NATO countries.
Answering a question normally suggests that the question posed is valid – the when did you last beat your wife pathway.
Answering with a response of uni-causality is affording further integration into the ideological immersion.
True money is a problem.But in some states Russia already has a huge natural advantage (history,culture,language,religion,ethnic ties) .Large amounts of money isn’t called for.It’s the will to do those things that has been lacking.That needs to change,and quickly.
On one hand it is a mistake not to “help” form Russian societies among ethnic Russians living abroad.But that must be done only in the cultural,history,and language field.I would stay away from the political.That should flow naturally from awareness through those other fields.And Russia can’t be blamed for intervening in politics (well, they’ll be blamed anyways.But there would be nothing to base the blame on).
It is another matter though with local pro-Russian political and ethnic groups.Russia should back them to the hilt.In particular,Serbia,Greece,and Bulgaria,are prime examples.Over half the Serbian people like Russia (and that is without Russian encouragement),and in Greece and Bulgaria many people are historically pro-Russian as well (especially Bulgaria).
Russia should be massively supporting groups that are pro-Russian.And running,Serbo-Russian,Greek-Russian,Bulgar-Russian Friendship Societies.Emphasizing the joint religious,historical ties.And in Serbia and Bulgaria’s cases,the ethnic ties as well.There should be sponsored trips,patriotic events, concerts, schools, books,articles, student exchanges,etc,etc.
Those are the exact ways the West has infiltrated those countries to do evil.Russia should turn the tables on them to do good.Just expecting and relying, on the facts that,yes,you are connected historically,culturally,religiously,and ethnically,is not enough it’s the wrong idea. Russia just fools itself if it does that.It mostly did that in Ukraine,and look what came of that.It does that in Belarus,and yesterday neo-nazis staged an anti-Russian “pre-maidan” there.
There are many countries that should be closer to Russia than they are.But there shouldn’t even be a question about Serbia,Greece,and Bulgaria.Yet Russia’s inaction in those states and Ukraine and Belarus,has allowed the West to act like “worker bee’s” secretly plotting,bribing,building a pro-Western base in those countries.
It’s vital for Russia to take advantage of what is there for them.Not just ignore their strengths in those countries.Because as Ukraine clearly shows,ignoring your support weakens it.And it is hard to rebuild it latter.
Speak of the devil. Lugansk has arrested n unspecified number of Aidar members, apparently planning subversive attacks in the LPR. Aidar is the only battalion the pre-US NGO human rights organisations have found enough evidence on to actually name.
I would love to beat the living piss out of them with a garden hose
Vladimir Putin’s formative German years
Anglo-Zio propaganda, of course, but it does reveal one detail. The part which says “Moscow is silent” illustrates graphically how little value the arch-traitor Gorbachev actually placed on the lives of his own citizens – lest he offended his western patrons…
USA=United Sadists of America
The chutzpah and/or kishkas condundrum what with Yarosh being propositioned.
Perhaps a case of one for my baby and one more for the road, since apparently nature abhors a vacuum?
Not Kristol ones?
The vagaries of choice in some cafeterias?
Torture: What a disheartening post but then a friend sent me this:
“Take comfort in knowing that our world and our universe are always under the control of a higher, divine power. Though it may sometimes appear to the contrary, we are not ultimately subject to the whims of political dictators or military megalomaniacs or folly’s fools. Even their vast armies, military might and nuclear weapons are no match for the power of God, nature, and universal forces”
it seems to be a coincidence that a proxy war in the Ukraine is about to heat up again after being on a low simmer and at the same time that another proxy war begins to rage in the mid East ( Yemen). Perhaps on one level it is so, but on another it is not so. Either way or both ways it looks as if during Holy Week ( whenever you celebrate it) folly’s fools will try unsuccessfully to make it most unholy .
It’s pure laziness to call something a “proxy war.” “Proxy wars” are just wars fought by people who have not yet been demonized, so it saves a major PR campaign if you just tie them to someone who already has been demonized.
After the drunk Ukrainian soldiers went joy-riding through the Konstantinovka town square in a mini-tank, running over a little girl, her baby brother and her aunt, Kiev announced that the “organizers” of the riot had been identified. “Organizers?”
