This issue is one which divides many sincere and good people and which I rarely see addressed directly. And yet, it is a crucial one. Today, I want to address is head on.
The realistic argument (version one)
As Otto von Bismarck said, “politics is the science of the possible”. It is all well and dandy to hope for the best, but unless you are delusional or believe in magic-thinking, you have to prepare for the worst and settle for anything in the middle. There are plenty of conflicts which end in some kind of compromise which neither side likes, but which both sides accept simply because the alternative is even worse. And as Andreas Walsh correctly points out, a “united federated Nazi-free Ukraine” (to use Bezler’s words) is a very tall order. In fact, there are growing signs that the support for the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” (ATO) is *growing*, that the zombificaton if the Ukrainian people is very successful. For example, just two days ago I was watching yet another videoconference between the some citizens of Kiev and some citizens of Donetsk and I was horrified to see that the folks from Kiev still seriously spoke, apparently with all sincerity, about the “Russian army being involved in the battles in Novorussia”. As for the latest Ukie Rada, it is chock-full of Nazi field commanders, death-squad leaders, clearly Nazi politicians and, of course, oligarchs. The truth is that there are no signs of even a slight de-Nazificaton in the Ukraine, quite to the contrary, all the signs are of a rapid and strong Nazification of the Ukrainian society.
That is all true, but that is only part of the picture. A small part.
The realistic argument (version two)
The big problem with the realistic argument above is that is is completely focused on the short term. Worse, it replies to the wrong question which is this: “are there any signs of de-Nazification in the Ukraine or not?” The correct question is very different, and it is this one:”is a Nazi regime in the Ukraine viable?”. That is also a realistic argument, I would argue more realistic than the first one. To answer this question, we really need to answer to sub-questions:
a) Is a Nazi regime in the Ukraine intrinsically viable? That is, in the best of external circumstances, could a Nazi regime remain in power in the Ukraine? In practical terms this means this: can the Nazis prevent the total “somalization” of what is left of the Ukraine? Could they, if given enough support from abroad, stabilize and somehow rebuilt some form of statehood?
b) Even if a Nazi regime in Kiev is viable, can the countries around the Ukraine accept a Nazi Ukraine as a long-term neighbor? After all, Hitler was never voted out of power, it took the Soviet military (with some late assistance by the Anglo powers) to get rid of him. I would argue that there are some regimes which are inherently so terrible that nobody can ever accept them (ISIS for example).
Now let’s begin by the first question.
I don’t think that anybody will deny that the Ukraine is a sinking ship. The Ukrainian economy is gone, finished, dead. There is no money left, no cash, no gold. Right now, the Ukraine is literally “coasting by inertia on an empty tank” and when it finally comes to a standstill things will get really, really ugly. Right now, the regime in power is busy doing all sorts of very “patriotic” but utterly useless things. They are re-writing history books (even though they lack the money to print them), they are accepting non-citizens in top government positions (Americans, Poles, Germans, Lithuanians, Georgians, etc.) and they are changing the name of WWII. Great stuff, for sure, but it is painfully clear that they Junta has no plan to fix the economy and that it won’t even pretend. So we are dealing with a sinking ship whose crew is not even pretending to make an effort to prevent her from going to the bottom of the ocean. How viable is that?
Now let’s look at the second question:
It is also undeniable that neither Europe nor Russia can simply turn away from the Ukraine like they have from sub-Saharan Africa and pretend that it does not exist. No matter how much the Ukraine will end up resembling Somalia, the Congo or Liberia, the Ukraine does exist, millions of people live there, and they don’t want to die. And they have guns, lots of guns. So no matter what the politics are, the EU and Russia will have to rescue the Ukrainian people and neither side has the means or the will do to so alone. That, in turn, means that both sides have a veto power on any rescue plan for the Ukraine. Including Russia.
Russia, by the way, has the option of rescuing only the Donbass, which is the richest and best educated part of the Ukraine anyway, and leave the rest of it to the EU bureaucrats. Russia is also far more capable of isolating herself from a “africanized” Ukraine then the EU. In other words, the EU is far more threatened by chaos in the Ukraine than Russia, and far less capable of dealing with the consequences of that chaos than Russia. And the Russians understand that.
Last, but most certainly not least, no matter who is in power and no matter what the politics of the situation, geography dictates a simple reality: Russia will always be the Ukraine’s biggest trading partner. To think otherwise simply ignores the nature of market forces. In other words, any, and I mean any, plan for the reconstruction of the Ukraine will have to center on the reestablishment of economic ties with Russia.
All of the above can be very simply summed up like this: in the long run, no regime in Kiev is viable unless it has the support of Russia. It is really that simple.
Of course, in the short term and even mid term, the AngloZionists can prop up a Nazi regime in Kiev, but in the long run this is futile, they simply don’t have anywhere near the resources needed to make that happen.
Pretend wars and real wars
The recent flurry of pretend-wars presented to us by CNN have resulted in a complete misconception by the general public of how real wars are fought. We are used to the US attacking, the “bad guys” shooting something back, then the US wins, and everybody goes on to the next pseudo-war. This is not how real wars happen.
First, real wars take years to resolve. I don’t mean pseudo-wars like Desert Storm or the bombing of Serbia. I mean *real* wars. Like WWI and WWII. Or the US war against Japan in the Pacific. Or the Korean war (which technically is still ongoing).
Second, in most real wars the attacked side is mostly unprepared to defend itself, hence the attack. This is very true of Russia, as some of correctly deduced from the Khazin Q&A: by 2014 Russia was not ready to fight the AngloZionist Empire (Russia would have preferred to have the conflict happen in 2020). But when you get attacked, you don’t get to chose the time of the attack, that advantage is inherently for the attacker.
Third, because of this, most real wars begin by a retreat of the attacked party. That directly flows from the second point above. Right now, Russia has “retreated” to less than the full Donetsk and Lugansk regions and she had to “give up” not only most of historical Novorussia, but the entire Ukraine. This is normal and entirely predictable. It is, in fact, quite amazing that the entire Ukrainian military has not managed to subdue two fairly small regions.
But anybody who seriously believes that this is were this war will end is completely naive and does not understand what is at stake here: the very existence of Russia as a nation and a state. Russia will never ever allow this conflict to just freeze anywhere near the current line of contact. In fact, Russia will never allow a Nazi regime in Kiev to remain in power and, as I have explained above, Russia does have the means to prevent that.
The old folks in the Donbass who immediately compared the current war to WWII are correct. In both cases, these wars were about the very survival of Russia not only as a nation and a state, but even as a civilizational realm. The fact that WWII was fought mainly with the German Wehrmacht while the modern war is fought primarily by advanced propaganda techniques makes absolutely no difference. In both cases we are dealing with an attempt to destroy “Russia” in the largest sense of the word. Having met a lot of people who lived through WWII, including Russians who lived in Germany, and having studied the history of that war, I would argue that today’s level of russophobia is even worse then during Hitler’s times. At least during WWII most Germans were not brainwashed into hating Russians (that kind of crap was only believed by NSDAP Party members, and that not even by all!), whereas nowadays the russophobia has become generalized and completely hysterical, especially in the USA and the Junta-controlled Ukraine.
If you can, read the Ukrainian nationalist press, listen to their speeches, read their websites, including social ones, try to expose yourself to as much real Ukrainian nationalist thought as you can and you will come to realize a simple thing: at its very core, the “Ukraine” is nothing but an “anti-Russia”. The Ukraine as a concept does not have a positive content, in fact, it does not even have any inherent reality. The Ukraine is only anti-Russian, it is defined by its opposition to Russia.
Historically, the Ukrainian project was first created by the Papacy as an “anti-Orthodoxy”, but following both the decline of Christianity in the West and the rise of nationalism the “Ukrainian project” turned from being primarily anti-Orthodox to its modernized, secular, version – being anti-Russian.
Just like Judaism is, in historical, cultural and religious terms, nothing but an anti-Christianity, so is “Ukrainianism” just an “anti-Russism”. You think that I am kidding?
Just look at the freaks in power in Kiev: US-born immigrants, Jewish oligarchs, bona-fide Nazis, Uniat priest, “Gay-rights” activists, death-squad commanders and pro-European students. Tell me, is there any idea, any real value which unites this freaks zoo? Only one: hate, rabid hate for Russia.
