(Note: this column was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russias-civilizational-choice/)
This week, Vladimir Putin and a large number of national and foreign dignitaries and guests have inaugurated the biggest mosque in Europe: the new Moscow Cathedral Mosque. This was a big event, much awaited by the many tens of thousands of Russian Muslims who live in the Russian capital and who, in the past, have had to pray in the streets due to the lack of a mosque big enough to accommodate them all. This event, however, has a significance which much exceeds just the local lack of space. The truth is that most Muslims who prayed in the Moscow city center wanted more than just a bigger building – they wanted an official acknowledgement of their existence and of their importance for Russia. Now this much awaited acknowledgement has finally happened and the famous Moscow city center will feature 240 foot tall golden minarets which will elegantly complement the traditional Orthodox cupolas. But I would argue that this event is even bigger than just a recognition of the role Islam plays in modern Russia – I believe it to be the expression of a profound civilizational choice.
We have heard a lot about “civilizational choices” in the context of the Ukrainian civil war. The Western propaganda machine turned what was a struggle between various Ukrainian oligarchs into a “civilizational choice”, hence the slogan “Україна це Європа” (the Ukraine is Europe). What is implied here is that the Ukraine is part of the civilized “West” while Russia is some kind of “Asiatic” realm, populated by people who neither understand nor like the so-called “European values” and against whom the “civilized” Ukrainians need to stand in defense of Europe. This is just a rehashing of the old russophobic notion of the Marquis de Custine who famously said “Grattez le Russe, et vous verrez un Tartare” (scratch the Russian and you will find the Tatar). Hitler also warned about the “Asiatic” nature of the “Russian subhumans”. Paradoxically, while these Russia-haters never understood Russia, they still were unto something very real: the fact that while even though in the recent past (roughly between the 18th and 21st centuries ), Russia was ruled by pro-Western elites, most of the Russian people never surrendered to the acculturation process imposed by their rulers and while they externally complied, internally, on the level of their ethos, they kept their ancient roots.
Historically, Russia has been the product of three main factors: Russians take most of their ethnic stock from the ancient Slavic people who lived in what is today called the Ukraine, their religion and worldview from the Orthodox Christianity inherited from the Eastern Roman Empire (mistakenly called “Byzantium” in the West), and their statehood from the Tatar occupation which unified various small principalities into one unified state. True, since Peter I Russian elites (Monarchists or Communists) tried hard to “westernize” the Russian people, but since the coming to power of Putin this tendency has finally been reversed. This is why Putin enjoys a 80%+ support in poll after poll while the Russian elites hate him. The events in the Ukraine further accelerated this process: the Ukrainian pseudo “civilizational choice” did result in a real Russian civilizational choice which has too many implications for full discussion here, but one of these is the embrace of Islam as an integral part of Russia.
In itself, this acceptance of Islam as part of Russia is nothing new. Czar Nicholas II, who was an extremely pious Orthodox Christian and who has been glorified as a saint by the Russian Orthodox Church, personally chose the central location of what was then the biggest mosque in Europe – right in the middle of the then capital of Russia, Saint Petersburg. So what Putin is doing now is just in the direct continuation of what was done before him.
Still, less than 20 years after two wars in the Balkans (Bosnia, Kosovo) and two wars inside Russia (both in Chechnia) very few had predicted that Muslim Chechens would fight in defense of Orthodox Christians in the Donbass, while Putin would inaugurate the biggest mosque in Europe just a mile away from the Kremlin. The reality, of course, is that these wars did not pitch Russia against Islam, but Russia against a very specific form of Saudi-backed Wahabi Islam which, itself, was organized and controlled by the AngloZionist Empire.
Most Russians, including Putin himself, are acutely aware of the huge difference between what they call “traditional Islam” and Wahabi/Takfiri Islam and they see the latter as an instrument of the USA to destroy those countries and regimes which refuse to submit to the AngloZionist Empire.
In the West we mostly hear about how “Islamic terrorists” kill Christians in Syria, Yazidis in Iraq or even Hindus in India. In Russia, however, people regularly hear how Wahabi terrorists murder Muslim religious leaders and personalities (especially in southern Russia) and how the Wahabis consider all other Muslims, as infidels and idolaters. In other words, Russians don’t see an “Islamic threat”, but only a “Wahabi/Takfiri” one.
The same goes for history. While in the West we are told that the Crusades opposed “Christendom” and Islam, in Russia the Orthodox Christians fully remember that they were on the same receiving end of the Papist Crusades as the Muslims and many Russians even remember that the Pope ordered a “northern Crusade” to destroy Russian Orthodoxy. Finally, even a cursory look at the history of the Ukraine tells Russians everything they need to know about how the Papacy has always persecuted the “Photian schismatics” (Orthodox Christianity) “ad majorem Dei gloriam” (for the greater glory of God). In contrast, relations between Orthodox Christians and Muslims have by and large been peaceful. The notable exception to this was the Ottoman Empire which has always viciously persecuted Orthodox Christianity, but that kind of behavior was always an Ottoman characteristic, not a Muslim one.
As Colonel-General (3 star general) Vladislav Achalov said “Православные и Правоверные всегда договорятся!” (the Orthodox and the Faithful will always find an agreement). He is right. While on a dogmatic level Islam and Orthodoxy are fundamentally incompatible (Islam sees Christ as a man, Orthodoxy as Son of God and God Himself), on a cultural and social level there are no incompatibilities at all. In fact, the two religions share a lot of common views, especially on daily social issues. It is not a coincidence that the same city which now will host the biggest mosque in Europe also banned “gay pride” parades for the next 100 years.
The recent events in the Middle-East are also having their impact on Russia. One can often hear in the Russian media and blogosphere the idea that “the Syrians are killing Wahabis terrorists over there so we don’t have to do that over here” and most people understand that Daesh is not only a problem for the Middle-East, but also a direct threat to the Caucasus and Central Asia. Nor are Russian decision makers under any illusions about what can happen in Afghanistan. This is why they have turned the so-called “soft underbelly of Russia” into what I would call the “armored underbelly of Russia”.
Still, while Russian soldiers and special units can kill Wahabis in their thousands, no amount of military force can really eliminate Wahabism itself. Only Islam can truly defeat Wahabism. The perfect example of that reality is Chechnia were the Russian won the war, but Akhmad and Ramzan Kadyrov truly won the peace (even today, Chechen Muslims hold all the primary security functions in Chechnia, while the Federal Forces remain primarily as a reserve force). Russians have no special preference as to which branch of Islam to support against Wahabism, as long as it is a traditional one which does not pose an immediate and major threat to everybody else. In Chechnia most Muslims are Sunni, Iranians and Hezbollah are Shia while the regime in Syria is Alawi. As for the country closest to Russia – Kazakhstan – most of its people are Sunni Muslims. Russia is even exploring, albeit with difficulty, the possibilities of forging closer contacts with Turkey, even though the Ottomans used be the second worst enemy of Orthodox Christianity (after the Papacy, of course).
The contrast with the AngloZionist Empire could not be greater. While in the West most political leaders chose to deny that the West’s current conflict is one pitting the “West” against “Islam”, the western propaganda machine (Hollywood, TV, print media, etc.) is clearly demonizing Islam and Muslims in general. Furthermore, the current refugee crisis in Europe is often interpreted as an “Islamic” cultural threat to either secular or “Christian” Europe (pseudo and post Christian, in reality, of course). French racists chose to blame it all on “Islam” completely overlooking that Christian Romanians and Gypsies also could not integrate the French society either.
In the EU politicians are seriously asking whether the hijab is compatible with “western values”. For Orthodox Christians this is a no-brainer: enter into a traditional Orthodox church and you will see all the woman covering their heads with something which looks very much like a hijab. Or take a traditional Russian doll – the famous matrioshkas – and look at what Russian women used to wear for centuries before the Russian elites tried to westernize them: the very same hijab. Finally, look at any Orthodox icon showing the Mother of God and look what she is wearing and, you guessed it, you will see something very similar to a modern hijab. In fact, the rules of modesty are almost the same ones in Islam and Orthodox Christianity, as is the preference for men to have beards. What you will never see amongst Orthodox Christians are the Niqabs or Burkas, not even for monastics. But that is not a practice amongst Russian Muslims either. At this point somebody will inevitably ask about alcohol, so I might as well address that here.
Russians still like their alcohol, especially their beloved vodka, and most will be unwilling to give it up. But most Russians are also acutely aware of the devastating effect the abuse of alcohol has had on the Russian people and society. So, if anything, as long as they are not forced to give up their own right to drink alcohol, they respect those who, like Muslims, decide not to drink it. So while this topic makes for good social conversation, it is really a non-issue since Muslims in Russia have never tried to impose a ban on alcohol on non-Muslims. Again, Tatarstan or Chechnia are not Saudi Arabia (even in Grozny the sale of alcohol is strictly regulated, but it is not banned like in some US “dry counties”).
The inauguration of the new Cathedral Mosque in Moscow is a symbol of a much larger and deeper phenomenon – the slow but steady rapprochement between the Orthodox and the Islamic world, it is the expression of a Russian civilizational choice which has finally given up any illusion about being part of the “West” and which is turning south (Middle-East), east (Siberia and China) and north (Siberia and the Arctic) and, in doing so, returning to the true historical roots of what I call the “Russian civilizational realm” – those parts of the Eurasian continent which were affected and influenced by the Russian culture and people.
None of that means that Russia must necessarily be in any way hostile to the West. Of course, as long as the AngloZionists will continue to support Nazis in the Ukraine and Takfiris in the Middle-East, while constantly undermining Russia economically and threatening her militarily, relations will remain tense. But most Russians would prefer a friendly and mutually profitable relationship with the EU. The dream of a common house from the Atlantic to the Urals still has a lot of supporters in Russia. The sad reality, however, is that the Europeans seem completely unable to stand up even for their own, pragmatic, national interests. The way the EU shot itself in the foot with sanctions against Russia, or with the fantastically stupid war against Gadafi just proves to the Kremlin that the EU is just a voiceless US colony. I am sure that Russia will be willing to have friendly partnership with Europe if and when the US-designed EU and NATO are finally replaced with something more European. But until then all the Russians can do is wait and attend to the multiple risks and opportunities presented by the rest of the planet. Only time will show whether the so-called “West” can finally give up its centuries-old dream to subjugate Russia by one way or another. All Russia can do is to prepare for the worst and hope for the best while opening her capital to the Muslim world while keeping Papal visits and “gay pride” parades away.
PS: I have only superficially touched upon the complex topic of Russia and Islam. If it is of interest to you, you can check out the following series of articles:
Q; while keeping Papal visits and “gay pride” parades away.
R; Right off the bat, I’m a very simple [minded] guy.
One that looks at nature and the Universe, both as a guidance as well as a source of inspiration, when it comes to whatever I don’t understand or desperately try to comprehend.
Both nature and the Universe actually say nothing.
They don’t tell me anything. They do show whatever they do though, for all to see and without prejudice or judgement to boot.
They’re perfectly honest about what they do themselves too and have no hidden, secret agendas.
So, when nature shows me albatrosses and their way of life, I would like to quote Mr. Putin, “Who am I to judge?” – link to National Geographic.com
How about you?
I say let albatrosses be albatrosses and let Russians be Russians
Don’t demand that Russians behave like albatrosses!
who are *you* to judge?
nobody has the right to impose their spiritual or sexual pathologies on others.
it’s that simple.
Muslims understand that
That is why Russia has made the civilizational choice she has made.
next some wise guy is going to say that it’s okay to eat your sexual partners “kuz the spiders do that too” and who am I to judge :-)
please, let’s stop the nonsense and get back to all the interesting stuff, okay?
@ The Saker,
As same-sex partnerships, in nature, are not an anomaly, and according to most religious person I have talked to, God created nature, what will Jesus say [if or when he returns] and he sees all those military parades?
Greeting Daniel Rich,
Nothing is perfect but GOD. Everything created is imperfect, including the nature!
This is the belief of all Muslims.
Mohamd on September 26, 2015 · at 10:04 am UTC:
“Nothing is perfect but GOD”
Your GOD is imperfect and is a cad http://thesaker.is/controversy-is-good-if-it-makes-you-think/comment-page-1/#comment-113193
The definition of a cad (replace man with GOD):
A rogue, or bounder. A cad is a man who is aware of the codes of conduct which seperate a gentleman from a ruffian, but finds himself unable to quite live up to them. Cads are quite capable of disguising themselves as good chaps for some time, only revealing their true nature in circumstances of particular stress or temptation. Others embrace their caddishness whole-heartedly and delight in behaving in a manner which is, to be quite frank, not cricket.
They are certainly intelligent, educated, often cultured and frequently very witty, but, alas, are simply unreliable.”
From the Moderator – ebear you seem to be attacking many commenters on here. Please refrain from making it personal or your comments won’t be posted in future. Mod TR
“This is the belief of all Muslims”
You’re sure about that? God is perfect, but His creation is not?
