This is one of those times when I sincerely wish I had been proven wrong and that those who criticized me for raising the alarm following the murder of Motorola had been proven right. Instead, one of my worst fears has now materialized: Lieutenant colonel Mikhail Sergeyevich Tolstykh, aka “Givi” has been murdered.
That’s what you get for not asking the hard questions and for stupidly denying that there is a major problem.
Frankly, I am too disgusted to write a personal analysis. Besides, Colonel Cassad has already said everything which could and should be said at this point in time. All I will do is offer a translated summary of his main conclusions:
- The murder is being investigated. There are no suspects at this time.
- Since, with one exception, none of the murders of senior LNR/DNR figures have been successfully investigated – don’t hold your breath.
- Givi was killed in his office by a reactive flame thrower of the RPO-A Smel type. The killers knew where and when Givi would be which shows that he was under direct observation. His personal protection detail and the DNR counter-intelligence seem to be totally clueless. As for those who murdered him, they knew how to get in and out undetected.
- Givi had a minor political role, he was quite happy to be a tactical commander, he was on record fully supporting Zakharchenko (and Putin, would I add).
Bottom line: this is totally and completely inexcusable. The RPO-A has a range of about 150-400m (depending on the actual kit and the proficiency of the operator) and to strike Givi’s office the killers must have had direct line of sight. As far as I am concerned, many heads should now roll, especially after the murder of Motorola which should have served as a very painful wake-up call to the shameful reality that DNR counter-intelligence and security is clearly completely dysfunctional. At this point in time I am also inclined to blame Russia for not having stepped in following the murder of Motorola and restored a modicum of security in the DNR/LNR. And to those who will accuse me of overreacting, I will ask a simple question: what would it take for your to admit that there is a problem – do you really want to see Zakharchenko killed next?
As to the “who done it?” question, I am now revising my evaluation of how hard it would be to mount such an operation downward and I am beginning to think that the Ukronazis might actually be behind it. Initially, I had dismissed that option due to the notorious incompetence of the SBU and the rest of the Ukronazi terror organizations, but now I am starting believe that the “incompetence” of the Ukronazis, especially if trained by western operators, might be favorably compared to the “competence” of the DNR/LRN security services.
I will conclude this post by repeating what I wrote when Motorola was killed: The real question is not who had the means to execute such an operation, but why would anybody at all have had the opportunity to do so?!
With the Saints give rest, O Christ, to the soul of Your servant Mikhail where there is no pain, nor sorrow, nor suffering, but life everlasting.
PS: in terms of consequences, the murder of Givi will make absolutely no difference. Yes, a lot of good people will mourn him, we are all heartbroken, but it has now been several years that Givi played no crucial role in Novorussia, especially not in military terms. For all his immense personal qualities, Givi was not a real military specialist (none of the Novorussian leaders are, as far as I know). So the *real* military brains behind the defense of Novorussian republics are “behind the scenes folks” which you never see on TV, who graduated from several military academies and who have extensive personal combat experience. And yeah, a lot of them probably come from, or report to, Russia.
Zacharchenko and Basurin will be next.
Well – how nice the smart M2A plan works.
How was it?? Ahh, yeah: “Difficult Times for the Globalists SITREP by Scott”
how ukr forces are assisted
“Besides, Ukrainian command, one more time demonstrates its full failure and worthlessness, putting supplying questions of the AFU units in the so-called “ATO” zone on the voluntary movements. Thus, according to our intelligence, volunteers from Sweden and Lithuania delivered optics for small arms, thermal cameras and camouflage cloaks amounting to 130 thousand euro to the 81st separate air mobile brigade located in the locality of SLAVYANSK. ”
BTW, any news concerning the RedArmyChoir Sochi plane “accident”?
It all stinks through the roof. Including the official claims in Russian state media.
Maybe the truth would make the population demanding retaliation and hence has been forbidden?
The timing of this assassination clearly suggests significant pending military action by the Ukrainian junta.
The Saker’s comments regarding the lack of effective security in the DPR (sadly) also suggest a deep structural issue with its government. While one cannot expect a two year old government to have a full multi dimensional security apparatus in place, the exposure of important DPR figures to such actions, lead me to consider the possibilities of an ongoing internal power struggle, with one side wishing to prevent an effective security apparatus being managed by its opponents.
Givi was a charismatic, effective, and patriotic leader, who will be missed.
It is possible that the “one side” you refer to wants Kiev to win or at least gain a favorable settlement.
While the Saker is having to reevaluate downwards the capabilities of DNR/LNR internal security, many of us have been wondering if we don’t need to do the same for the ability for the patriotically-inclined elite in Moscow to get their way against the traitors/Western-inclined ones. And perhaps this helps to explain how the Ukraine was so mismanaged for so long. Maybe Putin and Lavrov weren’t unaware of what was going on in the Ukraine all the time, but they couldn’t do anything about it due to oligarchical interests.
Excellent article and good questions raised by Tthe Saker in this article.
Givi’s assassination was an inside job. I have no doubts about it. The first moment I saw all the pictures of the building, surrounding, inside area, circumstance. It was an inside job.
That raises more questions. Some of these questions were raised in the article http://thesaker.is/is-russias-deep-state-in-civil-war-just-like-americas/ (Is Russia’s Deep State In Civil War Just Like America’s?)
This article was very controversial and not well quite accepted at the time of publishing. Yet, all recent issues are raising legitimate question and the need to re-evaluate the article but also the wider picture in a new light.
After the article was published geopolitical scene were rapidly changing – Russian U-turn of her politics towards Syria, political pressure on Damascus upon the proposed draft constitution (which is not favorable to Damascus and so far was accepted with a lot of disappointment and rage among Syrians), Russian conditional acceptance of Safe Zones, partial withdrawal of troops, returning the fleet from Syrian coast to Russia, RF-US eventual rapprochement and detente, Assassination of Motorola, assassination of chief of the LPR People’s Militia Office, Oleg Anashchenko, and now Assassination of Givi… recent dismissal of 16 Russian generals (http://realrussiatoday.com/2017/02/03/putin-dismissed-16-generals-of-police-ministry-of-emergency-and-investigative-committee/ ) previous dismissal of the large number of academics of the Russian academy of science …. the issues are appearing one by one in a quite a short time
What’s the next? Who’s the next?
Quote from the article “Is Russia’s Deep State In Civil War Just Like America’s?”
“It’s almost like Russian interests in the region have been sabotaged, but the question is, by whom? Does the answer to this question lay in the two subsequent stories about US intelligence aggressively attempting to recruit Russian diplomats?
Has a silent coup by the neoliberal circles against the “hardliners” and patriots been underway in Russia over the past couple of weeks? Has US intelligence managed to recruit and infiltrate certain ranks of the Russian MID and Ministry of Defense, thus using its newfound covert influence to change the course and scope of Russian activities and decisions in Syria?”
Who sabotages Russian soft power gains, Russian influence and achievements, Russian foreign politics?
The fact that Navalny, CIA asset, is still free, proves your point.
I believe you have very valid questions. The way this was explained to me in a dream was that for a while longer the deep state system would fight back against the spiritual change happening now. So, Putin cannot move too quickly against them. They infest everything, like bacterias in unclean water pretty much. As the temperature keeps rising, these bacterias will just die off. It is a slow process though. You want to give them time to adapt if they want to. Those that keep trying to resist, they will just go away. Look what happened with Beresovski for example. That guy just refused to behave even after he had lost the game. So someone took him out. I think the 9-11 attack was just another attempt by the deep state to keep control of the narrative. Their desperation grows as each ploy becomes more and more obvious, even to a still sleeping public.
I am sad that so many decent patriotic people have to pay the price to remove the deep state. It takes time though because they have enough bombs to destroy the planet. So we need to boil them slowly, until they come to their senses or die.
I hope someone can come up with more specifics than me but I doubt it. Everyone wants things to be secret. Even if Putin knew who did what, I doubt he would talk. Everyone is waiting for the game to unfold, they dont show their cards.
to your first point
Feb 23rd is “defender of the Fatherland” public holiday in Russia………..that would be symbolic……………………….perhaps.Perhaps Russia could itself use that “commemoration”.
of course this is unexcusable anyone asking for patience or same bogus excuse “they know what they are doing”” No obviously not they Do not, they hid strelkov after mh17 all are westerners who would not shed blood for donbass or russia this is crap all english russian websites just want western friends but none would shed blood, and also russians are told to be calm by these same westerners, heroes of donbass and rostov only even nizhny novgorod but not in moscow and not in st.peterburg, Russians need to wake up everyone is sleeping so to speak, we are being boxed in accuse me of panic? Russians always calm? thats bullcrap we are not allowed to act in our own interest SAKER should say this as Russian or you fifth column too– you know this is not coincidence abkazia ossetia and donbass are like little middle fingers to appease people but no true justice su30 and su25 t90 all go to assad but why does assad matter? Crimea is good but now we stopping? Advance in Molodova? EAEU will be here in 2020? not without ukraine BLYAT
@Antaz Almey: This blog joined the concert all along in May 2015.
