by Ramin Mazaheri for the Saker blog
Maybe it’s worked in Russia, but a military operation in Ukraine based on “denazification” has been a total public relations disaster everywhere else. Quite simply: Russia should have known that the use of the word “Nazi” totally shuts down any discussion in the West. Russia is waging a new type of military operation but they lazily or foolishly thought that “denazification” was a new enough concept to base its justification around for non-Russians — they have paid a price of total intellectual defeat so far in the battle for hearts and minds.
They could have known it was coming – I wrote about this issue just two weeks prior to the start of the Ukraine operation, in an article on France’s elections titled, France’s conservatives cry out for National Socialism – Zemmour’s response?:
“Ah, old Adolf – we can’t bring him up in the West, can we?
Many have heard of Godwin’s Law, or the rule of Nazi analogies: an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches. However, an important corollary is that whenever someone compares someone or something to Nazism – that person has lost the argument and/or the argument is summarily over.
Essentially, the world is to accept that all discussions of Western politics cannot discuss the anti-Western Liberalism ideology which was German Nazism.”
Yes, Russia should have accepted that in February. Practically nobody west of the Oder River understood what Moscow meant by “denazification”, and they still don’t after a month of Russian explanations.
Russia’s military operation has made much harder by failing to recognise the iron Western cultural reality of Godwin’s Law, and the reality that the West only associates Nazis with anti-Semitism and – not at all! – with Russophobia, despite the 20+ million Russian deaths at the hands of the Germanic Nazis.
This is how iron that law is: Political science PhD holders have responded to me with, “But… Ukraine’s president is Jewish – how can there be Nazis?” If you cannot even get Western political science PhD holders to see where you are coming from – even remotely – you have zero chance to get the average Westerner to understand you.
Thus it’s a total, ongoing public relations catastrophe.
It’s not an easy problem to fix
It’s such a huge problem I actually have to discuss it in detail in my new book on the Yellow Vests, in a chapter titled: “Where the West is stuck: The fascism of the 1930s and the ‘fascism’ of the 2020s”. The West is stuck in misunderstanding what fascism is, and in 2022 Russia has not solved this problem; they have maybe even made it worse?!
It’s not an easy problem to fix, but in April 2014 I must say that I was farther along than Russia is in 2022 – well, at least I tried to propose some solution in a column for PressTV titled, “Ukraine: The Rise of the ‘Nalis’”. I can’t find a link for it anywhere – I’d complain about how Iran’s PressTV has been so deplatformed but – thanks in part to the awful Russian public relations campaign – Russia has now become even more deplatformed than us, wow! If someone finds a link, great, but these highlights show the idea still holds up: the combination of rabid Nationalism and far-right Liberalism (in economics, politics and in anti-socialism) is still the problem in Ukraine. The column began:
“The combination of ultra-nationalists and ultra-liberals who have overthrown the Ukrainian government is indicative of a new type of political party in the region: National Liberals, or ‘Nalis’. They are to be differentiated from ‘Nazis’ – National Socialists – only by the economic ideology of liberalism (otherwise known as free-market capitalism).
But it is a mistake to call the protesters in Ukraine “Nazis”. Yes, at Maidan Square there was plenty of footage taken of neo-Nazis, fascists, violent anarchists and other types who showed up to a political protest in camouflage and armed with a firearm. But they are actually “Nalis” – National Liberals.
That’s why not all of Ukraine’s protesters should be called Nalis: There are true progressives who were calling for legal, constitutional changes to the corrupt Yanukovych government. Unfortunately, they have been outgunned by the Nalis, who have deposed a president unconstitutionally, voted to ban the Russian language and whose violent tactics have created the real possibility of civil war.
Many of these people are true Nalis: economic nationalists who do not even want to join the EU.
But the moneyed set of the Nalis certainly do. They want to work with the US and the EU to institute IMF-led austerity reforms. They want to reduce pensions, reduce government subsidies on things like heat, reduce wages and increase corporate protections to foster a capitalist society. All you need to do is look at their proposals and it’s clear: they want free market liberalism…but of course for the benefit of themselves and the other moneyed Nalis.
Two things are certain: Western politicians will back the Nalis to the hilt. Of course, always putting the best interest of the EU or US or Germany (or many others) well-before the interests of the Ukrainian people.
And two: The Western media, passionately pro-Nali and just as passionately anti-Russian and anti-Putin, will also be unquestioningly backing the Nalis until the bitter end.”
Did “Nali” catch on? No, but did Russia come up with anything better?
Are they even strenuously pushing the term “Ukrainian Civil War”, which is no longer just a “possibility” but today’s reality, in my estimation?
I understand how Russians would use “Nazism” synonymously with “Russophobia”, just I understand how Jews would use “Nazism” interchangeably with “anti-Semitism”, but clearly most Westerners do not understand the former and only the latter. Given that the “Nalis” have been around since 2014, and given that the US has used shameless Russophobia to distract from the political failures of the two mainstream parties in their 2016 election, I’m surprised that Russia couldn’t come up with a better way to express “pathological and murderous hatred towards Russia”?
“Anti-Russianism”, “Russophobic paramilitaries”, “Nalis” – somebody better come up with something better than “denazification” because it takes more than hating Russians or Jews to make a Nazi, and because “denazification” has clearly not worked. If they don’t come up with something – anything – other than “denazification” they will never explain the situation in Ukraine correctly. Take Nali, or improve upon Nali, but come up with something to increase diplomatic understanding.
However, Russia needs to not only admit they got it wrong, but they need to get at the root of why they got it wrong, and this is actually much harder for Russia.
Russians need to ask why they get – as their failed PR campaign proves – “Nazi” as wrong as the West does
It’s not really that the times have changed and “Nazi” is outdated – it’s that “Nazi” was never accurate to begin with in Ukraine, as I wrote back in 2014.
Racism or xenophobia – the hating of Russia – isn’t enough to make one a Nazi, merely a racist. Germanic Nazism had political and economic components, and to ignore them is only ignorance and only causes more ignorance. The West only associates Nazis with anti-Semitism, and that’s foolish, but some Russians think associating Nazis with anti-Russianism is a complete picture, and that is just as foolish. Incorrectly believing that it does is to totally ignore the economic factor, and the factor of political structure, and to merely make ethnic/identity politics the only factor – it is also to lay the foundation for total PR failure outside of Russia, and that cannot be denied.
The obvious difference is that Russia is on the right side of being against the “Nalis”, but… they don’t even know what that means, or what being anti-Nail implies for their society going forward – and the implications are revolutionary-big.
The Western and Russian elite leadership both misuse “Nazi” because it serves them – cui bono applies here too.
Both Russian and Western elites do not want to seriously talk about the economic/political aspects of socialism – of any variety – whatsoever. This is because post-1991 both regions’ elites began to wrongly take for granted that Socialist Democracy is a failure (China has emphatically disproven this, thankfully) and thus Russia adopted many aspects of what I term “Western Liberal Democracy”. I can list a half-dozen synonyms: liberalism, neoliberalism, ultra-liberalism, English parliamentarian oligarchy, Western democracy, Nali-ism, etc. It all comes down to the same thing: liberalism, which is the ideology that emerged after the downfall of absolute monarchy in 1789 and before the establishment of socialist democracy in 1917.
The West is fighting for Western Liberal Democracy, and thus they do not permit honest discussion and honest critiques of Western Liberal Democracy. This explains why there is no admission regarding the historical reality that Nazism and 1930s European fascism won power precisely because so many people realised that Western Liberal Democracy was nothing but awful oligarchy. Most of Russia does not understand this either – not since 1991 – and thus they are stuck between aping Western Liberal Democracy and rejecting Socialist Democracy.
Putin definitely doesn’t want to talk about socialism honestly – or even acknowledge its achievements in Russia – because socialists are not just an ideological rival but an actual political one, unlike in the West: The Communist Party is the main opposition party in Russian parliament. Clearly, Western Liberal Democracy still has plenty of detractors in Russia.
But Putin is thus at an absurd and contradictory place in his political outlook: He wants to oppose Western Liberal Democracy’s surprising counter-attack on Russia with… more Western Liberal Democracy in Russia? It’s illogical, and thus it can’t work, and here’s why:
Putin is essentially saying that he wants Russia to take the Iranian road of taking total sanctions war head-on, but… without the influence of 1917? It won’t work. In 1979 Iranian political leaders were aware of Marxism, Leninism and Maoism, and they were also aware that Western Liberal Democracy was an awful economic and political model, and as a result they nationalised the economy to a degree only surpassed by North Korea and (maybe, I contest) Cuba – that’s the only way to beat sanctions!
What Russia is proposing in response to the Western counter-attack is truly radical for them in the sense that it is a total overturning of the economic and political choices of Western Liberal Democracy, and thus of many Russian choices post-1991. I don’t think Russia realizes how radical what they are proposing to do in response to sanctions really is, and how much it requires a complete rethink in political terms and interpretations of history – is Putin willing to embrace the USSR’s political and economic past?
What’s certain is that if Russia wants true sovereignty and independence as a response to the Western sanctions war – if they want to follow the Iranian road, as I first posited here, in an article which deserves way more attention, given that Russia now has 54% more sanctions than the previously most sanctioned country, Iran — then they must realise that they cannot possibly achieve such goals via Western Liberal Democratic methods, as WLD is anti-sovereignty and pro-1%er globalist class warfare.
Yes, the EU isn’t sanctioning Russian fossil fuels, but France just announced they want no more Russian gas by 2027. The EU sanctions and what they portend are serious.
The Iranian road led to sovereignty – and maybe even an actually-signed JCPOA which would be more proof its correct choices – because Iran rests on totally different (i.e. revolutionary) economic power and political power structures than those of Western Liberal Democracy. Russia cannot defeat a sanctions campaign with Western Liberal Democratic structures – it’s a system geared to protect oligarchs, of course.
Does Russia have oligarchs? Of course, to Western Liberal Democrats west of Russia “oligarchs” only exist in Russia, never in the West – absurdly and falsely. Listening to Westerners, “oligarchs” must only be a region in Siberia, perhaps? But oligarchs are not going to help counter sanctions; they are not going to accept mass nationalisations; they are not going to accept price controls, profit limitations, central planning, etc. and etc. and etc.
If Russia continues to face off with the West a la Iran they can either have a revolution in thinking or they can fail. Western Liberal Democracy will not save them, as Russians were told in 1991.
Perhaps Putin is just bluffing about his totally anti-capitalist response to the Western sanction war? Or perhaps it’s truly a new world, with China-Russia-Iran leading the way?
But the fact that no one in the West can easily grasp Russia’s intellectual campaign for the war indicates a major problem. Russia needs to think and talk honestly about political terms, and I recommend starting with “denazification”. This will, I think, necessarily take them into bigger issues, such as how a “bring on your sanctions” stance necessarily reacquires very revolutionary (or perhaps return-to-revolutionary, for Russia) changes.
Should Russia fail to realise this, it may reveal that they are as intellectually stuck as the West: If the conflict in Ukraine is only about Russia-hating, then they have succumbed to the same identity politics worldview of the West – they have made “race” the end-all be-all of their political-economic discourse. It will be proof that they have ignored the class warfare lens, the imperialist lens and 1979’s “maybe we do need some spiritual morality in our socioeconomic policies?” lens. These are all lenses which came around between 1917-1991, which current Russian leadership has rather disavowed.
These are strong, serious ideas, but they are motivated by the catastrophic failure of the “denazification” idea outside of Russia, which seems like thus far the biggest failure in Russian planning for their military operation.
Ramin Mazaheri is the chief correspondent in Paris for PressTV and has lived in France since 2009. He has been a daily newspaper reporter in the US, and has reported from Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Tunisia, South Korea and elsewhere. He is the author of ‘Socialism’s Ignored Success: Iranian Islamic Socialism’ as well as ‘I’ll Ruin Everything You Are: Ending Western Propaganda on Red China’, which is also available in simplified and traditional Chinese.
The PR war in the west can never be won no matter what Russia does. Uncle Shmuel will tell whatever it wants in the Empire of Lies.