Is it really the case that people who are not citizens of a major international player are incapable of outrage? Or have no instincts of self-preservation? Or can’t see the writing on the wall they see torchlight parades under the wolfsangel?
There’s a video on YouTube of interviews with militia members asking about their motivation for joining. Several said Odessa. One said the demonstrations in Kiev. The interviewer waited for him to elaborate. He squinted up at her. “What? Swastikas on the Maidan, that’s not enough?”
The war for liberation in Angola was called a proxy war. I enjoyed, during an online squabble about this, to be able to fetch from the National Security Archives the minutes of the meeting of the Praesidium where the government of the USSR was first informed that Cuba had been fighting in Angola for six months.
re–proxy war and quibble about terminology? You will know when the Ukraine war becomes an open war between Russia and the USA-NATO. it will be qualitatively different. ( no less horrible, yes, to those suffering).. Also, when the Yemen war turns into a war between Iran and Israel/USA you will know the difference between proxy and direct war in no uncertain terms. The difference between a simmer and a full boil.
If no open war between Russia/Iran and FUKUS/Apartheid State develops, will you come back and say, “I was wrong”?
it seems necessary to differentiate between those who start and bear responsibility for a war and those who participate in it, who, of course, do so for personal reason, whether rational or irrational, right or wrong. it may be a proxy war for the leaders and something quite different for the participants (as in Ukraine).
SOP for the Outlaw Empire–break ALL the rules/laws since no entity will bother to prosecute. Death squads, torture, terrorism, all the standard modus of the CIA and its hirelings and used globally for decades. Time EVERY CIA officer/worker was listed by Interpol as an agent of terrorism. Until the world’s peoples begin to arrest the too numerous outlaws of the Outlaw Empire, it will continue to practice its evil behavior.
Back in then day, Donald rumsfield was “new Europe” this and “New Europe” that and nobody knew what exactly he was talking about. Well, I guess torture is the “New Europe.”
“nobody knew what exactly he was talking about.”
Perhaps an exageration on your part.
Perhaps if you lay aside attraction to the newest and for example look again at the Solzhenitsyn and Sakharov blog, although you won’t find exactly or completely, you may find catalysts to test your assertion.
I had to hear of the plan by certain people of the US to conquer the world– I had to hear of it 3 times before I knew enough to know it was true.
The first time I rejected it because I didn’t believe that there could be conscious evil!
I copied the original article from Oriental Review and made a brief cover letter:
Mr. Denny Heck, is this what you wanted when you voted in favor of HR 162.
I hand carried it to his field office in Lacey WA
Let’s see if he ‘favors’ me with an answer!
He is supposedly a ‘Democrat’ and a liberal…..
Good for you !!
For the current US ruling elites, it is not enough to manage, in a wise and secure way, the ups and downs of their standing in the world. Instead, they follow in the footsteps of Alcibiades: they crave to risk it all and, taking bets that will surely live in infamy, take down their nation.
Alcibiades, a prominent member of the Athenian elite during the Peloponnesian War, was the foremost example of a brilliant but deranged leader. His reasoning skills were thoroughly enslaved by his lowly passions and desires. Despite such fatal flaw, the great spoiled kid of Greek antiquity has been an idol to Robert Kagan, which some of you may recognize as the prominent co-founder of the “Project for a New American Century” and, also, as the husband of a brilliant but somewhat foul-mouthed diplomat, named Victoria Nuland.
Unfortunately — for the future fame, and glory, of the United States — the Judge of Natural Selection has these gurus, plus the tarred underneath souls of their deranged idols, determining the foreign policy of Washington DC. The American citizens need to wake-up. It seems to me that there will be no foreign leader in a hurry to free America from bratty baby boomers and deranged gurus.
Unhappily, I can’t see anyone on the political horizon here who actually understands, let alone has a solution for, the dilemma we are in in the USA. Either we are the ‘HEGEMON, whoop whoop’ or we are one of many nations on this poor planet.
I would give the same message I give when people want Russian troops to invade Ukraine.Russia thinks Ukrainians should “take out their own trash”.Though Russians have helped with volunteers and giving aid.Defeating the junta should,if at all possible,be a Ukrainian internal fight.Its the same in the US.If the people want to change the regime they will.If they don’t they won’t.If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard an American boast about the “2nd Amendment” and our “gun rights” I’d be richer than Bill Gates by now.
