by Sandhya Jain
Continuing tensions over Ukraine notwithstanding, including a US-led boycott of the Victory Day Parade commemorating the 70th anniversary of Germany’s surrender in World War II, Russia under President Vladimir Putin has retrieved much of its eminence as a great power and even managed a handsome recovery of its sanction-hit rouble. By tweaking its West-centric gaze towards Siberia and the Arctic (which Putin likely visited during a mysterious absence some weeks ago); towards Asia, the Middle East, South America and Africa, Moscow straddles a multipolar world and a multipolar Asia. Given that the bulk of its vast territories embrace the Asian landmass, it would be a mistake not to think of Russia as an Asian power.
The reality that it is already a multipolar Asia would not have escaped Beijing, which in recent years is expanding its global footprint while seeking a commanding presence in its Asian neighbourhood. Given its deep economic and strategic ties with Moscow, Beijing obviously recognises that Russia will pursue its interests in Central Asia, Europe, Iran and the Islamic world, with India, and elsewhere.
The People’s Republic will have to accept that there is no escape from sharing eminence with rising powers like India and Iran, which, like Russia and China, share strategic and economic interests in the same regions. Nor will it be possible to exclude countries like Japan, Vietnam, Australia, Indonesia and Malaysia, to name a few, from pursuing their interests in the Asia-Pacific. The Chinese leadership will therefore have to come to terms with the fact that Beijing is unlikely to enjoy the ‘sole superpower’ status that the United States briefly enjoyed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Currently, Beijing resents India’s assertiveness in Asia and even more in the Indian Ocean where India has a commanding presence by virtue of its geographical location. More importantly, many countries feel less threatened by the rise of India and favour New Delhi assuming greater responsibilities in protecting the sea-lanes from the African coast to the Indonesian islands. India is accordingly prioritising modernisation of its navy and air force. By scaling down the strength of the new mountain strike force from a proposed 90,000 to around 30,000 troops, the Modi government has defanged the hardliners who were upping the ante on the border dispute with China, both before and during his visit to that country.
The Indo-China border dispute, a legacy of the British Raj, has been made intractable by China’s annexation of Tibet and acquisition of Indian territory (Aksai Chin, to consolidate its hold on Tibet) from Pakistan, which the latter has illegally occupied in contravention of UN Resolutions. This unresolved dispute has been aggravated by Beijing nibbling at Indian territory in Ladakh (Jammu & Kashmir) in recent years.
In April 2015, Beijing announced an ambitious China-Pakistan Economic Corridor from its Xinjiang province to the Gwadar port in Baluchistan (Pakistan), via Gilgit-Baltistan which legally belongs to India, being part of the erstwhile princely State of Jammu & Kashmir. The plan is to link its New Silk Road and Maritime Silk Road (‘One Belt, One Road’) initiatives with Central Asia and later the Middle East, Europe, and Africa. While professional Cassandras loudly declaimed that China was challenging India in her maritime backyard (Arabian Sea), they omitted to mention that New Delhi is investing $100 million to develop the Chabahar Port in Iran, which will grant it access to Afghanistan and Central Asia, bypassing Pakistan. China’s proposed corridor has, however, sparked deep resentment in Gilgit-Baltistan and may not be easy to implement. New Delhi summoned the Chinese envoy to protest against this project. However, the earthquake that that struck Nepal on April 26, with strong aftershocks hitting the region even after three weeks, could affect the viability of projects in this mountainous region.
There is also real danger from jihadist outfits that Pakistan has nurtured in pursuit of its strategic objectives in Afghanistan and India. Central Asia is the new frontier of radical Islam; Chechnya, Fergana, and Xinjiang are the new recruiting ground for the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), which recently established a base in the Afghanistan badlands. Hence, Russia, China, Iran, and India will have to cooperate in fighting the jihadi menace.
Chinese claims on the Indian State of Arunachal Pradesh – first articulated in 2006 when it was called South Tibet – are a baseless tactic to pressurise India. The claims were rebutted by the 14th Dalai Lama, who asserted that Arunachal Pradesh was historically never a part of Tibet. The claim seems to be a ruse to avert a situation in which Tibetans claim that the next incarnation of the aged Dalai Lama is born in territory outside Chinese control (the sixth Dalai Lama, Tsangyang Gyatso, was born near the Tawang monastery in Arunachal Pradesh). As an aside, one may mention that India’s Kushan empire included Kashgar (Kashi), Khotan and Yarkant in the Tarim Basin, and Kushan control over the road from China to Gandhara (Afghanistan) facilitated trade and travel across the Khunjerab Pass and enabled the spread of Mahayana Buddhism to China.
While Beijing’s hostility to Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh in February this year was unwarranted, it suggested that there would be no forward movement on the border issue, notwithstanding the high optics accompanying Modi’s visit (May 14-16), which began with a trip to President Xi Jinping’s hometown of Xi’an, from where Xuanzang set off for a pilgrimage of important Buddhist sites in India in the seventh century, and even arrived at a monastery in Modi’s hometown, Vadnagar, Gujarat. But Xi’an is also the new axis of power in China, with three of the seven top leaders of the politburo standing committee, eight of 25 politburo members and four out of 11 members of the central military commission belonging to the ‘Shaanxi group’.
Shrewd and pragmatic, Modi refused to allow establishment hawks to dictate the terms of engagement and accorded priority to civilisational, commercial, and civilian ties. At the Tsinghua University on the last day of his tour, he articulated the Indian position on all issues firmly while moving to improve bilateral trade and investment opportunities. India, he said, currently enjoys a growth rate of 7.5 per cent and is working to create next generation infrastructure – roads, ports, railways, airports, telecom, digital networks and clean energy. Yet, he said, it is imperative to bridge the doubts and distrust in the relationship, to settle the boundary quickly, and to first settle the ambiguity regarding the Line of Actual Control.
Modi specifically mentioned the tensions over trans-border rivers (from the Himalayas) and unilaterally extended electronic tourist visas to Chinese citizens, even as critics bemoaned the stapled visas for Indians from Jammu & Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh. He refused to let Pakistan’s growing strategic relationship with Beijing derail his engagement with China and remained focused on his larger perspectives: he inked fresh deals worth $22 billion (in addition to previously pledged investments of $20 billion), and sought China’s support for India’s permanent membership of a reformed UN Security Council and the Nuclear Suppliers Group.
A signature theme of India’s security establishment for over a decade has been China’s ‘string of pearls’ strategy to encircle India, a reference to China’s growing ties with Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Bangladesh and Pakistan. The decibels rose sharply when China began building the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka (a project declined by India) and again when, in 2014, then President Rajapaksa twice permitted a Chinese nuclear submarine to dock at the island nation. Modi intervened, quietly but decisively, and after Maithripala Sirisena came to power, the Colombo port project with China was deferred and the Mattala Rajapaksa International Airport, opened in 2013 with a Chinese investment of $200 million, rendered defunct.
Actually, an undue pessimism pervades India’s security establishment because it continues to harbour a Nehruvian worldview, and has not been able to overcome the trauma of defeat in 1962. Yet, when the then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited China in June 2003, he secured Chinese recognition of Indian sovereignty over Sikkim (which it once disputed), and for the first time since 1960, both sides appointed special representatives (SR) to negotiate the boundary dispute. In 2013 and 2014, China agreed to pull back its soldiers from eastern Ladakh.
In recent times, India’s engagement with Russia has appeared rather muted. But the day before the Prime Minister left for China, President Putin telephoned him and Modi confirmed his participation in the forthcoming BRICS summit and Shanghai Cooperation Organisation summit, both in Ufa, in July. New Delhi’s quest for full membership of the SCO may be approved at this meeting. The two leaders also discussed a range of issues concerning expansion of the Russia-India privileged strategic partnership.
Indeed, Russia, China and India and even Iran have converging interests in stabilising Afghanistan and curbing its multi-billion dollar drug trade, as well as containing terrorism in Central Asia and the neighbourhood. India does not endorse the Western line on Iran, Syria or Ukraine; at Fortaleza, Brazil (August 2014), Modi reportedly assured Putin that he would not support the US/EU (not UN) sanctions against Russia.
Fortaleza was Modi’s first global engagement after coming to power, and it was here that the members decided to launch the New Development Bank with a $100 billion fund and currency reserve pool of $100 billion, to help third world countries access loans without ‘unfair’ conditions imposed by West-dominated multilateral financial institutions such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and Asian Development Bank. India has appointed KV Kamath as the first chief of the Shanghai-based bank. China’s ambitious Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), mooted in 2013 to support infrastructural projects in the region, has acquired over 40 members, including America’s western allies who are keen for Chinese investments and trade.
Modi was quick to understand that the coming era belongs to the non-West and is keen to receive the fruits of the Russia-India-China (RIC) grouping. Russia is reportedly keen on an India-China rapprochement, so that the RIC can emerge as an economic and strategic axis that can challenge the dominant West, especially the United States. To be stable and viable, such an alliance needs Iran (RICI), which is a force to be reckoned with in the Gulf region. The interests of all four nations converge in many areas.
In fact, China’s One Belt One Road, India’s Cotton Route and Project Mausam, and the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union (EEU), are all complementary projects based on the old land and sea-based trade routes of the ancient world. Even in the centuries BC, the land and sea commerce between India, Persia, Egypt, up to the African coast, was protected by different dynasties; China joined this trade only under the Han dynasty, but expanded it exponentially.
Currently, the Sino-Russian alliance is the fastest growing. Trade between the two countries stands at $100 billion annually, and some long-term energy deals – driven by Moscow’s need to counter a Western attempt to throttle its pipelines – have cemented the relationship. In May 2014, the two signed a 30-year $400 billion gas deal and another $325 billion gas deal in November 2014, sharply reducing Russian reliance on Europe. In fact, cash-strapped Russia has agreed to sell its most advanced air defence system, the S-400 missile, and 100 Sukhoi Superjet airplanes, to China. Beijing will invest $5.8 billion to extend the Moscow-Kazan high speed railway into China. In all, the two nations have signed 32 infrastructure related agreements during President Xi’s visit to Moscow in May.
Russia is also moving ahead with Turkish Stream, a trans-Black Sea pipeline that will deliver natural gas to Turkey by December 2016; Putin has offered Greece to fund an extension of the pipeline to the heart of Europe. So far, Serbia, Macedonia, Hungary and Greece have expressed a desire to be part of the project. The Turkish Stream is a Russian counter-offensive to the West’s attempt to checkmate its South Stream pipeline at Bulgaria.
President Xi was the principal guest of honour at Moscow’s Victory Day celebrations (an estimated 25 million Russians sacrificed their lives during the War), but leaders of around 30 nations attended despite Washington’s boycott call. Nations who participated in the parade at Red Square included India, China, Mongolia, Serbia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Beijing is now planning its own end-of-World War II military parade in September to highlight its contribution to the War (in which an estimated 15 lakh Chinese soldiers died) and challenge the West-centric narrative that has hitherto dominated the history books. This is yet another symbol of the rise of Asia.
Sandhya Jain is a writer of political and contemporary affairs and writes a fortnightly column for The Pioneer, New Delhi. She edits an opinions forum, www.vijayvaani.com, and contributes to a web portal, www.Niticentral.com. Jain is a post graduate in Political Science from Delhi University, Delhi, and has had two decades of experience as a professional journalist in leading newspapers such as The Hindustan Times, The Telegraph, and Sunday Mail (weekly). She briefly worked with the Indian Institute of Mass Communication (IIMC), New Delhi. Jain is a student of the myriad facets of Indian civilisation. Her published works include
- Adi Deo Arya Devata. A Panoramic View of Tribal-Hindu Cultural Interface, Rupa, 2004.
- Contributed a chapter on Hindu view on population control in Sacred Rights, ed. Dan Maguire, Oxford University Press, New York, 2003.
- Evangelical Intrusions. Tripura: A Case Study, Rupa, 2009.
- Contributed a chapter on Jain Dharma in “Why I am a Believer: Personal Reflections on Nine World Religions,” ed. Arvind Sharma, Penguin India, 2009.
- Edited a compilation of outsider accounts on India titled, The India They Saw. Foreign Accounts: 5th century BC – 7th century AD (Ocean Books Pvt Ltd, 2011).
India has a bad case of Anglo disease, it seems! Someone should clue them in that arrogance is fading as a workable tactic in a system that is based on shared human values.
Take that report in the article about Sri Lanka developments……
“The decibels rose sharply when China began building the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka (a project declined by India) and again when, in 2014, then President Rajapaksa twice permitted a Chinese nuclear submarine to dock at the island nation. Modi intervened, quietly but decisively, and after Maithripala Sirisena came to power, the Colombo port project with China was deferred and the Mattala Rajapaksa International Airport, opened in 2013 with a Chinese investment of $200 million, rendered defunct….”.
India passes on building the port and then stiffs the Chinese for $200 million by sabotaging the airport!
Smells like AngloZionists to me.
