This is a very special day for me, because the topics I will be covering are all very dear to my heart and to my entire family. Following the Bolshevik revolution my family and another 1.5 million Russians fled their beloved motherland at the end of the civil war. All our so-called European “allies” immediately betrayed us (what else is new?), organized an intervention and backed the russophobic Bolshevik regime (yes, helping both side in turn, like the Empire today in, say, the Kurdish areas of Iraq and Syria). All except one: the Serbs which, at the time, were triumphant (WWI) but also had to rebuild a war ravaged Serbia, with most of its infrastructure destroyed, and coping with the death of nearly 30% of its entire population.
They welcomed us with open arms and generous hearts, they recognized all the former Russian officials and officers in their pre-1917 capacity, and they gave refuge to the bishops, priests and faithful of the Russian Orthodox Church in Exile whose birthplace became the city of Sremski Karlovci in Serbia.
My family lived in Belgrade and my mother was born in the Topčidersko Brdo neighborhood of Belgrade. All her life she spoke a perfect Serbian, like a native; as for my Godmother, she was a pure Serb (and she also spoke Russian to perfection). I want to mention that to explain that the ties between my family and the Serbian nation were both strong and deep.
I strongly believe that all Russians owe a great debt of gratitude to the Serbian people, even those who don’t know about this (more about that later). And not just for how they accepted our refugees, but for many other instances of Russian-Serbian friendship in history.
The contrast between the Serbs and our so-called “Orthodox” or, even more so, Slavic brothers could not be greater. We even have a special word for that: the Serbs we call “братья” (meaning “brothers”) whereas the rest of them many of us simply call “братушки” which is hard to translate but I suppose “one-way-brothers” or even “pretend brothers” is adequate. We all know how many times our “one-way-brothers” have betrayed us, even if they owe the existence of their countries to Russia (I personally an ancestor who died while liberating Bulgaria from the Ottoman yoke!). In fact, they are still at it nowadays (not every single individual, of course, but taken as a nation, this is true beyond any doubt – just look how they allow their national territories to be used by NATO to try to threaten Russia) . Next time they have a problem with their neighbors, they can ask NATO (good luck with that!) – because we sure ain’t coming again. Ever!
But today, I want to touch on a very special kind of Serb, the much vilified, slandered and otherwise hated Serbian Chetniks of the Yugoslav army and their leader, the Serbian hero Draza Mihailovich (Дража Михаиловић).
I had the rare fortune of meeting a few Serbian officers in my life, from those who fought against NATO during the AngloZionist aggression against Bosnia, Serbia and its Kosovo province to the old Chetnik officers and soldiers who created the most effective and by far the biggest resistance movement to Hitler prior to the invasion of the USSR. I also met quite a few Russian, pre-1917 imperial officers and their families (mostly in Argentina) and I vividly remember how these old soldiers spoke with a heartfelt admiration and gratitude about Mihailovich himself and his men. So close were the Russians and Serbians in exile that they often inter-married (like my uncle and my Godmother).
My purpose here is not to write a bio of Mihailovich, or even to introduce him. For that purpose I will post a truly exceptionally well made film which is now freely available on YouTube (for how long? Download and make copies, folks!) and which pretty much explains it all, in fascinating details.
No, what I want to do today is much more modest. To share with you the reasons for my belief that any future Serbia worthy of being called Serbia can only be and will be founded on the memory of Draza Mihailovich and on the centuries of honored Serbian heroes that he epitomized.
[Sidebar: I know that I have a lot of communist readers and friends, and I ask them for their patience and understanding. The truth is that those calling themselves Communists in 2019 are very different from the type of Communists which would be found in the Europe of 1900-1946. In some way this is very bad, since most modern so-called “communists” have never read Marx or Engels, never-mind Lenin or Hegel. But in other ways, this is very good, since modern communists do not consider patriotism as “bourgeois” or religion the “opium of the people”. Friends, a long time ago I wrote that the “Whites” and the “Reds” (using a Russian categories but which can, I think, be transposed to the Serbian reality) will never agree on the past, even if they could agree on the future. What comes next is about the past, so let’s simply agree to disagree and not let this difference in opinion affect us okay?]
The resemblances between the fate of the Russian nation and the Serbs are many, as are the differences. But one thing which we sure have in common: the communists who took power over us did all they could to deprive us from our historical memory. Worse, they slandered our nations, our traditions, our cultures and our faiths for two very basic reasons:
- They absolutely hated us, both Russians and Serbs
- They had to justify not only their reforms (forced social engineering, really), but the terror they unleashed
By this mechanism Czar Nicholas II became a weak imbecile, his wife a mistress of Rasputin and an agent of the Germans, pre-1917 Russia a “prison of the people” (btw – (prewar Yugoslavia in communist propaganda was also called a “prison of peoples”, with the Serbs as jailers), Russian Orthodoxy “retrograde” and “ritualistic”, the Russian people “chauvinists” and the Russian ruling classes (old nobility, Petrine aristocracy, merchants, industrialists, clergy, philosophers, intelligentsia, etc.) all became “class enemies” of the people (in 1922 the Bolsheviks even managed to expel Russia’s leading intellectuals in the infamous “Philosopher’s ship“! These were the lucky ones, by the way, the others died in the Soviet GuLAG or were simply shot ). Furthermore, the role of the US, Germany and the UK in financing the subversion of Russia was totally obfuscated.
In Serbia a very similar thing happened, only later. You will see in the movie itself to what degree the true story of Draza Mihailovich and the Chetniks was corrupted and perverted in the (new) official doxa of the AngloZionist Empire.
I ask you to please watch this movie before reading on.
Personally, I am deeply moved by this film, especially by the old Chetnik shown at the end.
I had the fortune of meeting the “tail end” of the world this old Chetnik soldier knew.
His tears are my tears.
In 2015, the high court of Serbia officially rehabilitated General Dragoljub “Draza” Mihailovic, repudiating the farcical trial staged by the communist regime in 1946. “The court established that the controversial ruling was made in an illegitimate trial for political and ideological reasons, and, under the law on rehabilitation, the decision cannot be appealed”. –inserbia.info.
While this was an important first step in repudiating the communist falsification of history, the quisling government and educational system of Serbia, continues to be guided by old communists and the foreign successors of Vatican/Vienna school, who’ve spent centuries appropriating Serbian achievements and rewriting several millennia of Serbian/Slavic history.
I find personalities like Czar Nicholas II or Draza Mihailovich extremely important because they are what I call “polarizers”, that is personalities who have been both despised and hated as well as revered and loved. Why is that important? Because if you pick the right “polarizing personality” you can very quickly establish how much your interlocutor knows and what his real values are. There are many more such personalities, beginning even with Christ our Lord Himself, of course (I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law; Luke 12: 49-53). Of course, this is not about dividing families or creating strife, but about showing “your true face” and how much you are willing to sacrifice for your values. By the way, in my usage “polarizing personality” is value neutral. Thus Hitler would be a very good example of an evil polarizing personality.
In fact, Czar Nicholas II and Draza Mihailovich have many things in common, but I want to mention two: they both refused to leave their people even though it meant sure death, and their murderers were so afraid of their MORAL (not legal or, even less so, military) authority that they not only massacred them (in the case of Czar Nicholas with his entire family, children included) and concealed the place where their bodies were destroyed and dumped. Personally, I even see a degree of resemblance between the two men, especially in their eyes: they are both filled with a special sad kindness, a kind of Christ-like meek resignation. They both perfectly knew that they would not only be murdered, but smeared, vilified by many clueless generations. I can only hope that they also knew that the historical truth would one day be restored!
Why is that so important? Because you cannot rebuild a civilization on fuzzy, lukewarm and otherwise uninspiring models. I would even argue that any action needs to be predicated on a solid spiritual/ideological basis to be meaningful (you just don’t do meaningful things just to do them, our most important actions are often just means towards a higher goal). This is, by the way, a great weakness of the current AngloZionist empire: while it does inspire plenty of derision and hate, it probably stopped truly inspiring anybody decades ago – yet another sure sign of decay.
Of course, I am acutely aware that there are many Russians who don’t think highly of Czar Nicholas II or even still despise him for being the superficial, weak and dumb moron the Soviet propaganda machine (and the liberal-democratic Masonic propaganda machine before that!) painted him to be, just as there are no doubt Serbs who either dislike/despise Draza because of the Titoist propaganda. In most cases this is just simple ignorance. Once the freedom to investigate the past is truly restored (like it is in Russia today), the inevitable always happens: those who were orphans of their own history and culture gradually rediscover them and then they operate a radical ideological change (who would have predicted in the 1980s or even 1990s that a Russian defense minister would convert to Orthodoxy and publicly make the sign of the cross before a military parade or that a Russian contingent in Khmeimim would have not one, but two churches built on that base?).
Think of Russia and Serbia as “Petri dishes” in which the bacteria of historical memory have just began to grow and, rather than looking at the current number of “bacteria with a restored historical memory”, look at the nature of these bacteria and the nutrient rich-soup in which they are located.
Our countries are the Petri dish. We are the bacteria.
I vividly remember how the AngloZionist propaganda machine described the Serbian people in general, and especially the Chetniks, as genocidal murders hellbent on “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” (Serbs, Croats and Bosnian-Muslims are from the same ethnicity; only their religions are different; “Bosniac” is a term popularized by the US State Department). Most of these lies have long been debunked by numerous authors, the truth is already out there but, just like with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, the Kennedy assassination,GLADIO or 9/11, the truth is out there, but very few care.
The truth is that the western civilization has decayed to a state which could be described as “truth free”. A simpler way to put it that for most people (alas, most people are still brainwashed) facts simply do not matter. The truly dull ones will only seek “ideological comfort” while most of the rest simply don’t care as long as their current consumption rates can be maintained or, better, increased. The rest, for them, is basically irrelevant.
Inside Yugoslavia a similar process of “induced amnesia” and “historical reprogramming” took place during the Tito years and even after. Even modern Serbian politicians, plenty of which are corrupt and dependent on US or EU “grants”, continue to parrot the Titoist propaganda. But deep inside (some of) the Serbian people the memory of Draza is just as alive as the memory of Czar Nicholas II is alive in the memory of (some of) Russian people. This historical memory has not been restored to our nations, but there is already enough of this memory currently coming out from it’s clandestinity to worry our “liberals” and “democrats” and to absolutely outrage the western media.
This being said, I don’t believe for one second that Russia or Serbia will ever become a monarchy again (in spite of being a monarchist myself). In fact, I hope this never happens because if it does, it will be a pseudo-monarchy run by some parliament and with a useless parasite à la Queen Elizabeth II totally under the control of Masonic loges. A real Orthodox monarchy can only exist in a truly Orthodox country and with a truly free Orthodox Church, not in a country where the vast majority of Orthodox Christians are truly Orthodox only in name, in a “cultural” sense, and who see Orthodoxy as a national rather than as a spiritual phenomenon. In fact, I believe that we are already well into the “End Times” in which the Church of Christ will shrink down to the “small flock” mentioned in the Gospels and Apocalypse. These are times in which an Orthodox monarchy cannot exist since the τὸ κατέχον (“the [one] who restrains”) has been “taken out of the way” (2 Thes 2:6-7) because Nicholas II was this “katehon” and now the “mystery of iniquity doth already work” (there is also the famous prophecy about Moscow the Third Rome, a status which that city lost in 1917, which concludes with the words “and there shall be no fourth“).
But, assuming we don’t all die in a nuclear war courtesy of the Neocons, neither can the future Russia or Serbia be founded on the values, policies and actions of figures like Lenin or Tito (if only because their countries – the USSR and Yugoslavia – don’t exist anymore; besides, Lenin hated Russia as much as Tito hated Serbia).
A couple of years ago I wrote an essay entitled “Kosovo will be liberated” in which I suggested the following thought experiment:
Imagine for a few minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?
I gave my answer about what I believe would happen externally, about how the Serbian nation will inevitably be reunited and Kosovo liberated. Today, I am trying to imagine what would happen inside Serbia, before Kosovo can be liberated.
Internally, the conditio sine qua non for a rebirth of Serbia is the restoration of the historical truth and that means first and foremost to restore the truth about the cowardly slaughter of well over 1,500,000 Serbs by Croatians, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Bulgarians and Hungarians (yes, this was a real, full-scale genocide; the original Papist-Croatian (*not* German Nazi!!) plan was to convert 1/3rd of Serbs, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd) by an informal but no less toxic combination of *real* Nazi-collaborators (Croats and Bosnian-Muslims), the genocidal policies of the Papacy in the so-called “Independent State of Croatia”, the actions of the Communist Partisans, the typical “grand game” policies and betrayals of the British (who used the Serbs as cannon fodder against elite SS divisions), the active support of the Soviet Union and the total indifference of the US and the self-centered nations of western Europe.
While one WWII genocide is exploited and propagandized, the Genocide of the Serbian people is hideously kept hidden. Their executioners, to this day, celebrated by the empire and aided in their continued attempts to erase the memory of their victims. Dr. Gideon Greiff, Israel’s foremost expert on Auschwitz, whose recently published book “Jasenovac, the Auschwitz of the Balkans”, details the killing of over 800,000 Serbs, in the Jasenovac death camp. According to Dr. Greiff, Jasenovac, one of many Vatican sanctioned death camps, in the Nazi puppet state of Croatia, there were “57 different ways of killing the victims”. “I am sure that there weren’t as many in Auschwitz. It’s a world record. There has not been something of the kind in the history of the humankind,” he said, adding that there should be no doubt about the number of the (overall) victims, and recalling that an investigation by a joint Croatian-Serbian commission showed that this number was 1.4 million (all quotes from a television interview with Dr. Greiff on Serbian Television). Finally, to learn of the true horrors faced by the Serbian nation in this monstrous Papist genocide attempt of the Serbian nation, make sure to check out this webpage:
It will give you all the details about what the author called “The most horrifying religious massacre of the 20th century“.
As for Dr Greiff’s book “Jasenovac – Auschwitz of the Balkans” is available on Amazon, but at a very steep price (I sure cannot afford and I wish it was available online somewhere).
This restoration of the truth will have to inevitably include Tito’s communists murder of tens of thousands Serbian intellectuals, Orthodox priests, Chetniks and their families, after the end of WWII.
Furthermore, all the countries, public entities and personalities which directed these crimes will have to be exposed. Not to stick them into a Nuremberg-like tribunal (not a bad idea, but it was poorly implemented; besides, for Russia and Serbia, most evil doers are not long dead anyway), but to stick their memory in a “historical tribunal” in which historians will be the defending and prosecuting lawyers and our people the jury (God, obviously, being the only true judge).
Simply put, I will use a metaphor of Alexander Solzhenitsyn here, the relationship of the Russian civilization to the Bolshevik state, and the relationship of the Serbian civilization with the Titoist state is the same one which can be found between a healthy body and a malignant tumor: yes, they definitely share a lot of common DNA (Russia, for example, has always been a collectivistic and “social” society), but they also have enough differences to make the latter a mortal threat to the former. Furthermore, just as with a malignant tumor, it is extremely difficult to fully eradicate just the tumor without affecting the healthy tissues. Solzhenitsyn added that in his opinion the Russian nation will need about two centuries to fully heal from the effects of Bolshevism.
So this is not about doing what the Communists did and trashing our past just from another point of view. There were great heroes and very good people who lived in our Communist past, and great feats were accomplished in numerous fields during these years. It is about restoring the historical truth, something which every honest person should support and even participate in. Otherwise our people will look like prisoners freed from a concentration camp but who continue to wear the prison clothes given to them by their (now former) tormentors.
Truth be told, since 2000 Russia has managed to accomplish a truly miraculous rebirth, especially in the light of the true war (even if this war is currently about 80% informational one, 15% economic and only 5% kinetic) of the AngloZionists against Russia. Serbia is in a much worse situation, in some ways almost as bad as the Russia of the 1990s. But I am confident that a “Serbian Putin” will appear, apparently from “nowhere”, and that the Serbian people will rally around him/her just like the Russians rallied around Putin.
Finally, when the time comes for the Serbian nation to rise up and liberate itself, I am confident that the recent examples of Russians fighting for Serbia in Bosnia and Serbs fighting for Russia in the Donbass will inspire not just volunteers, but whoever sits in the Kremlin.
To illustrate just how much the truth has been distorted, regarding the Serbs, whose honor and courage, have been documented, both by allies and enemies, throughout history, I strongly encourage you to read the last sermon of pastor Freidrich Griesendorf, published in the Eversburg (German) newspaper: “Last sermon of a German clergymen” (reposted and translated here)
I now leave you with the two videos mentioned in the main film.
First, the interview of US vets about their experience with the Chetniks:
and, finally, the Hollywood movie made about this war:
And, last but most definitely not least, there is now an extremely valuable website fully dedicated to the memory of Draza Mihailovich:
In conclusion, I want to address all those who have a very different view of Draza, the Serbs or anything else. What I presented here is my personal, absolutely sincere, point of view. But, of course, I may be wrong (I often am!).
I not only have no problem with fact-based and logically-constructed criticisms, I sincerely INVITE THEM! However, I have to warn you that any attempts to simply spew a load the garden variety hatred towards Draza, the Serbs or anything else will be intercepted and sent to where it belongs: the trash bin of our servers and of history! We have already heard it all, courtesy of the legacy AngloZionist media, we don’t need that repeated here.
ADDENDUM: since Draza, the Chetniks and the Serbs have now been described as monsters, I decided to add a number of quotes which not only show that in the past they were considered as heroes, but also show what some prominent historical figures had to say about them.
1. The Hero Whom You Gave to History Has Not His Like in Our Time
“Twenty years after the death of Draza Mihailovich he is undimmed in his glory as a defender of liberty against the Fascist terror, who defended it also against the Communist terror. He had no moment of weakness, nor of bitterness. I know no instance where he reproached those who were guilty of his betrayal.
Twenty years ago I knew he was innocent of all charges against him, and since then I have had many further proofs of his innocence. His abandonment was a crime, and like all crimes it brought no real profit to the criminals.
I loved your nation before the war, I have loved and honored it more and more as the years have gone by and I have seen that the hero whom you gave to history has not his like in our time.”
__ Dame Rebecca West ( to the Serbs July 8, 1966)
2. As I sit writing these lines in the early dawn before a motionless sea, Mihailovich is facing the firing squad. I am not concerned with what the first of the Maquisards is supposed to have done or not done; what worries me is that nobody bothers about him
__ George Bernanos, 1946
3. The British press ‘splashed’ the German reward for Tito, but only one paper mentioned (in small print) the reward for Mihailovich: and the charges of collaborating with the Germans continued.
__George Orwell, 1946
4. General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory.
— Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948
5. The ultimate tragedy of Draza Mihailovic cannot erase the memory of his heroic and often lonely struggle against the twin tyrannies that afflicted his people, Nazism and Communism. He knew that totalitarianism, whatever name it might take, is the death of freedom. He thus became a symbol of resistance to all those across the world who have had to fight a similar heroic and lonely struggle against totalitarianism. Mihailovic belonged to Yugoslavia; his spirit now belongs to all those who are willing to fight for freedom.
— Ronald Reagan, September 8, 1979
6.“The unparalleled rescue of over 500 American Airmen from capture by the Enemy Occupation Forces in Yugoslavia during World War II by General Dragoljub Mihailovich and his Chetnik Freedom Fighters for which this “Legion of Merit” medal was awarded by President Harry S. Truman, also represents a token of deep personal appreciation and respect by all those rescued American Airmen and their descendants, who will be forever grateful.”
___ (NATIONAL COMMITTEE OF AMERICAN AIRMEN RESCUED BY GENERAL MihailovićH – 1985)
7. “General Draza Mihailovic was a patriot, a brave soldier and a gallant ally of the United States and every nation that went to war in the early forties to destroy the tyrannies that sought to enslave our world.Hundreds of American pilots owe their lives to General Mihailovic and his forces and the American people will never forget that debt.As long as there are patriots in any nation, the name of General Draza Mihailovic will be remembered and revered”
– President Richard Nixon (April 21, 1966).
8. WHY MIHAILOVICH MATTERS
“As an American, I bow my head in shame whenever I think of the terribly mistaken policy which led the Allied leaders in World War II to abandon General Draza Mihailovich and throw their support instead to the communist cohorts of Marshal Josip Broz Tito. It was an unbelievable aberration of policy and of justice perpetrated by the Allies.
Mihailovich was the first insurgent in Europe. It was he who raised the flag of resistance to the Nazi occupier – and by his action he inspired the formation of resistance movements in all the subjugated countries.
He resisted the Nazis at the time when the Soviet Union and the communists were still collaborating with them – and his early resistance, by slowing down the Nazi timetable, was probably responsible for preventing the fall of Moscow.
The contributions of Mihailovich to the Allied cause were the subject of tributes by General Eisenhower, General De Gaulle, Field Marshal Lord Alexander, Admiral Harwood, Anthony Eden, President Truman, and, at later date of President Richard Nixon. For example, on August 16, 1942, three top ranking British officers, Admiral Harwood, General Auchinleck, and Air Marshal Tedder, sent the following joint wire to Mihailovich: “With admiration we are following your directed operations which are of inestimable value to the Allied cause.”
Today, no informed person takes seriously the communist charges that Mihailovich collaborated with the Germans, or the proceedings of the communist show trial in Belgrade which resulted in his execution. The communists made the nature of their injustice clear when they announced in advance of the trial, that Mihailovich would be executed after a ‘fair’ trial. And they also made it clear when they refused to take the evidence of the American officers who served with him or of the American airmen who were rescued by him.
Colonel Robert H. McDowell, chief of the last American mission to General Mihailovich, and perhaps the most experienced intelligence officer to serve with either side in Yugoslavia during World War II, took the time after the War to go through the German intelligence files on Yugoslavia. Not only did he find no evidence that Mihailovich collaborated with the Nazis, but he found numerous statements establishing that Hitler feared the Mihailovich movement far more than he feared the Tito movement.
The communists also feared Mihailovich more than they did any other man. And that is why, when they executed him, they disposed of his shattered body in a secret burial place, so that those who followed him and revered him would not be able to come at night to drop tears and flowers on his grave and tenderly offer a few words of prayer in gratitude to General Mihailovich for his heroism and sacrifice.
But despite all of the abuse and all the precautions of the communists, the truth about Mihailovich – now grown to the proportions of a legend – still persists among the Serbian people. Evidence of this is the remarkable article on Mihailovich which Mihajlo Mihajlov wrote for The New Leader, just before Tito’s courts sentenced him to seven years of hard labor in early March of this year.
I think that it is fitting that we in the free world who are aware of the truth should also do everything in our power to set the record straight and to bring about the ultimate vindication before the bar of history – of one of the noblest figures of World War II.
Draza Mihailovich, in addition to being an outstanding soldier and a great national leader, was a man who stood for everything that we in America believe in. He was a true believer in the rights enshrined in our own Declaration of Independence – the right to think and speak and pray in accordance with one’s own religious, political, economic and social beliefs, without government restraint or repression.
…the United States Congress should accede to the petition of the American airmen that they be authorized to erect in Washington with publicly subscribed funds, a monument which they would dedicate, in gratitude, to “General Draza Mihailovich, Savior of American Airmen.”
Beyond this, there is still a larger debt which the free world owes to the memory of General Draza Mihailovich. It is my hope that this debt will some day be repaid in full through the liberation of his people from communist tyranny.”
-Senator Frank J. Lausche, March 27, 1975
9. A Thanksgiving Tribute to the Americans from the General. An American Officer Remembers…
”As we proceeded out over the Adriatic my mind flashed back to one incident which will always have great meaning for me. Before I was leaving for my tour of Serbia, the Minister [General Mihailovich] had expressed a desire to do something to honor America saying “Here we have Slava, the day of our patron saint. What is America’s slava? ”
I thought for a moment and said, ‘We have four great days, Christmas, New Year, Independence Day and Thanksgiving. Christmas we love because it is the day of Christ. New Years we enjoy because we look with hope to it, but on its Eve we celebrate, sometimes not too wisely but too well, and often the day itself finds us with aching heads. Independence day would be wonderful except for the sadness of sacrifice and mourning that sweeps the South from the cause of our Civil War. Thanksgiving is our day, our Slava, because that day we give Thanks to God for our founding Fathers and the beginning of our country and freedom.’
Mihailovich replied, ‘Good, we would honor America and on the Eve of that day each mountaintop of Serbia will have a fire lighted by our peasants.’
On Thanksgiving Eve, three Americans standing in a tiny village high in the Serbian mountains, saw a huge fiery “A” come into being. Then another, and one after the other fires appeared until eleven peaks were outlined.
This I remember. A magnificent tribute to America from a truly great man.”
Colonel Albert B. Seitz, American Liaison Officer with General Mihailovich
10. “The United States must insist on a fair and open trial for General Mihailovich, anti-Red Chetnik hero, now in the hands of the Communist regime of Marshal Tito in Yugoslavia if our future allies are to have any confidence in our pledged word as a nation.
There is no real question about the fact that General Mihailovich took up arms against the German invaders of his country in April, 1941, at a time when Soviet Russia was an ally of National Socialist Germany.
At that time the present dictator of Yugoslavia, Marshal Josip Broz, called Tito, was an expatriate, studying in Moscow as a faithful adherent of the Third International – the Comintern – which had adopted the alliance with Hitler’s Germany as an internal program of aggression for mutual benefit. For two and one half years, during the darkest days of the struggle against Germany, Italy and Japan, Mihailovich, former minister of war in Yugoslavia, fought on our side.
No question was raised as to his loyalty or valor while there was real doubt about the outcome of the war. Only after our victory was seen as to be certain did other elements in Yugoslavia flock to the well-equipped and well-provisioned ranks of Tito, who then began to receive from the United States and Britain all that had been promised – but not delivered – to Mihailovich.
This request has been categorically refused by Tito, whose supporters in the Kremlin now openly demand that all Tito’s claims be ratified without argument.
From every point of view of American law, customs and instinct, these proposals go against the grain. They contravene our basic conception of fair play, honest dealing and of the right of every man accused to be allowed witnesses in his defense.”
The Honorable Clare Boothe Luce (R) Connecticut, April 20, 1946
American playwright, editor, journalist, ambassador, and first woman elected to U.S. Congress
11. “No people in Europe have a more heroic record in this war than the Serbs. Among them, no hero is more glorious than General Draza Mihailovic.”
– Watson Kirkconnell
12. Where are the thunderers who once could speak
The Language of the Prophets, when the weak
Were broken and the good oppressed? Where are those
Whose words were cleansing fire, till there arose
the phoenix-armies from the martyrs’ dust
To make the word the deed, oppose the lust
Of tyrants and proclaim the prophets true?
Where is the gratitude our fathers knew
And sanctuary and penance for wrong power?
Did Milton fail the martyrs, Gladstone cower
Before the ruthless? Was the public pen
careful of epithet? And public men —
Were they afraid to say: “Alas we erred
And now confess our error. Let the word
Go out, perhaps to save a soul and save
Our souls”? Today the coward and the knave
Are kings. These are mean times. If it be doom,
Our tongues, at least, are free and there is room
For utterance that salves us if not saves.