Joaopft, I think if revolutionary change is to come it has to be from outside this thoroughly controlled system– from the military. But the people first have to show that they wd support such a thing, with demonstrations.
Alcibiades had been a student of Socrates, and the French amateur philosopher, Bernard Suzanne. theorized that Plato wrote his entire opus of Dialogues structured upon the motif of Alcibiades’ failure to combine heroism with moral principles. I followed Suzanne’s discourses online, and whilst I couldn’t completely follow the structure he advocates, his thesis is more and more compelling as we sadly seem determined to repeat the warnings his writings represent.
Just to add, Bernard Suzanne has an informative website on the subject, and here is a quote from one of his essays:
” I want to further suggest that Plato was not that idealist looking in a “world of forms” high above to escape from this one, but one who had one main purpose in life, to form the best politicians there might be, and to help people understand what it means to put their logos (reason) to task to bring kosmos (order) in the city of men, because that’s what it means to be men, that is “logical” (rational) political animals.”
Humbly (for I have not nearly the expertise on the matter) I agree.
This is US arrogance in its naked form. No bars hold, all out imperial ambition world wide.
A must watch as George Friedman, STRATFOR CEO, exposes US geopolitical strategy to the Chicago Council.
Wow, thanks for that link.
Here is an alternate link I just found:
That video deserves a thread of it’s own. Great find. So a Hungarian born Jew lectures about US imperial ambition and strategy, lies about about Americas relationship with Europe, amongst other things, and patronizingly describes US strategy in a way that suggests the bastard child of Zion is sometimes too willful and hasn’t quite learnt to be as cunning and devious as it’s mentors.
Here is another interview of George F.
(text not video)
•”Americans know that this is nonsense. The first example of the changing of borders by force was Yugoslavia. And Kosovo was only the culmination of this process.”
•”For all of the last 100 years Americans have pursued a very consistent foreign policy. Its main goal: to not allow any state to amass too much power in Europe.”
•”Today the US is seeking to block the emergence of a whole range of potential regional hegemons: Serbia, Iran, Iraq.”
•”Russia calls the events that took place at the beginning of this year a coup d’etat organized by the United States. And it truly was the most blatant coup in history.”
•”About three years ago, in one of my books, I predicted that as soon as Russia starts to increase its power and demonstrate it, a crisis would occur in Ukraine.”
My personal belief/feelings on torture:
Torture is the most unGodly act a human can perpetrate.
Murder is lower in the scale of sin compared to torture.
Makes my soul vomit.
Carmel by the Sea
Frontline Ukraine: Crisis in the Borderlands by Professor Richard Sakwa.
Has anyone read this book and is it worth buying.
Here are reviews of that book you mention:
Carmel by the Sea
This is the first review i read.
At last, a balanced assessment of the Ukrainian conflict – the problems go far beyond Vladimir Putin
Yes it is a useful catalyst.
If you seek widen the perspective Christian Appy’s “American Reckoning” is probably more pertininent for those following the knowledge is a process of questions, although some with limited perspective may perceive that the Sakwa is more relevant.
My god, this is too painful to read.
Does or doesn’t Russia (or any other country, really) have a R2P (hate these gimmicky acronyms but I didn’t make it up) all of these people?
What is involved in invoking R2P?
Can Russia’s envoy to the UN take these photos and especially accounts to the General ASsembly a la Colin Powell and challenge Power (who I think coined the R2P formula) directly on the need to protect these human beings from torture and prevent further torture?
Something is not right with the world when one has the strength and means to protect but chooses not to do so. This was Yanokovich’s mistake in Maiden. To sacrifice the lives of the police force was wrong just as allowing the defenseless to be sacrificed for fear of the western media gives the media hyper power. China sends peace keepers to protect their people and interests. They also didn’t let their police force go defenseless during the student protests while Kiev was allowed to descend into mayhem because the police were not allowed to use their own weapons to protect the population so had to sacrifice themselves. Unheard of.
cheryblossoms, Yanukovych had the right and the duty to maintain order in his country cuz he was head of state. He allowed himself to be flummoxed by the US threat of sanctions against the oligarchs.