Good way to plug a book though
I am not sure that the dezazification of Ukraine has been a PR disaster as Ramin suggests .
I guess its tongue in cheek!!
Anyhow tongue in cheek or not the use of this term coupled with the ignorant vile racism shown to Russia has caused many people to seriously reconsider the absolute bullshit coming at them daily from the propaganda known as western mainstream media.I know this from talking to the ordinary people where I live ,Ireland.
Forget the politicians and artists etc.The ordinary people are what counts in the end.
“I am not sure that the dezazification of Ukraine has been a PR disaster as Ramin suggests.”
It is only problematic if the Russians fail to achieve the desired outcome.
“Ukrainian news anchor quotes Adolf Eichmann, calls for genocide against Russians”
Jason Melanovski (today)
““Especially at a time like this, since in Russia they call us Nazis, fascists and so on. I’ll allow myself to quote Adolf Eichmann, who said that in order to destroy a nation you must first of all destroy its children. Because by killing their parents the children will grow up and take revenge. By killing children they will never grow up and the nation will disappear. The Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot destroy Russian children because it is forbidden by the rules of war and it is also forbidden by various conventions including the Geneva Conventions.
“But I am not from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And when I get the chance to settle things with the Russians I will be obliged to do it. Since you call me a Nazi, I’ll adhere to the doctrine of Adolf Eichmann and will do everything in my power to ensure that your children never live on this earth. So that you can feel what it’s like when innocent civilians die. So that you can feel all the pain and suffering when you say, ‘We didn’t start the war. It was all Putin. We didn’t want this war.’ We didn’t want it either.
“But you have to understand it’s about the victory of the Ukrainian people. It’s not about peace. We need victory. And if we have to slaughter all your families to do it, I’ll be the first to do it. Glory to the nation! And let’s hope there will [not] be such a nation as Russia and the Russians on this earth again. Because they are just scum that pollute this land. If Ukrainians have the opportunity, which they are basically doing right now, to destroy, to slaughter, to kill, to strangle the Muscovites, I hope everyone will do their part and whack at least one Muscovite.” [Channel 24 anchor, Fahruddin Sharafmal]
Nice folks, eh?
I agree. Somehow the Eichmann quote has to be distributed as widely as possible. We know the official regime propagandists obviously will ignore it like Hunter Biden’s laptop.
This is very reminiscent of the Volhynian massacre of 1943, and the sick and twisted rationalization used against Poles. Back then, the ukrainian banderites gave as such lines as ‘ You are a good neighbor, and I have nothing against you personally, but you are a Pole, so I have to kill you. But I will make it quick and painless.´
This is the same exact reptilian ukie thinking that has been at work in the Donbass for the last 8 years. These people are dangerous, and advocate a pure ukrainian state, and they will do whatever they can to make it happen. It is in their manifesto from even before WW2. It is shameful that the US and EU have ignored this, and this it far, far worse than any Russian mislabeling or lack of explanation of denazification.
Way back in the mid 1990s, I was taking a German class. It was 1995, I think. An Ukrainian American was in the class. He mentioned that he wanted to “kill” all the Russians in Ukraine. I thought that was horrible. Half of Ukraine was Russian speaking. These type of thinking has been going on for a long time in Ukraine and the Ukrainian diaspora.
The first thing that the US coup in 2014 did was to ban the Russian language and hate all things Russian. Crimea quickly left because of that. Donbass has been fighting for eight years against these genocidal anti-Russian fanatics. The Volhynian massacre of 1943 type of thinking continues on in US ruled Ukraine since 2014. Perhaps, the Volhynia massacres need to told to people in the west. It would explain why Russia fears this regime in Kiev and why Russia in Ukraine now.
Correct, they have been persecuting Hungarians and Greeks in Ukraine for eight years now too. Why? Because they’re not Ukrainians! Real simple. It’s not just Russians and to a lesser extent Poles and Jews they don’t like. They hate everyone who’s not a Ukrainian!
I think this is going to be extensively used by Russian propaganda against these rats. Seriously, they will be lucky if they are admitted to live in Poland
I agree with you. With a Narcissistic bunch like the West, there is nothing you can do that is OK or correct.
It simply does not matter and the author while plugging his book exhibits his naivety on the nature of the West.
Plugging a book that I’m giving away for free?
Lots of good comments here, many of which I agree with, but the ones that claim this are cheap shots. It also ignores that I’ve been writing regularly here for many years, and ignores that I wrote about this exact issue way back in 2014.
Rather crucially to my argument: None of the comments here seem to have pointed to examples of actual socialism emanating from these “Nazis”?
Goals of this article: One goal was to alert people to the reality that – right or wrong – “denazification” is not being as well-understood in the West as some may imagine, and another was to get discussion started as to this reality, and another was to see where such discussions where necessarily lead into.
Kudos to the commenter Zahra for coming up with the “‘Elimination of European Terrorism’ or even ‘De-Terrorization'”. Both of those would have been much better received in the West – it would at least given them pause for reflection, whereas “denazify” was able to be rejected out of hand due to Western cultural taboos.
Now, would those terms be more accurate and effective than “Nali” or “Nazi” or… – well, that’s part of the discussion going forward. But looking backward from this point – “denazification” simply hasn’t been understood in the West. Russia can think what it likes within Russia – that’s sovereignty, of course – but abroad: Without the pen there is only the sword….
I have no idea who is running the oligarch/gangster cabal in Washington, I suspect in reality it is not the neocons who are simply patsies (the Lee Harvey Oswalds) for whoever is really behind things (WASP antisemitism in America has to be seen to be believed).
Whoever they are I believe they are probably extremely old as otherwise there would not be a bunch of geriatrics with Alzheimer’s officially running things in Washington. Perhaps somebody managed to preserve John D Rockefeller’s brain and he is still giving out murderous instructions to young Joe and Nancy.
Washington’s psyops has been as much an own goal as their unleashing of the mother of all sanctions policies. On the financial front they have completely destroyed the West’s credibility as a collective financial institution. Who would want to bank with a bank that has boasted to the global public that it steals its customers’ deposits? Less than half of Russia’s reserves to break the dollar-based banking system does not seem too high a price to pay in a global war. Especially as if they are smart (and they certainly are) and the sums seized are either acting as collateral for loans or have been hedged.
On the psyops front the Washington cabal seem to have learned nothing from the war in Iraq. The big lie is not an effective strategy. The Brits soon realized this at the start of WWII. Who in the world now believes that there were really WMDs in Iraq? All the big lie does is destroy faith in the organs of propaganda. You can only keep a defeat like Stalingrad a secret for so long.
Who still cares about Nazis? The descendants of those who were systematically murdered by them – Slavs and Jews. The presence of Nazis in the Ukraine is no secret in Ukraine or in Israel. In Israel it has been reported repeatedly in the newspapers and there is a large community from the former USSR who have access to Russian media. This information is even starting to reach the Jewish community in the Western Hemisphere:
The Ezra Levant Show – Why is Canada supporting a Nazi battalion in Ukraine? https://www.rebelnews.com/ezra_levant_show_march_10_2022
However, the presence of Nazis in Ukraine is also a tell for those of us who are watching this deadly poker game. If some American Claus von Stauffenberg succeeds in neutralizing the Washington cabal before they start a nuclear war that eliminates the global North (including Langley and the Northern Virginia suburbs) the signal will be the presence of stories in the MSM confirming the presence of Nazis in the Ukraine.
If you really want to tell the West who they are, how about “death squads” because that has been their role in the Washington cabal’s Ukraine. They play the same role that CIA trained death squads performed for years in Latin America and In Europe they are coming to an EU country near you soon. Why do you think the Brits have been trying to keep out Ukrainian refugees?
Levant says, “Sure I support Ukraine and I hate Russia, but what about these Nazis?” Not good enough, sorry.
You may be right that “de-terrorization” is a better term than “denazify” but judging from the knee jerk demonization of Vladimir Putin since 2014, especially here the US, I find it hard to believe that with your way westerners would pause for reflection. Most people I know get their info from the NYT or social media, and want desperately to believe in their government no matter how often they are lied to or fucked over.
Sorry but Nazis were about as “socialist” as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is “democratic.” And on a host of other fronts Naziism is not a left wing ideology (trans-nationalism is anathema, trade unions crushed and co-opted, belief in biological and social heirarchies, egalitarianism is anathema, reactionary adhererence to percieved cultural “traditions” and national mythologies etc.) If you take the full scope of German Nazism, it is a right-wing movement. You can certainly have shades of it on the far left, or certain elements of it at least. But full blown Nazism rejects any and all common principles that one finds in the many assorted “socialisms” and left wing movements.
– But full blown Nazism rejects any and all common principles that one finds in the many assorted “socialisms” and left wing movements.
Nazism is a totalitarian state. “1984” is also about nazism.
I.e. Stalin and North Korea (the generals) are the same.
Nazi is thereby some who contibutes to this totalitarian state
Were the German Nazi’s socialist? Was the German Democratic Republic democratic? Is the Democratic Party in USA really democratic? While there are many good points in this article, I respectfully submit that attaching a label like “socialist” does not make somebody socialist. The term Nazi has acquired a connotation in the public discourse that has no resemblance to its original roots. It is this connotation that the “de-nazification” campaign refers to. Also, the target group has been on record about their admiration of Nazi party icons such as Adolf Eichmann. Regarding the suggestion that something revolutionary is required in Russia, I think that would be an ongoing experiment for many years just as in the case of Iran or China
I think one comment said it right; n o matter what the Russians do or say, it won’t make any difference, anit-communism is synonomous with Russophobia and the ‘Red Menace’ meme has been at it for a century! Our Western culture is saturated with racism.
I totally agree with you. What they call public relations (PR) is in fact a virtual world, a so-called communication world that people have created in zone A, which has fans in zone B, but which should not be confused with reality, real life. In the end, I will say that I almost don’t care about what happens on Facebook, on Youtube, etc. as long as it is aimed at creating a reality that has no roots in the real world except for the subversion of minds and the enchantment of the minds of the fifth column people that President Putin talked about. I think that the Russian operation in Ukraine is a very brutal reminder that there is war, generals, courts…of Facebook, of Youtube,…but that there is the real war that the real States use in case of major force. And this real war is fought and won on the ground, not in communication. Because no matter what the Russians, Chinese, Iranians do or say, public relations will never solve their problems with the West. The reason is that the problem is not one of disagreement, lack of understanding: the protagonists understand each other very well indeed. The only question is who will win…
I concur. There is no way I can agree with this article, which is a gross exaggeration in the negative sense.
Russia has been accused of losing the PR war. The point is that it never waged it. What could Russia have done in NATO countries which were quick to accuse Moscow and also to ban Russian news outlets ? The answer is nothing, as the elites in the West control the media outlets. These same elites are still furious that Putin appeared and prevented the break up of the country, so it could be plundered by Western corporations and banks.
The Russian “denazification” of Ukraine is cold reality. When Yanukovich was overthrown in 2014, the neo-Nazis took over in the country, the bulk originating from Western Ukraine, the former Galicia. You had parades with Nazi symbols, the Adolf Hitler Library was opened in Kiev, and only those politicians who took part in the coup d’etat were permitted to participate in elections. For every politician who was allowed to participate, three were banned. In 2017 some 20.000 neo-Nazis paraded in Kiev.
And yes, “denazification” might sound odd to Western ears in NATO countries, especially since Zelensky is Jewish and Ukraine is ostensibly a “democratic” country. However, who financed Hitler and boosted German industry before and during World war two ? The answer is Anglo American bankers and Wall Street industrialists, who created Hitler and turned Germany into a proxy fighter to fight the Soviet Union (Russia), especially since both Napoleon and Illuminati Lenin failed to break up the country. What the West did in 2014 was a repeat performance of what it did in the 1920’s and 1930’s with Hitler. The US spent 5 billion dollars to finance the coup d’etat in Kiev, openly admitted by Victoria Nuland, who by the way is Jewish. How much money was spent in Germany by the Bank of International Settlements, opened in Basel in 1931, will never be known.