So, God in his perfection decided to create an imperfect world?
You know, when speaking for all muslims, it would be helpful to quote the Q”ran.
from that link:
“Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!”
how, in them good old days, did folk know about sperm and foetus and the like?
Was this in a yarn that God had with Moses or Allah had with Muhammad to describe things before the invention of the microscope.
Salam brother Anonymous,
The Holy Quran talks about the trimester in womb. One rule of translation is that anything in brackets is not part of the Quran.
Salam brother ebear,
You are quoting from a translated Quran. A translated Quran is not a Quran.
The site you are quoting from is a Wahhabi site, and they are trying to recruit liver eaters.
How I know it is a Wahhabi site?
Because it is quoting Sheikh ibn Taymiyyah, the god of Abdul Wahhab and Wahhabis.
Dearest Mohamed. attacks on you in this whole terrible thread because we’re training newbies….please forgive us.
Salam, Becareful when you speak for God and all Muslims. Here is a verse from the Quran in contradiction to your statement.
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion.”
– Qur’an 5:3
There are no same sex relationships in nature
There might be same sex relationship in Animals, as they are created imperfect like Humans who might have the tendency for same sex relationship.
In Islam, Humans can be higher than Angels and lower than the Animals.
Angels : Created with high intelligence but NO desire.
Animals : Created with little intelligence but are FULL of desire.
Humans : Created with BOTH intelligence and desire.
When a Human overcomes his/her desire, then he/she is better than Angels. When the same Human is consumed with his/her desire, then he/she is worse than Animals.
Nature is imperfect, just like Time and Space. All creations are imperfect.
Mohamed..I think there’s a new moderator…that explains what happens further down…God bless you Mohamed…
Salam sister Ann,
Blessed are the Peace Makers!
Nature is God.
So if Nature is imperfect, so is God.
Oh, I forgot: Everybody of you religious believers keeps of course claiming, that exclusively and only HISSSSS God is the rrrrrreal one.
All this religious trolling makes me stay away from this forum.
So be happy: You all can continue talking about such stuff.
But doesn’t anybody notice how ridiculous this is?
Straight back to the 13th century …
(and yes, I write this with my full nick name, because I’m not such a coward like these many “anonymous” posters recently.)
All your religions and sects were invented by humans to mind-control you.
And it still works in the 21st century. Unbelievable.
No matter if Moslem, Orthodox Christian, Catholic Christian, Protestand Christian, Proteastand Christian, Anglican Christian, Jew or whatever – everybody has “the real one”??
And time started 2000 years ago??
Man, you all are following an Astrological calendar.
And that’s indeed unbelievable how such things could have been known 1000’s of years ago, in precise detail.
The REAL Truth About Religion And Its Origins – MUST WATCH!! [High Quality]
ALL Religions are Lies – Masters of Deception
LAST THING: If any of all your Gods and interpretations and prophets really existed, and would see what your religions are doing, he would instantly forbid religion.
What a crap, not my place here.
If I wanted to learn something about the Koran / Quaran or old or new testament then I would join some course. But I thought this here is about heloing Donbass, rather than talking night and day about who has the truuuuuuu religion.
I really want back to communism.
Comrade Stalin would turn in his grave if he had to witness all these new (stone-age) developments in this world.
Not healthy anymore.
I still haven’t watched your Putin video. I will.
I used to attempt posting with a name but many times had little success. I found posting without a name increased my success rate so decided to do that full time.
I also find that it can sometimes help to bring out the real prejudice and bigotry that, in my opinion, most people, including saker site visitors, hold.
No intention to change – but it is good to be able to refer to you by a name.
Keep your degenerations for yourself, degenerate Westerner. Don’t export your corruption and liberal “religion” on the rest of the world. And Westerners are accusing Muslims of agressive behavior – they who are spreading their unwanted liberal pleague on the rest of the world through wars, coups and various subterfuges like NGOs, their Hollywood and media trash propaganda, etc. No honour in these slimy and slippery Westerners.
Excellent comment, Republika Srpska. Liberalism is indeed a curse personified by George Soros. The neocons are the fascist vanguard of it.
In a nutshell.
[My Great grandfather Sebastian from Montenegro; he was officially named Sirbu by the
Romanian people of North Bessarabia ,but by our old family’s name with the Russian majority people
there in Staraja Schalwirj. My grandfather Wassilij was ethnically “cleansed.”1937 In Russian Bessarabia, French/Rothschild handed over to kolonialist/zionist Romania after 3 months of independence in 1918.
Swjaty Stefan Duschan, Stefan Nemanjia, Stefan Cel Mare… > guard your lands and people.(s) +
Daniel Rich…same sex partnerships in nature ???? bs…..no links of course.
They are anomaly. You can’t deny that female and male reproductive organs fit togheter. Anus is not a reproductive organ.
The Saker on September 25, 2015 · at 11:45 pm UTC said:
“next some wise guy is going to say that it’s okay to eat your sexual partners “kuz the spiders do that too” and who am I to judge :-)”
Preposterous logical jump. Those who coined “Ziogay” are at the same level as the Zionists.
RE: the “justthetalk.com” 11:45 anonymous troll:
So you are a ziogay then? ;D
“nobody has the right to impose their spiritual or sexual pathologies on others.”
The Tyranny of the Majority is exactly that. No different in Russia than anywhere else.
To be fair… perhaps you should also let gay Russians be gay Russians. Who are you to judge? Rapists and pedophiles can go to hell, and people who are inconsiderate of others can expect to get hostile looks regardless of their sex, gender of sexual preferences (topless fat men, gropers of women, public face-mashers etc… get a room!)
Just my humble opinion mind, not here to assign myself the role of a god and say what is and what is not againt nature.
My impression is that Russia is the last bastion of traditionalism in Europe, versus the neoliberal/culturalmarxist of the West. This is an ideology war between traditionalism and culturalmarxism.. It is worthy to note that the western people did not want to live under traditionalism, and if you look back at every poll from should women work as much as men and the children be raised by the state, to should abortion be the norm, should porn be norm, the people both men and women were always negative, but the ideology was forced on them from the top. But even today western people are negative to most values of culturalmarxism. And that is why you see traditionalist/nationalist/conservative parties rising all over Europe, Marine Le Pen in France, UKIP in UK, Sd in Sweden, Afd in Germany, many of these are on the verge of beign the largest parties in their countries, and they are all pro-Russian/neutral to Russia.
For ****’s sake, Lif: Forget about “Die dummen SchwedenDemokraten”. They are a NWO party just like the rest of Sweden’s parliamentary sewer. Amusingly, sd’s prevalent “ideology” stands out as a perfect combination of Syriza and Golden Dawn in Greece. This becomes very clear once you read their official Party journal. In short: Whining, moaning, and groaning against (Third World) immigrants, pro-EU, pro-NATO, anti-Russia. First World chauvinism and delusions all along the line.
Just as the EU beautifully screws up all these faithful “über-European” flunkeys in Eastern Europe, so too does it in Western Europe. Great fun to watch.
Yeah, I know that, SD is no good. :( Although they are not anti-Russian pro-NATO and definitely not pro-EU.
OK, this is a very minor topic. Suffice it to say that sd evades any sensible problems such as Sweden’s deteriorating schools, public transportation, de-industrialization etc. and gets away effortlessly with their reactionary drivel accompanied by petty crime.
My impression is that SD exists mainly to enrich its leadership, and anyone threating the income of the top layer within SD are banned and thrown out directly.
That’s undoubtedly a part of their “Party Life”, yes. Bowing before Zionism is another.
You’ll have a hard time selling this to the Orthodox Greeks, the Orthodox Serbs, the Orthodox Bulgarians, and .. well, just about any other Orthodox. But hey, anything for politics. Although an alliance with the moslems doesn’t require you to sell your soul.
dont know, as the depravities of the west become clear/increase, ‘even’ to the orthodox you mention the Muslim world will seem more as an ally.
For instance the Serbian pple know full well who bombed and irradiated their country, just like Palestine , Iraq, yemen,…..
Greeks are getting their dose of Western Imperial ‘treatment’ as we speak…
If Russia leads, they and even others in the catholic and muslim hitherto ‘pacified’ areas of the Empire will want to follow.
RE: the flor Muslim hate spam
I had thought in the past this was a Zionist spammer, now there is no question of it. That flor comment is the sort of standard spam websayanim and other zionazis use to spam Muslim hate whenever somebody discusses relations with Muslim people in a positive way.
Totally agree, add to this also anti-communist, anti-Russian.
Salam Sister elsi,
I understand that in the past you have visited both Yemen and Iran. Oman is one of the best place to visit, as it is heaven on earth. I guess I am prejudice.
You have 1400 KM of beach, lots of lots of mountain with houses built into them like Yemen (not so much as Yemen), you have the Wahiba Sands and you have the dangerous wadis, where the water flows at the bottoms, where the two mountains meet (lowlands).
And, in the end of Summer we have Salalah, which gets tail end of Monsoon (Indians’ rain).
Lately, everything is commercialized, due to excess tourism. Lots and lots of tourism agencies have sprung up.
Late October to early March is best time to visit Oman, as the temperatures tend to be cooler. However, due climate change, it is projected that it might rain very heavy this and coming years from October to December.
I agree, the message isn’t quite the same in Balkans, their history tells a different story, as described in the The Bridge on the Drina, by I Andric. The interactions between the religious blocks hasn’t always been pleasant.
I’m an Orthodox Serb and I can assure you that we have no hatred towards Muslims. In fact we are living with them for centuries together and the Bosniaks are an integral part to our culture and society and in most cases even within our families.
The war will not change that.
Come on, do not make me laugh. Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Muslims hate each other and it is incurable.
You can sell that fairy tales to people who have no idea about Bosnian/Herzegovina reality.
Of course that we always have people who does not hate anyone, but generally, everyone can see what interethnic “love” exist in Bosnia.
Not 100% true.
I (as a so called German) always try to tell them in the Muslim part (like in Tuzla, Zivinice, Banovici, Breza, Zenica) that the damn West is their enemy and that the Serbs were not guilty.
I met many mainland BiH people (locomotive drivers, shop workers, restaurant staff) that agree with me: Communism/Yugoslavia was best (ok, they prefer Tito over Stalin).
But for BiH it is not true that they hate the Serbs.
This however does apply to another “country”: Hrvatska (Croatia).
They are fully pro-West, pro-EU and anti-Serbian, anti-Russian and even more so anti-Communist (because they are probably anti-Social, but I’m not the one to judge it).
However, inside BiH I also met friendly Bosnian-Croats with good memories of peaceful co-existance in the good old Yugoslavia, but never in Croatia. Neither in Dubrovnik or Split, nor and especially not in Slavonia. There they really hate not only the Serbs but also the Bosnians.
Yugoslavia – the Good Old Days of Tito-style Communism
Another funny but true story: I very much like Bosnian FOLK music.
Once in a while I bnought 10 CD’s in BiH in a BINGO store and digitalized them, gave the CD’s themselves to friends during my next visit in BiH.
Then a while later I went to youtube and saved me all such music I could find.
Later on I found out that some of my most favorite songs are in fact SERBIAN FOLK rather than Bosnian. There you see how realated Bosnians and Serbs historically are!
While the Croats of Croatia don’t like such music at all and are much more cold-blooded.
Look how in the 90ties many volunteer Hobby SS-Fascists (even in SS Uniforms that they bought in Theaters!) went to Croatia from all of western Europe to kill some четник’s .
Youtube is full with original footage.
Mentality is different from one region to another of course. Serbs from Serbia and Serbs from Bosnia, Croats from Croatia and Croats from Bosnia, people from Bosnia and people from Herzegovina, despite to ethnics.
Today we have different ethnics and nationalities but I believe that Serbs, Croats, Montenegrians and Bosniaks – muslims from Bosnia and Herzegovina, we all have common roots, but under different circumstances we have developed different ethnic and national identities.
But if we are talking about interethnic relations in Bosnia and Herzegovina, ethnic conflict is just frozen. You talked to people from Bosnia and they told you they do not hate Serbs and Serbs told you they do not hate Muslims.
Some of them told the truth but many of them just lie.
During the centuries, people In Bosnia was trained not to say what they really think so I do not blame you for your being naïve.
Try to get more deeply into the political problem in Bosnia and Herzegovina and you will see that everyone strictly holds his ethnic political agenda.
First, everyone will blame others for war.
Muslims political agenda is entire Bosnia and Herzegovina under Bosniak Muslim rule and domination, with Serbs and Croats inside or without them. Every Muslim hopes that one day Bosnia will be purely Muslim national state. And with as small number of Serbs and Croats as is possible. Bosniak Muslims falsify History and claim entire Bosnia and Herzegovina as their exclusive property.
In order to achieve that . they do whatever they can to make life of remaining Serbs and Croats in areas under Muslim rule, as hard as is possible. This resulted in quiet ethnic cleansing after war.