Putin doesn’t have the legal right under R2P to invade a neighboring country. The R2P “doctrine” was invented by the US to destroy Libya. They attemopted to use it again to destroy Syria, but were neutralized by Russia. R2P is not a legal doctrine; it is far too broad, can be rationalized to suit any occasion.
If you know that the unknown man that raped your sister lives in a certain block does that give you the right to invade that block, beat up any policemen that you feel aren’t exercising due diligence, etc?
Sometimes a great deal more is involved than righting a particular wrong, like the results of your intrvention.
Why aren’t you angry instead w the Ukrainian authorities who have the ability to stop this & don’t? Or the US, who continue to enable it? Or the EU who will not even verbally condemn it? Or US journalists whose lies perpetuate the situation?
Why focus your anger on the one party who is totally innocent of causing this, Russia?
The original “anonymous” comment re R2P was mine. My name got lost in the technical comment glitch. I am not “focusing my anger” on Russia. Where does that idea come from?
Sorry to be ignorant about R2P, but it seems to me that what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
If the US invokes R2P and brings this notion into the world for its own purposes (whcih I do understand), does that mean that it cannot be invoked by anyone else? BTW, I do not see that I mentioned a Russian invasion of Ukraine. A lot of conclusions are being jumped to.
Actually, I stand by the central point of my original post:
The concept of R2P was brought forth by the USA/Samantha Power. Why cannot anyone, any country’s envoy to the UN, bring this evidence before that body, invoke R2P, and perhaps introduce a motion of some kind whereby UKRAINE is sanctioned for torturing some of its citizens. If any international body has a right to protect, it is the UN. The excuse that these are “rebels” or “separatists” should be decisively shot down. If they are “rebels,” then they are Ukrainian citizens. If they are “separatists,” then they should be covered by some international agreements. The UN should be challenged—by Russian, by China, by a coalition of member states—to take action to affirm that it does not condone or excuse torture under any circumstances or semantic jugging.
That is my take.
yatsenyuk (yats for the friends) said that russians are sub-humans and nobody reacted. nuclear yulia would like to nuke them. neonazis are getting royal treatment when they visit their sponsors.
do you think that addressing the issue to the UN would acomplish anything?
It’s confusing when one posts a comment and the comment stays in the comment box forever and does not appear to be posted.
Plus, the comment box is occupied for hours.
Refreshing does not clear the box.
Now let’s see how long this comment roosts here.
Hi Katherine, I think the site is still under construction in a way….he needs perhaps more moderators.
I guess my earlier, “real,” comment just didn’t get posted.
If a comment just sits there, visible, it has not been sent. If submitting a second time doesn’t clear it, COPY your comment. Close the page, open the same article again from the main page, and then paste your comment into it, and submit. This gets you off the faulty page. .
http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/02/12/nuc%20report.pdf Eextraordinary declassification of Israel’s nuclear program.
I found it on NiqNaq, says US declassified it Feb 12, maybe payback for insisting Netanyahu addressing Congress. Niqnaq story here. https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/
Niqnaq is another sorcha fall critter.
NiqNaq is NOT a Sorcha Faal type site. Sorcha Faal writes bombastic fiction. Niqnaq presents factual material. At any rate, 2 minutes research wd show you that this story is confirmed.
Actually, what he posts on his site and around the web, in his own words, I’ve found to be full of bs. He does often find useful material, but then often spoils it by distorting it with his interpretation of it. I’m not sure if he is delusional or simply a professional agent provocateur. He once spent a ludicrous amount of effort trying to convince people here that I was a far right comment writer at MoA, for example.
who runs NiqNaq ? Sounds Arabic.
RB—Rowan Berkeley. Irish Marxist. Works harder than anyone, but works in a straightjacket of ideology. It’s like looking at the world through slits in dark glasses. Only slight amount of light and thus, a very slim view of everything.
But, he does dig out tons of information, then runs it through his insistent overwrite of ideology and POV integrated into the material.
Or perhaps it was pay back for Israel spying on the US during nuclear negotiations with Iran. AND US Republicans then were recipients of spy material.