Ramin Mazaheri is a good analyst. However, in this article he has been grossly unrealistic, ignoring the rule and power of neo-Nazis in Ukraine, who have used puppet Zelensky to conceal the fact that they even exist. While the term “denazificfation” might seem inappropriate now, we shall see if it will be inappropriate when the Russian military intervention is completed and when all the facts are known, including all those facts pertaining to some 25-30 biological labs controlled by the US, producing deadly viruses. Against whom would these viruses have been used ? Against Russia and China perhaps ? The Nazis would have been proud of Uncle Sam.
Anything you do or say is PR in some way. You can ignore PR but you can not avoid it. Here is an excerpt from Putin’s latest speech as a proof that Russia is indeed interested in opinion of Western public:
“I want ordinary Western people to hear me as well. You are being persistently told that your current difficulties are the result of Russia’s hostile actions and that you have to pay from your own pockets for the efforts to counter the alleged Russian threat. All of that is a lie.”
First, Western people are so scared and silenced that their positive opinion can not do anything for Russia. We saw this with yellow vests and truck drivers convoy that even when western people dare to protest, this is totally powerless and useless. So no point to fight propaganda war.
Second. Russia has not lost the propaganda war. I live in the Baltic state and here Russian hysteria is limited to very small shitlib group similar to other hysterias like climate warming or Covid19 or homosexuality. So a lot of noise but made by usual suspects. 99% of population just ignores another made of panic campaign.
So I also disagree with Mr. Saker and other who worry about PR. Shitlib screaming is not general public opinion.
Shitlib screaming is what gets war resolutions passed, sorry to say.
Remember, 2003 Iraq invasion was waged with shitlibs PROTESTING war….and it still happened.
If shitlibs WANT war with you…war is much more likely.
I agree. Russia never had a chance. Whatever they would have done, it always would be the action of a crazy madman.
With the sanctions it is like walking into cold water. First it is difficult, but once you are in, it does not matter anymore. And I think we have reached that point. It does not matter what more the West does.
Mr Raman Mazaheri is a communist from Iran. His articles are intended to promote his ideology. The pro Russian stance probably is just a cover.
But there could be worse authors publishing on the site.
are you suggesting that pure Nationalism is the way forward?
Let me suggest myself and spare me your American attitude of prejudice. Many of the folks who oppose US imperialism cannot think outside the box wherein everything is either black or white. They have also been conditioned to friend or foe thinking.
This was my last post on the site. Enjoy yourselves!
Thomas,Good heavens. You meant that as an insult it looks to me. As if communism (which I am sure you cannot define) leads to the promotion of an ideology by default. Just a cover eh .. oh boy? Authors don’t just ‘publish’ on the Saker Blog. There is a good editorial policy and each article is read and vetted before we publish. I don’t know exactly how Ramin would define himself, probably an Iranian socialist. But then neither do you know how Ramin would define himself and you’re just shooting in the air.
Let me show you what you are doing .. Thomas is a Trumper from Alabama and lacks education of the philosophical and actual meaning of the words communist and nazi.
You actually just proved Ramin’s point. The western cadres do not understand the terminology of de-nazification and that is a pr disaster.
Ooh, ad hominem? I am an Austrian leaning towards the Austrian school of economics. By profession a lawyer and amateur economist. And I have been reading these articles of Mr. Mahazeri. Furthermore I am well aquainted with Marxist philosophy.
How about your quick judgements …
We have a few rules here and I suggest you go and read the moderation policy.
Your comment had nothing to do with the content.
First you made a statement with no ground to stand on, about our writer. You do know the difference between opinion and fact, do you not? We do not insult writers on the Saker Blog and make insinuations based on what they are and what they may be. You simply don’t know.
Then second, you made a statement with no ground to stand on, about the Saker Blog. We do not insult the Saker Blog.
And then you want your statements to stand based on claimed educational credentials. It’s the internet dude! My dog has a Doctorate from Yale.
I would request that as you now know to go and read the moderation and blog policy and can modify your comments accordingly, that there would be no reason for you to respond to this so, I would request that you simply don’t.
I agree. And I feel something more sinister is taking place. I feel they are really trying to “nazify” whole Western (primarily EU population) in order to make sure they don’t sway away from the designated course of action. Russophobia, xenophobia and similar are very powerful opioids for the common masses in the west. They would never be successful in the past if they didn’t have wide popular support. They hit the spot of old grievances and appeal to a common man. Hitler used this ideology for a reason to unify and direct the masses. I don’t know but I can’t accept that its coincidence that whole British parliament and American congress are chanting old Nazi salutes to Zelensky in a t-shirt with iron cross, while the media portrays favourably men with black sun on their chest. They are trying to summon something what they consider useful and powerful. It’s truly like Sauron and the Orcs
Withney Webb, who’s often very propective in her outlook – with everything it entails, has a recent piece suggesting elements that might substance your “something more sinister is taking place”. https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/03/investigative-reports/ukraine-and-the-new-al-qaeda/
As a north amercian, I fear we will be faced with 2 alternative outcomes, fulscale war or – if the US finally stops escalating – a modern version of 1984 encompassing north america, the 5 eyes and possibly some bits of western Europe, with zone B free and moving forward.
For the world, the second is certainly the best, but for north amercians – and I’m thinking of my young kids, it will mean growing up and living in a totalitarian society. The presure to conform and the supression of debate is already stupefying in Canada.
…as said by ID earlier “I disagree, The PR war in the west can never be won no matter what Russia does. Uncle Shmuel will tell whatever it wants in the Empire of Lies.”
For the elite it was time to switch to something very big, so big and powerful to beat-back more than two years of the Corona narrative. And that happened to be Russia’s mission in the Ukraine. Just yesterday at the US Senate, hundreds of attendees not wearing masks watched Zelinski promote WW3. The globalists have had their minds made up long ago on the disintegration of the Russian state. The case about Nazi, Nali, Fascism … won’t change things.
Also it is obvious those at the decision making in Moscow, Beijing and even Tehran know full well what’s going on, only they need some time.
Yeah this guy thinks him not understanding matters, or thst russia cares if my 65 year old mom can understand bandera movement and them being armed and used as a way to invade loot and enslave Russians.
Totally ignores the perspective of Kirill and the metaphysical aspect of the war, and thinks Russia cares if a bunch of braindead brainwashed idiots understand.
This is past the point of talking. The people that were armed are nazis, like literally. Heil Hitler nazis.
The people thst armed Azov etc by extension are Nazis because they run bio labs all over the world, topple governments, create crisis, etc and it’s all for a globalist homo transhumanist anti freedom satanist pedophile type agenda.
Russia doesn’t give a shit any more. All these people are Nazis and they will by systemically liquidated whether the rest of the world understands it or not!
the western media and govt are just retarded. it seems only WW3 can deretard them.
Of interest, at least because it identifies some significant public backlash at this ridiculous mainstream “news” narrative:
‘ Manchester Evening News dubs Ukrainian World War II Nazi collaborator a “hero” ‘
Manchester has one of the larger Jewish communities in England. Whoever got this article in the Manchester Evening News past the US/UK censors of the MSM probably knew exactly what they were doing and the reaction it would elicit. However they probably succeeded in getting some idiot in the 77th Brigade to approve it.
It doesn’t matter. All of the Western Jews are on board with these Ukrainian Nazis. Don’t ask me to explain it. It’s because Western Jews are part of the West. Also a lot of Western Jews really hate Russia because of the fake “Let my people go” nonsense about the Soviet Jews and the fake antisemitism they experienced, the poor babies.
Look, the PR campaign is irrelevant. No matter how Russia spun the campaign, the western propaganda would twist it back.
“We’re going after people who wear swastikas and glorify Hitler!” versus “How dare you! What have you got against malformed venerable Celtic symbols and Germans!”
“We’re crushing vermin who rape and kill people for pleasure!” versus “How dare you! What have you got against rats finding pleasure?”
It doesn’t matter how long it takes, tarnish the truth, bury it, stomp it into the mud – it invariably comes out of the mud, polishes up and glistens. The immediate PR campaign was lost before it started because the US, its’ minion states and their masters don’t care about the truth. Why bother to fight a war that’s on enemy turf and lost before you start?
Longer term, what people will eventually remember is that they were lied to – and their government did it.
Sadly the people never remember their governments lie to them. Big sigh.
While we watch tv, listen to big pHarm pimp thier drugs while stating matter of fact the numerous and deadly side effects… Millions scrambled to drink the juice… And they keep scrambling to drink the deadly slimy. And of course, how the people forget the experiments, how we have always been unwitting guinea pigs.. How they disclose the truth later… Nobody cares… As long as they have their alcohol.
If the west continues to recognize only the Jews(the chosen set of people) as humans. I think this war is even already justified. It will sell a new PR to those uneducated PhDs that you cannot continue learning lies.
20 million Russians died and they are doing what they have done in the past again. A time has come for all of them to understand what it means for a Russian life. It matters and every one of them matters.
I would not even mind going into war with a country like Romania if I ever hear a Russian life is taken there. This will send a very strong message that Russian lives matter. Unborn child Russian life matters more than ever. Russia playing underdogs for far too long. They will only throw more thrash and make fool of many people. Enough is enough.
Yes, the restauration has started. The oligarchy will be swept away. These fully parassits will have to pay for the disaster made in Russia and Ukraine.
The losses of Soviet Union were around 20M. These were not only Russians but included >6M Ukrainians. Percentually Ukraina lost more than Russia.
Russia has no presence in the western media so it makes no difference what they might say …
NATO have a strangle hold on the media so reality or logic are of no relevance.
Russia/China lost the propaganda war because they never bothered to try and if they tried anything at all it was worse the unless. Its painful to watch. They were (And still are) simply too lazy and stupid to even care.
– Russia/China lost the propaganda war
It is too early to conclude. People want to be on the winning side.
– As I told you …
And Russia is the winning side
Sounds like someone is mentally trapped in Zone A: their opinion is irrelevant, stop trying to reason with chauvinistic fanatics. Zone B tends to see it for what it is (except the gringo-wannabe upper middle classes).
“Mentally trapped in Zone A” is accurate. In Europe, the media has been literally taking images of the Ukrainian attack on Donbass civilians and passing them off as Russian attacks. There is no point to attempt any kind of PR toward these people, and Russia’s choice of words would make no difference whatsoever.
Europe and the 5 Eyes constantly claim to represent “the world” and “the international community”. Although one may be aware of what a lie this is, it is still easy to fall prey to the gaslighting and to slip back to allowing such claims to affect one emotionally. If you do not continuous guard yourself psychologically, you will, quite simply, still be a victim of the psy-op.
I just wrote a comment saying the same.
Western opinion does not exist as something independent. The newspapers, TVs and social media are controlled and they pass what they want to pass.
In my country (Spain) a Spanish-Ukrainian basketball player from Doneskt spoke clear about the crimes of Ukrainian government in east Ukraine. His Interview only appear in a regional newspaper from a city of 80000 people. All the TV and big newspapers silence him.
People who expressed a divergent opinion in TV are not appearing there any more.
And I know even normal people who lost their job for defending Russia in social media (coworkers denounce them and company fired them).
Everyone who would express even a little support or understanding to Russia is being cancel.
The media and newspapers are lying literally everyday.
The West is a pure dictatorship, and it is time people understand this. I am a westerner and I have said this during almost a decade
The PR war only matters in the West, to a fickle and partial western audience. On the ground and in Eurasia it is meaningless. Events are being decided and not in western MSM or social media.
I think the author is confusing the issue. The notion that Russia has lost the PR game because of the poor choice of using “denazification” to justify the military operation in Ukraine is absurd!
There is no way for Russia to win any PR style on the issue no matter what, since there is no equal playing field. It is not that the Russians are given equal time on CNN, Sky, BBC, MSNBC,….(and one could say the numerous aligned media in many countries including India, Iran, ….).