Perhaps they will now believe critics like you or me rather than continuing to re-interpret everything as the latest smart chess move :success:?
you sure seem to know what other people should do – why don’t you do something productive instead of attacking the wrong side. Go to Donbass and join the army. Be productive !
traitors are everywhere, but moscow is worried about its ham and cheese, petersburg about salo from baltics, like before heroes of panfilov will come, zhirinovsky not hero only want credit for LDPR– Russia will suffer very soon, I am patriot but I know what is coming, they cannot arrest navalny, cannot defend heroes, we are left to wolves, every one asks patience, patience went out the window with our country, so sad to see betrayal this is a bid farewell to slavyansk, memories of heroes just a fad not true patriotism, shakes me, soon ingushetia and dagestan will be bad and they will ask for heroes, not this time
You know the difference between a russophobe who constantly blames Putin for everything and who predicts imminent doom and gloom for Russia and a patriot who constantly blames Putin for everything and who predicts imminent doom and gloom for Russia?
Neither do I.
PS: and it’s bliad’ (блядь) not blyat, патриот хренов… :-P
Dear The Saker,
I understand Antaz Almey’s frustration.
Do you recall Milosevic and his attempts to never make his western “partners” unhappy?
How did he end?
How did his country end?
Ah, and where is NATO standing right this minute?
US Tanks, Troops Arrive In Estonia As Part Of NATO Anti-Russia Build Up
How is your or our new friend Trump making it better?
Read more newspaper comments in Russia.
People are losing faith (those few that aren’t a bit f not too much pro-west to begin with)
Forgot the perhaps most important part:
“It’s hardly a coincidence that Henry Kissinger, for decades, the Rockefeller Family’s chief foreign policy advisor, with strong personal connections to Russian President Putin, has emerged as a chief foreign policy advisor to the Trump Administration.”
You tell me which friends somebody has and I …
From Putin point of view there is none, from Russia point of view there is!
Thank you for your input Mr. Putin.
Since murdering Givi had no real military value, this act was intended for psychological warfare. That tells me that though orcs may have carried it out, they were trained and operating under the direction of israeli-american handlers.
This assassination is obviously part of the ongoing escalation against Novorussia designed to renew the zionazi-nazi-gay propaganda war against Russia. The provocations against Novorussia are not some rogue ukronazi op, but part of a carefully planned zpc-nwo strategy in Ukraine, and throughout the globe, to break the Eurasian Alliance, using the trump regime’s phony peace rhetoric as a way to try and delay a Eurasian response as long as possible.
Yes, I think so, and wonder about connections with McCain and what’s his face — can’t remember the name at the moment, and their recent visit. Talk of two sides in Donbas and Russia, and oligarchs — that could be directed at US and NATO — and I suppose Israel fits in there somewhere. CIA and US def. dept. are most likely involved.
Of course there are traitors and Ukraine sympathizers, and agents, in Donbas, and have been all along. ‘Marbling’ and infiltration is everywhere, western countries included. Some of this is class warfare, with neighbor against neighbor and fractured families, and cultural schisms. This is one result of the lies and lying media, and ideological propaganda, ‘post truth’ where emotions counts more than facts and logic, and the ‘enemy within’ and fascist next door.
When propaganda and dysinformation are major weapons then the recipients of attacks are not geographically isolated, even on small scale, but integrated in the finest of granularity, even within families where husband and wife can be on opposite sides, coworkers have opposing views, and long time friendships are sundered.
How about some payback with visits paid to the war criminals in Ukraine, Israel, and the US?
Perhaps the name you were looking for might be:
Lindsay Gayham, apex Republican
c-ckservative: a petulant little basta-d who behaves like a woman scorned because Russia rejects the gay agenda being force fed to her children.
You gotta wonder how stupid and immoral the voters of his district are.
That’s him. I’m way past information overload and low on sleep and neurotransmitters for my memory.
I wonder how McC keeps getting elected too. Maybe Arizona has an extra dose of stupid in the water?
The problem with the us is not ‘just the government’, but a big portion of the people.
Did you see
A California assemblyman, introducing legislation to mandate that public schools teach students that Russia hacked the 2016 election, was humiliated by Fox News host Tucker Carlson for his stance.
I can feel the neurons and dendrites in my brain hooking up, connecting stupidity, Democrats, liberals, Nazis, Kiev together. Maybe the US, with the voters here, is a place where democracy is not possible?
(((Arizona))) is Ukie retirement heaven, Bandera’s follower’s from The Great lakes regions, and Canada have turned it to a dumbed down state, perfect for (((McInsane)))
McCain and Graham(a big pink fairy) – no offense to fairies- are 100% Zionists and always in lock-step with AIPAC’s agenda.
When it comes to being pro Israel, they will not allow thenselves to be outdone by anyone.
Dont know if you noticed, but they both visit Israel frequently and are always globe-trotting to promote and push Tel-A-Viv’s agenda, whether in Syria or Ukraine etc.
In return, AIPAC mobilizes tons of resources -human and financial – to ensure that both are kept in office.
They do put put America’s interests first and both are a disgrace to America, but they are the best stooges that Zionist money can buy.
In my opinion, the day Americans rise up and tar and feather the likes of these 2 sleaze balls, is the day America starts getting “great again”.
Arizona was already dumbed down in 1980 when I lived there. Judging from what Edward Abbey had to say of the place, from at least the 1950s, it was dumbed down.
In the angels company now. RIP
I was concerned that this would happen. Givi was a very charismatic figure, and good for Donetsk morale. The original Novorussian military figures are now all dead, and all of them assassinated, not killed in action.
Well, not all. Zakharchenko was appointed Military Commander of the DNR at the first meeting of the Supreme Council after the declaring of the republic, and can be seen in charge of security doing crowd control before that in February, plus he was in charge of the Donetsk protesters at the Anti-Maidan. I’d say that’s pretty early and often.
But what I’ve been meaning to mention amid all the conspiracy theories is that your chances of being targeted seem to depend on your prominence on TV, which I regard as a strong pointer that the targeting is done by a Kiev politician for propaganda value.
@ Th: Agreed. How you see your likely death as you see your comrades in arms sacrificed and how you see the response to the cowardly knife-in-the-back, traitor like assassination of a beloved commander is important in any people’s struggle.
At least it matters in the warrior ethos and I do not think I say this because I am an American infused with Hollywood hero/revenge, military glorification action movies, but because military blood runs in my veins. This was more like a Mafia hit and totally dishonorable. We Americans also call it “being a sitting duck” like what happened to the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor.
This is very, very bothersome and extremely sad.
“Givi” dismissed from tank battalion of Ukraine – not suitable military for Ukraine! He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
Totally disgusted and sad. Givi was probably the most influential figure for me, he drew my attention to the Donbass, and to the people fighting here. It is through him that I discovered the Saker, Fort Russ. He proved me to me that heroes were not extinct, that valor could still exist in our world.
But now it seems that heroes do have a short lifespan in the DPR and LPR. This is a very worrying trend. Either it means the whole administration is rotten to the core, or that the security services are incompetent. In any case, something needs to be done. If it comes from the junta, then the DPR/LPR need to retaliate in kind. Anything else would be a proof of weakness.
This brief overview of developments within DNR and LNR institutions concerning the appointment of Ukrainian fifth column inside those power and service structures. from Intelligence services to Medical services.
Everything referenced with names and dates.
Titled “Where that Comes From”, in Russian, translate with Yandex browser.
How is this possible?!
I knew (since Motorola) he is the next target!
They should know it too!
“How is this possible?!”
Because no one is willing to admit what the real problem is and where the real problem lies.
This is very sad, the last of the old guard NAF.
But it is not unexpected / especially with the intensive escalation of hostilities.
I think it was timed to demoralize.
I only hope it has the opposite effect – renewed determination.
RIP – Givi, a hero.
Not the last, but perhaps the last who was widely known. There are whole battalions left with many in them who can step up to the plate now. The best of leaders train their colleagues and leave behind a living legacy which ensures they are not indispensable.
Thirty pieces of silver was the price for which Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, according to the Gospel of Matthew 26:15.
Givi was betrayed by those willing to accept $ to betray him.
God bless Givi, a true patriot and Christian man protecting his home and country. 💒
RE: Givi’s untimely and disgraceful death. This was a man who deeply, passionately loved his people and would have wanted to die standing up face to face and to at least take a few out with him.
Ultimately, the long knives are practicing for Putin–do not think small–and they are in league with other factions within the society in order to carry out this nefarious act.
Thanks for being the site of unremitting truth…We all received so much flak and hysterical accusations when we tried to voice our deep concerns over the avoidable death of Motorola.
When a leadership( two in one week from behind the lines) gets picked off like this, the message sent to everyone is: you are not safe–not from the bombs above or within your own homes—see,we can kill even your leadership at will.
Not a good message to have served up to a people in resistance.
As with the other posters this is sad news.
I would like to add though that the tactic of taking out the leadership is a well known tactic we see from the Americans. Using drones etc
I am not sure how successful this tactic is – but they do it.
The safest way forward is for the leadership to not publicise who commands what.
I agree that Zach is a target and Just about anyone who is well known in Donbass.
Can we have an proper sit Rep on Donbass
This latest fighting has been going on for nearly two weeks
So sad. Givi was a hero in the fight for freedom. McCain and Biden are the bottom line in this terrorist action.
Sad day, today, when I red about I was not believing my eyes..
To my mind the powers behind the ukronazi are now trying all possible to escalate, they whish Russia to reply by doing something impulsively wrong to justify a higher level of war.