Generally, trend of such ethnic cleansing in Bosnia is unstoppable process because everyone moves in the areas under their ethnic political control.
Nobody trusts nobody and they can sell you fairy tales and you can believe in them if you wish, but reality is absolutely different.
Bosnian Serbs political agenda is to separate their part from the rest of Bosnia and Herzegovina and to join to Serbia. Their part, called Republika Srpska (Republic of Serbs) never before existed as political or ethnic entity in entire history and it is created by pure and brutal force and monstrous and merciless ethnic cleansing. Bosnian Muslims and Croats are simply wiped out from entire half of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Only little number of refugees returned after war in Serbian part of Bosnia, mainly older Muslims.
That is why everyone who knows what happened is disguised when Serbs starts accusing everyone else for war and crimes and when they start talking about ethnic cleansing in Operation Storm in 1995, forgetting that it was them who started the war and it was them who committed the most of war crimes.
, Reason that this freaky creation is still formally in Bosnia and Herzegovina is constant pressure from EU and America.
Bosnian Croats political agenda was absolute confusing in the beginning, but somehow was predominant idea of separation of predominantly Croatian parts of Bosnia and Herzegovina and to join Croatia.
Similar to political objective of Bosnian Serbs, but Croats were weakest and could not do efficient ethnic cleansing and they were hesitating in the beginning and when Muslims got stronger Croats lost the most of areas under their control because Muslims outnumbered them. Some Croats had an idea to go together with Muslims until total defeat of Serbs. This idea was inherited from WW2 and ustasha ideology, but this organization and their leadership was exterminated by order from Croatia, probably from Croatian President Tudjman personally.
Some marginal Croatian groups of intelectuals in urban areas such as Sarajevo support idea of multiethnic Bosnia and Herzegovina as a country similar to what was Bosnia in socialist Yugoslavia but it is impossible today.
So, Bosnian Croats agenda is similar to Bosnian Serbs agenda but less radical because America and EU pushed them in common Federation with Muslims on the remaining half of Bosnia and Herzegovina. That Federation is also freak and interethnic conflicts between dominant Muslims and Croatian minority are constant for more than 20 years.
I have to say that so far America and EU mostly supported Muslims, against Croats and Serbs. They are trying to gradually eliminate Repulika Srpska, but they are still obligated by Dayton agreement and do not know how to change constitution and terminate that entity without complete destabilization in region.
And there is strong resistance from Bosnian Serbs because Serbs can see every day relations in Muslim – Croat Federation and how Muslims want absolute domination, so Serbs are not fools to get into the same situation as Bosnian Croats who struggle against Muslim hegemony supported from EU and America.
So, yes Mr Martin, many people from Bosnia and Herzegovina will tell you that they do not hate anyone and that life in socialist Yugoslavia was much better. But at the same time they will not tell you that they are fully aware that it is past which will never come back and the reality is ethnic conflict.
That conflict is frozen and Pray God that war not happen again. This time it would be much worse than war from 1991 till 1996. But if political solution is not achieved, war will happen again.
And nobody yet has any idea what would be political solution acceptable for all three sides in conflict.
Bosnia and Herzegovina traditionally belong to all three ethnic groups equally and not any part of it was ever exclusively Muslim, Serbian or Croatian, but those times are past. Today, unfortunately, reality is opposite.
Tnx for this long explanation, I think it contains some truth.
For example, once I drove back and came through Republika Srpska, then on the way to Budapest via Orasje (as always, then via Slovakia and Zakopane, Krakow, Wroclaw etc.).
I thought I’m still in RS and at the benzinzkaya pumpa talked to a beautiful lady for a while.
We exchanged facebook addresses and wanted to write each other 100%.
However – I wrote her several times but never ever heard anything from her.
I think they reason may have been that I wrote my name for years in Cyrillic.
Because it was already on the muslim side again …
Now it makes sense.
Well, but some people are nevertheless as forgiving as I told you.
I watched Soviet march music videos with my friends and even strangers
So I doubt it was all only fake friendliness.
In any case it is a powder keg, not only since the ongoing conflict was frozen (Dayton 1995), but since the Congress of Berlin in 1878 created such injust borders (Croatia – all the cost, Bosnia: None at all, Neum doesn’t count) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Berlin
Bosnia still uses the KM (Konvertible DeutschMark). Although this is very bad because it shows how much BiH is a colony of the EU, nevertheless, to me it is always a pleasure to use the 1.95 exchange rate and de-facto the last surviving DeutschMark, because like99% of my fellow citizens I never wanted the damn EURo, but have never been asked.
I love Ukraine and Russia, and I love Bosnia and Serbia, plus before all: CCCP and Yugoslavia. Crazy life …
Maya – Pjevala bih da mi se ne place (2011)
Alma Subašić – Mene moja zaklinjala majka
Maya – Cestitam ti (2011)
What I like in Bosnian music and architecture is the unique inter-melting of Slavic language, culture and clear influences from the Orient.
Croatia certainly has a nice coast, but feels cold, too commercialized and too modern to me.
Crossing the SAVA is like floating into another continent :)
(if coming from Serbia and crossing the Drina the difference is much smaller).
Well, as said, Croatia is not my world: Too cold.
As you see I’m not racist.
But everyone should stay where it belongs (on the opposite side that’s why I need to leave this country, Germany, which is 20 mkillion times colder than even Croatia).
One song better than the next:
Maya – Kaldrma – (Official Video)
Yugoslavian magic in for ears and eyes.
(No, it’s not off-topic. The main article was about “Civilizational choice”)
I wished there were _NO_ religions and we all would live happily in the Soviet block once again.
(all current world-religions are in fact following cosmic constellations since Egyptian times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50 , and I meanwhile wonder if Erich von Daeniken is right wis his theories that thousands of years ago aliens came to earth and gave the Egyptians knowledge and skills that simply don’t match with the technology from back then, whatever, treating the Sun and brightness as God is certainly not a bad thing. As long as nobody starts religious WARS, but now we already came back to reality: Because these wars will probably never end before everything is destroyed).
Let’s ignore that and enjoy – I simply cannot get enough of Bosnian music, just found this:
Maya – Najveca ljubav tvoja – (Audio 2011) HD
Maya – Amajlija – (Audio 2011) HD
WTF: I just see that in the video the www domain shown ends in the TLD .rs!
So – is she a Serbian or a Bosnian ?!
One cannot tell it.
(And that evidently shows what we are talking about – no better proof than her!!)
I don’t care.
To me she is a Yugoslav beauty :)
Previous text was written by me, my nick is Bosnian Croat, just I forgot to put my details before I posted a comment.
I have a Bosnian-Croat friend in Visoko, near Zenica.
The Bosnian Croats are non so cold / western-style as the mainland Croats (especially from the northern part). Also much more tolerant towards Bosnians, Serbs and the PanSlavic idea.
In Bosnia and Serbia there is a speacial southern friendliness.
Orient meets Slavs. Croatia meanwhile feels like Hungary. Nothing against Hungarians! But it reminds me too much of the West. I bet you know what I mean. Everything is new. Everywhere straight lines. No happy people averywhere on the streets, but empty villages without shops, without music and without people.
And if you have a problem with the car nobody helps, unless for $$$$$.
In Serbia and Bosnia people are poor but help immediately, even for free.
It’s like in the East …
In East-Germany it was once the same.
Until 1989 :-(
When I read old Russian authors, it is clear that they are European. You can’t take the European-ness out of them. It is different than the European-ness of Germans, French, Italians, Poles, etc, but it is European none the less. Muscovites, and inhabitants of Peter are European, and so are they all the way down the Volga, and to the Caspian, and over to Kuban. & Krim. & all the rest. Perhaps one of the most stand out Russian characteristics, is a highly developed sense of irony. Maybe it is like a national characteristic. The people of intense irony. Scratch a Russian and find irony.
Yes,Russians (most) are a “European” ethnic people.But they live in a multi-ethnic state unique unto itself.They have lived there with their non-European citizens for hundreds of years.And just as the majority population of the US ,though of European ancestry is now an American people.The Russian people are more than just Europeans,they are a “Eurasian” people.With the best of both Worlds available to them.In today’s modern World there shouldn’t be a “struggle” over what we “call” them,are they European or Asian?,yes,is the answer to both choices in the question.Its also important to remember how the “peopling” of Europe itself came about.Most historical scholars believe that many of today’s historic “European” ethnic peoples originally came from either Asia or North Africa (the pre-historic peopling doesn’t count,since we really have no real concrete facts to go by).So what does it even mean to say a people is “European” or not.
Well written, UB.
Well written commentary. This multipolar world movement the Russians are part of is also multi religious and multi cultural, the idea being people respecting each other’s differences as much as they embrace their mutual similarities.
An excellent article Saker, thank you, you make the internet worthwhile. The direction that Russia is taking appears more and more impressive. Even a nonconformist must admit that organized religions are the most important social system after the state itself, a requirement for generational and spiritual continuity that cannot be set aside until a worthy successor is found (that is, until we humans better understand our place in the universal system). And having the religious forms established in law, as the president pointed out in his speech, makes tolerance for “cultural” differences a state requirement. It also places the state in the position of guarantor and more importantly the final arbiter of social rights. This is excellent, compared for example to the American idea of separation of church and state that results in a chaotic mess of “private” forms on top of what was obviously a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant supremacist state. Along with the Russian form of what appears to be moderate nationalism with the same multi-cultural foundation that is expressed in its churches; the requirement that Russia is a “social state” as Putin reminds us; and a mixed economy (whose financial aspects remain under construction), all this leads one to the idea that this century may belong to Russia. Quite a thought for anyone who has lived under the misimpression of western supremacy propagated by the western media matrix.
@The Saker, This is a great article, it is great because it shows that it is *possible* to have people of different faiths living together WITH mutual respect. Yes, that is what is preached in the West, presumably as part of “western values”, except that the West does not possess *any* of it.
The West seems practically *incapable* of truly accepting differences. To further explain what I mean, take the US for example. A very typical American example is like this: as soon as America passes some laws that it says it is great for the US (despite having taken a very long time to do so), it will immediately start preaching or lecturing on others on why they should also behave the same,i.e. have the same laws. A recent example is, obviously gay rights. I happen to have no problem with gay rights, but what I am trying to show is what is typical about American behavior – they would then immediately start using “no gay rights” as some kind of demonization weapon against country they do not like.
A better potential example would perhaps be the Death Penalty. the US still has it. But I swear, if in the near future, USA were to abolish the Death Penalty, Immediately, the next day, they will start sanctimoniously using it as a lecturing tool against other countries that it has no hold over, like some of the BRICs etc. I mean, here is a country that is born from practically wiping off almost all indigenious inhabitans of the continent, and yet, without even any apology, start lecturing on all other countries on how they are not treating well other minorities, even though they no next to nothing what’s really happening!
Western hypocrisy is limitless because it derives from the mania of seeing yourselves as demi-gods, which flows from the cult of ‘God’s Chosen People’, originally the Jews (no doubt other tribes had similar delusions, but they have been lost to history)but later adopted by the English, then the Yanks. Gays were persecuted ruthlessly in the West until the 1970s, after which their behaviour was ‘legalised’, while various churches and reactionary Rightwing politicians made their continuing disdain quite plain. However, Western elites soon saw ‘gay rights’ as a useful weapon to demonise and destabilise target societies, particularly where gays were left alone, but did not yet enjoy the ‘human right’ to march up and down proclaiming their ‘liberation’. Cuba was targeted for its ‘homophobia’ which derived from machismo, but, unfortunately, they have reached a societal understanding to live and let live, as their vibrant society has done in many fields, so that bludgeon is no longer available.
Russia, of course, has gotten the same treatment from vicious hypocrites whose societies persecuted gays only a few years ago, and who are close allies with really insanely homophobic regimes like the evil Saud regime, or the maniacal Musuveni regime in Uganda. Nice to see Putin, for real, contacting Elton John, and commiserating with the dear old queen over his being fooled by pranksters. Left to their own devices societies will, over time, grow more tolerant of difference, but once the interfering scum of ‘Western Civilisation’ poke their malicious beaks in, spreading discord and discontent, progress becomes impossible, just as ‘the West’ likes it.
Well said, MM.
Mulga Mumblebrain on September 26, 2015 · at 6:26 am UTC said:
“Left to their own devices societies will, over time, grow more tolerant of difference”
Yeah, just give them time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zdBxEm4cu0
Anon, bullying is of course cowardly, but the video had the look of a Pussy Riot-style staged fake. Ruptly TV has something to do with RT, apparently. Homophobia is not an exclusively Russian phenomenon, as the Western hate MSM would pretend. Here gay men are killed, and the killers regularly get off with lesser punishment, if they plead ‘gay panic’, ie that the gay man propositioned them, so they ‘panicked’ and kicked or bashed him to death. In like fashion women who kill they abusive husbands are often sentenced to long prison terms, even after years of violent abuse, and men who kill their partners in jealous rage or after years of abuse, quite often get lesser sentences. No society is perfect, but, as I argue, if malignant and interfering foreign forces are allowed to exploit social disharmony for political and propaganda purposes, the situation will only grow worse. And the West has no standing to lecture other societies on ‘morality’. None whatsoever.
