Il-20. Russian MoD Accuses Israeli Military of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE – Watch the Official Briefing
The Essential Saker IV: Messianic Narcissism's Agony by a Thousand Cuts
The Essential Saker III: Chronicling The Tragedy, Farce And Collapse of the Empire in the Era of Mr MAGA
This is Russia, objectivly weaker party in the Syrian theatre, threatening Israel. Make no mistake about it, this is a threat to Israel. Are the israelis willing to continue with this behavior… its anyone’s guess. But, I think they’re not. Israel just spent their joker, at the cost of 15 russian lives, and they will not try it again.
Russia won in Syria. It is just hard to swallоw that fact. како
Russia maybe threatening but next time they will still not do anything. Lieberman already made it clear that whatever policy they have against Iran in Syria will not change. meaning to say that they will continue what they planned to do in the coming future. this is a clear message to moscow that war is coming to you if you hit our planes. we know of course that this is israel’s brand of arrogance par excellence!
Israel can only fly near and bomb on Syria if Russia allows it.
This time the Israelis may have gone “a bridge too far.”
Not only did they arrogantly misuse the deconfliction agreement (nothing new there) but this time their behavior resulted in the deaths of 15 Russians and the downing of a surveillance plane, all with a studied lack of remorse.
This is betrayal. There is no trust after betrayal.
Doesn’t matter what the face you put on, what polite or arrogant words come from a stiff upper lip. Israel betrayed Russia and Netanyahu betrayed Putin.
…. Doubtful it’s business as usual any more. Also, Putin has his electorate to consider… pension reform has already cost him what? 10 points at the polls?
What will this cost if he does nothing?
Russia to supply S-300 to Syria within 2 weeks after Il-20 downing during Israeli raid – MoD
this is highly welcome to all who want justice of the downed Il 20. i hope this time this is for real and not just rhetoric. and if it comes to reality, the syrians would not hesitate to blast israeli planes that aims it even on stand off.
Anon, your comment is out to lunch to put it mildly. Lets have a quick recap here:
1. The NATO gang uses Israel to provoke Russia, by downing IL-20.
2. Later the Israelis freakout, and run to Moscow to kiss Russian feet.
3. When Russia tells them to F-off, they say “Downing of IL-20 is Russian Fiction” I ask here, if it is fiction why did they run to Moscow?
4. Shoigu says Russia will ship S-300 to Syria, and here I am going to repeat what Saker said some time ago: S-300 were delivered to Syria in Crates quietly. I’ll add: but Syrians were not allowed to use them. It’s going to take them two weeks to set them up.
5. Idiot Lieberman lashes out and threatens to destroy the S-300 in Syria. I’ll say to him: “You speak Russian, did you not here the latest? Russia will destroy anyone coming close to Syria. The game is over bud. This is why you are having spaz attack”
Oh yes, check out Colonel Cassad. He has some pretty pictures of SU-35 having F-22 in it’s guns, so much for the invisible plane.
So maybe there is a rogue group of Dual citizens within the Israeli airforce running interference for the CIA? Interesting possibility.
No. Bibi overplayed his hand.
At some point there was hope that Russia and China would separately show the world ‘the new way’, ‘the light’ or whatever. Well it looks like the new way is still the good old one. Russia tried with supposedly more powerful weapons and China with a new economic model. Russia’s weapons didn’t make a difference in the NATO/Israel attack. OK nobody wants WW3 but what was the point of showing them off (other than a sales pitch). Forget about a zillion chess moves ahead for a second and consider if this is not a perfect moment for Ukraine + NATO to get back Donbass and Crimea. After all nobody wants WW3 right ?. What is a mere 15 poor sitting ducks on an ill fated plane when the alternative would be catastrophic. Anyone wants to enlist in Russia’s armed forces ?
If this is the ‘new way’ I would say thanks but no thanks. We’ve seen sanctions galore, false flags, accusations, humiliations at WADA, OPCW, slapping and now we have murders. What else is left.
China is also gradually brought into line with tariffs, sanctions, shows of force in South China Sea. China understands that she still needs the huge western countries’ market to sell to. Africa, South America and East Europe for various reasons cannot possibly absorb but a small portion of China’s exports.
Welcome to the new world order which is the same as the old one. In spite of all this I still think China has a chance but not Russia (at least not until she becomes self sufficient and stops looking up to the West).
Sorry, just my 2 cent view.
Victim blaming, nice
“and consider if this is not a perfect moment for Ukraine + NATO to get back Donbass and Crimea. After all nobody wants WW3 right ?.”
The response that first springs to mind is “Poppycock!”
But it’s not polite so I’ll just stick with “Hell will freeze over first.”
(And for that to happen we need the nuclear winter.)
you are right, to some extent. I would not enlist to Russian army. I will be supposedly drafted by my national one, as a member state of NATO.
Should we be brought to Russian borders with Litovia or whatever shitty place, first I will turn my weapon on commander who orders attack. Than I shall run over to the “enemy” and return back to my country as a liberator with Russian troops… some 4 of my 6 friends are ready for the same treatment for sure, the rest I do not know yet.
well finally the adults have fingered the uncivilised adolescent in MENA,this uncivilised action has been going on for too long a period with terrible consequences for the people in this region,christians,jews,arab,kurds or any other ordinary citizen in this region.Turn every corner here but you can’t notice that this uncivilised political entity has contributed one way or the other for the blood shed .
This is damning for the Israelis. The mis-information about the location of the strike and the lie that the planes were back in Israeli air space is disgraceful, give that they would know that Russia has all the radar data. They will suffer a huge loss strategically as a result, and no doubt there will be other payback we will not see.
No mention of the French or the British in this briefing, but the Russians will have chapter and verse on that.
Also, no indication as to the purpose of the mission, or any assessment of damage, except of the bombed “ammunition warehouse” – but those aerial before/after satellite shots seem to show little evidence that a huge amount of ammunition exploded – in fact it seemed like only building damage.
Why conduct such a mission for such apparent little return? We are left to speculate that is was a provocation to trigger a wider war. I have read elsewhere that maybe the target was Assad who was due to fly?