The ontological relationship betwen Russia and the Ukraine is similar to the one of a electron and positron: combined the explode and release a lot of energy (in the form of violence, hopefully without gamma-rays). The good news for Russia is that it’s mass of matter is way bigger than the mass of the Ukrainian anti-matter, by several orders of magnitude. In plain English this simply means that the “Ukrainians positrons” (the real hardcore Russophobic Nazis) will lose, at least in the long run. Russia’s mass is bigger in economic, demographic, geographic, intellectual, cultural, social, spiritual and, of course, economic terms. The Nazis don’t stand a chance.
So Bezler, far from being naive, is simply looking further in the distance. Of course, the immediate task at hand is to protect Novorussia and allow it to survive the Winter. Then the short term task will be to rebuilt Novorussia (which you should think of as “liberated Ukraine” as opposed to “occupied Ukraine” i.e. Banderastan). The mid term task will then be do reach some kind of deal with whoever is in power in Kiev which will provide temporary but good security for Novorussia. Lastly, the long term task will be to apply the correct political pressure to covertly foster a process of de-Nazification of the Ukraine while appearing to be doing almost nothing (let the Ukies think that they are “de-Nazifying themselves”).
Yes, this will take years, just like any war does. But there is no other solution. It is the hight of naiveté to believe Russia can afford to live next to an “anti-Russia”, nevermind the tiny Novorussia. And, finally, the people of the Ukraine, most of them at least, deserve so much better than to live under a Nazi regime! Yes, the Imperial propaganda today appears to be winning, but the first cracks are already appearing, especially in Europe, and the more the freaks in Kiev show their true face, the harder it will be for the Europlutocrats to sell them as the “good guys” to an already impoverished and mostly hostile European population. This will be just as with the “heroic Afghan Mujahideen” who began as “freedom fighters”, but who were then downgraded to “Islamic Fundamentalists”, then to “al-Qaeda terrorists” and now “ISIS Über-villans”.
After all is said and done, and the dust settles, and the war is over, two things will remain: the fact that the Ukraine is an artificial entity and the fact that nobody will want to re-start that war. In theory, breaking the Ukraine up into several parts is possible, but presents huge risks: the issue of borders is potentially the best way to restart violence and terror. A far better solution is to make sure that each region is allowed to maintain and develop its identity. So for all these reasons, a “A united federated Nazi-free Ukraine” is not only a possible solution, it is the only solution.
Bezler is right.
Is Bezler really naive?
“A united federated Nazi-free Ukraine?”
Please, that train has left the station.
Total fantasy at this point“
You studied WWII?
Hitler did not have against Russia. Hitler had a problem with the Bolsheviks and the community that engineered and carried out the Bolshevik/Zionist Revolution to destroy Russia from within.
In fact, just like Putin today, Hitler did not want war, but the anglozionist empire would not leave the Germans in peace.
Why? Because Hitler got Germany OUT of the anglozionist monetary system (sound familiar?) and make the German economy extremely strong because of it.
They used Poland to sucker in Germany just like they are using the Ukraine to sucker in Russia today.
Hitler appealed to the League of Nations multiple times to put an end to the beatings, lynchings and rapes of ethnic Germans in Poland but London, New York and Paris would hear none of it.
Read “The Myth of German Villainy” to find out what really happened in the 30s. It is all documented. The author, by the way, relies heavily on the work of Solzenitsine.
By the way, to think Putin said Russia has never been subjugated… No country has ever been raped like Russia at the turn of the 20th century…
Today they are on the brink of seeing it happen again.
@Anonymous:Hitler did not have against Russia. Hitler had a problem with the Bolsheviks and the community that engineered and carried out the Bolshevik/Zionist Revolution to destroy Russia from within
Nonsense. Hitler was an anglophile, financed by Britain and the US, who hated Jews *and* Russians whom he considered as subhumans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch). Even in the Middle-Ages the Germans has the saying “Slaven sind Sklaven” (Salvs are slaves). Read Rosenberg if you don’t believe me.
Saker, I agree with your main point – that the Ukraine is an artificial construct. Artificial states like that depend on people believing in them. That’s why I doubt that any Ukraine is viable for much longer. The point will be reached when even the word “Ukraine” makes the accidental citizens of that crazy, failed experiment retch. At that point not even some stitched-together “federation” that bears the name will be possible for very long. All the world’s big shot power brokers can’t keep alive an idea whose time has faded away.
Saker, that first comment is creepy. Glad you replied…
Time to stop the bullshit Saker and stop propagating a Kremlin narrative as if enough evidence was not available one of the senior people to help instigate the war boast of his involvement in doing so.
You speak of Hitler trying to get accepted by London and New York… Huhhhhh… That reminds me of someone else who tried for almost 15 years…. interesting.
Funny how you can’t even put 2 and 2 together in light of what the anglozionist empire is doing to Russia.
It is also interesting to me that a guy that speaks of the anglozionist empire all the time can’t connect the dots between London and New York (Anglo) and Moscow (zionists) against Hitler in the 1930s/1940s
Say, who posed for pictures at Yalta after the destruction of Germany if it was not the very personification of anglozionist power and money?
Anyway, today is a repeat of what they did in the 1930s to the first country that FULLY rejected the anglozionist monetary system
Keep the following analogy in mind as WWIII develops in the next few years:
-Russia is Germany
-the Ukraine is Poland
-London and New York are the empire, as always
-France is the sucker, again (I’m French and a big fan of Soral and Dieudonné, who by the way is on my side on this)
-China is……… Soviet Russia.
Mark my words.
We will see who is right.
It’s not just a hatred, it’s a complete mad kind of hate: madness and hate combined. Or to put it in a spiritual context, demonically possessed.
Look at the German nazi upper hierarchy, who had a background in catholicism (and who were involved in satanism); yats is a Greek catholic – read what the Greek catholic priest in Lviv is reported to have said: ‘summon a new Maidan here against Putin.’
You can’t reason with mad, satanic people like this, in this case you can only kill them – otherwise they will kill you.
Hopefully the mad people in Kiev will do that job, turning on them, as the Ukrainian regime is destroying the country not just in the east.
On the other hand, it needs God to intervene to prevent that, for only He can free those mad, demonic people.
@Assorted Nazi-fanboys: ok, I let you post. You made your point. Now stop polluting the thread with your nonsense. If you try, only /dev/null will benefit from it.
@Jack: Wow, an ‘analysis’ from the reuters blog. I am so impressed! Now be a good boy and go play elsewhere, my blog is not a kindergarten and I have no patience with morons.
@EVERYBODY: I let the retards speak, I am not even sure why, but now we are done with them. If they try again – I will just toss them out.
You know that a majority of people in the west already believe that Putin shot down an airliner, right? That he wants to rebuild the Russian empire? That gays are persecuted in Russia? That he kills journalists? That he is responsible for what’s happening in Ukraine.
Now, try to imagine what your grandchildren will learn in school if Russia is defeated in the next few years (which is quite likely if you ask me).
You people are unbelievable… You saw them completely fabricate an alternate reality regarding kadhafi, Assad and Putin… And you still won’t challenge official history.
@Andreas Walsh: At that point not even some stitched-together “federation” that bears the name will be possible for very long
I am not disagreeing with the problem. But just imagine what drawing borders of various small successor states would look like! That was the single biggest mistake in Bosnia: the friggin borders. I am all for de-facto independence, but I don’t want to see a border drawing exercise as this is the perfect recipe for violence. So we have two terrible choices:
1) keeping an artificial country together or
2) breaking up an artificial country.
I agree that the former is easier. But which is safer?
@Ralph:You can’t reason with mad, satanic people like this, in this case you can only kill them – otherwise they will kill you.
I completely agree with you! But remember Chechnia: it was also ruled by mad satanic people and yet now the Chechens are fighting the Ukie Nazis in the Donbass to defend the Russian minority. Why? Because only a minority of Chechens were “mad, satanic people”, just like only a minority of Ukrainians today. Kill the leaders, and show the people that they have been lied to, and most of them will reject mad, satanic ideologies.
I FULLY agree with you. And in Chechnia Russia did have to kill 100% of all of the insurgency leaders. And one way or another 100% of the satanists in Kiev will have to be either killed or send back to the US and Canada (preferably the former, the latter was tried after WWII). But we are still talking about a minority of crazed freaks – not most people.
Cheers and kind regards,
“Hitler did not have against Russia. “
‘If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. … Our task, the mission of the National Socialist movement, is to bring our own people to such political insight that they will not see their goal for the future in the breathtaking sensation of a new Alexander’s conquest, but in the industrious work of the German plow, to which the sword need only give soil.”