May Putin be the new Quintus Fabius Maximus.
Вечная память Мише!
What a sad day.
This is a psy-ops program to decapitate the public leadership of the Republics.
It only has to get Zakh to be complete.
The odds of him surviving another few months are astronomical. He is too courageous to hide. He goes to the front frequently. He runs to the sound of the guns. He bolsters morale of the citizens and the troops.
As Saker has said, the “militia”, the Army of Donbass, is a proxy that has always been under the leadership of Colonels and Generals of the RF. They function as forward defense forces to protect the RF. So, militarily, all that has been lost is the famous commanders.
Like Patton’s death, there are political reasons for these things.
I feel sad to lose a fighter for Liberty against Nazism. He was fearless.
But all these men who fight for Donbass are fatalistic. The real soldiers know death is inevitable in this war. They embrace that destiny. It strengthens them and resonates with the more timid. It is leadership. The fearless lead and perish, often.
The reality is that 40% of the Donetsk population is not so pro-separatism. They are returned Ukies and provide a sea in which the saboteurs and assassins can swim.
We can suggest that this does matter. But it doesn’t. The Russians will provide a top artillery man to run Somalia battalion or advise it unseen. Givi’s death will embolden more to volunteer and assist. It breaks our hearts. But it changes nothing important.
Donbass’s fate was sealed when Strelkov started the insurrection without Putin’s full backing, and tried to bait RF to send in the troops to save Donbass. Thereafter, all that can happen is geopolitical, not military conclusion.
What hurts is not one nazi or oligarch who finance the ethnic cleansing has been so much as scratched in return for the massacres of innocents or in payback for the assassinations. If Porky could be eliminated, a sense of justice would return to our perception.
Why the Russians don’t see to it that commanders, oligarchs and politicians feel the hot lead of Donbass is mystifying.
Scene inside the office.
Here’s the weapon used.
Not Poroshenko,he is too much a fool. Its best to keep him around for a while.But the SBU leadership and agents. Along with the Azov leaders and Western “handlers”. Those are all good targets in a Partisan War. After the first few eliminations send word that one more LDPR official murdered and they will all be targeted for elimination.Without any halting.I don’t know how to get through to people that waiting and holding back is always the wrong course when dealing with murderers.They don’t stop until they are “stopped”.As I type these words there “should” be people being sent to deliver retribution to the Ukrainian junta.There should be groups tracking and marking the targets.And if they can’t get permission from their Russian advisers,do it anyway.Its obvious by now that the “endgame” agenda’s aren’t totally the same between the victims in Novorossia and the safe “non-victims” inside Russia.So the wishes of the “non-victims” should never come before the “needs” of the “victims”.And its time that is understood by the individual soldier in the NAF. And acted on accordingly.
I think there are several reasons we don’t see Donbass reach out and kill Ukies.
The RF military has taken many of the Army of Donbass on rotations to Russia and trained them up.
They have learned to obey and to not disobey.
The Voentorg is at stake.
Their supply of volunteers, North Wind, is at stake.
Though the suffer at the front, they know they are part of the RF military, technically equipped with anything they will win to prevail.
And they know that back there in the rear are Colonels and Generals who have their back and know how to swiftly maneuver Ukies into cauldrons for them to destroy.
These men will not venture into deep Ukie territory at this time. They will stand, defend, take losses and inflict losses.
Though they have been under massive barrages of thousands of shells a day and front line snipers of high quality with leading edge sensing and sighting for their sniper rifles, these guys hold the line.
If an assault finally launches, they will prevail. That’s all that matters.
They were dealt a bad hand by Strelkov’s errors and ego.
Putin does what he does for Russia. Donbass is caught by fate and circumstance.
A bare 10% of the fighting age men were into this war. Many fled. There never has been an overwhelming popular support. It’s a separatist movement not a revolution. The north and west of Donbass has been in Malorossiya not Russia. So, the unity has always been dicey.And the society is heavily spiced with criminals and corrupt officials. Even Crimea is still cleaning out corrupt officials.
Putin has to try to get the best out of this mess. Only armchair generals like Strelkov and some commenters think it’s worth the cost to take in half of Donbass or wage more war in an effort to take all of Novorossiya.
It’s been a bad deal for the people in Donbass from the moment their President Yanokouvich ran from Kiev. They had elected him. He ran. Then Stelkov started a war he couldn’t fight and couldn’t win. Putin has had to fix the mess.
Could anyone imagine when the ATO began that civilized world would fund it, arm it and cheer it on? In fact, without Putin and the MInsk 2, the Donbass militias would have been labelled terrorists by international law and their fate sealed long ago. The US would have bombed the hell out of them with the West cheering.
So assassinations, bombings, sniping behind Ukie lines seems to be controlled by Russia, so the militia are not marked as terrorists.
Who are *you* to label Strelkov an “armchair general”?
And if it matters:
> Then Stelkov started a war he couldn’t fight and couldn’t win. Putin has had to fix the mess.
You have a bad memory: At the time Putin and the entire Kremlin were officially preparing an invasion into Ukraine should it become necessary to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine, this proposal went straight through the Duma.
Only this 100% outspoken reassurance gave civilians such as those brutally murdered in Odessa and Mariupol the courage to make pro-Soviet and/or pro-Russian or at least pro-self-governance demonstrations.
Putin watched how they all got killed, then from June 2014 on in Lugansk and later Slavyansk but we are waiting for the long predicted invasion until this day.
Stop talking badly about Strelkov.
Yes, we “know” it from Scott that he is a “western paid agent sabotage”.
No proof necessary – just believe it. All right mate.
You omitted 96% of how it all started.
Not Strelkov started a war, but the Kremlin did with its reiterated official statements it would defend DonBass against the Kiev junta. Then the Ukrops started murdering civilians in Odessa, Mariupol and Lugansk. Not sure if you ever saw the authentic footage on russian language youtube and vk.
The Kremlin gave empty promises and then changed his mind.
Now, maybe it was necessary to move to underground support. But this so far killed more than 10 thousand (likely far more than 15k) people, including many civilians, kids, girls.
Had Russia stayed strong Crimean style, perhaps (yes, who knows for sure?) this number would be close to 0.
Simply because Ukraine might never have dared to declare war if *really* dealing with the RF.
That’s not known and mere speculation.
But Scott and you denounce Strelkov and blame it all on him with some wording that you probably find very professional. Then you hope for people to not reminding how it really developed 3 years ago, and as a result you can continue presenting the Kremlin as being the most noble smart wizards. But not everybody forgot how it was.
I won’t argue. You obviously lack the proper information.
Ask Cassandra for some information about your hero.
Fact of the matter, nearly all his men turned from him. Why?
They eventually saw he was a disaster and fraud.
The demonization of the Kremlin and Putin is just more of your wish versus the reality.
Go to Gleb Bazov and that group of sycophants and write your drivel about Strelkov.
Putin told them to cease. They went forward, incited the Nazis and brought the ATO down on themselves. Motorola and his guys were heroic in defending the rear as Strelkov retreated.
He’s still got his public relations machine churning out his silly White Russia nonsense, and second-guessing everything.
Let him step back into Donbass and see how the great man is treated.
But I’m not the expert on Stelkov. Cassandra has reams on the guy.
You don’t even have the courage to post non-anonymously.
As for Kremlin’s announcements of 2014: You didn’t answer a single of the points I assembled.
Cassandra: Oh, until now everybody told me to ignore her, now I hear the opposite from you?
Gimme a break.
As for Gleb Bazov: The way in which he gets treated here (in contrast to how he got treated not that long ago) shows me, that one of us got hijacked by some aliens.
It is not true that “his men have turned away from Strelkov”.
More like the Kremlin didn’t want him in DonBass anymore and forced him to not return.
Read the archives. The Internets forgets nothing.
re: I think there are several reasons we don’t see Donbass reach out and kill Ukies.
You forgot to add the elephant in the room. The Ukies are the children of Russia’s partners. It would be bad for business and future relations to harm them. And the Kremlin seems to be very divided between pro-Western and pro-independence forces. To avoid a civil war, it makes sense for Putin to do just about anything to not escalate. Unfortunately, this may mean losing in the Donbass.
re: Could anyone imagine when the ATO began that civilized world would fund it, arm it and cheer it on?
Of course we could and did, including right at this blog. In fact, it is somewhat disingenuous to use that as a defense of Moscow’s policies when those opposed to them said as much all the time. This is war, and to talk about “the civilized world” is absurd. They want to win and put Moscow in a box and defang Putin. It is in their interests. You can’t blame them, you can only stand up for your interests. If you can’t stand up for your interests, then you are weak and deserve what you get. And this was the logic all along in what happened in Kiev. Western groups and powerful people, such as Merkel, likely thought that Moscow was weak and couldn’t defend herself properly. They were somewhat wrong, and had to switch to a slower strategy of gaining control, but the struggle is still ongoing.
President Putin is astute enough to see that he if doesn’t fight the Jihadis in Syria he will be fighting them in Chechnya and possibly Dagestan. It was also the case that when Sakashvili ordered the invasion of South Ossetia Putin acted at once and smashed the Georgian army in quick time – and then ordered it back to base. This was decisive leadership. It seems a pity that he does not apply the same logic to Ukraine. He has gone on record as saying that he will not let the Don Bass people be annihilated but then allows the Ukie army and the nazi militia use them for target practise. It seems that the initial rising in the Don Bass people provided a cordon sanitaire between Russia and Nazi Ukraine. Had it not happened the Azov Brigade would be at the Russian border less than 100 km from Rostov-on-Don. The Don Bass people seem to be performing the function of a human shield for Russia with Donetsk and Lugansk forming Russia’s front line against the Anglo-Zionist empire.