Yes. But this video is also diversion marked as information. The Russian don’t want anyone to know what happened, but they have the detail. For the Russians to have been intercepting phone calls between Nouland and the Ukranian wannabees back then, they have ears on everything. No way they weren’t following this in real time and have recordings of most conversations, commands etc. The Russians are leveraging the hell out the Israelis behind the scenes.
The give away for me is this officers statement that, before the loss of contact ‘the captain reported that they had a fire on board and were preparing to make an emergency landing’.
OK, the Russians are tight lipped, but I would have expected a bit more of ‘we have been hit and sustained damage’ in the proper form of military precise speak.
No mention of attempts to retrieve a flight recorder.
Israel attempted to re-ignite a war that had just been doused in the Turk/Russian Idlib agreement, and failed. That is all I am sure of.
Russia should tread carefully here. Israel is a formidable opponent and has access to the best military tech in the world. Either self-developed or stolen from the US or Russia. The tweet from Syrian Strategic Researches
which asserted that Israel had used their Dolphin subs in the attack, reminded me of another early report. That is, that S-400 systems had launched missiles during the attack. This is potentially quite troubling if true.
Abomination called Israel is a formidable opponent as much as Russia let it be. So far Russia let them run the show without any consequences, for the sake of imaginary ‘partnership’ that exists only in heads of Kremlin
leaders. We have all just seen Israel’s gratitude of that ‘partnership’.
Expect more ‘tragic events’, as it is not going to stop with downing of Russian plane, unless Russia radically change its approach in Syrian war towards Israel and western vultures. As I said before, beating head choppers was an easier task, but dealing now with their puppet masters is another level. Russia better be ready to step up, if the goal is to stay in Syria for a long period.
David: the ” best military tech in the world” got its arse handed to it by Hezbollah in 2006. And Hezbollah now is a more powerful beast. There is no comparison with the power of Russia. Israel is cocky because it believes the US will always rescue its ass.
formidable opponent ! HA ! how do you explain 2006 then ?
the only people who believe that are the zionists themselves ! thats the only way they can sleep at night ! after going to the border and having a picnic watching their soldiers*murderes* paralyze palestinian children
The Israelis bombed Syria.
Syrians shoot down the Russian IL 20.
Russian did nothing to warn and defend their IL 20.
Do not try to fool me that the integrated Russian S 400 systems cannot provide an Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
Please disclose these data, including the path of the missile that shoot down IL 20.
The S-400 Triumph air defense system integrates a multifunction radar, autonomous detection and targeting systems, anti-aircraft missile systems, launchers, and command and control center.
The system can engage all types of aerial targets including aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), and ballistic and cruise missiles within the range of 400km, at an altitude of up to 30km. The system can simultaneously engage 36 targets.
The S-400 is two-times more effective than previous Russian air defense systems and can be deployed within five minutes. It can also be integrated into the existing and future air defense units of the Air Force, Army, and the Navy.
Two mobile missile batteries have been delivered to Khmeimim air base in Latakia province, while another two went to Tartus naval port on the Mediterranean Sea.
So if the friendly fire soot down IL 20 then:
The Syrian S 200 system has detailed data including the radar position of IL 20 and the trajectory of the missile.
If Syrian refuses to disclose, then Russian S 400 systems has more detailed data.
Looks like that none of them is willing to cooperate.
This may be a historical cover up for this fatal incident.
“let’s call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool”
Maybe it was hacked
The S-200 has a speed of 2.5 kms per second. Assume conservatively that IL-20 and F-16s were 50 km away. That’s 20 seconds + launch acceleration time which probably isn’t much. Once launched it goes autonomously for the largest signature in its flight path -remember the S-200 is an over 50 year old operational system.
I doubt the S-200 is hooked into the S-400 system and I have no idea whether there is an S-200 fail-safe abort, but 20 seconds is not much time to even acknowledge there is a problem.
I also doubt the left hand knew what the right hand was doing. That will change.
And let’s call a misdirection a misdirection.
The Israelis lied to the Russians. Giving false info about your intentions in a hot area can result in tragedy. All the more galling since you have an agreement to inform each other of any moves in Syria. The Israelis told the Russians they were attacking *northern* Syria where the Ilyushin was originally stationed. The Israelis attacked *western* Syria instead, a province where the RF airbase is located, btw. Upon getting info of a pending Israeli attack up north, RF control ordered the IL-20 to fly *south* in order to get out of the way. If you’re from the north and flying south along the west coast of Syria, you’ve a very good chance to get into the crosshairs. The F-16s don’t have to fly due north in order to attack the area, they just have to key in the target coordinates, north, south, east or west and keep on flying a pattern. No way the Russians can know the true target before launch — they’ll just have to trust the Israelis’ word.
The Syrian air defence is integrated with the RF AD system. In won’t be wrong to assume that in the west, the RF AD is better than the Syrians’ since RF has radar out at sea. The Russians can see what’s on Syrian screens, and more. They don’t need Syrian ‘cooperation’ to present their case. In fact the general hardly mentioned Syria. It’s more Russia and Israel.
And if you listen hard enough you’ll probably be aware that the general also mentioned civilian flights in to and out of Hmeimim. The Israelis not only disregarded and endangered Russian military lives, they also disregarded civilians lives in the ‘clever’ attack on Latakia. So much for the ‘moral’ IDF.
“If Syrian refuses to disclose, then Russian S 400 systems has more detailed data.
Looks like that none of them is willing to cooperate.
This may be a historical cover up for this fatal incident.”
Cooperate with whom? You mean they aren’t disclosing to you. It was a big incident and the public saw it, so heads of state make a gesture towards the public, but disclose little. But it is a war FFS. How many other operations do you have any info about at all? We still only have a broad propaganda version of the battle of the Somme, 100years after the event. Details of war, command instructions, are rarely disclosed.
Why do you feel entitled, in the middle of a war, for warring nations to give you, a non participant, a factual running commentary?