Congratulations to the Saker team for posting this article. It was overall well balanced and put together by somebody competent that actually understands India, its history, culture and current geopolitical situation.
The 2 errors I saw in the article are the author’s assertions regarding Australia/Malaysia and the statement that Russian is Cash-strapped. These are clearly errors:
– Russia is awash is huge foreign currency reserves, and is a net creditor nation. They sold the S-400 more for strategic reasons than for financial reasons.
-her including Malaysia and Australia in the list of other poles to China (Australia’s influence and GDP is less than that of a small European nation, same for Malaysia). If she had stated ASEAN as separate pole, that would have been more realistic. Their inclusion in the author’s list seems more like paying lip-service to some of India’s minor, but important, trading partners (sort of like the Russia media playing up the importance of Tajikistan or Azeribaijan.)
Well you can’t expect her to be an expert on Russia when her focus is India and China. ;-)
The Pioneer is a good publication to get the views of the Non-5th-Columnists voice in the English language media of India. The person that recommended you publish this, served you well. It’s editorial slate is closer to that of Indian sovereignists.
Australia is one of the 5-Eyes, and slavishly so, currently being run by clowns.
Malaysia is a sad story, and will need rescuing soon. Before losing two planes they did an in-absentia war crimes trial against George W Bush and Tony Blair. Currently are doing joint scare-China exercises with US Navy in the South China Sea, despite an ongoing scandal about Malaysian defence interests bribing highranking US Navy officials. There are also issues about local ethnic Chinese vs native Malaysians. To make governing harder still, it is geographically split over two separate mainland areas, both of which it shares with other nations. It is well placed to be turned into a trouble spot.
I think you’ve described that perfectly, that certainly explains Malaysian nervousness and acquiescence.
Don’t forget the attempted Colour Revolution at the most recent Malaysian elections. At least the traitor and comprador Anwar Ibrahim is back in gaol where he belongs.
You have put that pretty well Kat Kan. Australia will go down with the USS Titanic (my family living in Australia, that is not good). The Asia pacific nations involved in the US pivot are all very susceptible to colour revolution type problems. It is happening now in Thailand.
In the last week Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia were flooded with refugees from Myanmar and Bangladesh. Nothing to account for the sudden flood of refugees.
Philippines, ex US empire state has announced it will take them in.
The US pivot on Asia has commenced.
Absolutely. Indian arrogance is always rather pathetic, when remembering its failure to keep up with China, and its current close relationships with the USA and Israel, who view Indians with racist contempt as dupes. The 1962 war rankles, as India was unambiguously the aggressor (although historical revisionism is nowadays rife)got its arse kicked, whereupon the Chinese unilaterally returned to the line of control. If India refuses the opportunities of a peaceful rapprochement with China, and joins the Atlanticist camp, it will be a mistake of historic proportions.
Unity needed against the Evoil Empire!
It is to be hoped, that in addition to a China-India rapproachment, there will be an India-Pakistan rapproachment.
All eyes must be on Sauron (the Anglo/American/Zionist Oligarchs and their imperialist empire of evil.
The Pakistan versus India confrontation stems from the British imperialist fallback move, from direct control of the Indian subcontinent, to dividing it on religious/cultural levels. Where have we seen this before? Divide and Conquer is one of the cornerstone strategies of imperialist control.
We counter this with the VISION
For the Democratic Republics! India, Pakistan, Palestine, Russia, Novorossya, and, we invite the Chinese people to join; and one day, riding a wave of popular emotion backed by VISION and Militias, so will the people of the United States.
“And the world will live as one.” IMAGINE
In the interests of full disclosure I am a Pakistani.
Whilst it is true that the British Empire ruled utilizing the divide and conquer policy, you must realize that the Indian Subcontinent was never united in the sense of a European Nation state. It was a subcontinent with a plurality of nationalities making alliances with one another and fighting and conquering one another.
Now, today, those who hold power in New Deli cannot accept that a good many Punjabis. Sindhis, Pushtoons, Kashmiris and other such peoples became Muslim over the past centuries and some of them sought to have independence and thus divided their MaBharat. If this prevailing attitude is to continue amongst the ideological advisers to the Modi goverment then this rapprochement is a daydream.
How about your take on the Chinese-Pakistan Infrastructure Corridor?
Is this going to be sustainable with the terrorists already firing up before it gets going?
There will be special Pakistani forces dedicated to protecting the Chinese workers and the project development.
What prospects do you see for this enormous project?
The Chinese-Pakistani corridor is a good thing, in my opinion, however even with special protection I think it will not be sustainable in the long run due to the NATO, Saudi & Indian backed useful idiot terrorist groups. NATO cannot tolerate such a corridor, neither can India and Saudi Arabia does not want Pakistan moving away from her orbit. I do not think China is that keen in embroiling herself in conflict in order to protect her interests in Pakistan, in a way I do not blame them. (I may even say that rogue elements within the Pakistani State may also wish to sabotage this corridor).
How I pray that the leaders of Pakistan would try to cultivate a relationship with the Russian Federation akin to the one with China. The Muslims of Pakistan are closer to the Christians of Russia than they are to the Buddhists/Taoists of China. If only the Pakistani leaders would use Islam to guide their foreign policy! Instead they are serving their Masters in Riyadh & Washington.
Watch for Shoigu and Pakistan military work together. He went there in December and he will be building many links, not just for military sales, but for strategic integration. China and Russia are coordinating on many fronts, though not alliance-builiding. Pakistan’s entrance into SCO will change many things.
Pakistan’s bomb came from Mao giving them the uranium/plutonium. The Chinese links are deep and long. Saudi is a Muslim link and money link, but it is a dead end.
That Pakistan did not supply the ground forces for Saudi Arabia’s venture into Yemen is telling.
I think Pakistan will free itself of many self-imposed limitations. It will take some more time.
But keep an eye on Shoigu, MOD of RF.
I have a lot of respect for some of your other writings, however, I find your naivete and idealism regarding Pakistan is huge. You are expecting sane, consistent and ethical behavior from an artificial junta-run State (like Ukraine), Pakistan, that was created by the West to serve their geopolitical needs (like Western Ukraine).
Before you take the views of anonymous Pakistani as a baseline for your assumptions regarding Pakistani suitability as reliable member of any alliance, I suggest you do your own independent research. Don’t take my word for it or mr. anonymous Pakistani’s word for it, go google (and Youtube search) following for yourself:
Pakistani State atrocities in Baluchistan, including the burying alive of hundreds of children (according the autopsies performed on the bodies by Pakistani civilian doctors). These are the people our friend, anonymous Pakistani, refers to as terrorists and (ironically) useful idiots.
Here’s documented proof (as a starting point for your research) of the so-called “terrorists” our elitist Pakistani friend refers to: warning pictures of murdered infants (so-called terrorists!) and old-people:
Here’s a video (with English subtitles)of Baloch leader describing Pakistani atrocities against Baluch civilians to Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif (standing next to him); to his credit Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif admitted the atrocities have happened and are happening right in front of the camera:
There, an up front admission, on video, from the Pakistani Head of State (no amount of denying this by blinkered Pakistani nationalists is going to change that).
No matter how sincere Prime Minister Sharif is (and he is a sincere man), the atrocities have not stopped because no-one is in full control of Pakistan (just like Western Ukraine).
Also go look up the well documented genocide committed by the Pakistani army (with encouragement from Nixon and Kissinger) on the civilian population of Bangladesh (then East-Pakistan). Check the documentaries on Youtube, were ex-Pakistani military admit these atrocities, including mass-rape.
No country, including China, is going to achieve any reliable objective in Pakistan, because Pakistan is a semi-controlled anarchy (like Ukraine) that is still a vassal to several powerblocs (the US, Britain, China, the Drug-Cartel, the oligarchs, the Taliban and Gulf-Arabs) in key areas. This is a country ruled by feudal factions where the Prime Minister or even the Army Chief of Staff cannot reliably implement policy across the country (very similar to the situation in Western Ukraine). Pakistan has a huge and powerful narco-terrorist faction in their elite (where do you think all the Afghan Opium destined for Russia, Iran and the EU is processed? Timbuktu? No it’s processed in Pakistani labs).
This is a country that has such extremist nationalism in its Punjabi elite, that even a man (a Punjabi Oligarch) as powerful as Nawaz Sharif (PM), an apparently reasonable man that really wants the best for his country, had to go thru hell just to attend the inauguration of Indian Prime Minister Modi.
Imagine a reasonable man comes to power in Kiev, but he has to deal with moronic blind nationalists like Right-Sector and Banderites while trying to broker a rapprochement with Russia, and you have a very clear picture of the kind situation Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif is in.
If you think Shoigu is going to achieve the goals you’ve stated with respect to Pakistan, you’re dreaming.
I do know enough about the history of Ukraine to make an educated comparison with Pakistan however what I can say is that Pakistan and the territories that make up Pakistan have an independent national identity for many centuries. Each with their own language(s), dress, cultures etc. As I said before in my earlier comment, the Subcontinent was never united into a Modern Nation State. There were various empires some great, some small. That being said I am saddened at the partition of the Punjab and Bengal and of course the continuing conflict in Kashmir. In my opinion Bangladesh should have been a separate country from the get go. I condemn the atrocities committed by the Pakistani military in Bangladesh but I also condemn the dirty role that India also played in that conflict.
I also say that I would have preferred if the, then, Pakistani leadership kept our name as India or at least West India, as Pakistan has equal or possible greater claim to the name India given she contains the Indus river and most of the ancient territories of Indus Valley Civilization.
The mistake that Pakistan did was basing their political system on the system(s) that came from the Modern West instead of adopting Dar-ul-Islam. See Imran Hosein’s work http://www.imranhosein.org/books/126-the-caliphate-the-hijaz-and-the-saudi-wahabi-nation-state.html
Another grave mistake was allying with the USA when fighting the USSR’s invasion into Afghanistan (in violation of the Quran) and becoming the slaves of Saudi petrodollars. This has led to the many rebel groups in the North West who are USED to destabilize Pakistan. This has intensified since the false flag event of 9/11 and the NATO invasion of Afghanistan. The purpose of that invasion was not catching Bin Laden but supporting these terrorist groups in destabilizing Pakistan. Why? Israel cannot expand her borders with a nuclear armed Pakistan. See Mujahid Hosein’s article http://www.imranhosein.org/articles/islam-and-politics/332–pakistan-and-america-heading-for-a-serious-confrontation-over-pak-nukes.html
I agree with Sheikh Imran Hosein that they needed Musharaff in power before they could invade Afghanistan. It was Musharraff who allowed NATO transit routes.
The issue of Baloch independence gained a lot of support during the USSR’s interference in Afghanistan. The USSR wanted access to warm waters and Baluchistan is a coastal province and hence her covert support of Baloch separatists. This died down until the NATO invasion of Afghanistan. You see, if today, Baluchistan became independent, it would be a great victory for NATO, Israel and India and a devastating blow to China. (The loss of Gwadar port). May I also add that many Baloch and I mean many, do not want independence. It is the feudal landlords which want independence as their power will increase and they use their current power to co-erce their common folk. As to the atrocities committed by the State, I condemn them wholeheartedly but I also condemn the dirty role that external agencies are playing in exacerbating this conflict. I also condemn those separatists who murder Pakistanis from different provinces simply because they are not Baloch. This is not highlighted as much in Western media.
You are correct that the government does not have full control over all territories of Pakistan – no thanks to the destabilization forces coming from abroad. You may be correct that Nawaz Sharif (who is an ethnic Kashmiri not Punjabi) is a sincere man but very foolish, advised by insincere advisers whose loyalty I doubt. He is also a slave to Najd.
It is unreasonable of you to suggest that I consider dead children to be useful idiots. Shame on you.
@T ( anonymous Pakistani)
You say to me:
shame on you
For pointing out that you characterized the Baluch resistance as “useful idiots”; I. E. the parents and relatives of those dead children.
This is my response:
Shame on you for ignoring (or omitting) the slaughter almost every non-punjabi ethnicity in Pakistan by its Punjabi dominated military and govt. Shame on you for referring to Baluch Resistance Fighters (who are equivalent to the Donbass resistance) as terrorists and useful idiots in light of the horrible slaughter their people are suffering. Shame on you for omitting these inconvenient facts in your diatribe. Shame on you for blaming the Baluch victim while feigning false sympathy for their dead children.
Your false accusation of India’s anti-imperialist alledged “dirty” role in freeing Bangladesh from Pakistani slavery, mass slaughter, and mass rape exposes your true intellectual dishonesty. Your allegation is exactly equivalent to the NATO accusation that Russia is playing a “dirty” role in Donbass for trying to protect the civilians there from the Kiev Junta’s terror and ethnic cleansing campaign: a shameless lie.
Nawaz Sharif is culturally Punjabi and is part of the Punjabiyat.