Why should we ape the silence of graves?
And even these have epitaphs as tongues.
Since power is dumb before the powerful wrongs
Let one small voice salute the Serbian.
With shame at first, then prayer for that brave man.
“I.M. Draza Mihailovich (Murdered July 16, 1946)
by L. Aaronson, British Poet, July 1946
God bless the Serbs.!
For you, Saker. You know how I feel about Serbia.
They havent stopped trying to break serbia up. They attack serbia now more than ever. Now its Vojvodina in the north, a main part of Serbia, they start making a seperatist movement with slogans in english. Big parts of Beograd itself now owned by Gulf Arabs. Then there is Liberland criminals on the Danube trying to make a tax haven for the global elites. Mass growth of Islam and Kosovans in south, Growth of Protestantism/USA cults, promotion of liberal arts Universities and learning English and Anglo values such as gay marage etc. For all the conspiracys about Zionist, in fact Jews do not much damage to serbia, actaully the opposite, Israel was one of the few to give aid and support to Milosevic in 1990s.
Serbs and Russians can be called the same people, not just brothers. For sure Bulgaria, Romania and Greece have spat at their orthodox origin and folowed Washington and London like children, in return for big reward to the new elites in these countries. But now its boomerang at them. The Anglo Suprrmacist Trumps and Brexshits that rule Angloland now hate ‘eurotrash’ wether they are orthodox or whatever. USA and England wont do anything to help Greeks etc even if Turks invade them. They are European version of the Kurds! Trump will just tell Erdogan on the telephone ‘ oh just do what you like!’
Blessings to all Pravoslavie
I have to correct you here in your statement.
You do not know what Pravoslavie is, what you do know is what Pravoverie is.
Thank you Saker for your insightful article. Thank you Auslander for the beautiful music.
Hubby and I have just returned from the Balkans (Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia). The moment we arrived in Belgrade we felt a spiritual connection with this beautiful city on the strategic confluence of the Danube and Sava rivers.
The people were kind and went the extra mile with customer service. The food scrumptious and top quality. Of course we had coffee and cake at the famous Hotel Moskva.
The murals and icons in St Sava Church equal the Cistine chapel, and it’s not finished yet. Away from the glitzy main streets, Belgrade bears the scars of history, war and abandoned buildings.
We love Belgrade… blessings to the Serbian people.
In the name of all Serbs I thank you for your personal kindness.
I thank everybody else for their words of kindness also.
I could never have imagined that we Serbs can have so much support.
And of course big thank you goes to the Saker for his very nice article on Draza Mihailovich and tiny Serbia.
Serb, read this . ‘The Revolution Business’ (2011) — https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/10/27/sunday-screening-the-revolution-business-2011/
God bless Serbia , and it’s big brother – Russia !
The future of Serbia should be based on Christ and nothing else. & Acts 4:32.
I think that you are conflating several issues here.
First, OF COURSE the future of any Orthodox nation has to be based on Christ. However, Serbia is not just any Orthodox nation, it is Serbia. Thus while being based on Christ is, indeed, necessary for Serbia to become Serbia again, just basing its future upon Christ only, will not make Serbia truly Serbian again (only truly Christian one):
A necessary condition is not the same as a sufficient one. Furthermore, to restore the historical truth – any historical truth – is a profoundly Christian thing do to, especially when dealing with martyrs.
Millions of Serbs have been killed not “just because” (fill with whatever historical theory) but precisely and specifically because they were Serbs, not Croats or Bosnian Muslims or Kosovo Albanians. They were killed primarily for their faith which, in Christian dogmatic theology makes them “martyrs”, that is “witnesses” of God.
And since the Church of Christ does not glorify people (‘make them’ saints in western terminology) from above (unlike the Papacy), it is proper and, in fact, expected, that any such movement to being the process of glorification be begun by the base, that is people simple people like me. And the Christian way to do that begins with restoring the historical truth about these people.
Which is what I endeavored to do in this article.
Quick simple slogans followed by a quote from the Scripture is not a Christian position at all.
It is, sadly, something which only sincere, but nevertheless clueless, reformed Bible-thumpers do.
Millions of Serbs…
OK, I understand that you believe in some things, but have you ever made a question mark and asked yourselves are those numbers possible.
I will tell you what is the truth and you can believe me if you want or not to believe me …
Yugoslav government demanded reparations from Germany in the late fifties and early sixties. Germans demanded details, list of names, exact numbers and all possible data about 2. world war victims in Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavs said it was 1 700 000 killed and it was official number. But Germans did not believe and persisted in demanding exact details.
Yugoslav government decided to make a census of victims. They appointed commissions in republics, then in municipalities and all of that to the lowest administrative territorial units.
In 1964 census was done and teams were going to all houses to take details. When they finished job, they sent all data to republic commissions and they sent all data to central commission in Belgrade.
And then started drama. Results were drastically below official numbers. Central commission sent everything back to republic commissions demanding another census.
In 1965 all process was repeated. Results were basically the same and YU government sent those data to Germans and they paid reparations based on that census.
All those data were put in Archive of Yugoslavia in Belgrade and they were proclamed as a state secret. After wars in nineties, Archive is open and experts can use them for scientific purpose.
They are in the same Archive today in 900 boxes and each victim has his or her card with personal details.
The results are next:
In Yugoslavia in WWII, 597 323 persons lost their lives under different circumstances.
509 849 persons were surviving victims of fascist terror.
In Jasenovac concentration camp census showed 49 875 killed persons.
In Stara Gradiska which was separate part of that camp complex census showed about 9900 victims.
Altogether around 60 000 persons.
So, if we take in consideration killed quislings and their followers then, number is somewhere around 630 000 killed persons citizens of Yugoslavia.
Serbs somewhere 350 000 persons. Which is huge number.
Official Yugoslav number of 1 700 000 killed persons was created by Prof Vladeta Vuckovic from Belgrade later living in London. He explained after that that his number is actually number of demoraphic losses of Yugoslavia, not only killed because demographic loss include fopr example ethnic Germans who were deported from Yugoslavia to Germany after war, it was 450 000 of them. And 200 000 Italians, and about 50 000 Hungarians, and something like 300 000 people who escaped Yugoslavia for political reasons …
So-called Independent State of Croatia (NDH) had two Yugoslav republics, Croatia nad Bosnia-Herzegovina.
In 1941 when war started. 703 000 Serbs lived in Croatia and 1 234 000 in Bosnia Herzegovina. It is altogether 1 931 000 persons of Serb nationality.
Census 1948 shows 543 795 Serbs in Croatia. And 1 136 116 Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
And also, seven municipalities in Vojvodina (Srem) were part of Independent State of Croatia
Number of Serbs killed in these 7 municipalities under various circumstances was 20 003 persons.
https://maticarproslosti.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/11711-mirkovic.pdf (Page 228)
Of course, there is certain birth rate so these differences are somewhat bigger. Also about 72 000 muslims declared themselves as a Serbs in census 1948. And we have to tahe certain number of persons that left Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina between 1945 and 1948 and went to colonisation in ferrtile Vojvodina and this was organized by government.
And so on and so on, but numbers do not differ too much.
But those data and numbers are only that are scientifically proved. Everything else are propaganda and fantasies made for political reasons.
So Mr. SAKER do not believe everything you hear from Ex Yugoslavia. It is my recommendations to you and everyone else.
Because people from Ex Yugoslavia like ti LIE. They are terrible liars.
Are you actually qouting croatian wikipedia? ad homimen removed .. mod
Yes he does.
Croatian Wikipedia is the biggest source of revisionism on the planet.
All the neo-fascists, neo-NAZI should read and learn from the best in the revisionist branch.
That’s the area where Croats excel.
They are absolute world champions in that branch.
Second to none.
Even Satan “father of all lies” would learn thing or two from them.
Today they control “Jasenovac” presentation of “Jasenovac” and “facts” related to that
( in the Croat way of interpreting things ).
Soon enough Croat NAZI’s from WW2 will be presented as the only victims of their own concentration camp “Jasenovac”.
And Serbs as only executioners of those “victims”.
Up side down history, Croat way…
Just Google “Bleiburg Ustashe” and see the photos of the yearly revisionist (neo-NAZI) celebration
( sponsored officially by Croat Government every year in Bleiburg Austria ). See all those Croats dressed in
NAZI – Ustashe uniforms.
( From last year, it is finally forbidden to the Croats by the Austrian police to dress in NAZI uniforms during the events )
There was “Thompson” concert in Zagreb in 2007 where 60 000 young Croats were shouting “Za dom spremni” which is Croat NAZI equivalent of German NAZI “Sieg Heil”.
Now all those photos and videos are deleted…
yup..everything well said, bosnian Croat. I am pretty much shocked by this historical revisionism of Draža Mihailović, it is easily comparable to revisionism in Croatia,or (for the Saker,yes I know,it hurts),to Bandera in Ukraine. Why? Because,as is always the case, when somebody wants to make propaganda,it is necessary to tell the story this way:80% truth,and then,one can choose to lie or not to tell the whole truth. It is about presenting the case. Regarding this article,it is just that:entire truth is not said, I am not telling that I read a lie,and we see a “honourable” Draža with his hordes of chetniks who were doing indeed huge atrocities and oh yes,cooperating with Nazis in same time while were rescuing allied pilots. And so on. I could write and write,but I would not compare Balkan case with USSR
You stated that “because people from ex-Yugoslavia like to lie… they are terrible liars”. Your insult needs to be corrected. Every census taken in the former Yugoslavia was a fraud, a well known fact. When it comes to the former concentration camp of Jasenovac, there were numerous attempts to have the grounds of the concentration camp exhumed, so that the exact number of victims could be ascertained (the victims were never cremated). All attempts were denied. Why ?
“Because people from Ex Yugoslavia like ti LIE. They are terrible liars.”
I would rather say that they are completely indoctrinated with propaganda.
Obviously we are talking about AngloZionist propaganda, because AngloZionst wants to exterminate the Slavic people or to radialy reduce theri number.
Who is (and practically always) the owner of the mass media in the so-called West today?
Hint: The same ones who own 90% banks in West.
They are also the owners of false “history” too, because they made it as needed …
I just don’t get how the future should be based rectifying this or that WWII could ever do anything but lead to more division or how this isn’t all heretical phyletism anyway. It’s a completely different world now. We’re facing global financier-oligarchy.
I’ve lived in Belgrade for 2 years. I like and support Serbia. “They” have been treated a bit like Germany at Versailles, but need to stop pretending ‘they’ never did anything wrong. There are no simple answers in the Balkans. Orthodox faith that is anything more than a bauble on the breast of heretical phyletism is extremely rare here, though it does exist. Most people are nostalgic for SFRY because the future didn’t seem like nothing but bleak oligarchy like now. That’s a global problem. Sorry balkan readers but you people need to up your game on raising your children into adults. You can base the future on winnie the pooh or whoever you want, but with the incredibly low level of emotional literacy/emotional health, and the shockingly ubiquitous narcissistic superficiality this nation suffers, they’re going nowhere fast.
Thank you Saker from the heart for this very moving piece you have posted.
Better times are ahead of us with Vladimir at the helm in Russia, Serbia too will get a leader that will take care of it’s people and defend it’s rights as any God loving patriot, not fascist, would do.
We await, as the saying goes….when the Cathedral of Saint Sava in Belgrade is finished….the moment nears that in Serbia a new leader wil arise, амин, Боже дај!!
Thank you for this. Hats off to the valiant, long-suffering Serbian people! May the flock of St. Sava, St. Nikolai, and St. Justin ever endure despite all that the enemy throws against them.
Interesting article by The Saker. A few points need to be added. General Drazha Mikailovich was never commander of the Chetniks as such. He was made commander of the Yugoslav Army under wartime occupation, which was made up of those elements who escaped German capture. The Chetniks were Serbian paramilitaries who specialized in guerrilla warfare, and they were incorporated into the Yugoslav Army prior to the German attack against Yugoslavia in 1941. Their origins go back to Turkish times, when Serbia was invaded, and when remnants of the Serbian feudal army continued with guerrilla warfare.
As for the genocide against Serbs during World War Two, the West went out of it’s way to mention it as little as possible. Why ? Because all of you who know international law know the legal principle and stipulation which states that a country which committed genocide cannot control the territory on which genocide was instigated for a period of 100 years. This means that from the legal point of view neither Croatia nor Bosnia and Herzegovina could have been recognized as independent states in 1991 and 1992. On the contrary, the West went out of it’s way to both conceal and rewrite history by accusing Serbs of “genocide”, citing Srebrenica.
Srebrenica was a Muslim garrison town in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It’s name is Serbian, and it means Silver Town. It was under the protection of a Dutch contingent of UN troops. However, the Dutch commander permitted the garrison to go on a rampage, destroying 144 Serbian villages and murdering 3.400 Serbian men, women and children. When the Bosnian Serbs took the town in 1995, they provided Muslim women and children with food, water and transport. They were safely escorted out of the town. However, the killers from the garrison were indeed executed for their deeds. I do not wish to give the exact number, as it has to be ascertained. However, this number is certainly three times lower than the number of butchered Serbian civilians.
The monument in Srebrenica holds the names of more than 8.000 “victims”. When the monument was erected, the Sarajevo Government did a foolish thing. They engraved the names of the “victims” on the monument. After that the Serbian authorities from the Republic of Srpska filmed the names, ascertaining that more than 6.000 names belong to people who either never existed, or who were very much alive. The monument is a fraud. The cemetery in Srebrenica holds the remains of Muslim troops who were executed, Muslim troops who died in combat (legitimate kills), as well as Serbian troops and butchered Serbian civilians who were exhumed and reburied as Muslims. The cemetery, too, is a fraud.
The Serbian future will not be rebuilt because of General Mikhailovich as such, as the ideas which he advocated were not his, but rather a common historical objective in having Serbian lands reunited.
In 1371 Bosnia and Herzegovina was united with Serbia, as the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina then was 100 % Serbian. This means that in 1371 Serbia was composed of Bosnia and Herzegovina (including 2/3 of the Adriatic coastline), Serbia proper (also known as Rascia), Montenegro (also known as Zeta), and the current Macedonia. Kosovo and Metohija was then a dukedom, ruled by the Brankovich family, and it too was 100 % Serbian in ethnic composition.
I have to disagree with The Saker that Serbia and Russia will not see a return of monarchies. Currently at the University of Belgrade there is a student association advocating the reinstatement of the monarchy. In Russia there is a saying that “Russia cannot be governed without God and the Tzar). No, this will not happen overnight, only when the time comes. Just to point out that when Crimea was reunited with Russia, the Romanov descendants living in the West rushed to Crimea, no doubt trying to prove that they recognized the reunification with Russia. There is little doubt in my mind that this was a combined MI6/CIA operation, preparing their candidates for the time when Putin’s presidency concludes. I fear they are too late. According to unofficial data I read, there are Romanov descendants living in Russia.
My friend, I will leave others, more competent than myself, to react to the rest of your very interesting post. However, I do have to tell you two things:
1) the current Romanov descendants are a sad joke at best.
2) when a dynasty ends, a new one has to be elected by the people
I strongly believe that the Romanov’s are long over as a dynasty and, purely theoretically now, should Russia ever decided to become a truly Christian monarchy again, then a Zemskii Sobor would have to chose a new dynasty (electing each king – as opposed to a dynasty – the way the Poles did is NOT a truly Christian monarchy but, again, just a way for the class elites to hide their interests behind the back of a nominal king).
I respect every word you wrote. After all, you are Russian and know the feel of Russia better than me. However, you of course know that the history of Russia is interconnected with the Romanov’s. For a new Parliament (Sobor) to elect a new dynasty is virtually unthinkable, as who take such a newly created dynasty seriously.
Some years ago an acquaintance of mine, with connections to the Serbian and Russian Orthodox Churches, told me that it was an open secret inside the Russian Orthodox Church that it was only a matter of time before the monarchy was reinstated in Russia. According to other unofficial sources a Romanov candidate has been picked. Of course, there is no way I can confirm this. Time will tell.
Топли поздрави из Србије.
As you know before the Romanovs there were the Rurikides which, by the way, the Romanovs also were. I can tell you that I have studied the topic of Russian monarchy not only ad aeternam but even ad nauseam (including Tikhomirov, Rozanov, Solonevich (whose collective works I re-read several times), Illin, Solzhenitsyn (whose collective works I also re-read several times), Pobedonostsev, etc. etc. etc.) and I can promise you that they all posit specific circumstances as necessary to have a true Orthodox monarchy as opposed to what Solonevich called a “regularly fed parasite” (very rough translation of his “вскормленный паразит”). To my immense regret, these conditions are NOT present in modern day Russia. Much worse, those who now are advocating the notion of a monarchy are only building yet another layer to separate the people from their true sovereignty. Yes, it is totally possible that the current ruling elites in Russia will decide that it would be a neat trick to get some kind of “Czar” on the throne and then use his authority to continue to pillage Russia and maintain their class rule. This is especially true if they succeed in putting a descendant of the Romanov’s on their throne. This will be a travesty, a caricature, a perversion of what a Christian monarchy really is.
Finally, a monarchy presupposes not only a totally independent Church, but one which is not afraid to speak truth to power. To my heartbreaking sadness, the Moscow Patriarchate is still full-bore “Neo-Sergianist” and therefore cannot play such a role. That is an impossibility.
All my decades of studying history, theology, monarchist apologetics etc, ALL lead me to the three following conclusions:
1) Such a pseudo-monarchy will be a disaster for Russia, I promise you!!
2) A secular but patriotic regime is MUCH better for today’s Russia, much better.
3) There shall never be another Orthodox monarchy again
So my monarchism is purely an apologetical one only, not a prescriptive one.
Maybe what I believe (especially #3) is wrong and Serbia is different from Russia in this aspect. That is really for the Serbs to decide for themselves.
But for Russia monarchy will forever remain a thing of the past, that is my very strong belief.
Kind regards and thank you!
“But for Russia monarchy will forever remain a thing of the past”
I think for Serbia too. The Karađorđević-es are all pro-EU! For me, that’s a huge non-starter right there.
I’m sorry to disappoint a sizable group of well meaning and patriotic Serbs, but the Karadjordjevic dynasty dried up a long time ago. Unfortunately, the present batch are not deserving of that great name and legacy.
I do not wish to get too far off the topic of Draza and WWII. I’ll happily share my insights into the family another time. You instincts are spot on. Coming from a fiercely loyal Royalist family, it’s not easy to say. As someone once said, the truth is the truth, no matter how painful.
“The Karađorđević-es are all pro-EU!”
You hit the nail.
I personally think, that the Karadjordjevics are definitely a Masonic product, placed in that place to virtually prevent Russia from entering the Balkans.
With Karadjordjevics, Serbia was exclusively the Serbian barrier to Russia influence.
This was seen in 1914 and even more clearly in 1941.
The Karadjordjevics just returned to their AngloZionist masters in London.
Nominal king, what is that? Like a pawn??
In 1371 Bosnian Kingdom was not united with Serbia.
Bosnia and Serbia were separate kingdoms. Bosnian king Tvrtko took many titles and title King of Serbs because his grandmother was from Nemanic dinasty. But he never ruled Serbian lands and Serbian rulers did not rule Bosnian lands.
You are perfectly correct. The exact date was 1375 (my mistake), when Bosnia and Herzegovina was united with Serbia. The point is that two Serbian kingdoms were united into one. Also, in 1375 Bosnia and Herzegovina was 100 % Serbian, while the population of Dalmatia was also 100 % Serbian. Look at Austrian maps from the 18th century, which portray Dalmatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina in the blue color, meaning they were Serbian Orthodox. Also, in Dalmatia you will find Serbian Orthodox monasteries, like the Monastery of Krka. These are facts.
I never believed the official narrative about the so called Srebrenica massacre,i believe there were about seven thousand Bosnian Muslim troops in the town,including the murderer Naser Oric,when the Bosnian Serb Army attacked i think many of those Muslim fighters tried to break through Serb lines,and thats when they were killed,having said that any of those bastards who were with Oric deserved to be shot out of hand.
A view of the Balkans
AS A BRITISH SOLDIER WHO HAS SERVED widely in Bosnia for seven months now, I feel I must take issue with the nature of the reporting from this region [May 17]. In the case of the Muslim town of Sre¬brenica, your articles have been scath¬ing in denouncing the Bosnian Serbs and their shelling of the town. However, you have failed to address the question of where the Serbian population of Sre¬brenica was. The Serbs made up 30% of its prewar population. Early on in the conflict, they were forced out of their homes with whatever belongings they could carry and ordered to leave. As the Bosnian Serbs fled, Muslims fired wildly on men, women and children on the road. This story was told to British sol¬diers in Srebrenica by Muslims them¬selves and later by Bosnian Serbs. Earli¬er this year, Bosnian Muslims launched their offensive in eastern Bosnia, bomb¬ing Bosnian Serb villages, raping wom¬en and destroying livestock.
1 realize that this makes me sound like an apologist for the Bosnian Serbs. I know that what they are doing is terrible. But the press has a moral duty to report objectively. The media are creating a “Let’s do something’, let’s bomb the Serbs; let’s arm the Muslims” rhetoric that is very dangerous. We in Europe un¬derstand the Balkan chicanery and cun¬ning far better than Americans do. We do not want to see ourselves further em-broiled in a morass when there is no one side that is uniquely culpable. A British soldier sees the bodies of three Croat children who have had their throats cut by Muslim soldiers. Does he want to see those Muslims with bigger and better weapons? Please be more objective.
Sergeant. British Army
“Because all of you who know international law know the legal principle and stipulation which states that a country which committed genocide cannot control the territory on which genocide was instigated for a period of 100 years. ”
İ know (or like to think i do at least) international law but please educate me on where this principle, including its curious 100yr condition, is stipulated…
Return of monarchies?!
For Russia I don’t know, depends who…but for Serbia Karadjordjevic dynasty is total disaster!
I am not against the royalists but I am definitely against Karadjordjevic family and Yugoslavia
in any shape or form.
I sincerely hope that Karadjordjevic will stay away from power forever.
They are members Order of Malta, a Catholics and Masons in the same time.
Thanks to them, Yugoslavia has brought only endless misery and suffering to us Serbs.
They have brought destruction to Serbian nation in many generations from which we will never recover.
One more addition…
I personally know of a case in which an ABIH (Muslim Armed Forces) soldier killed in the HVO (Croatian Armed Forces) fighting in town Mostar was buried in Srebrenica.
His body was literally transferred after the war from Mostar to Srebrenica.
I can just suppose that there are more similar cases…
Thank you Saker. My late step-father, a Bosnian Serb, as a teenager fought in the ranks of the Chetniks during the war. It was a civil war raging below the German occupation. He very seldom mentioned his experiences during the war but there was always a certain bitterness about his political musings regarding Yugoslavia after it emerged from its civil war and occupation.
Mr. Saker. Hopefully Serbia will “regain consciousness ” and leave Draža Mihailović where he belongs: in the dark pit of nationalism, collaborationism and war crimes. That said, and leaving all the politics and ideology from your post aside, I want to make just couple of remarks:
1. Draža was ( among other things) sentenced for horrible crimes against Serbian people in Serbia. Notorious example is massacre in village Vranić. His defence? I didn’t order that.
2. Draža was associated with horrible war criminals and collaborators mainly with Italian fascists. Most notable were Đurišić, Đujić and Zimonjić. His defence ? He didn’t explicitly order them ethnic cleansing and massacres. Most notable are Visegrad and numerous in Montenegro.
Draža Mihailović (Royal officer and chief of the army) should have known what is and isn’t permitted in war and especially against civilians. That said, the only conclusion is that he was either a very weak commander or a war criminal himself ( active participant in crime).
Read stenogram from his trial and Chetniks by Jozo Tomasevich. That is no communist propaganda and is self explanatory. Serbia should embrace it’s ww1 and ww2 values, but Draža is just a little weak man with too much burden. Nothing to be proud of. Konstantin Koca Popović is for example something else entirely.
Draža Mihailović was never “associated” with Đurišić and Đujić, as such an statement is absurd. Đurišić was a Chetnik commander in Montenegro, while Đujić was a Chetnik commander in North Dalmatia, and in 1945 he retreated to Austria, and later on to the US, to California. The US authorities never touched him.
Your presentation is selective, a little trick known to every journalist. You forgot to mention that the Croats, Muslims of Bosnia and Albanians were Nazi allies. Read this article and see how many people they butchered. Finally, Tito’s partisan forces became a really powerful force only when King Karadjordjević, at Churchill’s demand, ordered all Chetnik forces to join Tito’s partisans, something communist historians omit to mention, as it would have been too embarrassing. The intent was to create a Yugoslav Federation and break up the Serbian ethnic territories, as Serbs are Orthodox Christians, just like Russians. The overall aim was to prevent Russia ending up on the Adriatic coast and in the Balkans. Don’t tell me you don’t know this.
Dear sir, english is not my native language, but the choice of word “associated” is appropriate. Đurišić, Đujić and Zimonjić were very well documented war criminals and colalborators. You can research that online – it is very easy, especially the massacres part. Draza claimed that he didn’t order their misdeeds, and didn’t know about it. So, was he their commander or not ? And who was guilty for their crimes ? Regarding pop Đujić, and USA – there is a lot of global politics in there, so I will not go there.
Regarding your second part of post, my presentation is very selective – I will not discuss global politics, Russia, communism etc. Also you cannot defend crime with crime. I am writing about two very simple things: in a serbian village Vranić Avala chetnik detachment killed 67 people because of suspected partisan sympathy. Draza promoted officer who was responsible. Can you explain that ?
Also, similar example – when chetniks “liberated” Visegrad from Axis forces (victory indeed), they massacred thousands of people there (civilians). Draza was a commander od JvUO, so he essentialy killed his own people (nevermind that they were not Serbs – they were Yugolav people). He (there’s a pattern there) promoted responsible officers…
SO, to be clear – I am selective, and I condemn all crime – and one massacre is not a free pass for another one, especially for a royal officer and profesional soldier.
Dear sir, I will be happy to easily refute, your evidence free and baseless claims of collaboration and war crimes , when you actually present some of your “evidence”.
In fact before posting your viscous and nonsensical claims, perhaps you would have been wise to watch the documentary, and to read and watch the links, the Saker has provided. They provide mountains of evidence, historical Nazi documents and eye witness testimony, which directly flies in the face of your baseless commentary. Do a google search you say, hardee har har. The AngloZionist media apparatus, have done all they can to refute the historical truth, while actively propagating your misguided view. In spite of this concerted effort, the truth wasn’t able to be erased. And it will come out whether you like it or not. I thank God, that there are still wise and courageous voices, like our host, who will stand up for the truth.