We know few facts: that the Israelis or France fired on Syria and hit targets. That the Syrians shot to take down an Israeli plane or French ship. That the Russian IL got in the way of a Russian-made missile hitting either of those two targets. The rest is smoke from the warring parties and conjecture from us. They will never tell and you will never know until you put on a uniform and get a clearance rank.
In my view it was extremely fortunate that the IL got in the way. The outcomes following the alternative – the missile met its intended target – are unthinkable.
Those 15 men are the sole reason we don’t have either France/EU or the US/Israel declaring war on Syria.
According to Twitter sources Liberman is in denial:
46m46 minutes ago
Israel Defence minister Liberman to @kann_news: “Nothing has changed – we will continue operating as usual in Syria”
Looks like Russia is building up big time in Syria as Russia has been flying in a lot of equipment to Syria the last couple of days. It will also be interesting to see if there is a Russian reply in Iraq and with Iran, following the terrorist attack there. Putin already told Iran he is prepared to work more closely with Iran against terrorism.
Also, according to Israeli sources Maj. Gen. Nurkin’s talk with the Russian MoD in Moscow lasted for several hours, but others say the meeting lasted 21 minutes, once the Russians realized Maj. Gen. Nurkin, the Israeli Air Force chief, had come to them to lie to their faces they unceremoniously kicked him out.
Finally, one thing that stood out was that Gen. Konashenkov stated outright that Israeli forces are fighting inside Syria as the Russian forces cooperated with an Israeli request to help retrieve a slain Israeli.
The Moldovan thug is just a thug — and an incompetent bully.
As for the repercussions, here is the beginning: http://www.voltairenet.org/article203078.html
“The Russian army is performing a major military exercise off the coast of Syria. This is why air and maritime routes have been temporarily closed in this part of the Mediterranean. … Following this war game, Russia could propose to Syria the adoption of new rules creating no-fly zones and prohibitions on maritime passage.”
“…the Israeli forces are fighting inside Syria as the Russian forces cooperated with an Israeli request to help retrieve a slain Israeli.”
The “chosen” are well-known for their ungrateful character; see a celebration of Purim.
“The book of Esther records that Haman along with all of his ten sons were hanged and that 75,000 Persians were slaughtered by the “visiting” Jews … Hamantaschen are triangular-shaped dough pockets meant to symbolize Haman’s ears and Kreplach are dough pockets filled with ground beef symbolizing the beaten flesh of Haman.” Gross.
(We have a long time commentator here who uses Ann as their screen name.Please pick a name that isn’t in use already on the blog,MOD)
DEAR MOD – that’s funny – but thanks – or reply to her that she needs to add an e or make it all caps or something – just so other commenters can tell us apart – thanks mod –
I suggest Ann other than Ann. It’s got a good beat. I think we can dance to it.
Alternatively, Ann Other.
And in the case of Mordeciah and Ester, Hamman had a plan in place to kill all the Jews in babylon.
Assad does not have a plan in place to kill all the Jews. He was quite content to manage Syria for his people.
The Syrian people were not attacking Israel when Israel/US attacked Syria with well armed – tanks, artillery and US and IAF air support – hordes of ISIS (CIA mercenaries) terrorists. Seven years ago the CIA invaded Syria with its ISIS dogs and set its ISIS dogs to torturing and murdering Syrians, particularly Christians, living in Syria.
In 1967 Israel stole the Syrian land called the West Bank complete with the Syrian people living there who are not exactly thrilled to have become Israeli citizens with no choice in the matter. The Syrians do have a cause against Israel and I imagine hatred runs deep and generationally.
That was indeed very interesting comment by Konashenkov:
“Putting Russian Special Forces soldiers’ lives in danger, it also organized the search for the remains of some Israeli servicemen that died during the past conflicts in an area where the Syrian forces were combating Islamic State (IS, former ISIS) terrorists at that time.”
He is indirectly saying that Syrian forces eliminated IDF special forces elements mixed with ISIS head choppers,
I assume during Aleppo liberation.
I don’t come here much nowadays because I’m sick of the empire’s ongoing bs, in the ME, over Russia, poor little Israel, bullying, theft & fraud, but this headline needs an answer – Nothing, nothing Israel does is negligence, everything is deliberate arrogance because the whole world has it’s back, the whole world’s powerful are guilty since 1900 & who cares for anyone & anything else. The Russian MoD here are making excuses to avoid hurting poor little Israel, that’s all….imho.
“the military leadership of Israel either has no appreciation for the level of relations with Russia, or has no control over individual commands or commanding officers who understood that their actions would lead to tragedy.”
“a clear violation of the 2015 Russian-Israeli agreements.”
“The misleading information provided by the Israeli officer about the area of strikes did not allow the Russian Il-20 airplane to move timely to a safe area.”
“The Israeli jets saw the Russian Ilyushin Il-20 and used it as a shield against the anti-aircraft missiles, while they carried on maneuvering in the region,”
“Israel ‘crossed the line of civilized relations’ with ‘ungrateful response’ ”
“Russia has never broken its commitment to the deconfliction agreement – it has always informed Israel about their missions in advance and has never used its air defense capabilities against the Israelis, even though their airstrikes sometimes put the Russian servicemen in danger.”
“This is an extremely ungrateful response to all that has been done by the Russian Federation for Israel and the Israeli people recently,”
“The actions of the Israeli fighter pilots, which led to the loss of life of 15 Russian servicemen, either lacked professionalism or were an act of criminal negligence, to say the least.”
Pretty damning stuff. Looks like the Russians have had it with the Israelis.
“Uncivilised” and “ungrateful” seems rather strange to be used in this context. I wonder if any Russian speakers would care to elaborate on the nuances of these words in the Russian language. Sounds a bit petulant and whiny in English.
Anyway, hope this tragedy will at the least lead to quicker resolution of the situation without further loss of life.
““Uncivilised” and “ungrateful” seems rather strange to be used in this context. I wonder if any Russian speakers would care to elaborate on the nuances of these words in the Russian language. Sounds a bit petulant and whiny in English.”
To me these words don’t sound whiny. The do sound like words that would be ususual for, say,an American military press attache to use. To me they convey the disappointment (genuine or faked) with Israel’s low character. So, yes, Israel behaves like a dog. To me the words convey a loss off respect.
