This column was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/flight-mh-17-one-year-later/
Over a year has passed since Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 has been shot out of the skies by somebody, but we still don’t know the truth and all sorts of hypotheses are circulating on the Internet. In the West, the Emperor Barak Ist decreed on the day after the actual shoot-down that the party responsible for this atrocity was, of course, the Novorussians. That is as predictable as it is irrelevant since not a shred of evidence has been presented by anybody in the West. In contrast, the Russians did provide quite a lot of evidence, but it was all immediately dismissed without further ado. Again, this is also as predictable as it is irrelevant. The undeniable fact is that the western narrative about the Ukraine absolutely mandates that either the Russians or the Novorussians shot down MH-17. Any other version is completely unacceptable and therefore shall never be considered, nevermind accepted, by the western politicians and their corporate media.
But for the rest of the world the question remains opened: who shot down MH-17 and how?
The first thing we know is that the Ukrainian traffic air controllers directed MH-17 to fly directly over the combat zone and to lower its altitude. We also know for a fact that there was at least one Ukrainian aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH-17 that day. This was confirmed both by Russian radar signals and by several local witnesses who saw at least one, possibly two, SU-25 aircraft in the air that day. Finally, we also know that Ukrainian air defense units were present in the area that day and that their radars were active. What nobody saw that day was the kind of large and highly visible smoke plume which would have accompanied any large missile launch, not did anybody hear anything special. Apparently, no missile launch, and yet the Ukrainian radars were active. How come?
I believe that MH-17 was shot down by a Ukrainian SU-25. Critics of this theory have pointed out that the SU-25 is a “close-air-support aircraft” which was designed to fly very low and to engage attacking amour columns, that it was never designed to fly very fast or very high, and the SU-25 does not have a radar or air-to-air missiles. Finally, the cockpit of the SU-25 is not pressurized which means that the pilot cannot fly over 7’000 meter in altitude. This is all quite true. But it also misses the point.
First, while it is true that the cabin of the SU-25 is not pressurized, all a pilot needs to do is use a mask to supply him with oxygen. The aircraft itself can easily fly well over the 7’000 meter limit. It is true that the speed of the aircraft is inadequate to intercept a large civilian jet flying at its cruising speed. The SU-25 engines were never designed to fly high and while they can be made to bring the aircraft over 7’000 meters, they cannot develop enough speed in this rarefied atmosphere. But what the SU-25 can do is carry a R-60 infrared-guided missile. Not only does such a missile not require an engagement radar, but it’s speed is over 3’000 kilometers per hour, way faster than any civilian airliner. The problem with the missile, however, is that it’s range is short, about 8’000 meters.
The SU-25 does not have a radar capable of detecting a civilian airliners and guiding the SU-25 towards it. But the Buk missile radar battery definitely does. Since the course of the MH-17 was known well in advance, all the Ukrainians had to do was the keep one or two SU-25 loitering at low altitude under the air corridor which MH-17 would take and wait for the Buk missile operators guide the best placed SU-25 towards the airliner at the appropriate moment. All the pilot would have to do when given the signal was to sharply climb towards MH-17 and get inside the missile’s flight envelope (in this case within less than 8 kilometers of MH-17) and then fire off his R-60 missile. At that point, the missile would guide itself towards the biggest heat source of the aircraft – one of the engines.
The R-60 is a rather small missile and it would never be able to destroy a large airliner like the Malaysia Airways Boeing 777. But the R-60 is more than capable to destroy one of the Boeing’s engines. At this point, the airliner would rapidly lose speed and enter into a sharp turn while the pilots would be trying to figure out what happened, extinguish a burning engine and compensate for the increased drag. This is exactly what was observed on radars, by the way. The rapid loss of speed and altitude would make the Boeing easy prey for the SU-25 which has a powerful cannon on board which would then easily catch up and finish off the attack with a volley of 30mm cannon fire. Having finished off it’s target, the SU-25 would then sharply turn and return to its base. This is exactly what the Russian radars saw.
One might wonder why the Ukrainian would use a close air support aircraft like the SU-25 instead of a dedicated interceptor like the SU-27 or a fighter like the MiG-29. Here again, the explanation is very simple: not only does the Ukraine have many more SU-25s than SU-27s or MiG-29s, but these would also be very conspicuous to any witness. In contrast, the one (or, possibly two) SU-25s tasked with the destruction of MH-17 would be very easy to conceal in the eastern Ukraine and on any airfield. It is precisely because the SU-25 would be an unlikely aircraft to be given such a mission that it is the perfect aircraft to execute what is a textbook example of a false flag attack.
As for the Buk, it is such a big and conspicuous missile system that it is impossible to hide. Furthermore, had such a missile been fired broad daylight, the launch would have been clearly seen for many miles around. However, as long as all the Buk battery was doing is guiding the SU-25 towards MH-17 nobody would have noticed it. Nobody except the Russian, NATO and the USA, of course.
As somebody who has personally monitored military and civilian air traffic over Europe, I can attest to the fact that several militaries in Europe are constantly monitoring the entire airspace between the Atlantic and the Urals. These countries include the US and NATO. This is especially true for a battle zone. In fact, US and Russian AWACS aircraft are always present when a conflict occurs anywhere near Europe. They have been monitoring the war in the Persian Gulf, the war in Bosnia and Croatia, the war in Afghanistan and many other conflicts. Besides their AWACS, the Americans and Russians also use their space based satellites to monitor any conflict zone. Of course, neither side is willing to share all the detailed information it has, but the real problem here is political: the US won’t share anything at all because of the need to protect the regime in Kiev while anything the Russians would share will be immediately dismissed as “propaganda” (which is exactly what happened with the little the Russians did share).
I would add here that if had been the Novorussians who had shot down MH-17 the US could easily have proven it just as they have done it with KAL007 in 1983. In fact, in the 20 years which separate us from the shooting down of KAL007 US intelligence capabilities have considerably improved, so I would expect the US could provide much more data than just radio intercepts. And yet the US provided exactly *nothing*. There is only one logical possibility for that otherwise bizarre US refusal to provide any data at all: the US points to the “wrong” party. In other words, the fact that the US is not releasing any data all all is, by itself, an indirect proof that the Ukrainians did it.
As for the Ukrainians themselves they, of course, know *exactly* what happened and there is no need for them to “investigate” anything. So there is really nothing left to investigate. The Ukrainian did it and the West will never admit it.
End of story.
Wow, ties up all the loose ends; better than reading Sherlock Holmes.
Israel did it. There is plenty of evidence on the internet.
Just like the massacre in Odessa was orginized by Israely citizen Kholomoisky.
Silence is not a legal defense.
The “noise” emitted in the Western media is to obfuscate the obvious.
The nations conducting the investigation are complicit in the crime coverup.
The travesty will not stay buried too much longer.
When Ukraine finally loses the war, shortly, and the junta runs for cover into Canada and the US, the remaining suckers in Kiev will spill the beans.
This crime is a huge criminal act. It cannot be held secret too much longer.
true, but that’s why they have to be beaten first! that goal still seems far away
Q; When Ukraine finally loses the war, shortly, and the junta runs for cover into Canada and the US,
YikesYats declared recently that the Ukraine isn’t his historical homeland and with Proroshenko also being a tribal member, this twofer will most likely end up in the arms of the Apartheid State [where so many criminals live safe and sound, and moreover, are protected from being held accountable for their misdeeds].
Unless the new peoples government,shall we say,adopts the old tried and true,KGB method.And eliminates them at the first opportunity. Yes,I’m an optimist.
Yatsferatu will require a wooden stake through the chest.
When do you expect the truth about World Trade Center building 7 to be released and acknowledged? It’s been a few years now. Or even JFK for that matter.
They’ve lied about the JFK, MLK and RFK assassinations for forty years. They still lie about 9/11, Saddam’s WMD, Iran’s ‘nukes’, Chinese ‘aggression’ in the China Seas, Putin’s ‘aggression’ in Ukraine etc. So long as the Western MSM remains a mendacious propaganda system entirely populated by lying vermin whose well-paying jobs depend on 100% ideological reliability, 100% of the time, the truth will never be acknowledged in the West, and the brainwashed moron populace, indoctrinated to hate ‘evil Putin’ will believe exactly what their Thought Controllers tell them to believe. That is the essence of really existing Western ‘Freedom of Thought’.
Desperate to find a pretext
MH-17 flight: Another tragic incident to be exploited
I forgot to put the link about Israeli involvement. The text was written by Christopher Bollyn –
An interesting conclusion:
” There are some who might find this line of reasoning to be unfair to Israel, “the Jewish state” and “America’s best friend in the region.” To them, I would simply say: You do not understand the true nature of the Zionist beast. Israel operates like a gangster state that uses murder and intimidation to force nations to submit to its will. The Israelis would think that the downing of MH17 should be considered a message to the governments of Malaysia and The Netherlands and that other nations would be wise to take note of what happens to countries that challenge Israel.
If Israel were a person it would be a psychopathic serial killer on the loose. The psychopath who is a serial killer might appear to be a nice, intelligent, and civilized person – but that is only how he appears. When no one is looking he murders people in cold blood and gets away with it, time after time. The fundamental problem with his worldview is that he believes that he is superior to other people and that their lives are worth nothing. This is exactly how the Jewish supremacists who rule Israel view non-Jews. ”
My first response on seeing the link was, “yeah, right.” But the article seems to be pretty even-handed reporting facts that can be verified. I think this conclusion is sound:
Also, whatever happened to Malaysian Airline flight 370?
Yes, concerning the very topic of the Saker’s article, the conclusion which you quoted sounds more sound.
Anyway, Bollyn’s analysis is very convincing, from the start to the end. Take note of this part, for example:
” We know that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down while flying through the air traffic control region of Dnepropetrovsk, where the governor, Igor Kolomoisky, happens to be an Israeli billionaire involved in aviation companies. Furthermore, Yaron Mofaz, a relative of Shaul Mofaz, former chief of staff of the Israeli military, oddly took a photograph of the ill-fated Malaysian plane at the airport in Amsterdam shortly before it was shot down, which he then provided to Reuters.
( IGOR KOLOMOISKY (2nd from left) the Israeli governor of Dnepropetrovsk is a prominent supporter of Ukraine’s Jewish community and the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine. He owns several airlines as well. MH17 was in the air traffic control region of Dnepropetrovsk when it was shot down. For reasons that have not been explained MH17 was diverted from its normal route and instructed to fly across the war zone at a lower altitude of 33,000 feet by air traffic control of Dnepropetrovsk. Click to enlarge
Yaron Mofaz, an relative of the former Chief-of-Staff of the Israeli military, took this photo of MH17 before it left Amsterdam on its ill-fated flight over Ukraine. Mofaz works with a company that owns a similar Malaysia Airlines plane that has been kept in a hanger in Tel Aviv since November 2013. So, why did he take this photo? Click to enlarge )
Yaron Mofaz also happens to be a director of a Mofaz family company that works closely with a company in Florida that owns a former Malaysia Airlines airliner, virtually identical to the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 and MH17. This Malaysian airliner, it just so happens, was sent to Israel in late 2013 where it was parked in a hangar in Tel Aviv. For these and other reasons it is logical that we consider the possibility that the shooting down of MH17 was an Israeli false-flag operation with a twist. Therefore, the real question is not whether Israel was involved, but to what degree was Israel involved in the atrocity? ”
No paranoia here at all. This man, Bollyn, is just observing the facts and makes conclusions that are logical.
If the picture in the article is the picture of the plane taken at the airport — the one that circulated at the time of the shootdown — then it isn’t a picture of MH17. The plane in the circulated picture had a different number on the wheel flap. I checked it carefully at the time.
I don’t have an opinion on whether you are right or not (certainly the Israelis wouldn’t “not” do it).If they did it it though,it would have to have been a join effort with the Ukrainians (they couldn’t just do it without the Ukrainians knowing and helping).With the US being Israels stooge,and for some reason Russia’s reluctance to condemn Israel,it could have been them.Hopefully we’ll know at the end of the day.
Russia is scared of Israel just like everyone else, because Israel controls 80% of the world’s finances and 95% of the world’s media.
That is according to a specialist for foreign affairs of the Soviet Union who publicly said that back in 1979. and a week later was arrested for the murder of his own wife, I forgot his name, but I have it somewhere in my files on the Jewish question.
Basically, the world doesn’t stand a chance against them. Norway thought it can do something, but then Breivik happened to them (Breivik worked for Israel and confessed he is pro-Israel and a Free-mason).
For example, former world chess-champion Bobby Fischer denounced the Jewish role in the bombing of Serbia-Montenegro in 1999., and to this day his interviews on the subject are not translated in Serbian language, so people have no clue (well some do, but majority is blissfully ignorant about who was killing them). Bobby Fischer died as a refugee in Island. The man who installed United States on the throne in the most traditional Soviet sport.
Well just look at Christopher Bollyn’s biography and how Chicago police broke his arm after he dared to interview a Jew inolved in 9/11 attacks. It is ridiculous. Alan Soral speaks truth when he says their behaviour will eventually produce a new Hitler sooner or later.
Unfortunately, Bollyn is correct. The Zionazi ideology was summed up by Jabotinsky, the fascist Godfather of the Likud tendency (whose influence, through his acolyte, Begin, and the Herut Party, the precursor of Likud, those great Jews, Einstein, Hannah Arendt, et al warned of in a letter to the NYT in December 1948)who stated that ‘We will kill anybody who gets in our way’. And it has copious and repeated endorsement by orthodox and ultra-orthodox Rabbis and ‘Torah Sages’ who repeatedly declare murder of the goyim to be not just acceptable, but a religious obligation, a good deed or mitzvah. While fascism and general psychotic murderousness is common throughout humanity, its worst expression is surely where it bears the imprimatur of ‘religion’.