Russian policy in the present situation lacks firmness and is increasingly being perceived by its enemies as being timorous and indecisive. Part of the reasons for this seems to be the influence of the accommodationist faction within the Kremlin. Putin is balancing between two factions: Firstly what shall we call them, the pragmatists, for want of a better word, and the more assertive who believe Putin must take a harder line.
THE KEY question is this: Will Putin continue to support the relatively moderate pragmatists, or will he turn toward the “hotheads”? So far, he has split the difference: Russia has provided effective but limited support to the separatists, while at the same time hoping against hope to restore many of its ties with the West (or at least with Europe). Putin has also tried to conceal the scale of Russia’s intervention in order to temporize and to exploit U.S.-European and intra-European differences.
Currently, the pragmatists retain the upper hand, in no small part because Putin has kept his government team almost intact both in the cabinet and in the presidential administration. While loyal to Putin and prepared to execute his agenda, that team consists primarily of officials whose formative experiences have been in establishing economic interdependence with the West and in attempting to make Russia a major voice in a world order predominantly shaped by the United States and its allies.
Foreign Minister Lavrov and others supporting his more pragmatic approach argue that Moscow can still do business with the United States and especially with the Europeans if Russia doesn’t close the door. The “hotheads” take the opposite view, insisting that the West would view any moderation in Russian policy as a sign of weakness. Portraying themselves as realists, they argue that NATO is determined to overthrow Putin, force Russia to its knees and perhaps even dismember the country.
Putin’s reluctance to change course dramatically so far explains his hybrid war in eastern Ukraine, which helps the separatists without Russia formally entering the conflict. It also underlies Russia’s unpersuasive denials that it is giving military support to the separatists, which simultaneously make Moscow subject to justified criticism and create unfounded hope in Washington and in Europe that Russia will be unable to absorb higher casualties in a war in which it claims not to participate.
Moscow should, however, demand no less than any other great power would on its border. To wit: Security on its western frontier requires a special relationship with Ukraine and a degree of deference expected in major powers’ spheres of influence. More specifically, Russia’s establishment sentiment holds that the country can never be secure if Ukraine joins NATO or becomes a part of a hostile Euro-Atlantic community. From their perspective, this makes Ukraine’s non-adversarial status a non-negotiable demand for any Russia powerful enough to defend its national-security interests.
Of course it goes without saying that this eminently reasonable position will never be forthcoming from the Ukronazi state. So the whole bloody business will drag on – forget about the Minsk accords – with the Ukies getting increasingly emboldened by the uncertainty of the Russian position. Ultimately Putin’s centrist position seems untenable: he needs to come down on one side or the other and act as though the Don Bass is Russia, which it is, in a similar manner to the way he acted on the Crimea
re: The reality is that 40% of the Donetsk population is not so pro-separatism.
If that is true, which is debatable, the real question is “What would the percentage be if Moscow had had a coherent and moral position regarding the Donbass over the last few years?” Teasing them to where many or most expected an invasion or at least some reaction against pogroms and artillery shelling of civilian areas and then not even taking over management of the rebel zones to the point where Givi was killed inside Army HQ is not very impressive. Who can support that?
The reality is that the Kremlin hasn’t wanted a functioning government in the rebel zones, as then there would actually be some movement towards independence. It is the Kremlin that has been against independence, not the public. And even things like not taking Mariupol or getting the Kiev forces out of firing range of Donetsk have to be seen in this light. Moscow absolutely doesn’t want the rebels to win.
It would be nice if supporters of the Kremlin would be more forthright with their policy of integrating the Donbass back into the Ukraine. Instead, those of us who are dubious about it are called names. Many here at this blog argued that Old Man Winter was the Kremlin’s great weapon. It will force Kiev to come to terms. Has it? Or the incompetence of Poroshenko, the SBU, or the Ukrainian Army. The SBU may be incompetent, but at least they have an SBU. It seems that the rebel zones don’t even have one.
There were killed tens of millions on 1917 – 1920, there died 1 million during the Leningrad siege, 20 more millions during WWII, but the Dombas and Lughans massacre will remain the Darkest point in the Russian History, not because the will of the Russian people but because of the Hijacked Kremlin since 1985.
I mourn the loss of Mikhail Tolstykh. He appears to have been a no nonsense, B.S. individual who, at the same time, had a quite affable personality. I have little doubt that he was a vital source of motivation to his troops, and Novorossiyans overall, who undoubtedly are devastated over Givi’s murder.
May those who are responsible for this dastardly deed burn in ever-lasting hell!
Another Hero gone. RIP
The Russians really should have pulled Givi out and given him a safer role within Russia, he served his country and deserved that.
His response to such offers was: “I will fight and die for my land on my land”.
RIP Givi! For Givi’s sake. And, for the sake of the Donbass. Not ours.
For god sake, we can’t even protect our one people, even if we have gouvernment power and armed structures. Where is the the good MfS ( you use the Neocon therm Stasi) when you need them? That would have never happend in the GDR, because they where to profesional and had real diszipline! And nobody comes now with that bullshit ” But the opressed the opposition”! History has shown that these Opposition people are now the bastards who govern Germany and opress everybody, who’s still positiv about the GDR! If even Russia is not capable to bring order into the Donbass, because the Oligarchs and there Needs are more important, than there is not much hope left for the brave prople of Donbass! What a shame!
It has been obvious since the first time most of us became aware of Givi that both Givi and Motorola thought “security” was for sissies and a good photo op should be used to demonstrate how much you disdain it.
Remember Mr. Kool not taking shelter while the GRADS fly? Remember Givi after an assassination attempt, his car cut off, he says “No, I won’t get a body guard. I’m not a big shot. Who would want to assassinate me?”
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, our Givi, but put together like a stalk of bananas and a tank commander of rare gifts. If you never saw Givi describing what he did in a battle, try to find it. Very Zen. It went something like “I see the battlefield as scattered force fields. I see where they should be. Then I tell them to go there.”
It has not yet been several years since the conflict in Donbass began. I wonder if the Saker might want to rethink that crack about Givi being useless in battle for the past several years.
I think Zakhar can afford to stay off the front lines now. He had to get out there until the guys out there started thinking “Jeez, I wish he’d quit that.” The time may be now.
Personal security is irrelevant in the case of Michail Tolstyh’s assassination. He was in his office in the headquarters of the army, I repeat – the headquarters of the army and there he was murdered. Headquarters. How that could happen in your own army headquarters?
I would agree with this Anon that the competency of LDNR security services is a subset of larger issues if Givi wasn’t even safe in his own office in downtown Donetsk. Ultimately, even if Putin gives strict orders that the LDNR not retaliate, someone might not get the memo and decide to go hunting on their own.
Even on Jeopardy game, Judeo-Gringo propaganda, must hit Russia i.e. by a “clue” that new Russian 500 ruble depicts “annexation” of Crimea. Poor Gringos, the Ministry of Truth, f***s their minds anyway they want. They’re the most stupid proles on the planet Earth.
Magazine as National Geographic or PBS are the same shit. It fits the Agenda.
O’Roorke gave good advice: “Don’t vote, it only encourage the bastards”. That applies to all morons who use misnomers, which only encourage the Evil Empire by accepting its jargon. So sad that those who see better than others still fall for the same tricks.
Just heard a “Ukrainian rebel leader” had been killed. My first thought went to Zakharchenko. Now, still disbelieving, I know. How devastatingly sad!
Who am I to comment? I can only repeat: “Bottom line: this is totally and completely inexcusable.” How was that only possible?
My broken heart goes to all those who knew and loved the man.
May he rest in peace!
Let me take an exasperated guess… It will turn out (yet again) that”Plot”nitsky was somewhere in the background. (Yes, DNR LNR, notwithstanding.)
Wow, every single one of the heroes has been killed. All the great videos that were made, showcase these guys and they are all gone. Gone too soon. They were all young.
Its probably the Ukronazis with US Intelligence services helping.
How disgusting. The DNR army is not going to be the same.
Givi was so young. And Motorola. What a world we are living in.
They are heroes in the Spirit now.
God Bless Givi and Motorola
This is truly very bad news, not only for the loss of a talented and patriotic personality but moreover for the whole viability of the DPR and LPR.
Yes, he was just an untrained figurehead who certainly will be replaced by other motivated people. But what I think is being underplayed here is that in the global information age in which we now live, perception is nine tenths of the battle. Perception is everything, period. And the perception here is clear: if the Donbas can’t secure their most visible military commanders, just how in the hell are they to secure an entire county? This is at least the fifth (?) high profile assassination of the faces of the new republics. Now sure, one could chalk it up to infighting, fifth columnists, or high-level American/Israeli operational support, but the bottom line here is that both the DPR and LPR look like a couple of, sorry, god-damn banana republics.