To Russians, “denazification” is reminiscent of the Great Patriotic War and this approach has been highly effective as indicated by surveys showing greater than 65% of Russians support the operations. The fact that “denazification” does not seem to “fly” in the West is firstly because of the real strong influence of the Ukra-Nazi’s in the Ukraine state power is not covered in the West. Also, in the West, the meaning of the Nazi ideology is misrepresented by limiting it to its anti Jewish flavor whereas Nazi ideology is in fact rooted in the system that boasts liberalism, as we have seen in the fascist tendency to suppress alternate views on the current war and the surrounding issues,….
So, the author has posed the problem incorrectly and thus has found incorrect solutions. He does pose a good question though regarding the potential willingness of the Russian leadership to distance itself from the prevailing economic system in the country.
If China realy has satelites that can blow up other satelites then the way to win the PR war is to blow up all Western media satelites. But I doubt it will happen.
“…but a military operation in Ukraine based on “denazification” has been a total public relations disaster everywhere else.”
I don’t think Russia cares. Everyone who is relevant knows. Lemmings who get their thoughts uploaded by the Hive Mind Matrix are important, how exactly? You can’t really argue with them. It’s a cult of hate and confusion. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Russia didn’t teach me and neither should people expect Russia to always play the role of babysitter.
Here is a quote from Putin I found on Pepe’s Twitter. Not sure if legit.
“I don’t condemn at all those who have a villa in Miami or on the French Riviera who can’t do without foie grass, oysters or so-called gender freedoms.
But that is absolutely not the problem. And, I repeat, the problem is that many of these people are essentially, mentally there, and not here with our own people, not with Russia. And this, in their opinion, is a sign of belonging to the higher caster, to the higher race.
Such people would sell their mother, just to be allowed to sit in the anteroom of this highest caste. And they want to be like them, imitating them in every way.”
Yes, it is from Putins address to the regional leaders yesterday.
Nobody on Earth is entitled to lecture the Russians about anything related to nazism. Who cares what “the West” thinks. For the record, it was “the West” who has created nazism and threw it against Russia in the first place. So, you know, screw “the West”.
This is a part of a major concern that many pro-Russian Ukrainians have and a big part of why Russia also doesn’t have as much sway there as they had originally believed.
Many people in the modern day former Ukraine fear that Russia will actually negotiate with the Zelensky regime as they claim, will reach some sort of treaty, and then all the Nazis (or as this article prefers- Nalis) will just come back to murder, kidnap, rape and torture with impunity just like they did since 2014. This is why so few people openly support Russia in Ukraine even though secretly there are many more Russian collaborators among the population.
I dont believe that Russia will actually treat negotiations with Zelensky as anything beyond Kabuki theater, but I understand with and fully agree with their concerns. Russia should stop ever even claiming that they’ll negotiate. Putin needs to never utter the words “our western partners” again. The Russian elite is extremely intelligent and highly cynical, which has served them well, but without developing and understanding their ideology they cannot truly succeed. Right now ideology is a taboo idea in the Duma because even now many of them cling to the illusion that they might some day be part of the glamorized “western world”.
This frustration- that Russian elites are ultimately traitors to the people and only act against the US for the sake of their own success, is one that is very common in Russian society.
If Putin stops even a centimeter short of at least the Zhitomir- Vinnitsa axis, and if those lands do not become proper Oblasts of the Russian Federation shortly after the cleansing and rebuilding, then he will be betraying the Russian people because he will be allowing for the return of these nalis yet again.
I pray for a cultural revolution in Russia on the model of the one in Iran, as do so many others- and yet the best we have right now is the fucking Latin letter Z. Not even a Cyrillic letter to denominate the movement for Russian unity and the pursuit of truth.
I think people really did not understand Mazaheris (RM) article this time. And the fault lies in the word “PR” RM used. And realistically it is a hard topic that he picks up, specially if you only have seen the “WLD”.
My take of the article was exactly what Ivan writes about, and some times you can read The Saker mention, eg. how The Saker wishes the Russian orthodox church would take up the mantle and replace the paradigms in the Russian political world based on their beliefs.
But right now RM have a point in that no one really knows what the Russians really stand for? Is the war in the Ukraine, seen from the Russians point of view, a war against the western norms and values, or is it a local “small technical” dispute, that they are going to find a settlement for with their western partners? And will everything go back to being all dandy IF and after a said settlement could be found? Would that be possible? Yes, if Russia has the same values as the western world has, an interest egoistic point of view. No, if they have an alternative worldview revolving around some ethics.
So Im guessing that even Russia does not know where they really stand in this equation. Maybe Putin/the top brass, has a vision and is trying to transition the country as softly as possible, and they are restricted in what they can disclose to the world. But it is obvious that the Russian state up until now has itself been a subscriber to the WLD worldview. And if Russia wants to stay in that worldview, then this fight in the Ukraine is no longer a “just fight” that people around the world should rally around for.
In fact, turning it around, it is quite easy understanding why the empire wants to terminate not only Russia, but every type of “nigger”, as the saker puts it. It is in the western world view, their WLD, that dictates that the planet and its resources are up for the grabs, only for them, no matter the cost/death of others.
As RM asks, if it is only “Nazism” Russia is fighting, then okay i understand that term in the Ukraine and to a degree for Poland too, but where else on the planet would that term really apply to? Where else on the planet does “Nazism” hold a real power as they do in the Ukraine? And honestly is Nazism the “real reason” for Russian going into Ukraine? Was it not Putin whom said that even though there exist Nazis in Russia the problem is that in the Ukraine they had power to implement their thoughts. What he did not clarify was what paradigm got the Nazis to power in the Ukraine? Well by virtue of the WLD worldview. Hence the “Nazism problem” is, at best, understood as a local sub problem, even in Russia.
It is as if saying that if we changed the Nazis with lets say people like the leaders of other European countries, then Russia would not have had intervened in the Ukraine. So the Nazism problem is in reality metastasized from the real issue, eg. western worldview.
I do see how RM uses “PR failure” in this regard, and it is maybe for spicing up the debate he coins it that way, but the reality is that there is a deeper fundamental ideological shortcoming regarding explaining the Russian motivation eg. going into the Ukraine, and more so, how they will tackle the sanctions. Im not saying that in the real world it will be a problem, in the short run it does not have to be, see how “communist” china is able to implement the most capitalistic paradigms in their country…
And so Russia can have “western liberal democracy” at hart, and still implement any arbitrary policy they seem fit in the moment, even ones that are against the same “western liberal democracy” paradigms. It reminds me of the video the saker posted with a fat guy chaining him self to a McDonalds in Moscow. Well, we will see if Russia really chains it self to western liberal thoughts or not. ;)
Thank you, Ivan and Arash Shahriar
Now we’re talking! Now I understand what was bothering me for a long time. Sadly we’ve got “lost in translation” case with Ukraine.
Ideas are important. Clear explanations have a bearing. Too many noble causes have failed because they were misunderstood, misinterpreted, twisted…
Even the most benevolent intentions must have a good PR to be accepted. It is often overlooked that propaganda can help spread the truth, too.
The USA Ministry of Defense puts in about 50 Billion Dollars every year with direct PR Campaigns aka Misinformation. Its a number that was floated around 10 years ago. I think its now more like 100 Billion Dollars because the big Tech Companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter or Microsoft are also playing to that tune. So Russia never stood a chance, the Media Monopoly is on the side of the US and their Vassall States, because Germany for example also puts in about 20 Billion Euros into the big Media Organisations and the State owned Media.
So you have a constant cacophony of lies and misinformation, its even more stupid than the whole Covid Narrative. To counter that Russia would have had to put in as much as 1-2 Trillion Dollars in the last 10 years, thats insane. Its better it never put in as much effort and money into this stupid endeavour, because it will not save the West, its an anchor which will further drown it. To much lies, to much bullshit, to much imaginary tales of the Ghost of Kiev or the ‘Heroes’ of the Snake Island. Who cares what PR Campaigns the West pushes, I am in the West and I am not listening even a couple of minutes anymore to this shrill moronic shite the West broadcasts
The truth is a shield and buckler and will in the long term prevail
Russia should’ve lead with nuclear non-proliferation and alarm about NATO. During his first address he should’ve spoke over a grisly montage of NATO’s handywork in Libya and then discussed the tens of millions that died during WW2. You can conclude that it’s part of an anti-fascist struggle. And that’s how it’s done. No point doing a boring lecture in political theory. That’s no good.
I think it’s appropriate. That’s what they are.
Yes, it’s appropriate and it’s not at all a PR disaster, on the contrary, That’s what the Ukrainian junta as well as the ones running the West are. Whether 95% of Western citizens and the cows in the barn there realize that or not.
Nazism (i.e. Ashkenazi mafia terror and tyranny) is “Western Liberal Democracy” without mask. (which was falling off, anyway)
With the Hitler Project and Operation Barbarossa the crypto-Nazi West and Nazi Germany tried to destroy independent Russia. They still do. Germany (and the West) is still run by the same (crypto-) Nazi thugs, they merely changed uniform. The ones in the Ukraine didn’t even do that. So the analogy on which Russia bases its special military operation is actually very good and aimed at zone B and 5% of zone A. Never mind the cows in the barn.
Thanks Ramin! for opening up this issue. Yes, it is a PR disaster, but calling this out, the sheer visible nazi’ism across the western sphere is perhaps worth more than the PR.
I have a sister that asks me what is happening. Last question was … What about these Ukrainians? I said .. The ones who are fighting, are Nazis. She said .. you mean Heil Hitler style Nazis? I said .. Yes. She said, well, wish the Russians well for me then!. It took no more than that word, and we were on one page. What is stronger at the end of the day .. the bad bad PR, or the real understanding of what nazi’ism is and therefore what de-nazification means? Those that get it, get it immediately.
A quick opinion by Maria Zakharova just today:
We have to ourselves get immune from the comments from the western sphere.
Strangle enough both cultures (German and American) were openly practicing eugenics probably w/a side of nazi going into the late roaring twenties. The Germans kept theirs public for some reason, publically it was condemed here but heavily practiced in private.
The Germans jumped and publically paid the price in ww II, but the Americans continued their Fed experiment privately until this very day of exposure, and now no one wants to admit holding the tainted bag yet it is there for all weary eyes to somehow see.
Do they honestly think the US public won’t in the end deal with those behind it ?
Fauci and Gates and others are going to get a surprise package soon.
One would prefer to believe so, but then again, if it hasn’t happened by now, will it ever?
Criminals indicting and trying criminals? In a world of disinformation, lies, hustles, and widespread grift? Unlikely.
But don’t despair. If the US gets its war, it’s possible that Russia will decapitate the leadership here, to protect Russia’s existence. That will be a good day in the world (or week).
True, amarynth, I´ve got that question too, in Sweden. Swedes really understand what nazism is, and they don´t at all associate it with anti-semitism, the majority think “nazism is Hitler and Hitler is terrible”. But as suspected, the misleading MSM-media never say a word about nazism in Ukraina, in social medias the truth is appearing, but Facebook for instance know how loaded nazism is, and they who for instance share pictures of ukrainan nazists in Canada saying goodbye after their trainingcamp are suspended from Facebook, at first for days, then weeks and so on….still we can write about nazism in Ukraina, and the truth is appearing in very very slow motion….at least in some groups on Facebook. But the propaganda against Russia is huge. School educated that the WWII depended on Hitler. Not many swedes even know who defeated him,they don´t know anything about the brave russian people and their leader. Stalin and Hitler are the same in MSM. “The thougts of the rulers are the ruling thoughts” is relevant for Sweden, but that´s on the surface, for instance the majority don´t want a Natomembership, we were cheated into the Host agreement with Nato, people from both left and right were against it if they had understood the purpose of it , the agreement was never discussed in public, the polticians kept silent about it, and then we suddenly were linked with Nato and they are allowed to have bases here, if the ruling government decides it.
Yes the Jews who run (((Facebook))) ban you for days and then weeks for pointing out that Ukraine is swarming with Nazis.
Dude, anti-fascist is the preferred nomenclature.
Who cares what the “Empire of Lies” and their Hollywood propaganda corps believes?