No MiG-31s for Damascus: Russia Denies Sending Interceptors to Syria
Russia has not sent Mikoyan MiG-31 supersonic interceptors to Syria and does not intend to operate the aircraft in the war-torn country, CEO of Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG Sergei Korotkov stated refuting recent rumors.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150822/1026049778/no-mig-31-for-syria.html#ixzz3jek3a088
too bad. I feel sorry for the Assad regime, it’s not like they are asking Putin to send Russion troops to fight for him, he’s just asking for weapons so his people can do the fighting.
He only said Russia will not be Operating them. Today a Russian made fighter jet brought down an Israeli warplane over Syria, operated by a Syrian pilot.
However, just because the CEO of a company says that no Russians will be operating them………
And what of Sukhoi?
Notice never gets mentioned.
Check out their 50 series= 5th generation now testing utube videos.
Could this be a coy ploy/wink that seems to infer ‘no MiGs= no a/c any type’?
As Sherlock would say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But with everyone so crazy these days about smart phones, selfies, etc., the lack of any pictures or video that a roaring Buk launch would have left is remarkable.
now explosions in US military base in Japan. Is some kind of tit for tat low grade sabotage operations taking place between not so friendly nations ???
Of course, since first explosion in Tianjin was obvious that was not an accident.
To see where is going all this.
Well “if” those explosions in China weren’t really accidents.Then this explosion in Japan could be a “subtle” way of saying, two can play that game.Then there is also the possibility it is connected with the North Korean situation,or Japanese not happy at US bases,or something with ISIS,or then it could just be a real accident.So many choices,to chose from.Hopefully we’ll find out soon.
Update: Now a huge fire has broken out at a factory in Tokyo.So unless its “also” an accident,then who knows what’s up.
It likely wasn’t an engine seeking R-60 since the MH17 engine damage is inconsistent with a missile hit. A radio distress transmission would be likely and detectable jamming necessary.
An Israeli Python missile hit on the RHS nose fits the cockpit damage seen -as explained very precisely and scientifically in the link below.
It also explains why everyone is quiet -any Israel connection is untouchable.
Regardless, metallurical analysis and autopsies will have long since determined whether there were 30 mm cannon shells and/or missile fragments/shrapnel. I have yet to see any refutation of this explanation:
“The missile that attacked MH17 had a passive radar homing head, which explains why the missile exploded so close to the cockpit. Under the radar-transparent nosecone of a Boeing 777-200 there is a surveillance radar station operable during the flight, so most likely the missile homed on to this radar as the target.
Apart from a radar homing head, the missile could also be equipped with an advanced, matrix type, imaging IR seeker, which enables the missile to determine the size and the type of the target and choose for attack its most vital element. For a huge Boeing aircraft, that’s the cockpit.
A simulation of the missile attack has proved that missiles with that type of guidance choose to attack a big passenger plane from the front hemisphere.
There are four air-to-air missiles that fit the description established by the experts, namely: French Magis-2, Israeli Shafrir, American AIM-9 and Israeli Python – all short-range.
The first three have been struck off the list for various reasons, including type of warhead or guidance system specifications. The Python deserved a closer look.
The Python is equipped with a matrix-imaging IR seeker. It enables a relatively moderate power warhead to effectively engage big aircrafts. The warhead is armed with a set of ready strike elements. Even more importantly, some open military sources suggest that in early 2000s a number of Sukhoi Su-25 assault fighter jets we refurbished to use fourth and fifth generation Python missiles, which look very similar to the Su-25’s standard air-to-air R-60 missile.”
At this moment in time I take no position on the Python vs R-60 missile issue. I favour the R-60 due to Occam’s Razor’s logic: it is the simpler explanation. But that does not mean it is the correct one. Likewise, some have suggested that a MiG-29 could have been used instead of a SU-25. Again, I think that the SU-25 makes more sense, but I am not willing to dispute the MiG-29 theory, at least not at this point in time. What I can say is that the Python theory has some very solid argument going for it (you mention some) and that there is also strong indirect evidence that Kolomoiskii was involved. So all in all, I am *very* sympathetic to the “Israeli” theory, I just don’t have enough information (yet) to back it.
Absolutely; plus an R-60 that detonated just slightly too early from the front (what kind and intensity of I/R signature would the weather radar in the nose cone emit?) or too late from behind, thus mostly missing the engine pod, would in millseconds reach the LHS cockpit area where the most damage is evident.
The lack of a 7700 transponder code or a mayday call can also be explained by the pilot’s rule: ‘aviate, navigate, communicate’ and in that order, or in other words ‘fly the damn plane, everything else is secondary’. I have to assume, since radio transmissions are not encrypted, that someone somewhere would have recorded any conversation and published it -or it was jammed.
I have not been able to establish the dimensions of the strike elements -shrapnel- in either the R-60 or Python. The BUK amongst other reasons seems far less likely as it is designed to detonate overhead and at the front so that the target flies through a wall of shrapnel. Also the shrapnel of the 2 kinds of BUK are too large for the holes shown. As for the 20mm or 30mm cannon theory, some question the quantity of holes in such a small ‘bullseye’.
What I don’t understand is Russia’s reluctance to publish compelling evidence. They must surely have immediately obtained sufficient wreckage to determine from chemical and metallurgical analysis what hit MH-17.
But Russia gave only mild denials, consequently the Hegemon and its vassals have won the propaganda war hands down -and even continue to do so dropping BUK hints and this latest tribunal nonsense. The Russia-BUK-MH17 meme is baked in now and the damage permanent.
Dear The Saker,
As you say it is the complete lack of evidence that points all fingers to Kiev – no atc tower recordings, no black box (why did Malaysia hand over to UK?) recordings, no satallite or any other evidence to back up “NR or Russia did it” scenario. So what else can you conclude?
Interestingly today the Australian press are publisinh questions by a German journalist as to why MH17 was allowed to fly in a war zone:
The US used this to get sanctions and milked it for all its worth to demonise Russia and ethnic Russians in Ukraine to justify their involement and destruction.
At first reading the Sputnik article sounds like the truth is coming out … that a non-profit German investigative group called Correctiv had won a partial court victory to get facts from the German foreign office re flight paths over E Ukraine.
…however the full article in the 23 August 2015 Sydney Morning Herald (printed issue) … regarding a briefing by Ukraine officials 14 July 2014 – they explained:
…that the violence had escalated because Russian tanks had intervened…
…as a result there had been a dramatic escalation in air combat. A few hours before the briefing a Ukrainian military plane flying at 6200 metres had been shot down over eastern Ukraine. Only Russian missiles or the Russian air force could be responsible… The separatists would not have had appropriate military equipment.”
So, there it is in a nutshell… a German NGO has proof that Russia did it!
Probably the “key” to that is an “NGO” says it.Those Western stooge NGO’s have become the bane of humanity,and are becoming a ” clear and present danger” in the World.They need to be dealt with before they cause more harm to the World.
I’m reminded of the crime committed by Outlaw Empire forces when they shot down an Iranian airliner flying in its national airspace with its transponder on. Nothing Happened to the guilty party–ZERO–other than the ship’s captain getting awarded a medal for his grisly deed.
Many millions murdered by the Outlaw Empire and zero justice gained for any of the victims. That state-of-affairs MUST end. The place to counterattack is in Syria by defeating its proxies and mopping them up in Iraq. Returning Iraq and Syria to their former positions prior to 1990 ought to be a shared policy goal of Russia, China, and Iran. And at the same time, carving out a viable state for the Kurds would defeat the majority of the Outlaw Empire’s policy goals in the region.
As for MH17, the Outlaw Empire’s ultimately responsible as it’s clear it had the propaganda all fixed and ready as soon as MH17 hit the ground.
What about the statement provided by the Almaz-Antey company, manufacturer of the Buk missile system? They concluded that a Buk missile hit the aircraft.
So, in the Saker’s analysis, it is required to explain away the damage patterns that led Almaz-Antey to their conclusion. These damage patterns cannot have been caused by an air-to-air missile or a Su-25’s on-board canon – that’s at least what Almaz-Antey say. To me, the Almaz-Antey assessment appears plausible as far too many small holes can be seen on pictures of MH17 wreckage. Neither does a Su-25 carry that many bullets, I presume, nor do these bullets make such small holes.
On the other hand, we do see somewhat bigger holes on pictures of wreckage stemming from the cockpit area.
The German former Airbus pilot Peter Haisenko published an analysis focusing on the front section damage patterns. He concluded that they were caused by Su-25 canon bullets. A Su-25 fires a mixture of armor piercing and explosive bullets. According to Haisenko, the explosive bullets could have caused the breakup of the aircraft since they induced a pressure spike inside the aircraft’s hull.
So, do we have to entertain the possibility that MH-17 was hit by an air-to-air missile, bullets fired from the on-board canon of one or two Su-25s, AND a Buk missile?
The scenario would work out as follows: MH-17 was hit by an air-to-air missile, which disabled one of the engines. Whatever the Ukronazi plan was, the crew stayed alive and initiated emergency procedures including a U-turn. The Ukronazies, either in panic or according to their plan, then had to finish off the airplane. They may have fired the Buk missile first or they may have ordered the pilot(s) to use their on-board canon, whatever. The aircraft, now traveling from east to west, then broke up in the air. We know, too, that the cockpit was severed from the rest of the airplane. If that was the initial brake up, as suggested by Haisenko’s analysis, then everything behind the cockpit suddenly became severely tail heavy and, thus, went into an upward-pointing orientation. The ensuing stresses broke off the tail section, which traveled a little bit farther than the middle section, as the middle section with the wings attached experienced the strongest slow down. All of that taken together led to the debris field as we know it, from east to west: middle section, assorted parts of the tail section, cockpit.
The problem with this theory is that no credible witnesses have come forward testifying to the appearance of a vapor trail emitted by the Buk missile. On the other hand, all the hard evidence is taken into account. Witnesses, on the other hand, provide soft evidence that can always be influenced after the fact. The Ukronazis may have silenced all witnesses within their reach and the Novorussians, not really knowing what had happened, may have silenced witnesses initially and stuck to this line ever since.
“The purpose of today’s conference is to prove our non-involvement in the MH-17 tragedy,” Almaz-Antey said to reporters.”
Almaz-Antey unveils new evidence regarding MH17’s downing (ENGLISH FULL VERSION)
A BUK missile solid rocket propellant smoke trail would stay in its entire length for 10 to 20 minutes. It would be present near the impact on MH17 and visible theoretically for over 100 miles at FL320.
The broken cloud would conceal some trail but not all of it. Rural people over at least 100sq miles would hear the launch. None did. The two kinds of BUK shrapnel are too large for the damage shown and are of the wrong shape. The BUK explodes above the target so there would be major damage on the upper fuselage and cockpit area which is not the case. Unless somehow the huge BUK missile was somehow air launched and contained different shrapnel and guidance it was not a BUK
It is not clear why the BUK manufacturer would reportedly claim it was theirs -other than sales, money/ an offer that could not be refused.
The forensic evidence would confirm what happened. Where is it? Where’s the evidence against an Israeli Pytthon or even a discussion?
The Israeli missile theory has several strengths but also weaknesses:
1) If such a missile exploded near the cockpit, how was the crew still able to carry out a U-turn? The crew should have been incapacitated immediately, right? I am here assuming that the U-turn actually took place, of course.
2) Does such a missile create sufficient damage for the airplane to break up? Here we have to keep in mind that most of the shrapnel cloud did not hit the airplane. And the shrapnel that did just punched a great many of small holes into the hull panels in the first place.
Speculation here but the missile exploded to the right of the cockpit as it travelled towards it -the LHS of MH17 looking from the rear of it.
It is likely that some of the shrapnel entered the No. 1 engine -LHS. With that engne out MH17 would enter a left turn. With the flight computers destroyed/damaged it is also anyone’s guess what the aircraft would do.
As for the amount of explosive it would depend on position. By the description given the Israeli Python is very sophisticated and able to home in on the weather radar in the nose of the Boeing 777 and trigger at exactly the best position/time.
It took less than a pound of explosive (12 ozs?) to disintegrate the Boeing 747 over Lockerbie – the pressurisation of the plane creates the damage.
See diagrams in link below:
Someone with aviation expertise should be able to tell whether an un-piloted aircraft with one engine out could ever go through a complete U-turn. Remember that an aircraft normally has to bank into the turn – so as to generate a sideways force that will effect the turn. My speculation here, but if the left engine is out and the aircraft does not bank, then it will yaw strongly to the left, _then_ start to bank and roll over absent any rudder or elevator input. Then it will fall straight to the ground, probably breaking up in the process. The debris field would then look different from what we have seen.
Might it be possible that one or both crew were not incapacitated by the initial hit and carried out the turn?
And we still have the several centimeters wide circular holes from the hull panel right behind and below the pilot’s side window. These holes were the ones that led Heisenko to his conclusion.
So, we would be left with a Python missile exploding right next to the captain. The co-pilot probably survived, carried out the U-turn, and brought the aircraft down from its cruising altitude. That brought the aircraft within range of the Su-25’s canon. The Su-25 pilot then fired his canon to finish off the aircraft, causing the breakup and the debris field as we have seen it.
I read the manufacturer’s analysis of the possible BUK missile attack. It has been some weeks ago, but I seem to remember that they said that the likely launch point was pretty far behind the jetliner. Quite a few miles behind. That may explain why no one actually at the crash site heard or saw a BUK launch.
Is it really credible that people on the Ukrainian side of the line would not come forward and spill the truth that they had seen a BUK launch from the Ukrainian side of the line???