“It’s one thing for the U.S. and Israel to spy on each other. It is another thing for Israel to steal secrets and play them back to U.S. legislators to undermine U.S. diplomacy,” an unnamed “senior U.S. official” told the Journal. ”
The same happens where ever the ZPC/NWO coup governments and create conflicts to maintain their world position of dominance. It is probably the internet that has held them back from their earlier full death squad sort of terror in the Ukraine. The sods know that they cant hide their war crimes the way they could before the web provided access to almost real time information access. Bad as these zionazi/nazi war crimes are in the Ukraine, they would be exponentially worse had the planet been still stuck in the pre-WWW times of the 1990’s and earlier.
The Pride of Syria: Female Warriors Defending Damascus
A female Syrian soldier from the Republican Guard commando battalion drives a tank during clashes with rebels in the restive Jobar area, in eastern Damascus. March 25, 2015.
The Syrian female Republican Guard commando battalion was created about a year ago. The unit consists of 800 female soldiers, nicknamed the ‘Lionesses of Defense’ who are deployed in the suburbs of the Syrian capital to defend the city against insurgents.
It’s interesting that the zionazi media and political quislings are all full of promotion of “gender equality” (a laudable goal once the zionazi divisive rubbish is stripped from it), yet their “cannon fodder” (al qaida, for example) practice the exact opposite of it, and their enemies practice real gender equality.
Meanwhile, in the ZPC/NWO “flagship colony’s” military (USA – Israel isn’t a colony), instead of the “gender equality” the “exceptionals” and the “chosens” continue propagandise, rape and child molestation continues to be a serious problem.
And in other news, the monarchy that does not allow women to drive is fighting for (.. oops cannot have democracy in this one) the “legitimate” government of Yemen.
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive”.
The exceptional nation have been droning Al Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula as they were the really really bad guys. Or so the exceptional nation told us.
The main opposition to the Houthis/Zaidiyya in Yemen was Al Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula which were backed by that fine democracy that does not allow women to drive – Saudi Arabia.
USA = The Bad Guy
I’m not Russian but I’m not a brain dead american sheep
Its hard to know if the US elite are insane or not
Why should this matter?
Insane people do insane things. If they are insane Nuclear war could easily happen.
Nixon and others used the notion of insanity as a “bullying” tactic.
However many with relevant agency are experienced in the ways of rat hunting and the chastisement of bullies of greater facility than say Sadaam Hussein or the supposed leader of the threat in the Dominican Republic is smaller metrics suffice.
Or to paraphrase a contribution from another blog some are not dependent upon, subject to, or controlled by chutzpah.
“Nuclear war could easily happen.”
What is the metric of “easily”.
There were many uses of the MAD doctrine that possibly you cannot imagine, and others would likely have no intention of affording you “enlightenment”.
You are possibly unaware of the misrepresentations contained in the phrase “The United States of America” and myriad opportunities afforded to some by that.
Complex interactive systems do not contain sole agencies – although Dubya as one example sometimes had the illusion that it was so – at least in public discourse.
Or if you prefer some John Donne – “no man is an island…..”
I’ll leave you to finish it if you care.
You people are so naive. Would it be if all the opponents have to worry about from each other is being beaten and fake shot at, electro shocked or any number of things one can recover from fully. I would sooner be beaten with metal rods than soft killed by people pretending to have no problem with you, in a luxury hotel suite with microwave beaming device behind the wall.
No. The real evil are the DEW, devices otherwise known as the People Cookers. Everyone knows that telecom companies supposedly have to watch out that their microwave beams do not pass through buildings and people or they will get sick and contract cancer, etc. In actuality, it is too hard to prove when this happens as nobody really sells detectors of microwave beams (does anyone here know how to build such a detector?)
What both the Russians and Americans do to “Soft Kill” those they do not want to be seen as openly hard killing, is direct microwave beams at their homes and offices. The American Embassy in Moscow was once bathed in microwaves this way and a lot of diplomats got cancer. It seems to be US policy to give cancer to any world leader who does not obey them. I fear there is a horrifying hidden war happening this way. Saker: do you have the equipment to make sure they are not bathing your home with a microwave beam?