Katherine, the first Russian word I learnt in conversation (at a party) was “uncultured” (nye kulturny?). I remember feeling, as a Britisher, it was rather strange that Russians should regard a lack of culture as something to be ashamed of. Perhaps “uncivilized” falls into the same category? And by wild extrapolation, I venture to guess that Russians might be old fashioned enough to regard “non-agreementable” and even “not-honourable” as shameful personal qualities rather than smart business practice (as these tactics are regarded in the advanced, pragmatic Anglo Zio Capitalist Western world).
“Uncivilised” and “ungrateful” seems rather strange to be used in this context.
Yes, this stood out for me too. The Russian MOD expects gratitude. from Israel? Come on. Countries don’t have friends, they have interests.
Well, yes, perhaps the Russians are old-fashioned enough to have a sense of honor . . .
Russia Capable of Denying Israel Access to Syrian Airspace – Senior Russian MP
All the huffing and puffing of the Russian military staff is meaningless, as everone knows that this is only for show and that israel will, once again, be given a clean pass, even if a no fly zone of sorts is theoretically put on paper. Sure, there wil be lots of intimated threats and rhetoric, but in my view this is only whining. What i would like to know is: will the “special relationship” between Russia and Israel (and, at the same time, the “special relationship” between FUKUS and israel) keep tying the hands of these non-jewish peoples for ever and ever? What *is* it that allows the jews to keep getting away with literally murder and mayhem and the destruction of entire cultures and countries, even though both the Russian and US militaries are much stronger and bigger than israel’s? What will it take to take some hard action that the israelis understand and truly intimidate them, before they abandon their arrogance and recklessness? Certainly, simply admonishing them with fancy graphics and presentations, threatening them with consequences that the israelis know will never be implemented (at least not seriously) and deceptively calling this brazen attack a “series of unfortunate events” will only embolden them more, inflating their egos even more. Will Russia wait until FUKUS and israeli tanks and troops march into Moscow just so that WW III is avoided? In other words, what is Russia’s real “red line” with israel and the 5th column part that is composed of the jews in Russia?
And *why* are the jews constantly given a “get out of jail free” pass all over the world? What is it that they have that allows them to control the western and asian nations, and thus the world? Am i missing something? Are their paranoid and psychotic claims of being “the chosen ones” in fact, real? Are we to give a free pass to every thing that these people do, everywhere, “just becasue”?
Sorry for the rant, but like many people all over the world, i am so sick and tired of the world and our different and rich world cultures begin disassembled before our very eyes by the jews and their zionist henchmen, while i watch and weep.
For this to stop, Russia, USA and all of Europe should understand the simple fact that they are natural allies and not enemies. They should understand that they are the object of “Divide et impera”. I do not see it happening in the near future, though. European culture which is basically with some unsubstantial diferrences also the culture of USA and Russia is individualistic, it does not stand a chance against tribalistic culture. Unless that change, woe to us.
I understand your meaning, but at the same time, even if all these countries were to manage to be united in a fraternalistic endeavour, i surmise that the same tribalists will stil call all the shots in the end and that if such a fraternity should manage to be initially created, the same zionist tidal forces will break it asunder again.
I never used to have such a bias against jews while growing up. My bias and prejudice has been earned through my own dealings with them and that of countless news articles, both from their own hands (“mouths”) and from their actions which always seem to be directly opposed to their rhetoric (deception).
I have been aware of their strategy of “divide et impera” for at least a couple of decades, and i keep hoping that one day, people (goy) will awaken and take appropriate measures as a collective to curtail and restrict their operations. But each year that goes by, it goes in the opposite direction, becoming more and more of a waking nightmare for humanity. And there is no end in sight (vis: the current shootdown of the Il-20 and the israeli response that goes in the face of the facts – ie: “The Russian MOD is promulgating fake news”, thus adding insult to injury). Obviously, the israelis have not learned their lesson, and why should they? They know there won’t be any real consequences for their actions. I predict that there will be yet another israeli attack soon on Syria, and that Russia will again simply complain but do nothing.
The talmudites are “untouchable”, it seems.
Well when you have ownership of the Western concept of God, combined with ownership of the world money system, combined with ownership of the world media, hence control of the world narrative, you don’t have to say “please may I” to anybody for anything.
I concur. What troubles me is that the total Jewish population world wide is 14.5 million that is less than 0.2% yet as you state, they have immense power due to very few people but in all the seats of power. I just read an article questioning why Judaism is considered a “major” religion when even the Shieks of India are double that number but are classed as a “other” religion. One of the possible reasons was that is always seems to have been classed as one…go figure.
Don’t forget the financial system – the most virulent aspect of modern capitalism-imperialism, which is characterized by a lot of wrong doing in all spheres…
The only way to stop all the mess going around is breaking the corrupt financial system apart.
Rant understood and welcomed.
They are a bunch of narcissistic runts who will stoop to the lowest depths of depravity to compromise those needed to deliver them their ambitions. Those ambitions revolve around a single objective. Total domination of a “one world government”.
Once that key perspective is obtained all else falls into place, particularly the obsequious manner in which a majority of national leaderships treat the narcissistic state of Israel. It ties in some otherwise difficult to understand things like pedophilia within power elites, the activities of Jewish academics, and the global finance system. Yes, it is a huge conspiracy, and not only in theory.
That is why the Jews suffer endless pogroms, and have a history of being kicked out of places they where previously welcome. It is because their leadership, the pharisitic cult for want of a better description, endlessly shaft those who offer them sanctuary, often along with the adherent rank and file. The Russians should have known better. Perhaps Putin needs to read “200 years together” by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, or have an underling assemble the key lessons contained therein for a briefing.
Well I think there are character traits in many people that can be exploited through bribery, blackmail, threats, false accusations, assassinations and such niceties. After all how many of us haven’t sinned. Those who are most sinful can be promoted using occult or not so occult techniques to leading positions by the ‘smart’ (and depraved) ones. If this happens continuously over hundreds of years (as it has already) you end up with most peoples being led by such individuals who do not give a damn about their people. Do not expect these individuals to take action against those few chosen ones who control them.