Thanks to the West, Nazi imagery is very strong globally. Everyone knows Nazis were the bad guys.
And that makes this brilliant PR for the intended audience. Non-Westerners. The sort of people who will join BRICs.
It is pointless for Russia to try to engage PR over Western media when Western media has been run the intelligence services for decades.
It doesn’t matter what The West thinks. Not at all.
Nobody West of the Oder River understood it? West of the Elbe River perhaps …
There is zero chance of getting average westerner’s to care what is happening in Ukraine or Russia or much less make any attempt to wade down threw all the disinformation .
The point is that even if a average westerner disagrees, he can not say public.
I am a westerner and I know people who lost their jobs for express supporting opinion to Russia
Western public opinion have the same value that a public opinion in the most totalitarian dictatorship.
Lost their jobs for supporting Russia! Wow! This is what we are up against.
I disagree with what the author says. I am in the “West’, and I clearly see the fascism in the Ukrainian side. Who else worships a statue of Stepan Bandera? Has a street named after him? Marches with torches and SS flags? However, I believe this was all a shot or ploy that the West created, to further incite hatred on the Russians by their neighbors the Ukrainians. Sad ain’t it?
At this point, what the West thinks should not matter anymore, as their media will try to control the narrative regardless.
“Denazification” is what Russia is doing in Ukraine. It’s the truth. It doesn’t NEED a PR spin or polish or a politically correct filter. I (an American) for one am sick and tired of all this PR BS; it’s refreshing that one world leader is willing to actually say what he means and do what he says. And I know I am not alone. There are millions more, here in the U.S., like me. If a college professor is so uninformed on what’s been happening in Ukraine over the past 8 years that he can’t understand what the term means, then he can remain uninformed but I would put no weight in his opinions since he is no more astute than the Average Joe who trusts what the mainstream media feeds him with the “evening news” every night. Speaking for myself, I was glad to hear it when Putin said the goal in Ukraine was to denazify and demilitarize the Ukraine. And when it’s finished, maybe the poor citizens of that country will finally get some rest.
PR?really? I stopped reading when I saw that.
Pity! That means that a well-constructed argument with some merit will pass you by. Sorry buddy!
But the premises are wrong, this is not a PR war, it is an existential war, not only for Russia, but a war on which the whole course of world history depends. I too stopped reading as soon as I saw PR. Would Hitler have been acceptable if he had communicated differently, while remaining Hitler in all things?
Hitler was acceptable long enough for millions of people to lost their lives. In this regard, every war is a PR war.
Majority shuts down the conversation when they are guilty of the crime.
If Russia has to play by the same rules of lying and deception, why bother even defending your own country?
The winner of this conflict will not be decided by DaEveningNews!
Reality rules….after patiently doing what you intended to do.
If you can’t call a spade a spade, that’s not Russia’s fault. The symbol of Azov has the black sun, the Wolfs Angel of the 2nd SS Tank division. They are supporters of Bandera. The blood and soil flag of Pravij Sektor. Blaming Russia because the West is devoid of all intellect is just stupid. PR disaster? No, it is a Western intellectual disaster and a success of Western propaganda. They used groups like AntiFa to whitewash everything. They intentionally call everything Hitler in juvenile arguments to make any discussion seem that way. Add flat earther types pushing Holocaust denials despite everything. To argue they don’t exist is stupid. The West is just showing their true colors. Amazon was selling Azov Merchandise. Good for them.
The Russians did not fail in their PR campaign, because getting good PR was not Russia’s goal. The West has demonized Russia and V.V. Putin for over a decade, this negative image cannot be washed away quickly by any PR campaign. Those that have been paying attention to the demonization already know what’s going on. The rest are uninformed and mostly uninterested in the complexities of the conflict between Russia and the West, of which the special operation in Ukraine is just a symptom.
Denazifiaction is the correct term; just because most people in the West unquestioningly absorb the distortion and outright lies presented by the Billionaire owned media, does not mean that Russia should alter words describing reality to try to get through to the ill-informed. Nazism doesn’t equal anti-Semitism, that is a Zionist distortion. Nazi ideology believed in the superiority of the pure, unadulterated white/Germanic “race;” pure blood, not mixed with other “races,” not weakened by mixing with physically or mentally inferior groups. This ideology emerged from eugenics, a widely accepted perspective during the early 20th century.
The current breed of Nazis in Ukraine share the belief in being of pure blood, distinct from Russians, whom they view as inferior. Just today RT revealed that “A Ukrainian state body for historic research has published nine arguments on Monday for why Ukrainians and Russians cannot be called brotherly nations, including one that stated that Ukrainians are pureblood Slavs, while Russians count people from Ugro-Finnish tribes among their ancestors.” https://www.rt.com/russia/552060-ukrainian-pure-blood-museum/
PR is the M.O. of the West – creating a narrative, repeating it, and disseminating it ad nauseum through all it’s channels, so-called news media (TV and print), social media, and even through so-called educational institutions. This is not Russia’s way of doing things. It’s dishonest and vulgar. Russia is on a civilizational quest – her method is truth and honor. The West meanwhile is collapsing culturally and socially, likely to be followed by economic break down. Russia will prevail in this confrontation eventually. The vanquished won’t take long to side with the victor, since their opinions are easily shaped and thus quickly replaced.
Some excellent points – especially asserting that in order to beat the sanctions Russia will have to unequivocally take the socialist road.
but substituting ‘nalis’ (or anyting) for ‘nazis’ would not make much of a difference. the west is not a good faith actor and (as the author himself acknowledges) will back the ‘nalis’ until the end, for a number of reasons that we all know, not the least of them being that ‘liberal democracy’ and fascism are pretty much twin form of management of the capitalist state. when one fails (as in Ukraine), they will resort to the other
What part of the West controls the entire MSM don’t you understand? The West has blocked every Russian Media Site or badly disrupted it. No matter how much evidence Russia showed Westerners didn’t see it. And don’t forget there are countless photos and videos of the Uki Nazis but the are are immediately removed from Western eyes.
Honestly, what a ridiculous article.
Thank you very much for the interesting article.
The PR aspect and fine points about Nazism’s components exorbitant to the racial aspect are true, but not particularly relevant in a context where Russia’s position is completely absent from the public sphere in the West (judging from a North American perpective).
I believe Mr Mazaheri’s point towards the end of the article is crucial: Russia’s complete break with the West requires an authentic foundational project for its society and economy, or it will fail. This can be put in parallel with décolonisation in the 20th century, I remember reading Gandhi or even Albert Memmi saying that you need much more than opposition and affirmation to free yourself from imperialism. You need an authentically original project based on clear principles and ideology that will serve as a loadstone to build the rest.
I get my news from this site and I’m ignorant about Russia – appologies, but I have the feeling that we are starting to see the beginning of this dynamic with respect to the economy, more frequent mentions of Glazyev as a potential architect for a thorough restructuring of the Russian economy indépendant from the West, etc.
With respect to aspects other than the economy, I believe a text from professor Karaganov might convince Mr Mahazeri that an original réflexion trying to ground Russian society on other bases is currently taking place.
The last part of the article, “Questions for the future” is the most relevant for my point. Allow me to quote some parts:
“ We need to start working towards intellectual independence after we achieve military security and political and economic sovereignty. In the new world, it’s compulsory to achieve development and exert influence. Mikhail Remizov, a prominent Russian political scientist, was the first, as far as I know, to call this ‘intellectual decolonization’.
“ Is democracy really the pinnacle of political development? Or is it just another tool that helps the elites control society, if we are not talking about Aristotle’s pure democracy (which also has certain limitations)? There are many tools that come and go as society and conditions change. Sometimes we abandon them only to bring them back when the time is right and there’s external and internal demand for them. I’m not calling for boundless authoritarianism or monarchy. I think we have already overdone it with centralization, especially at the municipal government level. But if this is just a tool, shouldn’t we stop pretending that we strive for democracy and put it straight – we want personal freedoms, a prosperous society, security, and national dignity? But how do we justify power to the people then?
“ I can go on and on, especially when it comes to the economy. These questions need to be asked and it’s vital to find answers as soon as possible in order to grow and come out on top. Russia needs a new political economy – free from Marxist and liberal dogmas, but something more than the current pragmatism our foreign policy is based on. It must include forward-oriented idealism, a new Russian ideology incorporating our history and philosophical traditions. This echoes the ideas put forward by the academic Pavel Tsygankov.”
Your to long article is well written in many ways, but methinks you might be nipping at the edges of a much larger historic realignment in world affairs.
I’m a US citizen, with a geopolitical background. First Mr Putin had to make sure the Russian population would support his actions. The Russian people, not the Americans, lost millions of souls to the ww2. The elites, our president congress, corporate heads, university types, and all media here in the good ole USA…could give a dam what Russia says…they intensely hate all things Russian. I live here, I hear it every day…really I’m not sure why that hate is in their hearts and souls. Many, many average Americans have no dislike for russians..many, such as myself, support the actions of Russia. But our leaders are weak and soft. They would like to discuss gender issues, race issues, social media opinions, etc. They are shocked by the turn of events. Real events…Putin, in a very fine speech, simply said …We are going to do this…and if you don’t like it…come and stop us.
Your president has much bigger fish to fry than just Ukraine. He is many moves ahead of the west..the Global South idea, use of gold and real money, use of natural resources to reshape this world. My leaders are to slow and dumb to see where he is going. They have no idea they are losing..yet..but when it finally dawns on them …that is when the world will be in danger. They will destroy this planet to keep their status and money. Do not be to pleased with the Ukraine adventure…there is grave danger in the foreseeable future for all of mankind.
I’m sorry for the families of Russia today…the husband’s, sons, and fathers of your citizens that die in Ukraine. They are helping to take the garbage out of Ukraine. I’m equally sorry my country put it there in the first place. The very best to each of you across the miles…take care. Ed
Ed, this is a fine comment, thoughtful, precise, and covers the main points. I especially like your empathy with all the grieving families. Your article resonates well with the main themes in Putin’s speeches, namely, that the global nazis, using local ones, are not only threatening local genocide in Donbass but are, in fact, threatening Russia’s destruction, the main objective of western powers for the last 300+ years
Few, very few, people realize that Ukraine was (during USSR) a formidable scientific, technological and industrial nation, which, in spite of dramatic theft and looting by oligarchs (starting in 1991) still retained its capacity to produce tanks (Kharkov), rockets and space technology ( Yuzhmash in Dnepropetrovsk), nuclear weapons, mining, chemical, biological and agricultural, industry.
What could go wrong if it gets absorbed into Nato ?
Best regards, Spiral
Cudos!! My feelings exactly.
Ramon, I disagree with your assessment in a lot of aspects.
1.- No matter what PR campaign Russia has, the Western world will opaque it with it’s own, since all the Western media is under one directive.
2.- For legitimacy, you can not change it much less to a quasi Nali convept, you can adapt it and make more emphasis on the atrocities comitted by the West through its proxies. Make sure people understand it is about the West more than404.
3.- in time more people will grasp Russias reasons, but you have to push through, repeat and repeat, do not budge, every day more evidence is uncovered,?and if you start amounting enough, the West will not be able to counter all, like the upland, human shields, false propaganda, lies from Z and it’s entourage as well as the West, etc..
Also i might add that the greatest Propagandists, including like Edward Bernard and Goebbels proposed that the most effective propaganda is the one that is based on truth, and that propaganda based on lies might be effective in the short term but it tends to loose it’s effectiveness with time.
Attributed to Goebels but there is no evidence of ever have been written or said by him:
“ If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
What Goebels did say was:
“The truth is always stronger than the lie.”
He also wrote this:
“The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.“
He also stated multiple times that good propaganda had to be truthful.
Bernays for his part stated the same concepts many times.
The truth is on Russias side, use it.
Regarding PR, for the life of me, I don’t understand why Russia has never exposed the real truth behind 9/11. Wouldn’t right now be the best time to tell the world who really was responsible for this event. Surely, Russian intelligence have the real knowledge about this. If it was then exposed in the West, the turnaround amongst it’s population would be immediate.