Mulga Mumblebrain on September 28, 2015 · at 1:02 am UTC said:
“Homophobia is not an exclusively Russian phenomenon”
I didn’t say that it was
Mulga Mumblebrain said:
“No society is perfect”
Nor that. I don’t believe mankind deserves to exist.
“but, as I argue, if malignant and interfering foreign forces are allowed to exploit social disharmony for political and propaganda purposes”
This social disharmony is supported by Russian government policy. I don’t know if homphobic attacks in the “West” have decreased over the years – i’m not looking for the lowest common denominator. Russian government policy makers are sympathetic to the wishes of the bigoted population mass. This infers they are either homphobic themselves or partake in a popularity race for the worst of reasons.
Mulga Mumblebrain said:
“the situation will only grow worse.”
It doesn’t need to if they change their bigoted policies.
Mulga Mumblebrain said:
“And the West has no standing to lecture other societies on ‘morality’. None whatsoever.”
Well, Anon, I agree with some of what you say. I do not accept, however, that the Russian Government are actively homophobic. I believe that to be Western agit-prop, and as I observed, stirring up social tension over homosexuality is a deliberate, and despicable, Western tactic to spread social discord. In fact the greatest enemy of gay people in Russia are just those Western hypocrites who claim to be supporting them. You really lost me with your ‘I don’t believe mankind deserves to exist’. I differ, seeing humanity as still possibly being able to achieve real moral and spiritual eminence, just so long as the really evil members of humanity are disempowered and treated as the moral, spiritual and psychological detritus that they are. Why do you think that all humanity does not deserve to exist? Are we really all such a lost cause?
“The notable exception to this was the Ottoman Empire which has always viciously persecuted Orthodox Christianity, but that kind of behavior was always an Ottoman characteristic, not a Muslim one.”
This needs a bit more explaining. Why particularly Orthodox Christianity? Was it because they were Christians (or non Muslims) or would they have been persecuted anyway regardless of the religion due to their occupying a particular location or their political response to the Ottomans or other reasons?
Did the Ottomans persecute people who were Muslims but behaved politically in the same way that Orthodox Russians behaved? If so, it would add support to the above statement.
Good questions Jiri!
I have the impression Arab Muslims of the Levant hate their former coloniser almost as much as we do. Regarding the confrontation with orthodoxy, I agree it was probably a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
***Anon, please explain your links. This is Sheikh Imran Hosein – mod
The bogus so called islamic ottoman empire does NOT represnet muslims, thats what the video is about. Thank you
Dang! I wish I can get me a Russian passport. Living in Russia must be very exciting in these times.
a question of race. while this is not the whole picture it is very much there. Just image that the refugees would be Black from central Africa and you will see something, anyhow…
the white west has dominated, enslaved the planet for 500 year. While creating the meanest and vilest atrocities in South America Africa Asia and Oceania -and mercilessly plundering the tropics and still doing so- It has considered and considers its race and civilization as the utmost of human development. At present while the white west now counts only a fraction of the worlds population and while the Global South is rising (and no stopping that), the white west feels threatened, and it is loosing controle.
It will do anything and that means anything, to keep that position. At first great britain was the fag beared but now the US. Under the US hegemon we have its close accomplices UK, Canada and Australia, futher down its vasals germany france etc and its lakies the Balkan Scandinavia. It is so clear all these white countries form one block under the authority of US. (Woe to the state that wants to liberate itself )What about Russia and Israel? Israel is the white bastion in the middle east and the whites will defend it. What about Russia? Russia is white. Russia only has to open Siberia to the hegemon and its accomplices and vassals and serve it and it will be welcomed home and Putin will turn to a hero. Russia will become the white bastion for the east. but russia is not only white it is a multi etnic country
It is? was the bridge between the west and the east. It’s roots are both east and west. Now Russia is indeed before a choice. the west has collapsed. Its institutions, democratiy justice ethics religion etc are in a state of total collapse. That explains its bewilderment. And where will it find the strength to withstand the fall ? In evil where it has always found a resource in times of need. But the evil has overun the west and it is evil and the demons of darkness that rule there.
But action and reaction are equal but opposite. That explains the growing opposition to the darkness the opposition includes and equals all people everywhere on this planet It is there in the west east and south. And its is there were Russia’s choice lies. if Russia opens itself to the West it will fail and if Russia fails the rest will follow and the world will sink in the depts of the kali yuga. But the cracks in the utter darkness grow and the golden light of the future shines through them ever stronger.
This article gives hope and I pray it is true. Russia look to the East.( global south)
ps I am not religious myself and find that over the last 2000- 2500 years religion has not been able to really civilize mankind. I see this period also as the end of religions point let us live in the wideness and freedom of the Spirit above all contrary dogmas and limiting practices and especially free from hell.
Sorry to ruin your anti-white culturalmarxist fantasies there, but “whites” have not done anything that has not already been done before and many times on whites by none-whites.
Also the “white” western governements are not doing anything to protect their “white western people” English are now a minority in London, same is true all over Europe.
What are you talking about? What non-whites exploiting whites? If you mean from the Middle Ages,the Mongols,or the Arabs in Spain maybe.Well,the Mongols exploited everybody they conquered,White,Brown,Yellow.And the Arabs only cared if you fought them,if you converted or remained peaceful they left you alone,no matter your color (BTW Arabs from that time were Caucasian (White) themselves.Also BTW London’s white population is 60% according to the stats.
“Also the ‘white’ western governements are not doing anything to protect their ‘white western people’ “
It is, in fact, true that the predominantly white LIE (Liberal Imperialist Establishment) is treating its previously deeply grovelling Western subjects with ever more boldness, bluntness, and outright contempt. In today’s world, LIE only enjoys the burning love and devotion of 30 years earlier here among the total retards in Eastern Europe. However, the beneficiaries of Western imperialism willingly brought this change upon themselves. They were, for the most part, very happy to parrot Massa’s infantile, neoliberal garbage and get showered in private debt while the productive base of the economy was destroyed. And what about that great and glorious embodiment of Western society known as “Parliamentary Democracy” ? A silly joke which the banks and big corporations no longer even bother to pretend taking seriously — TTIP being a clear case in point. Spying, surveillance, lawlessness, austerity, and unending wars. Whitey feeling duly betrayed.
Nice summation, Nussiminen. The plutocrats who rule the West regard their serfs with fear and hatred, as they have throughout history and always will for obvious pathopsychological reasons. For thirty years after WW2 they granted the peasants some social progress, but only out of fear of communism. Once Gorbachev surrendered, and China and India went neo-liberal, the rulers of the West were free to return to their preferred social arrangement-feudalism. Indeed the reaction set in during the 1970s, and has been growing more extreme ever since, thus greater and greater inequality, greater indebtedness, more precarious, low-paid and de-meaning ‘work’ and more raw elite arrogance and contempt. I do rather suspect that the takeover of Western politics by Jewish Fifth Columns has exacerbated these tendencies, too, because the elite’s innate contempt for the non-elite mirrors Judaic behaviour towards the goyim, seen in the growth of Jewish dominated industries, like credit cards, pay-day lending, on-line gambling, pawn shops, human organ trafficking etc, where hyper-exploitation is pitiless and relentless, just as it was for centuries in Europe. Leopards don’t change their God-given spots, after all. And with Western economies hollowed-out of productive work, more and more dominated by the raw parasitism of the financial interests and politics and the MSM moving relentlessly Right, the Bosses require foreign demons to distract the serfs. The Moslems, naturally, the Zionazis being intent on creating the ‘Clash of Civilizations’ that their mouth-piece Huntington predicted, to Israel’s benefit, and with Russia, China and anyone else who refuses to toe the Boss in Mordor-on-the-Potomac’s line, unquestioningly, next.
An eloquent rant ( as always).
I am largely in agreement (as usual.)
Except to say: feudalism is far from being a ‘white vice.It was the centuries of brutal feudalism that laid the groundwork for China’s Communist Revolution. And it is still deeply authoritarian in terms of its social/economic structures.
Feudalism was not, nor yet is an exclusively white vice. . Some 10th century warlord’s foot fetish resulted in centuries of ‘golden lily’ agony, mutilation even death for countless Chinese women. There are Chinese women still alive with this crippling. Or does the oppression of women not count?
Ever see ‘China Blue’? The young girls who made all those western jeans could barely scrape together the price of a dish of tea and lived, cheek by jowl, in conditions like refugees. Meanwhile, the ex-Communist cop-turned factory owner (male) complained about the incursions the business made into his calligraphy hobby. What kind of ‘communism’ is this? Those girls were experiencing *exactly * the conditions Engels – a white German – railed against. Nearly one hundred and fifty years ago.
India is no beacon to egalitarianism either.. It still perpetuates the caste system in in its political and social structures. And it has an enormous impoverished underclass .
Temple prostitution, forced sterilization and rape-as-punishment of women and girls for family members wrong-doing is still happening in India (this last practice had a case only two weeks ago.)
So let’s keep things in some kind of historical perspective – mass cruelty, injustice, abuse is by means an exclusively ‘white’ vice.
Why do male comparative judgements persist in throwing half the human race under the bus?
The human race in toto has still along way to go.
Dear Llif Sir,
indeed living in a multicoloured environment can be very enriching and widen once horizon of perception. What i wrote is based on what I can see everyday here. I always saw communism as state c(r)apitalism and a dogmatic religion minus god. I have never been marxist not even in 68.
social justice yes anyone against it?
What is the characteristic of race? It is that your ancestors lived in a place nearer or further away from the sun, in a land bordered or not bordered by oceans, having or not having mountains and forests. Did you choose this characteristic? No. You were born with it. And most of us were born from very mixed parentage because like the immigrants today, our ancestors were always on the move.
You, a free spirit, came onto this earth by means of parents who had parents who had parents, right back to those strange individuals whose bones scientists unearth and puzzle over. And these days they say, those scientists, that we all derive parentage from Africa. At least, in Africa is where such ancient bones may be found.
Let it be as the scientists say. Whites and blacks have common parentage. Religious folk and the scientific community agree. Those who want power over us love it when we exaggerate our differences. Divided, they conquer. United, we do.
You should always name your source when spouting such theories of origins. Your source in the Western one, Anglo to be precise. Have you heard of Charles Darwin, a famous plagiarizer of the Herbert Spencer’s work, although you will never hear about that in Western media and education. But that is beside the point. He was the man from whom the idea about “ape origins of humans” came, and since almost all varieties of apes can be found in Africa, he took Africa as the continent from where humans originated in his theory.
But there is no evidence that proves his theory. None whatsoever. Darwin was a man who had very close relations with British aristocracy, and his theory (no doubt done in service of Anglo oligarchy plans and schemes), was used to advance atheism. So you see, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are spouting some Western stories which are nothing but lies and propaganda.
According to those Western stories native American population came to America from Siberia, yet ask yourself then, how is it possible that they had reddish skin color indicative of extended sun exposure and not pale? If Siberia was their homeland, their skin would be pale. Western stories are nothing but lies and propaganda, my callow, simple friend.
@Republika Srpska on September 26, 2015 · at 4:18 pm UTC,
so, our simple spouter, what sort of mechanism makes you exceptional?
@Republiika Sprska – just so you know, Juliania is a valuable commenter with a track record of making sense and contributing, . The point she made in her comment was not the one you addressed, and the one you addressed was not one she made. Maybe you should go back and read it – the conclusion is in the last paragraph and it’s a crucially important point, about how we lose when we attack each other. Some irony to ponder there ;)
Perhaps you should consider whether calling people names will get you very far in any discussion based on reason. In some forums, using ad hominem attacks against people would get you banned. And in any venue, ego-tripping is always distasteful.
Commenting on the subject in front of you, regardless of the history, makes sense. In some areas people are experts but as the proverb says “Cobbler, stick to your last”.
Complete the following : “Ego-tripping is distasteful, but lofty lecturing is …..”
PJ, ‘…lofty lecturing is its own reward’.
Mulga Mumblebrain on
September 28, 2015 · at 1:22
“PJ, ‘…lofty lecturing is its own
But in the case of Larchmonter, High Pontiff (by self-admission) , ours too. :)
I’m with you juliania-there is one race. The human race. Many societies, but one race where 90% plus of our behaviour is shared whether one is a Bantu, Eskimo or Celt. The Bosses represent a parasitic tendency rooted in psychology, and they have plagued humanity down to today. Will we ever be rid of them?
The more ethnically/culturally/religiously homogeneous the better, sadly Russia is an empire with many ethnicity native to its regions, so Russia would either have to give up lots of territory or accept being multiethnic and try its best to make it work.