I think we need to see articles on this more including instructions on how to build detectors, possibly with spectrum analyzers that now sell as dongles for computers. What we need is a smartphone app for this. Anyone have ideas? This is so evil that the above article actually cheered me up! If only prisoners in this war were only beaten and tortured! I fear worse might be done to them, where the cancer would only show up a year or three from now. Also, I am concerned that NATO Gladio is prepared to let the Zap nuke reactor blow if the rebels advance more.
This evil may be why Russia and China are pursuing the dollar collapse strategy at breakneck speed. We need to quickly get back to a world where the US and Russia are allies.
People Cookers, Since you are interested in this issue I assume you also know about the issue of the affect of wi-fi on the blood & brain. I don’t have the links handy, but I think you wd want to know about 2 stories:
1. On globalresearch.ca a month ago(they have a search box) was a story about blood tests before & after cellphone use or even just carrying it. Showed that the blood cells instead of being spread out flat become rolled up like coins in a coin wrapper– and this is systemic. Hate to think what it wd do to developing fetus.
2. On Memoryholeblog right now there’s an article about how they are going to electrify the entire globe w wifi. (3 or 4 big corps have this project in the planning stages)
We’re already suffering from decreased IQ; we don’t need more insults to health.
People cookers, Here’s one of the links & it deals w micorwaves not wifi. The other link (on globalresearch.ca) is temporarily blocked.
read Judy Woods book “Where Did the Towers Go” brilliant phd engineer in structural breakdown.
the people in the twin towers were having microwaves shot at them…they were taking off their clothes. Cell phone communication was “Its so hot” and towels wrapped around heads didn’t help.
Its the best book on 9/11 out there.
The director of the organization that published this report presented it to the UN Human Rights Council and said they also were going to submit it to the OSCE and international human rights groups. I hope it will convince them to open an investigation, although the way these things usually go, a few lowly grunts take the fall while those at the top go unpunished.
That said, I think we need to be cautious with reports that are based entirely on interviews, with no supporting documentation. How was the credibility of the interviewees determined? Where and when were the interviews conducted, under what circumstances? And who’s behind this organization? It looks like they have close ties to the Kremlin. If an NGO with State Department connections published something like this, we would want corroboration (well, some would just dismiss it as propaganda). The full report is on their Web site, both in Russian and English, with info about who they are, bio of the director, etc.
As for H.Res. 162, resolutions by a single chamber are nothing but an “opinion.” There’s a companion resolution in the Senate, but so far they have not been introduced as a joint resolution, which would go to the president to sign into law. Both versions complain that even though President Obama signed Public Law 113-272 authorizing lethal weapons to Ukraine and a budget of $100 million, he hasn’t done so. Note the language “authorize.” The law says he can do it if he wants to. The only requirement was that he had to report back to Congress with a list of the equipment he was going to send, which he did. It included Humvees and drones. So let’s get this straight: Congress tells him he can do it if he wants to, he doesn’t, they disapprove in writing, and the media dutifully report the “news” that some politicians made a political statement. It’s a scam, folks! It’s all for show (and not just for us; sometimes it’s calculated to affect financial markets).
In the meantime, a lot of politicking is going on in Kyiv, with explicit U.S. approval for Poroshenko to fire Kolomoisky. It looks like something has shifted. It wasn’t even a month ago that the buzz was all about Porko’s imminent demise, allegedly at the hands of the warmongers who were out of patience with his desire for compromise and lack of spine. Others have commented, and I agree, that it feels like we’re being played big-time, sucked into the drama while the one percent negotiate how they’re going to slice up the pie among themselves.
Some of the photos have been on social media. OK they could be faked too, I guess. But there’s been video of badly bruised guys, barely able to stand up, being helped off prisoner exchange buses, with simultaneous video from several news organisations.
It’s a bit much to expect anyone getting 100+ extras to set up a fake prisoner exchange just to show 2 or 3 guys with a bad limp or black eyes.
The people in this report were interviewed by people with experience in such interviews, and probable showed any damage they still have visible on them. There would also be evidence from others about their absence, the circumstances of their original removal etc.
There are also photos of dead bodies found with wounds indicating similar treatment. And just look, if you dare, at the photos of the burned victims in Odessa, to believe there are people in Ukraine quite capable of these things and worse.
Perhaps trying to remember that minding your P’s and Q’s is about details and nuance will help?