There it is, straight from Adolf’s pen. He saw his life’s work as winning soil at Russian expense, for Germany.
Your writing of the the line above can only be due to a stunning degree of ignorance, or an equally stunning degree of mendacity.
Western Ukies are very naive and or stupid about their ‘european dream’.
Do theses people(students or workers)know that the EU is almost collapsing?The Euro is broken.The EU is in deflation(not seen since the 30’s)in recession,some countries in depression.A vast majority of countries are broken,with stratospheric level of unemployment and debts(even worse for the young sometime above 60 pct).The average salary in Spain is now down to less than 700 euros gross,it used to be around 1000 just 6 years ago before Lehman brothers.I do not even talk about Greece it is below 450 euros/month.
Suicides,immigration out the EU(South or North America,Oceania,Asia)is pushing millions out of the EU.Italy and France are approaching the ‘no return’ zone.Thousand of companies are closed.Anti EU political parties are at the top or very near.I do not give another 5 years for this EU to fall apart.Even the UK banksters want to leave.Regions want to become ‘independents’ like Scotland,Catalonia…there is nothing left for the UKIES.We are not awaiting them at ALL.
Do these people read the news or is the internet censored in banderastan?
They can dream about ‘Europe’,but they will not get any money anymore…or any visa.
Imagine the reaction of real EU people who have to live in poverty,if their leaders tel them’ we need to provide the Ukraine(a non EU country)with ‘x’ billions of euros/USD…
I read that the Ukraine needs a real amount of money which is near 160 billions USD..yes 160 for only 5 years.
If the Ukies default on their debt,what is going to happen?
Does somebody know which IMF austerity measures had been implemented so far?
Not so many to my knowledge.Imagine(that is the real reason why they want foreigners in their gov.)when the real austerity will start to bite?
Porochoco and Yats will be killed or hanged on a Maidan 3.0
Total anarchy will follow.
There are people saying that Kolomoisky is preparing a ‘coup’ to take the full country over with the help of the US and PSsector etc
The AZs’ favorite tools in Europe have always been the Poles and the Ukrainians, who get played every time. They never learn. The trick is to not get provoked by them, which is never easy, but so far, Putin is staying out of trouble. The AZ goal is always to keep both Germany and Russia permanently weak, preferably to have them knock each other out, as in WW II. But what to do if both the German and Russian people wise up and don’t play along with these games anymore? Maybe a brilliant Rhodes Scholar like Bill Clinton can figure it out.
Regarding the invention of the Ukraine:
One main actor for the German plans of inventing the Ukraine as a ram against Russia was Paul Rorhbach.
He wanted to “decomposite” Russia and gave the picture of an Orange (remember the name of the 2004 “revolution”) that gets disassembled slice by slice.
To me he looks like a predecessor of Brzezinski.
No english version of this yet, turn translation on:
So all that is needed is to control the Ukraine’s educational system, dominate the NGOs, and own the media. Then the country will gradually de-Nazify. So how do you do this without taking Kiev? A merely neutral Kiev would never agree to those necessary changes.
Perhaps the disagreement is that you may feel that the people in the Ukraine will gradually come out of their trance without smelling salts. Some of us fear that an economic disaster will not be enough – they will blame Putin, of course.
The other issue is that the US could be happy with a failed state. To prevent that will require boots on the ground.
“one way or another 100% of the satanists in Kiev will have to be either killed or send back to the US and Canada (preferably the former, the latter was tried after WWII).”
Please do not send them here to Canada, we already have enough problems with our neo-cons.
Maidan Prague version on monday?
Czech activists plan to hold rallies in Prague for Czech President Milos Zeman’s resignation.
Wasn’t it the purpose of the Kiev coup and the antics of the Nazi nationalists to provoke Russia into a war on Ukrainian territory, where Russia could be humiliated by NATO’s superior military technology, without the risk of the conflict going nuclear, the ultimate objective being the breakup of a depleted and demoralized Russia into a dozen or so oligarchies?
And if that was the objective, what has changed. Germany is increasingly polarized with the majority convinced of Merkel’s line that Putin is the “new Hitler” who “annexed” (as in stole) Crimea. Nato is delivering military aid to the junta, and Poland and the Baltic trivialities are already slavering at the prospect of killing Russians.
France, which appeared intent on delivering the Mistrals, was slapped down at the last minute, indicating that it has no real independence of action.
For now China appears aligned with Russia, but if things begin to go badly for Russia, China may feel the need to safeguard their Russian gas supply by occupying Siberia and the Far East.
What we are seeing, surely, is the end game in the drive for Anglo-Zionist hegemony. The only obstacles are Russia, first, then China, and nothing that has happened suggests that the AngloZionists regard Ukraine as anything but tinder for WWIII, in which the Europeans will once again engage in a mutual destruction, leaving Amerika largely unscathed.
Coming soon near you ! This is their own promotional video of Ukrainian ultra right wing military unit called Batalion Azov made up from volunteers prepared to fight for Ukraine to get closer to Europe and join EU. I strongly believe if those units did not became part of Ukrainian ministry of internal affairs, the violence in South East of Ukraine would never get so badly out of control. See for yourself what kind of people fight to get into EU. They don’t care whatever they are wanted in Europe or not, only their way is the right way and they are prepared to kill or die for ” glory to Ukraine “. Please note, this is not Russian propaganda – this is their own recruitment promo video.
WWII in Europe was about Germany securing it’s western flank with ‘fortress Europe’ so it could conquer european Russia for Lebensraum. It would drive the Russians over the Urals, where the wehrmacht could keep fit through occassional expeditions. The anglos endlessly delayed opening the second front in the hopes that Germany and Russia would destroy each other.
@CanSpeccy:NATO’s superior military technology
You need to stop watching TV.
It is unbelievable, but I just yesterday read the saying “Slawen sind Sklaven” in a German newspaper. In the article the Russians don’t belong to the “Slavs”, but only the Nations between Germany and Russia. Those are ignored while the German Government makes concessions to the Russians. No idea, when that happened. The title of the comment is “Give back the GDR (East Germany) to Russia!” after that Putin might be satisfied. What a BS for brain-washed people.
@CanSpeccy:NATO’s superior military technology
You need to stop watching TV.
I don’t have a TV!
As to whether NATO’s military tech is superior, I have no basis to judge. But what I was referring to, and should have made clear, is NATO’s apparent belief in its military superiority.
Following the report of the unarmed Russian plane that supposedly blanked the radar screens on the US warship the Donald Cook, I tried to find out whether there could be any truth in the story. In the search I came across a video on the Aegis anti-missile system with which the Donald Cook is equipped and gained the distinct impression that the US military truly believe themselves to be the living incarnation of Star Trek.
However, the actual performance of the Aegis has not been spectacular. Fired a total of around 35 times since the first trial in 1997 (a failure), it has failed in four of the last eight launches.
My own conclusion, therefore, is that subject to an onslaught of supersonic anti-ship missiles, fired by a bunch of rust-bucket Russian destroyers in the Black Sea, the Donald Cook wouldn’t have had a hope even if its radar were not jammed.
Since the Russo-Japanese war, the Russians seem to have been skeptical about the value of surface ships and wisely, it seems to me, have not since invested heavily in capital ships that could be sent to the bottom in a single day.
Trouble is, if the Empire is sufficiently deluded or sufficiently desperate, it may act on the assumption of technological superiority with disastrous results for everyone.
We agree on the aim of a Federalized non-nazi Ukraine.I just don’t see it can happen without fighting for it.I don’t believe Russian troops are really needed (beyond volunteers as in the past).The NAF built up and supplied with ordinance can do the job.There is a lot of unhappiness in the Southeast.And if the Ukrainian forces are defeated as they were being in September I can see an uprising in much of the area.With the Southeast free,that opens a lot of manpower to finish the job in Kiev.I believe the Ukrainian Army would defect or overthrow the junta themselves if they saw the game was up.Then as someone else wrote.It becomes a matter of correcting the educational system and controlling the media to reeducate the people against fascism.Except for West Ukraine where you will need more work.over most of Ukraine, fascism is only skin deep.And even many in West Ukraine are not convinced fascists.Of course this scenario is based on the belief many of the hardcore neo-nazis will die in the fighting.And just as in WW2 only remnants will remain to be dealt with.In the aftermath,the people can decide whether to form a union of the 2 regions.Or for them to breakup into 2 or more states.I don’t see the division as an unbridgeable problem.Everyone knows that Novorossia claims the 8 Southeast Oblasts as their nation.If any others wanted to join,fine.But that should be put to a referendum.Those 8 are overwhelmingly Russian speaking.While some others are borderline,and the others are almost all Ukrainian speaking.But all of that would take place after the defeat of the junta and the liberation of Ukraine from fascism.That is the number one priority.