Anyone with a modicum of knowledge, about these events, would know that the Italians stationed in war ravaged Yugoslavia were the only occupying force , which never participated in the butchering and slaughtering of innocent Serbian women and children. Most Italian soldiers hated Mussolini and were physically sickened by the sadistic actions of the Croatians, their catholic brethren. The Italians protected many Serbian villages from being wiped out and massacred. (In fact the most hardened SS German officers could not stomach what the Croatians, Bosnian muslims and Albanians were doing to the Serbs) In one instance, upon the discovery of a pile of mutilated Children’s corpses, the SS Colonel walked up to the Croat commander and shot him in the head!
The Italians, on rare occasions, reached out and sometimes provided intelligence on Nazi movements to Chetnik commanders like Pop Djujic and Pavle Djurisic, in an attempt to prevent further Serbian civilian atrocities. Vojvoda Djujic and Djurisic (not under the direct command of Draza), we’re fighting in the heart of where these atrocities of the Serbian people, were taking place. Your disdain for these brave men are not out of some sort of fair play, truth telling, or you would admit had it not been for these two, hundreds of thousands more Serbs would have been added to the Genocide count. Them be the facts, my communist propagandized friend.
But I invite you to provide verifiable evidence to the contrary, so I can go in-depth and refute each little bit.
History cannot be changed. No matter what is said this man was a mass murderer of his own people, leader of gang of cowards who instead fighting nazis, slaughtered innocent. He is part of dark and murderous serb history. Compared with him Tito was humanitarian. To exonerate monster like this means to denied heroic secrefise ordinary people placed on the altar of freedom in the battle against nazis that was fought by all that refused to sit idle or collaborate like this coward and his dirty gang of murdering thugs. World remembers.This happend not so long ago. Unfortunately horror of chetniks kama repeated itself in nineties all over again. Mass graves, rapes, ethnic cleansing, genocide. Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo all done for same idea that drive this brutal murderer.
“Mass murderers” in WW2 Nazi German occupied Yugoslavia were firstly & foremost without any question the Ustasa regime of the Nazi quisling “Independent State of Croatia”, with whom the notorious SS divisions “Handzar” consisting of Bosnian & Sandzak muslims & SS “Skenderbeg” constituted by Kosovo Albanians. Nothing, but nothing compares to the genocide carried out againsts Serbs, Jews & Roma by these Nazi puppet forces on which the contemporary Croatia & Federation of Bosnia/Herzegovina base themselves. It was very convenient for Tito’s communist Partizan outfit to legitimise their collaboration with these Nazi quislings and preparedness to join Hitler officially in the event of an Allied landing by projecting their own criminality on to the Chetniks of General Dragoljub Draza Mihajlovic who led the first uprising against Nazi occupation in all Europe.Tito’s Partisans picked up in 1945 where the Croatian Ustasa and SS Handzar & SS Skenderbeg left off by conducting mass excecutions of totally innocent civilains, overwhelmingly in Serbia. The principal war criminals in WW2 occupied Yugoslavia were Ante Pavelic & Josip Broz Tito & their murderous executioners.Nazi German documentation more than adequately bares all of this out, largely covered up for over 50 years in order to prepare the way for a repeat resurrection of Ustasa/Handzar/Skenderbeg movements in 1991 led by Nazi sympathisers Frnajo Tedjman, Alija Izetbegovic & Ibrahim Rugova.
One hot summer day in 1974 I stopped at a small tavern south of Gacko Hercegovina. I asked for a cold drink and was given a beer . I introduced myself and told the owner ( a woman dressed in black) that my wife who did not speak Serbian was from a Croatian part of Hercegovina. The woman got up abruptlyand left the table . I was confused as to why but a relative said that just some 100 meters from the tavern there is a Karst pit (jama) into which some 60 villagers were thrown and then grenades thrown down after them The owners husband was one of them thrown into the pit. . There were hundreds of such karst pits in the region where Croats and Muslims executed thousands of Serbian civilians. .
What planet does Truthnotrevisionism come from? It is, of course, correct that General Mihailovic was sentenced for all the heinous crimes Truthnotrevisionism he cites by the kangaroo court that tried him. But had Truthnotrevisionism had the similar misfortune of being brought before the same court and charged with the same crimes, he would have been condemned and shot as well, regardless of whether he had actually committed these crimes or not. After the Stalinist show trials in the 30s (the general’s trial was patterned precisely on those abominations of “justice,” as it took place in 1946 at the height of the Stalin-Tito collaboration) for anyone to regard seriously the proceedings of such a corrupt “court” calls into question his judgment and seriously undermines the credibility of his conclusions.
Be it noted that the results of that judicial travesty that the author relies on to bolster his argument were annulled by a Serbian court in 2015 and that today General Mihailovic is from the standpoint of Serbian law an unindicted person, free of any blemish maliciously attributed to him by his communist persecutors.
If the writer knew anything about on-the-ground facts in the Italian occupation zone (which included large areas of Bosnia and Dalmatia that were part of satellite “Independent State of Croatia”) he would be aware of the salvific role played by the Italians in saving the lives of tens of thousands of Serbs targeted for death by the Croatian Ustashi. Although technically allies of the Croats, the Italians (like many Germans) were shocked by the barbarity of Ustashi crimes and have left voluminous archival evidence of their revulsion. Since the chief objective of General Mihailovic’s troops was to save the Serbian people from genocide and extinction, working with the Italians to those ends was not a war crime, but a laudable and patriotic operation.
I am not aware of any transcript of Mihailovic’s trial in Jozo Tomasevich’s book about the Chetniks, though the Communist regime which executed him did produce a tendentiously edited version of the proceedings. Sadly, Truthnotrevisionism discloses his true face of a Titoist dinosaur in the positive reference he makes to Konstantin Koca Popovic, the Yugoslav dictator’s long-time toady who served as foreign minister and vice-president, who was deeply involved in the regime’s deplorable crimes. To mention just one, according to the latest historical scholarship, on behalf of Tito’s Main Staff Popovic was selecting Serbian cities and targets within them for bombardment by Allied air force in the summer of 1944, supposedly to inflict damage on German installations. However, the real purpose of these terror bombings, which did little damage to the retreating Germans, was to terrorize and intimidate the overwhelmingly pro-Mihailovic population of Serbia and facilitate the seizure of power by Tito’s Communist Partisans. The contrast between the scoundrel Popovic and the noble hero and patriot Draza Mihailovic could not be more stark. Truthnotrevisionism has indeed paid General Mihailovic high tribute, of the sort that unintentionally vice often pays to virtue, by juxtaposing them.
Truthnotrevisionism comes from the planet of facts, not political pamphlets.
1. My post about notorius crimes (Vranić and Višegrad but there are many more examples) mentions Draza’s trial and sentencing, but the point is not about the trial itself, but about the crimes. Did they happen ? Who commited them ? Against whom ? What happened afterwards. You are free to research it, and they most certainly are very well documented, trial or not. The rehabilitation is a disgrace for serbian state, but again that is not the point. Shameful acts against it’s own people are the point, trial or not.
Second part of your post is interesting. So, Italians helped save Serb people against Ustasa atrocites ? (They indeed did !). So, in return chetnics collaborated with Italians (They indeed did !) But how ? By fighting against communist forces (who were on the Allied side), effectively siding with Axis forces ! Neretva, Sutjeska – there are many examples of coordinated military action with Germans and Italians.
Yay – but what about nonsense about first guerrila in Europe and all that stuff (Polish people were the first, not Draza…).
So let’s see, we have atrocitites against his own people (letter Z – you know about that I am sure), we have collaboration (with or without justification) and we have a professional soldier who “didn’t know” and “didn’t order”.
That nonsense about Koca Popovic is not worth commenting, really, please give credible sources.
Your “heroic” partisans, explicitly collaborated with and never attacked the Croat Ustashi, who were responsible for the most sadistic genocide “in the history of humankind”. They could literally see the Jasenovac Death camp, from their home base. Most Serbian peasants, who made up the majority of partisan troops, like my paternal grandfather, were forced at gunpoint, and their families threatened, to fight with the partisans. Any partisan officers who tried to attack the Croat Ustashi , were killed or imprisoned.
I know you didn’t bother to check any of the links The Saker provided, so here’s just one excerpt from the Vatican’s Holocaust, which was linked to the article:
Children were not spared, and special concentration camps were set up for them. Nine of these were at Lobor; Jablanac, near Jasenovac; Mlaka; Brocice; IJstici; Stara Gradiska; Sisak; Jastrebarsko; and Ciornja Rijeka. The destruction of infants in these places would be incredible, were it not vouched for by eyewitnesses, one of whom has testified:
At that time fresh women and children came daily to the Camp at Stara Gradiska. About fourteen days later, Vrban [Commandant of the Camp] ordered all children to be separated from their mothers and put in one room. Ten of us were told to carry them there in blankets. The children crawled about the room, and one child put an arm and leg through the doorway, so that the door could not be closed. Vrban shouted: ‘Push it!’ When I did not do that, he banged the door and crushed the child’s leg. Then he took the child by its whole leg, and banged it on the wall till it was dead. After that we continued carrying the children in. When the room was full, Vrban brought poison gas and killed them all.
At his trial, Ante Vrban protested that he had not killed hundreds of children personally, “but only sixty-three.”
In 1942 there were some 24,000 children in the Jasenovac camp alone, 12,000 of whom were cold-bloodedly murdered. A very large portion of the remainder, having subsequently been released following pressure by the International Red Cross, perished wholesale from intense debilitation. One hundred of these infants, aged up to twelve months, for instance, died after release from the camp because of the addition of caustic soda to their food.
Dr. Katicic, Chairman of the Red Cross, shocked by these mass murders, lodged the strongest protest, threatening to denounce to the world this mass slaughter of infants. As a reply, Pavelic had Dr. Katicic flung into the concentration camp of Stara Gradiska.
That was not all. Even worse horrors—if worse there could be—took place in Pavelic’s concentration camps. There were cases when the victims were burned alive:
The cremation at Jasenovac took place in the spring of 1942. In this they meant to imitate the Nazi camps in Germany and Poland, so Picilli had the notion of making the brickworks into a crematorium, where he did succeed, out of 14 ovens (7 a side) in making an oven for cremating people. There was then a decision to cremate people alive, and simply open the huge iron door and push them alive into the fire already alight there. That plan, however, excited terrible reaction among those who were to be burned. People shrieked, shouted and defended themselves. To avoid such scenes, it was resolved first to kill them and then to burn them.
The representatives of the “only true Church” not only knew of such horrors: not a few of them were authorities in these same concentration camps, and had even been decorated by Ante Pavelic—e.g. Father Zvonko Brekalo, of the concentration camp of Jasenovac, who was decorated in 1944 by the leader himself with the “Order of King Zvonimir”; Father Grga Blazevitch, Assistant to the Commandant of the concentration camp of Bosanski-Novi; Brother Tugomire Soldo, organizer of the great massacre of the Serbs in 1941; and others. The worst abominations could hardly have been surpassed by the deeds of these individuals, the vilest betrayers of civilization and of man.
I. Katolicki List, June 11, 1942.[Back]
2. Speech by Dr. Mirko Puk, Minister of Justice and Religion. Excerpt from stenographic record of the proceedings of a regular session of the Croatian State Assembly, held in Zagreb, February 25, 1942.[Back]
3. All the crimes described in this book are authentic. For further atrocities of this kind, see the Memorandum sent to the General Assembly of UNO in 1950 by A. Pribicevic, President of the Independent Democratic Party of Yugoslavia, and by Dr. V. Belaicic, former Justice of the Supreme Court of Yugoslavia. Also Dokumenti, compiled by Joza Horvat and Zdenko Stambuk, Zagreb, 1946.[Back]
4. Statement made by witness Cijordana Friedlender, from the shorthand notes of the Ljubo Milos case, pp. 292-3.[Back]
5. From shorthand notes of the Ljubo Milos case.[Back]
6. Idem. See also official indictment of Ante Pavelic.[Back]
-The Vatican’s Holocaust, by Avro Manhattan (1914-1990)
Dear sir, facts about atrocities in Jasenovac are very well known to me, and I don’t know why you think I would dispute them. In fact, I lost some of my relatives there. But, the original post is about Draza and Jasenovac is not the topic.
Regarding the links posted I didn’t watch Chetniks-the fighting guerrilas (and won’t :) but the documentary is very professionally produced, but omits several key facts (half truth is not the truth).
For example – it is known fact that chetniks (perhaps in desperation, bravery and whatnot) defeated NDH forces in Visegrad and that military success was attributed to partisans by BBC. Documentary also states that. But the documentary does not say that chetniks afterwards had a gruesome party that lasted for 5 days and where they killed almost 2.000 people. And that exactly is my point. Was Draza responsible for that ? Did he order it ? Allow it ? Investigated it ? The truth is a little bit of everything. And that was not isolated case – that was the norm.
Ah, see how much your narrative changes after actually watching the video. Americans call that “moving the goal posts” . You cannot bring up the “collaboration with Italians” and not expect a history lesson about Jasenovac and the countless other Croat death camps. Talk about half-truths and nefarious intentions.
Widely known, by whom? By you? now that you have irrefutable proof that it was the Chetniks that launched the largest allied operation against the Nazis and their disciples, in Yugoslavia ? What a back handed way to determine their reasoning “(perhaps in desperation, bravery and whatnot)”
You proclaimed your original accusations quite vehemently; baseless assertions that Draza was a collaborator, war criminal, etc. etc. In every reply since, you’ve changed your argument while your underlying intent is unmistakable.
Like I stated earlier, please provide irrefutable evidence to back up your slanderous accusations. If not, I’ll chalk this up as just another lost soul whose prejudices still infect their logical reasoning.
You know all about Jasenovac and Partisan atrocities and yet you still have the audacity to castigate the victims and the heroes who sacrificed to protect your people (that’s if you’re actually Serbian.) Regardless of your ethnicity, I wish you luck and good health. Buy if you’re a Serb- SRAMOTA
Hi, i in no way will try to intersect with your dispute.
Just want to clarify, you are looking from one point in time and into another point in time.
You have to understand the”spirit of the time” of that time, and “rules of war” at that time.
During WWII mass casualty retaliation was not forbidden by any international treaty.
To say that partisans did not fight against Ustashas is notorious and ridiculous historical revisionism and blatant lie.
My grandfather was partisan for 3.5 years and he was wounded fighting against ustashas in North Dalmatia.
Ustasha regime was destroyed by NOP – Partisan Movement.
(Removed ,please don’t insult other posters.MOD)
The “planet of facts” is apparently located in a parallel universe under the management of an autistic communist demi-god. I have no idea why Truthnotrevisionism is so gung ho on Koca Popovic but if he insists on being educated on that man’s sordid personal background and shameful contribution to the bombing of his own people by foreign powers, all for base ideological and power seeking reasons, I recommend the following sources:
These texts are in Serbian and perhaps inaccessible to most readers, but they speak in detail about Allied bombings of Serbian towns in 1944 at Tito’s request and for the purpose of softening up hostile and pro-Mihailovic Serbia in anticipation of the arrival of communist Partisan troops. In addition to Tito, the other personality that played a major role in the commission of these crimes against humanity is Tito’s military commander and henchman, Koca Popovic.
As for “collaboration with the Germans” (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/German%E2%80%93Yugoslav_Partisan_negotiations) the spring 1943 negotiations with the Nazis undertaken by Tito’s communist guerrillas are a prime example of communist perfidy. Uncertain of long-term Allied support (Teheran and Yalta were still in the future), and fearful of a possible Allied invasion of Hitler’s soft Balkan underbelly on the Adriatic coast that might block his ascent to power in Yugoslavia, Tito sent a delegation to Zagreb to negotiate with German military authorities joining forces to drive the Allies into the sea should they disembark in the Adriatic. Tito’s delegation was composed of Vladimir Velebit, Milovan Djilas, and Koca Popovic. No action was taken by the Germans on Tito’s offer of collaboration only because Hitler turned it down. But if Tito and Popovic had been tried by the same standards that were used in General Mihailovic’s trial, they should have been shot for that act of treason alone.
The initial scholarly analysis of Tito/German negotiations conducted in 1943 was published by Walter Roberts in “Tito, Mihailovic, and the Allies, 1941-1945” in 1973. It is available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tito-Mihailovic-Allies-Walter-Roberts/dp/0822307731) but I don’t know whether Amazon delivers on Truthnotrevisionism’s planet.
You’ve provided us with incredibly informative and insightful articles, which refute the AngloZionists’ propaganda of the 90’s. Thank you.
I must say, the reply above, is the best yet! I’ve never seen a better rebuttal. We do pray that he researches a bit and has an epiphany. I’m guessing a descendant. It would have to be a special delivery indeed
Partisan delegation (Popovich, Velebit and Djilas) went to Zagreb to negotiate with ustashas about exchange of captured prisoners. And some other issues.
And it is normal thing. I really do not see what is problem with that.
Sorry Bosnian Croat, but you’ve got it all wrong. Prisoner exchange negotiations were a post festum communist cover story once evidence of Tito’s treasonous contacts with the Germans surfaced. The Partisan prisoner exchange negotiator Stilinovic was not involved in these negotiations, which were conducted by three high level figures in Tito’s entourage (Velebit, Djilas, and Popovic) and with a completely different strategic objective in mind. What that objective was, Walter Roberts explains in his minutely documented scholarly study, pages 110-112:
Roberts’ conclusion is damning: “The fact remains, however, that the Partisans, who labeled Mihailovic and the Chetnics traitors for their accommodations with the enemy, sent two high ranking officers to the German general in Zagreb with the purpose of arranging a cease-fire, after having declared in writing that their main enemies were the Chetniks and not the occupying Axis forces” (pages 111-112).
Do I need to continue?
To continue WHAT? To say that partisans collaborated with Germans, Italians and Ustashas.
It is such a nonsense that is silly to discuss about that.
Partisans defeated all nazis, fascists and all collaborators and it is the fact.
And I am sorry but the truth is well known. All what you insinuate is insult for partisan heroes that sacrificed so much.
Dear Bosnian Croat…
Once again you earn my respect, and that of many other objective readers here I’m sure…you said…
This is the simple, heroic truth…
Chetniks were enemies of the Yugoslav people and collaborated with fascists…they only fought against the partisans as you correctly point out…
Like I said earlier, this discussion is pointless because all the so-called ‘Serbian patriots’ here are simply reconstructed fascists and communist haters, who have been brainwashed by imperialist propaganda…
These same people now bemoan the fact that the Serbs came up with the short end of the stick after the 1990s destruction of the great nation of Yugoslavia…when in fact it was their extreme nationalist ideology and hatred for Yugoslavia that contributed to the country’s destruction…
These are the same people now who want to push Serbia into the fascist EU…and who still collaborate with the enemies of freedom…
Their position is completely inconsistent with any kind of logic…
Regarding your earlier comment about seeing hope in the younger generation…I agree with this…it is also the case in the United States, where the young generation is rejecting capitalism and embracing socialism…despite all the brainwashing [or perhaps because of it…the lies having become completely transparent]…
We see this also on the micro level, where a child that has the misfortune of being born to parents who are bums and drunkards somehow ends up becoming a rocket scientist…
We must not underestimate the intelligence of children…they are in fact sharp observers from a very young age and they absorb everything they see…often seeing the wrongheadedness of their own parents’ misguided beliefs and ideology…
Let us do our part to nurture the young people in what I see as some very positive directions…
The Partisan representatives went to Zagreb to negotiate with the the Germans, not the Ustashi.
They were flown to Zagreb by a German military transport plane.
The discussion agenda included prisoner exchanges and the Partisan’s proposal for a ceasefire that would allow the Germans and Partisans to focus on fighting the Chetniks.
OK, those negotiations are controversial issue and everyone has his own version
Lets see THE FACTS.
Partisans and Germans exchange prisoners but not completely. About 800 partisan were released.
At that time partisan movement was in very difficult situation. They were constantly attacked by Chetnik forces which never fought Germans Italians and Ustashas but always attacking partisans.
Partisans needed relief and those negotiations were try of buying time. Partisans tried to buy time because at that time Chetniks were supported by British and littlle bit less by Americans. Brits and Americans in 1944 decided to get rid of Draza and Chetniks because they never attacked Germans and Italians and very often collaborated with them.
So Partisan leadership tried to buy time to finish with Chetniks forever.
But negotiations failed and there are nothing to talk about it now. I repeat – NEGOTIATIONS FAILED.
After that Partisans went trough heroic and terrible time with two giant battles aimed by Germans, Italians, Ustashas and with active role of Chetniks on the fascist side to destroy them. Those battles were on Neretva and Sutjeska rivers (Operation Weiss and operation Schwartz), Partisans were almost destroyed but they miraculously survived, and after that become top popular force among people in entire Yugoslavia and Tito and Partisans got out of those battle as heroes and great winners. Completely alone without any help they won after tragic suffering.
On Neretva river they destroyed Chetnik traitors in such a way that Chetniks never recovered from that.
Heroic fighters from all Yugoslav nationalities took part in those battles and they shown beautiful brotherhood and unity. In Sutjeska Germans captured Partisan hospital and killed mercilessly all wounded Partisans.
They were heroes, they were great and they will be remembered forever. And they won. No historical revisionism can change that.
Nationalism destroyed Yugoslavia but cannot destroy historical truth about partisan heroism and sacrifice.
You said it all!
In the movie suggested by Saker, it was said that the Operation Schwartz (Battle of Sutjeska, May-June 1943) was planned to fight the Chetniks; the Chetniks were ‘smart guerrilla fighters’ and they escaped the battle ‘two hours before Germans came’, the Partisans were ‘naïve’ and were encircled and almost destroyed. That’s a big lie. Some Chetniks have escaped (they were chased by the Partisans yet from the Neretva River), but those who didn’t managed to escape didn’t fight the Germans, they simply surrendered! (e.g. Pavle Djurisic and his entire brigade). The Partisans took the battle and were almost destroyed but managed to fight through the Germans lines to freedom. How heroic this battle was shows the fact that among 7,000 dead were 600 doctors and medical staff who didn’t want to leave their wounded comrades. No Partisan surrendered! (Complete Elite Chetnik units did!)
Germans suffered big loses too (500 is not true) because they were not able to continue the offensive. After this battle (along with the advances of the Red Army) it became clear that Partisans would win the war and Chetniks would lose it.
There was another lie: In late 1943, ‘ after victory at Visegrad Draza’s Chetniks took the line Pale-Sarajevo-Mokro’. It never happen! Chetniks were destroyed at Rogatica and near Sokolovici (Smrtici) by the Partisan because, instead of going to Sarajevo, they went towards Partisan stronghold Shekovici and the 3rd Partisan Corps, and were totally defeated. These Chetniks were armed in Serbia with best German arms and had brand new German pass cards! (Poor soldiers, for most of them it was their fist battle (after 3 years of war!)
Sorry Saker, you are on the wrong side of this argument.
Yes, Germans killed all doctors and medical staff together with wounded partisans.
And some people here still claim that Partisans collaborated with Germans.
Such claims are historical perversion. It is blatant lie and it is shame.
“But negotiations failed and there are nothing to talk about it now. I repeat – Negotiations Failed.”
But NOT because the Partisans refused to collaborate.
They failed because the Germans refused the Partisan offer of collaboration.
“In Milovan Djilas’s war-time memoirs, published as Wartime (1977), he confirmed and admitted for the first time that the allegations of Partisan collaboration with the Nazis made by Walter R. Roberts were correct and accurate. The negotiations between the Germans and Tito’s Partisans in fact did take place
Djilas’ account corroborated the Roberts description of the meeting. The meeting occurred when top Partisan commander Koca Popovic conferred at Tito’s headquarters in Bosnia. A German transport plane then took Djilas and Velebit from Sarajevo to Zagreb.
The discussions and negotiations centered around Partisan proposals that the Communist guerrillas would collaborate or cooperate with the Nazis if they were allowed to concentrate on destroying the Chetnik guerrilla forces.
The Partisans anticipated a possible British and American landing in Yugoslavia on the Adriatic Coast similar to the landings in Italy. At that time, Mihailovich was still being backed and supported by the Allies as the primary resistance leader in Yugoslavia. The Partisans feared that an Allied landing in Yugoslavia would ensure a victory for Mihailovich and his Chetnik guerrilla forces.”
I think it’s not accurate to call this meeting with Germans in Zagreb ‘collaboration’. As I understand it, there was a big IF, IF Allied forces invaded Dalmatia THEN the Partisans would fight them (protentional in collaboration with the Germans). The first condition didn’t happen, therefore there were no ‘collaboration’. It was an offer which Hitler rejected because he didn’t want to talk with the ‘bandits’.
With this move Tito bought some time to regroup his troupes before decisive battle with the Italians and the Chetniks in the valley of Neretva. (A move from the Art of War by Sun Wu Tzu. Draza did the same in Serbia at the begging of war in 1941.)
If Allies invaded Dalmatia AND the Partisans did fought along the Germans against them, that would be called COLLABORATION. It didn’t happen. (On the other hand, Draza did exactly that when he coordinated his actions with the Germans in fighting Peko Dapcevic’s partisans in the battle for Serbia in 1944. When they both were defeated in Serbia they fled to Bosnia together.
It was NEGOTIATION Not COLLABORATION.
Negotiations and collaboration are two different things.
Negotiation is normal in all wars.
One another heroic partisan battle from 1943, Battle for Knin in North Dalmatia.
8. Dalmatian Corps (8. Dalmatinski korpus), almost entirely Croatian partisans from Dalmatia, commander was Serbian partisan hero Petar Drapsin against 14 000 Germans, 4500 Chetniks and 1500 ustasha soldiers it was fierce and cruel battle, Knin was maximally fortified fortress.
One more example of Chetnik collaboration with Germans. 677 killed partisans, 126 missing partisans, more than 700 killed partisans, 2439 wounded. They paid high price But they liberated Knin and North Dalmatia and opened way to liberation of Central and North Croatia.
Partisan strategy was to send commanders on duty to different parts of Yugoslavia, Serbian commanders to Croatia and Croatian or Slovenes to Serbia. Petar Drapsin, Serb from Vojvodina was sent to Croatia, Veljko Kovacevic Montenegrian was sent To Gorski Kotar, Croatian commander Stjepan Filipovic was commander in Serbia and died heroically
Or Janko Lisjak, Croat from Zagorje who was organiser of urban guerilla in Serbia in Belgrade.
RAde Koncar ethnic Serb from Croatia was one of the main organizers of urban guerilla in Zagreb.
Mustafa Golubic muslim from Herzegovina, killed by Germans in Belgrade, died heroically.
It was political tactic of Partisan leadership and it worked very well.
“And it is normal thing. I really do not see what is problem with that.”
Even Saker mentioned in one of his (much, much, much better) earlier analyzes that the Russian military is – always negotiating.
Always and with everyone.
Negotiations are also a type of warfare
I have to quote this
“That said, the only conclusion is that he was either a very weak commander or a war criminal himself ( active participant in crime).”
That’s it. Nothing more to say.
I think that he probably did not order COLLABORATION but his people collaborated.
And you mentioned Vranic and other atrocities in Serbia against civilians suspected for supporting partisans.
In this and similar cases I think that Draza is responsible for giving orders.