Whatever would they have to fear??
no matter at all if by a buk or by a SU25 cannons.
A buk would have been seen by hundreds of residents if not thousands!
a cannon causes lots of holes that everybody seen in the bottom cabin area of the airliner.
But the point is that BOTH will for sure been originaged direct from the Ucrainians – and that is absolutely WHY
the Us electronic gossipers… did not show nothing factual to the world blaming the russians. I mean: nothing but words. Words came just one hour after the crash.
Speaking of explosions:
US base in Japan goes boom!
Could this be the space weapon gone awry? (Rod of God or whatever)
Could this be North Korean sappers?
Could this be a false flag?
Could this be Malaysia getting revenge?
Or is this Putin’s fault? He and Japan are having a row. Maybe he did this? You know how evil he is.
So many conspiratorial thoughts.
I’ll have to wait until some one produces an article, a video, before and after Google images, photoshopped evidence, suspicious audio tapes, statements from Strelkov, Twitter traffic, and eight or ten pages of profundity from Anonymous and Blue.
Meanwhile . . .
Could this be a snafu by some ammo humpers in ordnance, dropping something which should not be dropped or failing to perform proper maintenance?
Just last March there was an incident at Picatinny
Dangerous Depots: The Growing Humanitarian Problem Posed by Aging and Poorly Maintained Munitions Storage Sites
Bureau of Political-Military Affairs
January 23, 2012
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded. The blast killed 13 people and injured 61 others.
Yes, could be, if there was only one explosion, but already three in a few days, besides consecutively, in the same geographic zone, after a yuan devaluation which provoked heavy loses in “the West market”, is way too much, at least for my not so expert in military issues nor in intelligence analysis amateur brain.
I doubt yuan tiny depreciation has anything to do with this. A more like likely theory would be the recent two gigantic blasts in china is due to USA taking revenge for OPM hack. And now china responded with this blast in japan
I’ve been listening to the Almaz-Antey press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsohFzbJ-vs
I hour 5 minutes in is the meat: ‘If it was shot down by a SAM (BUK — the stuff they produce) then it must have been a BUK M-1 SA-11’ — which has been out of production since 1999, so it’s not their fault and the sanctions against them is unfair. And they do not refute any other versions of how it was shot down (e.g., something other than BUK). Also, Ukraine has over 900 of those missiles, and may be using them despite their being beyond the end of life cycle.
THey did not conclude it was hit by a BUK — only that if it was it was an old one and it wasn’t their fault — so they should not be sanctioned.
I am not an expert. Am I mistaken when I say the preliminary report says the pilots never had time to send a mayday message? The black boxes stopped recording and that indicates a major attack, not an attack on one engine. The attack was not recorded. This is as best as I remember it. It can be argued the preliminary report is faulty, of course.
Pilots in three airplanes survived Buk attacks longer. That possibly points to an air-to-air missile of some sort. A weapon more powerful than a Buk.
You are mistaken since none of the information contained on the black box recorders was released. Indeed, the West has released NO additional evidence to prove its claim. As with Iraq, the Outlaw Empire spewed its Big Lie then shut-up.
Maybe explosives on board, too. Like in the Twin Towers.
It’s called planned detonation by external means. I just made that up.
Explains everything that happened to the plane. Breakup, no pilot communication, cadavers, dead parrots.
Just enough damage internally to send the plane down in big pieces.
Don’t forget that for many days the Ukies tried to shell the crash site to destroy the evidence. They never could get close to the wreck sites but they fired artillery as best they could. Hit the Donetsk train station keeping the investigators away for many days.
So, there it is. Lots of circumstantial evidence pointing only to one source, the culprits.
Satellite imagery withheld
Ground radar from Buk system
30 calibre holes
Stone walling international oversight
Also, the immediate accusation that Russia had supplied Buks is forgotten. The story always was to implicate Russia. It was laughable to think the militia could have operated a Buk at that time.
Is it possible that Ukraine did it but it was an accident? Heard some documentary about a witness who said the pilot returned to base and was very upset and said “it was the wrong plane”. I find it hard to believe that either side would want to do it on purpose.
That is the See Putin Get Putin possibility. That is only credible if it is an entirely amateurish Ukrainian effort.
Not impossible – the two planes bear a striking resemblance. It surely stretches credibility for any Ukrainian to seriously believe Putin would fly his jet back from Brazil straight over Ukraine though!!! That would be the height of arrogance, ignorance and genuine madness all rolled up in one!!
I think you refer to Capt. Voloshyn returning to the airfield without his air to air ordinances, visibly upset saying “it was at the wrong place at the wrong time.”
This could be interpreted in at least three ways:
1. He was accidentally involved in the downing of MH17, for instance confusing it with another target, and that he felt guilty for it.
2. He witnessed an ill-aimed ground-to-air missile or anything else downing MH17 and was upset, because he felt with the innocent victims.
3. He was ordered to shoot down the plane, but had difficulties in doing so because MH17 was not where he was told to head for. Hence, he would have been upset because he had to improvise.
Whatever happened, there should be enough hard evidence to establish with certitude what downed MH17 and, if several weapons were used, in which order. Once that is known, I bet the number of suspects will become very limited.
I saw a German mainstream propaganda documentary where admittedly they seemed to have interviewed that Captain Voloshin. He said there that he did not fly that day, and his comments were made on a different occasion a couple days (before or after?). I think is was on “ARD”: “Die Story im Ersten: Todesflug MH 17”. It seems he had said that before:
He seemed credible to me, but then again, if he shot she plane in cold blood, he must be a psychopath and could and would lie better than a normal guy’s lie-detector would recognize. Either that or it was simply another pilot. The rest of the documentary was just a collection of bullshit without evidence, not worth mentioning, just interesting because of the way they try to brainwash people.
I don’t know whether that info is helpful, but I think every peace of the puzzle is worth mentioning, even if it does not seem to fit in the picture at first sight.
@Saker: you are doing an incredibly good job, thanks a lot
“The Ukrainian did it and the West will never admit it”.
There is another dimension to consider here. Ukraine is now a country under the occupation of the US with the fascist junta in Kiev wholly dependent on America for its very existence. I find it highly unlikely that the Kiev junta would have dreamt up such a plan and then executed it without the prior knowledge and approval of the Americans. Kiev is not an independent actor here and this false flag is a classic operation straight from the CIA handbook.
Evil swine that’s what they are, pathologically evil and hanging is too good for them. The emperor Barack must have known exactly who was responsible for this crime against humanity and yet gets up on the world stage and accuses the Novorussians and then Russia itself for the crime (which was actually the whole point of the atrocity in the first place), does that not make this uncle tom an accessory after the fact ?
If the Ukies had done it unsupervised, they would have shot down their own planes.
What skills do they have besides murder, rape, torture and thievery? They are a cluster of crony corrupt officials, ignoramuses and Banderites. They probably believed that the plane was Putin’s. The CIA runs the place. Do we think there are not keepers controlling the airport? The SBU is controlled by CIA. The military is controlled. The police. Any bureau, department, ministry of consequence is under total American control.
Take a look at any colony of the US in war time. El Salvador, S.Vietnam, S.Korea (just the last 24 hours, closely in tow to US military), Iraq, Afghanistan. The government that exists is under total operational control to US ambassador, Station Chief and Military Attaches/advisers or commanders in country. The control mechanism is obvious: $$$ and fear.
“If the Ukies had done it unsupervised, they would have shot down their own planes”.
Haha ! Yeah you probably right there, not the sharpest tools in the box are they ?
@ know the truth,
Q; I find it highly unlikely that the Kiev junta would have dreamt up such a plan…
R; My first question was, “Qui bono?”
My subsequent answer, “Not the Ukraine, not the Donbass and most certainly not Russia.”
The Apartheid State’s murder spree off the radar and the Dutch on the Sanction Train to Moscow; in short, kill a whole flock of birds with one
while the israeli possibility is viable as well, i think your version is more plausible. some say it is not possible mainly because the pilots would have sent a mayday out. there may indeed have been a mayday that is still a secret recording. or the radio equipment may have been shut off or altered by remote control, as entire jets can be flown remotely these days. further, one of the pilots may- though highly unlikely- have been in on it and prevented radio use. has anyone investigated the pilots?
From all previous accidents (MH 370, for example) Malaysian pilots are mutes.
Very helpful when covering up what the truth is.
Saker thank you for publish this analysis, very informative and crystal clear, even for non-versed in military matters as me.
This is why I miss so much more analysis from you, because always I have understood all you was saying so well, regardless of the topic.
I have read long discussions in other old threads about this issue, so technical and cofussimg, that I got bored and leave them as impossible to me to get something clear
Yeah, Saker. We miss your analysis. We know you’re busy, but …
“Finally, the cockpit of the SU-25 is not pressurized which means that the pilot cannot fly over 7’000 meter in altitude.”
That’s funny. This plane cannot exceed a certain altitude because the pilot is exposed to a lack of oxygen up there? Well, supply the pilot with an oxygen mask. I’m sure the plane wouldn’t mind.
RT made a document proving that SU-25 can be operational above 8000 km.
Reflections on MH17 (RT Documentary)
> What nobody saw that day was the kind of large and highly
visible smoke plume which would have accompanied any large
missile launch, not did anybody hear anything special.
Means nothing. “Smoke plume” (fuel and oxidizer burning) are
significant 1st 50-100-150m, phase in which engines are ignited
and the trust enables the rocket to lift off from the launch pad
unbalancing the forces.
E.g., “a basic solid-fuel based on ammonium perchlorate, aluminum
powder, and a rubber binder (such as used in the Space shuttle
solid fuel boosters) produces mostly hydrochloric acid and water
with aluminum oxide, all which CONDENSE and form plumes of
Those are contrails (CONDENSATION trails) essentially hence,
which depend on the weather (pressure, temperature, humidity,
Now, I invite you to watch:
Aspide: Italian medium range AAM and SAM
Where the Aspide SAM is comparable to a Buk msl (half of the
payload). Notice how 1) the Aspidi sometimes leave contrails, and
sometimes they DON’T; 2) the plumes dissolve FAST: O( s ) [see
At 0:30/0:58, an Aspide reaches perhaps 100m of height when the
contrail is no longer visible. Ditto with another one at 0:36.
Next, curvature of the earth. Were you at the sea watching the
horizon, everything below 50m would be invisible for you ANYWAY
starting from 30km on because of the curvature; below 150m from
c.ca 50km on, and 300m [=height of the tour Eiffel] from 65km.
(Let’s recall that the crash area is basically flat at large.)
Time now to watch another video:
‘Bodies all over’: New MH17 crash site footage minutes after
Boeing downing (VIDEO)
The bodies are of lesser interest for us; incidentally, the video
shows something far more IMPORTANT: the horizon situation at the
Seen? Good luck at discovering msl contrails if any [see Aspide
above] with such a cloudy background, and, of course, provided
you had the *inspiration* to begin seeking the horizon 360
degrees; OTOH no witnesses seem to be mentioning to have observed
any Boeing 777’s contrails, which is remarkable (detecting an
acft even of the size of a 777 flying at 10km altitude during
daylight is virtually impossible if there aren’t contrails).
Now: sound travels at c.ca 340m/s; that’s 30s to go through 10km.
So half a minute as a minimum is the time that had to elapse
before you might have begun to fancy on what was going on above
in the sky. Don’t forget that a Buk msl burns its fuel in 15s.
Re-watch the Aspide video, carefully study how the plumes
dissolve QUICKLY at the launch site.
** On anybody not hear anything special
That’s easy. (Similar elaboration.) Besides that would be
compatible with the one-two military jets: masking the noise, and
acting as a synchronized distraction/attracting the regards in a
To be continued.
Almaz-Antey unveils new evid regarding MH17’s downing
Muaci, maybe you should avoid videos of Italian missiles since they are an irelevant distraction here and instead look at a BUK launch itself. I think you will find that the smoke trail is long and persistent e.g. at 1:00 minute in this one of the BUK M2:
and this one at 1:27 and 1:56 of a BUK M1:
I think you will have to agree that the trail is a tad longer than the 150 meters that you insist is all that is visible.
Yes, I can see aircraft at FL320, contrail or not, assuming clouds are not 10/10 (video shows about 4/10) as part of my training is to look for aircraft. Anybody can see one at that height if the sun reflects off it. Regardless of whether alto Cu or cirrus obscures MH17 at FL320 there’s likely 20,000 feet of clear sky between the lower Cu to see a BUK trail. Then there’s the noise – you can hear a jet at 32,000′ so you could certainly hear a BUK.
I imagine there’s some kind of bang too as it breaks through the sound barrier.
** “Italian missiles”
[T]he Aspide (Italian name of Vipera aspis) name is an Italian
medium range air-to-air and surface-to-air missile produced by
Selenia (now part of the Alenia consortium). It is provided with
semi-active radar homing seeker. It is VERY SIMILAR to the
AMERICAN AIM-7 Sparrow, using the SAME AIRFRAME, but at the
moment of its introduction, the Aspide was provided with
monopulse guide instead of the conic scan, which made it more
resistant to ECM and more precise.
[A]lenia Aeronautica was an Italian aerospace company. Its
subsidiaries included Alenia Aermacchi and Alenia Aeronavali.
Alenia Aeronautica owns ATR, a joint venture with EADS [Airbus
Group]. In January 2012, the company was reorganized as Alenia
** “I think you will have to agree that”
Enough BS. Watch
Almaz-Antey unveils new evid regarding MH17’s downing
And please do your homework (the Internet is your friend) on
contrails—on what their dependencies are (also mentioned at
1:09:10+ above). Last but not least, understand that your
selection of videos can’t offset the counterexamples I have
** “as part of my training is to look for aircraft”
Then you should know better.