One question. Is a “united, Nazi-free Ukraine” OK if it is anti-Russia to a certain degree? Ukrainianism is essentially an anti-Russia project, so it is kind of like asking for a Vatican-free Catholicism or at least a Jesuit-free one. The Ukraine has been anti-Russia for 23 years, it is just that the oligarchs cut deals. Now, however, the brainwashing is much stronger and the older generation has died off.
@VINEYARDSAKER: said…Just like Judaism is, in historical, cultural and religious terms, nothing but an anti-Christianity, so is “Ukrainianism” just an “anti-Russism”
Well, the first cannot possibly be true as Judaism existed well over thousand years prior, and ever since was an introverted worldview. (If you don’t know much about it, no need to put such sort of labels. Everybody has a right to preach his own religion, not just the Orthodox Christians).
It is more complicated with Ukraine as it is not in peace with itself, but it is not an anti-Russia. It is historically as much connected to Kievan Rus as Russia. (In some old maps, Rus’ is Ukraine, while Russia is Grant Tartaria. –That was long time ago and is not a priority to settle now).
There is no justification for the current junta atrocities. But Ukraine is NOT that junta, and is not intrinsically anti-Russia. There need to be great caution in placing labels, as they may precisely contribute to the anti-Russian feelings existing in Ukraine.
Those feelings are not entirely without reason.
The thing that strikes weird sounds in this thread, is that all the negative comments that Saker let through are sounding like the commenters are also pro-Novorussia, but hate Saker ???? How weird is that ? You guys ain’t gonna win any war with that kind of infighting.
Maybe you want for everyone to lose the war ? That’s ‘cus your losers.
Frank Bloesch said…
“one way or another 100% of the satanists in Kiev will have to be either killed or send back to the US and Canada (preferably the former, the latter was tried after WWII).”
Please do not send them here to Canada, we already have enough problems with our neo-cons.
30 November, 2014 03:26
We don’t want them in the States either.
May I suggest the Marianas Trench.
Yes, I think Bezler’s video is about the plan for Novorossiya to be in Kiev. That’s what we can all hope for. There’s no benefit in being dismal and negative.
One imagines that a neutral and united Ukraine would need to regain the Crimea and get Russian ships out. Would that be a price Russia would be willing to pay if it took place over a number of years? Then Russia’s ships could move to Novorossisk not far away.
Re: The Ukraine is only anti-Russian, it is defined by its opposition to Russia.
I understood the same premise some five years ago. It would however have been politically impossible for me to say so publicly. (For you it is easier, as you are anonymous :-) I therefore had to devise a plan to state the facts without directly associating myself with the claim. I came up with a section for misquotes, or misattributed quotes on my Wikipedia user page. I then ran the section with monthly updates for several months – the other quotes only inserted for the purpose of hiding the true purpose of the section. Finally in November 2010 this appeared in my Misquote of the month section:
Ukraine is not a nation. It is a racist theory about the inferiority of the Russian people.
I chose Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn as the origin of the fake quote as he was sufficiently anti-Soviet and worshiped in the West. Also, it is not inconceivable that he might have said something similar.
Senator John McCain may have said it even better: Ukraine is a hate group masquerading as a nation!
I subscribe unconditionally to most of the post, but I see a big problem.
For some reason, hatred against Russia is very persistent. Look at the East European lot (Poland, Czechia etc): Germany invaded, subdued and annexed them, massacring their people (in Poland at least). Russia liberated them and kept them for forty years in a dull, economically not-shining alliance, in which, however, they fared not worse than the very Russians, often better.
Nevertheless these people deeply like Germany and hate Russia with all their heart.
It will be a great challenge for Russia in times to come to understand and reverse this phenomenon
Not strictly on topic, but this book was a compelling read about WWII and the rise of Hitler.
I remember Naomi Klein in a talk about her thesis of the Shock Doctrine, and disaster capitalism, how she said towards the end that there was good news. Latin America showed the cycle, how after 30 years of neo-liberal economics and death squads, countries were throwing off these policies and inventing democracy all over again. Such is the shelf life of evil, or bullshit, whichever you want to call it.
Same with Ukraine. It’s had close to its 30 years of lies. If it takes a few years for NAF to work its way west, and for Russia to accomplish regime change – then this will be the demonstration to the entire world of how it’s done.
Patience, always. As Saker points out, real war takes real time. Think North Vietnam, whose eventual goal was never to end up with a divided nation.
We don’t actually know how it’s done, to effect the counter to 2-3 decades of US subversion. Russia will invent the method as it goes, and the world will learn. I can’t think of any nation I trust more with the task.
The fuct is that four thousands inocent etnic Russians sacrificed in Donbass for Kremlins ,economic games and public relationships with the West.First when the russian army pulled out from the borders and after with the Minsk agreement the samme like Khasav-Yurt truce,given the green light to Kiev with West help to start genocide and ethnic cleansing .Can someone imagine what happen if was westerns citizens?Why the Russians lives counted so cheap?First from everythig the human lives and Putin did nothing to protect them.The history will judge Putin for this.Only sent humanitarian aid like sent to some African countries,they need aid but first of all need protection .
In Kremlin they have the illusion that the USA if behave nice to them the West will forget the annexation of Krimea and will forgive Russia and soon relationships will be like before ,but West Later or soon will send an ultimatum to Russia surrender or WAR,allready has started with the oil price ,what is the Kremlins reaction`?Nothing .This passive and moderate policy failed dont try to excuse them.Its seems in Kremlin think more not affect the interests of the oligarchy by Western sanctions than the interests of the Russian people
I am of the opinion that, like it or not, Russia will find it necessary to support, covertly, creation of a Greater NovoRossiya.
I believe that Greater NovoRossiya will include all territory east of the Denieper, and the provinces fronting the Black Sea from the Denieper to Moldova.
This will be done because of unremitting sanctions by NATO, and continuing actions by NATO which threaten the Security of Russia.
Once Greater Novorossiya is secured, I expect overtures to me made to the remainder east of the Deniester, with only a rump Ukranian state in what is now SW Ukraine remaining under Nazi control.
I make no prediction as to how long this will take
I also predict that Russia will find it expedient to claim the ceasefire of 08 in the Caucasus between Ossetia/Abkhazia and Georgia to be broken, and to return to the line of maximum advance as a prelude to division of Azerbijan between Iran, Armenia, and Russia, followed by an alliance between the Kurds, Armenians, and Syrians for the purpose of carving up Turkey.
This will involve closure of the BTC pipeline corridor.
I make no prediction as to how long this will take, either.
I also predict that ISIS will be used by Iraqi Shiites to camoflage attacks on the US fleet in Bahrain, and on Saudi-GCC oil/gas loading facilities in the Gulf, with covert Iranian/SCO support.
I think this will occur sooner than anyone thinks, because Whabbism threatens all of central Asia, and KSA is the founding suport of Whabbism.
Also few realize that the real battle over Gazprom’s sphere of control, is a battle over the percentage of consumer revenues from gas sales. Currently half goes to Gazprom and the rest to EU gas distributors. Gazprom wants end for end control, and a much larger percentage of gas revenues.
You yourself said the key phrase Saker some time ago, “The further West and North a Russian army penetrated into the Ukraine, the less they would be seen as liberators and more as occupiers”
“The job of liberating the Ukraine from Nazism is a job for Ukrainians and Ukrainians alone”
I concur with both your statements 100%
Novorossiya is therefore the resistance base from which Ukrainians can liberate their country.
The problem of course is that the rump around the Cities of Donetsk and Lugansk is too small to enable this to happen. Novorossiya must therefore expand to achieve the critical mass necessary to finish the job of liberation. The problem has been to determine where to expand to (or in which order) to maximise the benefit of being seen as liberators.
Fortunately, the recent RADA elections have helped immeasurably as the mass boycotts in many South and Eastern regions have identified clearly where Kiev is seen as largely illegitimate.
I am sure that Russian and Novorossiyan leaders are now using this information to plan their next campaign, the unification of pro Novorossiyan territories, to create the viable critical mass for a home grown full liberation.