This is in may humble opinion how we got to this situation. To make it short I would say that money rules the world. Break this pattern and things might change. But nobody wants to do it. Communism failed mostly for this reason.
It would be interesting to see a computer simulation of world evolution.
I watched the video that Bro93 recommended in another thread, the last interview that Julian Assange gave before being cut off from communication with the world outside the embassy in which he is living and imprisoned.
The video was interesting in a number of ways – it was the first time I actually listened to Assange at length instead of reading about him.
GE’s comment above about wanting to watch a computer simulation showing human reminded me of something very striking that Assange said, relating to our evolution and fate:
Assange noted that math suggests that there are millions of planets that could produce life, and that it is mathematically very likely that life exists elsewhere. So why don’t we receive radio signals from other planets the was we are broadcasting radio signals into outer space?
Assange’s theory is that complex civilizations that attain high technology fall very quickly – the AI takes over and planetary collapse occurs, ie, there were planets sending us radio signals, but they destroyed themselves centuries ago, and there will be more sending out signals in the future and wondering why no one is replying to them.
@Anon (the one interested in Sci Fi). A more interesting answer to Fermi’s question (why is Earth not honoured with messages from advanced civilization in outer space?) comes from Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek. They don’t want to know us, we are to “uncivilized”. Are they extra-terrestial Russians?
Even more interesting, Wilczek goes further and suggests that NASA is looking for life in the wrong place: in warm, damp places like Earth. But all the really advanced civilizations would already have mastered Quantum Technology, and would be absorbed with Quantum Computer Games in the coldest, darkest, quietest regions of the Universe — where NASA never peers.
There are 9 different types of angels and so many demons in outer space,but they don’t send radio signals. At the end of the history,the demons are allowed to take shapes and show their faces,due to humans low humanity.
The aliens…X Files.
Dr. Maroudas. Hi, I always read your comments here with interest and enjoy them.
I don’t believe that what Assange suggests is in the realm of science fiction; do you really believe that we can survive a combination of advanced Artifical intelligence, corporate fascism, and nuclear war, and ecocide much longer?
“It would be interesting to see a computer simulation of world evolution.”
Well, I like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCn8ux2gbs (LOL, ‘the sun is a deadly laser’)
[From the moderator:
Evolution is off topic here, please take any further discussion to the Moveable Feast Cafe.]
The details provided by the Russians and the tone in which they were delivered makes them almost certain to be true. They are convincing as they are damning.
Yet to say that that Isreal used the Il-20 as a human shield and radar cover to hide behind is to give still Israel the benefit of the doubt because there is a darker interpretation: Israeli intended for the Syrian air defences to shoot down the Il-20; that it was intentional. That it was the objective of the mission.
If I try to shoot someone, but by mistake I shoot and kill my friend, because the “someone” hide behind my friend, then who is to blame?
If, as my friend goes down, I won’t shoot at the “someone”, let the “someone” go, and after blame the “someone” for the death of my friend.
In this case there is a cover up, because I considered the “someone” my friend too, letting him go alive.
If I try to shoot someone, but I’m hiding behind *his* friend, using him as a human shield, then I am at fault.
It is called “human shield.”
We all know this term.
and the uses to which it has been put.
That is, it is a genuine phenomenon.
But is has been used to vilify those who actually do live among the people they are trying to free (namely, the Palestinians).
This is not a case of “human shield.”
But the Il-20 event does seem to be a genuine case of “human shield”: using another to (1) avoid being shot at and (2) cause the “shield” to be s hot at. Seems like (1) has been proven, but (2) has yet to be proven, or openly acknowledged, or charged by the Russians.
Criminal negligence – okay. What next ?
Perhaps, they could be dragged into War Criminal Court? First though, they must be captured by the Russians. Which is not impossible, since I believe that at this or other time they might decide to visit Mother Russia.
The “Russians” were less than soft here against Israel. In fact they were out in the open with their collusion as if this was something normal – and even asked: why are you doing this to us after all that we’ve been doing for you?
We all know Russia has been a playing ground for and controlled by Jewish interests from the beginning of the USSR (its “collapse” was a controlled demolition by the same people) but expected a national revival lately (in fact for 20 years already), and to be an exemple for others to follow. But with time, it looks more and more less likely, in fact quite the opposite.
Even if “Russia” establishes a “no fly zone” around Israel, as they seem to suggest elsewhere, it will rather protect Israel LAND from OUTSIDE attacks rather than limit its power which is INTERNATIONAL.
It seems to me that the only political and military figures left that truly dare speak truth to power are Nasrallah, Rouhani and… Erdogan (though grossly misunderstood here). Really sad…
” It would be interesting to see a computer simulation of world evolution. ”
Easy one. A steep fall of humanity over a short period of time.
It is time for Russia to prepare very seriously for war. Same for Iran. Poland offered US 2 billion dollars to build a military base in their country. Iran should offer Russia and China maybe more to build not one but an arch of military bases . Even if they have to change the Constitution. China should try build military bases in all the countries they import oil or other resources from .
The empire would try to isolate China economically and cut all the vital resources inflow and turn her against Russia. Like a huge body builder with tiny lungs forced to run marathon.
I don’t know if this, besides western corporations greed was the reason on a long term to let China become a big power house.
This on a short term. On medium and long term ( if we survive),at least food for people. Not like in Venezuela ( here food first and then military bases) Interconnected economies,investments. Getting rid of dollar( the ultimate weapon ), proactive in avoiding color revolutions,divide and rule conflicts and proxy wars and always but always telling the truth and the Truth. Exactly what western elites hate.
Not censoring the media but giving alternative views.About color revolutions,proxy wars,9/11,staged chemical attacks,Skripal,governments corruption,secret services wars,illegal immigration,gender politics,the erosion of family,school,religion,nations in the western world,the build up of the worst dictatorship in the history of mankind,etc.
About the Truth,spreading of The Good News,later on!
“The empire would try to isolate China economically and cut all the vital resources inflow and turn her against Russia.”