Your reply is condescending and insulting and lacking in relevant facts; shouting in CAPS and using words like ‘BS’ is unhelpful in promoting informative discussion.
Dictionary definition of ‘contrail’: “A visible trail of streaks of condensed water vapor or ice crystals sometimes forming in the wake of an aircraft”.
A jet engine uses oxygen from the air to burn liquid Kerosene, a major by-product of that being water vapour that forms ice-crystal contrails at freezing temperatures at altitude.
A solid rocket missile such as the BUK does not use atmospheric oxygen for combustion as the oxidant is within the solid fuel. Smoke particles are a major product of BUK solid propellant.
Apples and oranges then -and no matter how you try to distract with information about Italian missiles the undeniable proof of a solid rocket BUK smoke trail is in the actual footage of those BUK launches showing the enduring smoke trail -end of discussion.
I agree that this is one of the most likely versions, but some questions I still have:
Why have the Russian traffic controllers no recordings of a Mayday from MH-17? Why do russian state media (RT, Sputnik) present so many differnet versions from other Russian media, including BUK from Ukrainian-held territory, SU-27 firing etc. etc. ?
What about a version, with both sides making crimes/mistakes:
Ukraine SU-27 engages ground targets ore MH-17 – rebels take down two Su-27 on that day (ref. youtube)
Did the rebels hit MH-17 mistakenly with a Strela missile after MH-17 went lower b/c of whatever?
One thing I am sure about – the Russians did not give BUK to the rebels, they are not that crazy! If they have them, they are captured from Ukrainian forces or stores.
The facts of that day are not certain.
The rebels downed maybe one plane, SU 25. We don’t even have solid proof of that.
We don’t know for certain the cloud conditions, the volume of artillery fired in the vicinity, Buk sounds heard or not heard, plumes, contrails, movement of militia units, et al.
We know day 2 and thereon. Fairly good photography from many sources of the wreckage. Good security by the militia from then on.
We know the OSCE and Investigators were bullsh*t agents not there for the truth.
There was good press from Russia there. They did good interviews.
Technical investigation is bogus, lame, corrupt, malicious and generally criminal.
They left bodies behind, pieces of bodies still being located.
They left most of the plane for months and months. Never had any intention of rebuilding it like FBI and US authorities would.
Thereafter we have attempts to prove a theory by many different people.
Some new “facts” from Russia have entered the mixmaster bowl of “facts”.
I think it is all dubious to say some specific event occurred because this or that group of facts add up neatly to this theory or that theory.
We know for certain that the US and Ukies would have brought down an airliner. Hell, they would bring one down every month if it would help their cause.
We know the other nations involved in the “investigations” are whores to the US. Vassal doesn’t quite described their prostitution.
Until the war is ended and the criminality of everything done by Porky, the junta, the US and the EU/NATO is documented, this is small potatoes. Less than 300 people. That’s a few weeks in Donbass.
But the way of the world is, the guilty will live a long and rich life.
You can bet that the layers beneath the decision makers has already been thinned out. Dead men tell no tales.
If the Russians really do have solid, court solid, proof, then maybe justice will be served.
Otherwise, forget this whole thing. It’s as over as all the beautiful people snuffed by bombs and shrapnel, land mines and bullets in the war. Just add the passengers and crew to the body count and pray for their families in memory of the horror of MH-17 and war of resistance in Donbass.
I do believe Russians got all evidence of crime and World will see them soon as current junta will run from Kiev. All evidence now will subject even worse propaganda against Mr.Putin/Russians as we ever seen. BHO probably seen evidence…..
I meant SU-25, my mistake.
> The first thing we know is that the Ukrainian traffic air
> controllers directed MH-17 to fly directly over the combat zone
> and to lower its altitude.
Not so fast. It’s **MUCH** worse. MH17, after it had been
directed over the zone **PLAUSIBLY DENIABLE** style (direct
route), had to lower its current flight level precisely BECAUSE
it was unable to raise it AND there was traffic in the area;
something that implies FOREKNOWLEDGE (acft load, etc./data from
the airport to let us understand) additionally, and SOPHISTICATED
PLANNING in order to carry out the false flag.
I suggest as a title of comparison to study IN DEPTH the Giuliana
Sgrena/Nicola Calipari case, something you can OTOH seriously do
only if you can read Italian, everything published in other
languages on the topic being worthless and simple watering down.
Those who suspect the following series of accidents is not accidental are paranoid conspiracy spammers and should be contained.
April 7, 2015
Chemical plant blast in China (second in 2 years)
July 16, 2015
Petrochemical plant blast in China
August 12, 2015
Massive blast in Tianjin, China
Chemical plant blast in China
Explosions at US military base in Japan
Q; Those who suspect the following series of accidents is not accidental are paranoid conspiracy spammers and should be contained.
R; Why not shoot me [and fellow ‘heretics’] on the spot, to be sure I/we’ll never raise my/our voice/s to ask questions ever again?
Btw, plural can’t be singular, but you know that, don’t you?
Daniel I think asnónimo was being sarcastic.
Q; Daniel I think asnónimo was being sarcastic.
R; Only assnomino knows what s/he [really] meant. My money is ‘on purpose‘ – Link to Stanford.
Asnónimo confirms that he was indeed being sarcastic. He assumed this would be quite obvious, and is now saddened to realize that literalists exist ammong us who have a severely disfunctional sarcasm detector. There must be a cultural gap here somewhere. Asnónimo wishes to offer perfunctory apologies for the sake of politeness.
Q; …to realize that literalists exist ammong us who have a severely disfunctional sarcasm detector.
R; Not being judgmental at all, are you?
I already have a judge and he lives in my name, but yeah, I grew up to be the only heretic in the family…
The horse is dead, it doesn’t need to be beaten further. Everyone, let’s just let it go, OK. Thanks. Mod ME
As a person who has studied China for fourteen years, I can assure you that accidents happen all the time, and petrochemical plants, oil and gas pipelines are usually the sites. In any quarter of the country, for all sorts of reasons. Simple wear and tear, complete disregard for caution, mechanical, electrical, smoking in places that no sane person would smoke, greed, callousness, stupidity, disobedience to procedures, faulty construction, faulty repair, inferior quality parts, indifference.
China was completely backward when in the late seventies they built upon a third rate infrastructure.
In many places, they built some new versions of old plants. In other places, they built from the ground up and those places generally have not suffered. China grew enormously fast and they had little time for anything but output.
Now, the people are very aware about the petrochemical dangers and other chemical plant damages to environment. They protest all new construction. Generally, in the recent years they win those protests. However, the old stuff still works and still produce. Until their is an accident.
It was that way in Harbin went poisons went into the water supply, in Dalian when the harbor was polluted from spills, in Qingdao from oil pipeline that was old, and in Tianjin and so with accidents a product of decades of too fast, too old, greed, negligence and the drumbeat to get rich.
This will continue for many more years. The guilty will go to prison. The responsible will be demoted or sent to prison. The victims will get money. China had too much too soon, got wealthy and has problems to solve.
The good part of all this is China has enough wealth to take on the Hegemon all over the globe in a battle of investment, banking and infrastructure development.
So, we all benefit while some Chinese suffer from the problems of spectacular growth.
400 million people are out of poverty. That is worth the problems.
1.3 billion people have food, shelter and a great nation to be proud of.
The people in Tianjin will get justice. By the way, notice there is great pride in how the people reacted and how the local government acted and then took total responsibility.
The culprits in Tianjin are know, in custody and will be severely punished.
Compare that to the toxic flooding of the Colorado river by the US EPA. And notice that there will never be a single criminal prosecution of anyone.
But everyone thinks accidents in China are sabotage by US?
The US is too busy destroying the US.
Could an accident be sabotage?
In China, I am certain local events may be engineered by a criminal mind.
It might even be in the CIA or MI6 playbook to use a very big accident with poor government response to agitate a revolt.
But the government is very aware and the responses to all these are enormous government responses with the top officials arriving on scene quickly to calm and assure the people.
The Central Government does not mickey mouse around when an event, accident, mudslide, earthquake, typhoon, coal mine cave-in or whatever occurs. Tens of thousands of PAP, PLA, emergency services and relief are dispatched.
The Chinese self-organize in emergencies. Often, this is a calming social effect. The top tier cities are sophisticated, educated, and don’t panic.
If you might notice, the Chinese people are not talking about any sabotage or mystery attack. They know this was greed and violation of local zoning and safety laws.
The government is buying out the owners of the nearby apartments.
It’s China. Stuff happens.
Q; But the government is very aware and the responses to all these are enormous government responses with the top officials arriving on scene quickly to calm and assure the people.
R; And that, oddly enough, makes China more democratic then, say, uncle Sam, where the carpet is vast and deep. Cigarettes anyone?
That aside, I concur with your rational explanation. I can understand people are freaking out, but I’m more concerned about what’s going to happen in and around the Donbass in the upcoming weeks…, becasue one thing is for sure, whatever happens, it will be on purpose.
I feel reassured after reading your post, my youngest sons girlfriend is currently on a month long internship in Shanghai and Beijing and i’ve been on edge since the explosion in Tianjin. I look forward to your informed and authoratitive posts on events, you are more than up to speed on current realities.
‘Lang may yer lumb reek’ Larchmonter.
BUK Manufacturer Almaz-Antey Speaks Out on MH17 Tragedy
[T]he theory that one of the BUK missile launchers controlled by
the Ukrainian military and shown by the Russian satellite imagery
shot down MH17 has now received strong public endorsement as a
result of a presentation made today (2nd June 2015) by the BUK
missile system’s manufacturer Almaz-Antey.
The Almaz-Antey presentation confirms MH17 was shot down by a BUK
missile, burying once and for all the SU 25 theory, about which
regular readers of Russia Insider will know I have always been
“The Almaz-Antey presentation confirms MH17 was shot down by a BUK
missile, burying once and for all the SU 25 theory, about which”
but that’s not what Almaz-Antey said, as I established at http://thesaker.is/mh-17-one-year-later/comment-page-1/#comment-136334. Mercouris is either garbling this or lying, or RI invented what he said. Pitiful.
> but that’s not what Almaz-Antey said
And which is your *argument*, something comparable to, say:
Lenovo’s Thinkpad (where Almaz-Antey ~ today’s Lenovo) are NOT
Thinkpad because Lenovo acquired the brand line which was
originally developed by IBM back in 2005?
Elaborate please, which “garbling” or “lying”? Detail, precision
matters and the video is 1:31:15. (Thank you BTW for the URL, I
didn’t know that such a VITAL video has been made and is
available for watching.)
“I’ve been listening to the Almaz-Antey press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsohFzbJ-vs
I hour 5 minutes in is the meat: ‘If it was shot down by a SAM (BUK — the stuff they produce) then it must have been a BUK M-1 SA-11′ ”
The video is 1:31:15 long, but at about 1:05:00 and a few minutes beyond is where it is explicitely said IF a SAM hit it then it was the old BUK, but they refused to say it was a BUK but could have been downed by other versions (explanations) — such as a fighter jet shooting an air-to-air missile. cannon, a bomb, or whatever.
The purpose of the conference was to show it was not the company’s fault by excluding the possibility it was done by a modern BUK — something they had shipped recently after the trouble had begun, and therefor no sanctions should be applied to them. Any SA11 M1s in Ukraine were sent there long ago, perfectly legally and properly.
Mercouris saying the company said it was a BUK is not true. They didn’t say that, and explicitly said several times they could not rule out other explanations. The story that was told and retold that the company said it was a BUK is lie. Listening to video proves it’s a lie. Mercouris wrote the story about the presentation without even listening to video of it? Or was it dysinformation?
** “explicitly said IF a SAM hit it then it was the old BUK”
Understand that they CAN’T, legally and as in reasoning
scientifically [vs. snake oil sellers bluffing] state anything
beyond that, with the official investigations still ongoing. The
“IF” is hence required!, they can’t supersede/bypass the
investigation commission which hasn’t released yet its final
** “Mercouris saying the company said it was a BUK is not true.
They didn’t say that, and explicitly said several times they
could not rule out other explanations.”
?! See above. Notice that Almaz-Antey also resists, when
questioned, to explicitly name those that may have launched the
msl—because they are not allowed to, though anyone who isn’t an
idiot may easily answer by himself.
What law says they had to or could not say anything? The same law that stops all other speculation from everyone else who are somehow immune to that law?
Did the company say it was shot down by a BUK? No they didn’t. End of story!
Very helpful reading [14x pp], indeed MH17 ~ 9/11:
Volume 40, March 2015
The Cause of the Destruction Of The World Trade Center Buildings on September
11, 2001 and the Admissibility of Expert Testimony Under the Standards
Developed in Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceutical, Inc.
(Stevan Douglas Looney, J.D.
Under the standards established by the United States Supreme Court in Daubert v.
Merrell Dow Pharmaceutical, Inc., 509 U.S. 579, 113 S. Ct. 2786, 125 L. Ed 2d 469
(1993) and its progeny, expert testimony offered to support the official theory and
hypotheses concerning the cause of the destruction of World Trade Center Buildings 1,
2 and 7 (the WTC) on September 11, 2001 would probably be excluded from admission
into evidence by an impartial judge in a civil or criminal proceeding. In contrast, expert
testimony presenting an alternative theory and hypotheses explaining the cause(s) of
the destruction of the WTC grounded in and adhering to accepted and reliable scientific
principles using the scientific method would satisfy the Daubert test and would be
admitted into evidence.