And it somewhat works, sometimes there are civil wars and large ethnic conflicts, and sometimes the ethnic conflicts are just on an individual level.. Ethnic Russians seeing themselves become minority in a region and start to worrry, or some ethnic minority seeing themselves poor and ethnic Russians rich and feeling resetment, I mean it is never good, ethnic diversity promotes ethnic loyalties and ethnic nationalism and these are at the same time dangerous to the multiethnic societies.. Russia is doing it best to promote nationalism – but not to much! Or to little, or to ethnic specific.. It is a constant burden.
Meanwhile something like 50% of all ethnic Russians want all immigrants deported from Russia, both legal and illegal.
Russia has chosen the path of multiethnic traditionalism, while the west(western elites to be specific) has chosen the path of multiethnic culturalmarxism.
Very well written. If you recall, I pointed out before that it won’t be long before George Soros and his MSM start spreading the “divine message” to the faithful:
“Putin and ISIS plot against the Democracies from all-new Terror Mosque near the Kremlin”
Moreover, as Unz Review wrote above:
“It is not a coincidence that the same city which now will host the biggest mosque in Europe also banned ‘gay pride’ parades for the next 100 years.”
Right. Hence, there will be “rampant homophobia” coming out of that mosque as well.
The following assertion, however, is patently false:
“None of that means that Russia must necessarily be in any way hostile to the West”
How cute: You need not be in any way hostile to your self-confessed mortal enemy. OK, fine. Then I suppose Putin could, after all, very well try staging a gay parade on Red Square featuring, inter alia, Pussy Riot in the kind belief that the West will suddenly lose its interest in appropriating Russia’s wealth for free. Suchlike miracles, sadly, are too good to be true. Ain’t gonna happen. Hence, no need to ask any open-ended questions a la “time will tell”. History has spoken in no uncertain terms on this subject.
Good. We should pay attention to reforming our religion though. New Testament teachings has to be curbed, Jesus treated as a prophet like many others before him and not some “son of God” or “part of God”. We need to go back to the beginnings, back to the true teachings of Jahweh.
This is very educational. Everyone should read it. It’s in episodes, so you’ll have to advance through parts of that great Rosenberg’s work. It’s well worth the time.
Why going _back_?
Why not going forward to Marx, Lenin and Stalin?
Just wondering …
Damn, it is hopeless with these earthlings …
I think you might be indoctrinated. Teachings of liberalism, leninism or marxism have no place in our culture. I am talking about much, much older things.
Forgot to add, martin. Those are all Western ideologies. We are not Westerners.
good luck with the next middle ages then
These things are much, much older than the period of Middle Ages, even the early one. Thanks anyway. We shall build our morality to stand straight as humans do, you in the West on the other hand… well, I wouldn’t put my money on you. Chances are you going to resemble animals more and more. You often chastise Zionists in your posts, yet you should know that those ideologies you hold so dearly come from them. Liberalism comes too. You think those ideologies are somehow good, religions bad? Religions build morality, and without morality to guide people’s actions, civilization cannot exist. What are those political ideologies good for, what have they done for the people they are supposed to serve? Indoctrination of people like you? Justifying political/oligarchic class of taking more and more power into their hands? Because it is not good for anything else. They don’t build morality, they don’t serve the people but rulers. Read max Webber how your Protestant religion advanced your society to become what it has been. You will learn a lot.
Where do you define the border between “East” and “West” to be located?
Simplification and abstractions can sometimes help, but one has to use them with caution.
If you go too much to the “East” you might end up in the “West”, ahh, sorry, I forgot: You still live in a world where the earth is a slice.
After I wasted 10 hours trying to defend your Serbia last night, now I get this in return for it, I think I cannot migrate to DonBass or Russia. Maybe to PMR/CCCP only.
And I will find better uses of my time than staying on this theological religious forum here trying to help nations that every 2nd poster interprets in 10 completely different ways.
And, be careful: NEVER in your life directly nor indirectly call me a Westerner ever again.
Message from Moderator – MfromEB and Mohamed please stop attacking each other otherwise your posts will be deleted. No personal attacks please.Mod TR
@ Mohamed :
I told you: Don’t write me.
Now you are making fun of it whenever you can, as good as you can.
Scientific level from you yet another time, as always.
Ok, I have enough. Go to your Mosque and continue with all your religiously motivated WARS from whatever sides.
Humankind didn’t learn a thing.
My proposal: Let’s all go back the the age of Apes, they are less “western” than somebody like me who has ruined his software community / business chances to help DonBass:
Plus I bet even older than all religions/sects discussed on this site.
Weren’t that the criteria?
Ahh, it was meant differently?
Believe in your men in the cloud.
In all these men-made so called “religions”.
From old Egyptian times on always the same stories of the 12 Apostels.
Always the same story framed a bit differently. And another “God” every 100 kilometers.
Do that, rather than thinking about ways to solve the real problems, like the thousands of children dying from HUNGER every MINUTE on this planet.
Rather than saying “Salam” or “Salaam” or “Shalom” 500 times per hour to anybody.
No: That won’t clean your soul! Only reducing world-hunger could, but you are more interested in building Churches and Mosques from stine, gold and hundreds of millions of Dollars.
So then – but without me!
I had expected more.
Martin, it appears to me the moderator has sided with you on your attacks of Mohamed…
sorry, I just had to work on other projects for a few hours,
Including: being asleep for 3hrs ;)
Now a new day has begun.
Argh, don’t worry.
I must spend less time here anyway. It is a time-trap.
Bigger projects need to be fullfilled in my life than destroying my nerves with certain non-get’ers.
No, the Moderation is excellent here. That’s what I do respect so much with Saker. He is fair and respects different (and differing) opinions, that’s very rare and good.
But I must earn money, and it cannot be done while sitting here around the clock.
I may say hello from time to time, but cannot continue 24x7x365.
The above is not my quote. I just quoted it from above the post of mine, so to highlight it.
My children are half Westerners and half Easterners.
Ok. You can migrate to us, no problem. :) We’ll accept you. But I wasn’t referring to you personally, but you” meaning you as German people.
Ouch, what happened.
In the middle of typing a sentence somehow the messages was sent prematurely.
Where did I stop: You cannot imagine how much I hat the West and would like to migrate.
But such things are not simple.
I still have relatives here and also no money.
But one day I will, that’s a 100% matter of fact.
German people: Please do not generalize.
Millions(!) are pro-Russian, pro-Serbian.
But their voices are suppressed.
Why not go back to budhism then
Actually, Republika Srpska, you do have a valid point here. Marxism and Liberalism are indeed two foreign Western imports, both of them dating back to the 19th century. And both Western Liberals and Western Marxists wallow in Western colonial arrogance and ignorance. The real significance of Stalin prevailing over Trotsky is precisely that the socialist, revolutionary, and nationally confident line was put in command, liberating swaths of countries from Euro-fascism and Western imperialism. Trotskyism is the exact opposite: Eurocentric, zionist, and totally impotent.
Hence, when the Anglo-Zionists and their Trotskyist parrots keep attacking Putin with their usual tripe, it shows that Putin puts Russia’s well-being ahead of the concerns of the glorious West.
Well said, Nussiminen . And that’s why I admire Lenin, Stalin and Putin.
To some this looks like a contradiction, but to the more advanced it makes perfect sense.
But maybe my earlier comments in that direction were not seen by all. I notice a lot of newcomers recently.
My take exactly as well, Martin. Here is a blogger, by the way, who has something quite convincing to say about the Western Left and its vile infatuation with faggotry Really refreshing — enjoy!
RS, I’m mildly curious. Are you Jewish?
Thank you again, Saker, for another stunning picture of the beautiful new Muslim edifice in Moscow, and your explanation of that tradition in Russian historical memory.
As others point out here there are as well European aspects, particularly in the arts. It is not insignificant that some of the beautiful cathedrals had Italian architects, much of the gorgeous poliphonic church music built also on classical music structures, and literature took its flight from the glories of such as Shakespeare, Moliere, Cervantes.
It is very true that Russia took these and beautified them in its own unique fashion, just as they took the structures of iconography and uplifted those. But to deny these roots is to deny Pushkin, Tolstoi, Dostoievski, Tchaikovski, Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff – you can’t do it.
There is a common, human ideal that is neither East nor West, that rises above all the differences in the great men of our common human history. I would have wished, as an American, that such an edifice as this had been built in the heart of the conflict that has arisen in these torturous days – the City of New York, which was the first capital of the nation. We didn’t get that. But that would have called on this country’s traditional values, as has happened in Russia. The history is different; the ideals are the same.
For any that missed the address of Pope Francis to Congress (as I did, and as the Supreme Court Justices Alito, Scalia, Thomas did) here is the link provided by Ben at Moon of Alabama.org:
We would have to humble ourselves to listen to the inflections and mispronunciations and slow cadence of the speech. Francis is asking for a dialogue on the most important human traditional values. We ought to be having that dialogue.
Rossiya: Be careful with such choices.
Look at the EU to what this can lead to:
You remember the trolls calling several articles here “baseless fiction” or “totally hysterical, needs a doctor”.
WELL, then read on:
German nurse shocked after being forced out of flat to make way for refugees
“””””Having lived in the same flat for 16 years, a German woman is being forced to move out to make way for refugees, because building a new shelter is too expensive. The 51 year-old nurse, who has helped asylum seekers in the past, was shocked by the news.
Bettina Halbey, who lives alone in the small town of Nieheim, received a letter from her landlord and the local municipality at the start of September, Die Welt newspaper reported on Thursday.
“I was completely shocked and I can’t even begin to find the words to describe how the city has treated me,” Halbey told the German publication. “I have had to go through a lot of difficulties recently, and then I get this notice. It was like a kick in the teeth.”
Halbey will have until May 2016 to find a new place to live, along with her dog and her cat. The three-story building, where she rented a 90 sq/m flat will now be turned into accommodation for refugees, who are seeking to make Germany their new home.
READ MORE: ‘No more refugees’: Arson attack destroys future German migration center (VIDEO)
The mayor of Nieheim, Rainer Vidal, which has a population of just over 6,000, defended the decision to send the nurse packing, saying converting the building would be “the cheapest option.”
“A new residential unit for 30 refugees in Nieheim would cost €30,000 ($33,600). This solution will cost me nothing,” he told Die Welt.
Over half the population of Germany lives in rented accommodation and the country has laws to defend the rights of tenants.
“Normally, only a private individual can terminate the terms of a contract for personal use. A municipality cannot move into a flat as a legal entity, so the process is legally highly questionable,” Ulrich Ropertz, spokesman of the German Tenants’ Federation, told the Telegraph.
Halbey, who brought up two sons as a single parent, became so incensed by the decision that she wrote about her plight on Facebook. The social media reaction was instant. Over 200,000 people have shared her story, which was also picked up by the German media.
The nurse says that she is not against Germany taking in refugees and she says she got on well with asylum seekers who had earlier become her neighbors.”””””
The above action on the nurse is a good way to create hatred. And, you are King of spreading The Hatred.
“The above action on the nurse is a good way to create hatred. And, you are King of spreading The Hatred.”
No Salam, no “dearest brother” Martin?!?
I thought you loved everybody equality and indiscriminately, no matter if they are pacifists, pedophiles or liver-eating cannibals, (god bless Putin, god bless Assad, god bless Obama [might as well throw the nazi queen in there too]… et al) they’re all dear brothers/sisters to you, aren’t they?
But what just happened there in that unloving comment of yours?!? A glitch in the Matrix? Either that, or your all-loving types can’t handle rejection very well… :/
I hope you do notice the divide and rule. The refugees are welcomed, and in their names the nurse is being removed from her abode. Of course, who is she going to hate, not the ones who are kicking her out, but the refugees.
And, in the first place who created the 3 million refugees in Syria. Now, the EU is whining about taking a hundred thousand able bodied people, who were educated by the Syrian government.
Lately, the Saker blog is again full of trolls, but that is nothing new. Probably time for Saker to do the house cleaning again!
Since when are you posting to Saker’s blog?
I never saw you until a few days ago.
Because the Moderation team said something a few lines higher that I respect, in contrast to you.
In the past it was a nicer place here.
I wish you peace of mind, “dearest brother”.
“Since when are you posting to Saker’s blog?
I never saw you until a few days ago [..]”
Sorry to inform you Martin, this guy’s been around here for a long time (so was I, btw, only reading, not posting, but that’s how I know)
I’m not preaching to you dude, but that’s how the ‘unwritten protocols’ of blogs go… you’re supposed to read-on, familiarize yourself with the consensus and also get a ‘feeling’ of that particular blog’s community [the comments] before signing-up and/or posting. If you say the wrong thing, or worse; to the wrong person… they will be sniping at you from all corners [yeah, that‘s how humans group themselves into ‘inner-circle’ little cliques… don‘t get me started…]
BTW: I’m not saying that’s what happened to you here, if anything, the community did embraced you and most seem to welcome (myself included) your updates from Germany :)
I agree … many of us have been here a long time reading just sitting quietly.
I value all comments as we learn from each.