It doesn’t end with just 9/11. I’m sure Russia (and China) have the real facts regarding hundreds if not thousands of events debunked as conspiracy theories. Roswell anyone?
The point is, Russia has enough I formation to show what the West is really like and what it has done throughout modern history. Russia (and China) have a moral and spiritual duty to expose these truths so that Western populations can finally realize they’ve been living a lie.
And also – doesn’t Russia have satelite images from the downing of MH17? If it is because of military secrets they have not yet published them, things must have changed since then, and no reason to not publish now. It must be another reason, but what?
The reason why now is the war in Ukraine is not over. When it is over, then it is possible that many of these things will be released. Russia would not benefit from doing it now. The west would be ignore it as “propaganda”. The war in Ukraine has to be won first.
One of the most important tasks the russian society is facing at this moment, is climbing out of 30 year long slumber of consumerism, born by the difficult and spartan soivet citizen’s existence, and a sudden shift-betrayal by the Central Committee functioners, delivering the country into sweaty capitalists’ hands.
The fact of experiencing, in the 1940s, the fate of ‘ripe for genocide” nationality, from the solidly determined “nazis”, makes it a perfectly suitable unifying idea to wake up from the “consumerism slumber”, as the whole, as the unified socium. And it works, rather beautifully. The West, of which we speak, in turn, all of the sudden, offers complete support to this old-new understanding of its’ nature, acting the way nazis did some ninety years ago, this time to ALL russians. Sigh of relief, separation, who cares of what the West thinks from now on. The unity of russian people – this is what counts, thanks to demonstrating your true face, goodbye.
PR? There is no translation into russian of these two letters, anymore.
I think this is an over reaction and clearly a conclusion come to by watching too much western propaganda.
It has been a huge success and telling the truth always wins through in the end. Years later The truth always comes out.
The fact that there are Neo Nazis is the only reason Russia is getting any support from the public in different countries in the West. That public support is Growing on a daily Basis.
1.2 million watched George Galloway talk show last night. Many more in America are catching up with the truth on social media. Millions more around the world.
If there wasn’t neo nazis involved and the role they played. Russia would have close to zero support anywhere. It would be much more difficult than it currently is to explain the military operation. Russia would definitely be on their own.
If you think down playing the role of the neo nazis and the HUGE role they have played since before the coup has failed. Try it by calling them simple farmers and see how you would have got on. That would have been abject failure.
Putin was right by calling a spade a spade. It has served him well for many years.
The Western public know very well not ALL Ukrainians are Neo nazis. But Now many are just finding out for the first time, those who are, and what they did, and the atrocities they committed.
Ramin, you make a good point about the revolutionary imperative that Russia seems to be launched upon, whether she knows it or not. We shall see how it evolves.
And as you note, the influence of China is in the game. It’s an influence that we don’t see much above the surface, but one has to imagine how greatly the Demonstration Effect from China’s revolution impinges on the Russian mind.
As to the PR – no, I disagree, for the reasons given by many others here. The propagandized, by definition, have no agency. They don’t matter. It doesn’t matter how US politicians pander to the ignorance of the populace, the Pentagon says where the red lines really are.
I’ve long said – and dear Saker has given me lots of practice with his own anxiety about Russia’s “losing the info war” – that Russia doesn’t fight back in the terms of the opponent. She doesn’t bandy words at the same level. Instead, she changes whole paradigms. As she is doing now.
Historians will note the words of Russia today and ultimately write the layered stories of fascism – those stories, I believe, will reflect Putin’s words much more than any others. I think Russia has chosen the words that will eventually be adopted by history.
The Nazis of Ukraine may not fit the definition of the classical Nazi, but that’s what they emulate, and what they think they are.
They all think that cruelty is a force that acts upon the other, rather than a degradation that acts upon the self. The full story of fascism will include many definitions, I suspect – but there will be simple words agreed on for the labels.
I think that the planners in the Kremlin know very well that the west has a monopoly on the Narrative. As others here say, Russia can’t break into that monopoly.
So the Kremlin decides, don’t even bother. Don’t waste one grain of resources on it. Spend all our energy on the goal itself. Change what we can. Don’t worry about what we can’t change. And have the wisdom to know the difference.
If they block our websites, don’t fight back – change the theater instead. Make the story go away because the west wants it buried after it loses and surrenders and retreats. Let the west work on the meaningless air, says Russia, while we work on the ground. Then the Russian websites will come back online.
With the story of the world changed, and forever.
No the Russians are right. The “Empire of Lie” political discourse is so Orwellian and convoluted that a shock to the system was needed. Russia calling the Ukrainian Nazis , nazis was thr exact measure to lance the boil. The fake liberal “Rules based order” has to be brought down. By showing the real face of the democrats the Russians are doing the world a service. Do not forget it was the “liberal” regime of FDR that threw Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps and then launched genocidal B-29 fire bonb raids all over Japan. Rhe Empire of Lies must be defeated.
Russia’s choice of the term “denazification” is appropriate because it is correct.
I don’t know what reactions people in other parts of the world really have, but in Chinese internet spaces, I’ve been seeing a lot of people finally talking and learning about the Azov and the other Nazi groups in the Ukraine, about what has been happening to Donbass for the last 8 years, about former Third Reich officers in NATO and other Western institutions post-WW2, and about the deep connections between Nazism and the US. I also saw the immense amount of shock and disgust at the Western world’s wild hatred for everything Russian, and at the way it has ripped off all masks of “fair play” and “tolerance”. Many people still had rose-tinted glasses (to greater or lesser extent) toward Europe and so-called international institutions (e. g. in sport, culture, academia, etc.), especially; those glasses are being ripped off.
At least in one country of 1.4 billion people, I would say that the “PR disaster” is happening to the West.
Dude, when you are justifying a war, the most important audience, by far, is the domestic one. The Russian people know exactly what is meant by the term “nazis”, as do the Ukrainians and Belarus.
Porque le debería interesa a Rusia como interpreta “occidente” su concepción del nazismo???
Rusia arma su relato para el mercado interno y el externo afin.
Todos hablan a tropa propia. Hoy en día nadie convence a nadie.
Rusia asume asume que en “occidente” (Europa y Usa) el discurso lo imponen ellos, como “ellos” asumen que en Rusia, el discurso es impuesto por los rusos.
Tampoco entiendo que cambiaría????
En mi opinión el planteo esta errado, porque esta pensado eurocentricamente.
Con respecto a lo económico, creo yo, que el objetivo del gobierno ruso es convertir a su oligarquía en burguesia. La guerra y las sanciones pueden forzar esa situación; que sería beneficiosa para un país que posee recursos humanos, naturales, tecnología y amplios sectores geográficos y demográficos, no hostiles, para redireccionar sus exportaciones. Rusia podría ser (no dico China) pero si Alemania (que digo, mas que Alemania porque posee recursos naturales)
MOD:Next time please translate your comments before posting them
Why should Russia be interested in how the “west” interprets its conception of Nazism???
Russia builds its story for the domestic market and the related foreign market.
They all speak to their own troops. Today no one convinces anyone.
Russia assumes assumes that in “the West” (Europe and USA) the discourse is imposed by them, just as “they” assume that in Russia, the discourse is imposed by the Russians.
I also don’t understand what would change????
In my opinion, the proposal is wrong, because it is thought Eurocentrically.
Regarding the economy, I believe that the objective of the Russian government is to turn its oligarchy into a bourgeoisie. War and sanctions can force that situation; that it would be beneficial for a country that possesses human and natural resources, technology and wide geographical and demographic sectors, not hostile, to redirect its exports. Russia could be (I don’t say China) but if Germany (what do I say, more than Germany because it has natural resources).
This wasn’t a PR disaster because no matter how Russia told its’ story, it wouldn’t have been won in the “West”, no matter what spin you put on it. Russia knew that. They did achieve victory within their local population and the Middle East, that’s a good victory.
I don’t know what to make of it. Declaring and painting white males in America as Nazis, well, it seems to work for the accusers. We’ll see how it works out for Russia. Yeah maybe the Russians are losing the information war l, but what happens on the ground is what counts. Of Nazis the Russians knows much more than you.
You can’t expect to “win” a PR battle with the Oscar winning exploits of the biggest liars ever known. Best to spend your energy in destroying the enemy and letting God sort them out
I would have recommended Putin literally say Russia is cleansing the Ukraine of Globohomo.
What a rhetorical masterpiece we would have witnessed!
While I agree that the immediate media blitz following Russia’s move into Ukraine was somewhat persuasive, as the Russians advance and the true stories emerge, that media blitz is losing some of its glitter.
Initially, the Russians were losing the war. They aren’t.
Initially, Putin did not enjoy the support of the Russian people. He does.
The whole Nazi meme was false. As young male Ukrainian refugees make their way west, Europe will become reacquainted with Nazis and what they represent.
Banning oil from Iran, Venezuela AND Russia turned into a disaster both for industry and motorists. An approach was made to Venezuela, and they asked for their gold back. So it looks like Iran may get to sell some of its oil on the open market.
And now it looks like that whole MH17 tragedy is going to get a re-run. That’s a rock the West might better leave unturned.
Russia is holding firm. Her friends are, too. It’s only been three weeks. Patience.
As to what will happen, is anyone here really comfortable making a prediction as to the opaque workings of Eastern European power politics.
The west is not the inglorious bastards they proclaim, there the baddies. Russia took the role of being the nazi slayer. Good for Russia.
Now today we have INFOWARS disclosing that the CIA has been at war with Russia since 2015.
Working with EU & UKN Nazis groups.
Them interfering in another country they had no business whatsoever to be there and in breach of the 1991 end of USSR agreements.
Even Trump is implicated. And Ive never trusted him entirely either.
I have no doubt the average American would take a baseball bat to anyone in the CIA.
And Obama and Soros are the devils at the top of this chain.
Well Ramin here we are again. I see your current article as both highly courageous and intellectually forward looking. It is in fact a highly principled socialist intellectual thrust. Man you really put the cat amongst the pigeons. It is easy to support the feelings and judgements of those here who sincerely disagree with you.
You write of a PR disaster on the part of Russia. You are not the only one saying so. But I fear many here will miss your deeper and more refined argument. That being political thought in the Western world is not really adequate to the political-economic reality currently facing it. This has been so for some time. Hence the confusion about the current embrace of Nazism on the part of both the Western capitalists and Zionists. Why are Jews and Nazis in bed together in Ukraine?. Well perhaps because the West has been solidly reactionary since England’s Glorious Revolution of 1688 when Jewish money became the foundation of Western political and economic power. It is just that the word for that reactionary rule keeps shifting – from liberalism to fascism to Nazism but it is really all the same energy. Its continuity needs greater exposure.
Reduced to its essence this is what I think you are implying, and it is easy for Western minds to overlook it because they are not culturally geared to see it. Both China and Iran are blessed to have long standing spiritual cultures that supports their socialist political cultures. Therefore they are able to refine and tune their intellectual work in politics with far greater clarity than those in the West. Because political thought in both China and Iran is now so securely established on these long standing spiritual foundations these nations can move forward with far greater moral self confidence and intellectual clarity in political consciousness than Westerners can generally conceive of.
Russia’s problem, as I see it, is that its political thought is really an import from Western Europe and it is accordingly compromised by that Western weakness. Unlike China and Iran, the West, and consequently Russia, are hamstrung by having a political paradigm that recognizes no foundation in spirituality. In fact Western, and by extension Russian, political thought tends to assume that it stands outside of and is in some respects hostile to spirituality. On the intellectual level at least. But this is your vital point is it not?
And then you come along and talk about Iranian spiritual socialism. Please tell us how does a spiritually poor
Western mind fit all of that into one paradigm. If the West can’t figure out that contradiction in political philosophy why expect Russia to be able to do it? For this reason it is practically impossible for Russia to avoid what you call a PR disaster. It is really a disaster in the spiritual quality of political thought. One leads to the other. But it takes someone like you to see it. Not any easy connection to make at all. So with honest and sincere responses the pigeons fly all around you here. Damn good work.