No longer written for the drawer?
contains swearing – but i’m pretty sure most of us (well, the Brits at least) will enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
“I’m Not Stupid” Monsanto Lobbyist Refuses To Drink Weedkiller After Proclaiming ‘It Won’t Hurt You’
“Do as I say, not as I do,” appears to be the message from a controversial lobbyist who claimed that the chemical in Monsanto’s Roundup weed killer was safe for humans refused to drink his own words when a French television journalist offered him a glass… “I’m not stupid,” he proclaims… you be the judge…
In a preview of an upcoming documentary on French TV, Dr. Patrick Moore tells a Canal+ interviewer that glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup herbicide, was not increasing the rate of cancer in Argentina.
Read more here:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-27/im-not-stupid-monsanto-lobbyist-refuses-drink-weedkiller-after-proclaiming-it-wont-h
There are many better arguments about the dangers of glyphosate than this one. I wouldn’t willingly drink a glass laced with manure either, but I know what it does for my plants used appropriately. On the face of it, this example would lead practical persons to conclude the arguments against the use of this chemical are shallow, and that’s a pity.
The MP of the DPR Voznik was killed in Donetsk
on: March 28, 2015
The MP of the People’s Council was killed in the night 26 March; he was also the commander of the battalion Mirazh (Illusion) Roman Voznik. The head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Alexandr Kofman wrote on his page in Facebook about the murder.
He wrote that his car was shot in the center of the city, at the junction of Vatutina Avenue and Chelyuskintsev Street, at about 23 o’clock. The commander and his security man were killed. There were his wife and his son in the car, they were not wounded.
I knew they’d start w the witnesses next. Now the ex-girlfriend says the co-pilot told her he was going to do something so they’d remember him. And he woke screaming in nightmares, “We’re going down!” Ohh, puhlease. Who writes this stuff.
I don’t know the true story. But it for sure is not this typical, overly prompt thoroughly tied-up-neatly overdone intell package.
Germany is thoroughly resisting the Ukraine fiction; it’s probably pressure to change her tune.
Unnamed unphotographed girlfriend. My impression is there would rather be a boyfriend involved which father would disapprove of.
Anyway. The way they started screaming about this theory so soon.
And the way the “leak” first went to NEW YORK TIMES not to some actually involved French of German site.. The same NYT which the day before had said the data recorder had been found but the memory was missing. (Now officially still not found yet). They are writing the script for everyone else to follow.
Where are pix of him with the girl? pix of him at school? with his flying school friends? what did he do for ~2 years between school and starting the flying school? they are saying as little as possible about him, to make it easier to sell thee “nutter” story with no contradictions.
A 60 second section of the voice recording was leaked, too. It was cut and pasted (listen to how the bells get cut short) and even so didn’t seem to be what they were describing. In case you want it
It doesn’t matter what happens: the media and ministries of propaganda will start squawking what however the story was designed, with truth buried. This is now standard operating procedure, has been for decades and ever worse. Orwell was not making up that stuff he wrote.
Another article from Chomsky about this:
Noam Chomsky on Institutional Stupidity
He also talks about the likelihood of nuclear holocaust by accident and how often we have been close in the past, since Reagan.
I know there are those who say Chomsky is a gatekeeper and all, but his blind spots are pretty easy to spot and compensate for (as some other writers are), and he is very knowledgeable and generally quite truthful, so he is an excellent source for the rest of the material he covers.
oh no, now she broke up with him just yesterday and won’t give her second name. Plus he now also had “vision problems”. That won’t stop him flying, unless it’s detached retina.
Maybe they should find the data recorder and start looking at what REALLY happened.
In past investigations it’s usually taken them several WEEKS to correctly identify each sound on the tape. Especially the little ones, like “seat pushed back” or “altitude button turned”. And why was it leaked? to see what they can get away with?
Kat Kan, they are writing a novel– no, a soap for TV. They know it was suicide cuz on the recording they can hear that his breathing is “normal and calm.” i.e., he was not unconscious. They can tell all of that over the sound of the engine and the pilot attacking the door w an axe.
Earliest reports are that at the time of the crash there was a jet accompanying the airliner. It was scrambled to find out what was wrong in the cockpit. A 10 minute descent, surely 2 minutes of which to determine something’s wrong. Yet there was time to contact an airbase & for the jet to fly there?