I can only repeat what I said a few days ago ‘ thumbs down to the vitriol that has emerged between some commentators’.
So peace dear virtual friends – there are bigger and more important issues at hand to focus on.
Right on, Babushka in Oz.
Unprovoked random attacks are childish, and I’m too old to pretend that I’m back in high-school dealing with the cool-kids vs. the nerds, or whatever…
Accusing people of being a troll, or a zionazi, is just as ridiculous as when in the MSM comment-sections, for supporting Russia, we’re accused of being ‘Putler-bots’ or Kremlin trolls. That’s called character assassination, btw, not strawmanning as most seem to believe it‘s called, at least in a strawman situation, there’s some form of argument going on, however mendacious it may be. Character assassination seeks to smear the veracity/credibility/integrity/intentions of the targeted person not the message and there lays the difference. Both sucks balls, btw.
I have no problems with people disagreeing, they have every right to disagree, there’s always a good chance they came across information I didn’t, or they have a better thought-out argument that I haven’t thought of.
There are constructive exchanges (even if they escalate into heated debates) and then… there’s just throwing baseless accusations around for no good reason.
“So peace dear virtual friends – there are bigger and more important issues at hand to focus on.”
There were countless peace demonstrations in Germany and other EU countries, against these illegal western wars.
Here some links:
Mahnwache Berlin 21.04.2014 – Rede von Jürgen Elsässer (Compact Magazin)
Jürgen Elsässer auf Erfurter Montagsdemo 26. Mai
There are all these antiwar speeches by the Left-Party, especially Sarah Wagenknecht:
(don’t find a link with english subs, but readers who were on this thise earlier than 3 days ago may have seen the link I posted about her earlier this month)
There are millions of voters who elected this Left party!
What you do not understand is that the average Germans and average EU citizens are equally as much victims of the Western aggression, as those migrants are.
You say I shall understand this divide and conquer game?
Well, I do, but you see only parts of it.
We here have absolutely NO VOICE.
Media are lying day in day out.
I’m not responsible for the West bombing Syria.
In fact I got excluded from the Illumos UNIX kernel developers mailing list in 2013 when I warned them that the US wants to destroy Syria and threatened Russia to committ terror attacks during the Sochi Olympics. And that not Assad committed the gas attack on civilians, but that it was a false flag.
I’m not Merkel nor Obama, but FIGHTING AGAINST THEM via social media.
But it may take you a few years until you notice …
“There were countless peace demonstrations in Germany and other EU countries, against these illegal western wars.”
It never fails to amaze me how people make blanket condemnations of an entire people who have no control over their government’s actions, when those making the complaint likewise have no control over their own. Seriously, the hypocrisy on this site is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
“Of course, who is she going to hate, not the ones who are kicking her out, but the refugees.”
That’s your assumption. Bit paranoid if you ask me.
Ebear, get real…as if the landlords aren’t to blame…they’re getting paid to kick out their tenants…obviously
Confused much? Go back and read what I said, and the point I was replying to.
Exactly, Mohamed. I was thinking the same thing…Those landlords…of which I’ve had my experience are the ones doing this to the nurse. The landlords are getting paid to kick out their tenants. There should be laws to protect them….there are laws to prevent this, in the USA of all places.
I live here. I will defend my place against invaders, no matter who they are.
I’m not spreading hatred. But I dare to speak out the truth and even you won’t prevent me from it.
I have always defended Palestinians, my social media profiles are full of Pro-Palestinian and Anti-Zionist posts.
Al-Aqsa preacher: Take the refugees, we will conquer you and on you to rum blockheads (Europe will be a Kaliphate!)
Facebook video: New everyday life in the border area of Austria – Hungary
Radical Islamists Recruit Refugees in Germany
Gulf Emirates have supported terror through charitable organizations
Instrumentalisierende Kriegsführung [Flüchtlinge als Kriegswaffe?!] | 29.08.2015 | http://www.kla.tv
I have a right to be afraid of them, the majority of them consists of ECONOMIC migrants, rather than true refugees deserving asylum. They not only look like invaders, they in fact are.
If they weren’t they could stop in the first safe/secure country, which they don’t do.
Dramatic pictures! “refugees” you will never see on TV
But its true.So the way to stop hate, is to not do hateful things.Just hiding the doing solves nothing.That story is all over Germany and on RT.That town is dumber than a box of rocks (as well as breaking the law).
Salam Uncle Bob 1,
One should not hide the truth, but at one should be careful not to spread Hatred. Spreading Hatred is doing the bidding of The Tribe.
I think that the Muslim community in Germany should come out and condemn moves like that.Yes I know they are scrambling to try and help the refugee’s.But allowing things like that to happen breeds more problems than it solves.Muslims in Germany can not let themselves be tarred with the taking of homes from unwilling Germans.That does far more harm to them than a apartment for refugee’s would ever solve.
“Spreading Hatred is doing the bidding of The Tribe.”
Anyone else see the glaring contradiction in that statement?
Ebear from 1:34:
Not being a Zionist nor a Judeo-supremacist, no.
From the Moderator – ebear, no attacking of commenters please – stick to the article. Your comment has been edited.Mod TR
Nice turn around there. Not being anti-semitic.
My world, which incidentally is Canada, not Israel.
Shooting the wrong messenger here.
ebear – you’re just egging on the divide part of the equation. I agree with vot tak…you’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Anonymous – I agree with Ann and вот так here.
(What has happened to this comments section over just the last few days out of a sudden?!)
Despite the attempt by promoters of the Outlaw Empire early in its existence to claim it’s a “melting pot” of peoples, Russia is a far better example. Putin’s speech at the mosque’s opening was very welcoming to muslims. Nothing of the kind could ever occur within the extremely bigoted Outlaw Empire. You’ll never see such a grand mosque built in North America or the attitude it takes to accept it.
Here’s a list of mosques in the USA.
Keep scrolling, it’s a very long list.
Thanks for the list. Yep, not one Grand Mosque amongst them. But then Russia has a different perspective of how church and state act.
“not one Grand Mosque amongst them”
Perhaps American muslims don’t feel the need to make grand political statements?
It is, after all a place of worship. Once you’re out of the rain, what more do you need?
First and foremost, Russia’s Grand Mosque was a State sponsored project paid for by Russia’s taxpayers–from all faiths and none. The Islamophobia reigning in the Outlaw Empire has seen planned construction of numerous mosques canceelled–talk about “political statements.” You need to be out of the rain to worship? That’s too bad. Many of the Mystery Religions, of which Christianity was once, worshiped in the rain because it was “God’s Seed,” which made perfect sense.
The symbolic power of this is well understood.
_HOWEVER_: Be careful to never make conditions too convenient to them.
Autotranslation from German:
Analysis of Hungary: Potentially 35 million migrants could come to Europe
Epoch Times, Friday, 25th of September, 2015 19:48
Hungarian foreign minister Peter Szijjarto on the table brings shocking figures as the British “express” reports. The minister spoke of a potentially immense number in economic refugees which is on the way to Europe.
Migrants threaten to jump out of the window in Berlin:
Mass brawl in asylum accommodation
The times of sinking unemployment come to an end
For years the German job market was resistant to crisis. With it it might be over in 2016 first of all. The big number of refugees might also leave on the job market her tracks, expect economists.
Building such a mosq in Moscow is a “Hello We Love You” icon like Merkel’s “We take everybody”.
Don’t one day be surprised if the migration stream re-directs to Russia!
You have been warned.
actually, they should go to Russia…Siberia…they’d do well in the agricultural give-aways.
Haha, please no.
Then this idea of mine also runs out!
Also: There they must work night and day and nevertheless cannot drive a new BMW.
I doubt this is tempting to most of them …
(I know what I’m talking about, I live in Berlin)
Europe’s largest mosque is Grand Mosque of Paris opened for prayers in 1926. It has the capacity for over 30,000 worshippers as compared to Moscow mosque which can accommodate only 10,000 worshippers.
French historian Gustave Le Bon in his book, The Civilization of the Arabs, admitted the huge influence of Muslim civilization which, for him, civilized the barbarian peoples who destroyed the Roman Empire and opened for Europe the world of scientific, literary, and philosophical knowledge of which it was ignorant. In a word, for Le Bon it was the Muslims who civilized Europe.
Moscow Grand Mosque also known as Cathedral Mosque and Jum’ah Mosque was originally built in 1905, but was closed for renovation and expansion four years ago. Turkey’s Religious Affairs Ministry provided the interior design of the 204,500 square feet renovated mosque.
Moscow with 1.5 million Muslim population, has only four proper mosques, which makes very difficult for Muslim communities to hold large gatherings especially on Fridays and two Eids. Compared to Moscow, Toronto, my home city, is home to nearly half of Canada’s one million Muslims population. The city is adorned by a dozen beautiful mosques. The very first city mosque, Jaffari Shia Mosque, was designed by a Jewish woman architect from Bosnia.
You said it all.
Thank you so much.
In the future RF reunified Bessarabia, we
will again hug , live with our Gagauz brothers
and our Armenians, Bulghars, even left overTurks (which my forebears fought fiercely),
Shamans, Gypsies and sing with Romanians.From the
Pruth to the Dnjestr down to the Black Sea and Odessa.
My word in God’s ear !
The heroic Donbass is spearheading Bessarabia’s/Moldawia’s liberation and reunification with the
Motherland – the Lands of the RUS.
Salam on All of You,
China has already joined Russia in Syria!
Let me first start by stating that i enjoy the saker’s input on most things and his analysis is usually very sobering. Thus I visit his site regularly because it has much to offer. However, when the argument drifts to religion he has in my opinion the tendency to put his personal prejudices in the way and things start to drift. Fist of all, everything is very simplistic. He does not for one moment for example mention the fact that the Islamic advance into Russia was a secondary objective for the Ottomans in particular. it is only thanks to the war of attrition in the mediterranean littoral, that the Ottomans did not not have either the time or resources to advance on Russia itself. for example, whilst mobilizing for the Great siege of Malta, Sulemein received a letter of utmost urgency from the Khan of Crimea pleading with him to send him reinforcements and the Sublime Porte replied that he had to take care of himself because all of the imperial resources where mobilized to take Malta. this is but ONE instance. like the NAZIs had 80% of the effort fighting in the east, the ottomans had 80% of their effort fighting in the West – but you never get a notion of this here. This is why perhaps relations in Russia with Islam developed differently from that in the West – it was never the primary target. for example in 1550, in our sister Island of Gozo, the Ottomans carried the ENTIRE population into slavery.. and it is neither perfectly true that that Russia was all honky dory with Islam whilst the West (and by West I don’t mean America, I mean Catholic Spain and the Italian republics) was always antagonistic. for starters cooperation between the Catholic West and Orthodox Russia was more common than one thinks to the point that a Russian Tsar was elected Grand Master of the crusading order of the Knights of St John. Lines as always were blurred – to put it differently is a disservice. To place the “Anglo-zionists” in the same basket as the “Papacy” is beyond childish – it is a LIE. The Catholic Church was always more preoccupied with the heresy of protestantism than its schismatic sister in the East. An objective study of this subject will prove this a 100 times over. What the protestant revolution has also demonstrated so clearly – is that there were dukes and princes, who when it suited them perfectly, used ‘religion’ as an umbrella to further their own very temporal ambitions. Yes unfortunately, relations between East and West have been far from ideal, and the history is far from simple – but we face a choice – either to wallow in the mistakes of the past or to look to the future. I for one, despite being a Catholic have a great admiration fo Orthodoxy. I am also learning to respect ‘traditional’ Islam as opposed to the band that my nation has suffered so much from. Indeed I find more in common with them than with the brand of ‘American’ Christianity. So let us move on, long live Russia, Long live Putin, Long live all people of GOOD WILL. May the meek indeed inherit the earth.
Ottoman rulers never pretended to be Caliph. They’re imperial Muslim rulers just like Orthodox Russian Czars. However, the fact remains than many Jews and Christians preferred to live under Ottomans than Czars. Even today, the Russian-Israeli author Israel Shamir is begging Ottomans to return.
Rehmat, watch videos about ottomans by sheikh imran hosein…
That is a mistake.The Ottoman Sultan’s titles included Caliph among them.In fact it was 1921 or 1922 ? I believe, when the Caliphate was officially abolished by modern Turkey.
John of Malta, yes, I could see you were a Catholic half way down your comment. Glad you admitted it.
by the way, I don’t think you yourself know, or admit to, even half of what your Empire of Fake Holiness has done to the planet.
And by the way, the crusades was during not after the times of the split in the west and east Church anyway.