“…Judaism is, in historical, cultural and religious terms, nothing but an anti-Christianity…”
This is a very interesting statement, but I will admit that I don’t understand at all why that would be so (Judaism came first after all). My experience with Judaism is very limited although I would like to learn more – would the author have the courtesy to offer a few links on this subject?
I am sorry but that is utter nonsense. No country is going to invade the territory of a major nuclear power and China is no exception.
China has no intention of allowing Russia to fall or be broken, both powers know that they depend on each other and need to support each other. They have known this for a very long time, but have kept it under wraps for over a decade. Now the US sponsored aggression is out in the open, they no longer have need to keep the alliance quiet.
If actual Russian territory was threatened in the West, China would deploy its conventional forces to the fight. Why? to force a repeat of their Korean war intervention (albeit on a much larger scale)and beacuse only a massive conventional intervention would be enough to stop the Russians having to resort to Nuclear weapons.
It seems that Bezler try to federate anti nazis parts of UA and plan to go to Kiev. Bezler don’t talk so much Novorossia but federal Ukraine nazi free. He has a lot of contacts for prisonner exchange, ammunitions business, …. And listening Bereza saying is waiting to go to Kiev (if the rada don’t go on his way) the next war will be on ……. Maidan?
The usual suspects are embroidering with discarded threads.
Ukraine stands for “pre-Muscovite Russia”, against the pattern of crazy and bloodthirsty stalinist governments emanating from Moscow that have all in all probably killed and ruined even more true Russians and Russian-speakers than Ukrainians. Ukraine is “Kievan Rus”.
Considering the history which enjoys broad consensus,
two major crimes stand out perpetrated by J. Stalin and his government in Moscow
against the Ukrainian nation, the Ukrainian people.
1) Very shortly prior to the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin
ordered the execution
of many if not most of his most experienced, most professional and
effective military officers,
thus leaving the Red Army effectively leaderless when the German
I can only draw some likely conclusions about why any leader would do
such a weird thing.
It must have been because Stalin needed to be always the unquestioned
“best” among all
others, and could not stand the idea that in a war, some experienced
officer [like Marshall Tukhachevsky for instance] might steal the
supreme praise from Stalin.
So in order to gratify his own needs for his own ambition as the
supreme leader [the “vozhd”]
Stalin destroyed the leadership of his own army. Due to the terms of the Treaty
of Rapallo in 1922, there was a period of sharing of military
technology with the Germans, and the seasoned
officers of the Red Army had reason to know the doctrines and weapons
of the German Army
and could well counteract the Germans. Had the Red Army possessed the leadership
of these seasoned and professional officers, it would have likely
stopped the Germans
in their tracks and maybe even launched a “blitzkrieg in reverse”
several years prior to what
was eventually done.—The whole terrible invasion and its vast losses
of lives and property
would have likely never happened.—The Socialist Republic of Ukraine
was a party to this
Treaty of Rapallo according to my sources. Had crazy bloodthirsty
Stalin NOT butchered
all those capable men, Ukraine would have likely been saved from the
invasion and all the
loss of millions of lives in the war.
2) In the early 1930’s Stalin undertook the industrialization of
Russia by purchasing the
heavy factory machines [no doubt did not build them all from scratch]
from certain financial
interests, a certain cartel in the West. Note this excerpt from E.H.
“In December 1921 a group of industrialist and financiers of allied
countries (although not the United States) met in Paris, and proposed
the establishment of an ‘international corporation’ for the
reconstruction of Europe It was understood that large-scale investment
in Soviet Russia would be one of the major functions of the
corporation, since the exploitation of the Russian resources was now
recognized as a condition of European recovery” (E. H. Carr, The
Bolshevik Revolution 1917-1923, vol.3, p. 356, Penguin Books)
The payment was to be in grain, the only commodity that Russia had to
the government in Moscow confiscated grain specifically targeting
Ukrainian farmers, and
arranged [with complicity of the “international corporation” as well]
for the huge famine
that was a serious attempt at genocide against Ukrainians,
especially since the famine was also accompanied by a pogrom and butchery of all
Ukrainian cultural leaders and activists, including the destruction of
one of the older Bolsheviks who sought to reverse the results of
decades of Russification
in Ukraine, under the old tsarist regime.
3) And then there is the third crime, its effects still ongoing, namely, that all those millions sacrificed by Stalin’s regime, either directly or in beheading his own military bringing on the devastating war and invasion,—all those millions and their offspring are forever gone, and now the population in both Russia and Ukraine is shrinking. —WD
When analyzing events I see people falling into two common traps. The first is confusing nations with their elites. A given elite creates a forum of discussion with a limited allowable spectrum of public opinion. Change the elite, and everything follows.
The second is what I call naive faith in the luxury of choice. It’s easy for anyone to take their necessarily-ideologically-driven worldview as self-evident truth and to confuse a lack of cognitive dissonance therein with reason. This is not such a big problem in this community as in others, but it plays into the following point.
But, by the luxury of choice I mean looking at events as overly driven by choices rather than inexorable trends predicated on things like economics.
The realm of the possible (politics) is a lot more severely limited, the realistic choices leaders can make are much more limited than a lot of people with sentimental attachments to whatever way of thought, golden era or social order would like to believe.
I guess it’s the historical materialist in me. There certainly is moral responsibility, and choice, but it’s limited greatly by broad forces, especially if you’re just a pleb but even if you’re the ruling elite.
Professional historians aren’t supposed to engage in ‘what ifs’ for a reason. I’d like to believe there was a way to save the Soviet Union, but the forces involved met in such a way that it didn’t happen. Correcting history’s mistakes never works, you have to have a clear understanding of the forces at work and act in line with them.
The Ukraine and the US aren’t exactly doing that and their economics don’t look good. Let’s hope Russia’s are better.
By the way, the site Jack’s Reuters article traces back to is Zavtra, an ultra-rightwing weekly magazine that Borodai used to edit and Strelkov used to write for. It’s sort of a religious and political masthead for the Tsarist movement and militant Russian Orthodoxy and has more, if not better, material on selected people and events in the war than any other publication.
Here’s a neat article by Borodai. The interviewer is so sycophantic it makes me reach for the barf bag, but it works, inadvertently, to make the subject grow expansive and careless.
Some background on the rescue of Khodakovsky. Khodakovsky led the very first storming of the airport, and had no anti-aircraft equipment with him because he was certain the Ukrs wouldn’t bomb the airport, which was still landing planes on the day. I don’t blame Khodakovsky for this. Every time I watch a video of a drive through the airport I still can’t believe what they’ve done to it. Anyhow, they did bomb and strafe it and the fighters, including K himself, were trapped in a desperate situation.
Zavtra gives over 1000 hits for a search of Strelkov. Put the Russian below in the search bar. It seems to search the sections separately, i.e., searching articles won’t bring up something in news. I haven’t read a lot of it, but I notice a remarkable lack of mention of Zakharchenko by name. Zakharchenko was the commander of Oplot, translated Stronghold, called in Zavtra/Yandex “Hold” so that day when “Hold” shot down a plane and inflicted 50 to 1 casualties at a checkpoint, that was Zakharchenko.
@anonymous (first comment)
“.. No country has ever been raped like Russia at the turn of the 20th century…”
I would say USA right now being raped and pillaged by it’s elites probably beats whatever happened in Russia in the 90’s.
“they [Ukies] are changing the name of WWII”
Really? What are they going to call it? ‘The failed patriotic war to save the fatherland’? ;-)
“Just like Judaism is, in historical, cultural and religious terms, nothing but an anti-Christianity, so is “Ukrainianism” just an “anti-Russism”. You think that I am kidding?”
Surely you’re aware that Judaism is MUCH older than Christianity, Saker? However some of them may feel towards the goyim, I think there’s a good bit more to their religion than mere anti-Christian animosity.
Whilst the U.S has the best Surface Navy and probably Air-Force (although huge question marks over F-35)…there’s no question that the Russians have developed the best Missile systems.
Whether it is Air_defense systems like S-500 or S-400 or TOR, anti-ship missiles with Yakhonts and Suburn, best Submarine nukes like Bulava MIRV, land missiles like Topal-M, S-24 Yars or Iskander-M or Submarine Torpedoes with VA-111 Shkval supercavitating torpedoes.
Yep it is the only solution. One if it includes veto power for military alliances for the states, will leave Russia to invest and have huge economic ties to Russia friendly regions. Whilst the Russians improve the lives there the Eu and co will be forced to parry and improve the lives in the other parts. Explotation takes a back seat as both try and prove which union the Europe or Eurasian is the future.