The parallels between the artificial state of Western Ukraine and Pakistan are clear:
– both are artificial states
– both were created by outside empires for the their geopolitical purposes
– they both have had a fake history foisted on them
– they are virtually ethnically and culturally identical to the people they’ve been taught to hate
– they have an artificially “created” identity that relies on denying real historical facts in order to keep up the fantasy; even to the point of systematically diverging the national language in order to be different from their mother culture.
– they both have externally brainwashed extreme nationalists at the core of their national ethos who terrorize all the other groups: Galicians in Ukraine and Punjabis in Pakistan.
– they both worship a foreign ” master-race/culture” and reject their own cultural heritage: Pakistanis look to the Arabs as their cultural masters and the Galicians look to the Western Europe
– they are both “buffer” states: created to serve the needs of external empires, the European empires (Austrian, German, Nazi, British and NATO) in the case of Ukraine and the British and Cold War CENTO alliance in the case of Pakistan.
– their ideology and foundation myths are based on fear and hatred of their mother culture
– they both act as willing slaves and mecernaries to their imperial paymasters. -Pakistan has no problems killing Muslims on orders from Washington – in the case of anti-American Pashtoons. And on orders from Beijing, Pakistan has no problems in machine gunning to death Uigur separatists (and videotaping the act) who were undergoing ISI terrorist training in Northern Pakistan.
I could go on, but that would be like shooting fish in barrel.
Suffice it to say, Ukraine is Russia’s or Europe’s equivalent of Pakistan.
It is Pakistan, with its multiple masters (the US, Britain, and Saudi Arabia) that is the real Trojan horse in any SCO arrangement.
I hope you are right that Pakistan and the Russian Federation build lasting relationships however there will be powerful forces both INTERNALLY & externally to prevent or sabotage this. In my opinion Pakistan should be looking to making an alliance with Russia and China similar to like NATO, but maybe I am dreaming. (I agree with the Islamic Eschatology as taught by Imran Hosein).
Yes, Pakistan did not supply ground troops in the Saudi campaign however this was not because Nawaz Sharif and his government did not want to, (they wanted to as they are the slaves of Najd) it was the rest of the National Assembly who unanimously voted against this idiocy.
Islam has far more in common with Tao and Buddhists and you understand. Islam is a universal religion, and not merely “Abrahamic” that it would only be close to Christians. Chinese Muslim scholars have long shown the closeness Islam has to China (The Prophet (pbuh) saying seek knowledge, even in China – was no accident, or merely a metaphor) . For more see:
The Tao of Islam by Sachiko Murata – see also video course by William Chittick and Sachiko Murata:
There is a lot more study that has been done in this area… if you should care to look.
Muslims can be close to Russia and China – we are not bounded by any restrictions.
Thank you for the link. I did not mean to offend nor to say to restrict Muslim Pakistan’s relationship with China however I still maintain that Muslims, religiously, are closER to Christians than persons of other faiths. Since we are closer and that Islamic Eschatology teaches us that in time to come Christians will be closest in love and affection to us, it makes sense to pursue such a relationship.
I just want post something else here. https://www.facebook.com/MesirKini/videos/255940637897540/
to this part region of the world, SEA muslim countries, many people still believe that Basyar kills sunni in syria, in collusion with shia of the world, but when they realised that Obama is attacking Syria, they are going to say, Obama and Basyar in collusion in killing sunni. they forget the fact that Obama is hell bent on bring Basyar regime down. They get most of their news from facebook fanpages who as they proclaim are sending ‘humanitarian aid’ (from voluntary charity) probably in order to get public opinion on their sides. All right probably, they are sending the aid like milk, clothings for winter and such but their information is sometimes false and pro fsa. i even check the drag the image to google image and found fabrication is captioning. muslim in this part of the world see shia as enemy than the wahabi. even when yemen is unfolding, the still ‘support’ the saudi over the the oldest branch of shia which has more similarity with sunni than iranian shia. so obviously their support morsi as morsi oppose basyar. so the video above is more likely to be interpreted as shia hates sunni. just letting go of the grievances
I agree entirely with Kafkananda. There are many intrusions in this article of Anglo-zionist-originated mischievous postures which , unfortunately , have been enthusiastically propagated by the West-subservient portion of the elite in India. I shall mention a couple.
(a)”The Indo-China border dispute, a legacy of the British Raj, has been made intractable by China’s annexation of Tibet and acquisition of Indian territory (Aksai Chin,”
China “annexing” Tibet is a baseless and scurrilous fabrication by the Brits, and it is not the view of an Indian.The first Indian to visit Tibet in modern times, was Babu Sarat chandra Das, in the 19th century. (His was the first ever Tibetan-English dictionary and he had learnt enough to qualify as a Tibetan Lama). He expressed a definite view that Tibet was part of the Chinese Empire.The Brits entered Tibet later, and after asserting themselves by slaughtering Tibetans, they suborned the loyalty of the Dalai Lama, to China and imposed themselves on Tibet. The Dalai Lama always supported the Brits, whereas China under Chiang persuaded President Roosevelt to insist on Indian independence.
Excellent V.V. The use of the CIA asset, the so-called ‘Dalai’, a US dupe for sixty years, as a referee regarding the status of Arunachal Pradesh/South Tibet was quite a give-away. China has borders with fourteen countries and settled all disputes with thirteen. The poor, dear, Indians, egged on by the Anglo-US Zionist betters have refused to do so, thus far. But the Chinese are patient, and, regretably unimpressed by Indian posturing.
The info in this report is useful, but the anti-China slant is not.
Indian numbering system – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The terms lakh (100,000) and crore (10,000,000) are used in Indian English to express large numbers. For example, in India 150,000 rupees becomes 1.5 lakh …
Russia should be a big help in the coming together of the rest of the world, which will be an ongoing process in years ahead.
Part of the transformation, however, should be rethinking the issues of identity, geographic possessions, and components of systems. For border disuputes we might wonder when there is a bridge between two places, to which place does the bridge belong, or is it in a different sort of relationship? Should everyone belong to someone else, or to themselves? Is a man his son’s father or his father’s son? We can rethink and redefine political and organizational classifications.
This alliance will not hold, especially when these nation states are quite busy with foreign and domestic land grabs; an excellent way to create an infinite supply of enemies. In India’s instance, the Naxalites in the past have been very successful at destroying cell phone networks in areas where there are no landlines. Few have been caught.
Laughable to think that BRICS militaries will be able to destroy emerging non-state groups like ISIS, etc, especially in the context of this “infrastructure corridor” that hasn’t even been built yet. If BRICS wants to form an alliance against non-state groups, they would have to dedicate most if not all of their military assets to infrastructure protection, and even then that wouldn’t be enough.
It’s unknown what non-state groups want with BRICS, but it would be relatively easy for them to unravel the BRICS alliance through routine attacks on existing infrastructure. If they’re doing it right, they would be able to create permanent cascades of failure in any network of their choosing, keeping BRICS permanently off balance, if not totally annihilated. Recently this is what the Yemen resistance did to the corrupt regime, if you’ll recall. Export pipelines and terminals bombed, main transmission towers toppled. Shortly after, the American puppet government ran away. So, too, will it be with the BRICS, or at least the potential is there and probably always will be there. No amount of oppressive nation state enthusiasm will change this.
BRICS is economic, not military. No major nation wants military alliance.
BRICS how has a bank, New Development Bank (formerly BRICS bank).
BRICS is going to have BRICS universities (following the China-Russia synergy model).
BRICS will expand with other Latin American and African and Asian nations eventually developing to scale and influence.
What matters is how they take the best of each civilization (not ideologies and left-over garbage from the West).
Whole new generations are looking up at the global leadership and see only Putin and Xi and their excellences. If Modi raises his game above provincial and really forces change upon Indian bureaucracy and 19th century practices, he will be revered.
We are actually seeing more flexibility in old USSR-style autocrats like in Lukashenko in Belarus and Nazarbayev in Kazahkstan than in “democratic” leaders. They see the huge future led by Russia and China.
The elevator UP is waiting for a few more passengers. (India, especially).
Everyone left behind are going DOWN.
And you can easily see who are on the down queue. They are talking war, raving about their military and spending themselves into debtors’ prison (NATO nations and the lunatic nationalists, Japan, Ukraine, and maybe, India if it thinks China is an enemy and Pakistan has to be defeated.)
Pakistan will be controlled through China and Russia pressure. They will not allow Pakistan to wage war against India. And terrorism will be diminished once all are on board SCO.
Big picture, India. Look at the big picture.
Here it is Sanjay. I totally agree with you. And I could say with almost certainty that India would be alongwith RC. Even some Anglos are there in India, still India is India. It would take care of these Zionist. Some more later…
Your own comments expose that you acknowledge that it is Pakistan that wages war on India and exports terrorism to India. Your words:
And you expect a major state like India to, like a beggar, rely on other countries to ensure their security vis-a-vis Pakistani exported terrorism? Do you even realize how patronizing that sounds (even to Pakistanis, let alone India)? Do you realize how absurd it is to put your security needs in the hands of 3rd country like some vassal state?
I’m sorry Larchmonter, but India is run by people far more qualified than you to make decisions on behalf of the Indian people. In addition, they have far more knowledge and experience on dealing with Pakistan and other it’s non-state actors that you do. They are privy to human intelligence that you do not have access to, they understand Pakistani psychology far better than you, they understand the culture and language intimately.
Here’s some facts that you seem not to understand:
-Indian is not concerned about Pakistan waging an overt war, because the Indian military can destroy the Pakistani military decisively or any offensive force the Pakistanis field (this for the first time being openly acknowledged by Pakistani Generals on their own News channels – something that was unheard of in the past). And a Pakistani Nuclear threat will not deter India under such conditions as India proved in the Kargil war. It did not deter Indian forces from destroying Pakistani army troops invading into India’s Kargil region of Kashmir. Pakistan understands that the nuclear option is only useful against an Indian invasion, but provides zero protection if Pakistan invades Indian territory. So India does not need the “help” of any 3rd party to handle Pakistan in a conventional war.
-India is concerned about the “proxy” covert war (i.e. islamic terrorism) exported from Pakistan – if you think that Russia or China can stop this then you need to read the rest of these bullet points.
-No power entity in Pakistan is in full control of that territory
-The civilian PM is not the apex leader of the country, he is “a” leader within the power-structure of the country
-The Pakistani Army-Chief-of-Staff is not the Apex leader of the country; he does not fully hold the reigns of power either (ask any Pakistani officer how safe it is for him in the NWFP or Waziristan)
-The ISI is a state within a state and is not fully in control of the Chief of the ISI!
-The ISI is heavily infiltrated and influenced by British black-ops and other Western intelligence elements.
-Even Saudi Arabia does not have full influence over Pakistani Islamist Terrorists.
-The Narco-Oligarches are a state onto themselves
-The Pakistani Officer Corps find it profitable to have constant friction with India (they live in Mansions thanks to embezzling military aid dollars into their personal pockets) – they also control a big chunk of the Pakistani economy
-The People of Baluchistan (largest province of Pakistan) want to secede.
-The People of Sind want to secede.
-The People of the NWFP & Waziristan (i.e. the Pathan/Pakhtoons) want to secede.
-The People of Pakistani Kashmir also want to out.
If Pakistan itself cannot stop terrorism against itself let alone India (even it wanted to), how in the H*ll is China or Russia going to insure that Pakistan (by pressuring them? ????) to do the same? You just don’t have even a rudiment of the facts.
-China has not been able to ensure the safety of it’s own citizens in Pakistan (key Chinese engineers and technical people have been killed)
-China cannot even get Pakistan to stop the flow of terrorists and weapons from Pakistan into China (Xinjiang), how pray-tell are they going to stop Pakistani terrorism directed at India?
Why is it that Pakistan has not stopped the flow of Uigur “terrorists” into China? (it’s not for lack of effort! Because the Pakistani military has tried) It’s because they lack the ability, because wahabist elements in Pakistani security (the ISI) sabotage the State’s will. So you’ll have to excuse the Indians for not subscribing to the scenario you paint.
The Indians are looking at the big picture, they live there.
Ad hominems removed. Please just discuss the topic. Avoid lecturing other commenters and please don’t use a condescending tone of voice.
Anonymous, if you have personal knowledge about a situation, it is useful to mention it, so people know where you’re coming from. (Also use a consistent name so they recognise you next time). Then rather than lecture people about their ignorance and other shortcomings, EDUCATE all of us by explaining how YOU see the situation. Keep to the topic. Spread the knowledge. Put good links for further reading. Explain one pivotal incident rather than give 10 bullet points, which perhaps mean little to people not close to the events. One of the things this blog is about is unravelling how we “know” what we think we know (but are wrong about). Clearly not having the full story is part of the problem, but as each of us brings in extra information it will be accepted only if we are not hostile about it. Isn’t there too much hostility in the world already?
I sense that there are many trolls here trying to jin-up hostility between your Indian and Chinese readership (I’ve seen this before on other boards). I mean seriously, do we all have engage in group think and overlook china’s foreign policy flaws and attribute Indian concerns to a paranoid canard that the writer of the article is an “Anglo-Zionist”. It’s terrible, and I’m sure it’s contrary to what your site intends.