And yes, for Serbia is the best thing to leave Draza and his Chetniks exactly where they are.
Tito and the Partisans were getting false credit for many successful attacks the Chetniks had against the Germans.
Tito and the Partisans even REOPENED the roads the Chetniks had closed for the Germans when they (Partisans) launched their attacks on Serbia.
The British got the surrendering Venezia division (Italians) who surrendered to the Chetniks to instead join the Partisans.
The British BBC was the main mouthpiece of Tito propaganda.
The few British attached to the Chetniks saw their sabotages against the Germans, with Chetnik help, credited THE VERY NEXT day to the Partisans.
The Partisans could not even fight a frontal battle with the Germans.
Tito was pushed as a big friend to Russia in order to manipulate the Soviets/Russians. He went to them 2 months before they pushed the Germans out of Belgrade and asked if the Partisans could ride in on a victory parade once they did finally get the Germans out.
The Russians agreed and allowed the Partisans to ride in on their tanks into Belgrade even though the Partisans did nothing to get the Germans out of Belgrade.
The Partisans were tools of Brits who wanted Serbs under an occupation and not to be free.
They were fronted as pro-Russian in order to maneuver the Soviets/Russians.
It was also Tito who requested the Soviets/Russians not sent troops into Croatia, and the Russians obeyed because they thought Tito was a big friend.
The British Intelligence knew Russia would be a big player during the end of the war so that is why Tito was even telling his troops that all the weapons were from Russia when 95% of the military aid was from Britain and the U.S.
This is unbelievable. One can only laugh on all of this.
“That said, the only conclusion is that he was either a very weak commander or a war criminal himself ( active participant in crime).”
The very same statement was posted by Truthnotrevisionism at 11:37am !?
Let’s see what some historian Jozo (Croat) thinks about Дража Михајловић and use that as valid argument?!? Ha ha ha…… Well, it would be funny if it’s not pervert.
But let’s start talking what happened to Serbian people in East Bosnia in the summer of 1941, also let’s talk about Muslim atrocities in same region in the period of 1992-1995. Once we list all crimes than and only than we can move on and start talking about Serbian RETALIATIONS, we can talk about what Четникс did in WWII and we can talk about ВРС and Srebrenica and killing 1-2K of Bosnian Muslim Army Members (not civil population, not kids, not women, not elderly).
Key word is retaliation Mr Croat, retaliation.
And you, belonging to clearly (Removed for ethnic hatred that violate the blog rules.MOD)
Thank you sir for this article. I am happy to read you on this subject.
Way back then, my grandfather used to write (under a alias name) books trying, among other things, to keep the memory of Draža and the Chetniks alive. That was under Tito’s rule. These books were secretly printed and had a good success under the radar until his brother, a general, sold him out to the regime hoping for a favor. He was then stripped of his rank (colonel) and his possessions, and was thrown in jail for six and a half years. That was the price to pay back then for doing what you are doing right now: trying to keep the historical record straight.
Regarding Jasenovac, never forget that the Croats were also exterminating small children in great numbers. I don’t think it will be ever forgiven.
It’s the 21 st century. For somebody to talk about monarchy as something desirable sounds at best ridiculous. Makes me laugh and to dismiss the rest as a rambling of a deluded fool.
Thus said, as a Bulgarian, I totally simpatize with him and I wish Bulgaria didn’t sell itself as the cheap whore it is to EU and NATO. But what is done is done, the EU bought Bulgaria with sweet promises and Boiko was specifically chosen because he is an ex commie(personal bodyguard to the past Communist president Zivkov). The Bulgarians are paying for it; they are now the poorest nation in EU, and the gypsies have taken over, crime is rampant and most smart Bulgarians have emigrated.
I have long ago put my faith into THE NEXUS OF POWER theory which proves China and Russia will be the next super world super powers. Short of a nuclear war it is inevitable. It’s coming, no matter what.
Sorry, but Nikolas II WAS a weak nothing, who didn’t care about the poor in Russia. Terrible Poverty was wide spread in Russia during his time. Those are facts. Say what you will against the Communists, but they raised millions out of poverty in every place they rule. Cuba doesn’t have a single starving child, and even the UN confirms that. The ONLY time there were NO homeless and/or beggars in Bulgaria was under Communism. Those are facts. Medical care was given to everyone, while today Bulgaria announced they cannot give proper medical care because the country doesn’t have the money. But it DID have the money to buy useless F-16 from USA for a billion and a half.
Anyway, I say to my Serbian brothers, stay strong, we are willing, those bastards are failing on every front, the EU is collapsing. Soon very soon.
First, I want to most sincerely thank you for not being offended by my characterization of modern Bulgaria. All I can say is that I know the feeling of being ashamed for my fellow Russians, that is a feeling a felt in the 1980s and 1990s. That is also a feeling a lot of my US American neighbors currently also share.
The truth, even when painful, is the truth.
Furthermore, sometimes ONLY a painful truth can wake-up brainwashed, desperate, or deceived people. I happen to think that what Russia STILL needs now, is the total untarnished truth about everything, the good and the bad. I suppose that is the case for all nations.
As for Czar Nicholas II, know am quite aware of the poverty in his times and what he, and his government, especially under Stolypin tried to do about it. I also know what *caused* this poverty (and all the other many problems pre-1917 Russia had). All I will say is a core idea often developed by by Solonevich: monarchy is not a person, it is a system.
As for the Russian Orthodox Church before the revolution it was a very complex mix of future saints and future Sergianists. While things got infinitely worse after 1917, I would argue that already BEFORE 1917 the Russian Orthodox Church was strongly subservient to the state, thus it could not fulfill its role in the “symphony” between Church and state.
If you are interested, I urge you to read the recent books written by Russian historians about the late 18th early 19th century in Russia. A lot of excellent research has already been made about this.
I sincerely (with all my heart!!) wish nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia or Greece a true rebirth and a full recovery of national sovereignty (I have no such hopes for Poland – they are far beyond hope!) and should it ever happen, I am sure that Russians and Serbs will welcome their former brothers with open arms and open hearts.
By the prayers of the many Orthodox saints from these countries, may they one day recover their true identity and potential!
What you wrote makes sense at first glance. However, look at history. The Roman Empire existed for 800 years, because it had centralized authority, while the Byzantine Empire lasted for 1.000 years. The communist system was based on centralized authority. And the US ? A “democracy” ? No way. In Washington DC you will find the HQ of the Freemasons. The commander in chief of all Freemasons is Prince Philip, the husband to the Queen of England. England still rules the US, in conjunction with the Rothschild’s who control the US Fed. The politicians in Congress are nothing more than entertainers, their task to convince the population that they have “democracy” and can somehow change things.
Democracy can be a dangerous system, as you end up with corruption, divisions and chaos. A country needs a master. In the case of Russia this can only be the Tzar. The reason Putin has the backing of the Russian population is because this very same population cannot forget the horrors of Yeltsin’s liberal capitalism. Putin exerts confidence. However, Putin will be in Office until 2024. And then what ? This is what worries me.
I think you have the best comment here by far…
‘Say what you will against the Communists, but they raised millions out of poverty in every place they rule.’
In the Soviet Union they also created a world-leading scientific-technical foundation that is the source of Russia’s military strength to this day…
As for Yugoslavia, it was an amazing and wonderful country which I first visited in the 1980s…today the rump states of Croatia, Serbia etc are less than nothing…they are house niggers to western imperialist parasites…
You make a lot of other good points…that the rotten west is collapsing [it is inevitable] and that the Russia-China Double Helix is visibly pulling in many into its gravitational field…ie Turkey, Pakistan etc…
Russia needs to implement more socialism…the Chinese have arrived at a great balance by fine-tuning the system over the years, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater like the Russians did…
The Chinese government owns the key sectors including banking, energy, the MIC, key industry leaders etc [70 percent of the economy]…entrepreneurship mainly has benefited the street level mom and pop shops which is great…although there are also very large privately owned companies here and there, but they are not allowed to acquire the power of oligarch status…
A lot of Serbians [mostly long-time ex-pats] hate Tito and Yugoslavia…but they are ill-informed and have biased and unrealistic versions of history that have mostly been handed down to them…
If we go back to the early 19’th century, there was a European wide movement towards a new political paradigm, spurred by the French revolution and the Enlightenemnt…
At that time South Slavs were part of obsolete empires like Austria and Ottoman…Italy was not a nation state and neither was Germany…but dozens of small fiefdoms…
The young South Slav intellectuals discovered that they had a common language [unlike even the Germans, whose many regional dialects were often mutually unintelligible…See Slavko Goldstein on this…]
In fact Slavs from Slovenia to Poland to Russia had more linguistically in common than the Germans among themselves…!
Long story short, the South Slavs wanted their freedom and their own nation…TOGETHER…
This was the birth of the Illyrian movement, which actually began in Croatia…
This dream was realized with the founding of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes after the massive loss of life in WW1…
In WW2 a similar tragedy happened [again due to wrangling among the major powers], but the communist Tito was able to salvage Yugoslavia…it could have been a great country today, were it not for the revanchist western powers that basically adopted Hitler’s goal of Drang Nach Osten…
Today’s Empire is really nothing more than the Fourth Reich…they crushed Yugoslavia, which even Hitler was not able to do…
Given a couple of more generations, the Illyrian dream would have gelled…as the South Slav people intermarried and rejected religious fanaticism…I saw it myself in the 1980s…had the country been left in peace, not a single Yugoslav would raise a hand against another today…
Recent polls across the former Yugoslavia show that people think it has only got worse since the Yugoslav era…curiously even in Slovenia the result is a majority…only in Croatia the nays outnumber the yeas by about two to one…
Most Serbs by far recognize that Yugoslavia life was better…it’s only the longtime expats who have these extreme nationalistic views…Mihailovitch was indeed an extreme nationalist and certainly a war criminal who sided even with the Ustasha at times…
i think it is better to build bridges than to tear them down…
I am not Serb but I think that Federal Yugoslavia was much better than his situation today.
Such state was the best solution for all Ex-YU peoples and ethnic groups.
When Yugoslavia collapsed all three sides in Bosnia and Herzegovina were pushed to gran as many territories possible and all resulted in bloody fraternal ethnic war.
I do not know if Yugoslavia is to be established ever again, but while these nationalism exist as it is, any Yugoslavia is simply not possible.
Problem is that young generations are pushed in hatred. And I can say that it is very positive to see that it does not have always such consequences because young generations show that they are not in majority poisoned with that.
Of course there are negative cases, but situation is not that bad. And cultural exchange is very important. Young people from different republics and regions of Ex-YU love each other music, films, books, they meet on the seaside and talk and socialize … That give me hope…
But problems are so-called political elites which see their political survival and benefits in causing conflicts and hatred.
And unfortunately I have to say that clergy from all three main religions have very bad and negative role in Ex-Yugoslavia.
Re Bosnian Croat – I am currently living in Zagreb and have been here for the last 11 years and what you have stated is 100% correct!
I am half Croat half not,but feel same way. Yugoslavia was much much much better than what we have today
You said also:
“…A lot of Serbians [mostly long-time ex-pats] hate Tito and Yugoslavia…but they are ill-informed and have biased and unrealistic versions of history that have mostly been handed down to them…”
For me, it is even more unbelievable that some people still believe this nonsense.
I mean even today, when *ocean* of original german documents are available openly for research!
Russia was on the ascent before WWI. That is one reason why Germany wanted to start WWI. It wanted to attack Russia before it got too strong and got up its railway system.
“I have read the minutes of the Austrian cabinet meeting which decided on the ultimatum and it is quite obvious that they intended it to be unacceptable to any country. In fact, Austria had been spoiling for a fight with upstart Serbia for ten years.
The Imperial German government had, in effect, given Austria a”blank cheque” of support for dealing with Serbia which would bring Russia into the war.
It is often forgotten that, at the time, the Russian economy was booming rather like China has done recently and the German General Staff thought it would be easier to defeat Russia sooner rather than later, when it would have completed its railway system and modernized its infrastructure.” Edward Spalton
As for Cuba – well Macedonian police just arrested 2 Cuban illegal migrants yesterday around its border with Greece.
There have been Cuban migrants in the Balkans – Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, BiH – so for a country that you claim is doing good – then why are they tromping through, and hence aggravating and burdening, the war impoverished former Yugoslav territories?
Any argument that uses words “it is the 21st century” as a premise begs the question and leads me to dismiss what follows as it deserves.
Thank you brother for your kind support. This is very painful topic for most of us, as Serbian history for the last 500 years is mostly struggle against various oppressors, starting with Ottomans and culminating with WW1 and WW2 when more than half of Serbian population was killed or died of hunger or diseases.
On top of all, communist (unnecessary expletive removed by me, The Saker) further divided Serbian people like so, today we have three new zio-nations; Macedonian, Milogorci (called after MIlo Djukanovic, leader/mafia boss of Montenegro) and Bosnjaks (mostly Serbs converted by Turks to Islam).
I wish to congratulate you for your lovely article “Drazha Mikhailovich: the man upon which the future Serbia will be rebuilt!”
Mikhailovich, Makhno, Durruti, Kennedy, Nathon Hale, Pearse, & Connolly, and so many others have given their blood for Liberty.
Freedom is not free. It must be paid for.
Emotion, courage, spiritualism, patriotism, and honor, are the values that, in the long run, allow us to resist the Anglo Zionist Oligarchs’ New World Order.
My hope is for a Restored American Republic, to replace the one assassinated (along with our last Constitutional President, John F. Kennedy, in a hail of bullets, in the Coup D’état of November 22, 1963,
Despite our differences, I have learned more from reading your articles & the others posted on your website, than from any other website, or information source.
alias – Dr. Peter J. Antonsen
At the beginning of your essay, 3rd or 4th paragraph, you mention that Russians owe a great debt to Serbs.
If it wasn’t rooted in sincere and tragic events, this would make me laugh.
If not for the ultimate sacrifice of the Russian Czar and the Russian people, there would be no Serbia today. We, Serbs, owe our very survival to
2. Russian brothers and sisters
3. Greek brothers and sisters
We owe Russia more than we can ever pay back.
What your post proves to me is that we are still fundamentally not only brothers, but Christian brothers:
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Kindest, brotherly, greetings my friend!
On 1and 2 I wholeheartedly agree but when it comes to this gratitude to the Greeks I must say Serbs are more than naive. Do Serbs realize that
the term Slav is a derogatory one used by Greeks. This supposed brotherly love from the Greeks is 100 % false. Their only goal through this false friendship is to keep Macedonia. By “sucking up” to the Serbs and even the Russians their only intention is to find “friend’s” to ensure they maintain their occupation of Macedonia – a land which is not Greek and does not belong to them
When they refer to indigenous Macedonian as Slavs they are basically referring to them as pigs. And that my friend is what they think of Serbs, Russians and all Slavic people. Their politics and friendship is two-faced. Yes, Macedonian and Serbs have our issues but I assure you when Macedonians say Serbs are our brothers, the intention is genuine. And to top it all off, both our countries are run by fools which only gives more ammo to both the Greeks and the West.
Slav comes from Latin. During SPQR any slaves brought to the capital from anexed territories were called slavoi, sklaboi, sklaveni. Many centuries later, around 18-19 c after the Germans came up with the pangermanic theory, the Russian imperialist came up with the idea of panslavism. So as you see this is yet another tool propping imperialism and dividing the people. Theater of the Absurd!
“Slav comes from Latin.”
I doubt that very much.
Most Slav peoples had no contact with the Romans and yet all refer to themselves as Slavs.
It is quite possible however that Slavonic and Latin both evolved from a common Proto Indo-European language.
Here is an example of similarity between Slavic ( Russian ) and Latin posted on another forum ( thank you dave55 ):
Latin: Fur videt novam domum. Mater sedet tres noctes.
Russian: Vor vidit novy dom. Mat’ sidit tri nochi.
English: The thief sees the new house. The mother sits for three nights.
it is neither ‘Slav’ nor ‘Latin’.
Of all slavic languages (please correct me if someone knows better) , only croatians refer to themselves as SLAVENI.
In Serbs it is SLOVENI
Among Russians the same, except ‘o’ after a consonant is pronounced as ‘a’.
therefore, you have countries with names such as SLOVENIA, SLOVAKIA.
word SLOVO means ‘letter’ as in letters in the alphabet. From that basic meaning many other are derived throughout evolution of Slavic languages that do not stem from Latin.It is fair to assume that one of the the largest ethnic trunk on European continent is actually Slavic and people belonging to these groups did not find it a problem in understanding each other’s speech over times immemorial – therefore S l O v e n i as a common name.
Just think about it: why would Russians as for an example have to adopt a Latin word to refer to their own cultural corpus? i.e Roman legions never conquered Russia.
Best wishes in your etymological pursuit.
“Just think about it: why would Russians as for an example have to adopt a Latin word to refer to their own cultural corpus? i.e Roman legions never conquered Russia.”
It’s definitely not of Latin origin for that very reason.
I’m actually amazed at how many non-Slavs suppose that Slavs had no name for themselves until the Romans came along and named them Slaves.
The Slavs were apparently so happy to finally have a name for themselves. They often even named their sons the same:
“What shall we name him darling?”
“Well, I was thinking that we give him a joyous name. A name of good fortune.
How about we name him Slava like that word for slave that the Romans use?”
And you’re correct to say that the word SLOVENI is more widely used among Slavs than SLAV.
But I would argue that Slav is also a Slavic word:
Yugoslavia, Bratislava, Slava ( Serbian Family Saint’s Day ) slava ( celebration ) Slava ( boys name )
Slavia ( Prague football team ) etc.
in our languages i.e that many foreign entities ‘refer to as slavic’ or ‘slavonic’ words SLOVO and SLAVA
have separate meanings:
SLOVO = letter as in alphabet, azbuka
SLAVA = glory, celebration
hope this helps
best wishes, lb
The origin of the word comes from Latin and stipulates all kind of people (from different territories and ethoses) who were brought to Rome/other big cities as a slaves. Even Spartak was sklaboi. The people in Eastern and Central Europe started to refer to themselves as Slavonic because Kingdom of Bulgaria broke the church pentarchy and started sending all church literature translated in Slavonic (which was the Bulgarian language norm back in 9c) to all places which didn’t want to play with Rome or Constantinopole. This is the only link between so called Slavic people. The theory which unites all people from those territories was invented in 18c as a counter to the theory of pangermanism. Those are the facts.
The term ‘sclavus’ to designate people in bondage was unknown at Rome. The usual terms were ‘servus’ or ‘verna’. The term ‘sclavus’ is medieval and was derived from the Slav prisoners. ‘Sklavenos’ was an ethnonym.
with all due respect but ‘sclavis’ is a far cry from SLOVEN.
the Romans referred to the as Schiavi because they used them for unpaid labourers.
ie. etymologically, word SOVO,SLOVENI does not stem fro Latin.
p.s. Romans did not name the neighbouring peoples, they had already named themselves. They kept on distorting the name – that can be accepted surely.
Spot on. Nobody mention a ethnic cleansing of Serbs by Greeks in North Greece. Changing of last names and tomonyms to sound more “Greek”.
Sorry Ivan you must mean the ethnic cleansing of Macedonians in Greek-occupied Macedonia from 1913 onwards.
It could be intentional, Makedonia, as some Serbs do not recognise a Macedonian identity. Otherwise, you are 100% correct, Ive never known why Serbs completely overlook the Greek derogatory use of “Slav” in relation to Macedonians, yet claim to love Serbia/Russia. You are also correct when you say that Macedonians are closest to Serbs in the region. Our similarities are greater then conflicts.
Truth is on our side.
I discovered the story of Drazha, leader of the Chetniks, when I was still quite young, through my maternal grandmother, who also taught me about religion. At first I wasn’t sure if Drazha was real or not. I remember asking my father about him and he would just roll his eyes… My father, bless his soul, was a die-hard communist and his own parents, also 100% ethnic Serbs, actually fought with the Partisans.
My father often complained that my maternal grandmother was filling my head with “fairytales”. In an way, he was right: The real-life story of Drazha IS the stuff of myths and fairytales.
I cannot help but think, what would have been if he had lived? This is where one has to trust that, even when bad things happen, when bad people win, this is God’s will, and God sees all injustices.
Drazha Mihailovic… his name was never shouted on the rooftops, his grave was never venerated.. and yet his story keeps being told. .. his legend just keeps getting bigger…
I agree with you. But don’t underestimate the power of fairy-tales, that is of myth. Myth and mythical characters build nations. You can see that in much of our states neighborhood there is not even a genuine myth, but blatant theft.
Draza is a mythical figure, for his stance was epic, and his endurance stoic. Just as Serbs colectivelly chose the sanctity of afterlife over the worldly in 1389, Mihailovic chose struggle over compliance. Compliance is bs, and anything worthwhile comes from a struggle. And he did it when it was not popular, when it bought him no friends and at the ultimate cost to himself.
Our country will regain strength through Drazha’s death. It has always been like that for us.
Speaking of Serbia, Peter Handke, outspoken opponent of NATO/America’s “humanitarian” bombing and dismemberment of Yugoslavia, has won the 2019 Nobel Prize of Literature:
“Bombing of Serbia Disgusts Me”: Once Hounded Because of Serbs and Justice, Now the Nobel Winner
Thank you for the link. May God bless Peter Handke! A brilliant scholar, writer and obviously, an even better human being.
What a rare event, for a man/woman of such courage and honesty, to be rewarded, in a world, ruled by evil and insatiable greed.
Comment to Anonymous:
Peter Handke – despite his Nobel prize – is still some sort of persona non grata within the Austrians in general (same as Elfriede Jelinek). And I think this will be true for Germans in general too.
He has been totally “neglected” since he wrote his book about Serbia, some sort which didn’t fit into the “political correctness” and this stands still up till today.
An individual who “allows” himself to write some critique especially concerning USA and NATO in Europe and more so in Germany and Austria, maybe in Switzerland, Netherland and Belgique as well Denmark too had and still has to be aware that she/he will be “starved”. Its the community too acting in the same manner and more so the MSM. Unfortunately. Not necessarily murdered as an intellectual, just “starved” and totally neglected. And some are even put/shown in a total unacceptable and wrong point of view/light.
Russia has indebted Serbia forever in 1914. Russia literally took a bullet for Serbia when it didn’t have to and the Serbs can only hope to ever be able to repay that debt. That is more then a debt, it is a bond. Serbs taking Russians in with open arms after the Bolshevik purge is the least we could do, and it benifited us greatly in all spheres. The history goes back much more but in that, for Serbia, crucial moment Russia was there. If not Sebs would have been effectively genocided off the face of the planet in the war with Austria (who we actually stunned with major victories) and Germany combined. I’m sure of that, even in victory Serbs lost 30 percent of the population, the defeat would have been the total and complete genocide ala the Taino people.
That being said there are still many indoctrinated Serbs, even in the “elites” that have a negative stance on Russia. They falsely state that Russia never stood with us. It is such an inverse of reality that a thick book debunking these lies can be easily written by anyone with a half of a functioning brain.
Anyway I know that Serbia will rise and recognize itself again. It will take decades more, even centuries, but it will happen. This is why I moved back here and am raising my own family here even though I’ve been holding a Canadian citizenship for 30 years. This is my small part in it and every day I’m happier for it.
Serbia has a Putin, or maybe more precisely a Zhirinovsky, in the form of a true national hero who single handidly defeatet the Empire after 12 years as a political prisoner of the kangaroo court in the Hagues. I’m talking about Vojislav Šešelj, but his achievements aren’t recognized and he sadly remains a marginal political figure. Future generations of Serbs will look at his remarkable achievement in disbelief that such a figure was passed over for favourable relations with the EU. Any law student would better himself tremendously by watching Šešelj utterly dismantle the Hagues tribunal, and he did so in amusing fashion.
There is a Čentik saying “Alive is Draža, he’s not dead, while there are Serbs and Serbia” and he is, more and more each day.
I agree with TruthNotRevisionism.
To better understand Chetniks and their ideology please read The Chetniks by American Prof. Jozo Tomasevich, who had at his disposal all American and German sources and documents related to WWII in Yugoslavia, and ‘Draza – Istina o cetnicima’ (Draza – the Truth about Chetniks’) by Dr. Dusan Stupar, who wrote it only based on Chetniks’ documents from WWII. There you’ll see that Draza Mihajlovic was a weak commander and incompetent person to deal with the war problems in Yugoslavia. His Chetniks committed horrible war crimes in Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina and for that reason he was tried and executed. (Even his ‘rehabilitation’ was done on technicalities of the process and the court didn’t treat his war crimes for which he was found guilty. (And I’m sure we could agree that Hollywood movies couldn’t be a valuable historical source.)
So, General Draza Mihajlovic, had a chance to become a Serbian hero but he dropped the ball. The destiny of the Karadjordjevic dynasty depended on him and his Chetniks, he failed, the Chetniks failed, the dynasty failed. His last chance to save the dynasty was the king Peter’s order from London to come under command of Marshal Tito, Draza didn’t obey. Etc.
He was a Serb patriot and royalist, who buried the monarchy.
In heart he was an anti-fascist, but his two best commanders (Djurisic, and Lalatovic (?)) were awarded Iron Cross by German Army; his political follower from Split, Jevdjevic, in Rome participated in planning of the Operation Schwartz along with highest German, Italian and Ustasha generals. Over 60% of Chetnik commanders in NDH had agreements about cooperation with the Croatian Ustasha regime, etc.
For personal participation in the Operation Schwartz on the side of Italians, Germans and Ustashas, General Mihajlovic and his Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland were expelled from the Allied Forces! (No greater shame for Kingdome of Yugoslavia he could brought).
During the war the Serbs rejected Draza and all these nowadays tries to bring him back as a Serb hero are wrong. (These tries are part of the current revision of the WWII by the war losers.)
There are some politicians in Serbia (not many) who would like to bring back the Karadjordjevic dynasty, represented by prince Aleksandar Karadjordjevic, son of late king Peter II. It is pathetic. The guy who pretend to become Serbian king, for one, didn’t bother to learn Serbian, and for two, he begged Americans and NATO to bomb Serbia (Yugoslavia) in 1999 (Larry King Show)!
What you said for Russia’s future I believe would be valid for Serbia, too.
1) A pseudo-monarchy will be a disaster for Serbia
2) A secular but patriotic regime is MUCH better for today’s Serbia, much better.
3) There shall never be another Orthodox monarchy again
and as 4) Serbs should find a way to unite their territories.
Chetniks collaborated but however I think that he did not give approval for that.
But Chetniks fractured and divided in many various groups and fractions which acted independently from Draza.
He did not have control over his movement despite the fact that all of them claimed that they are under his command.
Many units did not have communication with each other. So we cannot talk about chetniks as united military force.
First, Kosta Pecanac was completely out of control and became Draza’s open opponent and he was killed. He was the first to collaborate with Germans.
In Croatia, commander Momcilo Djuic acted completely on his own, collaborated openly with Italians and later with Germans and with Ustasha regime.
In Montenegro, Pavle Djurisic was open German collaborator and he was decorated with Iron Cross for that.