The point is Kiev has been able to achieve through assassinations what it couldn’t on the battle field: bringing the viability of the republics into serious doubt and to have a festering ulcer on the soft underbelly of Russia. If anyone doubts the dire implications of this, they are seriously deluded. This is exactly what the US deep state wanted from the get-go, a quagmire that would drain Russian coffers, lives, and moral.
For the Kremlin to allow this to go on is nothing short of incompetence. While it was admirable that there at least be a veneer of independence and sovereignty for the DPR and LPR, Givi’s funeral should also be a funeral for that experiment. If it need be behind-the-scenes, so be it, but the Kremlin needs to step in and take full control of the military and militias in the Donbas. Motivated personnel are surely necessary in order to prevail, but without a competent command structure such motivation falls far short of sufficient to secure a victory.
Failing this, sad as it is to say, the young republics have little chance at succeeding.
another hero that might be at risk is Texas
I’d be very surprised if that was the case. Foreign fighters, revolutionaries, heroes are always welcomed. It’s the local population, those who have an actual claim on the territory that they are fighting over, who are the problem. The Empire seems to operate this way.
RIP Givi. One day an Avenue in Kiev will have your name.
ps Could have an armed drone been used against him?
Hopefully, the Avenue they hang The Kiev Junta and the RADA on.
I know only one entity who does these kind of “targeted killings”, someone in the past was right.
Not an entity who’s ,motto is “By deception we create war” is it?
They and their cohorts seem to be the main drivers behind the Ukro Mess (plan B for when the homeland fails).
very sad news.
somebody is killing “simbols” of resistance against nazi regime in Kiev. first, when Mozgovoi, then Motorola were murdered, i thought that was some personal revenge for war deeds of Mozgovoi and Motorola. but, now i think this could be just pathological hate crime. there are countless brave people there who can take place of fallen. there is no tactical, strategic or political advantage for Kiev of this last assasination. or, maybe, they are trying to hide some other special operation emerging. i can think of how thieves operates, if they want to confuse investigation, they will steal diamonds and by the way grinder, drill tools, empty few bottle of wine..etc.
police would be searching for amateurs,young people who like to drink and steal tools. but this time they found diamonds also…
this murder is very… confusing.
murdering those commanders,simbols of resistance, they are killing piece of us also,. we are not there physical. but, we are with them in thoughts. not knowing, they fight for all of us also. we owe them.
It is irrelevant weather Givi was a good military commander or not. Givi was a symbol of peoples resistance in Donbass. Motorola was a symbol of resistance as well. So was Mozgovoy. And so were many other assassinated heros. These murders cause a massive moral defeat for Donbass people. They show how vulnerable and unprotected is everyone in Donbass. PsyO in its finest. And what has Kremlin done and doing to prevent them? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And why not use the same PsyOp tactics and cause a chaos amongst Kiev nazis? Let the heads of Bandera scum junta role down the street. If Putin is not willing to upset his ‘partners’ with limited military intervention in Donbass, he can use so many other ways to bring these murderous thugs to their knees. Why allowing killings and suffering of Donbass people to continue? It is beyond me that Kremlin is ready to militarily help Assad and Syrian people against ISIS but so reluctant to do the same in Donbass and protect Russians living there.
Rest in peace,one of my only heroes
Exclusive: The body of Commander ‘Givi’ and destructions on the site.
Just wanted to take a break for a few days, when herd about this tragedy…the death of Givi, not killed in action but murdered in same way as his former well known comrades. The betrayal comes in my mind whatever the circumstances. This kind of “decapitation” tactic was written on the wall since 2015, probably will continue as log as there is no real action against the Kiev regime. I’m really sorry for him and hope that his soul will be healed and find his rest.
This fearless and charismatic young man did not deserve to be cut down.
He deserved to be protected and have a long life.
Why not to consider SOCOS/other instructors hand in this? Qui bono from Givi’s murder, who is celebrating it? http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/165950/?1fbritm5
No one celebrates it except Hillary Clinton in her straitjacket, and the Zionazi crazies in the basements.
They and the CIANN Ukropian mass media.
Quite clearly, this was done to play to the audience in downtown Kiev and Lviv.
The Ukrainian ghoul (CIA) media must be having a field day.
As several have said, the Ukrainian junta cannot score military victories so they hit soft targets in their offices and homes.
The intelligence problem is massive though. All Ukrainians except the most hardened and defective Maidownies speak Russian. The border between the former The Ukraine and Novorossija is porous. Saker and others are right, the FSB should be providing massive security to ease the burden on the people and fighter of Novorossija.
And perhaps it is now time to revive the Strelkov Doctrine – Liberate the Ukraine!
Perhaps Saker could tell us again, why Russia does not cite the UN Doctrine of R2P – Responsibility to Protect – and go all the way to Kiev with guns blazing?
MOSCOW, February 9. /TASS/. Russia expects the United State to use its influence to persuade Kiev to give up aggressive methods in the Ukrainian conflict resolution, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.
“As for the prospects of the Moscow-Washington dialog on the Ukrainian issue, we want to hope that Washington will somehow use its influence to persuade Kiev to fulfill obligations taken under the Minsk Accords and to give up aggressive tactics in the resolution of this problem, which we have observed in the past days,” Peskov told reporters. “The intra-Ukrainian conflict can hardly be the subject of any deal. This information in no way corresponds to reality. Moreover, the destiny of people who live in Donbass and who have been de facto rejected by their own country cannot be the subject of a deal either,” Peskov said.
doesn’t sound tooooo optimistic to me- in that case is Russia making contingency plans one wonders……………………..
“The people of Donetsk are fighting for survival, for the future of their children and everybody else,” Ivan Kratochvíl emphasized.”
Members of the Czech Retired Soldiers For Peace organization recently visited Donbass. In an interview with Sputnik, the organization’s president, retired Lt. Colonel Ivan Kratochvíl, shared his impression of the trip to the war-torn region.
re cossacks partaking in information war re Donbass, youtube channel, paper, radio…..
analysis of assassination and its context in Donbass………
not sure if much can happen here either
MOSCOW, February 7. /TASS/. Russian and German Foreign Ministers, Sergey Lavrov and Sigmar Gabriel, discussed a schedule of their future contacts, the Russian foreign ministry said on Tuesday after their telephone conversation.
Merkel says new Normandy format steps agreed with Putin on Ukraine
The sides discussed “the current state of the Russian-German relations, a schedule of further political contacts and large-scale multilateral events, including a meeting of the Group of Twenty foreign ministers in Bonn (on February 16-17) and the Munich Security Conference (on February 17-19),” the ministry said.
The Russian foreign minister “invited his German counterpart to pay a visit to Russia at any time convenient for him,” the ministry added.
The ministers also discussed steps towards more active use of Normandy format to implement Minsk-2 package.
“Furious Putin rips into Merkel over Ukraine, accuses her of complicity in ‘Kiev’s destructive acts ‘”
Putin is acting more directly now re Ukraina than I’ve seen before.
“However the single most powerful sentence in the whole summary is the one which reads as follows
It is becoming obvious that Kiev officials are trying to sabotage the execution of the Minsk Agreements and use the Normandy format to conceal their destructive acts.
(bold italics added)
This is a personal frontal attack on Merkel herself.
More than any other single individual Merkel is the key player in the diplomatic process known as the Normandy format. By saying that the Ukrainian regime is using the Normandy format to conceal its ‘destructive acts’ in eastern Ukraine, Putin is accusing Merkel of colluding in the Ukrainian regime’s actions.
The Kremlin’s summary does not say how Merkel responded. Almost certainly there was a furious row. It is fair to say that Merkel is not accustomed to being spoken to in this forthright fashion, and that she is more in the habit of reading out lectures to others than of being on the receiving end of them. Undoubtedly she would have been shocked and furious, but also – given the extent of Putin’s anger and the doubts we know she has about the support she is getting from Donald Trump – deeply alarmed.
The last paragraph of the Kremlin summary suggests that Putin warned Merkel to take steps to bring the fighting in eastern Ukraine to a stop – with the implication that action would be taken if she failed to do so – and that she agreed. The Kremlin summary does not say whether Putin gave her a deadline but the words “earliest possible timeframe” suggest he did.
Merkel has no interest in an escalation in the situation in eastern Ukraine, which if it results in another Ukrainian defeat can only expose the bankruptcy of her Ukrainian policy. She would not be the wily politician she is if she has not by now put aside her anger at being handed what looks frankly like an ultimatum. Her spokesman has said that she urged Putin during the telephone call to use his influence to “restrain” the militia, a comment which does not contradict the possibility that she was on the receiving end of a threat from Putin, but which on the contrary tends to confirm it. Importantly however Merkel’s spokesman is quoted as repeating the very last sentence of the Kremlin’s summary, using practically the same words”
I cannot fathom the grief that those who knew and loved Mikhail must be going through because I’m heartbroken and just some random stranger who has followed along on the internet. I loved Givi, from afar. He was so brave, humble, down to earth, elegant (yes, that, too) and selfless. What a terrible, senseless loss.
Others have expressed my own questions and concerns. LDPR does not have it’s shit together enough to deal with these threats; that much is obvious. Murder after murder and nothing is done – probably because LDPR doesn’t have the resources or, even, the knowledge about whom to retaliate against. So troubling. At this point, the junta or any of their filthy partners can waltz right in and assassinate anyone they want.
Oh I am so PO.
Never could be sure that those guys were as great as they looked.
Now I am sure that they were.