It sad because Saker or a member of his team did a praiseworthy thing and chose to publish the article of a compatriot soul (Sandhya Jain) who is an Indian Sovereignist, a person with religious conviction and apparently someone who believes in the BRICs and the RIC – i.e. she sees the big picture – she’s just the type of person the BBC would censor. You guys did a great job and yet we see such insane paranoid commentary and accusations of belonging to an “Anglo-Zionist” cabal because she dared outline differences between India’s view and the Chinese narrative.
Sorry one final point,
I just noticed your comment on the 10 bullet points. I wouldn’t change that for the world, each point is salient to the picture I’m trying to draw, each one of those points can be googled to verify whether I’m blowing smoke or telling the truth. Providing a single point and attached article would not serve the purpose I was trying to achieve, which is to show the huge number of forces destabilizing Pakistan and the region. Much of this knowledge something non-Indians are not privy to and comes from personal experience, from observing statements from Pakistani or Indian military, intelligence or political personnel (in their native language) and from hard research over the years.
I believe that I bring knowledge to the table here that the rest of your readership may not be privy to (for language, historical and cultural reasons). Did you know how disorganized and constrained the Pakistani establishment is before my comment? Did you know the details? Do you understand that this means that Pakistan is the weak link in the chain for the idealists here that think you can suddenly bring this country into the Eurasian fold and the SCO? Who in their right mind would think of integrating the current Banderastan Ukraine into the SCO? Nobody! That could only be considered after a complete de-Nazification of Ukraine. Similarly how can Pakistan, whose equivalent of Nazis, the Sunni Islamists, who are still proud and unrepentant of the genocide they unleashed on Bangladesh and the murderous terrorism they hurled at India, Iran, Afghanistan (Taliban) and other parts of the world, how can Pakistan be integrated into any union without an equivalent de-wahabization? The double-standards are mind-blowing when I see idealists turn a blind eye to Pakistan’s genocidal past (by the way Larchmonter knows about Pakistans actions in Bangladesh, I seen previous posts between him and Uncle Bob) and yet these same idealists scream to high heaven at Ukraine’s OUN glorifiers.
Actually the people of Kashmir want out of India. If put to a referendum they would have voted 90%+ long ago to secede from India.
It’s true Pakistan is divided. Sind and Balochistan do have separatists, but so far the majority are OK with the national structure. You know where else is deeply divided? India. Big time.
There will be no conventional war between India and Pakistan. The estimates floating around are Pakistan with 100 to 150 nuclear weapons. Actually that estimate is low. With number of centrifuges they have been operating 24/7 since the late 90s there is easily enough fissile material for over 500 nukes. In fact the CIA was publicly wringing their hands in despair that Pakistan had a net nuclear advantage over India. Any kind of conventional war would eventually involve tactical nuclear wealons. With the 2 countries actually bordering each other we’re talking seconds between a nuclear retaliation and not minutes as with the US and Russia.
Pakistan attacking India? Are you serious? With 10:1 population disadvantage this has never been an option for Pakistan. Those nukes they have are meant to be the ultimate defence against Indian aggression. In Kargil India still wasn’t certain about Pakistan’s nuclear capability.
You have to laugh when you hear pretensions of greatness coming from India. Half of India takes a shit in the open – it leads the world in lack of basic indoor plumbing. You can’t be a superpower while you’re feet are stuck in shit. The roads and infrastructure are pathetic. Corruption is simply totally out of control, with bureaucrats having the kind of outlaw power that would make Cuba green with envy. Getting water is more of a mining operation with groundwater falling well past the point of no return. Of course I suppose there’s always the Ganges:
“I recall taking a rowboat on the Ganges River at the holy city of Varanasi (or Benares), watching people drinking the water, washing clothes, gargling, and dumping remains of bodies burned on its banks. The brown waters were filled with human fecal waste and dead animals. How the 500 million Indians that rely on the Ganges can survive its toxins is one of Mother India’s deepest mysteries.”
Build some damn roads and toilets and find some water, and lay off your neighbours, especially the ones with the ability to turn India into an ashtray.
@Anonymous May 19, 2015 5:04 am
Listen Zaid Hamid,
Prove your assertions otherwise your statements are just worthless. Where is your poll that proves that Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan? Laughable since they can see what a mess Pakistan is.
Prove your figures about Pakistani nuclear capability, you can’t. Now lets looks at the puny number of Pakistani nuclear facilities and we can draw our own conclusions. Secondly Pakistan only has low yield gun-type primitive Uranium based devices, you can only live in whatever fantasy you want, the Science doesn’t back you. The idea of Pakistan possessing more nukes than China, or France or Britain, let alone India with it’s breeder reactors and scores of Nuclear power plants is so laughable that it’s pathetic. Pakistan doesn’t have the GDP and budget to maintain and secure so many nukes let alone build them; neither China nor the US would permit Pakistan to build such a large arsenal (even if they had the capability, which they don’t).
Pakistani journalists don’t agree with you either, here are numerous examples:
Here’s a pakistani news report about how India is adding 60 times the power capacity than Pakistan is trying add:
Here’s another report from Pakistani Journalists outlining huge yearly capital inflows into India from Sunni muslim gulf arab states based on world bank figures:
$12 Billion from the UAE
$10.5 Billion from Saudi arabia
$ 4.75 Billion from Kuwait
and even $4.7 Billion from Pakistan into India (how embarrasing for extreme nationalists in Pakistan):
I’m sure you understand Urdu so here’s the proof from your own journalists.
Here’s another well respected (bald with a beard: Salaafist?) Pakistani journalist describing the utter hopelessness of Pakistan even trying to engage India in military conflict:
Yes I am serious, because one can never underestimate the stupidity of the Pakistani Juntas that actually did attack India: In 1965 (Pakistan attacked India and was defeated), in 1971 (Pakistan started the war by bombing Indian airfields and then got decisively defeated, 90,000 PoWs captured by India), in 1998, Pakistan attacked, Pakistan driven back and defeated. This can all be verified it’s historical fact. Your ignorance is stunning but not surprising.
And your open racism, contempt and self-hatred is amusing.
Are you sure you’re not describing Karachi? Or perhaps 19th century London and the river Thames what with all its typhus and cholera outbreaks? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_outbreak) my my, the capital of a great empire had this:
Perhaps the British too should have taken your bombastic advice to focus on dam and toilette building rather than industrializing.
As for the rest of your sour grapes, again laughable; India has surpassed China as the fastest growing major economy in the world.
I’m glad the Chinese leadership is not as stupid as some of the detractors that choose to blind themselves to the obvious fact that India is rising, which is why they are investing more in India than in Pakistan or major Western economies.
Here’s what state media thinks (CCTV in English):
The Chinese openly admit India is rising and seek ways to engage with India. Here’s a report that gives the facts about India’s rise and its problems. Despite a Chinese propaganda spin, they still agreed that India’s rise is inevitable:
No but please! Keep underestimating India, it’s better that way, I encourage you to stay ignorant if the facts are too painful and make you uncomfortable.
First of all I’m not Zaid or whomever. I’m not Pakistani and frankly couldn’t give a damn about either India or Pakistan. I’m Canadian.
I never said Kashmir would want to join Pakistan. They certainly don’t want to be part India and don’t like being occupied by India.
You want laughable and pathetic? How about your ability to do a basic search on Wikipedia or Google:
Oh and most of their nukes are of the plutonium kind, and not uranium. Many are even spiked with tritium so that they have 300-400% more yield than your typical plutonium warhead. You’re so out of touch I actually feel badly about pissing on your fantasy.
What would you know about how much it takes to build and maintain nuclear weapons? What do you know about what the US or China would or wouldn’t tolerate, or even could tolerate? China helped Pakistan with it’s bomb, did you know that? Clearly you know little about science, since the first order of business is what reality actually is and not which ideas are “laughable”. Nobody cares about which ideas you find laughable especially when you’re the one with your head up your ass.
I don’t see what a few rather dubious figures on capital flows to and from the Middle East have to do with Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. I also don’t care much for India’s building a bunch of power plants. Good for them, maybe they can install some pumps now.
As for the charge of open racism, contempt and self-hatred, I didn’t actually write that stuff – I quoted this article from Eric Margolis because he sums it up well. He’s a well known and respectable journalist.
There’s nothing amusing about food poisoning. Have you ever even been to India? Or Pakistan? Clearly you haven’t, or maybe you’re just a nationalist Indian shill. I have. Karachi is nothing to crow about as big cities go, but at least the air wasn’t pervaded with the smell of shit and piss everywhere and I didn’t get sick, which unfortunately was not the case in either Bombay or Calcutta. And this was staying in 5-star hotels and working on projects with India’s largest petrochemical company.
As for the British, London in the 19th century would have been a dream compared to any Indian city today. Everyone had access to water and some kind of indoor plumbing. 70% of India does not. Back then no-one understood how cholera was transmitted but after the outbreak they figured it out and made sanitation a priority. There’s no excuse for India. They’ve NEVER done anything about it in spite of all this knowledge being available for over a century.
I’m not surprised India’s economy is growing quickly, because it’s easy to grow from nothing. They have a long way to go and none of the infrastructure to do it. Just one province in China has more industrial capacity than India. There is simply no comparing the two countries. Traveling and staying in major Chinese cities is almost on par with the west. India by comparison is a shit-hole. The roads are a crumbling overcrowded mess with every kind of animal, car, bike, rickshaw, truck all going in every different directions. People defecating in the open is the norm.
I’m not saying the mentality in Pakistan is much better. The thing is that the problem is 10 times more dense in India. Plus the fact that in Pakistan it’s not considered normal to poop in public.
You claim to be Canadian and therefore don’t have a clue about the language the culture the history, the technological capacities, the industrial capacity and the geopolitics of that region. And I’m supposed to take your unqualified assertions seriously? No, my dear Zaid Hamid, nothing that you say is believable including your claim of being Canadian.
You say don’t even know who Zaid Hamid is and you actually think you know whats going on over there? The jokes on you my pedantic friend. ROFL.
You obviously have no background in science or lack competence in that field. Pakistan does not have plutonium based devices nor does it have the industrial base to produce the number of weapons you claim. I have be honest with you: I did not the rest of your screed because it would be waste of time.
If you want to believe that Pakistan has a nuclear arsenal larger than France’s or China’s or India’s then I encourage you to believe that and any other conspiracy theory you wish to believe.
Please share more of your vile closet hatred and resentment of India while you go begging there for business; at some point it will catch up with up you. Like I said, I enjoy it when people like you expose your true nature, it’ll be useful in the future.
Indian chauvinists are soooo funny. India growing faster than China? In your dreams, matey. And the Kashmiris, languishing under a brutal occupation even more violent than that of Israel (India’s mate in Islamophobia and instructor in the dark arts of repressing large civilian, Islamic, populations)do, indeed, wish to be rid of their Indian oppressors, and to deny that is simply despicable.
Go read and weep the facts I laid out about Indian GDP growth in my response to you in the GINI index thread below.
Given the level of contempt (self-loathing) and immaturity you exhibit towards India any sympathy you claim to have for India’s poor and destitute has no further credibility.
The Ganga is a mystery. However we do know that it is full of bacteriophagic viruses and contains vastly more suspended oxygen that any other great river on Earth. For centuries English boats replenished their water supplies from water from the Ganga because it stayed fresh so much longer.
BRICS two primary trade exchanges already are weapons, particularly Russian ones that are designed to make the already useless US military worse than useless. So the content of this economic alliance is already weapons and will be much more so. There is no nation state that is trying to escape the sphere of the Americans that won’t want Russian weapons.
The other trade will be everything energy related, obviously primary to weapons. The problem BRICS faces is that none of this infrastructure has been built yet, so it is all just an idea. There will be inevitable cost overruns, and there will be even more egregious land grabs (Nicaragua canal) required to form interconnected infrastructure. BRICS is bound to create enemies in addition to an already considerable number of people who have been forced off their land into the nearest destitute slum.
The Americans will no doubt collapse and probably be extinct, especially when their shale oil scam reaches maximum payback, probably starting in months. BRICS may exist for a short while but they will eventually collapse in short order.
The conflict of this century is between non state and nation states. Non state groups have become an extremely difficult, if not impossible task for nation states to completely destroy or supress. They are also easily able to destroy, severely wound, or cannibalize nation states. MEND, ISIS, Boko Haram, Houtis have proven this. The attempt for BRICS to establish their plan will create similar non state groups with similar destructive capablities, with or without American instigation.
You need to understand, no one should control any one else. One can give incentive, but the ultimate decision is up to the individual. If you want lasting friendship, be sincere, be respectful, be humble are most important elements. If you read comments around, your will find out Pakistani comments are very reasonable, and very level headed. I am proud to have them as our best friend.