If a “Daubert hearing” were held to determine the admissibility of expert opinion
evidence regarding the cause or causes of the destruction of the WTC, expert opinion
testimony presenting the official theory would likely not satisfy the Daubert test of
reliability and would be rejected by an impartial judge after a Daubert hearing as
unsupported by science and the laws of physics and, thus, unreliable and inadmissible
into evidence under the Federal Rules of Evidence. In that event, the official theory of
the cause of the destruction of the WTC would not be presented to and considered by
the trier of fact. Conversely, expert opinion testimony and related evidence presenting
an alternative hypothesis explaining the cause(s) of the destruction of the WTC that are
grounded in reliable scientific principles using the scientific method, or “good science”,
would pass the Daubert test and would be admissible into evidence. Consequently, in a
civil or criminal proceeding the ruling or verdict on the question of the cause or causes
of the destruction of the WTC would be based only upon expert testimony and related
evidence presenting an alternative theory or theories.
Cont’d [awaiting moderation, to follow threads difficult: where to reply?]
Netherlands provides no response on alleged Buk missile debris — Lavrov
[R]ussia’s top diplomat noted that the key facts in investigation of Malaysian Boeing crash over Ukraine are still withheld
[O]n August 12, the Dutch Safety Board and the Dutch Prosecutor’s Office published a joint press release, which said that the investigators were scrutinizing the elements, which, they believe, might be related to the Buk anti-aircraft missile system.
[Forgotten to enter name+e-mail]
Cont’d [awaiting moderation, to follow threads difficult: where to reply/threads?]
Netherlands provides no response on alleged Buk missile debris — Lavrov
[R]ussia’s top diplomat noted that the key facts in investigation of Malaysian Boeing crash over Ukraine are still withheld
[O]n August 12, the Dutch Safety Board and the Dutch Prosecutor’s Office published a joint press release, which said that the investigators were scrutinizing the elements, which, they believe, might be related to the Buk anti-aircraft missile system.
Muaci…I’m sorry to be a prude, but there is a policy here about caps…capital letter use…
The policy here at Saker’s is that we don’t use them because they are like shouting…you can read it in the Saker policy column…I think its on the right at the top….
Q; …just as they have done it with KAL007 in 1983. In fact, in the 20 years which separate us from the shooting down of KAL007 US…
R; I have a friend who likes to talk about his 12-year-old daughter, but in fact she’s 23 and that makes him a lot older.
One more week and it will be exactly 32 years since KAL007 was shot out of the sky – Link to transcripts on Wikisource.
“several local witnesses who saw at least one, possibly two, SU-25 aircraft in the air that day”
I have seen several reports where eye witnesses said they saw a military plane. I do not recall a single one of them specifically identifying a Su-25. Did I miss something?
uh, this is in the Ukraine, how many types of fighter jets do you think there are over there ? you think they have F16 or F18 there ?
Well Ukraine inherited a pretty full armament from the USSR, so no F-16s or F-18s but their soviet equivalents, yes. The Su-25 in spite of its appearance is more or less equivalent to the A-10, quite different from a F-16 or F-18.
According to wikipedia the Ukrainian Air Force consists of:
45 Su-27 Air Superiority Fighters
80 Mig-29 Multirole Fighters
25 Su-24 Tactical Bombers
40 Su-25 Close air-support fighters.
A Su-27 or Mig-29 is a far much more logical choice for intercepting a jetliner at 30,000 feet, not sure how many are air worthy, but there are more of them than Su-25s. I am guessing the Su-25 are easier to keep in the air, but still there are supposed to be 125 more suitable (Su-27s or Mig-29s) aircraft available.
> But the R-60 is more than capable to destroy one of the
> Boeing’s engines.
Without the black boxes having recorded nothing?
But, those black boxes were not delivered to the UK where could be well manipulated?
Apparently according to Western sources who currently have the blackbox, there is NOTHING in there that is worth listening to… so, literally NOTHING, ZIPPO to share with outside world !!!
And of course, not a single western MSM is interested in asking for *any* recording whatsoever!
Now, continuing reasoning: Buk msl = INESCAPABLE NATO FALSE FLAG
ADMISSION [imagine the consequences]; while AAM narrative allows
WARDING OFF towards *lone wolf/bad luck [wrong
So it may even be GENUINELY REALISTIC eventually [watch the torus
from the Almaz-Antey video presentation] that “there is NOTHING
in there [black boxes] that is worth listening to,” provided we
are ready to discount that the plausibly deniable [see ‘plausibly
deniability’] *mise en place* of the MH17 diverting from its
original route can’t be analyzed given that the records, ATC ones
inclusive, are OFF LIMITS.
The site discourages the use of gratuitous caps. Please take note of this. No quarrel with your message at all. Mod ME
Remark acknowleged. Please take note of the timestamp (for other replies of mines have been issued previously, and are still waiting to be moderated).
Waiting x moderation… continuing [append to my previous reply]
Imagine furthermore the disarrangement [delays, delays, … oh my!,
oh my!] among the investigators under the Dutch Safety Board’s
*management*. MH17 = false flag turned sour; damage control
increasingly becoming = mission impossible; those investigators
are, strictly speaking, NOT suicide bombers—in the sense that
they might be ready to blindly follow orders till the end, and
swallow suicide (cyanide) capsules [life imprisonment being the
alternative] in case they were caught covering up something of
this scale eventually. Saumon fumé, exquisite wines, escorts and
Sildenafil (Viagra), are not easily available in jail, and then
much less enjoyable in any case.
Though a case might be made,if the investigators were really into the current Western Values.Then Viagra in prison might be right up their alley,so to speak.
The more I read about MH017 the more confusing it gets. According to numerous reports the FDR and CVR are both in western hands. Why don’t we learn anything about their content?
What about the notion, that the downing of the Boeing 777 was a big mistake insofar as the target was presidents Putin’s Il 92, a 4 engine aircraft but from a distance with a somewhat similar appearance. The mistake is insofar incomprehensible because the attack took place in broad daylight and excellent visibility.
It was no “mistake” as you put it, it was cold blooded deliberate murder of innocents by depraved and inhuman psychopaths. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Just reading the comments on Unz Review… gosh what a vile lot of garbage from the usual suspects. Some names I think are banned here.
Saker, I hope you are strong enough to let those personal attacks bounce off.
So many events happening right now,I believe the Empire is pulling out all the stops to destabilize the World. And keep Russia and China unable to concentrate on just one problem at a time.We have the coming attacks in Donbass.The “accidents” in China,and now Japan.The pushing for war in Korea.The Israeli bombing/shelling,possible invasion of Syria.And now last ,but not least I believe,a possible Color Revolution starting in Lebanon.This isn’t being reported on very much yet,RT is reporting it.This is not looking good there.This very well could be the Empire’s latest plot in the Middle East.
Uncle Bob 1…
and another to add to the list….
the Aussie stock market crashed this morning. Panic as investors sell up and flee the market. (Funny how there are always buyers for those sellers!)
“It is all because China’s economy is weak as they have stopped buying the stuff we dig out of the ground”.
“We also know for a fact that there was at least one Ukrainian aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH-17 that day. This was confirmed both by Russian radar signals and by several local witnesses who saw at least one, possibly two, SU-25 aircraft in the air that day. ”
Is a flying SU-25 easily identifiable as such by an ordinary person?
Fighter aircraft are fairly small in size and would appear as just a small dot at an altitude of a few thousand metres.
The witnesses identified it as a fighter, not as an Su-25, in the witness reports I saw, except for one, who was a plane spotter. Su-25s look like fighters and most people don’t know one combat aircraft from another. The Su-25 reported to be near the airliner was reported as flying low, then climbing up towards the airliner. So yes, people would have no problem identifying the aircraft as a fighter. They would have certainly heard it as it climbed, too, and this they also reported. Mod ME
Thanks for the explanation.
Putin’s Mobile Crematoriums
A while back, there was this “Putin’s mobile crematoriums” story, I never took it seriously, but today I stumbled upon the fact that it is being reported by the mainstream media (CNN, Bloomberg, Business Insider) as being disseminated and being deemed credible by Congress man Mac Thornberry. Not that I give a lot on Congress people’s opinion, they all “knew” about WMDs that weren’t there, but nevertheless: Mobile crematoriums – WTF?
It sounds lunatic beyond belief to “hide” the fact that Russian soldiers are dying by their hundreds and thousands, by creating something specifically for cremating them close to the battlefield. Just the risk that such a car is discovered – which is exactly what is being claimed happened. How would Putin explain away Russian mobile crematoriums on Ukrainian soil?
A cursory Google search didn’t yield any relevant “mobile crematorium hoax” result, except for a short one on RI: http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/bloomberg-peddles-russian-mobile-crematorium-garbage/ri7433
So as this has been reported by people and outlets whom you should expect to not stoop to utter lunacy, and the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsJort1d7mU) proof is long enough and shows the machine in action and an actual person handling it, it could lend itself to debunking.
* Has this been thoroughlt debunked anywhere?
* Do mobile crematoriums exist anywhere for any non-holocaustian purposes?
-> This would explain how such a video could be made without too much of an effort?
-> Or could this be a real crematorium, just loaded onto a truck?
Last summer there more than a few stories of mobile crematoriums being used by the Ukrainians. The “empire” almost always blames the other side for what they have been doing. Mod ME
> The “empire” almost always blames the other side for what they have been doing.
So the Ukrainians would do it to cremate their own soldiers and declare them “missing”? So there are no mass graves? But I’d think hundreds or thousands of families with “missing” family members would – still clamoring on some vague hope – cause way more trouble than if declared dead, at the same time burying all hopw.
Or to cremate rebel soldiers (that have torture marks?) to “destroy the evidence”?
I mean the creation a thing as horrible as a mobile crematorium – which implies the cremation is being hidden from the public – would need some strong motive, and it would have to be organized from the top. I mean if a Ukranian Nazi group did it in reverence of the good old times… I’d understand. Otherwise it’s hard for me to see this as anything but a hoax, regardless of which side is claimed to sport a crematorium fleet.
Leaving aside the stupidity of the Western “claims” of Putin sending mobile cremation vans for Russian soldiers in Ukraine (I think that is too silly to give any credence to).The claims that the Ukrainians used them is another story though.They have so many dead,that they want to hide them.That is entirely possible that they would use them.Another point on that though.In Europe cremation is used far more than it is in the US.I’m not sure that that is so usual then in itself.It’s the reasons that they are using them that is the shocking part.The last I heard (I can’t be sure on the figures) the Ukrainians claim between 9-14,000 MIA’s in their forces.The NAF says most of those aren’t really missing,but are dead from the fighting.But the junta is afraid to admit it.Cremating them is an easy why to hide where they are,and what happened to them.
> Leaving aside the stupidity of the Western “claims” of Putin sending mobile cremation vans for Russian soldiers in Ukraine (I think that is too silly to give any credence to).
> The claims that the Ukrainians used them is another story though.They have so many dead
So Putin – by using mobile incinerators – has succeeded in persuading you.
Seriously though, I was trying to approach this without relying on what we (believe to) know about the numbers of casualties on each side, as the crematoriums, if true, would be proof for the deception of one side in that regard
I think you misunderstand my post.I reject totally the idea that Putin sent mobile crematoriums for Russian soldiers in Ukraine.There would be many reasons to reject it.But the easiest one is that if there were so many serving Russian soldiers dying there.There would be a huge outcry in Russia.There are only so many “accidental” deaths that people will acccept without a huge scandal developing.Russia isn’t Ukraine,a country under nazi rule.Nor is she a country at war that expects to lose soldiers.
google mobile incenerator
look at the wikipedia entry and see http://www.todaysurematthews.com/self-contained-mobile-incinerators/ for one which looks like the video (made in UK)
MediBurn Medical Waste Incinerator
for general information.
Instructive – and creepy! Thanks
Ukraine acquired these mobile crematoriums in preparation for the Euro-2012 football extravaganza to eliminate street cats and dogs that were apparently very abundant. Any search with terms like dogs, crematoriums, Ukraine will lead you to plenty of these reports 3-4 years ago, because animal right groups were denouncing the practice.
Apparently, those mobile crematoriums for dogs were then put to use again to deal with the accumulation of bodies in the front during the most catastrophic phase of the war, and there were even some pictures of them in various places. But the practice must have been discontinued because it was obviously very very bad press to be treating your own dead soldiers like street dogs.
Somebody, probably among the western media planners of this abominable neo-colonial experiment, must have realized the value of the idea to flesh out the notion of invading Russian troops being sent to their death, troops that could not be located, dead or alive, because they had simply been… cremated!! There you have it. Clever.
I did repost a link some days ago….western troops etc under AFU are given the identities……..of killed AFU
Forgot to mention, that the inimitable Lyashko gave a passionate speech last year accusing Poroshenko of burning ukrainian soldiers just like dogs.
0:00(Oleg Lyashko accused) the Minister of Defense of crimes against his own soldiers
0:03Lyashko posted a satellite photo of the field crematorium where according to his information were secretly cremated
0:09several thousand bodies of dead Ukrainian soldiers.
0:15Poroshenko and Geletey are blatantly lying. They’re hiding more than eight thousand of our losses in the ATO!
0:19These guys gave their lives for them… But they received neither thanks nor respect
0:23It turns out that Poroshenko is burning our heroes like dogs in German crematoriums!
0:28I came across a satellite reconnaissance photograph where the Field Crematorium can clearly be seen
0:33next to a military hospital in the ATO zone in NovoAidar.
0:36As I was told, Germany gave us this crematorium. Why?
re: Israeli involvement: In then Russo- Georgian conflict 2 MIGs were shot down by a Georgian air command that had just been trained by an Israeli unit specializing in computer/missile/ground control etc. so the Israelis legitimately have their hands in the pot ( not need for secret ops–they are up front about it). Brazen you might say.
Excellent report. I recommend reading this article, as well.