I am so so PO.
I am disgusted and I want to know, how does the murder of givi hinder or help with the Russian objective of ‘finlandizing’ ukraine and obtaining anglo acceptance that Crimea is 100% Russian?
Negotiations with the new US administration are nearly concluded. What’s left is some cleaning up by people who never gave a damn about Novorussia from the begining.
Poroshenko will live out his days in peaceful splendour. Kolomoisky too. That is all you need to know about how they view our heroes versus their own.
today my heart cries, for a man I never met, in a world where young men die on the orders of old men safe.
A number of people have asked “Why help Syria yet ignore the DPR and LPR”
In Syria, the country, its people, government and army were all mobilised to fight the terrorist invasion. Russia was therefore joining in their effort to turn the war round and assist the brave but slowly failing Syrian effort.
However in Ukraine – apart obviously in the DPR and LPR – there has been no resistance whatsoever to the regime. As far as I am aware there are no resistance groups challenging the regime. None.
When the Nazis occupied France and Holland and Norway there were active resistance groups fighting against the occupation. providing a focus for outside help.
But in Ukraine they just caved in, millions fled including the president who lost the plot and ran away.
Were there a resistance group operating in Ukraine there would be actual people that could be supported by Russia but there isn’t.
Harsh though it may seem the responsibility for getting rid of this regime is that of the Ukrainian people themselves. Why chide Russia?
Russia is already spending blood and treasure supporting the two republics not to mention caring for the million plus Ukrainian refuhgees.
And stopping the Zionist backed terrorists in Syria is not only a wonderful thing to do but prevents this filth moving into southern Russia. It is all the one war.
The Syrians have fought back tooth and nail for their country, as far as I can see the people of Ukraine have done nothing, absolutely nothing to liberate their country so why the hell should Russia get involved?
I am pretty sure that retaliatory action on behalf of the two brave and defiant republics will be getting planned. These are Russian people. But as for the rest of the country they naively thought they could shout in the Maidan, topple their government then have a standard of living like Germany. Get off your knees Ukraine and then maybe others will come forward and help. .And by the way who is it doing the violence to the people of Donbass. Oh yes that’s right, fellow Ukrainians.
I think you’re right, Greg.
I recently watched the Partisan War episode of Soviet Storm, and the contrast is stark between the anti-fascist will in Byelorus in WW IIand the lack thereof in Ukraine 2014-17.
The partisan effort to take out Wehrmacht General Wilhelm Kube in Minsk was relentless. Many failed ambushes,bombs,etc. But they just kept coming and coming and coming. A couple of women eventually got him. Maria Osipova, partisan fighter recruited his housemaid who placed a bomb under his mattress!!! Imagine the courage of a total civilian female walking past dozens of guards to pull that off.
It seems the Ukies have such capabilities of security penetration in the east but there is absolutely nothing of the sort in terms of any chance of underground resistance in Kiev. Yet. No popular will to resist to work with. Zilch.So the dirty “people’s war” irregular operations are all totally one sided.
And even with junta collapse, I fear that most of Ukrainians may never amount to anything that will assist in reversing this mess. Evidently it is a several generations problem, at best, with any positive resolution likely to be painfully slow over many decades to come.
I think you are wrong. There were and are plenty of Syrians who didn’t care for the Damascus government. They wouldn’t have gotten anywhere without enormous outside help, but just because Aleppo and Damascus liked the government doesn’t mean everybody else did.
So what has been different is that Moscow has not helped any resistance groups inside the Ukraine, and the reason is that they didn’t want to. They liked a united Ukraine, even if it was anti-Russian. As long as they kept the bases in the Crimea and the gas flowing. They actually seem to not want resistance.
Unfortunately, Moscow’s devious actions in encouraging resistance in the Donbass and then letting things go to Hades shows what their promises are worth. Russia only has two friends, right? And the Donbass and formerly Russian parts of the Ukraine aren’t in that list.
It is entirely likely that Pavel Gubarev is correct that Moscow could have gotten a huge rebellion in all of the Novorossiya provinces with minimal bribes, encouragement, and a few strategic acts of violence, such as grabbing a police chief somewhere. Face it. Moscow liked the old Ukraine, and has been working hard to bring it back, but wants a deal about no NATO. Good for them. Just don’t complain if it is even more anti-Russian than before. We can already imagine some more articles in the Russian media about how Ukrainians have betrayal in their genes – which will just lead to even more “Russians who hate Russians”. Funny thing, that.
Recall that when Donbas was about to vote for independence Putin said they should hold off with it. likely because he understood complications involved, and had other strategies in mind. He did not encourage resistance. He did not promise to get involved at the level you are speaking about, but he has sent a great deal of aid short of direct military action.
My recommendation at this point is not invasion of Ukraine, but elimination of the Ukrainian weapons and troops which are attacking Donbas and civilians — perhaps going into the ‘gray zone’ if needed, or even beyond, but not staying there. This might involve Russia directly, or perhaps only Donbad could manage it, maybe with additional Russian aid — that depends on the tactical and operational situation, which I don’t know enough about. It would be desirable to limit action to low populated areas as much as possible.
As for Syria, sure there were, and are, people there who are not that fond of Assad, but that’s a far cry from the armed rebellion which was imported from other countries.
I think you are falling into the syndrome of rationalizing too many of the Kremlin’s moves. Putin said he wouldn’t permit Kiev to use force against civilians and the Russian parliament voted to allow Putin to go to war. The Russian military went to the border. They incorporated the Crimea. He played the “vague” approach with statements about what the people in the Donbass should actually do. This vague approach was meant to scare Poroshenko, yet not be committal, but it failed bigtime when he or the US got the bright idea to test it. One pogrom here, one arrest of a Russian reporter there, and so on. At the end of the day, Moscow had to back down on everything except secretly organizing the rebel army to the point it could hold some territory.
Relatively little of this had anything to do with the popularity of the different political choices and personalities. It would be like trying to find out what Syrians wanted in 2013. Most just wanted the war to end and many or most wanted a less corrupt government in Damascus. A similar desire may be common throughout the Ukraine.
Your recommendation sounds fine, but the only practical way to do that would be to move the line of contact back some 20 or 30 kilometers. How do you achieve that?
You could move the line, or move the troops and weapons used against Donbas. Now they are in the gray zone, violating Minsk (as well as committing war crimes). But just destroying the military attacking from the border area wold go a long way to saving people in Donbas and discrediting Kiev.
Were up to me I would have acted more directly and violently against the Orks, but that would not have been without costs and could only have worked for a short time — and I don’t have access to all the information which should inform. such decisions so my statement is hypothetical.
I forget the exact phrasing, but it wasn’t that he would not let Kiev use force — there was an implication he would allow enough force to destroy the Russians population, or opponents, or a rebel defeat. Many at the time took it to mean more than he said. Yes, there has been death and destruction, but it is far from a defeat for Donbas, which is much stronger than when this began.
(Incidentally, while the loss of Givi is very grevious, keep in mind that those who were under him Somali have much more experience and skill now than Givi had when he started.)
Some early on wanted Russia to inade and take over Kiev, but that would have resulted in massive death and destruction for Ukrainians — more than there was — and would have resulted not in a resolution, but continual fighting and civil war, and great cost to Russia, and difficulty in not occupying the area (which is what the US wanted to happen — to enmesh Russia in a quagmire).
The only real solution is for the Ukrainians under Kiev’s thumb to remove the thumb.
re: The only real solution is for the Ukrainians under Kiev’s thumb to remove the thumb.
To remove a big thumb that has others pushing on it requires a team and training. Moscow never wanted to help build a team inside the Ukraine as it scared the oligarchs and the Party of Regions. Hearing those who suck up to the PTB in Russia complain about the lack of action by Ukrainians is almost insulting. Everyone who tried to organize anything got at best no help from Moscow over the last 15 years. All the while, the Soros team had trained thousands of specialists in everything relevant.
Oppressive regimes fall due to certain circumstances, such as outside help from a government or internal power elite fights, but rarely due to the people. They hardly count. The Maidan was just a coup with TV distractions.
well said Paul.
In 2014 there was some armed resistance outside of Donbass. The most notable example was the Kharkov partisans that hit a number of junta targets in Kharkov oblast. There were also a few cases of armed resistance in Odessa oblast (like a junta military train carrying war supplies to the Donbass that was derailed by an explosive device).
Rest in peace, Givi.
Former Canadian diplomat, Patrick Armstrong’s, “Everything You Need to Know about Russia This Week in 60 Seconds (RF SITREP)” from Aug. 29, 2014:
“KEY QUESTIONS. On February 21 there was an agreement; then the snipers. July a ray of hope, then MH17. What’s going to derail it now? Who wants Ukraine to get worse? Will the Europeans be distracted again?”
an opinion piece here
scroll down to Donbass article
you’l need google translate
basic theme is Ukraine employing beseiging tactics so often used in european history………….they have learnt from their masters………………
Killing of top commanders in this fashion, reminds me of killing of Pasdaran general near the Golan heights, the Nuclear Energy Scientists in Tehran and Mugnieh in Damascus (or was it Beirut). As is with Motorola and Givi, the essential common denominator is the ability to locate the target in 4 dimensions. The “kinetic” component of the act of killing differs. If there is a common operator, it would be interesting to compare these murders and deduct a common modus operandi, leading to the principal originator.