CPEC hopefully will help Pakistan on its way to prosperity. Hope it can help the government stay united,and stable, so investment can pour in to give every Pakistani a chance to peace and prosperity. Here is a detailed map and plan for road and power plants. Industrial centers is to be decided. http://tribune.com.pk/story/887949/china-pakistan-economic-corridor-lines-of-development-not-lines-of-divide/
Here is Chinese Ambassador Sun Weidong called on Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Chief Minister Pervez Khattak in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa House on Saturday and discussed with him matters of mutual interest.(include education): http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/national/17-May-2015/khattak-praises-china-for-socio-economic-development-of-pakistan
Pakistan government are united, and I hope they can pull this off, and give everyone a decent living, including those in far away tribal areas.
Anonymous saying this, Anonymous answering that, Anonymous replying back… What the hell ?!
Please, give yourselves at least screen-names, friends. Because the discussion is very interesting :-)
If it works for 4chan it can work here, too.
I agree with a few other commenters, there is some amount of what I called “anglo-philic” views in the post when it comes to China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc. But it is to be expected, after all, large majority of Indians have been influenced and educated via “English” – including, of course, Western media, and it is frequently beyond most people to resist throwing or hinting dirt at others.
However, if we look past this short-coming, it should be able to conclude that it will be good for China, India, Pakistan etc to look beyond petty squabbles and build win-win situations instead of winner take all type mindsets!
Those are all proWestern sites.
The article as an example of Indian nationalist opinion on their relations with China.and clearly shows the inroads the Empire is making in India.The real facts are that in the near future the multi-polar world is coming. In that world the cooperation between China-Russia-and India will be very important to help sustain it.Without India,if India so chooses,the multi-polar world will still come to be.But they will be left out of the shaping of it,a true tragedy for India.
The territorial issues are very complicated.In the article we see the Indian nationalist view of them.But that is far from the only view.We can at once discount any words of the Dalai Lama on the subject.He is a stooge bought by the Empire many years ago.Historically the North East regions of today’s India have been part of Tibet.The fact that the native population has for many,many,centuries been of Tibetan ethnicity should show that fact plainly.During China’s time of weakness the British seized the area and made it part of the “Raj”.Concerning Kashmir,that is even more complicated.Two-thirds and more of the population was Muslim at the time of the partition (one of the first modern Western crimes against India).Referendum would have delivered that area to Pakistan,and both India and Pakistan know/knew that.Which is why India has always rejected that idea.While Pakistan was/is too weak to force them.So,we are left today with terrorism,and the threat of a Pako-Indian War constantly staring us in the face.
India makes a tragic error in not attempting to draw Pakistan,Bangladesh,and the rest of the sub-continent into a economic union with her.Settling her disputes with China (possibly on the basis of “we both keep what we have”) would be a good first step.Second needs to be solving the Kashmir issue.Letting them have a referendum, an independent state,or an autonomous republic,are several ideas to think about.But whichever way they can resolve it would relieve the constant threat of war between those states,and allow cooperation on economic issues they both need.
India and China taken together, account for around a third of the Worlds total population.That is a huge chunk of potential economic power in the World.Used for development and improving the lives of their peoples,would be the right thing.But wasting it on un-winnable disputes between them is the wrong thing.Taking the navy issue as an example.Common sense should show them that China’s navy should concentrate on security in the Western Pacific region,aided by the Russian navy the further North they go.While India’s navy should (aided by Iran’s) concentrate on the Indian Ocean and its Islands.
I’d like to see the two cooperate in the new World being built.But unless India can control their nationalism, that can’t happen,and India will become prey to the Empire’s destabilization campaigns.The Empire already is terrified of a rising China.They will do whatever they can to prevent an economically rising India as well.
Very well said! It is only my opinion, but when conversing with Indian friends and acquaintances, it seems to me too many Indians find it difficult to “get past” their past border war with China in 1962, when they got trounced. Fact is it is very possible to get past border wars behind them – China and Russia did it already, despite a border war in the early 1970s…. They just need to have a will, and ignore all the people with strong nationalistic predeposition.
You’re right Alan,
It’s very possible to get past border wars behind them, like China and Russia did despite a border war in the 1970s when China got “trounced”:
Sino-Soviet border conflict of 1969 it was:
800 chinese dead to 92 soviet kia.
In the Sino-India border conflict of 1962 it was:
722 Chinese kia vs 1362 Indian kia.
Yes the Indians got about as trounced as the Chinese did against Russia. Strange that I don’t see Russian readers here gloating about the death of 800 Chinese soldiers and gleefully using terms like “trounced”, so why would you, an overseas chinese, use such charged language? Does the death of 1362 Indian soldiers along with 722 Chinese soldiers sound like something to boast about? Or is it just obnoxious jingoism?
Does that help bring the issue to a close? Or does it serve to the opposite?
India already has a substantial and rapidly expanding Navy (Blue-water) and has bases, listening posts and refueling facilities in several littoral nations of the Indian Ocean:
-Madagascar (Naval base, Radar, and Intelligence Listening post)
and Mauritius (more bases are scheduled to be built including in the Maldives). Not mention the huge naval bases they have on both India’s Western and Eastern coasts.
They already have launched their own nuclear submarine (undergoing sea trials) – to carry nuclear ICBMs, 5 more are scheduled to be built. They have a Nuclear powered Russian attack submarine (on lease) mainly to give operational experience to Indian submariners and technical crew on running nuclear submarines. They have 2 full-sized aircraft carriers (one operational), the other under going trials and fittings; 2 to 4 more aircraft carriers are scheduled to be built. They have scores of modern destroyers, frigates and cruisers.
Iran’s navy is tiny consisting mainly of coastal boats; their main strength lies in their ability to close the Straights of Hormuz. Iran’s real power lies in their influence throughout the middle-east and central asia; here Iran shines, but as a naval power, it’s limited to the straights of Hormuz.
I beg to differ but that is not true. India has many times lobbied Pakistan to openly trade with her, it is Pakistan, out religious hatred (of some in their power establishment) that has spurn Indian overtures. India has unilaterally granted Pakistan “most-favored nation status” in 1996, but Pakistan has even now not reciprocated. See this report:
This is despite the best efforts of PM Nawaz Sharif whose family owns some of Pakistan’s biggest sugar mills – India is world’s largest consumer of sugar and was willing to pay serious money to import this commodity from Pakistan. There are huge volumes of goods that India would import from Pakistan if their government could finally throw the salafist and wahabist obstructionists under the bus. Perhaps this year it’ll happen. (Sort of reminds you of the type of brainwashed nuts in Western Ukraine, burning their exports to Russia for idiotological reasons, doesn’t it?)
As it is, Pakistani television reports that Pakistan has yearly $4.7 Billion in trade deficit to India (i.e. net capital flow into India). This probable due to Indian exports that enter Pakistan via Dubai. Due to Pakistani “official” unwillingness to sell “openly” to India, the Pakistani trade deficit continues to grow.
It is interesting to see an Indian perspective on all this, but take it with quite a bit of salt. All the bits sprinkled in about how awesome Modi is . . . that’s far from a universal opinion, even in India.
Modi is a Hindu-supremacist bastard and a US/multinational corporation buttkisser. He’s squarely behind the billionaires, local Indian and transnational, at the expense both of the Indian poor (ie the majority of the Indian people) and of real, broad-based economic development. The Indian elite generally are very parasitic, a bunch of compradors taking their cut from the likes of Monsanto in return for helping them bleed the farmers dry and plunder the resources. Not for them to care that as the economy “grows” the depth of poverty keeps getting worse (if you can even imagine that in India) and tens of thousands of farmers drink pesticide, suiciding because they’ve been put in hock to agribusiness monopolists and bloodsucking moneylenders.
I really wonder how long India can stay stable. China’s economic growth has been accompanied by serious dislocations and a lot of sweatshop labour, but it has seen some sharing of the wealth; there has been gradual increase in wages, some broader prosperity, the beginnings of a middle class. So while there may be problems, big problems even, and a good deal of unrest and potential for more, overall there is at least some attention to the people’s needs. India has just seen an ever more stark divide between the haves and have-nots, with a “middle class” representing the thinnest of crusts over a mass of ever-increasing misery, with the filthy-rich oligarchs less an upper crust and more a tiny sprinkling of some noxious seasoning. There’s already insurgencies in some provinces and I see every reason for them to grow.
Here we go again!
You go into a ridiculous vicious diatribe about the Indian elite being parasites . Finally you end with a total non-fact based screed that China is more economically egalitarian than India.
Here are the facts:
India’s GINI index 33
China’s GINI index 37 (based on figures provided by the Chinese Govt)
The lower the number the greater the economic equality. The higher the number the greater the economic inequality. China’s inequality number is currently higher.
So much for your screed about China’s elite spreading the wealth around more than India. The inequality in China, right now, is higher than India’s. Hopeful both countries will work hard to improve this situation and not engage in the revolting extreme wealth inequality we see developing in the US and the EU.
I get the feeling you’re some kind of a troll trying to get Indian so say negative things about the Chinese and vis-versa. So I’m not going to engage in that kind of a moronic game of denigrating an entire class of people.
I think the Chinese are a wonderful people and I think their government has done fantastic things on the economic front to bring the Chinese people to higher standard of living. I also think that the Indians will do extremely well in the coming decades and pull-off economic miracle of their own (because I know my people well). It’s seems President Xi agrees which is why he’s investing tens of billions of dollars in Indian Projects. Try to get a handle on that fact.
Having been a frequent visitor to both countries since the very early ’90s, I have a decent sized hill’s worth of experience in India, and a small mountain’s worth of experience in China. My memory is that they were about equal in development 25 yrs ago, though I gave a nod to India as being the wealthier and better developed of the two at the time. Since then, India has visibly stagnated or even gone backwards on almost every visible measure, while China’s development got on a horse and went over the horizon. The refrain I heard in business/elite circles 25 yrs ago was “India is rising”. Today, one hears “We have to catch up to China” from those same circles. As then, the speakers seem unaware of the incalculable social, cultural and political obstacles in their path.
Your beloved GINI indices are calculated on wealth/income differentials, so they necessarily do not account for China’s massive lift of living standards for the vast majority of Chinese. Of course, the lowest did not rise as far as the those who became unnaturally wealthy, but it is plain to this observer of both that China’s widespread deep poverty of the early 90s has largely vanished, while India’s has visibly grown. The mud hut farming villages I knew in ’90s China are unrecognizable today, and not just in pockets here and there, but across vast swaths of China. I regularly travel cross-country by hi-speed rail and the differences to be seen in farming communities and small towns/cities across China from the train window is staggering. It ain’t just because I’m sitting in a 21st century marvel that is itself a century ahead of the trains I rode 25 yrs ago, the differences are just as staggering when I travel the regular, relatively slow, overnight sleepers.
As for this article, it is clearly written from the perspective of the Indian middle-upper classes who generally pay little more than a passing glance at the misery which surrounds them. Underneath that lies a deep seated caste-based arrogance that, IMHO, is the socio-political basis behind the great gulf that has opened between China’s and India’s development. If India is to develop as you say, it will have to await the rise of a new generation(s) of egalitarian elites that reject India’s social & political order. I’m not holding my breath.
China’s interest in India, just like its interest in Pakistan, is primarily geo-strategic. Like Russia and the Ukraine, no-one wants misery on their doorstep simply because its companion, mischief is bound to be close by. More importantly, Xi’s Maritime Silk Road and other initiatives require stability and cooperation across the Indian Ocean and the sub-continent. It sees America’s overtures to India as disruptive to those goals and needs / wants India to be able to withstand the America’s blandishments. It is likely that Xi’s cheque book diplomacy is the best course, but the fact is there’s little else that China can bring to bear at this time. He has his work cut out for him with India’s Anglophile elites.
Frankly, I have my doubts that China’s goals will be met in India, and hence the disproportionate focus on Pakistan. There’s no question but that both are a great challenge for the Eurasianists.
Clearly I can’t take seriously your boast that you know anything about India since your posting is full of logical fallacies and incorrect information regarding India.
As an example, the GINI index describes income inequality, and based on China’s own figures there is greater income inequality in China than India. Trying to change the subject (by talking about aggregate numbers) isn’t going change the facts that I outlined. Your point is irrelevant to my original point and unrelated. This is an example of your logical fallacy.
Your not-so-humble opinions don’t correspond with the actual facts on the ground and the economic data (i.e. non-subjective numbers); Indians cannot be worse off than 20 years ago because their per capita GDP and income is up 4 fold, that coupled with the more egalitarian Indian GINI index completely contradicts your so-called humble opinion. This an example of your incorrect information.
I’m sure you’re really sincere about wanting India to enter the Eurasian union, since insulting and bald-faced contempt towards an entire people is a great way to show your sincere desire to join in an alliance with those people.
I really enjoy it when people make the mistake of exposing their true contempt, resentment, bigotry and hatred for India and it’s people, because that is going to prove very useful in the future.
The UN declared that 110% of the global reduction in poverty during the 2000 to 2009 decade occurred in China. 110% because while China surged, other countries, particularly in ‘south Asia’ went backwards.