GE’s reflection was that money rules the world via the characters whose trait is to worship that. The system which enables that carrot is Capitalism and is the same in China, Russia and “the Empire” – the character traits of this class of people from China is no different to that in Russia (or “the Empire”).
“I don’t know if this, besides western corporations greed was the reason on a long term to let China become a big power house.”
Currently around 70% of Chinese industrial output is now produced by non-state controlled business firms, and over 80% of the industrial workforce in China is now employed in the private sector.
The result is that Chinese/Asian greed has the same outcome as everywhere else https://www.rt.com/business/427232-us-record-billionaires-wealth/
“The United States accounts for 25 percent of the global billionaire population, as the home of 680 fat cats. This is followed by China, which has 338. Asia overtook North America for the first time as the home of the most billionaires.”
Why do you think it matters which nationality of these “smart/depraved” ones you are ruled by?
“I don’t know if this, besides western corporations greed was the reason on a long term to let China become a big power house.”
The problem, or the trajectory, as I see it, is that as feudalism disintegrated in the West, two thing were happening simultaneously: (1) the growth of the use of money to pay for both things and, most important, services (such as military service) and (2) the growth of industry and economies based on industry and the need for markets. AS industrial society progresses and more and more markets are needed for products and services, the world compettion for markets and control of markets picks up. This is what we have seen since at least the 18th C., with the nascent USA in the lead to dominate the whole world so that it controls all the markets for its products and resource needs. DAvid Ray Griffin, in The AMerican Trajectory: Divine or Demonic, describes this underlying drive of the USA very clearly and shows how American “exceptionalism” has always, using one vocabulary and pretext or another, been the “benign” expression of this will to dominate all of the world’s markets. To force them open and then to control all internal politics so that they must accede to American demands. Every world conflict has been seen as an opportunity by the USA to do just this.
It couild be said that the whole world needs an economic #MeToo movement. Or are our allies “willing victims”? Is the relation with, say, Europe really consensual?
Now, the whole problem of USA economic aggression (spearheaded by covert actions and ulimately military force) has been compounded by the unholy synergism between this original American “exceptionalism” and the Jewish “chosen” rigamarole, coupled with the Jewish/Zionist control of media, finance, and now “owning” Israel as an additional military entity that operates without limits. Israel has become the visible tumor of a systemic cancer. An alignment from Hell.
My compliments for your comment. Only I would have written ‘loot’ in stead of ‘dominate’ ;-)
You can find a very interesting account of the consequences of the transition from feudal military obligations to the need to pay for military services via cash in John K. Thornton’s A Cultural History of the Atlantic World. The connector here is the need for silver, from New World mines, to finance European wars.
This is one of the best history books ever. Super-readable. And chock full of big picture insights about political economy, established religion, and other topics that that I had not prev. encountered.
Here is a concept: suppose an objective goal of directly, unequivocally crushing the Russian strength in Syria, but without guaranteeing the Russian countering, and the promised asynchronous escalation; how would this be done? Does the Skripal drama serve as an educational model of sorts, after all, despite its weaknesses it does work convincingly on nearly all Americanized audiences, and those of a 3 sec. attention span. The Saker has made a point of highlighting the significance of the Russian 5th columnists, who may, in all actuality, serve as more of a center column when the chips are down, in terms of a popular consensus. Is this the needed effect, but how to achieve it, when already the thrice daily media-versal thingification and belittlement has only accomplished so much? Well, Russian-implied sinking of innocent battleships seems to be the most plausible avenue for the current theater, as the chlorinated helmet-bombers smells stale even for this day-old fishy news. How can Russia be embarrassed/media-embargoed into quitting her stated do-and-die policy? Escalation is instantaneous, even retroactive, with the right embellishment — wink, wink. If Russia can be suckered/hustled into throwing that first counter-punch, then the escalation that follows, or preceded for that matter, may surpass any nine-elevening in its cryptocratic origins. Or none of the above . . .
Russia to supply S-300 to Syria within 2 weeks after Il-20 downing during Israeli raid – MoD
better late than never ^^
The S300s were “on order” for quite some time but fulfillment was delayed at Israel’s specific request. In fact, delivery of the S300s themselves (overdue as you say) may actually turn out to be less significant than the other two measures announced in that same article.
Better control systems “which are [normally] only supplied to the Russian Armed Forces” would seem to be at least equally important in the circumstances. And electronic countermeasures which would “suppress satellite navigation, onboard radar systems and communications of warplanes attacking targets on Syrian territory” sounds like a major step as well.
the shit has hit the fan,as far as the war mongering, uncivilised hotheads are concerned,enough is enough, time for a ‘punch up’ if more uncivilised acts are committed to help registered terrorists by the hot heads. assad gets s300 ,a gift for being civilised and cool headed.Coastal gates to hit syrian people by friends of ”white helmet ”is closed from the west.Turkey has been blessed by us to work with russia to clear isis in the desert east gate.North is guarded by the sochi protocol,and south has the new fangled s 300.
show is over ,genocide in syria ends or is about to soon enough.
That ups the ante, seriously. Lets see how cocky Israel is now. The most serious comment from Shoigu was that Russian military would take additional steps, as required. Is Israel ballsy enough to take the risk, assuming that the US would back them? And does the US have the cojones? Its a “make my day” statement from Shoigu, clearly with the full backing of Putin and the military.
yeah! the US is not U as of now,
it more divided now ,so it is a ‘project under construction’ busy and self mutiliating ,as there is a real divorce going on between the ‘old guard ‘ made of some bad hats from the intel community, homegrown and international, and the ‘new guard’, still not in control even after two years by the present potus,the executive has control over only the good part of the pentagon ,the hidden part maybe uncivilised too,the judiciary is still singing the liberal hymn of the old guard, cleaning it is being stonewalled by half of the congress with ”cia honeytrap ploy”
so the ‘side kick’ of the uncivilised hotheads is missing in action or is unable to kick in as required, bad moon rising for the uncivilised hot heads,i know they needed a sacrifice for yom kippur but autumn equinox play by the rising star from the east is playing havoc with the uncivilised hot heads ,who wanna cry hark and release the dogs of war on the populace in mena.
that there is a soft coup underway in the US, sorry i mean to say DS ,if you don’t believe this 9to5er ,listen to a sitting senator from the VS who said this just yesterday,”there is a beurocratic coup”
why do i ,not text in ‘proper language”…..dontcha know the google bots are loose?