First of all, to suspect Putin/Russia of such acts is to play right into the hands of those committing these murders and plotting Putin’s downfall. This is exactly what they want, for the sympathetic public and the people of Donbass to turn on Putin and Russia.
Yes, one has to wonder why they were not offered more protection, seeing as there is an obvious pattern here indicating an attempt to sabotage the fledgling state by killing off the heroes that gave the people a reason to believe it was possible.
Considering the recent tragedies suffered by the RF: the assassination of Russian diplomats and the plane crash with the Russian military choir on board, does anyone really believe that Putin would have a hand in potentially turning so many patriots in Ukraine against the Motherland?
Nevertheless, I too am baffled by the lax security demonstrated by the RF, specifically, Putin, as the buck stops with him for allowing one too many tragedies and attacks against patriots to happen on his watch. Considering that Putin has the Empire trying to bring him down by any means; security should be a paramount concern for him and all loyalists and Russian patriots. Putin has outwitted the Empire in several ways; but this complacency in regards to security is making him look weak, indifferent and simply put; very bad. Of course it doesn’t help that Russia is also involved in Syria and Putin has a lot on his plate; but still it’s not an excuse; but greater justification for enhanced security.
It seems clear to me who is behind these murders and who has the most to gain, and there is more than one party involved in this sabotage. For the evil Empire; Putin and Russia cannot come out looking like the champion of a newly-created Russian satellite state. Instead the RF and Putin must look like the number one suspect responsible for its early demise.
From the Motorola article this part sticks out:
This very much reminds me of the murder by the Israelis of Imad Mughniyeh who was killed in Damascus by an Israeli bomb place in the headrest of his car: how did the Israelis get access to his car (in a very heavily protected government area of Damascus) without the numerous Syrian security services noticing? Impossible, of course. But onlyv the widow of Mughniyeh, now living in Iran, had the courage to state the obvious: the Israelis had top level accomplices in Syrian security services.
Yes, and, in this case, it’s obviously an ongoing operation that involves crimes against Russia as well. It’s an operation like the type used against Iran for example with the execution of Iranian scientists and physicists and the use of terrorist groups inside Iran to commit acts of sabotage against the military and the Iranian people. Such an operation as in Donbass involves sabotage and psy-ops meant to demoralize the resistance forces and the people as well. The repetitive nature of the killings without a suspect, without justice is a source of mounting tension; while decapitating the military annihilates hope and foments despair, building resentment and the need to accuse someone leading to suspicion and blame cast upon their own resistance groups, and Russian leadership creating division, and weakening resolve through fear and paranoia regarding the next target.
There are so many angles here all indicating a black operation meant to abort the nascent Novorossiya by decapitating leadership and sowing doubt and suspicion among the people in regards to Russia’s real commitment to this fledgling state.
As to the malicious actors involved, I would suspect the following: Ukraine, U.S. with CIA/Mossad collaboration as Mossad have recent experience in coordinating such operations. Since, this is still happening despite the Trump presidency, my guess is that policy vis a vis Russia’s involvement in Ukraine has not changed. If U.S. operatives are involved Trump who now green lights operations and gets daily intelligence briefings is no doubt very aware and complicit. Why should we trust this new Emperor who speaks out of both sides of his mouth and whose actions demonstrate he’s more like Cheney, than Bush or Obama?
just a thought…
there lots of ”russians” living now in israel, who, being fluent speakers of that
language could easily blend in, so to speak, in ukraine and be mossad trained.
come to think of it aren’t most of the oligarcs jews, both in ukraine and in russia,
at least till putin came along?
For what it is worth, Colonel Cassad had a post about the problems with counter-intelligence in the rebel republics. A bit hard to understand the translation, but here is an example:
It is also worth noting that recently one of the good friends told me about another operating diagram illustrates well the problem – the people of Ukraine traveling to Russia to work, go to the territory of the DNI or LC, for a bribe buy there a residence permit and further move to Russia and there is already listed as natives of the DNR and LC, as it is believed that for them there are more sympathetic than to immigrants from the Ukraine, as well, and recently explained – de jure documents DNR and LNR are not recognized. but de facto, they are quite a force in the territory of the Russian Federation. It should ponimaet that if the bulk of the latter-day “citizens DNI” simply going to make money, that among these people is relatively easy to carry out spy activities on the territory of the People’s Republic and in Russia.
Our people will get revenge when those in kiev will be tried for war crimes and sent to jail for life or better still hung by the neck
I am sadden but not surprised. Russia had traitors and treacheries through out the history like no other country. I don’t wanna say why, but I hope you guess why.
I could not understand what Givi was saying in Russian. But the attitude, the style of expression, the way he addressed the Ukrainian prisoners, asking them why they fought against their fellow citizens, everything made of him a gentleman. The type that, in the armies of old, would have been raised from a soldier to a general, possibly even with a noble title.
Much of Givi’s nobility, in my view, came from his simplicity and directness. What a contrast with the Pentagon peacocks, superbly corageous with somebody else’s skin.
Apart from any other consideration, I rate the loss of Givi, and before him of Motorola, a great setback for the cause of Russianhood, let alone the Donbass and the real Ukraine.
And I feel great, though powerless, anger towards the assassins. There may be great wisdom in Russia’s restraint, but unpunished crime to crime gives strength. So far, the concept, however obvious, is confirmed by events.
It seems to me that with the help of “foreign intelligence services” the Ukies can do such a thing. How secure were givi’s communications from the NSA? Could satellites monitor him? Are there western drones in the area?
Just a simple comment now.
R.I.P. Givi, soar with the sakers in heaven whilst we here on terra firma salute you for the man you were.
Not so simple. But instead ,very fitting and well spoken.
All analysis and everything else aside, I’m massively depressed about this. Through following this miserable war and watching hundreds of videos, I fell in love with the people of Donbass we came to know and Givi was always my favorite. They all were and are my heroes, too. Unlike the soldiers who go off to fight for their governments, these people stood their ground on their own land and faced down the NWO. That can’t be understated. They fight and fought and for all of us, everywhere, who only want our freedom and could be in their shoes tomorrow.
Some wmay wish to know of and bookmark
‘Texas’ at Essense of Time channel
Ukraine War Awareness channel (All Russian lang vids are translated)
Colonel Givi is now immortal comrades!
Real/great patriots are often sacrifised or killed, but their work will never die! I see paralel to many partizan comanders in WW2 or even before in Spanish civil war. They became victims of strange accidents&assasinations at the end of war, became to brave, to big…..shame.
I hope Donetck republic will build him great monument when war ends..to Slavjansk i Odessa bratja!
Seems most likely that Russia is continuing to kill off Donbass commanders whose patriotism and passion might get in the way of Kremlin wheeling and dealing.
Almost twenty-five years ago, in May, one of the greatest mafia Prosecutor in Italy, Giovanni Falcone, was assassinated in a striking terror act at Capaci, in Sicily.
Since that day, everyone knew that his friend, Prosecutor Paolo Borsellino, not less great in disbanding mafia clans and their political covers, would be the next to be assassinated. He also knew it.
Nobody did nothing to prevent it. In July of the same year, Prosecutor Paolo Borsellino was assassinated in a not less striking terror act at Palermo, while he was going to pay a visit to his old mother..
No matter who materially did those assassinations, the real culprits were the brood of vipers in the security system, in the government and political chambers in Sicily and in Rome, who in substance indicated the targets and stood watching, with lower level executives also actively helping in the murders.
Mutatis mutandis, this is the same scenario which has played out in the assassinations of Arseny Pavlov (Motorola) and Mikhail Tolstykh (Givi), and all the others before them, in the Donbass. No matter the material executioners, the real culprits are the brood of vipers in Donetsk, Lugansk and in Moscow.
Demonocracy 101 – An International Crime Syndicate and Local Little Bitches!
I’m not willing to add much to what I have already said about the tragic situation in Donbass. I will just point out some facts to all the smart and smarter analysts out there, daily lecturing us about how things must be done.
Since the signing of the Minsk agreements, ALL the best known militia commanders (and several others less known) have been assassinated (none of them has died in battle), no serious investigation has been done amidst all the blah-blah of the Donbass political authorities (serious investigations bring fruits!), while hundreds of civilians keep being slaughtered daily in indiscriminate shelling by the Ukrainian Army (with Western media and governments jumping all over the place to tell us how much they deserve it).
Minsk III will authorize us to affirm that the carnage of the people in the Donbass is entirely caused by friendly fire!
paul & maedrhos
It never ceases to amaze me how israelis can be so self obsessed in their propaganda, that they completely fail to see how offensive and counterproductive to their own interests their web spamming is to others. I guess this comes from living within a bubble of one’s own similar 2 dimensional superior beings, where everyone outside that bubble is untermenschen.
Do not project yourself into others, above all when these other force you to face facts, because it’s highly dangerous to your cover.
The activity of the local little bitches can be compared to the infiltration of the “more subtle thought”, pointed out by St. John Climacus and Abba Isaac the Syrian, a sort of “fifth column” inside the city, while it is under siege by the assaulting thoughts/armies outside the wall.
The strength of our soul is proven by victory over those passions which wage war by assault, indeed, but the fifth column prevents that strenght. The besieger thoughts/armies may then even not storm the city, as it is already captive.