Israeli-made air-to-air missile may have downed MH17 – report
It may have been Su-25’s equipped with Israeli Python A-A missiles. Apparently some of these Ukrainian aircraft were modified to use those missiles, and the missiles themselves look similar to R-60 A-A missiles.
Also, an R-60 doesn’t have to physically destroy the airliner. One of these exploding next to the cockpit, killing the pilots, and probably damaging the electronics in the cockpit controlling the aircraft, would cause the plane to fly in such a way it would start breaking up. These aircraft are only stressed for low “g” flight and not stressed to sustain any kind of battle damage.
@ BOT TAK,
Q; These aircraft are only stressed for low “g” flight and not stressed to sustain any kind of battle damage.
R; I think the only plane designed to withstand severe damage is the A-10 [Warthog]
Although passenger planes are not designed to be used as military planes, they’re still exposed to volatile weather and rapid changes in temperatures [see, f.e. @ an Aloha Flight on a Boeing 737].
This is what you’d normally hear on a CVR. Note, at the beginning of the recording, you can hear a loud bang. Although that’s the sound of the tail snapping off, it’s clearly recorded by the CVR, at the other side of the plane, a Boeing 747-400 [the distance is 225′ or 68,8 meters]
So, all this pussyfooting with the MH17’s CVR and the fact that after one year, nothing recorded on it has reached the outside world, paints a very bleak picture.
I guess the captain yelling, “We’re under attack!” with the sound of bullets whizzing by in the background is a bit hard to sell as “The
shepherdsseparatist shot it down with a duckBUK.”
No matter what or how, almost 300 innocent people died and I think we owe it to them to never stop digging for the truth to be unearthed… or whatever is left of it.
Mayasian MH17: Its good that you established a plausible scenario established as the first of many that will be brandied about very soon. How about a time line? From one event to another would the pilots have time at least to say , “Damn, what was that?” possibly? A shock wave can kill instantly, can it not?
Incredible, another huge fire near tokyo airport, are these explosions n fires all just coincidences? Its like getting stuck by lightning over n over !
Great article as usual. I would just like to point out that just as the USA must have detailed radar images of the skys over Ukraine when MH17 went down Likewise they must have data on the Indian ocean three months earlier when MH 370 went down. they cant have Diego Garcia loaded up with nuclear missiles without having complete coverage of the waters of the whole Indian ocean. If they don’t then we can only imagine that the Russians can take it out without warning any time.
I think we can all rest easier knowing the high “level” of officials the “New” Ukraine has put into office since the coup.A perfect example is this “stalwart”,the new police chief in Lvov:
Every time I see the drawing at the top of this article, which was apparently produced by the Ruaaian military, I just shake my head. Surely even the most bungling amateur knows that a Boeing 777 is a wide bodied jet with TWO engines, while the drawing shows what looks like a Douglas DC 8 from the 1960’s with a slim body and FOUR engines!
I honestly do not understand why this has not been cleared away, it is clear to everyone that Russia did not do it, so that leaves only the USA. there is no AL CAIDAH or ISIL there is only the worlds largest terrorist network of AMERICA,BRITAIN and ISRAEL and it is called ABI.
I want to point out that Malaysia lost three planes in a short period of time. MH370, MH17 and a plane from Asia Airlines (if I got the name right). Malaysia owned a part of the company. Statistically, this is abnormal.
At least two of the planes stopped communicating. Both changed course. One disappeared and all the wreckage of the other has not been collected from the crashsite. According to international rules, the plane should have been reassembled as much as possible, but that was not done.
The preliminary report says nothing about witness accounts. Witnesses are usually heard in court and in Donbass there are many. They saw one or more fighters in the area.
It has been said commercial airplanes were forbidden to fly over the area 8 July 2014. Why was that changed?
I dont know what happened, but I want to know.
Some interesting links:
The preliminary report in English.
The rules of ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, are explained.
Boeing-777 was downed by Ukrainian MiG-29, Romanian expert says.
For those who do not believe Carlos exists. He was interviewed on Spanish TV in May 2014.
Interview from 8 may 2014. In Spanish.
Amenazan de muerte a un español en Ucrania por opinar sobre la crisis
OSCE Investigator: Flight MH17 downed by machine-gun fire
In German, but you can translate it.
MH17 – Die ungestellten und die unbeantworteten Fragen
You are chasing your tail.
Might as well re-read the Warren Report and rethink JFK’s assassination according to that book of lies.
Forget it. You’ll know or not know the facts at some point in the future. There is no hope of the truth coming out soon.
Usually, it takes forty years for truth to surface if it’s CIA action at core.
In this case, it will be ten to twenty years before the truth comes out.
Mats, are you saying we should stop trying to make sense of what happened to MH17? That is how I interpret it. If the interpretation is correct, you are also telling Saker to do something else.
Why should I bother studying the Warren report? JFK died many years ago and as far as I am concerned his death was an internal American problem, though of course it affected the whole world somewhat. I think the death of JFK and 911 are for Americans to investigate and I know some have done a good job.
MH17 is different. The tragedy took place in my backyard and it has the potential to make things worse in Europe and Russia already in October if the final report is released. You may not know it, but many in Europe worry about the present tensions and fear the fallout of the Dutch investigation. MH17 is certainly something we have the right to take a look at as best we can. We may not find the truth, but we have the right to look for it.
FYI, finding interesting links is hard work and I provided them for free.
The Capitalist Pigs and Liberal Cult miracle economy (high equity prices on Wall Street) is crashing.
They just discovered that there is no growth in debt creation and war mongering.
They are blaming China, but they know it is the FED and Obama’s destruction of growth.
Hug your nearest tree.
It is the economic equivalent of a stomach virus—severe colitis aftereffects. They have the runs.
However, those algorithms are also picking up bargains in high value stocks.
As small investors panic, the big funds buy cheap.
And the key, a strategy built into the algorithms, is to force the FED to another QE4. That’s how the market goes back up.
Gold. Watch that price rise. They have buried it for several years, but it will rise again.
China and Russia will benefit enormously as gold goes to its true value levels.
This is just looking at the facts that EU and US are in very bad shape, under very evil management.
China will be okay. It had already turned its economy inward for consumption and services and global for infrastructure development (Silk Road Belts).
Dear Saker, yesterday, I listened to this video interview of “V” The Guerrilla Economist by Rogue Money:
“V” discussed the situations in Greece, Ukraine, Syria, Iran/Israel, The House of Saud, Russia, China, Dedollarization, Christophe de Margerie, the IMF, and the Petrodollar. Some of the things (tho, not all) discussed in the interview were eye-openers. I’m now beginning to wonder whether or not the tragic MH-17 has any link to the preservation of the Petrodollar. It seems stupefying to even suspect that, I know. But then again, it is now a known fact that ISIS is a creation of the West. I feel that anything could be possible as long as there is desperation involved. What is your take on this?
*(In my opinion, tho, I don’t believe the Petrodollar will die. Most likely it will be diminished in use.)
I wonder what to make of today stock market collapses.Is it the beginning of the huge crash we’ve been hearing was/is coming.And I’m a bit concerned that it seems to be hitting China the most, so far.Is it maybe something the Empire and their stooges cooked up.Many questions it seems,but no answers yet.
And on a related and important note.I think it is good to remember that the USSR and the “Socialist Bloc”, existed and built societies without a stock market.In the USSR,people had jobs,they had health care,they have meals on the table,children were born and raised,with full education provided (they actually had population increases from births back then,unlike today).They washed clothes (and had clothes to wash),went to movies,watched TV,and listened to radio.Had theater,ballet,concerts.Had subways,trains,cars (not as many as in the West,but quite a few).Built,the second largest economy in the World.And as Martin reminded us,one of the smaller “bloc” countries the DDR,even surpassed many Western countries to become the 9th largest industrial power on Earth.And all of that, and much more as well, while under attack by the West everyday of their existence.And all of that without the “Casino Capitalism” of Western style stock markets.So in case we are in the beginning of this predicted Worldwide “Crash”. That doesn’t have to mean the World will end.Except for the 1%,the World can actually survive and live without a stock market.
Read somewhere that Chinese state/institutional investment in their stock market is around 6%.
Which means those that might lose their shirts are private investors a.k.a gamblers.
But, we knew all this a year ago. Right off the bat, UAV thugs raided the ATC tower in Kiev and confiscated the evidence very shortly following when the MH-17 went down. If UAV and the coup regime were NOT involved, what was the expected reaction? Instead of the well-timed raid on the tower, shock and confusion, at least for a short while after receiving reports of the crash. We didn’t see that, of course- what we saw was the immediate barrage of accusations directed at Mr. Putin. It has the stink of premeditated mass murder for political purposes (terrorism) all over it.
Saker, thank you for the analysis and for keeping a focus on MH17.
The hard evidence held by the empire will remain secret indefinitely. Russia knows this and is growing increasingly impatient with the investigations run by the DSB and JIT.
I am waiting to see what Russia does after the DSB releases the final report. We have a few clues. First we know that as far back as 2/22/14 the Russian Investigative Committee opened an investigation.
The Russian IC investigation has reached the conclusion that the air-to-air missile was not Russian made.
Putin said approx. June 19 that it is necessary to wait for the conclusions of the Dutch Safety Board. He didn’t say why, but I can think of a couple of good reasons. First, to give the DSB plenty of rope with which to hang themselves. Second, to avoid accusations that Russia is making the DSB’s work more difficult.
Russia’s growing impatience with the DSB shows in what they said in July 16th about the draft of the DSB’s final report. Russia clearly is gearing up to slam the DSB’s final report.
The comments by the Russian Foreign Ministry’s official spokesperson Maria Zakharova on Aug. 10 made it clear that Russia regards the DSB investigation as deeply flawed and is determined to pry the lid open. She said, “It was unacceptable to put with such an absolutely politicized approach in line with an aggressive informational campaign on vilification of someone and simultaneously on ‘brushing away’ all substantial facts. We are talking about hundreds of people who died. Their fate should not remain a ‘black hole’. Truth should be found, but it is necessary to do it in line with international law, and that is what we are going to do.”
Lavrov underscored what Maria Zakharova said the next day. He said, “After the investigation is over, it is necessary to make the punishment of the guilty inevitable.”
Russia will not remain on the sidelines of the investigation much longer. The good news is that the empire does not have a lock on all of the hard evidence. I expect evidence to be revealed following the DSB’s final report and again in early 2016 when the JIT makes some kind of public report about their sham criminal investigation.
*We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’*
hxnx birdflu, swineflu,
asia boxing day tsunami,
bali terror bombing,
malaysian airasia airliner disaster,
sabah freak earthquake,
thailand terror hit,
In the night between 31st August-1st September 1983 the four engines Korean B-747 flight KAL KE007 was hit at high altitude by two A-A missiles launched by the Su-15 piloted by Lieut. Col. Gennadi Osipovich. One missile hit one of the engines, the other punctured the tail of the aircraft. The aircraft continued to fly for almost 15 minutes, of which the CVR registered only the first 1 min and 44 seconds. In such period of time there is no words from the cockpit crew that show they were aware having been hit by missiles. Moreover, they were so busy to maintain the aircraft airborne, that in the CVR recorded period of 1 min and 44 seconds there is only one call (after 55 seconds) to the (Tokyo) Air traffic control.
Interesting, also in this case, there is no (the original) tape of the recordings in the (Tokyo) Air traffic control center.
Where are the tapes of the Ukrainian Air traffic control centers? They have recorded not only the radio communications, but also the conversations between the air controllers and of any other person present.
Anyway, even if the B-747 has four and not two engines as the B-777, it appears hard that just hitting one engine there is a sudden crash of a huge aircraft without some further, sudden and strong action against it.
Here the transcript of the CVR 1 min and 44 seconds after the “hit” of the Korean Air Kal KE 007:
1826:02 Cockpit: [Sound of explosion?]
1826:06 Captain: “What’s happened?”
1826:08 Co-pilot: “What?”
1826:10 Captain: “Retard throttles.”
1826:11 Co-Pilot: “Engines normal.”
1826:14 Captain: “Landing gear.”
1826:15 Cockpit: [Sound of cabin altitude warning]
1826:17 Captain: “Landing gear.”
1826:18 Cockpit: [Sound of altitude deviation warning]
1826:21 Cockpit: [Sound of autopilot disconnect warning]
1826:22 Captain: “Altitude is going up. Altitude is going up. Speed brake is coming out.”
1826:26 Co-Pilot: “What? What?”
1826:27 Cockpit: [Unintelligible]
1826:29 Captain: “Check it out.”
1826:33 Captain: “I am not able to drop altitude.”
1826:34 Public Address: “Attention emergency descent”
1826:38 Public Address: “Attention emergency descent”
1826:38 Crew: “Altitude is going up.”
1826:40 Crew: “This is not working. This is not working.”
1826:41 Crew: “Manually.”
1826:42 Crew: “Cannot do manually.”
1826:42 Public Address: “Attention emergency descent”
1826:43 Cockpit: [Sound of the autopilot disconnect warning]
1826:45 Co-Pilot: “Engines are normal sir.”
1826:46 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette. This is an emergency descent.”
1826:48 Cockpit: [Unintelligible]
1826:49 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette. This is an emergency descent.”
1826:50 Captain: “Is it power compression?”
1826:51 Flight Engineer: “Is that right?”
1826:52 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette, this is an emergency descent.”
1826:52 Flight Engineer: “All of both.”
1826:54 Captain: “Is that right?”
1826:55 Public Address: “Put the mask over your nose and mouth and adjust the headband.”
1826:57 Co-Pilot: “Tokyo radio Korean Air 007.”