Why would the borders many propose, with the historical Novorossiya, a Transcarpathia, a Galicia, and a Central Ukraine have worse borders than a united Ukraine? Few countries have perfect borders. Maybe, say, 10% of the population would be unhappy with the country they got stuck in, but it might be 20% in a united Ukraine.
be cool Ann, maybe my english is not as good to reflect my state of mind. I would like to say that I feel Betzer more in the way with Russia than Novorossian socialist parts (witch maybe will satisfied with political federal…). Your others considerations are not really kind, but anyway maybe you’re right and i really hope that you will win on your side. I’m living in Paris and I have to fight too.
It is so helpful to read cogent analyses like this. We never get this in the U.S. or the EU press. Thanks so much.
Yes, Russia is “bigger” than the Ukraine in many ways, but the Ukraine is simply a front used by the US, UK, and Zio bankers, and the Saker seems to admit they are stronger than Russia. It bothers me that even with the Khazin interview the big financial picture is being ignored – the Anglo-American-Zionists believe Russia is destabilizing the Western financial system. When capitalism fails, they war. There is a long history of this. I wonder if Putin thinks diplomacy will solve this problem versus a group that worships war.
jack, you know jacks*** (and that’s being polite to you, as I am assuming you are not deliberately promoting disinformation) about the start of the war, propagating the neocon BS: the crisis in Ukraine arose out of the arrogance and pride of the USG through the neocons and their plan of 21st century dominance of the world by America. See also: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault
While what you posit may very well be ideal, Saker, I do wonder if you are not introducing a practical dead end, or even unintended ‘wind in the sails’ of the war party in Western Ukraine, by beginning with the thesis that “A united federated Nazi-free Ukraine” is not only a possible solution, it is the only solution.” ??
To begin by identifying a particular political arrangement as the only solution preempts discussion of other possible …resolutions. It may also serve as a rationale and smokescreen for those who are presently in power in Ukraine to focus on the unity part of the equation.
Ukraine prior to the coup no longer exists: It has been dismembered physically by the reattachment of Crimea to Russia.
Ukraine has been altered physically and emotionally by the war in eastern Ukraine. It has been altered and toyed with, in a most diabolical, coldly calculating way by the Western PTB.
The term Nazi in the Ukrainian context is not identical to the German use of the term in the Hitler era. But however one defines Nazi, is there any way to make an idea or set of beliefs disappear, be non-existent … be “Nazi-free”?
The term “united” can vary from ‘loosely united’ to ‘closely knit’ to ‘oneness’. If the unity is as a result of a dominant general public consensus, attachment, and attitude, then any need for internal application of force to maintain the unity is minimized.
If the term “united” is weakly upheld or repudiated by important parts of the population, then the so-called unity is a facade and becomes problematic.
“Federated “ can again vary from loosely federated, with important elements of political authority decentralized, to a nominally federated arrangement that is a facade dominated by a central authority.
So the words “A united federated Nazi-free Ukraine” have a vast range of possible real applications.
Which suggests that there are many variations on the theme within the category “only possible solution”.
But further, what is gained from foreclosing on possibilities outside this category? Would it not be more in the spirit of a conciliatory approach to seeking solutions to leave open the possibility that there could be found other “solutions”, or viable political arrangements, apart from “a united federated Nazi-free Ukraine”?
There are so many contextual factors at play: For example, there is the question of the viability of the EU project, and the viability of the NATO project, and the viability of the United States itself, let alone its disastrous, mad pursuit of global hegemony. Within the new Ukraine there must be a reservoir of sober second thoughts, which perhaps fatal for Ukrainians to broach publicly today, will not give up trying to emerge into daylight. Is that sober second thought not handicapped by prearranged possible boundaries on its explorations?
Saker, I think you really have to have a website which allows posting replies to other posters immediately below them, as in threading. I’m still using your old site btw.
P.S. No need to reply, only action suffices. ;)
@ Petri Krohn
That misquote may be misquoted correctly, but the thing is, Ukraine is not defined, and needs to define itself. With Russia behind insurgency, even if indirectly, Ukraine is already under pressure to define itself as anti-Russia. There is some internal resistance to this (even storm troopers, they do not sing la-la-la-la Russia @# , they put a name, not a country, there). And it is not even a united opinion, –actually, there is a civil war. It may be too early to define Ukraine from outside; and there is a danger that an external definition may stick. Optimistic view would be that Ukraine is such Russia which is open to Europe (and not a monarchy).
Thanks so much for this cogent analysis. History almost never enters into any analysis that we see in the US’s corporate press or NGO-funded liberal press. There is no context, probably because if people saw the actual context of things, they would have to confront genocide, racism, and imperialism.
1. How does it help Russia to have a bifurcated Ukraine with a destroyed Eastern half and a rabidly anti Russian Western haLf that will resort to terrorism once defeated
2. But how do you overthrow the Chocula regime in the current sitzkrieg status of the war
3. The West expects Russia to rebuild Ukraine. They have no use for another failed economic state in the EU. Germany is saying nein to Ukraine in NATO
4. How do you de Nazify Ukraine without a Russian invasion. The (evil) genie is out of the bottle
5. What pressure is Russia bringing to “bear” pun intended on the EU weak sisters to end sanctions: Hungary, Slovakia, Italy and the Orthodox cousins Greece and Cyprus
“…Judaism is, in historical, cultural and religious terms, nothing but an anti-Christianity…”
This is a very interesting statement…
You asked the question? Good! Now you’ll begin to understand how deep the rabbit hole really goes. The answers are all around you, all you need is a slightly different perspective. Good Luck and I hope you have really strong nerves and a lot of forgiveness.
Dear Saker and friends,
I totally agree with Saker’s analysis as to the nature of war in general and the precise aims of the current Anglo-Zionist war against Russia in particular. We need to harbor no illusions as to the gravity of the threat now hanging over Russia and by extension the planet under the exploitation of the Anglo-Zionists. Without a shadow of a doubt, the aim here is to completely destroy Russia as a nation and as a state. How do we know this? Well, we only need to read what the rabid anti-Russia “warriors” have been writing and saying since the fall of the USSR. People like Brezhyikski, have been openly stating since the 1990s that in order for Russia to “modernize” it has to break down into smaller parts. In fact Brezhyinski goes on to describe those parts into which Russia should break down. He speaks of a “Moscow region” a different “St. Petersbourg region” a “Caucasus region”, and he also wants Siberia to break into at least 3 parts etc… Brezhyinski is not alone in all this. “The Economist” writer and MI6 agent Edward Lucas has repeatedly spoken and written over the possibility of Russia being torn apart into smaller parts, he in fact sees this as an “inevitability”. Eurasia Group founder Ian Bremmer also belongs to this school of thought, expressing similar “predictions” and in his books deliberating over the future of the planet and geopolitics, he avoids mentioning Russia as one of the future players in the world arena, while at the same time considering Turkey, Mexico and Poland as future powerhouses. Similar views are also expressed be Stratfor analyst George Friedman.
Now, having said this, the fact that the ultimate Anglo-Zionist aim is to completely destroy Russia does not mean that they Anglo-Zionists actually have a coherent plan or strategy as to how to achieve this. Moreover, it also does not follow that the Anglo-Zionists will also not settle (at least temporarily) for a second-best option, namely a significant weakening of Russia through economic plunder/sabotage, military pressure, obscene propaganda and regime change.
Now, why did the Anglo-Zionists choose 2013 as the time to launch a new war against Russia? Well, I can only speculate over this, but the reasons seem to be the following:
1) The 2008 economic crisis, has made abundantly the extent of the fragility and instability of western financial dominance over the rest of planet. Subsequent developments, such as the persistent economic overperformance of China and the relative (even in many cases, absolute) decline of the West have only served to spur the Empire into aggressive action.
2) By 2013, we seem to have gone past the half-way mark of the “recovery industrial cycle” typical of all capitalist economies. They Anglo-Zionists had to launch an attack in the midst of relatively strong economic performance. While it is true that current western economic performance is anything but strong or healthy, it is still better than between the years of 08-12 or the years that are about to follow.