Ann on September 27, 2015 · at 5:16 am UTC said:
“by the way, I don’t think you yourself know, or admit to, even half of what your Empire of Fake Holiness has done to the planet.”
by the way Ann, your Christ, if that being exists, is a cad http://thesaker.is/controversy-is-good-if-it-makes-you-think/comment-page-1/#comment-113193
Living in a country in which the overal population is atheist, or at least not-religieus connected, the present backwards devellopment to religious traditions is a ominous sign. It took the working class movement and other progressive forces more than hundred years to liberate society from the curse of religous influence on the state and society. No priests can preach anymore which party to vote, to which trade-union to be a member, which football club suits best for your spiritual wellbeing, to forbid to swimm on Sunday’s, and the list is endless. The working class and progressive movement have liberate us from that backwards thinking but with the tsunami of moslims coming to us, this is all going to change, and not for the best. The oveall majority that has nothing, but absolute nothing with religions, are becoming soon hostage in their own country.
We all know this is an organized process by the elites to devide the different segments of society. Devide and rule, create chaos, with the hope that out of fear people will accept a European state. Europe will face very soon the choice of social chaos or fascisme, and no religeon will stop that, on the contrary it will contribute to it. If a country like Russia with historically a large muslim population build mosques, it is understandable. Every religious group within society have the right to worship their gods. We haven’t banned chuches eigther. But to import a religeon that has no historical roots in a country will lead to disaster.
A lot is written about ‘western values’, about the elites being liberals and pro gay rights. Butno one seems to understand that in fact the elites are the opposite of that. They have hyjacked these issues. The elites have nothing in common with liberalism, not in a economic, nor a political sense. And the gay movement was not started by the elites, but a result of the movement in the sixtees against the elites. They use it now, to devide cultures and mislead their own people. In line with this they use the political islam to ruin whole nations. Who were the main targets in the Middle East? The secular countries like Irak, Libya and Syria. The elites wants us to segregate in different churches, and fight eachother. It is a powerfull instrument
I support Russia in its struggle against the Anglo-American elites, as I supported Yugoslavia en now the people of Donbas. And I think it is of vital importance to prevent the Anglo-American empire to continue with their wars, to build to most broadest coalition. But I fear that this type of debates will have a contrary effect. Many maybe cheer for the ban of Gay prides in Moscow, or indulge in debates weather homosexuality is natural or not, but won’t bring us any further. When Moscow forbid innitiatives with a political agenda with the aim to destabilize te country, they absolutely right. But to ban gay prides – let alone for 100 years – because it is a ‘western value’, can aliniate a lot of people, esy prays for western intelligent services. In this respect I admire more the developments in Cuba, where they seek inclusion and stead of labelling and surpress. Let every person be as he or she is, as long as they don’t impose their believes on others. Don’t confuse western values with the Anglo-American agenda. You might discover we have much more in common and we are much more on the same line against the common enemy, we all know who that is.
Thank you to Holland, you speak me from the heart.
Watch these images and then wait until Mr.Salaam blames me for “spreading hatred”:
Muslim migrants violate Christian cemetery in the Serbian-Croatian border area
“Don’t confuse western values with the Anglo-American agenda. You might discover we have much more in common and we are much more on the same line against the common enemy, we all know who that is.”
Finally, some clarity. I don’t come here to hear the virtues of Orthodoxy or Islam extolled. I’m here because I believe in the right of self-determination, both for individuals and for nations, a “nation” being defined as a group of people who’ve managed to transcend narrow parochial interests and construct a society that treats everyone as equal, regardless of… well you know the rest.
Sadly, I don’t see this, neither here on this blog, nor in the broader social milieu that is Russia and its associated states. What I see is just more tyranny of the majority – same as everywhere else.
As such, I no longer feel compelled to support Russia in its political and social objectives, but to concentrate my future energies on keeping Canada (MY western nation) out of foreign conflicts and intrigues.
Note to immigrants (and I’m one myself). If you understand this, and embrace the concept, then welcome New Canadian. OTOH, if you’ve come here to escape a situation caused by your own lack of tolerance and cultural chauvinism, then I humbly suggest that you a) stay where you are and fight for what you believe in ; b) stop blaming “western values” for your own cultural degeneracy.
“As such, I no longer feel compelled to support Russia in its political and social objectives, but to concentrate my future energies on keeping Canada (MY western nation) out of foreign conflicts and intrigues.”
As much as I can understand your position, I think it is a mistake. It is exactly what the Ango-American elites want to achieve, setting up a clash between ‘Western values’ against others. In my opinion we are in a historical phase of a dying Anglo-American empire. This empire tries to maintain itself by creating a free trade bloque under complete corporate control from Europe without Russia and the pacific without China. They are preparing the ground in Europe for that battle, on the one hand by increase military force directed against Russia, and on the other hand the tsunami of refugees as a new weapen of mass destruction to prepare chaos to be able to install a fascist European state. This is deliberate organized, as I believe the Greek crisis was done, with support of the so called left in that country. Within these crises we hear them screaming for more Europe, more centralization, more controle etc.
My position is that we have to achieve a broad international coalition, from east to west, to prevent the Anglo-American empire in their dying phase to drag the world into total destruction. That doesn’t mean we have to agree on everything that happens or is said in other countries or cultures. In many aspects I am more critical to China than Russia, but I do consider both countries as our major allies to contain the fascist Western powers.
It is not only productive but even damaging to see the events as a clash of civilisations. That is the view of the Western elites in order to psychologically prepare the masses for war. I also don’t see. as the Saker does, the build of the mosque in Moscow as a ‘civilizational choice’. I see it as a sign of respect and recognition of the historical place of the moslims in Russia, not as a sign against Western civilisation. It doesn’t make sense with the Russian-Chinese strategic goal to create a Eurasian Union from the Atlantic to the Pacific. That Union has not the aim to become a centralized state, as is the EU, respecting the different cultures and lifestyle on this vast continent. We know the EU is a fascist concept. The nazi’s discussed this already in 1944.
I hope that, besides the differences in religeon and social background, those in the West and East who oppose the agression and neokolonial ambitions of the fascist Anglo-American elites and their vassals in Europe can find common ground and cooperate for paece and the salvation of the human civilisation of mankind, in all its different forms and expression.
” It is exactly what the Ango-American elites want to achieve, setting up a clash between ‘Western values’ against others.”
As I see it, Russians are doing that all by themselves, without any outside help. From the comments on this board and elsewhere it appears that gays are now the new Kulaks. Nobody in the west did that. Russia puts forth the notion that it’s now a more open society than in the Soviet era, and then proceeds to ban gay pride marches, as if a simple march somehow threatens their “civilization choice.” What’s next? Sharia law?
The hell with this “east-west” false dichotomy. You either stand for ALL human rights, or you’re part of this retrograde conservative trend that yearns for a past that never was. As I said, the tyranny of the majority is more than evident in Russian society, which makes them just the same as everywhere else – nothing exceptional there. Thus, it makes more sense to focus on my immediate surroundings – you know – think global, act local – which at present consists of ridding my county of these neocon satraps in Ottawa.
Frankly, if the shoe were on the other foot, it would be Russian neocons dominating the west with their global agenda. It just happens the west got there first, but the essential ingredients are all there, including the overweening sense of superiority that’s more than evident in the articles and comments on this blog.
There’s an old expression from the Soviet era: Today me, tomorrow you. As for the alleged Christian values espoused on this site, I’ll let Christ have the final word: Matthew 25:31-46
ebear on September 27, 2015 · at 6:25 pm UTC said:
“I’ll let Christ have the final word: Matthew 25:31-46”
You got it 100% – until that last sentence about the bounder…
Russia may have made a civilizational choice. Politically it makes sense. It is certainly wise not to antagonize a population that is prone to quickly take offense at what they perceive to be a lack of consideration for their beliefs (which they consider to be the ultimate wisdom) and act violently and irrationally against the offenders.
But wouldn’t that raise the suspicion that Russia relinquished her role of defender of the Truth of Christanity? Can one say that Christians have the same God with those who deny (emphatically and all to often violently) that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and have the ultimate goal of “smashing the Cross”?
The anti-Muslim slant in that comment is as obvious as any websayan posting their bigotry on a msn or Jewish Zionist website.
The REAL Truth About Religion And Its Origins – MUST WATCH!! [High Quality]
ALL Religions are Lies – Masters of Deception
All muslims are fallen believers, a sect. I am an Orthodox Serb who proclaims the true religion, Pravoslavlje and, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who conquered death! Muslims and all other heretics and non believers should avoid hell and become Orthodox Christian. I believe in the Kingdom of Heaven and not in the politics of this earthly kingdom. Pravoslavni should always proclaim their beliefs and spurn death that does not exist for true believers. Russians like the Serbs have always had two enemies, Islam and the Catholic/Protestant/Zionist west. Like Saint Alexander Nevsky, we must play one against the other of these two heretical enemies. Amen.
“Muslims and all other heretics and non believers should avoid hell and become Orthodox Christian”
Long live the inquisition.
I do not believe in any religion, but have respect for others beliefs and cultures, even though I prefer mine.
Putin has respect for other beliefs and cultures, although they may not be his own.
who paid for the Mosque?
Who-ever’s names are superficially on the bill: Who paid it ?- the poorest with their sweat and blood.
That was one of the endless nice things in communism: This fact was celebrated, rather than hidden and distorted.
I still haven’t got listening to your Putin link, it will need to be very powerful to change my opinion…but you are one of the few good, unbiggoted, non-egotistic commenters on this blog. I admire that and enjoy your posts as mostly sane in this largely insane sea of comments.
Tnx, glad to hear that.
Well, I’m tough to all sides. That’s what most people do not like.
So I offer you to discuss the video with you step by step after you have your sound working again.
If you have reproducible verifiable facts to discredit any point, I’m listening.
(Maybe this shows you that this videos is a MUST-watch, which it imho is).
But judge yourself.
BTW: You can also save youtube videos for later watching (or onto some thumb drive for wathcing at another computer which has sound but no www) by simply puttung “ss” between the ‘.’ and ‘y’ in http://www.[ss]youtube.com/%5B…%5D
Same sex relations is no other than Zionist scheme through their American especially American Hollywood to promote this Filth which is against God’s rules no matter what or who God you believe in.People must HEED my words, Zionist and their American partners must be eradicated by all means necessary from this planet if we’re going to live in Peace & prosperity…in other words, America is anti-God, anti-peace & the biggest threat to humanity, period.
What would be wrong with Pope Francis visiting Russia?
I get the kind intent behind this and coexistence is needed, but the social and cultural compatibility seems here overstated. We do not have a christian law that inforces religious duties and manner on Christians. It is up to a person to see for himself if he is going to conduct himself moraly, in concord with teachings, fast and so on. Nobody has the right to judge the other and negative consequences imposed can only be denial of communion for a period or exclusion from church. Christians do not have a christian law to rule a society they have faith, symbolon and teachings of it, so that each one of us can (try to) govern oneself. The many things in sheriat could be point by point commented own as alien to us and I would very much like the distance stated. I don’t believe it is ‘just theology’ that separates us, keeping in mind that we all agree that it is a crucial distinction with consequences in all areas.
Saker, here is an article I’m sure you’ll find interesting, especially as you never mentioned Sufis and Sufism in your above article.
Window on Eurasia: Moscow Mufti Urges Revival of Sufism to Win Over Russia’s Muslim Youth
spot on bro! very nice insight and angle looking at the event and the general context (+ historical reminders). Very nice…
Islam has nothing in common with Russian orthodox culture and religion. And many Russian people dislike Muslims and Caucasians, as we have seen with many demonstrations by nationalists.
But Russian elites have no other choice but to promote good relations with Muslim communities so as to maintain peace and stability.
Russia has sizeable numbers of Tatars, Chechens, Caucasian Muslims, immigrants from central Asia etc. The Central Asian states are majority Muslim and in order to maintain Russian influence, Putin has to be politically correct. That’s why he allowed Kadyrov to create an Islamic state in Chechnya as a Russian protectorate.
Otherwise, there will be again secessionist movements in Caucasus.
Things were far better during USSR. Religious practice was suppresed. There was no Islamic radicalisation. Chechnya was a secular territory of USSR with sizeable non Muslim minorities. Nowadays, it’s an islamic theocratic feudal state, ruled by the corrupt
Kadyrov. But Putin had no other choice. Without a corrupt puppet in place such as Kadyrov, there will still be conflict in the Caucasus.
Applying the phrase ‘same-sex partnership’ to Nature as a whole is a non-sequitor.
Do you mean mating ‘partnerships’? Those are always sexual (hetero is an intellectual redundancy ) among mammals, The only other form of natural reproduction is asexual, where a part of the original organism self-replicates (clones.)
Even the sexually uninhibited bonobos – they use their genitals in all aspects of communication, but are socially organised to rear their young in matriarchies – mate sexually: they would not have emerged as a mammalian species otherwise.
So applying homosexual as an adjective to mating behaviour in the natural world is a complete oxymoron.
That’s why when people say it is ‘not natural’ ( i.e. such pairs will never produce offspring) they are merely stating the truth.
The recent nonsense about gay penguins is exactly that – nonsense. The anomalous behaviour of captive raptors (they were zoo-borns) is not evidence of naturally-occurring phenomena. The egg they were hatching was not produced together: it was produced by one of the birds with its its female mate of fifteen years who had died. (Note how the mother female was completely excised from this media LGBT campaign.)