Trying to change the subject and not addressing the facts proven in the post you’re responding to is sad and poor form.
Pakistan’s economic performance has degraded terribly over the last decade, that would explain any drop in performance in South Asia (along with both Nepals and Sri-Lankas civil wars). India’s GDP has been growing over 7.7% on average despite the mismanagement of its inept governments.
Here the facts that anti-Indian banderites don’t like to deal with:
GDP growth rates (%) for India from 2005-2014
9.3 9.3 9.8 3.9 8.5 10.3 6.6 5.1 6.9 7.4
The projected rate for this year 2015 is 7.5%. According to quarterly numbers, India is on track to meet this number.
China’s officially posted projection is 7% for 2015. Quarterly Chinese numbers back this projection.
Sour grapes from India’s detractors is amusing.
“…Indians cannot be worse off than 20 years ago because their per capita GDP and income is up 4 fold…”
This statement shows that either you have no idea of what GDP / capita is or how it’s calculated, or are simply not being serious. As MM points out, increasing poverty in the face of increasing GDP/capita is not only possible, the UN says it actually happened. My point was simply that this development is tragically visible. Amusing or not, “sour grapes” plays no role in this unfolding human tragedy.
A similar statement can be made about what you read as my “bigotry”.
It is you who is who has no idea about GDP and per capita income (as you accuse me) nor apparently logic and mathematics. It is you who could not put together/deductively reason that if the income distribution of India is flatter than China’s and the income has gone up 4 fold then it follows that poverty in India could not have increased in the last 15 years but decreased.
This is fairly obvious logic and the fact that you couldn’t see it only reinforces my view that your views are colored by ignorance and pre-judgement.
Your opinions are not backed up by any objective data. Here are the numbers:
The world Bank stats show that India made the largest contribution to global poverty reduction between 2008-2011. India lifted 140 million people out of extreme poverty. Here’s the link:
Is that performance good enough? No! But it is in direct contradiction with your opinions. Opinions that are not only based on ignorance, but ones that are also disrespectful to the hardworking people in the Indian system that work day and night to better the lot of the poor despite ineptness of the last government that was made up some of the worst sellouts you can imagine.
I believe around 90% of China’s water from rivers come from the Tibetan plateau.
Would you let another power be in control of that region?
Imagine if another country wanted control over 90% of Amercia’s water supply – it just ain’t gonna happen
Also, from a strategic military viewpoint, would you let that high-ground be controlled by another power, in particular the US.
Finally, China’s historical claim to Tibet has far more legs that any of the European powers, in particular Britain’s, claim to any country they invaded and annexed under the guise of colonialism.
I am interested in the negative slant this article takes towards China. The Article is a great read and very informative, but there is a lot of angst towards China which will have to be resolved as it leaves a gap (I was going to write ‘chink’, but decided it was probably un-pc) the anglo/zionists will exploit.
The pro-Western Indian elites, particularly those influenced by the overseas Indians in the USA, are often quite amusing in their attempts to insinuate themselves with the Westerners who treated their people so well during the Imperialist occupation of India. As for poverty in India, anyone who has visited that magical land knows that the squalor of life, particularly in the urban slums, is nowhere replicated in China any longer. The Indian elite based on class and caste privilege, does not give a toss. I wish the Indian masses well, but they’ll need a revolution before anything much changes.
India has its own interests, and will seek to advance them. In being proud and independent, India is somewhat similar to the France of Charles de Gaulle.
In many technological areas, India is ahead of China. I recommend that anyone interested in this issue study the development/performance of the Su-30 MKI (the Indian variant of the Su-30) versus the development/performance of the J-11B (the illegal Chinese copy of the Su-27).
The views expressed in this article are, unfortunately, rather typical of the Indian elites and middle classes. India sees its place under the sun in an anglo-centric world, its elites aspire to great power status under the protection of the US, and there seems to be little desire to end fences with China and Pakistan. There is no grand vision, no strategy to create a pan-Asian world, no dream of a better world. As the US prepares for war against China, it will enlist India in its anti-China fold, and Indians will serve as Gurkhas of the US empire much like the Nepalese Gurkhas served the British. Forget about any good thing for the world coming out of India. This, after all, is the land that created the caste system and whose Maharajah culture cannot see the abject poverty and misery of its masses. I speak the above with sadness, as this was the county of my birth.
The sad truth is, Chinese and Indian get along well in US, Our children even tighter. My daughter is studying with her Indian friend at Starbucks. Reading those comments, I have to remind myself my Indian friends and neighbors are not like that.
@anonymous who claims that India is his country of birth
So based on your logic nothing good can come out China because it had a cruel, totalitarian, supertitious, classist, and imperial past. And because it gave the world the 孙子兵法 (the ancient art of war), where war is deception and the world, especially the US war machine, has adopted this as a way to conduct international affairs.
Of course that’s as absurd as your line of reasoning regarding India. India is rising and there’s nothing its detractors can do about other than engage in sour-grapes.
After I turn away from Russian Ukraine conflicts, I have unwillingly stump into Indian commentators in various blogs, and To my surprise, they are very nationalistic and anti Chinese. If you do not believe me, read any Indian site with news about China, Pakistan.
India is actively contain China while at mean time hope for Chinese money.
It put a stop on Sri Lanka economical development because Chinese investment, and Chinese submarine made a stop or two there:
Here is what Modi’s government did to Sri Lanka: http://www.asiantribune.com/node/86828
Here is what India did after mass of Nepal earth quick: Open Letter To Dear Indian PM Mr.Narendra Modi Sir : Stop Indian Hegemony In Nepal
Here are their attitude toward Pakistan, read the comments section, this runs on almost all the indian publications, only broke briefly after $22 B bill signed on Saturday, or maybe every one in India was taking Saturday off. : http://www.firstpost.com/world/existential-threat-india-posed-chinas-pakistan-gambit-2226726.html
India provoked the sino-India war want to take advantage of Chinese internal problems at the time. but they cry walf: http://thediplomat.com/2014/03/indias-top-secret-1962-china-war-report-leaked/
while I was inside China, we all had good impression of India, and fond memory of their movies. But quite obviously, India has been preoccupied with China with different idea.
Reading its dealings with its small neighbors, and even with Russia, let along China, you can come to conclusion what kind of country India is.
Anonymous on May 19, 2015 · at 2:03 am UTC,
I would generally agree with you on what you have said about India.
India do want a hegemony over its neighbors in all aspects and does what it can to enforce a one. Countries like Sri Lanka, Maldives, Nepal, etc. are the worst effected by that. The main visible actions are in the economic front since commerce is the most important factor here. However, I have to be clear that India does not want to occupy these countries.
The main problem with doing commerce with india is, even though India needs every strategic development project to themselves, it is not a very efficient partner. Indian businesses are private owned and the Indian government can’t force them to make foreign investments. And the countries which are waiting for foreign investments can’t wait until India does things in its slow phase (which could still take years).
“India does not want to occupy these countries.” Nepalis do not agree with you. And Sri Lanka think India unleashed 30 year war on them.
Some one compiled a long list of territories annexed by india since 1947. If I can find it, I will post for your reading.
Anonymous on May 19, 2015 · at 6:21 am UTC,
” And Sri Lanka think India unleashed 30 year war on them.”
Majority of Sri Lankans do accept that as a fact. When SL became too close to US and anti-indian, India trained tamil militants in SL.
While that is that, Sri Lankans do not think India want to annex them (in the current situation). But if you are thinking that having a full economic hegemony is a pleasant thing then think again. Sri Lankans are not fond of India but have to accept its proximity and power.
“But if you are thinking that having a full economic hegemony is a pleasant thing then think again. “.
You are absolute correct. That is why China invest in our good, old friends Pakistan, who ere at our side even when we were penniless; and invest in Russia, Brazil, African countries, all of them are friends from government to their people, and appreciate Chinese investment in their economy. Those African countries has annual growth rate of more than 10%. Of cause there are a lot more countries over the world China invest without reservation.
I can see China and Iran are very close as well, and considering big investment there, and as soon as dust settles in Afghanistan, I can imagine China invest more than $10 billion already commit there. China values our neighbors and friends. But we also know money can not buy friendship. even worse, money can make some one your enemy. Look at what is happening in Ukraine after Russian gives billions. So we actually pick and choose where to invest. I think you know what I mean.:-)
“The Chinese leadership will therefore have to come to terms with the fact that Beijing is unlikely to enjoy the ‘sole superpower’ status that the United States briefly enjoyed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.”
This sentence seems to give the general view India takes on the Chinese world wide projects. If that is the case, then the article would give an accurate view on India’s take on things rather than just the writers view.
Also China Sri Lanka relations
Modi seems more in the BRICS camp but maintains ties with US as a bargaining chip with China.
I think the above article gives an idea of the “fears/concerns” of India. If those /fears concerns are right or wrong is not the point, it is a real concern of India and must be allowed for.
Truth is, Chinese do not care to be a super power. it just want trade, her people prosper. Why spend our people’s hard earn money, and our resource to play gods at far way place, and get shot, or cursed at. It is not economical what so ever.
That is my thoughts too, The thing is it seems the fears expressed in this article are real fears felt in India.
The thing is, how to reassure India that China is not looking to US type hegemony? Perhaps Russia will play a role in that?
I do not see there can be any productive out come. Modi just accused China doing what he is doing to China in his press conference with Chinese prime minister, while as a guest to China. They have issues to take care of before they can be anyone’s friend. There are alot of place to invest, a lot of people can be friends. China is investing 50 b in Brazil today.
There is NO sign of China seeking ‘global hegemony’. US foreign bases number more than one thousand. Chinese foreign bases equal zero. But, if you’re going to tell a lie, tell a Big One.
Both China and Russia have long been aware of the limits to empire the Americans are now so obligingly demonstrating for everyone. Global hegemony, even the creative American variant, is a poison chalice.
I would also say that while India sides with US against China, that does not mean India wants a heavy (or meaningful) US presence in south asia.
India needs US in its camp, but they don’t want US military/intelligence in south asian countries. So the so called US ‘pivot’ means us war ships patrolling the waters south of Sri Lanka, India would vehemently oppose it.
I agree w ur pt of indian fears of China. clearly, they haven’t gotten over the Sino-Indian War of the 1960s. They felt betrayed by the Chinese for “instigating” the war and was surprised by the speed of the Chinese victory over the indian forces.
however, indians were not told that it was their own gov’t that started the war in the 1st place w China (hence the files w regards to the war was “classified in india). this in turn has caused a self-inflicted wound w in the indian psyche as the the major political parties refuse to acknowledge they started the war in the first place. w the Congress party, they can’t admit to it as it would stain Nehru and the Ghandi familys’ legacy. w the BJP, it’s a useful tool to push their nationalistic and to a certain extent fascist views w in india…
Your critique of India regarding the 1962 screw-up is mainly correct. That skirmish was provoked by that Loud-mouth fool Anglo-phile Prime Minister Nehru. (Now accuse me of being a nationalist). The Congress Party totally misled the Indian public by heaping the blame entirely onto China, when, in fact, the Congress leadership were trying to cover-up the utter stupidity and incompetence of Nehru in handling that “created” crisis.
Zhou-en-lai or Mao’s description of Nehru as a 走狗 (running dog or lackey) of the West was a spot on and accurate description of that “man” (and I use the word man lightly in the context of Nehru). Indian military commanders in Naathu-la would radio back to their higher command, “are sure this is Indian territory? Because all the landmarks here have Chinese and Tibetan names. What exactly are we fighting for?” (Obviously they were fighting and dying for Nehru’s worthless and bombastic ego).
The above information has been kept from the general Indian public until recently, when BJP historians and like-minded Indian sovereignists have started exposing it to the public and media. So I would disagree with you that the BJP wants to use the issue as tool, since it is their ideologues that have been disseminating and exposing India’s culpability in that conflict.
Subsequent Congress led governments have inflamed this issue in the minds of the Indian public to such an extent that it has cause a serious distrust of China in the Indian public, while in China there is almost no anti-Indian feeling. Most Chinese that I’ve spoken to aren’t even aware of 1962 because it’s not played up on their media and such a small conflict is a drop in the bucket compared to what they went thru at the hands of Japan, and later in the Korean conflict. The Chinese (mainland Chinese) are sincerely nice people, I can’t emphasize that enough.
It is for this reason that the Chinese leadership do not play up their victory in that skirmish like some unthinking jingoistic morons because doing so is contrary to Chinese interests and plays right into the hands of those inside and outside of India that want an adversarial relationship between India and China.
1962 is a pathetic incident that both India and China should put behind them.