3) The eventual full realization that Russia has time on her side. While a lot is being said even by people who are extremely sympathetic towards Russia about Russia’s weakness and especially economic weakness, this analysis is quite misleading. While it is true that the Russian economy is suffering from relative lack of investment and an over-reliance on hydrocarbon exports, things are not as clear cut as they are presented by some. In fact, Russian manufacturing (excluding the extraction sectors) is bigger than that of the UK or France. While it is true that Russia could have been doing a lot better in this area, it is also quite false to proclaim Obama-like, that “Russia does not make anything”. What many Russia naysayers also fail to ever mention, is that Russia is probably the only major country on the planet with vitually no debt and trade and fiscal surpluses. But the biggest worry for the Anglo-Zionists by far, is the fact that Russia is the richest country on earth in terms of endowment of natural sources. Be it oil (conventional or otherwise) natural gas, coal, iron ore, gold, rare earth metals etc, Russia is at the top of most natural resources lists, especially in the ultra-vital sectors of oil and gas. The problem for the Anglo-Zionists is further compounded by the fact the Russia can protect herself through her formidable nuclear arsenal. Now, why is the fact that Russia is rich in energy reserves so disturbing for the Anglo-Zionists? The reason is extremely obvious and straight-forward. These are finite resources that are being depleted, and they are of primary economic and strategic value. As reserves become more and more depleted, the relative price of energy will rise and this will provide Russia with a more than considerable economic and strategic advantage vis-a-vis everyone else. The current fall in the price of oil is but a temporary blip caused by economically (and geologically) non-viable shale oil extraction in the US and Canada and cannot last for the simple reason that it will drive these aforementioned marginal producers out of business pretty soon. In fact the extreme urgency with which the Anglo-Zionists have pursued their latest assault against Russia is indicative of their extreme haste in attempting to protect their very own shale oil/tar oil production at the expense of at first Iran and now Russia. This is also the reason behind the insistence of the Americans to impose severe sanctions on the Russian oil sector in the form of the banning of the sale of drilling equipment, dual-used goods and finance towards the Russian oil sector. With Canada being the major producer of tar sand oil (the most expensive type of oil) the obscene shenanigans of the Canadian Prime Minister at the G20 become all the more “understandable”.
To return back to our topic of the Ukraine, I also agree that a de-Nazified Ukraine is the only lasting solution acceptable to Russia. As to how realistic this proposition may be then I am not entirely certain. It is true that the actual hardcore Banderites in Ukie-land are not that great in number irrespective of their current influence and visibility. In my reading of the situation, the majority of the west-leaning Ukrainian population have been the victims of a double deception. The first deception, is the false promises and hints thrown at them from the US/EU agent provocateurs over an alleged bright European future for Ukraine. They have seen how other Eastern European countries have been taken into the EU (even some very poor ones such as Bulgaria and Romania) and they have been led to believe that they are next. Politicians and ambassadors from the well-known anti-Russian clique of Poland-Baltics-Romania-Scandinavia and of course the US/UK have further cultivated this fairy-tale. The second part of the West Ukrainian deception is of course self-inflicted. West Ukrainians in their desperation and I should also add stupidity have gone all in in their inane belief that once Ukraine has been rid of Russian-ism and Communism (the two can’t possibly ever be separated in the minds of millions of idiots around the globe) they will then be suited to joining the “great European family of prosperous nations”. The stupidity and self-delusion required for a human being to be able to abide by such infantile mythology is indeed quite staggering, but when did humanity rid itself of stupidity exactly? The fact that the Ukies are not in a position to calculate that they are not entering the EU anytime this century, necessarily precludes the possibility of them realizing that the EU is almost surely heading for a complete break-up.
HOW CAN RUSSIA FIGHT BACK THE ANGLO-ZIONISTS AND THE NAZIS?
The threat facing Russia is colossal, we should make no mistake about it. The Anglo-Zionist Empire, despite being in decline, still possesses several aces up its sleeve. They still control the financial channels of the global economy despite their own economies having been significantly hollowed out. They still control popular culture and the media the world over (not completely, but to a great extent) They still control the narrative through their stooges in the media, academia as well as all those vomit-inducing so-called “think-tanks”. They sport a massive network of secret agents as well as hundreds of military bases all around the planet. They lord over numerous vassal states like for example in eastern Europe or the Persian Gulf etc… Their economic weight is still massive, even though they have lost that monopoly recently and that process is still ongoing and even accelerating.
Some steps that Russia can/must take in order to win this war in the long-haul are the following:
1. Learn from the Chinese economic miracle. How did the Chinese organize their corporations? How did they finance them?
2. Probably abandon a free-floating exchange rate. Russia chose to “liberalize” currency flows in 1990 while China has resisted pressures to do likewise for decades. Just compare the economic performance between the two since 1990.
3. As close a co-operation, leading to a Grand Strategic Alliance between Russia and China. While other non-western nations are also of importance here, like India, Brazil, Iran, Argentina, South Africa and even Mexico Turkey (traditional US allies) none of them comes remotely close to the economic power, dynamism and reliability of the Chinese state. Russia simply has a lot to learn and a lot to do with the Chinese. China is now far and away the most crucial country for Russia’s future strategic planning in every respect.
Should also co-operate with the rest of the non-western nations mentioned above. They are of course far weaker than China and far more liable to western pressure, but they will definitely play their role in the future.
Now, I am rather negatively dismayed by how easily the Europeans have folded under the weight of US pressure, but I feel that Russia will keep working on undermining US influence in Europe, at least in selected countries.
In any case, what we have in front of us, is nothing but a fully-fledged war for the preservation and salvation of Russia, a war, which like that of the 1940s, will decide the future of the planet.
30 November, 2014 03:58
Thank you for this video!
I am shocked and horrified!
Ukrainian extremists are calling their march “иду на вы!”, which means : “I want to come at you!”. This phrase was used by the greatest Russian ruler of all time, Sviatoslav I Igorevich, the last pagan prince of Kievan Rus, the very person who created first great Russian state, and the destroyer of Khazaria.
So what we are seeing is BEYOND belief!
I was always talking of how much important is the pagan past of Russia (and Slavic world in general), and now we see that Russia allowed this horror to happen – the most radical Ukrainian groups are fighting against Russia in the name of the greatest Russian pagan ruller !!!
Let god Perun judge these idiots!
Pretty good interview with Dimitry Orlov.
Russian response to sanctions: They can kill us all!
First found on ZH
This was a very interesting post, and I would like to congratulate the Saker on a very stimulating blog site; I feel that I have learned a lot from it. But in this post, the premise that the overarching motive of this war is hate for Russia rings hollow for me. Admittedly, I am not a student of Ukrainian history, but there seems to be a requirement to overlook some important logical inconsistencies. If I were a Ukie oligarch, why would I be motivated to take part in fomenting such grotesque wealth destruction as what has occurred in the country, all for the sake of projecting my hate on Russia? I can see why the interventionist (your so-called Anglo-Zionist) oligarchs (Biden & company) would be motivated thus, but it confounds me why Ukie oligarchs would find it appealing to play along. It seems that you are asking us to believe that Ukie oligarchs are masochistic suicidal irrational idiots. I agree that they have shown themselves to be vile actors.
to the Saker:
I have written many times in the past, so you know my respect for Russian and its’ leadership.
You make a very clear point concerning the rabid hatred that is taking root in Ukraine.
You have made the point many times that Russia should not invade and that if it did the result would only be greater hatred for a visible occupier.
Yet you propose that the economic collapse will reverse all this?
It is history that tells us that Nazi style leadership flourishes in a depressed and failing economy.
It is history that tells us that shared Hatred is a profoundly powerful unifying element -and is easily used to create a national myth and identity.
Since Russia will not go away and and is easily blamed for past and present evils, since the economy is left to fail and since Nazi style identities will continue to take root in political leadership – how is it possible for “slow change” to occur?
When the cease-fire was first proposed, many who used to follow this blog protested loudly – what they said has come true in spades.
While the cease-fire was necessary for reasons know to and benefiting Russia, it has left Ukraine in a position where both sides bleed out; where oligarchs plunder, where common people suffer, where elites move on to Europe and where hope is nothing but nostalgia.
Without permanent change in Kiev – which you Saker have stated cannot happen by the forces of the Novorussian militia, which you have stated should not happen by the hand of Russia – there will be no change and a radical united Nazi-style entity will emerge with Western backing that will be a black-ops source of terror and division to be used against Russia. What Russia gained in the short-term, it looks like it will lose in the long-term.
What Ukraine looked to gain in the short-term will also be lost in the long-term.
What the West appears to have lost in the short-term may well be a gain in the long term.
Failing a change in Kiev, separation of Novorussia would at least cauterize the bleeding of lives from Donbass and provide a thin buffer.