One of the most loved mantra by the local little underbitches to prevent that strenght and to bound the city’s vital energies is the permanent whisper about the almost omnipotent nature of the attacking hordes or the doom awaiting any effective fighting back, any real payback in kind, or at least not now…. stand bravely taking bullet and bomb, hunger and misery, they will grow tired to kill you one day, they could get a better criminal at their head, they could even die by fatigue.
This is a summary of 3 years of comments by the BIP above.
The Mossad, CIA and whatever behind everything happening in the Donbass and the world at large, including lack of rain or earthquakes, as if they could do a damn thing without the local network of great whores and little bitches, underbitches, subbitches and week-end boys,
There are also nitwits squeaking to go there and fight, instead of pointing out the endless suffering of the people there and the inanity of the last 3 years politics. Well, cretins, go there and JUST LIVE in those places for a month; if after you will sign for the option to extend your stay by another month, only then you will be taken seriously!
This is the sad state of the nations, today.
A full blown tantrum, m, well done. :D
@Maedhros — Thank you so much for that link to Abba Isaac the Syrian !
In memory: “If one day, we aren’t here…” Givi & Motorola [Video]
Rest in peace, GIVI, we will always remember you as an example of courage and determination, to the point unbearable for Nutzis worldwide, and especially the most cowardly of them in the Ukraine. I trust in God that your death has not been in vane.
May I draw your attention to an article published at Sputnik from the 30th of January.
Let me cite the one and only paragraph of interest:
“Over the weekend, the British Royal Navy announced that it would be sending the HMS Diamond to the Ukrainian coast to help protect the 650 British troops currently involved in secret training exercises in the Eastern European country.”
Secret exercises announced in a “hostile” news agency are not that secret, aren’t they?
Somebody wants to make very clear and let us know who will be behind the next coming actions in Ukraine/Donbass.
For this time it is neither the US nor the Mossad. But serving the same masters too.That is for sure.
Now when I’ve said in the past that the NAF must target the Ukrainian SBU and the few competent fascist military leaders.As well as “target their foreign handlers too”. That story shows exactly who “some” of the handlers are who need targeting.You don’t win wars by handcuffing your intelligence services. And allowing your enemy to build up their levels.
DNR were warning coupla days ago of possible ukr provocation against Mariupol-due to the military movements heading that way-then blaming it on DNR………………to give reason for Tymoshenko call for martial law-would tie in with USA Senate hearing taking place now all the usual russophobia on show, plus the McCain keep sanctions thing going on too————–plus the other stuff reported ……..
I suppose if Odessa and Mariupol were strengthened, could act as a left and right pincer action against Crimea, at least as a threatening containment action as a minimum, following on from the ukr plane flypast provocation of Russian oil rigs etc in the Black sea last week or so?
It is a bit misleading to refer to this as a murder. Unless that is, you are to refer to all killing in a war zone as murder?
Givi appeared an interesting chap. Typical manly hero worship, yet why not eh? he came across as sincere and also perhaps decent. Still, he was fighting a war in a war zone. His death is the natural aim of those fighting against the Novorussians. Hardly a major scandal…
yet I understand that the story is more an angry, tense look at Russia who are of course supporting across the border in some way, yet not carefully or strongly enough for some. Yet for them to clearly be identified actively involved across the border leads to validation of the Kiev Junta and their backers’ allegations of basically the separatists armed, directed, supplied by the Russians.
The escalation in attacks does seem to step in line with Trump perhaps moving to ease sanctions and normalise relations with Moscow. Makes perfect sense. Similar efforts were made in Turkey, to derail Vlad positioning the sultan into ‘friendship’, with the ambassador crunched. It is the MO of the established powers of the anglo zionist power structure…
Interesting read of Vlad’s admonishment of Merkel…http://theduran.com/furious-putin-rips-merkel-ukraine-kiev-destructive-acts/
And also the suggestion of Russia placing some form of symbolic military hardware back in Iran to make the US think thrive before launching ANY kind of attack.
How strong that relationship is remains to be seen. There were a fair few, unconfirmed reports of Russia at least listening to the anglozionists offer them a deal ‘keep Syria, Assad can stay…but Iran is OUT the Middle East, OUT of Yemen, OUT of Syria, OUT of Iraq’…I hoped that Moscow would have done the russian thing, which is to sit and to listen, then politely declined.
It is a bit misleading to refer to this as a murder. Unless that is, you are to refer to all killing in a war zone as murder?
No, we refer just to the killing during a ceasefire agreement you have signed as murders!
The Kiev fiends have been breaking the so called ‘cease-fire’ over and over again, and I assume the Novorussians have been firing back in some way. It happens in a war…I am not at all in support of the Kiev junta, western installed and supported. They are neo nazi scum on the whole…
They appear to be receiving help from likely MI6 or CIA or some other western death machine, as they steadily march on with their saboteur routine, quite impressively really.
Is Surkov not up to the task…i thought he had been given the region to deal with not long back after Gryzlov failed to make much ground?
What what would you do know if you were in Zaharckenko’s shoes right now? Wait for the next bomb to go off, or push Russia’s hand by attacking the Ukrainian positions and attempting to advance on Kramatorsk & Slovyiansk axis? The latter alternative might show the Donbass people Russia’s true hand in this game. I always had misgivings about the current Russian leadership. They have literally thrown the Donbass people under the bus. Despicable. Notably Givi’s deaths has not been reported on either Sputnik or RT website. That speaks volume about P
“Notably Givi’s deaths has not been reported on either Sputnik or RT website. That speaks volume about P”
I noted this to Saker on the 6th. It is inexplicable.
Though other news sites have admirable reportage.
We do know that Putin and Trump just has another long phone call, yesterday.
Trump stonewalled Porky lasts weekend on that brief phone conversation. And Yulia never got close enough to talk when she tried to get to see Trump.
What do we make of this stuff?
Nothing. Nothing has changed.
Donbass will not fall. The border will not change. Minsk 2 will not be fulfilled. Russia will not invade. And Ukraine will never get well. How long will this state of unhappiness remain? Maybe five more years if Ukraine does not change.
How much pain can Russia take? Sanctions forever. They don’t care. They won’t bargain.
How much pain can Donbass take? About the current level. Not much more. But it’s at about 10% of what warfare brings in civilian and Army losses.
How much can Russia afford to do for Donbass? About the level of the last two years. Not much more.
Who decides when things change? Maybe Akmetov who has taken substantial losses in his assets and now is clearly targeted to be wiped out by Porky. He was the reason Mariupol was never taken. He needed it for export of his products mined and made in Donbass.
Maybe Trump decides. But he is under enormous pressure from the neocons and Khazarians in and outside the government in many more places than just Congress. The Deep State wants this proxy war to go and on.
Maybe the Russian people say to Putin to clean it up. For all these sufferings so far they have told him overwhelmingly to stay out, don’t send in troops.
Maybe Poland, Hungary and Lithuania want to chew off their pieces of Ukraine. That would change everything.
Meanwhile, it’s a tragedy that Russia is managing. People will die and many wounded. But that’s the cost of something the Kremlin did not start and did not want.
Once they recognized Porky’s election, the long war began. Russia has some strategic goal. Only the Kremlin knows it. We cannot fathom it. Nor can we judge it fairly.
Just recall this. The first great boiler was accomplished by Russian GRADS fired over the border destroying 2 Ukie armored brigades in five minutes. They are willing to do what needs to be done.
re: How much can Russia afford to do for Donbass? About the level of the last two years. Not much more.
There has been talk of a one-off 10% tax on all the trillions the oligarchs stole back in the day. That would go a long way in the current crisis.
Speaking of the topic of what the war is costing Russia, shouldn’t the costs be going down substantially now? Alternative ways of delivery or supply, people finding jobs inside Russia, a smoother system for getting things in and out of the rebel zones, and more should be fairly far along by now.
Trump will not get involved the Ukrainian/Russian problem. He will be way too busy to stay alive and eliminate the vast army of brainwashed liberals and hard line neocons from key governmental positions for him to have either the time or the energy to purse this Donbass issue. Secondly, Trump likes battles where he knows he stands a chance to win and show off his win (populist). He knows this one is not a winnable one for US, so my guess is that he would pass the buck to the European elites and let them handle it.
Mu hearth is full of pain. RIP Givi. You were real hero. I’m so sad. Young, brave and patriotic, Givi was light in time of Nazi darkness, hero among ordinary people. RIP Givi. This is not way you should left us. You brothers should revenge you.
“There is a major problem”
Yeah. The schmel has a 2.1 kg fuel-air explosive warhead with a 3m blast radius. The sighting range is 600 meters and the maximum range is 1000 meters. How exactly do you protect against ‘bumblebee’ thermobaric rocket-launched grenades? The Saker would have them cower. They, however, lived as men. They expected to die (anyone if war not doing so is a fool) and created their units accordingly. The loss of Motorola and Givi is a tragedy, but not a disaster. The Novorossian military and people will come out stronger. It is ironic that if they hadn’t been made focus of media attention (Motorola in particular did not like it, initially at least), they probably would not have been targetted and would be alive today. Such is the price of being put on a pedestal.
RIP the heroes. Damnation to the cowards and their supporters.
Keep thinking of this great video RIP to a TRUE Hero in the age of deceit https://youtu.be/BwO5rnJvzT4