I agree wholeheartedly to what you say about the friendship that india and china could have (such huge potential), but unfortunately the indian public cannot let go of such historic fallacy. the mistrust didn’t come directly from the indian public as a whole, but more from the elite w in india. their western, if not british, education make themselves as the lords of india like the days of the british raj…
w regards to the BJP, I haven’t read up on them recently (I read of their former leader vajpayee and his very nationalistic hindu views), but if what you say is true, then modi will have a lot of issues to deal w inside and outside of his party. besides the general indian public who still reads the news of the indian elite…
Neville Maxwell’s ‘India’s China War’ was published in 1970, after which the truth was undeniable. Indian chauvinists, a sad and sorry tribe, have problems with reality.
How anglophilic of you to take word of that author as proof of what actually happened. Taking the personal testimony of the Indian officers involved along with direct Chinese accounts of the incident is a far more credible regarding what happened.
Without a doubt that malthusian socialist anglophile idiot, Nehru, provoked and mishandled that conflict.
Terrible article, and as others have said, unfortunately this is the reality of the English speaking middle and upper classes of India. A vast number of that nation has lost its way, and are denigrating into Anglo-Zio ways – both politically and culturally. It is an unfortunate truth. India wants to be a regional imperialist – not “multi-polar.”
They play cricket same as most ex British empire states.
The US pivot on Asia/China. Most countries in the coverage area only achieved independence from European empires after WWII. More to think about.
Somewhat typical Aryan Indian claptrap….India is lucky she has China as a friend….even when these titans fought in the 60’s and China marched to within 50 miles of Delhi China treated India as a wayward friend. The Indian is given to petulance, arrogance, and Agni messiah ism. She needs to change. And she needs to heal herself of her dispicable caste system. I like India. I hope she grows up. Soon.
Dear “Oh well”
Before you give other advise/hope that they grow up, perhaps you should follow your condescending advice first and let the Indians worry about their own affairs. It’s quite amusing to see someone who’s exhibiting as much (unfounded) arrogance as you, accuse an entire culture of arrogance, petulance, etc. (perhaps these are Freudian reflections?). Your slamming an entire race and culture with gross generalizations is divisive don’t help the discussion, instead it seeks to increase hostility.
Thanks for your sincere and really genuine concern for India, Indians and their caste system, I’m sure someone so transparently contemptuous of India has sincere concern for India’s well-being. I guess it’s common practice in whatever culture and theology you come from to insult and slander the people that you claim to like.
I would also add that it is China that would be lucky to have India as a friend and vice-versa.
It’s not ‘India’ that is pathetically groveling to a West that regards them with racist and civilizational contempt, and allowing itself to be used as tool against China. It is the corrupt but laughably chauvinistic Indian ruling class, heavily influenced by American-based overseas Indians. If China is ever ‘brought down’ India will be next cab off the rank.
Finally something I can agree with you on:
Yes that is correct, India is not allowing itself to be used as a tool against China neither is China allowing itself to be used as a tool either -Very Good observation from you! Yes and I agree with you that neither country is groveling before the West either – thanks for stating the obvious.
You should have added that the so-called “West” (their establishment) does not only have a racist and civilizational contempt for India and China (as well as Russia and everyone outside of the West), they also have civilizational and racist contempt against their own people and the societies of Europe.
As an Indian, my views may be biased. But if something I have learned in business and society, it is not difficult to for two rivals to continue without enmity provided they avoid a winner takes all approach. IMHO USA could have continued as sole super-power on Earth if Uncle Sam was willing to give some elbow space to emerging world (and more importantly) not interfere in some-one’s home. I am not feeling bad for Americans however, they had their chances.
For all the hoopla about Indian-Chinese rivalry, people may not have noted that there have been no armed conflict since 1962 (unlike between India and Pakistan) and both countries are doing trade and investment running in tens of billions of dollars and increasing.
This article is based upon a fundamental deceit: that India supports multipolarism.
While India may posture an advocate of multipolarism and join organizations like the SCO and BRICS, in practice, India is the Anglo-Zionist Empire’s Trojan Horse in Asia and BRICS in general.
In particular, the Anglo Zionists want to wean India away from Russia as a strategic ally, and more importantly, deploy it against China in the United States’ anti-Chinese containment policy (aka the Pivot to Asia).
In fact, how many people realize the Americans have already supplanted Russia as India’s leading arms supplier?
“India Emerges as Largest Foreign Customer of US Arms”
Of that India is aggressively developing its strategic and economic ties with Israel?
“Revealed: The India-Israel Axis”
“India 2014 Elections: Narendra Modi, Israel’s Best Friend In South Asia”
“India and Israel’s Secret Love Affair”
You can’t be for multipolarism if you are allies with the Anglo-Zionist Empire that is desperately clinging to its unipolar domination of the world.
“India, US boost military-strategic drive against China”
“India tilts still closer to Washington”
“India and US to further expand military-strategic ties”
It’s revealing that so many people adamantly claim to be opposed to the “Anglo-Zionist Empire” but they studiously ignore the reality that India is the Zionist Entity’s “best friend” in Asia—not to mention its increasing military connections with the American Empire of Chaos itself.
as I read the article more and more, it’s very clear that it’s an anti-China rant by the so called elites of india (I view this group as the indian bureaucracy, political and economic class, etc… those that still c themselves more with the british/us raj over the needs of india).
the author clearly is a strong proponent of india in the world, which is what I expect from anyone who loves their country. however, her arguments isn’t as coherent as it should and by using her anti-China rant to prove her case, only shows her poor judgement and poor understanding of world politics at the moment….
The hindustan times us a known angloamerican bottlicker like most english news media.
bwbecause americans want india to have enemity with china and vice versa these indian slaves of america have been barking against china.
india , my coubtry , can not be trusted because corrpt elite there is completely compromised .
india, russia china and iran gwrmany alliance will tear apaet nato and english deviaed western alliance.that is why evil uk/usa combo wants to prevent it.
russia instead pf protecting her allies un syria ormecedonia let them be attacked with impunity.
rusdia must cultivate the present freindship and alliance rather than planning for castle in thw air.
“The Chinese leadership will therefore have to come to terms with the fact that Beijing is unlikely to enjoy the ‘sole superpower’ status that the United States briefly enjoyed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991”
If that should happen, it would be considered job well done by the Chinese. The Bejing’s goal of a multi-polar world would have been realized. Kicking out the Yanks as the “sole superpower” has always been Beijing’s plan.
Coming from a southern state in india, district headquarters less than 5kms radius, and having visited China twice once when their bamboo doors opened and in late 2014. My few observations.
People on both sides of border are as pleasant as each other.
China went to top gear in the last 2 decades or so, but the cost of which is going to show sooner or later.
India is a more self dependent country (currently bayers and monsanto are trying to take over the rich rural households, courtesy current PM supporting them in budget speech), whereas chinese economy is more export based, more level headed and having better world intrigue.
The current crop of officials, not the ones who joined a decade earlier or before them, in both the countries understand that we are being pitted against each other, (personal experience talking to over 100 civil servants of both sides).
And finally BRICS is here to stay, not one primary member can try to take it down. (assumption based on discussions with officials)
With regards to pakistan, the moment the poppy culture of afghanistan is stopped, within six months to a year, it will yield to geo politics of asia rather than some distant empire. All it requires is a bad to worst year in poppy growth.
My conclusion is that india and china have gone away from war for a long time, if there is a war, i believe we will help each other.
Finally some valuable insight instead of the usual sour grapes trolls.
Thanks for your post, that was valuable, you added to the knowledge base and I learned something from somebody who’s actually on the ground.
So Modi is promoting GMO? That’s bad news. It took the Chinese years to realize the danger of this and only recently have they been trying reduce their GMO exposure.
Modi was promoted by AIPAC(same guys who promote bush/clinton in US). The news about AIPAC promoting modi came only after the election results were declared.
Some of my friends are trying hard to find the 2 missing years of modi’s life. There is a doubt now that he was whisked away to train to toe the zionist line(complete assumption until proven considerably).
Just like the west, india is now fighting hard to survive the zionist mafia. We needed modi to open our eyes about false promises and hopes. India is awakening slowly but steadfastly. I am convinced on ground that whatever the zionists desire in india, india is going to move forward brushing aside them, with a little blood ofcourse.
i wouldnt be surprised if modi is another zwo’s manchurian candidate like obama !
hardly had he warmed his seat when raw already partnered cia to depose the pro china sri lanka prez and replace him with a bunch of washington/delhi patsies.
the puppets have cancelled all major chinese proj.
sri lanka is now a play ground for murikkan/indian mnc.
Promotion of GMOs can be attributed to simple corruption, but Modi’s role in the 2002 Gujarat riots indicate much worse. Though he was himself cleared in 2012 amid allegations of suppressed evidence, there is a broad consensus that his government was complicit.
Promoting racial supremacy, racial hatred and Nazism is bound to win the admiration of the Z’s, along with their expert assistance in getting elected to high office. One can only hope Putin’s experience in Ukraine will stand the SCO in good stead in dealing with Modi’s India if/when it joins. I’m inclined to think that the accelerated pace of India’s accession is due to the need to “put it in a box” before Modi puts it past the point of no return.
More proof of your ignorance regarding India. And without a doubt your sour grapes doublestandards. You find it convenient to ignore the burning alive of 60+ women and children that triggered the riots (is it as convenient for you to ignore the burning alive of the people in Odessa’s Trade Unions building too? It certainly is convenient for Nazis to ignore such victims). The whole thing stank of a well orchestrated externally controlled false flag; an incident that made Modi look ineffective (at best) and negligent (at worst). An incident that would have derailed his political ambitions from the start.
That whole incident was instigated by outside intelligence agencies. Part of a terror and destabilization campaign unleashed on India since India wasn’t complying with demands of the “International Community”. I find it amusing and notable that your views regarding this issue mirror those of the BBC and the rest of Anglomedia. It’s also amusing to note that the Prime minister Nawaz Sharif made a special precident setting bid to attend Modi’s inauguration, he clearly knows more about that region, Modi’s so-called ideology and that incident than you ever will.
Modi had nothing to gain from that incident and everything to lose. It was not in his self-interest and therefore inconsistent with his bid for power. I’m no fan of Modi, the jury is still out whether this guy will deliver real benefits or just sellout: never judge a politician by his words, only by their actions.
The more you comment on India the more it is clear that your knowledge of India is about as rudimentary as mine is of iceland (a country I supposedly visit often;)
What nonsense …”With regards to pakistan, the moment the poppy culture of afghanistan is stopped, within six months to a year, it will yield to geo politics of asia rather than some distant empire. All it requires is a bad to worst year in poppy growth.”
The poppy fields finance either the CIA, the Taliban or the Afghan warlords. The problem in Pakistan is the terrorism which was inspired by the US invasion of Afghanistan.
as for * Beijing nibbling at Indian territory in Ladakh (Jammu & Kashmir) in recent years.*
when it comes to propaganda, the indian msm could teach cnn, wsj etc a thing or two.
here’s a saner voice, like a whiff of fresh air after the smothering fog of war.
while some human rights activists are adamant that modi was complicit in the gujarat tragedy i’ll leave it to the indians themselves to judge.
but the fact that he is so promptly *rehab* and embraced by the garbage in washington does make the suspicion of *manchurian candiate* that much more plausible.
dont forget beijing is still officialy under washington sanction for the fabricated *tam massacre* in 1989 !
Interesting that you say “fabricated “tam massacre””. I came to a similar conclusion a decade after the event. I’ve come to see it as an early prototype of the colour revolution model we’ve come to know.
Agreed that Modi’s personal complicity in the 2002 riots is plausibly deniable, but the tenor of his (Gujarat) government’s policies is not in dispute and the buck in Gujarat stopped on his desk.
Modi’s fawning treatment in the international press made me immediately step back for a colder look at where he comes from. If you ever find his 2 lost years I hope you’ll share the information here.
gregory clark, the aussie journo who together with neville maxwell debunked the *1962 chinese aggression against india* myth, had exposed that tam fraud more than a decade ago.
even the cia psyop wikileaks had to concede the same in 2012, prolly to buy some street cred ;-)
whether modi is a cia/mossad patsy we shall see.
nevetheless, raw’s incestuous partnership with cia, mossad in sri lanka, nepal, baloch etc is an open secret amongst india’s neighbors.
can bharat serves as a trusted partner in sco or is it planted as a trojan ?
thats the big question !
The Indian state of mind for your reading pleasure. Comments are most entertain. There is actually one sane commentator for once:
‘No loss’ is the main gain from Modi’s China trip; South Korea was the highpoint
Forget Uranium. Real reason behind PM Modi’s Mongolia visit is China
*protecting the sea-lanes from the African coast to the Indonesian islands.*
looks more like an anti chinese posse threatening china’s vital energy life line imho.
*A nifty new enterprise to discuss security dangers [sic] in the Asia-Pacific and evolve a coordinated approach — the Quadrilateral Initiative — has kicked off with an unpublicized first meeting. U.S., Japanese, Indian and Australian officials, at the rank of assistant secretary of state, quietly met recently on the sidelines of the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF) gathering in Manila.*
this socalled Quadrilateral Initiative, U.S., Japanese, Indian and Australian come from the original cast of the eight nations alliance that savaged beijing in the 18 century…..
ffw 2015, while russia has long ago joined the civilised world, the *five eyes* have yet to shed their barbarous imperial dna.
bharat committed a blunder in 1962, goaded by its former colonial masters washington/london, it provoked a border war with china and paid a heavy price.
whats delhi’s choice today, to join china, russia in the civilised world or to roll in the mud with that slimy unitedsnake again ?