1827:01 Public Address: “Put the mask over your nose and mouth and adjust the headband.”
1827:09 Flight Engineer: “All compression.”
1827:10 Captain: “Rapid decompression. Descend to one zero thousand.”
1827:15 Public Address: “Attention emergency descent.”
1827:20 Flight Engineer: “Now…we have to set this.”
1827:21 Tokyo radio: “Korean Air 007, radio check on one zero zero four eight.”
1827:23 Public Address: “Attention emergency descent.”
1827:23 Flight Engineer: “Speed.”
1827:26 Flight Engineer: “Stand by. Stand by. Stand by. Stand by. Set.”
1827:27 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette. This is an emergency descent.”
1827:30 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette. This is an emergency descent.”
1827:33 Public Address: “Put out your cigarette this is an emergency descent.”
1827:38 Public Address: “Put the mask over your nose and mouth and adjust the headband.”
1827:43 Public Address: “Put the mask over your nose and mouth and adjust…”
1827:46 End of CVR recording
I read that crack US pilots wearing Ukraine uniforms replaced the Ukrainian pilots in the two SU 25 planes. The manoeuvres to bring the passenger plane down in the ‘dance of death’ choreographed for it to fly before dropping in pieces in an empty field were too complex, difficult and exact, to trust to Ukrainian pilots. Saker does not mention the whole dead bodies dropping though the straw roofs of the small village homes and sheds the plane briefly hovered over.I have seen the videos of the bodies strewn around, horror of the inhabitants no-one believed. Nor does he mention that the plane was carrying dead AIDS victims as well as AIDS infected blood samples in the hold to go the the AIDs meeting I think in Malaysia. Malaysia only just taken over by Mrs Clinton as US Secretary of State after she managed the end of Libya. The new “alli” was proving difficult at the time this flight was chosen to bring down. Subsequently the Malaysian Airlines went bankrupt or something close.
no, no – nothing of the kind.
It was Zacharschenko just pissed off on the phone, who contacted one of his commanders in the area with orders to the Buk battery manned by his guys. The battery sent the signals to the SU-25 on the airliner´s position.
This new tech explananation has one merit: it´s way better than that of the pentagon.
Total CEO Plane Crash Robs Putin’s Russia of Outspoken Oil Ally
i now believe the globalists are satanists who revel in sending us msg hidden in plain sight. looks like all those seemingly coincidental numerical patterns do have a *story* to tell ! 
Air Algerie Flight 5017
A witness reported seeing a ball of flame in the crash area at about 1.50am, suggesting the tragedy happened in minutes.
One witness said it was “as if a bomb had fallen” on the desert, and that the plane had hit the ground at a steep angle and at full speed, ruling out any attempt at an emergency landing
we have the pending performance on a France/Russia deal whereby Russia is to receive delivery of two Mistral warships. Maybe certain elitist elements would rather see France breach the contract?
Air France 447, like MH 370, MH 17, and AH 5017 also “vanished without a word from the crew.” Perhaps, then, the official report
regarding Air France 447, which explained the affair in terms of heavy weather, a high altitude stall, and pilot error also happens to more or less describe what occurred with AH 5017?
Then again, it was reported regarding Air France 447 that:
“Two pilots of an Air Comet flight from Lima to Lisbon saw a bright flash of light in the area where Flight 447 went down, the Madrid-based airline told CNN. The pilots have turned in their report to authorities.
“Suddenly, we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, which followed a descending and vertical trajectory and which broke up in six seconds,” the captain wrote in the report.
The flash of light contributes to the theory that an explosion is what brought down Flight 447, which was carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.”
on board was china’s top defence scientist , xiao xiang, who oversee the nuclear submarine and nuclear aircraft carrier program.
china was colloborating with brazil in a nuclear submarine research,
xiao was on his way back to china.
To be sure, these reports have gone down the memory hole. 
on airfrance 447,
M.A. in Oregon, u.s. • 6 years ago
I am so saddened to see this happen. I am praying for all the people and families involved. I hope that all countries involved or at least several countries will do their own investigations into what caused this to happen. Everyone knows the country I live in can’t be trusted for any reason whatsoever. I hope that all involved will find peace and comfort someday, as only time will allow. If anyone would like to read the truth about world events please visit: rense dot com, globalresearch dot ca, infowars dot com. Please watch internet movies: Zeitgeist the movie, Wake up call, and ENDGAME:Blueprint for global enslavement. There is no church or religion above the TRUTH. Always search for the TRUTH, wherever it may go, whoever it may lead to
But how come that the russian radar screen showed no presence of a fighter jet contrary to what have been said
Do you remember that press conference held by russian authorities allegedly showing fighter jets in the area but Picture show nothing of that if you Watch that press Conference. Radar screen only shows airliners in the air together with MH17 then you can see MH 17 slowing down after being hit and eventually dissapear from screen. Now an echoe appear at the same spot as the MH 17 dissapeared from and the russian (General?) speaking asks about that sechoe claiming it is a fighter jet (SU 25?) but that echoe has almost no horizontal speed at all and dissapears from screen very fast.
If that echoe was a fighter why didnt russia see it Before and why did it have almost no horizontal speed at all? Answer is that most likely it was debris from MH 17 giving away that echoe
But I can hardly muself Believe that russian military is that incompetent so what is going on? Watch it for yourself here its between minute 19 and 23 but Watch whole if you want of course
The answer above was supposed to be an anser to the article and not to “denk”
my take on mh17, mh37 etc is here,
the mother of all cia air assasinations,
the attempt on chinese premier zhou enlai’s life.
The Ceiling of a 75 year old WW2 Spitfire is 40,000 Feet or 12,192 Metres !
Here is the Actual Data:
Spitfire F. Mk. IX BF.274
Climb and level speed performance
………………Climb and level speed performance has been measured on Spitfire F. Mk. IX B.F.274 both with and without a 30 gallon external jettisonable tank fitted. The climb performance at combat rating and position error have also been measured without the tank fitted. The engine was fitted with a 0.477:1 reduction gear and a Rotol R3/4F5/3 metal propeller.
Climb at normal rating:
Maximum rate of climb in M.S. supercharger 3200 ft.min at 13,500 ft.
Maximum rate of climb in F.S. supercharger 2540 ft/min. at 25,900 ft.
Service ceiling (100 ft/min) 42,100 ft.
Time to 10,000 ft. 3.1 mins.
Time to 20,000 ft. 6.5 mins.
Time to 30,000 ft. 10.7 mins
Time to 40,000 ft. 20.2 mins
Climb at Combat rating:
Maximum rate of climb in M.S. supercharger 3860 ft.min at 12,600 ft.
Maximum rate of climb in F.S. supercharger 3020 ft/min. at 25,200 ft.
Service ceiling (100 ft/min) 43,400 ft.
Time to 10,000 ft. 2.7 mins
Time to 20,000 ft. 5.6 mins.
Time to 30,000 ft. 9.2 mins
Time to 40,000 ft. 16.6 mins
One other thing that is consistently overlooked is the fact that the ukrianian airforce had been utilizing a tactic of
Using civilian airliners as cover and this was reported in a sitrep by strelkov on June 9th 2014 over a month before mh 17. So granting that we do not assume that te ukrainian govt is so evil that they’d intentionally murder over a hundred innocent civilians to blame russia and the sepretists and granted that even if we accept the ukrainian and their western allies claim that the dpr did shoot down the plane by accident, they still are at fault for directing a plane over a conflict Zone where airstrikes were being carried out and where they knew AA guns were being used for the purpose of covering their airstrikes they are still at fault while the dpr’s only fault is that they used whatever mean necessary to defend themselves. I’m not saying that definitely this happened and maybe the ukrainian govt is that evil but for the sake of convincing those on the other side it seems this situation is more plausible and still the blame is on the ukrianian govt. please Lmk what anyone thinks about this theory. The sitrep I cited was found on slavyangrad website.
Remember also CHAFF was recorded deployed at the time seen floating directly thru the ground-crash smoke; evidence of military aircraft action immediate to the catastrophe.
Also, fact it was the second Malaysian in 6 months to suffer tragedy (MH17 HAD to be ‘picked’) leads to deeper or further down the authority chain decision making than ‘just Kiev.
Two birds with one stone.
in the case of mh370 i counted six birds,
*the most obvious one from the outset,
sowing discord bet chinese/malaysians
*payback to malaysia for its *war crime tribunal* in kl ,amongst other *crimes*,
the court indicted bush, blair as war criminals.
*dr mahathir’s archenemy ,soros, exacting his pound of fresh.
*take out top defence scientists from china, much like the airfrance 477
hit which liquidated the father of china’s nuclear sub/carrier program,,
*prempted the transfer of state of art chip tech to china.
*last but not least, *persuade* kl to join the *pivot* against china.
kl has been put thru the wringer for almost a yrs now, starting with mh370,
then mh17, airasia QZ8501, mh148, sabah freak earthquake, warsj led media campaign against pm najib, racial riots targetting chinese malaysians….
all signs in recent weeks point to an about turn of attitude, kl is now talking tough against china in the scs issue, a far cry from its friendly posture pre mh370.
another china’s ally bites the dust, following nepal, myanmar, sri lanka ?
Dear Saqr, what do you think of this “alternative” Ukrainian version:
Большая военная тайна. Авиация и ракеты против «военторга»
Their thesis is logically argumented. The only moot point is, supposing the Russians really were involved, they would have shown an incredible level of incompetence in the course of a highly sensitive secret operation, which, while possible, seems unlikely. For instance, I imagine that following the tracks of passenger liners to avoid such a tragic error should be technically possible, even if the Ukrainian plane was purposely hiding behind the Boeing.
Could you provide an analytical comment on this?
A good Facebook friend of mine, a British academic teaching at University in Athens, former Ambassador – William Mallinson – posted this today:
“This is disgusting: the Netherlands, once a beacon of justice, are now just a a lying client state, no longer able to reveal facts…..read on:
“On Wednesday, however, Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte’s government issued a statement rejecting all Freedom of Information Act (WOB) requests by Elsevier into 17 documents relating to the JIT pact. It said that the benefits of disclosing information about the MH17 investigation were outweighed by the risk of damage to the Dutch state’s relations to other states and world bodies.””
Speaks volumes, doesn’t it?
Given that the preliminary findings suggest a missile, the investigators have not said from whom though. But in even manufacturers of BUKs themselves in Russia have concluded that it was a BUK missile, so why are we still considering the SU25 ‘theory’. This information was released by Russian traffic control 24 hours after the event, was this to deflect attention?
That is not correct. The manufacturers said IF is was a SAM then it had to have been an SA11 M-1, which is a BUK out of production, so they could not be held responsible and should have sanctions against them. They also said they can not refute other possible causes of the plane being shot down.
See my comment at http://thesaker.is/mh-17-one-year-later/#comment-136334
for the past two yrs something very disconcerting happened in china, practically every other mth we heard about a major *accident*, especially in the petrochemical industry.
in an earlier post,
Asnónimo on August 23, 2015 · at 9:59 pm UTC
*Those who suspect the following series of accidents is not accidental are paranoid conspiracy spammers and should be contained.
[the guy is in snark mode no doubt ;-)]
April 7, 2015
Chemical plant blast in China (second in 2 years)
July 16, 2015
Petrochemical plant blast in China
August 12, 2015
Massive blast in Tianjin, China
Chemical plant blast in China
[from what i recall this is just a partial list]
Explosions at US military base in Japan
some would say that with such a dismal record, tianjin is just something waiting to happen. matter of fact, as if on cue, the msm and even alternate media are having a field day dissing/gloating on china’s *massive corruption*.
china’s industrial safety measure is woefully inadequate, but is it that bad ?
when it suddenly started raining cats and dogs, its prudent to think scientifically.
the fundamental theorom of probability says,
*once is accident, twice coincidence, thrice……enemy action*
who might that enemy be, ?
well who’s been attacking china since 1949 ?
[i.e. if u dont count the opium war, eight nation alliance rape of beijing, burning of
yuan ming yuan, younghusband’s invasion of tibet 1903 etc etc]
1959 tibet uprising,
1962 india sino border war, [instigated by fukus]
1999 attack on chinese embassy in ex yugo,
2001 hainan spyplane provocaton, one chinese pilot dead.
2003 iraq invasion, chinese embassy attacked by cia rent a mob *insurgents*,
chinese oil contract under saddam hussain declared null and voil by the occupying
force, loss estimated at trillions.
2003 sars, all hxnx series, swine flu, bird flu in subsequent yrs until this day,
2008 tibet riots
2008 nepal’s pro beijing monarchy ousted by cia/raw.
2009 xinjiang bloodbath,
2013 south sudan seccession engineered by fukus, china’s oil pipeline
cut in half,
2013 asia pivot,
2013 tam bomb attack,
2013 chinese facilities and workers attacked by cia rent a mob *insurgents* in
libya, tens of thousands chinese evacuated, financial loss estimated at tens of billions,
2014 hk umbrella rev,
2015 pivot on steriod,
2015 sri lanka’s pro beijing prez deposed by cia/raw,
[a partial list]
2015 tianjin Armageddon ???
from past pattern , fukus enjoyed sending nasty *gift* to china/russia etc, prior to a major event, this is to inflict max humuliation to the host when its under the world’s spotlight.
1989 tam rebellion courtesty of unitedsnake, on the eve of gorbacev’s visit to beijing.
2008 tibet riots, courtesy of the snake, on the eve of beijing olympics.
2009 xinjiang bloodbath, courtesy of the snake, during g8 meeting. hu jing tao had to rush back to china to deal with the crisis.
2014 ukraine putsch , courtesy of the snake, while moscow was basking in the
limelight of sochi olympics extravaganza.