Okay i went through almost 3 pages of comments, an it is funny how people understood the text in a completely different way than you and i did.
Honestly this topic is never really understood by western people, and in my experience no one else outside of Iran cant even understand the problem let alone think about it. Most Iranians dont either, but the % wise is A LOT more than anywhere else on the planet, in my experience. Just look at this comment section…
But i wanted to say that the same way that Russia has an ideological shortcoming then so does China, and i will add that China has an even bigger mental paradox than Russians. I do not believe in the “long standing spiritual cultures that supports their socialist political cultures”, cause its obviously not civilizational cultural history China nor Russia lack, it is more about their leaders and the path their leaders did not choose. Most of the time because they could not see past their choices…
One of the biggest problems for China is that they really dont have this “spiritual culture supporting their political structure”, called an universal paradigm or thought. The Chinese are supposed to have a Communist political government, but in reality it implements something 180 degree from its so called “core beliefs”.
Most people in China are not that into politics simply cause the Chinese system really does not want people to poke into these paradoxes.
The Chinese president Xi has at some speeches hinted to going “back” to using and implementing “some” Confucianism into their paradigm, but even this thought is a mine field, because it was the same communist entity Xi represents that created the Cultural Revolution in the late 60’s, that went on to purge exactly thoughts like Confucianism. So as it stands most Chinese do not understand nor care why their government is doing A, B or C, they are just happy as long as it gets them to a higher “materialistic level”. Of course if they are helping people in need, eg. how Russia helped Syria, then thats only a bonus. As Saker types, Russia and China have had a “pragmatic” world relation, meaning dident have a universal world view.
While the western world for some time now has had a universal thought that it could feed not only its own citizens but to the world. Be what they called “Civilized vs not civilized world” in the colonialism or for the last 70 years been babbling about the universal western liberal democracy paradigm.
Most people do not even understand that it is through these thoughts that people actually act one way or the other. I have for many years looked into finding an alternative for the WLD, besides of course Velayat-e Faqih, and before 1991 the marxist worldview.
Cause i am Iranian i wanted to compare with the world and see what other people where subscribing to, and i found out no one out there where even taling about this issue. And today the WLD is breaking apart as we all can witness, what is left is only the Iranian model.
I know that Ramin dont believe in socialism died, and i agree with him only on the premise that we follow hes definition of socialism, witch is an Iranian one again… But we all know that all “socialist” countries outside of Velayat-e Faqih are really not sustainable on the mental plan. Look at the Scandinavian countries they are so called “socialist” for their own people, but in reality look at their politics for anyone else on this planet… They are just as neo liberals as the USA, how could they differ, when they are satellites??
So my point is, these days are a test for the Russians and the Chinese. Will they be able to come up with an universal thought that can satisfy the human soul, or will they keep on subscribing the western thoughts?
Disagree. Fighting the rhetoric war which all propaganda wars ultimately are is a bad idea because you’d be fighting where the enemy is strongest. The enemy is called the empire of lies for a reason.
The best way is to fight in a way that minimizes the enemy’s advantage while maximizing your own. I believe Russia is moderately successful here.
It’s shut enemy social media in Russia and controlled its own internal media space well.
It’s not used extreme economic retaliation which the enemy could use as an excuse for their collapsing system to retain what little legitimacy they have left.
It is utilizing its local military superiority to press for a diplomatic settlement.
I believe Putin’s role is to draw out the enemy’s attention and exhaust it while ultimately China and India will deliver the final blow via some form of massive economic move that will collapse the financial system of the empire of lies overnight.
I think the empire realizes this which is why it’s desperately and impotently threatening both China and India.
The US EU UK cannot ever hope to win this fight with Russia, China, India, Iran etc.. given all that gone on the past 2 years with lockdowns, vaccines and shortages and rising prices.
Its been a suicidal sequence of events.
If this is some type of master plan I think those behind it must be crazy.
But given they are drug addicted devils it doesnt surprise me.
I believe some elements inside the Empire of Lies regime wants to have a first strike nuclear war vs the Eurasian powers. I think they believe that they have enough first strike capability and missile defense systems ready in Europe and the Pacific Islands to intercept most of the second strike nukes coming from China and Russia to be able to survive.
Europe will be flattened, the Pacific nations will be flattened, Asia will be flattened, the Middle East will be flattened, and the Americas will be left in partial ruins. They will rule over a dystopian “Panem” style system afterwards like in the Hunger Games while continuing to harvest Africa for resources and slave labor.
I believe this is the outcome that some elements in the regime of the Empire of Lies want based on what they’ve been saying and doing.
The “Mighty Wurlitzer” is a powerful and awesome tool of soft power that can’t be easily thwarted. The Russians didn’t even try to compete because they knew they couldn’t. When one considers the number of English speakers in the world compared to the number of Russian speakers, it’s clear that on every metric US and Western propaganda, which is a highly refined art in the West, holds all the cards.
Canada seriously propagandized their public and the US public during the Truckers protest with one guy carrying a Swastika flag one time. So how could they could do that? Because the might Wurlitzer delivered it everywhere all the time. So I’m not sure that Godwin’s law is the actual correct analysis of the problem.
One would have to sell his immortal soul to compete with the Mighty Wurlitzer!
The collective west purposely choses to ignore the Ukrainian nazi connection because they are totally Nazi-fied. Russia will never win the PR war in the west in our life time. As Bob Dylan once said, ‘The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind.’
Ramin thinks too much! The seed that was planted by the McCarthyists germinated and has finally born its fruit. We in the West could not see what tree we had been nurturing until it blossomed: it is Naziism. Everything is clear now that Putin has made his declaration upon them and we are all to join with Russia in his clear objective. We must call it what it is and with this understanding we may combat its influence with understanding. The answer to the problems of a souLless Society is NOT a more fully refined mechanism (fASCISM), but courageous SouL-searching, IIInspiration and resolve.
The thing to remember in this is that key people in the west are informed and know whats going on and they can do an lot of damaged internally in the west.
PR to the brainless masses is not the required thing and fooling them does not win the PR war.
They, in the scheme of things, don’t really matter – as they always act like sheep.
For example, middle and low level military personnel or contractors can easily sabotage things.
And they know whats happening and don’t trust those at the top.
This is one main reason why the Bohemian Corporal lost in 1945.
It wont be long before those western forces secretly on the ground in UKN turn on their commanders.
Sorry mate… your are wrong… people know exactly what NAZIs are then and now.
The Russians see this conflict in its true form. WW2 never ended for Russia. Hitler and the nazis were only a front for globalist capital to destroy the USSR. The bonus of WW2 was the self-immolation of Germany and the subsequent turning of Western Europe into vassals of the United States.
Operation Barbarossa did not end with the fall of Berlin – it is being fought today across eastern Ukraine.
I just hope the Russians push all the way to the Polish and Romanian borders and incorporate Ukraine into the Russian Federation. I believe the Russians are playing for keeps.
As for PR – it is just that – the presstitutes of the MSM are running cover for the hapless western politicos obvious aggrandizing of a second rate actor stooge passing off as the president of Ukraine.
Not en Latinoamerica my friend. And we are MANY MILLIONS !!
NaLi isn’t a proper naming, as the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) was never called NaSo.
The Z in Nazi is used because Nation (spoken naˈʦi̯oːn) can’t be shortened to Nati (spoken na’ti), and the letter Z is spoken ts (all phonetic examples in German). Nazi has only sense when used in German.
Nazi in most other languages is actually used improperly, as Nati could be eventually a shorting for National.
Nazi, initially a derogatory term with no relation to the NSDAP, was used by opponents, and never by the party itself (there is an early exception by Goebbels: Nazi-Sozi, but quickly abandoned).
Some very important points. Particularly about Putin’s dilemma as to where to go from here. Someone should hand him a copy of Lenin’s Imperialism. Among Lenin’s major points: 1) imperialism is at the core of capitalism – the need to expand and conquer other people’s, territories, markets, labor and resources; 2) the rest of the world has two choices – if they want to be part of the capitalist system they will succeed – as vassal states and economies. If they don’t want this they must curtail the power of the national capitalist class because this group will inevitably side with international capital rather than the needs of their own country.
Putin is so enamored of capitalism that this may be his (and Russia’s?) downfall. He seems to have no understanding of the nature of imperialism and why it keeps doing what it does.
Russia’s failure in the information war goes far beyond the issue of Nazis. They simply don’t seem to understand that this front even exists. They can develop all the hypersonic missiles they want but this wont save them if they’re losing the war for the hearts and minds of their own people, just as all the MIRV ICBM’s and tanks didn’t save the Soviet Union from a total mental and ideological collapse.
Not that many in the West are aware of the ethnic/religious commonality between the neocons in the US and the government in Ukraine but learning that it is having Ukrainian Jewish forebears makes the use of the word ‘nazi’ to describe the State Department’s junta in Kiev as confusing to say the least.
The West has become almost irrelevant (the USA very soon shall decline into a local power like Canada). So, Russia’s “PR disaster in the West” is nothing.
As for Russia, it is now fighting for freedom and liberation of all Eurasia (from Western Europe in the west to Japan in the east) from the yoke of the Empire of Lies (Israel, England and the USA).
And major Russia’s allies in this war are Iran, China, and India.
All Russians understand very well that they are fighting against Nazis. And if the West doesn’t understand it yet – it is irrelevant, for they shall be losers in this war, and after their defeat they will start learning history from the point of view of Russia…
On political and economic structure of the Russian Federation
First of all it should be understood that today the ruling elite of Russia mainly consists of officers from special services (KGB, FSB, SVR, GRU, and etc.). They are all well-educated, courageous and smart patriots of Russia.
Secondly, the Russian society mainly consists of owners of small parcels of land (gardens/dachas usually organized in cooperatives), there is no such phenomenon anywhere else (in any other country only wealthy people can be land owners). And these common Russian people provide (grow) for their families almost all basic necessary food (vegetables, fruit, berries, and etc.).
This combination of officers from secret intelligence services in the upper (ruling) echelon of Russia and land owners in the lower (ruled) echelon of Russia has created a mixture that is unknown in the history of the humankind. In my opinion, this mixture of clever and brave patriots in the elite and free cottagers in the people is the main reason of Russia’s rebirth…
It would be a false assumption to think that Russia is “following the Iranian road”, for Iran’s ruling elite consists of mullahs and majority of Iran’s people are not land owners.
My father was a Yugoslav partisan which ended up three years in Buchenwald. I grew up with a father which told me the horrors of Nazism always with tears in his eyes and a voice in deep pain.
I have a clear understanding of what Nazism is and in contrast the heroic symbolism of Russia’s army crashing this evil with 20 Million plus martyrs.
Take a German, which possibly grew up with a father which served in the Nazi army, not necessary an evil SS, his idea is mixed up with all kinds of mistaken/confusing views (Germany fighting a Russian invader, the destruction of Germany after WWII, the partition of Germany, etc).
Add to it 40 years of anti-communist American sponsored brain washing (which entails Russophobia, Sinophobia, etc).
From my point of view Nazism was always anti-Slavic in its core (Racist).
It is pointless to argue with people, Germans / French / English, which believe to be superior or believe to be placed in the right moral corner of history.
Russia understood this and sees no point in trying to convince people which deep inside are consciously racists.
For them wars do not matter (as in Yugoslavia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya,Syria, Palestine, etc.) because it is far away and the victims are seen exotic, foreign and not-them.
Cheers from France.
Let me add:
Western propaganda strategy is based on this two very narrow frameworks:
1. Big nation invades small helpless nation. (Disallowing any historical/political context of this crisis)
2. Using the European fear, prejudices and racism towards Russia in full.
It will require a systemic shock to convince Europeans that something is wrong on their implanted views.
I highly recommend you learn economics before you make bold statements such as
“The combination of ultra-nationalists and ultra-liberals who have overthrown the Ukrainian government is indicative of a new type of political party in the region: National Liberals, or ‘Nalis’. They are to be differentiated from ‘Nazis’ – National Socialists – only by the economic ideology of liberalism (otherwise known as free-market capitalism).”