“…whats delhi’s choice today, to join china, russia in the civilised world or to roll in the mud with that slimy unitedsnake again ?”
Until forced by circumstance, and maybe even then, we’ll see Delhi try to play both sides against the middle. India generally views China through the prism of rivalry, while Modi’s Hindu Nationalist base views it as a hostile power. So Modi is on the horns of a dilemma. His election mandate is predicated on development, and there simply is no other place to go than Beijing for foreign investment on the scale India requires. As a shrewd politician, I’m sure he hears the clock ticking.
Once again your opinions and unsubstantiated diatribes against India show thru: so according to you India is bad if it doesn’t join the SCO and it’s also bad (nefarious) if it does join the SCO. Really pathetic how you try to make scenarios that are inconsistent with your views fit your views.
According to you:
India is bad if it tries to play the middle and look out for its own interest, but Putin is not bad (correctly so) for looking out solely for Russia’s interests and continue to pursue defense relations with nations in conflict with China.
I think the readership can draw their own conclusions about your double-standards.
The moderators seem entirely capable, but obviously don’t share your view that every second post is racist or bigoted. I suggest you have a look at the meanings of those terms before bandying them about with such abandon.
Not sure where you misread me saying that India shouldn’t look after its interests. Tragically, it will not, in fact look after its interests. Instead, it will vacillate between the immediate, shallow interests of the various factions of its elites.
Your insulting little screed some posts above show you also have a complete misunderstanding of GDP and of poverty eradication.
GDP is related only tangentially to income. It is in fact a measure of the velocity of money through an economy. Here is an illustration of the USA’s GDP rising while its median income is falling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png
Pity you didn’t read the link you provided regarding the 140M Indians lifted out of poverty. Had you read it, you would have seen two points the article made which undercut this and your GINI arguments.
– the 140M were “lifted out of poverty” by being handed free money, aka welfare. The country got not one whit richer on that account and in fact got poorer in real terms. Very, very different from what China did.
– India calculates inequality by measuring expenditure rather than income. I’m sure even you would be able to discern how that artificially raises India’s equality. If not, here’s a hint: rich people don’t spend all of their income.
Again you been proven wrong. Gini shows that income is flatter in India, and income has gone up several multiples in the last 15 years. Your erbus inability to admit it is your problem and it is mildly amusing but nothing more.
how about fewer comments about other people, and more comments full of facts?
Supporting your own country is good. Not liking it badly spoken of is also good. But this is not a bar where you can win by shouting louder. This blog is full of sensible people who are interested in finding out more about the world. GIVE them more.
Are you joking Kat kan? You let thru multiple comments where the writers don’t substantiate their position with facts including a particularly funny one that says all comments from Indians about this topic should be disregarded (someone on par with a banderstani).
You will note that I supplied large numbers of facts as well as links (too many for you at one point). If you had read all my comments you’d already know that.
Now. I am not defending my country, I am straightening out double-standards and Indo-phobia as vociferously as I oppose Russophobia and double-speak against Russians..
In addition, I also defend the people of North America (US, Canada,etc) as well as the many good people in the US govt and security services who are doing the best they can in an increasingly corrupt system. I want no harm to come to the people in West, on the contrary, I want them to flourish.
I’m not sure if you remember some time back on another article where multiple people were making irresponsible emotive comments hoping that the US dollar would crash catastrophically (out of the vindictive wish of punishing the people of the West). You were attacked by multiple commenters for opposing a hard landing for the dollar: it would mean mass suffering for innocent people. I was one of the few that supported your position completely because that was the just thing to do – it had nothing to do with defending India, it had to do with what was just. Please try not minimize others by reducing their position to simply defending their country, things are not that simple.
It might amuse some of the site staff to allow vicious hateful things to be said about India and Indians (or it might not), but without a doubt the Anglo and EU/German establishment will do something to demonize Russians and materially and physically harm Russians, at that point one might gain an appreciation for my point (depending on how self-centered the individual is).
I won’t deny that I do (on some slight Machiavellian level) enjoy some of the indophobic comments because they are often quite funny and ill-conceived: on one level its better to see this ugliness and incompetence rather having it hidden – they expose the true ugliness and lack of intellect of that class of individual. -It’ll catch up to them (in this day and age with the state the internet’s in) – just as I believe Russophobic individuals are harming their long term interests in the same way. However, at some point Indophobic comments like Russophobic comments get gratuitous and take away from productive discussion and they leave new Indian readers of this site with a negative and distorted impression of its community and its views.
Yes, you made lots of arguments. Alas, they were specious arguments backed by irrelevant links. I and others have pointed out to you where your misunderstandings lie, and all you did was repeat them in ever more insulting language. Whatever that may be, it isn’t honest argument. A few other adjectives come to mind before “honest”, along with some nouns like “noise”.
For clarity, let’s go point by point:
Again, GDP whether per capita or in aggregate, is a measure of money velocity, and has only an elastic connection to people’s income. Its irrelevance to your argument does not improve with repetition, or with charges of bigotry when someone points it out. Until and unless your argument moves onto a different foundation, it remains in the realm of noise. Summa Summarum: citing India’s median income (not average income) may help you to make your case. Citing GDP/capita does not.
Again, India’s GINI index is, perhaps uniquely, calculated using expenditure rather than income. Expenditure, btw, means expenditure inside India which naturally underestimates the already relatively low percentage of income that the rich spend. Ergo, its GINI index is radically skewed lower and the empirical evidence of near starvation alongside fabulous wealth that is ubiquitously encountered in India suggests the index is a political construct of little economic significance. Summa Summarum: We have no idea what India’s “real” GINI index is, but repeatedly citing the currently published variant as anything but the vaguest of indicators is disingenuous.
Your argument that India “lifted 140M out of poverty” is similarly disingenuous. The quoted words are normally used to mean that these people are now able to provide themselves with the necessities of life in a more or less sustainable way. IOW, they are now participating in a larger economic rise that is lifting all boats. It emphatically does not mean welfare or charity, which is provided at the pleasure of 3rd parties. According to the link you provided, the Indian government simply handed out some money. Summa Summarum: However desperately needed, distributing money is the financial equivalent of distributing aid. In fact, on a national basis, it’s worse.
As for the Gujarat riots, I am quite aware of the events that helped trigger them.That the riots were an escalation, and not the initiation, of the tragedy is clear. However, it is surely the primary function of government to provide security for its populace. Thus, Modi’s government should have done all in its power to urgently calm the situation, prevent further atrocity and bring the perpetrators to justice. Instead, it appears to have encouraged escalation by being passive at best, or actively complicit at worst. Summa Summarum: Modi’s ideological roots suggest that we ought to look even more critically at what he does rather than what he says.
Your charges of bigotry and racism against anyone bringing counter arguments to the table reminds one of another tribe that cries “anti-Semite” at the first sign of a critical view, while your self-confessed, adolescent snickering at others’ reasoned arguments belie a cavalier approach to India’s issues that I’ve not encountered in India itself. So, I remain hopeful that India will eventually be able to face its issues squarely.
I don’t believe I was speaking to you Erebus. I was responding to Kat Kan (it’s quite clear).
Do you make a habit of butting into others conversations? Your behavior speaks for itself.
This is as far as I got reading your latest screed: “Yes, you made lots of”. At this point I scrolled down to reply box let let you know I was speaking to Kat Kan.
Please feel free to waste your time and write another long verbose response (took a lot of scrolling on my phone to get past your screed) – that nobody is going read (including me). The facts speak for themselves and there’s nothing you can do about it.
It is refreshing to see the knowledge and information possessed by the commentators on this article. This excludes the Indian comments. They make the same hyper nationalistic jingoism that we see in the main article.
Apart from the historical inaccuracies, the articles tone shows how India views China: through the prism of competition, unfortunately of the type that needs downplaying China’s success for India to win.
This is the same way the writer views Pakistan and their relationship, not one that can be improved but one that needs Pakistan to bend to India. If this is the mood in India, then all is not well.
Can you make your bigotry and totalitarian impulses any more clearer than this:
I’m trying so hard not laugh when I’m writing this: So Indians must not comment on their own country? The only comments regarding India that can be considered legitimate are those Written by non-Indians. Have you ever considered running for parliament from a riding in Lviw? Your comment reminds of the logic that spews from Right Sector, Poroshenko and other intolerant totalitarian nuts inhabiting the Ukro-Nazi rada.
“Apart from the historical inaccuracies, the articles tone shows how India views China: through the prism of competition, unfortunately of the type that needs downplaying China’s success for India to win.
This is the same way the writer views Pakistan and their relationship, not one that can be improved but one that needs Pakistan to bend to India. If this is the mood in India, then all is not well.”
In your opinion, Was Raphee’s above comments right on the nose?
Stating that an entire race has no legitimacy and credibility providing comments on their own country is so moronic that it makes the Junta Klowns in Kiev look intelligent. It demolishes the credibility of the writer and shows the hollowness of that interlocutors seriousness on the topic.
Why would I take any further comments and unfounded suppositions from that individual as having any merit? I can’t even take them seriously.
Now since you are asking, I would respond that it is healthy for India to look at China (partially) from a prism of competition because it has provided Indian society the swift kick in the ass that it deserved for having executed such mediocre performance in it’s first 50 years (real reforms started in 1998). – And it takes away the tolerance the Indian people have extended to the mediocre performance of their system.
China’s accomplishments are concrete and deserved. China has taken away the excuse from all segments of Indian society as to what is achievable and it has provided all segments with impetus to expect and demand better performance- from their own system and from themselves. This competition is not based on downplaying China’s success because anyone who attempts that in india gets laughed at (India’s extreme Left, the -fake- Communists, the dregs of India’s Malthusian Socialist Congress Party and their 5th-Columnist cohorts in the Indian English lang media): neither Indian merchants who sell Chinese goods nor Indian consumers that buy said goods have any patience for excuse making by the indian bureaucracy or the media – the proof of China’s success is in their hands, in their kitchens, in Indian retail outlets, on TV and on the Internet). With Modi & Xi’s recent decision to encourage people to people contact the word will spread even more starkly (already I’ve seen a plethora of adverts on Indian TV promoting package tours to China – not even 2 weeks after the political announcement).
The rest of the comment regarding India’s alleged expectations of Pakistan is as meritless as Ukro Nazi complaints against Russia:, they complain that Russia is behaving as a domineering Bear while those same anarchic scum, making the accusation, are implementing terrorism against Russians and open international hostility against Russia.
I thought his comments of Indian’s view of Pakistan was right on. I have not see any one have so much ill feeling to ward its own one time compatriot. All those ill wishes, almost daily threat from Indian government, does it ever grew old on your population?
Pakistan In Fury After India Admits Terrorism
Apprehensions about India confirmed: Pakistan hits back at Parrikar on terrorism remark
Regarding China, mind what you do, not what you say. In your action, your country showed the world you enjoy your act of containing China. Blame others, or blame others on how they view you will not change the face India is a swinging weed on top of wall, only need a slight breath to change your direction.
By the way, on every Indian on line publications, there is cry to contain China, beat Pakistan. If there is any reasonable one, I have not found it. In this regard, your people are saying as you are doing. A few comments from you and your other personalities on a Chinese friendly blog here not withstanding!
There is no use to call me a racist, or bigots either. It fall off me like water.
@Anonymous “By the way”
It would be nice if you would articulate your thoughts in more coherent manner, I seriously cannot understand most pf your text. 你说什么?
It’s irrelevant that comments like racist or bigots upset or don’t upset you: what is relevant is to point out the childish immaturity, hypocrisy and stupidity of a person that would state that comments coming from an entire ethnicity should be disregarded. Such flawed reasoning demolishes the opinions of the person that proposes such irrational thought because it shows a shoddy and underdeveloped level of reasoning and logic in that individual’s analysis.
Asking questions are in fact good thing if you are not understanding anything totally, however this article offers pleasant understanding even.|
Here is promised list of India’s sgressions against its neighbors since 1947. It is posted by CurryBeef on the Diplomat:
1947 Annexation of Kashmir
1949 Annexation of Manipur
1949 Annexation of Tripura
1951 Annexation of South Tibet:
1961 Annexation of Goa:
1962 Annexation of Kalapani, Nepal:
1962 Aggression against China:
1971 Annexation of Turtuk, Pakistan:
1972 Annexation of Tin Bigha, Bangladesh
1975 Annexation of Sikkim (the whole country):
1983 (Aborted) Attempted invasion of Mauritius
1990 (Failed) Attempted annexation of Bhutan:
2013 Annexation of Moreh, Myanmar
The info is rather intriguing.|
link is dead … mod-hs