Commander Dobrosav Jevdjevic took part in Operation Weiss And Operation Schwartz against Partisans with Germans, Italians and Ustashas
And etc, etc, etc …
How much is Draza responsible for all of this I do not know and it is not important issue any more.
He had historical chance and he did not succeed.
And that ‘s it.
That’s true. Nobody’s perfect, but in hindsight of history during the war Draza made some big mistakes, wrong decisions and consequently he lost. On the other hand, Tito made less bad decisions, much more good ones and he won. End of story. Saker is wrong in arguing to build the future of Serbia on a failed loser!
Tito not only won the war, but also built Yugoslavia ‘as a very good country where people lived well’ (NYT), and he deserve our respect and gratitude. He was an extraordinary leader because he was able to find good solutions in very complicated situations of his time. Our time is different now … a new leader is wanted.
The court that rehabilitated Drazha Mihailovich did not seek to determine whether or not he was guilty, but whether or not he received a fair trial in 1946. The answer to that was a resounding no. This has obviously upset a lot of people who were Partisans, since their group is now (indirectly) responsible for this miscarriage of justice.
The issue of Drazha’s guilt was already dealt with by historians (and the international accolades and medals that were awarded to Drazha posthumously).
Just for the record, my father and my entire paternal side of the family were Partisans. I have witnessed many Partisans vs Chetnik discussions within my own family. My own personal opinion is that 1. The Partisans were not the only resistance force against the Nazis, and no amount of slander against the Chetniks is going to change that. 2. The Partisans made a HUGE mistake by executing Drazha Mihailovic. I guess they had to kill him because he had such a large following… But what has happened now? Drazha has become a mythical person, a romantic hero in Serbia. A lot of is due to his own merits, but also because of the way in which he died.
Partisans were only resistance movement in Yugoslavia.
And when we talk about Chetniks please tell me ONE SINGLE STRATEGIC BATTLE that Chetniks fought against germans, Italians and other collaborators.
According to German sources Mihajlović’s Četnici for a long time were the only military force which fought two or three open (frontal) battles against the Germans in late spring to early summer 1941. But by being heavily defeated they were forced to changed their strategy. Partisani started openly attacking the Germans when they were already retreating from the Balkans. But it’s true that Partisani did a lot of guerilla (hit and run) attacks. (Check my detailed comment at the end of the comment section).
“… According to German sources …”
Can you provide a link to your data sources?
According to my source of information (and I have already provided it several times) –
Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic (DM Chetniks), after only a few months and a few smaller quarrels with the Germans (which they lost) at the end of 1941 –
totally moved to the occupying side, fighting against partisans (who were over 90% filled with Serbs).
The Chetniks were practically a diffuse movement characterized by only two features:
1. Non existence of a central command, and constant clashes (of a bandit nature) between the Chetnik formations themselves, while fighting the partisans on German/Italian order.
2. Total subordination to German (Italian) occupation authority – including Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic (or “DM Chetniks” in German documents).
The documents I have linked to are the original documents of the German army and are also available in paper form. And there is a really huge number of original German documents throughout the period 1941-1945 that just confirm these two points.
We need to look at the facts, it’s not about slandering someone. Give me the facts and I’ll know to draw conclusions.
The Partisans are being vilified and Draza is being glorified now by some groups and media in order to cover enormous pillage of the economy built by the Partisans. And radical Serb nationalists (today’s Chetniks) are accusing Tito and Partisans for everything they didn’t do when they had a power (king Aleksandar, Chetniks, etc)
You are absolutely right my friend.
I do not intend to argue with anyone and I am just going to say something about this.
I do not know how many American pilots were saved by Chetniks
First, only ONE force fought against nazis, fascists and all collaborators in former Yugoslavia were Yugoslav partisans led by KPJ – Communist Party of Yugoslavia.
Chetniks – well, they were and they are nationalists extremists and Yugoslavia under such ideology could not exist. Former Kingdom of Yugoslavia was brutal Serbian oppression against all other peoples in Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
Second, Draža Mihailović did not want to take fight against Germans and in that case he was right. German answer on any resistance in Serbia was extremely brutal, 50 Serbs killed for every German soldier and 100 for every German officer. So, after first actions against Germans, Chetniks and Draza decided to wait and partisans decided to withdraw over Drina river, to Bosnia and to start resistance there. Bosnia was part of so-called Independent State of Croatia – NDH, which was Hitler’s satellite.
But later chetniks divided in various different units and groups. They collaborated with Italians and very often with Germans. Draza proclamed strategy of waiting for western allies to came and to liberate all Yugoslavia and King Peter II to return.
But partisans were fighting actively and heroically and they took power under Josip Broz Tito.
All that chetniks did were doing nothing, very often collaborating with Italians and Germans and doing terrible crimes against civilians especially Bosnian muslims and also Croats but less than muslims.
Very often they commited war crime against those Serbs which did not support and follow them.
Ideology of Chetniks is extreme militant nationalism and any multiethnic state or federation cannot exist under such ideology.
Not any nation or ethnic group in Ex Yugoslavia will accept something like that. Even Montenegrians.
Such ideology can only cause inter- divisions and inter-conflicts in Montenegro and even in Serbia.
After radical nationalism was established as official ideology in Serbia under Milosevic and later and generally among Serbs, Yugoslavia had to collapse and breakup.
Serbia can revive chetnik ideology as a sort of patriotic national tradition but in that case cannot count on good relationship with surrounding ex-Yugoslav republics, and not only them.
One advice to Russians – Russia is supposed to have good relations with Serbia and to support Serbia, because Serbia is under constant western pressure. Not because West have something against Serbs
as Serbs, but West and America see Serbs as a sort of Russia’s agents, a tool for Russian penetration into Balkan region.
BUT, Russia has to stay away of any Balkan nationalism, including Serbian of course, because it is very dangerous, it is live mud.
So good relations are OK, support is OK, but Russia has to stay away from that live mud.
If Russia for example establish Russian such radical nationalism as official ideology inside Russia, it would be beginning of end of Russian Federation. It would cause harsh conflicts and inter-ethnic relations would deteriorate to hell very fast. Similar to what happened in ex-Yugoslavia.
I know that Putin and his team know this and they do everything possible to preserve multi-ethnic and multi-confessional spirit of Russian federation and Russian society.
It is not always easy but it is only way to preserve normal development of Russian Federation.
Can you remind me, Bosnian Croat, what is Croatia doing to preserve the multiethnic and multi confessional spirit of it’s nation/state? That is apart from harassing remaining Serbs and preventing others from returning to their homes and property? You are long on advice to the Serbs, that is despite this huge elephant in the room – the true and horrific genocide against the Serbian people, by the catholic Croats, which continues unabated ever since the WWII. You think this is something that should be overlooked, while you are ranting against nationalist Serbs. Milosevic (a true hero) stood up against this harassment when it was really difficult to do so. When the Yugoslav institutions were infested by the communist sleaze bags from betraying republics, such as Slovenia and Croatia, who were already one foot out of the door. And he fought valiantly in Kosovo, with then Serbian Yugoslav army. And he fought even more valiantly for ten years while imprisoned in Hague. Just being in Hague should give him a hero status. And for you and the rest of the world. We, Serbs, accepted Yugoslavia together with you in it, regardless of everything you did to us (meaning Croats). You never did.
It is not topic here. I will just say that historical revisionism is big problem in entire ex-Yugoslavia.
And if you consider Milosevic as a hero we have notiNg to discuss about then. When he took power in the Serbian Communist Party IN S EPTEMBER 1987 after Party Coup then the time of disaster stroke Yugoslavia.
All normal people were removed from Party leadership and Milosevic started his nationalist rule.
The Rest is history.
Bosnian Croat I have to disagree with you here…
Blaming Milosevic for the destruction of Yugoslavia is absurd…for the simple reason that the destruction of Yugoslavia was a deliberate project of the west…
Let’s look at the FACTS…the Bush 1 administration put in place only loans to Yugoslav republics NOT the central government…this was several years before the actual successions of Slovenia and Croatia…
The IMF followed suit…this was economic warfare with a single aim…the destruction of Yugoslavia…
Also the timeline of events…we note that the Slovenian and Croat secessions followed directly on the heels of the breakup of the Soviet Union…the swift recognition by Germany, without taking into account considerable Serb minorities in Croatia was almost designed to cause trouble…
Milosevic and the Serbs were universally demonized in the western media, while Tudjman and Izetbegovic who were certainly no better [probably worse in terms of extremist nationalism] were sympathized…
For us people of the west, the Yugoslavia project marked the beginning of the establishment elite and corporate media’s power to literally impose fake narratives on the people…much to our detriment…
After the dismemberment of Yugo, we had the fake WMD narrative and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan…later the destruction of Libya and then Syria…which has only been stopped by Russian intervention…
Remember Karl Rove’s infamous dictum…
Is this the word we want to live in…?
The fact is that Yugoslavia was a dress rehearsal for all the imperialist crimes that have happened since…Milosevic was just the designated scapegoat…nothing more, nothing less…
When Serbs embraced radical nationalism under Milosevic and rejected Tito’s socialist legacy, it was THE END of Yugoslavia.
And when Serbian generals and officers supported openly Milosevic and his strategy in 1989, it was THE END of federal Yugoslav Army which turned into Serbian Army.
Of course, all other officers and generals from other nationalities could not stay in such Army and they left.
And of course Serbian nationalist pressure triggered nationalism of other nationalities …
And the rest is History.
Look, you have introduced both, the topic and Milosevic. If you don’t want to discuss it, don’t wright in the first place.
Of course that both, topic and Milosevic, are closely connected to Mihailovic rehabilitation. Both, Mihailovic and Milosevic are symbols of restoration of Serbian dignity, and not nationalism as you falsely claim. Other nationalities in Serbia, at the time, lived just fine (unlike in runaway, scared to death Croatia). The fact that Serbs managed to lose the dignity quickly (again) by overthrowing him and send him to prison is another topic. Both Mihailovic and Milosevic are victims of demonisation by jesuit/masonic/trockyte (Tito was a trockyte) cabal, whose latest ideological incarnation (neoliberalism) has already been exposed for what it is -a tool of subjugation and control of nations and people for the purpose of plunder by European elites. Milosevic stood up to it and paid the price for not having a single friend to support him (catch the parallel to Mihailovic?). His failure to stop bombing of Serbia and terrible treatment (murdered in Hague) however did wake up Russia. The rest is, as you put it, history.
Unfortunately Russia did NOT help Serbia rebuilt during the very critical time after NATO bombing stopped.
I can understand Russia not being able to interfere once NATO started bombing to prevent a possible WWIII, but Russia not helping a brutalized Serbia left it more vulnerable to the western-backed opposition movement to install a western traitorous sell-out regime.
Russia seems very standoffish towards Serbia in general. Ideally foreign powers shouldn’t meddle. However, with such heavy, heavy, heavy meddling and abuse by many western states against Serbia, Serbia need a strong back up and some genuine counter-action against this.
I think Russia could have greatly delayed or thwarted the western-puppet takeover if it had done more to help Serbia right after the NATO bombing and if it had done more to counteract the west – including more research and exposure of its lies.
VVP only came to power in July 1999, after the NATO bombing, and he had his hands with full cleaning up the mess in Russia. Before that there was Yeltsin and Kozyrev but they were never going to help us.
“While the Mihailovic units were engaging the Germans, they were attacked in the rear 5 times by Partisan units from the direction of Ivanjica-Arilje-Pozega. The Russian liaison officers observed these attacks but did nothing to prevent them.”
“After the battle the Home Army [Serb forces] turned over to the Russians 4,500 German prisoners, 200 vehicles, and much other booty.”
“The following day the Russians began to disarm the Home Army soldiers. Some of them succeeded in escaping, some did not. In early December the Partisans managed to locate Captain Rokovic in his hideout and surrounded him. Either they executed him or he committed suicide. In any case, his body was placed on display in the marketplace in Čačak.”
“What makes a serious assessment all the more difficult is the fact that very few of the actions claimed by the Parisans were witnessed by British or American liaison officers.” – David Martin “The Web of Disinformation: Churchill’s Yugoslav Blunder” p.264
“Why is that so important? Because you cannot rebuild a civilization on fuzzy, lukewarm and otherwise uninspiring models. I would even argue that any action needs to be predicated on a solid spiritual/ideological basis to be meaningful (you just don’t do meaningful things just to do them, our most important actions are often just means towards a higher goal).”
Might it be why… despite everything the US did to Cuba, they could never get to Castro and Cuban medicine is the most advanced, natural and effective to combat every biological crap thrown on it for… 60 years? I read, years ago (more like decades ago) in France, that Russian doctors used to travel to Cuba to learn from it about plants and effective and inexpensive treatments from almost everything (forget about finding anything about it on internet: it’s long been squashed).
Will Castro ever be recognized for having brought Cuba’s population a few notches up from when the US were pillaging the Island? Probably not, not anymore than Chavez and Maduro helped their population by fighting to keep the country’s resources and trying to invest them into the people. Probably not more than what Ghaddafi had managed to bring to Libya.
All we need to do is look at the countries the West attacks the most and the leaders it demonizes the most: they all have inspiring leaders looking for ways out of the Western model. Rather than demonize them, shouldn’t we learn from them?
The Chetniks were HEAVILY sabotaged by the Brits, who were meanwhile heavily supporting the Partisans. The British and the Americans were very generous with weapons and military aid to the Partisans, while they only gave the Chetniks a small amount in the beginning (probably just enough to trick them while they were spied on).
When reading the following, I have to wonder why the Chetniks didn’t realize how sabotaging most all the Brit liaison officers were and didn’t kick them out.
“on at least two separate occasions the Chetniks were in a position to take the surrender of entire Italian divisions. In each case, the British liaison officer asked them to wait until he had received directives from headquarters. The Chetniks waited, but no directives came. In the first case, after waiting several days for orders, a German division came along and disarmed the Italians. In the other case, Voya Lukachevich had taken the surrender of the Italian Venezia Division after a bloody battle with the Germans. But having taken their surrender, Lukachevich was informed by Colonel Bailey that he could not permit the disarmament of the Italians without permission from headquarters. While he was waiting for an answer from Cairo, Lukachevich deployed his forces for attacks on other German concentrations, leaving the Venezia Division, still armed, in its barracks under Chetnik guards. The Partisans were quick to seize the opportunity. Peko Dapchevich, whom Partisan legend has built up as the greatest of Tito’s commanders, at this point attacked the towns which had only a few days previously been liberated by the Chetniks, overcame the small Chetnik garrisons, and, without troubling to ask Cairo for permission, proceeded to disamr the Venezia Division.”
Re: “The Chetniks were HEAVILY sabotaged by the Brits, who were meanwhile heavily supporting the Partisans.”This was happening after the Teheran Conference at which main allies (S,T, C) decided to stop considering Draza’s Chetniks (YAinF) as an ally in the Anti-Hitlerian coalition, and gave full support to Tito’s partisans. This decision was based on the reports of the British military missions about military value of the Chetniks and the Partisans!
The WWII was a massive and heroic Anti-Fascist of endeavour. Tito and his Partisans played an important role in it, Draza and his Chetniks had his chance and did it wrong. (This is history.)
Instead of slandering Partisans and trying to make Chetniks victorious, let’s find and publish every fight any Chetnik detachment or unit fought against Germans and Italians and give them due respect and public recognition to those freedom fighters.
In Tito’s time we learned about big battles the Partisans fought against Germans at Uzice, Kozara, Neretva, Sutjeska, … 13. july, Drvar, liberation of Belgrade, the Srem Front, etc. What big Chetniks’ anti-fascist battles against Germans or Italians, were ignored. Let’s talk about them now! Please!
I am Serbian. All of my family were with partisans.
But, I realized that chetniks were demonized victims of the communist tyrants when I was 13 years old, back in 1989., and since that time I prefer Mihailovic to Tito.
I truly love Russia and our common history and brotherhood, but I do not believe in Orthodox faith.
Hope that the future union of Russia and Serbia will truly be the union of all Slavs, including even Poland and Croatia.
It should be based on this great wave of revival of the ancient Slavic pagan religion, which is completely ignored everywhere including even here, by The Saker, (litlle over a million Russians declared themselves Slavic pagans recently). To repeat: the future union of the Slavs should not be based on the ideology of different Judeo-Christian sects, which include Orthodox religion and Catholic religion.
Everybody has right to have some sort of dream. And political opinion. Millions of Slavic pagans have their dream: the return to the very heart of our identity – the ancient Slavic heathenism.
Yes, many Serbs changed shirts and turned to Chetnik side in 1989 and couple years earlier. It was time when Milosevic ruled and started nationalist revival among Serbs. And it was beginning of the end of Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia was created to be the source of instability. Just like the Soviet Union. Balkans now is so flamable that anyone can use it for escalation. Balkans is a tool, just like the Ukrain, or Georgia is a tool for the globalist.
Worse day in Serbian history is December 1St, the day this Yugoslavia is created. Just 20 years later, Serbs were beeing exterminated, Jasenovac, Jadovno, Glina church massacre (that one is trully morbid),they even had children camp called Jastrebarsko…
It was systemic, state approved, extermination. And by state, I mean Croatia. Meaning, Croats were receiving salaries for murder. And the murders were public, in the squares, on the streets.
And these are the facts. It was extermination, fully approved by the Croation state and people.
So what shall we do about Croats? Any idea?
Full scale revenge, when the time is right? “An eye for an eye”? Murder of one million Croats?
Or should we live like we do now,, neighbors who hate each other?
Or should we reunite? On one condition, for example, extermination of Catholic religion among Croats?
Or should, we as Saker once suggested, unite only Serbian lands (Serbia, Republika Srpska, Montenegro and Kosovo in one and indivisible Serbian Federation), and build a Chinese wall towards Croatia?
So what shall we do about Croats? Any idea?
Pretend they don’t exist, as much as it is possible. Besides, they are a terrible reminder of how low a Serb can fall.
Our job is to continue to struggle to stay orthodox, no metter what. I dont see any other way to preserve true freedom, but the way of genuine christianity. And there lies the danger, because the croats will be again used against us.
So, the wall would also be great.
True. I agree as a Serb that it was Milosevic who irresponsibly started the events which led to the destruction of Yugoslavia.
However, there some other facts: Milosevic was a communist and former banker in New York. We truly cannot know what he was doing in 1982. and 1983. when he was a representative of one of the leading Yugoslav banks in New York. We know, for example, that he met with David Rockefeller. Their meeting was described by Borka Vucic, one of his closest associates. According to her, Rockefeller stated in public that “Milosevic will have a bright future.” But there are obviously other things happening there which we do not know about.
One more thing. Those of us in Serbia who sympatized with the Chetniks in late eighties and the beginning of nineties were NOT voting for Milosevic! Our leader was Vuk Draskovic, who lost elections to Milosevic in December 1990. by 3 200 000 votes to 800 000.
Anyway, we should think about the future. If there is ever going to be some kind of new Yugoslavia it must be based on pan-Slavic radical nationalism.
It is my dream. I know there there is less than 1% chances that it will happen at least not in the next 100 years. And the main reason for that is – Jasenovac. Serbs will not forgive Jasenovac for a long time to come.
“One more thing. Those of us in Serbia who sympatized with the Chetniks in late eighties and the beginning of nineties were NOT voting for Milosevic! Our leader was Vuk Draskovic”
Ah yes, Vuk Draskovic.
As Groucho Marx once said; “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.”
I was not saying that Vuk Draskovic is a person whose better part of personality was his moral and intellectual integrity! I would even say that the time has proved that he is worse traitor of Serbia even than Milosevic
My point was to answer to “Bosnian Croat” – to give some insight of the political atmosphere in Serbia in the late 80’s and the beginning of 90’s. Young people in Serbia and those whose families were in Chetniks in WW2 were all supporting Draskovic.But communists won, they voted for Milosevic.
Perhaps the main reason that will not happen, is that ‘pan-Slavic radical nationalism’ is an anachronistic chimera as the so-called ‘Pan-Slavism’ was. The more that historical ‘Panslavism’ originated in Croatia as a Papist propaganda tool to induce Russia into an anti-Ottoman coalition led by the Pope and Habsburg Emperors in the 17th century.
The movement gained momentum much later, in the revolutions of 1848 in Czechia, Slovakia and Poland with a specific anti-Austrian and anti-Russian agenda and degenerated rapidly into ‘Austro-Slavism’.
Russia’s policies of protection of all the Orthodox in the Ottoman Empire were never predicated on any ‘Slavic brotherhood’.
Why would pan-Slavism be an anachronistic chimera, hey?! That is the worst nightmare of Anglo-Zionists, Germans etc. I remember the days when Slavs were united (1945.-1991. – with the exception of Yugoslavia) – and the rest of the world really feared them. They were extremely powerful, while together.
It seems to me that the Slavs are afraid of their own might.
But, I agree that the chances of the revival are small.
At least, there is Russia, which the Empire fears.
What are you talking about? What ‘Slav unity’? The ‘nightmare of the Anglo-Zionists’ between 1945-1991 was the USSR and the Warsaw Pact predicated on the internationalist unity of ‘Socialist brotherly countries’.
Well, the Warsaw pact was in reality Slav unity. Everyone was there: USSR (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus), Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria. (Only Yugoslavia was missing).
Yes the official ideology was something completely different (international unity of socialist brotherly countries), and that is really sad. Marxism in its core was anti-Slavic (both Marx and Engels were anti-Slavic).
But look at it from another perspective: in WW2 Germans planned to exterminate Slavic race. And they did a colosal job: they caused the death of more than 30 million Slavs. Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia were dismembered. USSR was on the edge of defeat., Thanks to enormous bravery and patriotism of the Russian people, Slavic holocaust was not fully done. In other words: Russians basically saved the Slavs from disappearence from history. And at the end of the war all Slavic people were united and allies to each other.
And they were so strong together!
That is what I am talking about.
Even Adolph Hitler wrote in his last will: “The future master.race of the world are the Slavs.”
Why wouldn t Slavs be united again? It seems like a good idea to me.
Can you really see the Polaks uniting ‘again’ with Russia, when they have never been united, nay they have been at the forefront of rabid anti-Russianism? The Czechs? Bulgarians, who called on Russia to save them from the Turks, only to ally themselves with the Turks and attack the only Slavs who stood firmly for the Russians? ‘Ukrainians’ who don’t even consider Russians as Slavs?
Exactly. Dismemberment of Yugoslavia started with Milošević, with “antibureaucratic revolution” and with huge rallys across all republics in ex-yu. Interesting how some people like to forget some obvious facts
Hi Bosnian Croat,
“It was time when Milosevic ruled and started nationalist revival among Serbs. And it was beginning of the end of Yugoslavia.”
What about so called “Croatian Spring” movement from 1971 ? Or terrorist attacks done by Croatian ustashas in 1972 ?
Does that at least not show Croation part in wanting to end Yugoslavia ? I always believed that separatism (from any Yugoslavia or similar) was a historical constant of Croatian political thinking.
Even before 2nd World War in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia …. Remeber Radic’s movement , Croatian Banovina.. etc…
So it is not EXACTLY that the Serbs and Milosevic started the whole thing in 1988. There’s more to it.
The ‘great wave of revival of the ancient Slavic pagan religion’ is a farce as great as the ‘White nationalism’, scripted by the same Antichristian myth-makers. Those who volunteer to play the Dajbog clowns are a pitiable bunch.
There are more Slavic pagans in Russia today, than Protestants, Buddhists, Catholics, Jews. They are already the THIRD religious group in Russia, after the Orthodox and Muslims.
After all, it was Slavic pagans who first established Russia as a superpower and the great state, during the rule of Svyatoslav Igorevich the Conquerer. He was one of the greatest warriors in Russina history, if not the greatest.
My friend, stop dreaming.
Unity with Poland? The most pathetic nation in Europe? (And trust me, I say that with a heavy heart).
Unfortunately, it is not the Nation (being a member of) that gives us moral and spiritual values, but what you belive in. What do you belive in? Svevid? Perun? Wake up, brother, that ship sailed away long ago…
As it is known Sviatoslav Igorevich was a Varangian (Germanic). The Slavs under him were already Christians.
He was the first Russian leader who had a Slavic name.
The Slavs under him were absolutely all of them pagans. They worshiped Perun, Stribog, Simargl, Hors, Mokosha, Veles, Svarog, Dajbog……etc.
The very reason why the soldiers of Svyatoslav were loyal to him was because he REFUSED to accept Christianity. He was a staunch pagan. His famous words were: “The Christian religion is a dishonour.” He conqured everything from Khazaria in the north to the south Balkans and came 50 km from Constantinople (the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, the greatest enemy of the Slavic peoples at the time) with only 20 000 wariors, all of them pagans! His favourite god from Slavic pantheon was Perun, the god of thunder. He despised his mother Olga, who was the first Russian to convert to “the religion of dishonour”
Taking the ‘great’ Sviatoslav as their model by the ‘Ukronazis’ is ridiculous and a bad omen. He lost all his conquests and his life ignominiously at the hands of the barbarian Petchenegs who dishonored his memory by making a drinking cup from his skull. The chronicler attributed his shameful demise to his refusal to listen to his mother and adopt Christianity!
His mother and his son triumphed and got rid of all Peruns, Stribogs and cast them in the ‘bog’. ‘All Rus’ venerate their memory to these days as the ‘equal to the Apostles’. They created Russia.
Svyatoslav in reality created Russia as we know it.
Just look at the Russian borders before him and during his reign.. The very idea of Russia as a great state originates from the conquests of Svyatoslav Igorevich. He is the true founder of great Russia and the greatest warrior in history of that country.
He was the one who, with his army of pagan followers destroyed the Khazarian-Jewish empire (4th largest empire in the whole world at that time).in 965., taking the capital of Itil.
He had only 20 000 thousand soldiers with him, devoted to him because he refused Christianity. They were called “druzhina”.
The time of the full revival of Slavic paganism is coming soon. In Russia as well as the Ukraine. and the rest of the Slavic world.
Time of revival of the religion of nature worship. And the end of Abrahamic non-sense in all its forms.
You may continue dreaming your adolescent wet dreams and ‘drawing maps’ if that makes you happy.
“…Time of revival of the religion of nature worship. And the end of Abrahamic non-sense in all its forms….”
Another ‘map drawer’ of Greater Ukraine by wet dreams of the SNA/PU! It would be laughable, had they not been a criminal SNAFU.
I agree that history has to be re-written, in many countries, to understand who is behind all this senseless wars and unite us (not divide) against the real and common enemy, the ones which profit from misery, wars, exploitation and racism.
The first Russian Princely ‘Passion bearer’ was Roman, the Christian name of Boris, the son of Vladimir the Great. It was the name of several Russian Princes. Perhaps there is something more about the Romanovs.
I would consider Alexander I Karađorđević, Alexander the Unifier, a ‘Passion bearer’, assassinate aty the behest of the Ustasha. He would have married Tatiana, the daughter of Tsar Nicholas II the ‘Passion Bearer’, herself a “Passion Bearer’.