Interesting. Hopefully no more bombing of Syria.
This proves that Putin is an Israeli stooge.
The Israelis complain that it was bad equipment used by Syrians that caused the mishap.
And Putin promptly improves the equipment.
No more proof needed.
Your mind is stuck in a closed loop, Jiri.
Russia, that is Putin, gave the rope to Israeli to hang itself.
Now, Putin the Jew-lover, according to your closed loop thinking, has hung the IDF on three military measures that make Syrian defenses the equal to Russia’s. They have the IFF system never given to anyone outside Russia before. This means Syrian airspace is Russian for others to deal with. In the war against Iran, Israel and US just lost big time.
Putin is a judo master and just threw the Israelis to the floor.
Open your mind, Jiri. Clear thinking is called for.
Forest or trees?
What is also left open by Putin in this move by the MOD is the offer to Israel to cooperate in the war against radical terrorists. They can provide Intel and even fly missions with the Russians. Putin will judge their reaction.
Open mind, my friend. Don’t lock yourself inside a closed loop.
Unspoken by the Russians is reparations. Israel should be offering to pay for the plane and loss of life. The Russians most likely won’t take a dime, but the offer is the thing. We’ll see what develops.
Larchmonter, Jiri’s post is a joke and it flew right over your head. I almost fell out of my chair laughing at it and your oh so serious reply. Thank you both for the laugh.
You are welcome.
Israel, Israel, Israel. Can only be understood once one realizes that Israel is the Kabbalist Mafia’s imaginary bride, more a vanity symbol and mind control tool of the Mafia’s by way of deceit conquest of the whole world than a nation state.
The Mafia doesn’t care about Israelis – Jewish goys who mostly hate and despise the Mafia with fervor – but will defend ‘its’ Israel that plays a crucial symbolic, ritualistic and eschatological role in the Mafia’s fascist, Zionist world subjugation plans, as scripted by the best Hollywood writers and the most demented rabbis.
Therefore: Russia will never go on the offensive against Israel, but – as hinted at in this briefing – she will take all necessary measures to make Israeli attacks on its assets in Syria and elsewhere so costly and painful, that Israel, if only in a tactical sense, might be forced to hold back and lay low for the time being.
To expect more from Russia would be silly.
Well, that is enough from my point of view! And as time goes by, the contradictions will increase and the system will eventually be replaced by another one, less contradictory, more human. Russia has done all it could do – and it was fantastic! The rest of the world has the responsibility to continue pressing for changes, as we are all responsible for the outcome.
Anyone else think it’s a hidden warning of things to come that this time the MOD gave us a detailed history of recent Russian assistance to Israel while discussing a military event? It’s not like these guys usually take a meander down memory lane.
Them Ruskies are really pissed off – reckon they see Israel’s behavior as that most unforgivable of cardinal sins …. betrayal.
Izzie would do well to study the Turkish downing of that Su-24…..
They should accept their responsibility, apologise and make reparations but…
Israel might gobble like turkeys but they’re too chosen to learn from turkeys.
Just coincidentally of course, that Russian closure of east Med airspace (for drills) ends just after the 74th UNGA begins…. Anyone know – will Putin be there? Perhaps to tell us about his “everyone will notice?” I understand his American protégé will be chairing? (The Waffle Waitress is so excited about it she almost pissed her pants.)
Oddly too, this time, I haven’t heard the Americans mouthing off how they support their ally…. Not this time or have I just been watching all the wrong news?
@ Cat Pillar,
I did not hear any word of support to the isreali – but, then, what is there for them to support? Actually, the Russians did praise the American military for keeping their word – and this is good diplomacy!
See this just now in RT:
‘Significant escalation’: US warns Russia over S-300 missile sale to Syria
Woa. If they follow through with these points, it will be another step on the escalation meter, as this will guarantee F-16 losses for Israel, if they attack again. Not only S-300s, but full (or nearly full) access to Russian surveillance data and EW systems will make it very hard for Israel to launch these raids without taking losses.
The statement was the typical Russian display of calmly issuing far-reaching statements without any unneeded emotional theatre.
In any case this might prompt the criminals to go for it in the next 2 weeks.
forget about the s300 ,dontcha read in-between the line?..the s 400 is active since the yom kippur sacrifice, bring it on hot heads.
Shoygu just announced this on russian TV – “S300 will be set up in Syria within next two weeks.”
Link for a 3:22 min video, in russian: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/
Сирийским вооружённым силам в течение двух недель будет передан современный зенитный ракетный комплекс С-300.
Он способен перехватывать средства воздушного нападения на дальности более 250 км и одновременно поражать несколько воздушных целей.
Обладая высокой помехозащищённостью и скорострельностью, комплекс существенно укрепит боевые возможности сирийской ПВО.
Подчеркну, в 2013 году по просьбе израильской стороны мы приостановили поставку в Сирию комплекса С-300, который был подготовлен к отправке, а сирийские военнослужащие прошли соответствующую подготовку.
Сегодня ситуация изменилась. И не по нашей вине.
В прилегающих к Сирии районах над акваторией Средиземного моря будет осуществляться радиоэлектронное подавление спутниковой навигации, бортовых РЛС и систем связи боевой авиации, атакующей объекты на сирийской территории. Убеждены, что реализация данных мер охладит горячие головы и удержит от необдуманных поступков, несущих угрозу нашим военнослужащим. В противном случае вынуждены будем реагировать в соответствии со складывающейся обстановкой» (с) Шойгу
Even so, Russia will continue to trust and make deals with Israel. So smart…
Guys, i think all this was just a test. Israeli decided to test de accuracy of the equipment sirians have to dispose in aereal defense and at the same time to test the engagement of the russians in the sirian theathre. Fails were exposed and the russians already said they will send some S300 baterys to integrate with the sirian defense. Finaly we will have the chance to see this sytem in action and at the same time we will know if the russians are in Siria to play bol or not.