There are reports that many planes are equipped w anti-hijacking thru ground control– ie., they can be taken over & flown by wire by ground authorities. If it was so equipped, why didn’t they use this emergency measure?
Quite a number of other German Wing aircrews refused to fly the next day. Sure wd like to know what they know.
This was an older plane but it was a fly by wire type. The plane should/may have sent an alarm to ground crews of the airline. It could have been taken over by ground crews. Strange that it wasn’t.
There is zero evidence that there is such a thing as an external way to control a jetliner. it is not a model toy or military drone (both of which, incidentally, have a horrible record for constantly crashing, and have no live pilots on board to counteract the remote signals). .
The Germanwings crews who chose not to fly the next day were feeling psychologically unfit to fly. People they knew had just died in a plane crash. Aircrew also normally take time off when someone in their family dies, or some other traumatic event happens — they need to be able to concentrate on their work in order to be safe.
There was no rejection of flying by other airline crews using the same type of aircraft.
Witnesses on the mountain saw Air Force planes AFTER the crash, NOT escorting or alongside the airliner. This makes sense; 8 minutes is not enough time for them to be contacted and get up there unless there are already planes in the sky, which in peacetime normally would not be. But the Air Force would be asked to go and check on a plane not responding — this happens in every country usually (but for some reason they didn’t get to do it for MH370). .
KAT KAN, Of course there is fly-by-wire technology. It’s in commercial use. In fact one of this same make of plane was being flown by wire when it crashed into a treetop a few years ago. This is not controversial. It’s known.
The pilot who was allegedly trying to break down the door should have been using the satellite phone to ask ground control to take over the plane. All planes must be equipped w satellite phones now, both inside and outside the cockpit area.
Where do you get REMOTE control out of “fly by wire”?? wires have to be connected, both ends, to transmit anything.
On mechanical planes, controls worked by hydraulics. The control (yoke, pedal, flap levers etc) would move cables which moves solenoids which activated hydraulic arms to move the necessary component. In Fly By Wire, the controls send a signal to a computer, which sends a signal ON WIRES to the component and activates an electric (or still hydraulic) motor to move the part.
This places a computer between the pilot and the control surfaces. That means the computer can also do a lot of controlling itself, in response to various sensors combined with a good software program. This is the basis of the auto-pilot and auto-throttle systems which, for example, allow capture of glide slope signalling for accurate landings.
Remote control is NOT POSSIBLE, partly because the remote person’s computer would not know what state the plane is in — only a very limited amount of data is transmitted in flight, and that is mostly ENGINE function data, not air speed, flap settings, angle of attack and so on. (It was these engine signals they used for trying to find MH370 — their purpose is so the engine maker can diagnose problems with the engines before they lead to in-flight failure).
Then the computers have no way of getting information IN except from the sensors on board the plane (including pilot controls) — they have no radio contact of their own. Drones that can be radio controlled are essentially just toys, they don’t carry passengers and they crash all the time. Airliners can only be flown by trained people sitting at the controls.
“The Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot is a set of sub-routines aimed at defeating attempts at aircraft hijacking by removing electrical power from an aircraft’s flight deck, and irrevocably passing pilot authority to the autopilot and navigational computer for an automated landing at a safe airfield that can deal effectively with the incident.”
It nowhere says it is actual installed, or even that it has actually ever been built. It is a patent only. The story confusingly then proceeds to give a very partial history of aircraft automation, deliberately trying to make out that it is an installed reality.
Of course even if it were, it is supposedly an AUTO pilot that flies itself, NOT something with external control possible.
“… and the pilot attacking the door with an axe.” Why do I have a picture of Jack Nicholson in “The Shining” after reading that…
Kat Kan & Jo6pak, There is film of a live Fox news commentary. At the very end, it refers to earlier-still coverage which says THERE WAS A DISTRESS CALL AT 10:47AM & the plane vanished from radar 33 minutes later.
UNLESS– Cd this be a hoax? You don’t see the reporters & expert who are talking. You only see the plane & they are a voiceover. Take a look and tell me what you think.
It seems you forgot the rapes and some form of trophiy gathering such as ears, breasts, scrotums etc.
In all the madness I find this article slightly comforting…