Wasn’t George Petrovic (Karageorge) the leader of the First Serbian Uprising, the first step in the liberation of Serbia from under the Ottoman yoke (himself treacherously assassinated)? His son Alexander was Prince of Serbia from 1842 to 1858, when he was forced into exile for his pro-Russian policy.
Nice article Saker, but few things should be explained further:
1. “Chetnik” is umbrella term for various guerilla groups in occupied Yugoslavia, and there were several organizations in pre-WW2 Yugoslavia under that name. Like the term “Cossacks”, that name does not imply existence of unified movement, ideology, or organization. General Mihailovic was officer of regular Yugoslav Royal army, not a member of official Chetnik Yugoslav militias, which were form of territorial defense, and special forces in Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Off course, after Axis invasion remnants of Yugoslav army under Mihailovic adopted guerilla “chetnik” form of warfare, and got the unofficial name “Chetniks”, while their official name was “Yugoslav Army in Fatherland”. Some members of pre-WW2 official Chetnik units joined Mihailovic, while some remained independent, were enemies of him, and collaborated with Axis. Communists used existence of these independent pro- Axis Chetniks, to attribute them all to Mihailovic in order to declared him a collaborator. Strange enough, Yugoslav communists also wanted at first to adopt name “Chetniks”, but adopted the name “partisans”, inspired by units from Spanish Civil War.
There were several other groups in occupied Yugoslavia under the name “Chetniks”, that had nothing to do with Mihailovic and his resistance organization.
As a matter of fact, puppet collaborator government of Milan Nedic had their own Chetnik units, then there was anti-Mihailovic pro-Axis Chetnik organization of Kosta Pecanac in Serbia proper. Kosta Pecanac was executed by Mihailovic, as collaborator and traitor. Then, there were independent Chetnik units in Bosnia and Dalmatia, that had nothing to do with Mihailovic and his resistance organization. Many of them were local militias, without any ideology or greater plan, but simply existed to defend (mostly Serbian) villages against extermination campaign of Croat pro-Axis Ustashi state. And many of those Chetniks in Bosnia and Dalmatia accepted collaboration with Italians and Germans, in exchange for protection of local population from Ustashi massacres. For example, Chetnik leaders in Bosnia Uros Drenovic, and Rade Radic were such examples. Radic was former communist and partisan, but later formed his own independent Chetnik militia. In Dalmatia, Italians offered protection to Serbian civilian population, and supported local Chetniks under command of Momcilo Djujic against Croatian pro Nazi Ustashas, although, ironically, Italy officially was an ally of these same Ustashas. None of these Chetnik units were under control of Mihailovic at any time, although, on paper, all of them started as resistance movement. And Mihailovic was officially recognized as resistance leader in Yugoslavia both by Yugoslav government in exile and Western allies.
Not to mention that Mihailovic’s men, various Chetnik units not under control of Mihailovic, and troops of puppet Serbian government installed by Germans, all had similar uniforms and markings, derived from pre-WW2 Yugoslav uniforms and markings. This was similar to situation in France, where both Vichy French troops and De Gaulle Free French troops had similar uniforms. Both De Gaulle and Petain had almost identical uniforms.
This fact was later exploited by communists in manipulation of photographs and propaganda, where these independent Chetniks were attributed to Mihailovic, in order to show his “collaboration”.
Germans and other Axis were able to make distinction between Chetniks of Mihailovic and other Chetnik units, which can be seen in Nazi pamphlets and documents where they were described as “DM Chetniks”, or “Chetniks of Draza Mihailovic”, unlike other Chetnik units.
2. Mihailovic and his units were not Serbian-only. As a matter of fact, Mihailovic had units from Slovenia to Macedonia, while his command centre was in Serbia. His units were considered as Yugoslav army. There were actually many Slovenes, Muslims and Croats in his organization, and his right hand man (Zvonimir Vuckovic) was Croat. Last living (as I recall) Mihailovic’s Chetnik officer from WW2 is Slovene and Catholic (Uros Susteric). Leader of Mihalovic organization in Slovenia was Karl Novak, an ethnic Slovene. There were muslim Chetniks of Mihalovic lead by Mustafa Mulalic. Mihalovic himself was not a Serbian nationalist, let alone chauvinist, and many of his resitance units (both Serbian and non-Serbian) were pan-Slavists and Yugoslav monarchists. The fact that he was considered Serbian nationalist by communists and Croat nationalists is because he represented pre WW2 Kingdom of Yugoslavia, which was according to ideology of both Yugoslav communists and nazi Croat chauvinists was “Greater Serbian tyranny” and “product of Greater Serbian bourgeoisie.”
Both communists and Croat Ustashi fascists had almost identical ideological views about Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and Royalist Yugoslav guerillas of Mihailovic, and they used almost identical propaganda against them. Only difference is that Ustasha and Nazis considered Mihailovic and his men as “Greater Serbian nationalists, butchers and puppets of allies and Churchill”, while communists partisans considered Mihailovic and his men as “Greater Serbian nationalists, fascist butchers and collaborators of fascists”. Its true that most of his men were Serbs, but that was the case for communist partisans of Tito as well.
3. The pattern of communist accusation for collaboration, war crimes and nationalism to Chetniks of Draza Mihailovic is nothing new. As a matter of fact, almost identical treatment got the members of Polish Home Army, and Greek resistance fighters of Napoleon Zervas.
Mihailovic trial was almost copied from the trial of Polish home army leaders:
And leader of Greek non communist resistance movement got the same accusations from Greek leftists, for collaboration with Nazis, ethnic cleansing and Greek nationalism:
And Mihailovic got several medals from allies during and AFTER war. He got polish medal Virtuti Militari in 1942 by Sikorski, french War Cross in 1943 by De Gaulle, and posthumously US Legion of Merit in 1948 by Truman. While Tito got only one, from Soviets.
4. The greatest irony is that Yugoslav “antifascist” communists, under Tito while they were accusing Mihailovic for collaboration, actually offered collaboration to Germans in 1943, and this offer was later rejected by Germans:
And that communist partisans accepted in their ranks Croat fascist volunteers from Eastern Front that were captured by Red Army:
This was their commander:
Croat Axis air ace from Eastern Front and fascist volunteer “against Bolshevism” Mate Dukovac, also changed his side in the war and later was instructor for Yugoslav communist air force :
While almost all officers of Mihailovic were executed for “collaboration with fascists”.
5. Why was fate of Mihailovic and his men so tragic? Why was Polish Home army rehabilitated almost universally, while there is still massive propaganda against Mihailovic even to this day by various activists?
First of all, Mihalovic was army officer of multinational country, while Poland was basically state of Polish people. Many members of nations of Yugoslavia (Croats and Albanians in particular) joined Axis with great enthusiasm. Communist partisans offered these former fascists and non Serbian nationalists abolition in exchange for loyalty to new regime.
Yugoslav communists accepted Marxist/Leninist doctrine “On national question”, where nationalisms were divided into “nationalism of oppressor” and “nationalism of oppressed”. According to Lenin, Russian nationalism belongs to first case, while nationalism of all other groups belong to later category. So, Soviet communists supported and encouraged “Ukrainization” in Ukraine and creation of separate identities of Ukrainians and Belorussians towards Russians, and fragmented Russia into many republics. This practice was later slightly revised under Stalin, because of ww2 experience, since lots non Russian ethnicities collaborated with Germans, and thus were traitors of Soviet cause.
On other hand, Yugoslav communists continued this ideological practice, specially since Kingdom of Yugoslavia was strongly anticommunist and massively supported “White Russian” emigres, and Yugoslav monarchy, it’s elites, and army were considered thus reactionary and hostile to communist cause. And both communist and Croat fascists had the same goal of destruction of that state and regime. Mihailovic represented Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Therefore, Yugo communists had great understanding, for Croat nationalists (and other non Serbian nationalists), that they accepted in their ranks. As a matter of fact, some high ranking communist Yugoslav officials, like Stane Dolanc were members of Nazi organizations, before they joined partisans in later stages of the war.
Second, there was Tito-Stalin split, when West suddenly started to support Tito and his regime. So it was in strategic interest in the West to support official Yugoslav communist mythology, created by Tito and his clique.
So we got authors, like Tomashevich (himself a Croat economist), who presented in the West book “Chetniks” in English, with collaboration with communist Yugoslav authorities, in a attempt to provide rationale for communist take over in Yugoslavia. Now, this propaganda book, based on biased Yugoslav sources has been considered as ultimate book about Chetniks for some, while reports, books and memoirs written by non-Yugoslav sources and living witnesses (of allied envoys) has been ignored.
Thirdly, there was Yugoslav civil war in nineties, when Serbian leader Milosevic got into conflict with West, which lead to massive propaganda campaign in West against Serbia and Serbs, and when all other groups that were in war with Serbs got massive support from West. And because, from perspective of these nationalities term “Chetnik” is same as “Greater Serbian nationalist”, there was also massive campaign in the West to present WW2 Chetniks of Mihailovich as war criminals, fascists and butchers of worst kind. For that purpose, they used Tomashevich, and Yugoslav communist sources as base for propaganda. Therefore there was influx of Western books in nineties about Chetniks, which were mostly presented from Yugoslav communist and Croat nationalist perspective, not to mention that perception of Chetniks in Serbia itself is also mostly based on communist stereotypes, not what they really were.
As I already said, since the term “Chetniks” was used in WW2 for various bunch of different guerillas and militias, that had nothing to do with Mihailovic. He has been associated to all of them, simply because he was leader of largest group. And since some of these groups collaborated with Germans and Italians, Mihailovic, an resistance leader was declared as collaborator. It’s like to say that Stalin collaborated with Germans after “Barbarossa”, because he was commander of Cossack units of Red Army, and therefore he was leader of Cossacks. But since there were Cossacks that were collaborators of Nazis, therefore Stalin, as Cossack leader, was Nazi collaborator as well…
Thanks a lot for explaning this broader framework for assessing the different positions towards the different actors during both the resistance against the occupation forces and the civil war in the occupied kingdom of Yugoslavia.
Thanks to all for participating in this informative discussion about Yugoslavian and Serbian history and special thanks for the moderators to keep it free from hatred and pure propaganda which you usually find in all kind of discussions about the Yugoslavian past.
Filled-in a lot of blanks.
I think you hit upon a key point!!!!!
at the 25:37 mark of above video it mentions that Yugoslavia witnessed the most of any other nation in Europe to many different armies and factions of which Serbia alone had 12.”
How can any country survive let alone fight In such an atmosphere of confusion? Partisans? Yep, everyone is prejudiced in one way or another and acts accordingly. Yugoslavia never had a chance or a true national army and patriotism where they could untie one and all. The hate between all is to this day shocking really.
How does that saying go united we stand divided we fall! or As Christ said Himself, a kingdom divided against itself will never stand.
Growing up I always heard my father Petar who was from north of Zagreb near the Slovenian border always mentioned the word propaganda this and propaganda that and I could never understand his hate for Serbia and Serbians? Actually, I think it was because of the murder by Chetnik forces of the poet Ivan Goran Kovacic who was a close personal friend of his father my grandfather a great accordion player and in fact, is mentioned in honourium in Kovacic biography OGNJEVI I RUZE. Petr Breski.
The poem Jama will of course come to mind:
Blood is my daylight and darkness too.
Blessing of night has been gouged from my cheeks
Bearing with it my more lucky sight.
Within those holes, for tears, fierce fire inflamed
The bleeding socket as if for brain a balm –
While my bright eyes died on my own palm
It is unbelievable for me to sit here today and read this entire thesis and the many comments!!! Wow, just wow really!
and lastly may I bring to everyone’s attention the voice of God from the Throne room of Heaven of all of this violence and hatred by bringing to everyone’s attention the teachings of His word about Climate Change!!!!! I can assure you that not even Serbia or Croatia or Bosnia or any other is going to be spared the pain of climate change which is Divine Communication pure and simple!!!! I’m even reminded of the testimony of Dr. Kusmic when in a church in the city of Vukovar that was being shelled and how it was accompanied by in his words an apocalyptic moment the thunder, hail and rain that accompanied it all.
and then go into the bible and read the truth about climate change or if you can’t do that get the book Climate Change the Work of God by Gerry Fox:
The Lord will cause people to hear his majestic voice and will make them see his arm coming down with raging anger and consuming fire, with cloudburst, thunderstorm and hail. (Isaiah 30:30)………..
This comment has gone off-topic and the other quotes from the bible have been removed. Please take any comments about climate change to the relevant post or MFC. Any further off-topic comments will go to trash. Thx. Mod.
This is very decent interpretation of history of Kingdom of Yugoslavia from its founding in 1918 till end of 1929. Watch carefully
Right, (CIA) “history” is written by the AngloZionists Empire and its Nazi and Trotskyite proxies, and patently false. (mostly – like with GLADIO and 9/11 – they present things the other way around)
The Serbian Nationalist Drazha Mikhailovich was most certainly one of the real Resistance heroes of WWII. Tito was a with the AngloZionists (and therefore Nazis) collaborating, Trotskyite thug of the worst kind, and Tito’s Yugoslavia a Trojan horse of the West, which helped bring down the Marxist-Leninist Soviet Union, i.e. the 1953 coup d’états; the take-over of the leadership by the Trotskyite thugs (Khrushchev-Gorbachev).
[For all the flaws and horrors of the Russian Revolution and the heavily infiltrated by pseudo-Communist Trotskyites Bolshevik Revolution, Lenin – hence the assassination attempts – and Stalin and many others were genuine Communists (Marxist-Leninists) and therefore very much opposed to the Trotskyites, the Nazis, and the AngloZionist Empire]
Perhaps it is time to recapitulate the Mihailovic debate. The Saker has unquestionably performed a public service by stimulating it with his illuminating and inspired reflections on the subject. I almost said “controversial subject,” but I held myself back because the matter is as controversial as the proposition that holds that 2 plus 2 equals 4. The fate of General Mihailovic is a tragedy of epic proportions, with fundamental facts about the World War II role of this noble patriot having been twisted and obfuscated by a crumbling but still influential ideological propaganda machine. Saker’s text has been effective in luring out of their hideouts and exposing to derision a few of the surviving stalwarts of the tyrannical communist regime that brutally executed its premiere opponent after a disgraceful travesty of a “trial.” Their impotent fulminations have brought into the open the gaping holes in the fake history (a category of falsehood that must be added to the currently popular fake news) that the communist regime, using all its resources, has spun around this topic. The historically and morally accurate perception of General Mihailovic, which is ineluctably gaining ground in Serbia similarly to the analogous process with respect to the martyred and viciously maligned emperor Nicholas II taking place in Russia, will inevitably prevail because it is based on the truth. And the wonderful thing about it is that there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop that.
Thank you Stephen and Saker for this article and your timely and scholarly intervention in the comments section. With truth comes reconciliation, not just between each other, but also with oneself. I agree that Drazha’s star will continue to rise, it is inevitable.
with fundamental facts about the World War II role of this noble patriot having been twisted and obfuscated by a crumbling but still influential ideological propaganda machine….”
Facts are not “twisted”.
They are rock hard and unwavering.
In addition, there is an ocean of these documents, but some people still like to “research” Anglo-Zionist propaganda “science.”
These documents are German military documents. There are hundreds, maybe thousands available.
Each of them – with reference to DM-Chetnics – as total collaborators. Absolute slaves of Nazis and Italian fascists.
You can find in the discussion a fraction of the documents linked by me.
Of course, you can choose to live in a lie and spread that kind of propaganda of the Masonic AngloZionists.
However, they definitely have some links that are not “twisted” and the further search is up to you.
Saker, you and SmoothieX12 consistently link to Wikipedia. All the information presented in this article is news to me. Wiki is Jewish and CIA controlled. See this link:
You will see the Infogalactic Encyclopedia that I most often link to is different from Wiki’s page; you will not be able to edit to make factually accurate Wikipedia but Infogalactic can be edited and will respect the changes. It is not under CIA and AngloZionist control.
Wiki page is here:
Infogalactic is here:
I lack the technical and historical knowledge to edit the Mihailović page on Infogalactic but I hope there are members of The Saker community who can do so.
Thanks for writing this, Saker!
I deeply appreciate your work, analyses, approach and opinions. But in case of Draza Mihajlović I was surprised with lack of all the attributes that usually excel your work. The opinions, assumptions and analyses are based only on one segment of information’s and you do not even try to include, explain and introduce the others.
The fact is the second world war in Yugoslavia was very complex. Probably the most in all occupied countries. There was multinational war, civil war, anti-fascist and anti-Nazis war and socialist revolution.
Even if you do not like it, the fact is that only partisans were fighting against fascism and Nazism. All other forces were at best neutral but in most cases collaborative with them. Even chetniks. For example “Before and during operation Weiss, they cooperate even with Pavelic ustash – same ustash which killed 800 000 people in Jasenovac (not only Serbs but also people of other nations from the former Yugoslavia). “
The goal of chetniks was first to fight partisans, then ustash, then muslims and at the end Germans. They were allies with fascist Italy until capitulation of Italy.
You have to separate world war II fight of partisans and after war policies of communists. I do not want to comment after war events in my writing. Partisans were multinational, multi-ethnic and also multi political force, combined from farmers and workers, priests and intellectuals and yes, lead by communists. I know many partisans including both my grand fathers who were not communists and fight this liberation war. I also knew people in my childhood whose relatives were raped, tortured, killed by Mihajlović chetniks. Forced mobilisation were also their regular activity.
As I said the situation in Yugosalvia was complex. Chetnics were only recognized force by Britans and Soviet Union in Yugoslavia in 1941 and 1942 who is acting against Germas. In 1943 the opinion and support changed based on the reports of the several military missions to the both chetniks and partisans.
The “Disident” and Historian Jože Pirjevec deeply analyses all those facts on the basis of multiyear long study of almost all possible sources and archives as well as military documents (German, Yugoslav, English, etc…). There are many, many others out there…
Also The opinions of many persons that you mentioned are simple MSM type of propaganda which can be denied on the basis of historical facts.
And last but not the least:
The mentioned Rehabilitation of Mihajlović in Serbia is the same political thing as rehabilitation of Stepinac in Croatia, Rožman in Slovenia or Bandera in Ukraine.
I recognize the Serbs as proud and fearless people. The story of the heroic Mihailovic and his companions impressed me even more.
Hopefully many of my fellow Orthodox Greeks who also love the Serbs will come to learn this story.
I wish you the best for the future.
I’m sorry but Milosevic was an Anglo-Zionist stooge, no less than Izebegovic or Tudjman. He used virulent nationalism to marginalize moderates in all Republics.
He did this on instructions from foreign masters.
The decision to destroy Yugoslavia was made in the same halls of power as was the decision to create it. Yugoslavia was a Masonic experiment that was meant to be temporary. Even Tito’s Third Way rhetoric was a product of an Anglo-Zionist scheme to globalize and rationalize all nations on earth.
I have no hope the bickering will ever stop. Too many outside forces are determined to keep tensions high between these still largely intermingled groups. The same people who fostered Croatian fascism also fostered Serbian royalism, Titoism, Bolshevism, Stalinism, Trotskyism and today just plain ol’ fashioned Neo Conservatism and so-called Democratic Capitalism. As a guide to our current situation please note all former Yugoslav Republics are today run by Zionist collaborators.
At one point in time I considered myself a nationalist of a sort. I saw it as a way to counter Globalism. Time and self education have brought me to the conclusion all ‘-isms’ are easily co-optible and always controlled from the outside; and almost always by the Transnational Zionist Elite.
I am an ethnic Croat. When I was born my irreligious father thought it would be wise to have me baptized, since we lived and I was born in Canada, at the height of the Cold War. He marched to the nearest Catholic Church alongside his best friend, a Serb from Nis if memory serves, because he wanted his best friend and his Bihac born wife to be my Godparents. On learning the Catholic Church would not permit this he told the Priest he was an idiot and immediately marched again, now across the street, to a church he saw with word United on it’s front door. It was there he and his Serb friends were readily accepted. Soon after I was baptized in the United Church of Canada, with nominally Catholic parents and now Orthodox God Parents.
Why do I tell this story? Because my situation represents the vast majority of common people who left Yugoslavia. We were perhaps slightly more cosmopolitan as a group, being immigrants to Canada, but all of us very much belived the extremism of the recent past should be left there – in the past. Ironically a few months after my baptism the United Church sent our family a letter demanding 10% of our income be tithed so we could remain in good standing. Lol. I am told my father went directly to that church upon recieving the letter and told the Pastor, same as the Priest, he was also an idiot.
When the war came there were difficult moments for everyone in our extended group. The card games hosted by my father, involving Serbs, Croats, a Slovenian, a Bosniak and even a Yugo-Slovak stopped for several years. It took time but eventually most of this group reconciled and today we are grateful, discussing politics only sparingly and mostly with sufficient wisdom to understand all our lives we were lied to, yet, we discovered the Truth for ourselves.
Together we represent no specific ethnic group nor religion nor existing country. We are just people who prefer to remain friends and see the best side of OUR people, which are all people. It is my ardent wish that those who cannot escape their lifetime of brainwashing can at least appreciate our ideal is a good one. It hasn’t always been easy to maintain but having it makes us wealthier than most and unlikely to fall for provocations made by those who wish to stir the pot and keep humanity divided in the face of Anti-humane Zionist deviousness and perfidy.
Cousin, I think you are on to something when you write: “We are just people who prefer to remain friends and see the best side of OUR people, which are all people.”
There might be many people like you, your commonsense father and your godparents of different “ethnicity” living quiet loving lives all over the world. A biologist told me that when the dynosaurs stopped ruling the world, the creatures that took over were so small and insignificant-looking, it would have been hard to detect them in the dynosaur age.
how many times I can multiply this over and over again throughout my life the things you say. just recently in fact I had the pleasure of working with and befriending a man from Croatian background though not born there. His last name is a Guric.
Some time later I had the pleasure of meeting an expat Serbian who was a contractor painter at my place of work. We immediately became friends because we drove the exact same year car an old 1988 jaguar and we laughed over the similarities and guess what his first name is? Guric?
I thought too myself then as I do now yeah look at this, maybe what everyone should do is get one of those DNA kits and trace one lineage I bet my life we are all related by blood somewhere?
On another matter my father was almost killed by partisans. He had been caught wearing a german helmet upon his getting expelled from Austria and Germany where he went for work before the outbreak of hostilities. he had found an old helmet and decided to use it to protect himself from the elements upon his travels back home. A partisan patrol caught him and almost killed him for being a spy but the units commander his girlfriend prevented it crying out that my father was her brother. How close I came to not being born lol?
So many stories and history. As for your mentioning baptisms when I was youngster because of my connection to all of this and my faith I have always asked questions about war and why in particular Christian nations go to war to kill other Christian nations? If you go through the front lines and ask one and all if they are Christians what will be the answer? I could spend days here writing all that I know and have seen really as we could all I suppose. and who by the way sat back and enjoyed seeing Christians kill Christians by the millions? I think your first sentence answers that yes?
mod-to: Please, lets stay on track with relevance to to the article. This thread seems better suited for the Moveable Feast Cafe.
Those bad, bad Bolsheviks, they really spoiled the tea party. Because of them, Russia never got to experience this:
At least until the israeloamerican saviour, in the name of yeltsin, got the throne. Then it was tea partay all the way.
All people on Earth are same. Only stupid people think their are celestial. Serbs are one of them. Turks are coming back to Serbia to teach them the lesson once again.
Mod: Thank-you kindly for your very insightful comment.
the borders of states are not drawn by argument. they are mostly drawn with blood. groups of tribes or various other ethnic groups form in a particular territory their own state, which may later grow into a nation-state. throughout history they try to expand or simply survive. I definitely consider it colossal nonsense that all people descended from one nation, scattered around the world, must live in one country in a way to unify the surrounding territories and expand their state. of course they can try it and pay the price. it’s fair game. but it is also fair that they do not play the victims later if they fail. different climates also cause different population development. both economically and culturally. the egoistic approach that man holds all the threads in his hands and manages everything is wrong. this is the result of nationalism, by which I, and only I and myself alike, can condition everyone around us. thus, all nationalists in Croatia and Serbia are always wrong. If the Serbs want a hero from Draza M. so be it. but it will only be their hero. The last time Putin was in Serbia he was surrounded by Serbian politicians who openly advocate Greater Serbia. it does not help much in pacifying the Balkans. It is better for Russia to keep some distance from its “brothers” as for America from Israel. Serbian and Croatian nationalism are two sides of the same coin. glorifying Draza is a non-civilizational act, as is glorifying Croatian criminals from WWII. Draza M. & Co. are people who lived in their time and have nothing to do with the present. it is unclear to me how Serbs will build their path on ideas that definitely lead to conflicts with neighbors. otherwise, a slight deviation from the subject, … so, if a person who is of descent from the same tribe is born one kilometer beyond the border in another country, he is a national of the country in which he was born and not of his own origin. and of course when he dies and is buried in the place where he lived, that place does not belong to the country from which he originate. the unification of the territory in which Serbian graves are located and the reunification with the mother country is an act leading to armed conflict. some concise pamphlet of most Serbian politicians that was presented in ’90, where Serbian graves are – that’s Serbia. do we need realy to repeat the ’90 war again?
is not my blog, but just to notice that this space has a slightly stronger inclination towards the Serbs, because of the “brotherhood” with the Russians. foreigners who were not born in Yugoslavia, grew up in socialism, fought with their weapons in their hands, cannot objectively see things in the Balkans. justifying any discussion or criticism of Serbian politics with Jasenovac is inappropriate because it resembles the Zionist labeling of all critics as anti-Semites. no one in the Balkans is an angel, not even the Serbs.
Since we are ending this discussion, I think modern Serbia should forget on Draza Mihailovic as an ideal on which it should build its future. He morally and militarily failed in the time which needed true heroes. He failed to safeguard the Karadjordjevic’s dynasty, his Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland was ejected from anti-Hitlerian coalition, he didn’t participate in the country’s liberation (ignoring king Peter’s order), finished the war in a cave abandoned by his main commanders). What glory modern Mihailovicists see there?
Just the fact that, at the Teheran conference, he was ejected by Churchill, Truman and Stalin, from the anti-Hitlerian coalition is the biggest shame brought to brave Serbian people ever!
(Imagine that Serbian Army and its commander King Aleksander were excluded from the Allied forces at the Salonika front in 1918, i.e. excluded from the liberation of Serbia!)
Why some people in Serbia want to glorify him?
Yugoslavia, as a project of King Aleksandar and later marshal Tito to unite South Slavs in one single country, was dismembered and buried by local nationalism and Western meddling. Now, Serbs must find a way to build, not Great Serbia, but an All Serb country. Draza Mihailovic was a Serb patriot, monarchist, and extreme Serb nationalists. During the WWII he tried to create ‘Great Serbia’ within future Yugoslavia. He tried it with the help of the occupiers (not fighting Germans, supporting them in Eastern Bosnia, collaborating with Italians) and slaughtering Muslims and Croats on the territory of future ‘Great Serbia’. (Forget Partisans, it was Monarchy vs Republic fight). That politics miserably failed.