The cease-fire, at the time it happened for Ukraine (not Russia) was a mistake. I do not see many options by which Russia can turn this for good – not without the aggressive participation of Europe. But they are at best passive, at worst antagonistic towards Russia.
But time will tell.
I like your blog. I disagree on some matters though. Now to the point: Bezler is a dreamer. Of course a de-nazified, federalised Ukraine would be good as at least the South-Eastern part, Novorossia, would be very Russia-friendly, BUT the west is not going to let that happen, and we cannot wait several years for a “russian master plan” to achieve this, covertly. A lot of people will die in the process and the end result (de-nazified, federalised Ukr.) is still not guaranteed. So the only REAL option is a liberated Novorossia + Transniestria + some more oblasts from Malorossia, probably Sumy, Poltava and Cherkassy. The rest is too nazi-infected to be considered (now at least). Russia must support Novorossia enough to make this happen as it cannot wait several years for some “magic” turn of events that may or may not happen! So Novorossia of 8+ oblasts must be, ASAP!
I believe that a federated united Ukraine is where this will end up, and sooner rather than later. Why? because thats what Russia wants and has wanted from the beginning.
As Saker says Russia has the means to make it happen. The EU would also prefer such an outcome. The US would not but they have no choice.
Now as to Saker’s African Analogies: He is going way over board. Somalization I can accept. But Africanization? The west has not left African alone, they are deeply and increasingly engaged there. Hence Africom, French direct intervention in Mali and the unending Civil war in the DRC.
Nonetheless the majority of SubSaharan Africa is quite politically stable and due to the rise of China is doing quite well economically, thank you.
I am 1/3 through a pdf. .. THE HIGH COST of VENGEANCE
by Freda Utley .. 1949… 300 + pages.
In a link posted around the time of Mr Kazin’s Q & A.
Some of this I knew from other sources but this is an in depth expose’ of British/French & American inhumanity towards a defeated people.They truly are,and always have been the enemies of freedom,only Empire and profit are of value to them,humans are fodder!.
The refusal to honour the armistice of 1918,blockading Germany until the new German Government conceded on everything the French and British demanded,crippling reparations, loss of territory,everything taken back by Adolf Hitler later.
The point being…”let us tell them what they want to hear, we can hang them later!”.
The british/english have always used their opponents naivette,when Germany dis-armed,France and Britain did not!,Woodrow Wilsons 14 points were ignored!.
The Novorussians know this,as does the Russian leadership,they know what happened to Germany after WWII,the dismantling of german factories…read it you will understand that they were always intended to be indebted to US aid…sound familiar?.
I recently finished reading Sergei Glazyev’s paper(undated,it seemed like a cut & paste),’How to avoid war’.It is a long article,but he seems to want to use institutions like WHO and other UN agencies as part of a solution process,for present anomalies.
Anyone who has had the task of repairing, knows that to repair, is often more expensive and time consuming, than demolition and re-construction!.
Wars are easy to start and very hard to finish….
“Now we know!”…..the Soviets did the heavy lifting,while the ‘allies’ looted at the cost of a few thousand cannon fodder,while the ‘allies’ fought to the last Soviet/Russian soldier.
‘Elites’ is just a modern buzz word,the ‘Establishment’ is more factual.These people are not merely a few Oligarchs,or ‘fat cats’,these are the people and families that control every country.
They are the judiciary,military, financiers,royalty & hangers on.. e.g. sirs and dames,lords and ladies,permanent secretaries,the SIS,SS(aka MI6 & MI5)….some getting a rake off via Quango’s with big salaries i.e. the ability to invest via the sovereign global bond market.
For a new century…the UN must go! and all the other US/UK rubber stamps,the IMF,the World Bank, USAID,NED.’Radio free Europe’ etc etc… And most of all debt free money that is central to all that.
Completing every mundane analysis is the analysis of mundane astrology
of which the astromundane work tries to provide the most important fragments.
The first part of the present report
covers the next 7 months for Berlin, Kiew and Moscow.
The second part, covering New Dehli, Peking and Washington will follow soon.
Reply to Wend, on 11-30-2014, 1808 hrs:
Now the reference to Great King Sviatoslav Ihorevych is an example of either ignorance or malice.—Where was Sviatoslav operating from?
Was it from Moscow? I think it was from Kyiv
in what is now Ukraine. And where did the modern Ukrainians come from? It seems they are the descendants of the very founders of the so-called Russian world, and there exists no evidence that modern Ukrainians are not substantially descendants of people who lived in that area for centuries, or millenia. Look at the heraldry of that very hated “nazi” Ukrainian state. It has its main emblem the trident, in the form used by Great King [Kahan] Volodymyr Sviatoslavych, christianizer of what was then essentially Ukrainian Russia or pre-Muscovite Russia.
The Ukrainian currency unit “hryvna” also dates back to Kyivan Rus not the Muscovite Kingdom,—the colors blue and gold I think come from the heraldry of the Halych-Volyn Kingdom in what is now western Ukraine.
These Ukrainians have more right to use Sviatoslav’s old marching term than anyone.
Also,—must mention this, ignorant Russians have used the term “khokhol” as an insult
against Ukrainians, referring to the hairstyle of lock of hair atop shaven head. In modern Ukrainian this is called “chuub”.
But it is documented, Great King [Kahan] Sviatoslav wore this “khokhol” hairstyle.
It apparently goes back centuries before Ukrainian Cossacks, probably a style of warriors of the Eurasian steppes. I also came across a curious article on the Internet mentioning research that an unusually high percentage
of modern Ukrainians have genetic markers commonly found in ancient herdsman-nomad peoples, and that suggests possible substantial ancestry from the ancient Scythians and Sarmatans who were herdsmen- nations of the original “horse culture” who inhabited steppes where Ukraine exists now. So modern Ukrainians may go back as far as that.—By the way, I understand that the name Russia itself, derived from “Rus”, is a Finnish name, not Slavonic. The name Moscow is Finnish, not Slavonic,—not that there is anything wrong in being Finnish. There simply seems to be a Finnish substrate so that I bet most Russians from the Moscow region have 50% genetically Finnish lineage.
But none of this is worth killing snd dying in a war.—This aversion of so-called Novorussians against the Ukrainian language
strikes me as totally insane. Well, I note, customarily it is said, Ukrainians and Russians are the “same people” if it means Ukrainians become russianized, but they are NOT the “same people” if it means Russians should join the Ukrainian identity.
Wow! I had no idea there were so many Nazi apologists trying to cut a path through Saker’s vineyard.
I guess thats why saker keeps bemoaning the weight of the moderation duties.
My take on Hitler is that he was simply the west’s mailed fist against the USSR. Hitler was supposed to accomplish what the Whites, and their supporting western intervention, could not in the Russian civil war. Destroy communism and the Bolsheviks.
Britain and France absolutely controlled the Weimar republic and permitted the coming to power of Hitler. They also permitted, and collaborated in, the rearmament of Germany. That much is clear because they had inspectors in the German ministries and were hence aware of everything that was going on.
The analogous case is that of Iraq and Saddam. Saddam was the west’s mailed fist against Iran. He was supposed to finish off the Islamic revolution as the Americans were unable to kill it in the womb or at birth. However, Saddam had his own plans and the west ended up fighting him. We can see the same process unfolding re ISIS and Syria/Iraq today.
The appeasement of Hitler by the west was merely escalating payments to Germany for the task it was meant to accomplish in the east. Much as Saddam demanded Kuwait as payment for his services re Iran. Hitler just wanted advance payment.
That Hitler was in coordination (if not collaboration) with the west is made obvious by his let off of the Brits at Dunkirk in 1940. The facts speak for themselves despite all the British spin. Dunkirk was a goodwill gesture to a friend by Hitler.
We have a saying in Africa, “Anger against a brother is felt in the flesh not in the bone”.
This spirit thoroughly permeated WWII’s western front, where a “gentlemanly” war was fought between Germany and the allies. Compare this to the unbelievable savagery of the Ost front and all becomes clear.
Hitler was a creation of the west in the same way as any number of useful third world dictators. And like many such creations he grew too big for his breaches and had to be cut down to size. That work was done by the Soviets while the west watched from the sidelines until it was safe to jump in and claim the victory.
I suspect much the same will occur in Ukraine. The Nazis will outgrow their breaches and turn their anger on the west and Russia will deal with them, while the west just watches until it is safe for them to claim victory.