Liberman: Israel To Destroy S-300 Systems If Syria Employs Them.
Yes. The Pharisee ( Liberman) speaks as if the S300 are Palestinians.
The Pharisee Nation is cursed.
Even the Son of God, Jesus Christ Himself called them ‘Children of Hell’.
” Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees you hypocrites!
You travel through land and sea to win a single convert and when
you have succeeded you make them twice as much as a Child of Hell as you are”.
~ Mathew 23:15
There is more to something than meets the eye.
During the attack Russia’s newest anti-air defenses Systems in Syria were active.
This is a Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
Major GTACS functions include:
• Command Planning and Direction
• Aircraft Control and Warning
• Close Air Support Coord and Control
• Airspace Management
• Airborne Airstrike Coord and Control
• Ground Target Sensor Surveillance
• Tactical Airlift
GTACS battle management elements include: • Air Operations Center (AOC)
• Control and Reporting Center (CRC)
• Control and Reporting Element (CRE)
• Air Support Operations Center (ASOC)
• Tactical Air Control Party (TACP)
The AN/TPS-75 Radar System provides a “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS) via radio, telephone, microwave relay, or satellite communications link.
Russia’s newest anti-air defenses are in Syria — and the US should be worried. Apr. 11, 2018, 4:51 PM
Russia has a layered defense system protecting its bases in Syria that could prove difficult for American jets seeking to strike Syrian targets.
The system is composed of Pantsir-S1 mobile point-defense systems and S-400 missile systems. The Pantsir-S1 can take out low-flying vehicles and missiles while the S-400 can destroy high-flying targets.
Russia’s air defenses are significantly more capable than American counterparts, especially when working together.
Both the Pantsir and the S-400 were brought to Syria years ago by Russia. Notably, the Russian systems, working in tandem, could take on both low-flying and high-flying targets, and could be a problem for US forces attempting to strike Syria.
The Pantsir, known to NATO as the SA-22 Greyhound, entered service in the Russian military in 2012. Its primary role is that of point-defense, meaning it can defend from low-flying aerial targets within a certain area.
With Russian Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS) active, everything that was moving at list at 100 km was visible and is recorded.
S-400 missile system.
The 92N6E (or 92N2E) is a multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range which can track 100 targets.
The S-400 uses four missiles to fill its performance envelope: the very-long-range 40N6 (400 km), the long-range 48N6 (250 km), the medium-range 9M96E2 (120 km) and the short-range 9M96E (40 km).
So with S 400 active, the Russian in Syria had “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
They know the entire trajectory of the launched missiles from start to end, at least the missile or missiles that shoot down IL 20.
The Russian know everything what happens on 9/17/18 night but they are not telling the truth.
There was no need for any warning from Israelis “Partner”, because they (Russians) were well aware what was going on, based on theirs ” (real-time) radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
There is more to something than meets the eye.
It is important to remember that Russia has never interfered in Syria’s self defense with regards to Israel, It has become very clear that they never intended to. That is Syria’s own business. All the Russian air defense systems that are in Syria are only for the protection of Russian assets. The Russians setup a system with the Israel IDF to allow them to keep out of that conflict. This system was based on trust that both parties would notify each other in time to avoid mishaps.
Although it seems odd to allow your host country to be attacked while you have the means to prevent it, that is the arrangement the Syrians and Russians have.
Keeping this in mind, the Russians have been upgrading the Syrian’s air defense capabilities, and this latest incident confirms that they were not going to act unless Russian assets were threatened. This was mentioned indirectly in the briefing. Only the Syrian’s were to be involved in defending their own airspace.
It is now apparent that the interlinking of the Russian and Syrian air defense systems didn’t give the Syrians access to the Russian systems, they probably got a bigger picture than what they had before but that was about all. The Russians on the other hand could see what the Syrian’s were seeing. But they couldn’t tell the Syrians what they could see without breaking their agreement with Israel. Tough decision.
I agree with you that the Russians would have known in real time where the Israeli aircraft where at that moment, but not what their intentions were since the IDF didn’t give them that information prior to their mission starting. After the first bombing run the F-16’s regrouped then one broke off, it still was not a threat to Russian assets even though it was defacto intercepting the II-20. The Russians had no cause to think any differently.
It was however a threat to the Syrian air defense and they responded. There is no question about what downed the EW airplane, it was a Syrian S-200 missile. The question is why did the F-16 pilot maneuver at this time and in this manner? Was he opportunistically using the II-20 as a shield for a bombing run? Was he trying to get the Syrians to fire at him with the intention of getting the Russian airplane hit? Only he knows why. What is telling is that the F-16’s hung around quite a while after the shoot down.
There is nothing sinister about the Russian behavior, they were adhering to their agreement with Israel. They ordered the II-20 out of Northern Syria as a precaution because of the information they had received form the IDF. Everything was going OK until some jet jockey got clever and saw an opportunity offered up. What it was we will never know.
The universe works in strange ways, and this incident has now forced Russia to get off the fence and help its host country a bit more.
As an ex. Chief Operative of an Artillery Brigade I have experience about theatre of war.
It isn’t an air theatre, but here I’m talking for the ground theatre.
During a military exercise, using alive ammunition, with 16 pieces of 122mm Howitzers creating an Artillery field, less than a minute before firing, civilians were spotted in the targeting area. Having no time to make a call, from the main observation point I fired a distress-signaling rocket. This is red but, not with red light. It was red smoke. This vent high enough to be seen by everyone and there exploded creating a stationary cloud of dense red smoke. It took only seconds, to send the message “stop any activity”, and saved the life of the civilians.
Did Russian have a red code to send the message “stop any activity” to the Syrians?
If I were at the S 400 battery, as soon as one F-16’s one broke off, and it was defacto intercepting the IL-20, I would send this distress signal to the Syrian S-200 systems.
IL-20 and 15 Russians Military are indeed irreplaceable Asset to the Russian Army.
And in Syria you are in war, not to a Military Exercise.