Yes, the Serbs should fight to build their country (Slovenians did it, Croats did it, Montenegrins did it, soon Albanians will have it, Bosniaks should have it). We need smart peoples, new heroes to achieve that goal and do something for the people. (Maybe a new Milos Obrenovic). But, please, don’t look at Mihailovic, a shameful loser, and his Chetniks!
(Don’t take me wrong, Draza was a great patriot in 1941. Forming Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland, and mobilizing thousands of patriots were excellent ideas, but he DIDN’T fight the occupiers! He failed those patriotic people because he was not capable to lead his army, he set wrong military goals and thus betraying true Serb patriots and their libertarian and anti-fascists sentiment.)
The film is full of distortions.
It adopts the same stale, right wing arguments that have been endlessly repeated since the War.
For instance, William Deakin, who led the “Typical” mission to the Durmitor Mountains in May 1943, is portrayed as being “hoodwinked” by the Partisans due to the to the fact he landed in the middle of the “Fourth Offensive”. He thus, allegedly, he got a false impression of their real strength.
(In the 1980’s I visited the Durmitor range, where I met a former British army parachutist who broke his leg landing during the war.
He was sheltered by a peasant girl, whom he was visiting for the first time in 30 years.
Nazi reprisals would have been brutal, but I can assure you that she risked her life, not because the Titoites were pointing a gun at her, but because they were seen as a progressive liberation movement)
Heather Williams, the former Southampton University history student who appears in the film repeats the theme of the betrayal of Mihailović.
In her PhD thesis she insinuates that British SOE had been infiltrated by Stalinists, in particular James Klugmann, who it is alleged swayed the Foreign Office into supporting Tito.
This story has been around since 1945 and is similar to Senator Joe McCarthy’s allegations “how we lost China”.
Ironically, in 1951, after the Tito-Stalin split, Klugmann wrote a screed for the British Communist party called “From Trotsky to Tito” .
In it, he argued that, from the 1930’s :-
“there were leading elements .. inside the Yugoslav Communist Party, spies and provocateurs, Gestapo elements, Trotskyites, who could be ‘trusted’ (from the point of view of British imperialism), and could be used to betray the Yugoslav people’s liberation movement from inside, and carry out an Anglo-American imperialist policy”.
(Why the Titoite “agents of imperialism” turned against British forces in Trieste at the end of the war is left unexplained)
Klugmann goes on to say:-
“ the change of British policy from Mihailović to Tito in the period of 1942-43. ..was carried out with the maximum secrecy and with that great measure of cunning and deceit for which British imperialism, with its long and unrivalled experience of cunning and deceit, has become notorious throughout the world.”
It isn’t not hard to see how yesterday’s Stalinist rubbish has morphed into today’s far right conspiracy theories too common amongst Eastern Europeans today!
In fact there was good evidence that Tito’s Partisans were a far more effective fighting force than the Royalist Chetniks;
By November 1942, the Partisans had created a liberated zone known as the Bihać Republic. This wasn’t retaken by German forces until late January .
When Axis forces numbering over 120,000 pushed into the area, Mihailović disappeared, leaving many of his followers behind.
These became auxiliaries of the Nazis, along with the Italians, Bulgarians and some White Russians, all of whom attacked Tito’s Partisans.
The passivity exhibited Mihailović doesn’t qualify him as a hero.
He was hoping to hold out long enough for an allied Invasion on the Dalmatian coast, but he miscalculated.
Tito, who had thousands of wounded partisans in his force, attempted to negotiate an armistice and prisoner exchange with the Germans.
He was seeking recognition for the Partisans as a legitimate army- just like the Chetniks claimed to be.
This would have afforded them some protection them from mass reprisals by the Nazis.
But there was no agreement because the Germans couldn’t produce all the prisoners the Partisans demanded.
There’s no evidence that Tito was offering a permanent alliance with the Germans
The Partisans lost 7,000 casualties during the Battle of Sutjeska, which was a turning point in the War.
Even the German General Rudolf Luters said “they were skilfully led and their morale was unbelievably high.
“Within 3 weeks., they were able to regroup, recruit new volunteers and organise several counterattacks in Eastern Bosnia within”
Let me mention another distortion in the movie. Remember the old man sitting on a chair and talking about a battle for Visegrad when Chetniks of Draza Mihailovic took the town. He said he saw bloody river and he cried. And Saker cried after him. He believed it was blood of Chetnik heroes. What was distorted? It wasn’t theirs blood!
The truth is that Chetniks attacked the town from all sides and defeated the Ustashas and Domobrans (regular Croat Army) defending it. (Germans knew about the upcoming attack and left the town during the night before the Chetnik attack.) After taking the town mass robberies, raping and killings of the Muslim civilians started. About 2,000 of them were killed in two days. Hundreds were brought to the bridge and slaughtered there. Then Draza came to visit ‘liberated’ Visegrad accompanied by the officers of the British military mission. They came to the bridge. There were hundreds of dead civilians everywhere around. When they arrived at the bridge the slaughtering was still going on. There was blood everywhere. The killed women were thrown to the river; the entire river was red. On seeing that, the British officers were appalled and started vomiting on the spot. When Draza ordered to stop the killings, a 14 yo boy, found nearby, was executed as ‘responsible for the killings’.
It is possible that the old man didn’t lie. Most probably he told the truth about the killings in Visegrad and the producer and editor of the movie distorted his story. (They were producing Chetnik propaganda anyway).
Don’t cry for them Saker!
PS: Five days later these Chetniks came to Rogatica and Sokolovici where they were destroyed by the Partisans of the 3rd Eastern Bosnia Corps of Tito’s Army.
Reading through the text and then the comments, I cannot help but think that it is still too early to get any real conlusion on the role of Chetniks in WW2. I am sure that both sides have valid points. And I am sure that most of people went to war on the side they did because that was the correct choice from their stand point.
I can only relate what my gradparents told me as to their reasons. Both my grandfathers went to Partisans as did my paternal grandmother. She, by the way, was born in the “King hometown” Topola, where the royal dinasty has their mausoleum. She and her sister went all the way to Bosnia to join Partisans and later on both got married to soldiers after the war. Now, my question was always: if the royals were so good, why did the people abandon them so easily? Unfortunately, I never got to ask her because she died when I was young.
My paternal grandfather joined Partisans in 1941 when Ustashe started attacking the region around Sarajevo where he was born. The organizer in the area was Partisan, so he went with them as did two of his brothers. No ideology or high politics involved, just survival. Now, contary to what some comments here state, he did fight Ustaše, and he fought them a lot. He ended up wounded on 4 separate occasions and remained an invalid as he almost lost his left arm. As for fights with Germans, he didn’t meet them ever, only Ustaše.
My maternal gradfather joined Partisans in 1942. His brother and father went in 1941 running away from Ustaše who especially heavily terrorised the region of Bosnian Krajina. Most of his fights were also Ustaše related with a few German encounters. His mother and sister that stayed in the village were, incidentally, killed by a group of “Chetniks”. Now, whether they were the real deal, or a roaming band of thugs dressing up as such, nobody knows. All that was known is that they were killed by knives… butchered so to speak.
Finally, my maternal grandmother was too young to fight, and her family didn’t get involved in the war as far as I know. The only facts I know of her encounters is that another group of “Chetniks” came through the village looting. They killed her father for resisting, took everything of value and ripped earings off her ears… she never wore another pair in her life.
This is my short ancestry story relating to this topic. Before others start arguing with me, this is what I was told by people I love and trust, people of impeccable integrity and personal record, and does not mean that what happened to them should be extrapolated and therefore make one or the other side right or wrong. This is just one small set of stories of the WW2. Finally, my mother’s father went on collecting information about people that fought and died or survived the war that were from his region. He took short biographies and photos of the people and assebled a book about 10 years ago… it only took him 60 years of work.
As a German fluently speaking Serbocroatian who was actively taking part in the discussions about the future of Yugoslavia and Serbia mainly in Belgrade, but also in other places like Užice or Zagreb during the late 1980s I would like to give you some conclusive thoughts about both parts of our topic Dragutin “Draža” Mihajlović and the way Serbia could or should be rebuilt.
Let’s start with a few questions important to be answered:
1. What kind of country was the kingdom of Yugoslavia, Mihajlović and the people around him tried to defend, how was it run both in the interior and in its foreign policies and how happy were the people with that country who lived there?
2. How did Yugoslavia get into World War II? Was it the policy of its government or the policy of the German government who both had cooperated very closely in economic terms in the years before? Or was there maybe a third power which had a big interest in Germans and Yugoslavians killing each other in highest possible quantities? And if such a country existed, on which way did it try to trigger this totally unnecessary German-Yugoslav war? Maybe a coup after a reasonable agreement of understanding between both sides, just as it would have been done today?
That sounds very British, wouldn’t you agree?
3. Which means did Mihajlović and the people around him have to fight a) the invading powers, b) the genocidal bastard of a state called “Nezavisna Država Hrvatska (“Independent” State of Croatia) mass slaughtering the Serbian population plus c) all the interior enemies who wanted to destroy the remaining structures of the country?
Some, but clearly not sufficient ones.
4. Which means did Mihajlović personally have both to instruct and to control all the Četnik fighters formally under his command and to make them acting exactly the way he would have acted himself?
Partly sufficient ones, partly not sufficient ones and partly none (not to talk about all those Četnik groups not under his formal command).
Regarding priorities about whom to fight with limited means and with whom to cooperate, you have to know the situation of the group in question, their needs and the options they really had. Cooperating with the Italians mainly meant saving the lives of Serbian civilians as it were only the Germans who supported and/or allowed the genocidal slaughtering through the Croatian Ustaše. All Croatian concentration and extermination camps for instance were in the German zone of the NDH and none in the Italian.
The conception to cooperate with the Nedić government in Serbia via infiltrations and agreements (The Germans called it the bridge from Nedić to Mihajlović) and to wait until the tide of war had changed in order to save lives and to prepare for the reestablishing of the kingdom of Yugoslavia then was totally legitimate, especially if you look only at the part of Yugoslavia, the Germans defined as Serbia and even the idea to cooperate with the Germans I wouldn’t assess as the ultimate crime.
But the whole country was fragmented by the invaders into severals parts and the true horror happened in NDH which covered Croatia and Bosnia up to Zemun which is very close to Belgrade. The situation for the Serbian population under Bulgarians and Albanians wasn’t that pleasant neither. Next, the kingdom of Yugoslavia which was attacked by nationalist (mainly Croatian and Macedonian) and communist terrorists before the invasion was further attacked by communists after the invasion. So the “schemes of the old order” had not only be kept alive during the occupation but also to be defended against the communist – let’s call them – “competitors”.
Also we should not forget that the soldiers of Draža Mihajlović were the only ones during the first three years openly fighting against the invaders. To be more exact in a two or three months period in late spring/early summer 1941. After being heavily defeated by the Germans in these battles, Mihajlović and the people around him simply had to change their strategies due to their insufficient means.
The “heroic battle of the Partisans” over the years and the final liberation of the country as the communist propaganda tells us from a German point of view was just “hit and run” and trying to avoid total defeat when attacked by the Germans (just the same the Četnici tried, too when attacked by the Germans). Heroic, nevertheless.
And yes, at the end of World War II the Yugoslavian territory was liberated by the Partisans (and by the Soviet Red Army) but against an occupation force which was already in retreat from the Balkans both from Greece and from Yugoslavia. And, according to German military studies after war, that retreat worked quite or even very well.
Mihajlović himself definitely was neither the butcher nor the German quisling as described in the show trial of 1946, but I also doubt that he was the “white knight” as people in Serbia like to see him. In my assessment he was a person trying the best to serve the occupied kingdom in loyalty with his limited means. He and his men had a reasonable concept how to get through about the first two years of the war, but had to improvise and struggle for survival when the tide of war had changed.
There is no doubt that in this war “Četnici” committed as horrible crimes towards civilians as Croatian Ustaše, although not that organized and significantly less in quantity, while the partisans took their main revenge after the end of the war by shooting ten thousands of Ustaše, Domobranci and Četnici without looking into personal guilt (which of course also was not possible).
Whether Draža Mihajlović was personally involved in war crimes or whether he tolerated them when he could have prevented them we will never find out. His role in World War II definitely has to be cleaned from communist propaganda. He deserves a respectful remembrance and a public grave, but is he also a suitable person to serve as an important part of the basis Serbia should be rebuild on?
Here one has to ask himself or herself first what kind of Serbia he or she is thinking of. A powerful Serbia reigning over other nations on the Balkans, a Serbia successfully fighting its enemies or a Serbia which is consciously developing out of its backwardness with clean and friendly relations with all its neighbors?
The first Serbia could be built on Mihajlović, for the second I already doubt and for the third in my opinion it’s simply impossible to choose a military leader connected to a Četnik-movement, which is deeply compromised because of the horrible crimes people had committed who were Četnici or called themselves Četnici both during World War II and the Yugoslavian civil war during the Nineties. And even if it would be possible we again would have a national memory on a defeat just like for the battle at Kosovo polje in 1389.
Since I definitely would like to see Serbia rebuilt namely in the third version, let’s look for alternatives in three periods of Serbian history: In those 200 years of the Nemanjići dynasty (from 1167 to 1371) when Serbia was a European advanced civilization, in the period between liberation from the Turkish until the beginning of World War II and in Communist Yugoslavia.
This period should be most suitable to look at for those amongst you linked to orthodox Christianity since Serbia in that time was some kind of successor of Byzanz (not only) on a spiritual level. I myself do not know much about that period (although I visited by accident the grave of one of their kings at the outskirts of Prizren during the late Eighties) and can actually only offer you the name Sveti Sava (Saint Sava) to start with.
This period starts with the urprisings against the Turks from 1804 and 1815 let by Đorđe “Karađorđe” Petrović and Miloš Obrenović who were the founders of the later rivalling dynasties Karađorđevići and Obrenovići, leads through World War I and ends with the destruction of the kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1941.
Far from being the ideal period for looking for somebody Serbia in version 3 could be rebuilt on due to endless fighting and struggling and due to the influence of interior dark powers like Ujedinjenje ili Smrt (The Black Hand), but if you prefer to lean on a military leader you will definitely have some opitions. Marshal Putnik or Nikola Pašić might be names to start with. And their was one king from the Obrenovići dynasty, who reached out hands to the then inferior Karađorđevići, but I don’t remember his name (only that he of course was killed at the end).
The more modern approach
In the first two decades of the SFRJ the person symbolizing Serbia’s share in the Communist government and power was interior minister Aleksandar Ranković, a leading figure of the “conservative” or “centralist wing” of the communist party and the boss of the Yugoslav secret police UDBA. After his removal in 1966 the party was cleaned by Tito and his followers of centralists who were mainly Serbian politicians so that the balance in the party shifted more towards Croatian politicians – but also gave politicians from the party’s “liberal wing” in Serbia the possibility to shape the republic’s policy for the first time.
Their outstanding personalities were Marko Nikezić, deputy foreign minister 1962-1965, Yugoslavian foreign minister 1965-1967 and chairman of the Serbian Central Committee 1968-1972; Mirko Tepavac, chief editor of “Politika” 1965-1967 and Yugoslavian foreign minister 1968-1973, Mijalko Todorović, member of the party’s Executive Committee 1968-1974, Latinka Perović, secretary of the Serbian Central Committee 1968-1972 and Koča Popović, one of the leading generals of Tito’s Army during World War II who had raised this generation of liberals.
This period although lasting for only five years was in my opinion the brightest period during the last 200 years of Serbian history and I highly recommend you to have a closer look.
After a critical cooperation of the Communist leadership of Croatia with neo-nationalist forces and Ustaša sympathizers had developed, the dictator and his followers smashed the whole party’s liberal wing in 1972 after breaking severe resistance in Serbia. The politicians who then followed led the country in direct line first into “economic difficulties”, then into a severe economic and systemic crisis and last into the civil war.
If the party’s liberal wing would have succeeded in removing Tito, continuing their policies and reforming the country, in my opinion there would have been a good chance for the Yugoslavian community of nations and for the Yugoslavian state to survive and to continue developing.
“consciously developing out of its backwardness”
Jesus H. Christ.
You say Serbia should develop and have good relations with its neighbors.
Let me remind you that Serbia is an occupied country. Has been since 1944′, for all intents and purposes.
An occupied country does not ‘develop’. Period, Full stop, Ende.
About our neighbors, it’s like me saying to you, after you’ve had half your family killed by some group or entity, and this entity or entities never ever apologized or even admitted to the deed – run along now, and have good relations.
You, Sir, are either willfully ignoring reality, or are delusional.
Germany is an occupied country, too which is not in control of its foreign policy and I would say it definitely has developed since its defeat in World War II.
To be honest, I was considering to add one more sentence like “Clean and friendly relations with all its neighbors, it’s just one has to ask himself how far is that possible with its present Croatian, Albanian, Muslim, Bulgarian & Hungarian neighbors?”, but then I decided to leave it out in order to not end the text that pessimistic.
Nevertheless, what is the alternative: A new round of war(s) like during the 1990s with more killing, more destruction and with refreshing hate on all sides? And then the next revanche by the losing side(s) one or two decades later?
Germany is occupied in yes, but its occupiers had very different plans for it than for Serbia, which is relegated to a source of cheap raw materials and workforce and basically not allowed to have an economy.
And also there is the strange fact that Germany after WWII managed to achieve pretty much all of its war objectives, i.e. to dominate Europe, by different means.
I am not one of those not aware that the Germans even when they were at war with the Anglo(zionists) spared them, for example at Dunkirk. They call that the Dunkirk miracle.. right. Rudolf Hess also comes to mind.
And lets not even get into Swiss banks, looted gold, ratlines, Knights of Malta, BIS, CIA, operation Paperclip etc etc etc.
Serbia has never had any alternative but to defend itself. All our wars were defensive, and anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or, frankly, dishonest.
Our neighbors are sock puppets, it doesn’t even matter who exactly pulls the strings. And the fact that they still haven’t changed their rhetoric, and keep on demanding that we take the blame for just about everything imaginable is just a confirmation their masters will instigate them to attack us again at the first opportune moment.
So yes, there is no alternative but to prepare to defend oneself.
Great overview, thank you Look East. Serbia would do a right choice if relied on that group of liberal politicians in going forward.
In my opinion you have some good points, but I think, as I always said – the best ie practically *the only sources* of information on events in 2ww (without “party color”) can only be found – in the original German documents.
Fortunately, a large number of these documents are available to the public, and a large number are available online for various investigations.
Unfortunately, many refer to fabricated nonsense colored by political views.
Since you know German language very well, I think you will like this link a lot, because it contains many original documents that totally and definitely describe the role and position of both Chetnik and other military formations in the Balkans.
Thank you of the link. The information I collected about Yugoslavian and Serbian history for my personal understanding during the late 80s until the mid 90s mostly came from books and other publications released on German during the 50s until the 90s which I mostly found in the public and university libraries of my town (except from the new editions).
“Der kroatische Ustascha-Staat 1941-1945” by Ladislaus Hory and Martin Broszat from 1964 was one of the most informative amongst them, but my actual topic is neither politics nor history, but rock music from Eastern Europe. So in case you prefer to rebuild Serbia on Radomir instead of Draža Mihajlović, it would be fine for me, too.
Sorry, I forgot the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu3ojWi0fFY
Thanks for link.
Actually I like Smak too :)
On the other side, I am only interested in the truth.
Nothing more, nothing less
@ Look East…
Incredibly informative comment full of real historical substance…naming names, identifying the political dynamics etc…a real scholarly summary in a nutshell…
I’m not sure exactly that I follow your overall conclusion because you seem to denigrate ‘communism’ in some of your statements…yet you find a certain communist Yugoslav era as being one of the shining examples…
I think there is much more for someone like myself to learn about these details before I could fully understand your perspective…but I will say [again] that the Yugoslavia I briefly knew [as a western engineer cum tourist in the mid 1980s] was a place and a vibe that inspired me…
The people were relaxed and had none of the shackles of debt and consumerism that cursed our lives in the west and made us miserable to boot. There was no ethnic friction that I could tell…and during my several extended visits [both working and strictly fun] I traveled the entire country, with the exception of Kosovo…
Looking back I think the Yugoslavs had in fact evolved an excellent model of socialism that permitted small mom and pop enterprises, as well as small-scale private farming etc, while keeping the core socialist principles of fairness and social justice…and this much earlier than similar reforms that China implemented so successfully…
Thanks for your stellar contribution hear, and I would love to hear more…
A new book written by one of the editors of “Politika” will be published soon. The book is about the Chetniks in Bosnia and Hercegovina. The main primary source of information is Lazar Trklja’s dnevnik which was recently found in a glass container in a barn in Hercegovina. Lazar was a contact officer with the Chetnik units in B and H. .
I don’t discuss often and I do not to like discuss unnecessary, but when I sow this “analysis” – I was shocked!
How was it possible to put together this analysis?
An *ocean* of original information, exclusively Nazi German from ww2 is absolutely available both online and in paper form. They just need to be read and connected and everything is clear as day.
The whole thing is pretty simple. It can be applied to *any country* in the World.
If one evil force occupied a country the people who living in this country have 2 possibilities:
1) fight against the occupiers.
2) accept the occupiers as commanders and execute their orders in their own country.
It is never ever – easy to cleary understand (after the occupation and war) – who really fight occupiers and who collaborated, since politic came after…
Especially because of many false documents produced after the occupation.
Probably and logically, there is just one way to find out it.
Only one way!
The documentation of occupier.
Why? The occupier – documents the meticulous situation on the ground so that he can more easily control it.
And same with Nazi Germans…
Germans do not documented in very detail everything, because they would like that comunists accuse cetnicks for colaboration – *after the war*.
They documented – exclusively – for the control of situation.
It is perfectly clear only (I repeat *only*) – from the occupation documents who fought the occupiers and who carried out the occupation orders.
And so it is in every state.
As mentioned, there are massive (I really mean massive) amount original documents in german language scanned on the net and available for research.
I will just put a fraction of those documents in original version (german) – which absolutely (I repeat *absolutely*) destroyed narrative in this analysis.
With pure German documentation from this period – only.
The original documents are in german (I suppose you Saker, know german, because you mentioned that you work in Switzerland), but there are also translation in serbian of many of them.
The Chetnik Movement of DM (Draza Mihajlovic) – fighting the Communists (supported by the USSR) – with Germany aid…”
Together with German SS units, Montenegrin Chetniks against Partisans around Danilovgrad:
Chetnik Brigades in Herzegovina (town of Stolac) together with the German army – “achieve success” against the partisans, ie 10 Herzegovina Brigade:
The Germans describe the situation in Valjevo-Uzice and make it clear that Chetnik formations still need to be strengthened. They confirm that the Chetniks … are under the command of German Major Weil:
“… Occupation Formation Relations – with Chetniks (10/15/42):
– In the German occupation Zone -> Chetnik organization advances …
– Italian (Italian fascists) Zone -> full cooperation …
– Chetniks – a reliable ally of the Germans … ”
Together with the Ustashas (Croatian fascists), under the command of the Germans – the Chetniks also participate, wearing a white band around their sleeves:
This is a really small, tiny fraction of German (original Nazi) documents that detail the role of the Chetnik movement – as *absolutely* collaborative.
The Chetnik movement, which was also not uniform (some Chetnik commanders clashed with each other, as evidenced by German documents), but practically all the time under the total control of the occupiers.
Moreover, complete surrender to the occupier is a major feature of almost all Chetnik factions with occasional propaganda lamentations about aid from the West.
This propaganda is written in capital letters in front of everyone’s eyes, but those who do not want to see it will not:
A) Anglo-Zionists organizes “colored revolution” in Belgrade (27.03.1941) as Serbs want to fight, through their Masonic-controlled officers. (Colleague with nick “Look East” already hinted this correctly in my opinion too.)
B) The king and the ruling top with the highest officers fled to England – (the main land of the Masonic movement).
C) They leave the occupied land leaving her without any guidance – but with pockets full of state money.
D) The Serbs stand up to fight against the occupiers, but the incompetent DM is unable to control (Masonic-controled) Chetnik movement, and instead of fighting the Germans, he fights against the partisans, but under German command.
E) by the end of 1943 the partisan movement was filled exclusively by Serbs.
It was a period of great fierce fighting against the Germans, for on October 13, 1943, fascist Italy surrendered to the Allied forces.
Serbs – but not Chetniks – are fighting these toughest battles against German and Italian fascists.
According to all German Nazi documents available to the public – *Chetniks are absolute associates* of every fascist occupiers (German and Italian).
We will exclude partisan and Chetnik documents for the reasons stated at the beginning.
This so-called Chetnik movement is under the complete control of the Anglo-Zionists, whose ultimate goal is the complete extermination of both Germans and Russians.
Serbs are just “little Russians”.
Notice the pure Masonic sign on the Chetnik flag:
The most deserving man for the rehabilitation of the Masonic Chetnik movement in Serbia is Vuk Draskovic.
He was then Minister of Foreign Affairs in the Government of the SRY and rightly considers himself responsible for this shameful act.
Today, he is a major proponent of handing over Kosovo to Albanian criminals, i.e. to the Anglo-Zionist gang:
One can ignore these facts and continue on your own. (As aforementioned V. Draskovic)
One can even try to censor the fact. (nothing new under the sun)
Hoewer, the truth is always – one.
The Masonic propaganda of lies, despite the vast amount of German original documents that vividly show the actions of the so-called Chetniks as – *proven contributors to the invaders* – definitely does no good to the Serbian people.
Just imagine trying to justify these Nazi associates to the Russians:
The Truth is extremely important, and when traitors to the homeland become heroes and heroes are described as villains – that country has no future.
This passage is not understandable. Please clear what you mean:
“Moreover, complete surrender to the occupier is a major feature of almost all Chetnik factions with occasional propaganda lamentations about aid from the West.
This propaganda is written in capital letters in front of everyone’s eyes, but those who do not want to see it will not:
A) Anglo-Zionists organizes “colored revolution” in Belgrade (27.03.1941) as Serbs want to fight, through their Masonic-controlled officers. (Colleague with nick “Look East” already hinted this correctly in my opinion too.)
B) The king and the ruling top with the highest officers fled to England – (the main land of the Masonic movement).
C) They leave the occupied land leaving her without any guidance – but with pockets full of state money.
D) The Serbs stand up to fight against the occupiers, but the incompetent DM is unable to control (Masonic-controled) Chetnik movement, and instead of fighting the Germans, he fights against the partisans, but under German command.
E) by the end of 1943 the partisan movement was filled exclusively by Serbs.
It was a period of great fierce fighting against the Germans, for on October 13, 1943, fascist Italy surrendered to the Allied forces.”
A to E are the only capital letters you use in your text and above you write “This propaganda is written in capital letters”. So A to E has to be understood as propaganda and if so as proganda of whom?
But how can that work out when B and C are true (at least the first part of both statements), D seems to be not true and E definitely is not true while A has to be looked at and figured out in detail.