2015 tianjin monstrous blast, on the eve of beijing’s victory parade commermorating ww2,
a gift from g-o-d or is it the antichrist ?
*Pentagon’s “Rods from God” program which involves satellites armed with tungsten rods measuring about one foot by twenty feet that can be fired earthwards at over 6000 mph to any target of White House choosing. The effect is “nuclear without the fallout”. The program is so highly classified that very few people know anything about it.*
the timing of tianjin blast is just a bit too convenient, coming on the eve of beijing’s
ww2 victory parade and right after china’s devaluation of the yuan, which was greeted by howls of *currency war* in the west.
tianjin is a fast rising super star in china’s new phase of economic development, it plays a pivotal role in the *one belt , one road* grand strategy.
*China’s ports, cities and hinterlands feature prominently. Fifteen ports, from Tianjin in the north to Haikou in the south, are earmarked for upgrading. The Shanghai and Guangzhou airports are slated to become logistics hubs. Inland, largely poor provinces are supposed to see a boost too.*
this *accident* reeks of a signature cia hit, the sobs always aim for the max bang per buck.
+it deals a serious blow to tianjin port’s ugrading plan,
+major petrochemical projects suffered a series of major *accidents* recently,
future development would come under even stiffer resistance from the populace.
+the tianhe super computer has been shut down due to structural damage to the building,
+the msm , even alternate media’s almost gleeful trumpeting of massive malpractice and corruption further erodes cpc’s cred amongst the populace,
+china’s image suffered another huge blackeye,
greenpeace was first on the scene , a * rapid response field team* no less, ala the unitedsnake’s worldwide *rapid reaction force* i guess ?
the verdict, tianjin blast is the result of massive mismanagement and corruption in china, !
so somebody have been cutting corners and taking bribes,
but how was the chemicals ignited , i’d go for sabotage., whether its nuclear, *rod of god*, stuxnet or ignition by local agents. ?
i’d even venture that the series of *mishaps* in the past two yrs were part of the plot, a build up to the current narrative. its going viral all round, that tianjin armaggedon is an indictment on the whole chinese system.
this guy nails it , 
*The space-based blasting of already flammable targets such as oil pipelines
and chemical plants makes for an ideal dirty attack because the targets offer built-in plausible denial and cover-up excuses — such as: “insufficient regulation” or “negligence”.*
post sars/swine flu attack, the talk was all about how the chinese sanitary sucks,
after the tibet, xinjiang bloodbath where hans got chopped up or blown to smithereens, every headline in msm and not a few in alternate media screamed *chinese oppression, brutal crackdown, genocide* . [sic]
sounds familiar ?
not exactly o.t.
You forgot one thing,
Since the explosion at Tianjin, China has been dumping large amounts of US Treasury bonds, by the mother load, and i mean huge numbers. It will reak havoc on the american economy, it will be like QE but in reverse.
So you could say, that China is saying, f* you…..you blow up our chemical plant, we’ll destroy the dollar…..
Just a thought.
the empire of chaos is on steriod,
something big seems to be brewing,
what’d the snake think up next ???
when it comes, it’d make tianjin looks like child’s play ?
One thing everybody forgets so fast are the things that were repported directly after the incident became know. Like the following….
1. That the last 10 flights of this airplane’s route, never went over the route it took when it was hit. There was an article about this with the data from Flightradar24.com to prove it. So on that day, this flight was explicietly redirected towards a different course then it usally followed. Also the aircraft altitude was orderd to be lowered by the urkrainian air traffic controllers.
2. What about the air traffic controller who yelled it out over social media when it happend that the UAF and SBU where responsible for the attack. Or was this also a false or misleading info.
3. What about all the fake ‘so called’ evidence that was shown to the world by the ukies and all that has been proven to be false. This is clearly a sign of a desperate act to put the blame on the innocent. There sould by a justification for all that false evidence and at least a law suit should be presented against the ukainian goverment.
One thing still can’t forget is that so called voice recording made between the rebels and some colonel where they were talking about the shooting of the aircraft. Only the idiots had posted it a day before on youtube or facebook, on the 16th july. Still nobody wonders….?? WTF is wrong with you people. This is a positief indication that the whole thing was planned en carried out.
Because i know for sure, the russians would never make such a stupid mistake.
4. Where is the flight data and voice recorder messages. Why has this not yet been made public.
Remember the plane crash in the france alps, that data and voice recordings where made public within a few days. And here still nothing.
5. Indeed, where is the US intelligence data? …so far all they could come up with was an image from google maps with red crayon marker depicting the flight path of the aircraft.
Most impressive… who made that, some fifth grader ?
6. And something i remember but haven’t read anything about it since that day. Was that flight MH-17 had a delayed departure of 2 hours. Why was this….Why was flight MH-17 delayed for 2 hours instead of its originally departure time from amsterdam.
Further more, this week it came out that the ‘official’ report by the investigation team lead by the Netherlands, will be presented on October 13th.
I quess its fair to say that the report is then finished by now and that it is being reviewed by all the countries and agencies that are connected too this incident. So that means that the urkainiane goverment allso must be reviewing this report, because of the standing agreement they made, that no evidence or information can be made public without the including countries consent.
So what to expect on October 13th….nothing new i quess.
in any unatural death, no way would the chief beneficiary be involved with the investigation.
yet thats exactly what happen with these series of *accidents*
the mh370 forsenic team was headed by canberra , as if thats not enough,
its *assisted* by fbi and mi6, talk about the fox guarding the chicken coop !
judge , prosecutor, executioner all in one.
game , set , match.
any wonder that the malaysian police chief lamented aloud
*i doubt we’d ever know the truth* and…
dr mahathir didnt hesitate to lambast canberra and cia for *withholding vital information about mh370*.
unbeknown to the good dr, the snake was already linning up more nasty surprises
to punish kl’s *insolence*.
on earthquake *drill* turning *live*, disappearing planes , cyber warfare and climate scam .
this is definitely not ot
this is the evil empire in a nutshell !
Great blog! Thanks. You are kind of a Western Boris Rozhin (http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com). I hope your readership will continue to grow.
this is not ot
mh370 ,mh17, asia pivot, ukraine putzh, tianjin armageddon….
this is a concerted assault on the brics !
i cant vouch for everything claimed in this piece but we both agree,
like hell this is just an accident !
tianjin armageddon, *accident* or ff ?
dont think this is ot, this is non trivial, coz brics is currently attacked by this m.o. or its variants !
the great satan is exploiting china’s massive corruption to mount a ff in tianjin, then followed up with a media blitz telling the world its all the chinese own fault. 
similarly when they hit china with sars, the *international community* was duly informed by the msm, aka cia’s mighty wurlitzer, its the result of china’s dismal hygenic practice.
post xinjiang bloodbath where hans were slaughtered like sacrificial lambs, the usual suspects cnn, warsj, nyt blamed china’s *brutal oppression* for driving the *freedom fighters* to violence. a meme readily echoed by many *progressives* in alternate media.
this is a particular sick joke coz china’s the most generous minority policy in the world bar none.
the above are classic cia m.o., works like a charm since 1875.
i basically agree with the author, with some caveats…..
+some say mike adams is a disinfo agent.
well anybody who censors my comments cant be very credible in my book !
adams also boasts about a bevy of *chinese dissidents* as informants, sounds suspciously like a *company* man talking doesnt it ;-)
+the author falls for the msm meme that china is striving for worlds top dog by toppling the incumbent. thats bs,
china has neither the heart nor muscle to be no1.
it needs to maintain at least a growth rate of 7/8 % just to feed its gigantic populace forchrissake, its forace in africa, south america spawns out of the need to circumvent the unitedsnake’s stranglehold in the malacca straits chokepoint.
hardly a move to *challenge* or *compete* with the great satan ,as widely peddled in the western bullhorn.
+the socalled nefarious chinese plan to paralyse the great satan by hacking its power /water grid is pure and undulterated bs cooked up by pentagoon to feed the murkkan *mushrooms*. 
its the usual crap attributed to unamed officials or pentagoon accredited *security contractors, unsubstantiated by any hard evidence.
the sad state of affairs in the land of the *free* now is such that this is all it takes to scare the murkkans into wetting their pants !
*murkkans are like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed bushit all day* !
Agree. Actually it was quite obvious from the beginning: who has a motivation?
thats right, cui bono ?
when i heard about the malaysian airliner mh370 *diappearance* with 200+ chinese nationals onboard, i instinctively knew it couldnt be an accident.
anybody who had been following closely the geopolitical scene in asia ought to smell something fishy, malaysia was the last man standing in asean who didnt wanna join the zwo asia pivot against china !
my hunch was vindicated by the series of mishaps which followed, mh17, airasia, ….mh148 etc..
as for tianjin, shandong blast , im 99% sure its a u.s. black op.
unitedsnake the world’s no1 arsonist has been attacking china relentlessly since time immermoria.  currently its mounting a military provocation in scs, ecs, an attack on china’s economy, a demonisation campaign thru msm. in the last 10 mths alone it has perpetrated a spade of black ops against china including the mh370 and xinjiang terrorism .
the timing and m.o. of the tianjin blast has the cia finger print all over it.
this doesnt constitute a smoking gun yet but….i’d be damned if the snake has nothing to do with it !!
true to form, the snake already has a ready ans for this,
*Another factory explosion rocks China. Another case of corruption exposed? *
just do a search on the subject , the verdict is in, nothing to see here, its all about the rampant corruption in china. !
this is how the cia one -two punch works,
1] attack the target,
2] saturation media demonisation to blame the victim.
like the rapist who told the judge the fault is with the victim who’s too scantily clad. !
in the xinjiang bloodbath, the world’s no1 butcher of muslims the unitedsnake let loose its jihadists mercs on the hans, then followed up with a media blitz on *chinese brutal oppression in xinjiang, ccp brutal crackdown on peaceful demonstrators*,
the world’s no1 *shit stirrer* was pissed off when that ruse failed to provoke an international jihad against china,
*Unrest in Xinjiang: Where’s the Muslim outrage? * [sic]
as for those who sniff *conspiracy theory* !
* Is there any way you can look at the chronological events over the last month and not conclude they are connected
Are there too many coincidental technological, financial and geopolitical dots lined up to come to any conclusion other than we are already in the early stages of war??*
i agree with two caveats,
1] to say there’s a war going on is damn unfair to china/russia,, coz they’ve been at the receiving end of unitedsnake’s one-sided covert/overt attacks for decades, if not centuries.
2] of course the explosion at the unitedsnake naval base in jp is connected to the series of *accidents* in china, but i dont believe its a chinese/russian retaliation as suggested by some, i think its more likely a u.s. subterfuge to obfuscate and confuse. it sure looks like kindergarten stuff compared to the tianjin armageddon anyway.
this isnt o.t.
its all part of the zwo attack on the brics. !
further to the previous list of unitedsnake’s attack on china, the following
just comes to mind,
*terrorists slaughtered chinese workers in afghan,
*terrorists slained chinese engineers, workers, tourists in afpak,
*terrorists butchered chinese sailors in the makong river,
*gunmen killed a busload of hk tourists in cold blood, manila.
sobs have started ww3 and mum is the word..
*World War 3 has probably started
(and mum is the word)
There was a major explosion in Dongying China. This would be the third explosion. This one was as bad as the huge one at Tianjin and was felt 50 KM away. Of extreme interest here: The Tianjin blast happened at 11:30 PM. This blast happened at 11:28 PM. These blasts happened within two minutes of each other on the clock. So I am calling it, once is an accident, twice is coincidence and three times is enemy action, and with the subtle message being delivered which is: same time of night so you over there in China know this was US, and no accident. I have no doubt this is aggression against China.*
something just happened…..
*Something changed three weeks ago and a series of events began. It all started with China announcing 600 additional tons of gold. This was followed by the IMF rebuff of China, the three yuan devaluations and three “coincidental” explosions. Then equity markets around the world (which were already weak) began to violently unravel and finally spilled over to the U.S.. This tested the PPT’s limits (which were apparently $23 billion last week).*
*What do Krefeld (8/5/15), Bitterfeld (8/3/15), Moscow (8/12/15), Tianjin (8/12/15), Conroe (8/15/15), Shandong (8/22/15) and Sagami (8/24/15) have in common?
Explosions in chemical plants. We are told Sagami was not a chemical plant but… who really knows?
The first 6 explosions happened after Germany, Russia, China and Texas openly opposed Washington and its Neocons. Germany opposed Washington on arming Ukraine. Moscow… well, we know. Texas demanded its gold and has b een fighting the Fed for a sweet long time. China devalued three times its Yuan in one week.
Sagami is not so easy to understand. But Neocons have never shied away from creating false flags by killing americans when necessary.
the sagami blast is a dud, it merely punctured a hole in the ceiling of a store room.
obviously a ff but why ?
a theory going around suggest that someone is simultaneously hitting china, unitedsnake to instigate a nuclear war bet the two powers,, i dont buy it.
the great satan harbours the most malice towards china and has the greatest motive to attack due to the chinese monetary policy.
afaic its the no1, in fact the only suspect.
i believe the sagami ff is a psyop to shift the blame to some shadowy *third force*.
the cunning of great satan can never be overstated.
If anyone was following the Spanish Air traffic Controllers ( @spainbuca) tweets that fateful morning as I was knows it would have been impossible for the events transpiring in real-time to have been pre-scripted the ways his tweets read.
I have heard the tale that Georgia had several SU25’s, one of which somebody (possibly Mossad) had retrofitted
wthi missile-launch gear and used in this case by, perhaps, Israeli-trained personnel who piloted the aircraft(s).
it was the ukraine airspace that redirected the flight of the MH17 to fly over the war zone, surely that implicates their guilt.