A free market is a FREE MARKET which means the scum who call themselves government are not interfering with trade. Tariffs, taxes, regulations, etc., are positive proof the market is NOT FREE. The rule of the free marker is “high bid wins”. Capitalism means I can put my goods or services up for sale and if I have judged the market wisely, i.e., I make what people want, I earn a living with more or less profit. I either beat competitors on price, quality, or advertising or I have to find another product to sell to make a living. My life, at eight or ten hours a day five or six days a week, is also a product for sale. “Crony capitalism” is not capitalism: It is collusion with the brute force of government to defeat competition.
Buyers control the market. They have money. Money is the most marketable commodity: it is whatever will buy goods and services anywhere in the world. Buyers sell their money to get the goods and services they want or can afford. That is capitalism. It is as heartless as the people who are capitalists: Christianity is capitalism. Christians tithe to their congregation. Those tithes are to help those widows and orphans who are in need through the will of God and not their own neglect. Christians work with their own hands to have that which is needed, above and beyond the tithe. Need is determined at the local level, not through a blizzard of government forms, identity papers, and red tape.
Socialism, whatever flavor you want to put to it still means control of goods, services, and manufacturing by a parasite called a bureaucrat who uses the brute force of armed government parasites to inflict the will of the parasite collective on both seller and buyer. Since the scum who call themselves “government” are not really God, they cannot foresee what goods and services will be in demand much less the quality, quantity, and distribution of those. It isn’t that socialism hasn’t been properly implemented, the fact is that socialism does not work for people. In a successful system of government – God’s government – people are not separated from their own labor, their own successes and failures, their own work. When I say God, I mean Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, creator of the earth, the universe, living things, and mankind in six days who defined the day as one rotation of the earth before He created the earth. I mean the God against whom everyone in the history of the world has dishonored and disobeyed and is guilty of cosmic treason worthy of suffering the eternal burning wrath of God. Salvation from that eternal wrath cannot be bought. That keeps Christian capitalists on their toes out of gratitude for salvation from eternal damnation.
So I would really appreciate it you would quit trying to sell that dead horse called socialism is any of its forms and instead learn what actually makes a people prosperous: the right to own property and dispose of it in a free market.
removed needless statement … mod
What is unemployment ?
What causes unemployment ?
When capitalists main mission is to outsource jobs to machines and become more productive to increase their profits.
The financial crash is what you get when you remove regulations from the markets. The free marketeers always get bailed out by the state you hate so much. Privatise the profits and socialise the losses.
Foolish to believe in the free market and that there is always a list of private sector employers sat there with cheque books at the ready to employ those who have just lost their livelihoods. When there never is.
A similar technique is used to convince children in the tooth fairy.
Believe that humans are mutable between professions at the snap of a finger. Can be moved around like ignots of steel. That a car mechanic can wake up one morning and suddenly be a brain surgeon.
Capitalism has its limits and has to be contained or you end up with the banks and big corporations in charge of democracy.
Dogs bark, the caravan moves on.
“Maybe it’s worked in Russia, but a military operation in Ukraine based on “denazification” has been a total public relations disaster everywhere else. Quite simply: Russia should have known that the use of the word “Nazi” totally shuts down any discussion in the West.”
Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree more with the author.
Who gives a shit about the collective West!? Russia is not doing this to ingratiate herself with the West. Russia is doing this to eliminate mortal threat on its doorstep. Period. Anything else is just nonsense.
It is the results that count. Kill the nazi battallions, capture or liquidate the nazi leaders, remove them and their lackeys from levers of power. And fuck the West!
I’m just not sure what to do with all that brainwashed youth who have been indoctrinated since early age with racism and hatred, in many cases by their own parents! How do you bring a child or a young person back from that kind of state of mind?
There is no PR disaster. Russia knew from the beginning that the West will not listen and Russia doesn’t really care about the opinion of the West. Russia has calculated that the time has come to turn East and South and is securing its western front.
Russia is doing what must be done for all of us.
I’ll keep it short.
I am offended by the way you, Harim, treat me.
I don’t like the insinuation that I am (we are) ignorant.
I know a Nazi when I see one.
Just because you don’t doesn’t mean we’re all stupid.
This is very condescending.
And we, like you, are entitled to our own uninformed opinion.
Another puzzlement over the PR disaster is not just the hopeless presentation of the Russian case but it also that it has been ill prepared to counter the propaganda in the West. Given that back in 2019 the Military Industrial Complex think tank (the RAND Corporation) had put videos on Youtube (the RAND channel and others such as the Defense & Aerospace Report channel) discussing its proposed “Extending Russia” campaign of propaganda and economic sanctions against Russia over Ukraine the lack of a counter PR campaign is puzzling. Surely Russian intelligence should have been monitoring RAND on Youtube.
I agree that the infinite talk about Nazis and claiming that your enemy is a nazi doesn’t work.
Azov thugs are on the level of the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang, not on the level of the National Socialists who invented rocket tech and strictly refused to use biological or chemical weapons (because Hitler himself was hit by one in WW1).
The Naziflags of Ukrainian nationalists are a relic from that time when they suffered during the Bolshevik revolution and the famine in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were the only ones acknowledging it and the only ones who saw them as separate from Russians back in the day.
And not every Ukrainian soldier is part of those nationalists anyway. They make up only a minority.
And you get the same thing from the other side. Propaganda about how Putin is the next Hitler and comparisons of modern Russia to Nazi Germany are even more ridiculous.
But i also think that it doesn’t matter.
People here are following the media like sheep. It got especially obvious during CoViD.
So whatever Russia does, doesn’t matter at all. If they have nothing anti-russian to support, they just make something up.
People did believe in the Ghost of Kyiv. So i really don’t understand why you guys care so much about what the Western Media writes.
Just stop caring and whenever Western Media reports something wrong, proof it wrong and point it out multiple times, together with hypocrisy.
Why do you want to win a propaganda war in the West anyway? Our governments don’t care what the ordinary people think anyway.
The ideology of the Ukrainian state is Ukrainian ultranationalism. Ukrainian ultranationalism is fascism at the very least, and at times it is Nazi, but it is Nazi more in the “kill the Russians” sense than in a “kill the Jews” sense.
Winning the PR battle is a minor thing. Good to have,but can do without.
It is necessary for the West to win the PR war because that is the basis on which political support and consensus is built.
For Russia, it matters little. Except to those in Russia who depend on the West’s validation for meaning in their life.
What is happening in Ukraine is a microcosm and reflection of what is happening to the West.
Sit back and enjoy.
There is no PR in that neither was intended to be PR to win the “hearts and minds” of anyone. It’s just a cold pure fact that Ukraine is ridden by neo-nazis. I live in the west, have encountered Ukrainians and can attest to that. And they will end up exactly as their nazi predecesors did – as a fertilizer of russian steppes or in Gulag.
Those who can think already know what the gig is. Zioanglo supremists in the west must destroy Russia as a prerequisite to having their unipolar fascist world order fantasy. Nazis or pink elephants won’t help western sheeptards understand anything, there are those who understand and there are those who never will. Only Russians need to know what must be done to preserve Russia and the only thing the west needs to know is stay out of their way or get vaporized. I really hope I’m wrong but if the remainder of the west is as stupid as the Poles it looks to me like vaporization is where we are all headed. As Putin says there can be no world without Russia in it, it’s just that simple.
Putin was wise to call a spade a spade. Anything less would be capitulation to the west’s game of changing the meaning of words, and a softening of the harsh reality. Perception management must take a back seat to substance and reality. The name Nazi is not hyperbole, it is a fact.
Let facts guide the choice of language and rhetoric, not the adjustment of language to avoid the surface appearance of hyperbole for sake of winning the popular opinion of the ignorant masses. As soon as you start crafting words to make them more “believable“ to the less-well informed, you have capitulated to the wordsmith’s rules, and the contents is compromised accordingly. The people who matter don’t need to be spoon-fed a bunch of pre-processed fluff to get the nature of the reality.
I completely disagree with the author – the russians didn’t went in Ukraine to do PR, they went there to exterminate the UkroNazis, they clearly stated their goals – demilitarization and denazification, and the way the russians thinks this means extermination, not mind games.
Making russian efforts to look good to the western public was never one of their goals – botching the situation on the battlefield but winning in the massmedia – that’s american’s trademark. The russians do the opposite – they slowly and patiently achieve their objectives and don’t care at all how the MSMs would portray them. Anyone who believes that PR efforts (especially directed towards western populace) are as important or even more important than the actual batlle – he simply doesn’t understand how the russian mind works (and would explain the complete failure of the western psyop).
Very well said, which reminds me of – for example – how people in the United States just sit in front of their television and watch a football (Rugby) match. Every time the ball stops – and believe me it stops a whole lot during the match – suddenly a TV commercial fills the screen. This is repeated hundred times till end of the game. Frankly, whoever wastes time watching trash like that must be totally out of mind and brainwashed. No amounts of the Russian PR relations could ever hope to influence people in such a state of mind.
It is Zionism talking. They love that word, it is their invention, their trademark. It is power.
Here in the West, Putin is a Nazi, nowadays the hysterical media says, all Russians are Nazis. In fact both parties claim they are fighting Nazis. USA, and Biden, is also said to be a Nazi.
Well, well, my friends, who benefits, when we are all Nazis? Do I have to spell it?
This war between White People is a Zionist War. They have a win-win-win-situation. Now we here in The West strongly believe that we “must suffer”, because of Nazi Russia. We must have supr inflation, we must have Energy Crisis, we must have Famine and all suffering straight out from Zionist Hell. Of course we must, we are Nazis.
Ukraine is a Nazi Country, of course, is it not? So it is all and well that the Nazi’s suffer. Who cares is the Leader a Zionist or not? Nobody, as this is a Zionist Win.
Russia must suffer, because it is now, as long as it suits Zionist Media, The Nazi.
Are there people, who are genuinely not Nazis? Well, that is the question.
Ask your local Zionist, he will tell you.
Your comment is quite intriguing.
There is a huge difference between how westerners use the term ‘nazi’ and President Putin’s use of the term. In the former it is a slur, misunderstood and bandied about whenever and wherever it suits; whereas in the latter it is a fact referring to specific neo-nazi elements integrated into the military and government of Ukraine and flourishing since the western backed coup of 2014. President Putin never used the term to describe the entire country or the people of Ukraine.
Agreed, it is a slur here, used all the time and everywhere. It is a powerful slur, people are destroyed after they have been designated as “Nazis”.
I can see your point, but I insist that it is in the interests of the Zionism to see “Nazis” everywhere, all the time. And they are winning anyway, no matter how this ends. And they will always claim that Nazis were beaten irrespective who loses, who wins. They play both sides, as usual.
“Everybody knows the game is rigged.” (Leonard Cohen)
I get you. I’m hoping that Russia is the game changer, otherwise were all screwed.
The idea that Putin is a fascist or a Nazi or that Russians or their state are fascist or Nazi is sick and perverse. Putin may be a lot of things, but a fascist and Nazi he’s not.
Here in the West, Putin is a Nazi, nowadays the hysterical media says, all Russians are Nazis. In fact both parties claim they are fighting Nazis. USA, and Biden, is also said to be a Nazi.
It is called projection. They are also calling Russia “fascist” LOL. These are “progressive” Democrats doing this. The whole US Left is pro-Ukraine and anti-Russia or neutral. All the social democrats are pro-Ukie. The left wing of the Democratic Party is pro-Ukie. They are WORSE than Republicans because of four years of “Russia lost us the war.” Jacobin, the social democratic site, is pro-Ukie. I call them THE NAZI LEFT. That is exactly what they are too. I always knew the US Left was dirty, but I never thought they were this bad. The anarchists are useless too. The ones in Russia are all traitors. The ones in Ukraine are pro-Nazi LOL. They are taking the “both sides are awful” line.
On the far Left where the Left meets the Far Right in a circle, you do find a lot of people supporting Russia.