And that’s exactly the reason why I avoided a clear statement about the British involment into the coup: Because the military coup is such a crucial event for both the German-Yugoslav war and the further course of Word War II and in my memory I do not get all the important details together anymore.
Just two points: Without the coup the German attack on Yugoslavia would not have happened and the German attack on the Soviet Union would have happened earlier so that the Wehrmacht highly likely would have reached Moscow.
English is not my native language and that is obvious misunderstandings. Those “capital letters” from A-E you can change with numbers too.
That is my personally understanding of the situation based on archieved documents I found.
Unfortunately, you wrongly interpreted this phrase. I do not mean on those letters…
I will try to explain…
The chetnicks mainstream today repetedly states that – not comunists, but England – organised demonstrations in Belgrade 27.03.1941.
Even state TV made a mini-serie about this occurence with clear hint to britsh secret service behing the military coup.
So the British secret service would like to drag Yugoslavia into the war. I would not be surprised at all that this is actually the case.
Britain was already at war and lost it (much like in 1ww).
The methods of the “color revolution” have not been since yesterday.
Although accuracy cannot be attributed to “modern history” – nevertheless, the alleged historical roots of modern masonry are in England.
These secret societies were extremely active and powerful in Yugoslavia (Belgrade) shortly before the beginning of 2ww.
they are probably as strong today as they were in the long time before 2vv, but it is difficult to prove by any documents.
The king and other pinnacles of the Serbian aristocracy were extremely in favor of Anglo-Saxon interpretation of the world.
Unfortunately, this is still the case today, unlike the ordinary people.
So, that is why I personally claim with great certainty that both the king and the aristocracy – were part of the Masonic secret society.
This was also the reason that the so-called Chetniks had a flags with heavy Masonic insignia.
In other words, the ordinary crowd had no idea who really controlled them, and those touching scenes from the Saker documentary
in which the old Chetnik describes “loyalty to the king” – can only cause regret for the enormous level of indoctrination.
Actually not much different that ISIL indoctrination today in Syria.
Definitely – an accurate statement:
You can look for yourself:
(frame no. 105)
Heeresgruppe F, 1.10.1944
Vortragsnotiz für die Chefbesprechung a 2.10.
– – / Serbia: […] Chetnik posture still different. Serbian Chetniks fight with the Wehrmacht against the Communists.
Even D.M. himself sought German insurance for the planned transfer of its headquarters from northwestern Serbia to the area southwest of Belgrade.
However, this plan did not materialize. In contrast, Chetniks in Eastern Bosnia, Herzegovina, and southern Montenegro are hostile.
They move toward the shore to contact them and get Allied protection from the Reds in the event of an Allied landing.
From a safe source, it is learned that D.M. explicitly condemned their anti-German attitude.
The statement is true.
Truth a little roughly written but easily proven by facts and logic.
Namely, JB Tito himself in an interview with Churchill said that by the end of 1943 the full partisan units were – almost exclusively – Serbs.
Now I don’t have time to search for a link to that conversation, but even on the page
… one can find the composition of partisan units by first and last names through the years of war.
For a foreigner, it is a little harder to distinguish nationality just by reading the names of the fighters, but for people from the area of Yugoslavia, this is not a problem.
(in truth, sometimes it is not easy to distinguish directly between Serbian and Croatian names, but Muslims are easily visible)
Just two additional points:
1- Germans were already at war with the British and wining it.
2- If someone wanted to totally wear out both opponents, then he would probably try to get them into a similar position for wear.
Namely, if one is indisputably stronger than the other then “wear out” loses its meaning. We looking it today in Israel politics to the wahaby idiots.
As a matter of fact the Germans were not winning the war with the British. They had lost already the air ‘Battle of Britain’ and had to postpone indefinitely the Operation Sea Lion, the invasion of England. They were not exactly winning the war in Africa either (where they made the same mistake of jumping to save the Italians).
But they would have lost the war in Russia even if they would have invaded in spring.
As a matter of fact, this discussion is just a speculations, but logically, if Nazi Germany stayed out of SSSR, it would break England in couple months. (France was already broken)
‘Logically’ the Germans should have won in WW1, had they not ‘won’ in Russia! Americans would have intervened anyway, even without Pearl Harbor. It had practically in September 1939 with the “Cash and carry’ policy, followed in September 1940 by the ‘Destroyers-for-bases deal’ which prefigured the ‘Lend-Lease’ Act of March 1941.
More than 80% of names and surnames could be find among both peoples, Serbs and Croats.
Very often is difficult to make any difference
Religion determined who is who when these nations were created.
I agree in part.
However, when you include logical thinking and support everything with original documentation from that time, you clearly come to the following conclusion:
The Serbs made up the largest part (over 90% until the end of 1943) of filling partisan units.
Unfortunately, I have not yet found the link to this JB Tito twitter.
However, I found the original document from ZAVNOBIH which specifically speaks of the special role, priority and special merits of Sbrba until that year 1943.
On pages 183-188 spoke about it – Đuro Pucar, Rodoljub Čolaković, Avdo Humo, Edward Kardelj ….
2. logical thinking:
At the beginning of 2ww, if one was a Serb in the Nazi-controlled so-called “Independent State of Croatia”…, he had practically only 3 options:
A) He waits until a formation (filled exclusively with Croats and Muslims) invades his house and kills him.
B) To join the Chetniks, to whom the Germans and Italians gave weapons (therefore, they had protection), but therefore had to obey the orders of the occupiers and fight the partisans.
C) To join the partisans in the fight against the occupiers, but also against all those quislin formations that carried out the orders of the occupiers.
Croats and Muslims definitely had no such problems.
Based on relevant historical documents (where we consider relevant only German documents in this case) – it was precisely the Serbs who had to form the backbone of the partisan units.
This is confirmed by this document from ZAVOBIH.
Obviously and logically – most of the Serbian people have opted for option c, i.e. fighting occupiers (and collaborators)
Unfortunately, Saker and his team in charge of the Balkans did not generally consider the vast number of facts and logical thinking.
Exiled Yugoslavian writer Milovan Djilas said it best ” the hardest part of being a communist in Tito’s Yugoslavia was predicting the past.”
Response to “The Partisans took the battle and were almost destroyed but managed to fight through the Germans lines to freedom. How heroic this battle was shows the fact that among 7,000 dead were 600 doctors and medical staff who didn’t want to leave their wounded comrades. No Partisan surrendered!”
I did not want to add to the discussion about good partizans bad chetniks or vice versa. pro-partizan people are talking what we learned in history classes in former Yugoslavia. I know, I have learned that too. I have changed my mind about 1983, when two books were issued by a publisher in city of Tuzla, named Neretva and Sutjeska.
I remember a poem that “… 6,000 proletarians have fallen ….” in battle of Sutjeska, so 7,000 comes with mark-up, but it is still about the same. The devil is in details. Those two books offered presentation of the respected areas, for tourists and hikers, no politics, no history, just mountains, rivers, trails, elevations. In the second half, they simply listed copies of German, partizan, italian orders and dispatches, taken directly from museums – public – nothing hidden there – in chronological order. So we could reconstruct the events ourselves. From the books we see that on Neretva, chetniks were destroyed, “to never recover as a serious military force”, and 3,500 wounded partizans were saved by crossing the river over blown up bridge. Then Germans appeared at the destroyed bridge – two weeks later. Partizans moved to Sutjeska valley. There were no Germans nor Italians there, yet, at the end of May and beginning of June. No attacks by Germans at that time. After 2 weeks of waiting, partizans suddenly were on the move – the attack was coming. Where did they move? The partizans were split into two groups. Group one: Tito, top command and operative forces, about 15,000 went westbound, towards Kalinovik and Sarajevo. About 6,000 (or maybe 7,000) made the second group. They were 3.5-4,000 wounded and medicall staff – Central Hospital. Most of wounded were immobile, and required 1-2 persons to help them walk or to carry the stretchers. That adds about 2,5-3,000 fighters, under commend of Sava Kovachevic. Incidentally, Sava was the only non-communist member of Tito’s central command. Sava got orders to cross Sutjeska, then Piva and go to Montenegro. The catch is, that part of Montenegro is the very sparsely populated, due to lack of water and conditions to grow food (Pivska planina, Durmitor, Zabljak). How were they supposed to feed the wounded and the fighters helping them? That was never an option, because of the topography. It was impossible to pass that route with 3,500 immobile and sick. The route requires climbing up from Sutjeska canyon to plateau of Vucevo, 800-1000 m ascent, then 1000 m descent to Piva canyon, then up again, same 1000 m, to get to Pivska planina (no water, no food, really inhospitable terrain). Impossible, but Sava managed it – they eventually got to Pivska Planina. Bummer, Italians (who were occupation forces in Montenegro at the time) put artillery on surrounding peaks (Maglic) and had Sava and Central Hospital under fire. Sava had to go back, the same route, down to Piva Canyon, then up to Vucevo, down to Sutjeska canyon. Alas, when they were on Vucevo, they could see that the Sutjeska valley was occupied by – Germans. Sava was not surrounded. he was on a maountain plateu, looking down to the valley occupied by Germans. No partizans in sight. Again, tehy left about two weeks before Germans got there. Sava dissolved the division, ordered people to try to somehow survive in small groups. Himself, with a dozen or two fighters tried to storm german fortifications and they all perished. Interesting thing is that where we have now the principal monument (those two huge rocks), that was where German kitchen was Who would put kitchen and supply units in the center of encircled area? Noone sane, and Germans were no insane, so we conclude there was no encirclement. In school, they taught us there were 3 concentric rings, and somehow Sava broke two of them and got killed on the third ring. Nonsense. Sava and Central hospital were simply scarified, while , Tito escaped to safety of central Bosnian mountains. The numbers add up – Central Hospital plus Sava’s division make about 6,000 (or 7,000 if you want). If sava and his group were 7,000, and very very few survived, what were the loses of the so called principal operational group an the commnad? they are not zero, but according to the documents in the books, the losses were about 50 (fifty, five zero) people.
I don’t want to go to more details, just to show what one can see if he uses his own mind and eyes. Documents in those books were not from some declassified archives, or from pro-chetnik sources. They were/are from very public places like museums, nothing to hide. Claim about moral high ground for partizans do not stand, cannot stand.
Now, why were parizans simply waiting for two weeks in Sutjeska canyon? That is not secret either. Tito was waiting for British envoy who turned out to be son of Winston Churchil. They could have moved central hospital to relative safety of central Bosnia, but the did not. Once Randolph Churchill landed, Tito ordered Sava to go east, and himself went west, not burdened by wounded and sick. It is also interesting that allies changed their mind about who is fighting whom in Yugoslavia, around that time – mid 1943.
Everything is in the open, we just need to look, and use own minds.
Just a few comments I need to add:
– In the Sutjeska battle, on German side, there were 127,000 German, Italian, Bulgarian, Ustashas and Croat solders, helped by heavy artillery and 300 aircraft. The Partisan side counted of 17,000 fighters (Proletarian divisions (Koca, Peko, Sava) with the Tito’s Supreme Headquarter, then Krajina, Lika, Banija, Herzegovina and Easter Bosnia brigades). There were also 3,000 wounded partisans and Central Hospital.
– The battle lasted from May 13 till June 23, 1943 and was held in mountainous unhabitable region.
– It started at Cajnice, then continued in Celebici, Zavijat, Zlatni Bor, Bastasi, Vucevo, Sutjeska,Tjentiste (Kosur, Ozren), Milinklade, Balinovac, Zelengora, Miljevina, and finished by winning the last battles at river Praca.
– Near Zabljak Tito waited for British Military Mission who arrived by parachutes on May 27. It was led by Col W. Deakin, not R. Churchill) (not R. Churchill)
– Three days later Koca Popovic arrived to Vucevo plateau with his First Proletarian Division (Tito and British must have been with them). From there they descended to Sutjeska River, and made a breach for all other units to escape that way. He went north to Zelengora clearing the path for the rest of Partisans.
– Tito didn’t want to go after him, he waited for Sava Kovacevic and the Central Hospital. There he lost two days waiting, remained almost the last, was lost for a day, until managed to find a partisan unit.
– That was battle at Sutjeska in short.
– Some 800 wounded partisan managed to survive the battle of Sutjeska and joined the main units. Sava Kovacevic and his 3d division was almost destroyed, (along with the most of the central Hospital), only several hundred of his troops survived.
– Partisan won the battle because they survived and preserved fighting power strong enough to liberate entire Easter Bosnia with partisan detachments from that area (Shekovici).
– Next month Red Army won at Kursk, and soon liberated entire USSR, (many Serbs joined the Partisans). In September Italy capitulated, 6 Italian divisions surrendered to Partisans (not to their servants Chetniks). (many Croats and Muslims joined the partisans) etc.
– Randolph Churchill arrived to Tito’s HQ end of January 1944.
– In August 1944 Tito met with Churchill in Italy. After that King Peter called on all Draza and his soldiers to join Marshal Tito’s Army and participate in the final fights for the liberation of Yugoslavia (some chetnik units did it, Draza and his commanders ignored the king).
– By spring of 1945 Tito had an army of 800,000 soldiers and liberated Yugoslavia (At the end of war Draza had 20,000 demoralised soldiers in northern Bosnia. 10,000 led by Pavle Djurisic decided to surrendered to Croat Ustashas just to be all killed nest day. Draza and his 10,000 soldiers decided to go back to Serbia and soon were totally destroyed by 3rd Corps of Tito’s Army).
Thank you very much for this post.
We can see here the raging ideological battle amongst the Serbs themselves, with few Croats trying to (as they always do) feed the fire. It is ironic how some of them, Croats and Bosnian muslims, lament the good life in the former Yugoslavia, while absolving themselves from any contribution to it’s demise. it is beyond comprehension how they can talk about the Serbian nationalism, knowing full well that the only place today, where all nationalities and ethnic groups live in harmony, is Serbia itself. All this while the Serbs, other than those in Serbia and Republic of Srpska, are harassed, chased and dispossessed.
My message to all Serbs is, and I am one of them, to look up to Russia and learn how she resolved her contradictions, which in many ways were and are similar to the Serbian ones. Look up and see how people march under the hammer and sickle with photographs of their heroic forbearers and, at the same time, rebuilding their orthodox churches. Stop tearing yourself from within and unite around the common cause – preservation of your dignity, your humanism, your rich tradition, your indisputably charitable soul and above all – your unity. Embrace your history in full as your communist partisan sacrifice has an equal place alongside your orthodox christian.
My personal thanks to all who have contributed here much more than I ever could.
While your intent is commendable, you somehow fail to realize that the Russians in essence took back the country after they dealt with the Trotskyist elements. They regained sovereignty.
Serbia on the other hand lost it in 1944′ and has yes to free itself. That is not to say anyone who participated in the partisan struggle is inherently evil or something.
In fact, those who woke the f up after they saw who Tito really was (a Western player if that even needs to be stated) and what he was doing, probably mostly kept their mouth shut to stay alive, or better yet to keep their family safe.
Who do you think Goli Otok was for? Woke Serbian communists, mostly.
The lady in the video, as she said, was too young to understand what was going on in the war, learned a lot after the war, as we all did. Different time had different problems and required different answers. (Koca Popovic was the best Tito’s commander during the war but ended up 30 years later calling him ‘an old poisonous spider’ and essentially turned against him during the ‘fight against the liberals in Serbia’). They both were communists, one Marxist-Leninists, the other liberal Marxist.
When talking about Goli Otok (1948-1953) grave errors were maid towards many innocent people. But let’s see the context: Stalin didn’t like strong and successful people who emerged during the WWII, like Marshal Zhukov and Marshal Tito. He demoted Marshal Zukov, the winner of the battles for Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk and Berlin, to the level of a garrison commander. In Yugoslavia, he invited Communist Party of Yugoslavia to overturn Tito, for ‘abandoning the true path to socialism’, and in the same time called on Yugoslav Army to kill its supreme commander Marshal Tito. And deployed half a million solders at Yugoslav borders ready to intervene. Tito asked the Party and the Army what they thought about the Stalin invitations. Who was on Stalin side or undecided was arrested by Rankovic’s UDBA and was sent to Goli Otok. Tito showed that he was ready to defend its country, Stalin blinked and withdrew the troops!
Why many want to blame Tito and nobody blames Stalin? Nobody want to ask what would have happened if the Party and Army followed Stalin’s order; what kind of country Yugoslavia would become. A free liberal Orthodox Chetnik country?
What hurts everyone, communists the most, was shameful unhuman treatment of their comrades at Goli Otok. When Aleksandar Rankovic visited Goli Otok he was appalled: “What have you done to our comrades?”
They deserve an official apology.
Dear God give me patience.
Do you not understand that Stalin despite his many blunders, misjudgments and outright crines saved Russia from the brink of oblivion? Do you think it was easy to root out the Trotskyites? Do you really not understand whose project the bloody October revolution was? Well, if you don’t the Russians certainly do, now. As does any Serbian worth his name.
You are not able to discuss one topic.
I provided an answer to YOUR question about Goli Otok.
Are you being serious here, does it sound like I was actually putting a question to you? We are on the same topic BTW, and that is the trojan horse of communism used by the West in their attempts to destroy Russia and Serbia.
It is precisely those who ended up on Goli Otok that we need to honour and remember. Most of them communists and partisans, most of them Serbs. And yes, I know who rules Serbia today. I know who betrayed it. My message is not directed to them.
Dear Zeljko ,
You have really listed here some great things, in which I completely agree with you.However, in my personal understanding, what happened (and still ongoing) in Serbia – never happened in Russia.
It is almost unbelievable how much lies and fallacy are presented in last 30 years on Balkan, particularly Serbia.
And these lies are stronger today than ever.
Without any (I repeat *any*) support in the relevant documentation, except in the AZ propaganda film that has lasted for decades in this region.
The only relevant documentation of the Chetnik Masonic movement are – Nazi German military documents.
This disgusting AngloZionist scam is embodied in a fraudster called Vuk Draskovic.
At the time of the judicial rehabilitation of the Masonic Chetnik (including DM-Chetnik) movement, the Vuk Draskovic was the foreign minister in FRY and one of the most responsible for this shameful act.
Today he is a major proponent of handing Kosovo over to the Siptars, that is, ultimately, Anglo Zionists.
Inquiring minds would ask a simple question:
Who controls this crook?
…In Serbia today, flooded with AngloZionist propaganda… Nothing…
The Masonic Chetnik movement presents itself to young people as “Christian Serbian”, and unfortunately, even Saker, with his reputable blog, is involved…
In Russia, it is practically impossible to glorify the “Russian Liberation Movement”.
Because it was a collaborative movement under the total control of the Germans.
Similar to (Masonic) chetnicks.
However, this is not just possible in Serbia, but even worse…
Parallel with equating collaborators with freedom fighters, the dominant AngloZionist propaganda spewing massive lies against the partisans, identifying them with “the communist regime”.
The communist regime undoubtedly made many mistakes in the SFRY, but we can say that it made even worse mistakes in the USSR.
However, this is not a reason to propagate lies.
This is not possible in Russia, and unfortunately in Serbia it is, because the entire current government (like Karadjordjevic once upon a time) is under the control of AngloZionists.
I understand that it is a little more difficult to investigate Masonic control over the royal lineage of Karadjordjevic, for a foreigner like Saker.
However, one sea of Chetnik flags with heavy Masonic insignias is available to him at his first search.
Personally, I am extremely surprised by this analysis.
A person who has been exposing AngloZionists propaganda (including the Vatican) for years – in the case of Yugoslavia (looks like) assumed that the Zionists, Masons and Jesuits did not exist before the emergence of Yugoslavia.
As I said, I am sure, such a thing is impossible in Russia.
There are lies, but they cannot replace the truth.
Heroes remained heroes, even when they were under the control of the Communists (who were definitely taken over by the Zionists at the beginning of 1917).
Simply because they fought for the survival of the Russian people.
Similar to YU-partizans.
Define the truth based on relevant documentation (only nazi-German/absolutely excluding both AngloZionist and comunist) – and stop spreading AngloZionist of lies!
That should be the first step.
The next step is to deepen the research and understanding of Anglo (Zionist / Jesuit influence in the fight against the entire Slavic people.
(Germans are actually, Slavic people in origin…)This e-v-i-l is millennial and does not begin with Theodore Herzl, the founder of so-called Zionism who is originally from Zemun (Serbia).
Or, by the way, why have the Israelis already bought over 60% of the best locations in Belgrade?…
It has happened in Russia. They had a civil war, millions were killed, and they were also raped by neoliberals and fifth column. Their saviour was Putin (and smart people around him) and they got to understand what was going to happen to them after they saw what happen to Serbia (bombing). Also Donbas, Ossetia, etc etc.
Please don’t mock the dead.
As, a preson born and raised in the territory named Bulgaria, I am deeply saddend by the common deception of the simple fact that the nation of Bulgaria is dead.
It died probably during the (unheard of outside the country) civil war during the 1920-ties. It was a pure civil war, not like Spain, or Russia, with (nearly) no outside intervention. Since its not documented the estimates vary,but common agreement is at least 1/5 of the population died. Not by external enemy .. but by their own brothers, sons, and fathers. There can be no idea of togetherness and brotherhood after such event. Even today the word “brother” has a nearly jokefull meaning, roughly like “Dude”.
The Bulgarians survived 500 years of Ottoman yoke(mostly thanks to Christianity), they were the last to be libareted. Still managed to form a strong country,with Russian help , with extreamly high patriotism among its citizens. There are countless examples ,but I will just mention the fact that during the Balkan war and WW1 we had more then 200% of the estimated manpower, thanks to volunteers , young and old or sick,or emogrees living outside of the country . Everyone wanted to help liberate their brothers living under Turks, Romanians, Serbs and Greeks. When we had two national disasters after the wars, the whole idea of”nationalism”died. It was a thing used by our foriegn rulers to further their own ambitions. That is what killed our spirit and sense of unity. Thats what led us to the civil war. Imagine a man sacrificing everything for and idea, that turn out to be a blatant lie and a way for someone to make a profit out of it.
After that, up to these current times, we are just a bunch of people speaking roughly the same language(quickly being replaced by broken English) ,people who completely lost any understanding of roots, Christianity , patriotism. Just a bunch of lonely survivors.
Patriotism isn’t a badge. Its a heavy cross to bear for those who understand it.
I hope the Serbian people manage to stage their revival like the Russians.
For “us” here… I do not believe it is possible.
I write those line with saddnes and no ill feeling towards anyone.
Best regards and wishes,
P.S. Since reading Dmitry Orlov’s “The five stages of Collapse” I am terrified to find that from all of the case studies , we are most like the Ik people . Imagine that.
Appreciate the caveat of the author and the directness of saying he/she was a monarchist. It was very troubled times, “Red versus White” does not encapsulate it. I would hope this site at some point says something about brave General Dovator.
As the nephew, son and grandson of Mihailovich Chetniks I thank you for your piece on Gen. Mihailovich and Serbia’s past, present and future. Today Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev visits Belgrade to commemorate the city’s “liberation” 75 years ago in WWII; which actually only substituted Hitler’s slavery for Tito’s. The current occupational regime in Belgrade made up of Titoists and Opportunists refuse to recognize the first and only Serbian resistance movement to Hitler and Communism: Gen Mihailovich and his Chetniks. Belgrade knowing to allow any further light to shine on Gen. Mihailovich and his Movement would only hasten their collapse!
(Historical coincidence? Tsar Nikolai and his family and Gen. Mihailovich were both murdered by the communists on July 17th.)
много вам хвала и спасибо большое!
There is a saying is Serbia that in order to survive surrounded by many Serb haters we should stick to Father in the sky and Mother Russia on the ground. The issue with general Mihailovic was this: the king (21 years old) who represented the first one (including the church) was in London under masonic Churchill’s control while Russia was not pravoslav at that time. And what would you pick between Father and Mother who are not in love? He picked the first one. History will still have to say if it was a right decision.
So far I trusted very much the analyses presented by The Saker. Until I read this article. To say that I am disappointed is well below my feelings, it is an understatement.
What is clear from the WW2 is that the Tchetniks and the Partisans fighted each other instead to fight together against the invaders.
What is also clear is that there is place to rewrite the history of that period. In either way.
That you are quoting 3 US president speaks for itself.
That you are providing a link to a BBC “documentary” also speaks for itself.
Along that line you should trust what the BBC and the US are saying on the Skripal case.
Now about monarchy and religion.
Read again Samuel 8 to understand that there is incompatibility between the two.
And read again Matthew 6:24 too.
Religions and monarchy belong to the past of the humanity. Are you a man of the past?
One people divided among 3 different religions and it triggered both 3 nationalisms and a civil war supported by foreign powers in their way to destroy Russia who is the real target, when Soviet Union was already destroyed by foreign forces and traitors inside the SU and to weak to support Yugoslavia.
Do you know this document?
God bless you Saker, and thank you for your words. A stronger Russia means a stronger Serbia, and the fate of Russia will be the fate of Serbia. We Serbs know that our only true friend, true brother, and true ally is Russia. Together we will prevail, I have no doubt.
May God bless, protect from harm and strengthen the Serbian nation.
The Forgotten Five Hundred — Gregory A. Freeman— Published by New American Library—2007
A great book that tells the truth of the heroism of the Chetniks under General Draza Mihailovich saving the U.S. airmen shot down over Ploesti and on the route to and from, and the treachery of the British throughout the war towards him and his men.
This great documentary film shook me violently. My acquaintance with the WW2 Chetnik-Partisan history was through Fitzroy Maclean’s Eastern Approaches. I took it for granted that Maclean’s account was the whole truth. I read it as a second or third year university student in Australia, when I had a special friendship with a Serbian boy and his parents. I told his father what I know about the Yugoslav resistance. This gentle gentleman attempted to enlighten me about what the work of the Chetniks really was, then put up in kind silence with my pig-ignorant gainsaying of him. It is just today, all these years later, that I have understood how right he was.
Maclean explains that he was Churchill’s personal envoy to Yugoslavia, on a mission to find out who is really fighting the Germans there. He reports back to Churchill that the fighters are certainly the Partisans, and that the Chetniks had retired to the hills and grown long beards to appear fearsome, emerging occasionally to harass the Partisans. On his advice, Churchill withdrew British support from the Chetniks and directed it to the Partisans.
Quite a few years later, I came upon the information that Maclean was holidaying with Tito on the latter’s private island off the Croation coast when the great Draža Mihailović was executed in what was by then firmly Tito’s Yugoslavia. That upset me a lot. I remembered the love with which my friend’s father, an erstwhile King’s Guard Officer, had spoken of that great man. My huge admiration of Fitzroy Maclean receded somewhat, as did my near-veneration of Tito.
I still understand Serbian a little. Listening to the Serb voices and turns of phrase, watching the easy Serbian elegance of the officers, seeing the once-familiar scenery and hearing the place names I still remember, I cried rivers of happy-sad tears. At heart I am a Serb, although I was born Hungarian. Serbia contains my childhood.
Draža Mihailović, the man for whom patria and honour were sacred! Do build the new Serbia on him. And God Speed.