When flamingos in Florida were observed to engage in ‘gay’ behaviour (i.e necking) , they were discovered to have high rates of mercury in their diet which had led to abnormally high levels of female hormones in the males. Their ‘mating’ behaviour was entirely ersatz, because they would not produce offspring anyway. This observation was not repeated in an African location where there was no abnormally high incidence of mercury in the fish the flock consumed..
So no, there are no lifetime-length homosexual pair-bonds i.e mates in Nature: species emergence and reproduction in mammals has decreed otherwise. Proof would have include to cradle-to-grave longitudinal methodology and exclude environmental confounding variables to support such claims. So far, no dice.
The case for tolerance will never be served by lies, deceit and deliberate distortion. One only has to wonder why such fairy-tales – pun intended – have to be manufactured through Anglo-American media for (allegedly ) social acceptance. What is being hidden?
The glitch with the reply button persists.
The above comment was a reply to Daniel Rich at the beginning of the thread.
I seem to have the same tech problem as Oldnik. In future, I will preface my replies with ‘@’ so you know where to put my posts.
These random, disconnected appearances make me sound like a total birdbrain..
..,and I don’t want anyone to find out !!:)
Dear eimar, we, the moderators do not place any comment in any place, of course, ever. The comments came in like you place them in the thread. You are the only ones who choose the button for reply. So, be careful who you want to reply to. We only read the comments and decide if they must be approved or sent to consideration for The Saker, or if it´s needed edit some rude words. Nothing more. Regards.
A very interesting analysis Saker.
Not at all sure I agree.
I don’t see this as a civilizational choice. I think it is political. A way of maintaining a respectful connection to a significant portion of the RF’s electorate.
If it was truly ‘civilizational’, then Putin would be agitating for replacing Russian law – (deeply entwined with European 19th century Enlightenment values and profoundly influenced by major German thinkers) with Sharia law.
Church and State remain firmly demarcated, unlike Iran. It works for Iran because it is historically consonant with Iranian civilization. It crucial to Iranian cultural identity. a It would not work in Russia. Or Syria.
Putin is an internationalist, but that requires a clear grasp of what a nation is, should be, and hopes to become. There would be no ‘inter’ otherwise. It also requires an intelligent grasp of both history and current cultural influences.
Somebody said on another blog that Putin’s heart lies ‘far to the West.’ South West of Russia to be precise.
The current pope – who disdains the title ‘Vicar of Christ’ for the mundane and circumspect ‘Bishop of Rome’ – is an Argentinian. Much speculation about his intentions. Much slander – especially from the Anglophone press.
Two things I do know.
He is pro-family.
He is hostile to poverty.
So I believe he and Putin are on the same page when it comes to the essentials. Neither strike me as likely to let theological differences get in the way of mutual shared objectives. Nor do I think Putin prioritiezes doctrinal issues over issues of social conduct. Spiritual salvation is the promise of priests, not politicians. (Unless the latter are latter-day (Ras)putins..:O)
Oh, and hats /mantillas used to be de rigeur for both men and women in the RC churches too, until the rule was relaxed only two decades ago. This therefore is not an instance of common practice exclusively between Orthodox and Islam. And both Orthodox and Roman Catholicism eschew polygamy, which is a much more fundamental difference : Islam does not.
Since how family structures are organized has profound implications for society , common ground between Roman Catholicism and Orthodox is greater than between Orthodox and Islam. That is just a simple fact, not a competition.
Arguably the Mediterranean/Latin American extended family – typically Roman Catholic in religious ‘flavour’ – would be more consonant with Muslim social organization, despite the prohibition on polygamy. Responsibility for relatives is a big part of Muslin obligation, like the Roman Catholic tradition prior to separation of Church and State ( which was Anglo Protestant in origin.)
Perhaps Putin has a different perception to you.
Or maybe you are are right.
I would love to read an essay from the philosopher-president himself.
When he hasn’t an Empire to vanquish.,:)
We will be replaced by robots soon…
Bismillah. MasyaAllah, what a well thought-out article and great observation on Russia and Islam of today. Tq Mr.saker
Any comments on this? I find it snide and shallow and buried too deeply in historical argument. Times change and while history and especially the lessons of history are relevant they don’t explain everything that happens today. There are a host of other factors, economics being the largest. If people are well fed and happy they tend not to care what happened centuries ago, unless divisive tactics are used on them.
The West Isn’t a Friend to Russia. Neither Is Islam. Anatoly Karlin
“Anatoly Karlin replies to Saker’s call for Russian-Muslim fraternity. Karlin argues such arguments lack real foundation and are driven by fear of being alone”
Hundred times _____+1!!!_____
That the Soviet Union and communism don’t exist anymore and that they start with Orthodox Christianity is bad enough.
But now Russia crossed a red line.
It will backfire.
I have enough Muslims here in Germany and Berlin to know what I’m talking about.
It is an invasion. And they care a damn shit about old Europe, other than to take it over.
My 5 Kopekes.
Do I need to watch the Putin video? they are, after all the antithesis of communism.
Maybe you should first watch it before knowing what it is and what it isn’t, no?!
The Unknown Putin. Part 1
i’ve watched the first 11 minutes and it isn’t helping my claim that “he” is the antithesis of communism. I do not contest that Russian state pensions and budget increased 3 fold after ending the product sharing agreements but I do have some evidence that wealth disparity has continued to increase after their ending http://thesaker.is/minsk-2-a-rotting-corpse/comment-page-1/#comment-136605.
It is therefore quite feasible that revenue gained from the ending of the product sharing agreements could have increased the pensions & budget by a much larger factor. Have you figures and links to show the split of the revenue(i.e. that Putin is not primarily involved in favouring self and cronies) ?
I’ve quoted some of the more interesting points from the video so far, but based on the comment at 10:20 “he’s actually the leader of the national revolution”
Before I continue with the video, what sort of revolution is he leading that I could admire?
“00:15 He is from 2000 to 2010 responsible for everything
2:22 what was the price we had to pay for the product sharing agreement?
2:28 one man, there was one man who, Vladimir Putin, who managed to change the position profoundly
3:00 the losses amounted to over two thirds of the overall budget, Russia started fighting for it in the year 2000
3:11 and we achieved victory officially in year 2004
3:31 all pensions were 3 times as low as they are now the entirety of state spending was 3 times as low as it is now
4:19 and who was stealing all that money for all those years?…and what did Putin do about it…to this day we know
nothing of this business of Vladimir Putin and we still know nothing of that role of his
4:38 people didn’t understand how politics effected their lives as much as their families did, it is based on the living standard
and on the the security level of the country
4:44 if all the oil and the revenues from it were being kept abroad then were talking about tens of billions of dollars
perhaps hundreds of billions and there was only one man who took those risks, Putin.
4:58 he was taking risks internationally in the wake of this and so many people were unhappy about it, unhappy about those risks
which had already taken place, this is what we are going to talk about.
9:45 we paid for everything with our oil
9:49 in product sharing agreements …
10:09 our countries budget increased by 3 or 4 times after the law had been abolished which increased only because we terminated the product sharing agreement
10:19 why do I think that Putin is not just the President?
10:20 he’s actually the leader of the national revolution”
Anonymous on September 30, 2015 · at 12:33 pm UTC said:
i’ve watched the first 11 minutes and it isn’t helping my claim that “he” is the antithesis of communism.”
of course, I meant:
“and it isn’t helping to counter my claim that “he” is the antithesis of communism.”
@ Anonymous: If you don’t trust Vladimir Putin, I DO.
BTW: Your first 12 minutes transcript’s counter-arguing is quite thin, if present at all.
Also one has to wonder why it took you several weeks to get sound working and that even then, you stopped watching after 12 minutes. WTF?
Karlin is one of those HBD (and probably Malthusian) ideologues churned out by the heirs-to-Galton Ivy League universities. ( Don’t know where he himself was educated, but he’s definitely on their page.)
That makes his article pretty predictable. You either go with HBD or you don’t – no place for ambiguity, nuance, debate. A HBD bot could deliver the entire output. You’ve heard one, you’ve heard them all.
Still think his conclusion is right –
The Army and Navy is Russia’s backbone.
An analysis of the US-trained Tajik general who defected to Islamic State would have been much more interesting. When Putin said ISIL were ‘not stupid’ in his speech, I am sure this is the guy he had in mind. Not the drugged-up. liver-eating savages so beloved of the Western MSM. He was clearly intelligent, and totally believed in the idea of the pan-Islamic caliphate. Add a dash of soldiery charisma, and you have a rallying point for young Russian jihadis.
This is the real potential threat within – and why social inclusion ( as exemplified by this beautiful mosque) and Russian assimilation is so vital to Russia’s present and future security.
Patriotism has to appeal across the religious spectrum.
I wonder if the Tatars could be the key?
Or has that been already tried?
Just listening to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s annual Boyer Lectures, the ABC’s flag-ship propaganda rants. Some flunky of Frank Lowy’s (billionaire Zionist and Haganah member, one of the ‘lucky’ recipients of the 9/11 WTC insurance scam) propaganda outfit, so-surprise, surprise- it was thirty minutes of turgid agit-prop, coming to the utterly predictable conclusion that we must stay attached to the USA like an anal polyp, forever and ever, Amen. Particularly when those wascally Chicomms are daring to ‘confront’ the US Navy in the waters offshore from…ahem…China. Who do these Yellow Devils think they are? They do not even share ‘our values’. I mean when was the last time China ‘valorised’ a place with tender, moral, concern, as Israel did to Gaza,( more than once, so great is their dedication to ‘our values’)or the USA did to Fallujah and the whole of Iraq? And this, believe me, is more or less the extreme ‘liberal’ end of the spectrum of acceptable opinion in this country.
I spent a good portion of the night reading through each and every single comment. The calibre of this blog shows not merely through the TS incarnate but the diversity of views in the comments has a conceptual level that strikes deep into the intellect, albeit sometimes not in the most amiable ways, to stimulate thought which penetrates the vast miasmas that inhabit intellectual discourse. Bravo i say.
Confucius apparently once said “If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself“. If memory serves well thomas aquinas said something similar in the likes of that he gained more wisdom from interactions with the common man then in all his years of study and tutelage under the professors.
I myself was born in Ukraine ssr in dnipropetrovsk and migrated to the ‘west’ not long after the coup in moscow. Living my life by the maxim of ‘know thy self’ and the socratic method among other things since thinking aint automatic, the world once investigated becomes a wonder and burden to behold. Knowledge or its pursuit for its own sake is immensely rewarding and truly liberating.
In thought and custom im culturally russian. I was lucky in some ways to leave the shattered homeland of the rus in time to avoid the educational programs undertaken in the early 90s to indoctrinate the younger Ukrainians with western liberal notions of Ukrainian identify and the dangerous side of nationalistic dogma. Im sure some of u guys have read the 1948 cia document pertaining to the imperial and accurate assessment of the potential to subvert and instill division among the mainly gallician elements in Ukraine at that time. A fabulous (i.e. effective) and insidious method of promoting discord and fracture of society for ideological reasons.
The average person simply has had the innate curiosity schooled out of him among other sophisticated scientific and psychological methods that the elitist have mastered since the days of malthus, skinner, whitman etc.. to control thought and behavior. Its an ostensibly natural conclusion that Orwellian, fabian, machavalian mechanisms in media , society etc.., has produced the despicable downfall and decline of mans potential for personal and collective triumph in so many areas of existence. It also does not help that the main element of the controlling cabal are populated by sociopathic parasites. These individuals are the one and the same who finance both left and right aspects of politics and created the hideous systems of cybernatics, technocracy etc that through the ‘revolving door’ method created the intelligence agencies, write the laws and sit on the boards of big corporations. They have managed party through the inheritance of nazi practices in all things fucked up post ww2, and earlier in the time of cecil rhodes and other notables of perfidious Albion and zionist collaborators or masters, to put in effect in the most grand fabian ways of guiding us surreptitiously to neo feudalism.
I can go on and on and name and cite various other examples (eg cia subversion of the feminist and hippie movements, the use of bernays public relations among others to inculcate ‘a love of ones servitude’). This is probably nothing new to some here, but i felt in the mood for a rant. It would have been sufficient to say part of the issue regarding russia is the failure of the west in understanding the other side (the reasons are many as noted in my rant).
Anyway thank you saker and the people who’ve commented, for we share the love of knowledge and truth and this love makes brothers of men no matter where he or she comes from.
It’s stupid to confront the Roman Catholic Church with the Ortodox, the creeds are the same except for the philioque item and the persignation. It was a pope whom send to the saints Cyril and Methodious to Russia, to christianize the russians. This people isnot only slavic in its origin but germanic too. Search please you awkward protestant! I dislike the kosher pope, because he betrays the Church, but the protestantism is only judaism with a pseudo christian face.