[This interview was originally made for the Unz Review]
“I think that the American empire is very much over already, but it hasn’t been put to any sort of serious stress test yet, and so nobody realizes that this is the case”
If I had to characterize the current international situation using only one word, the word “chaos” would be a pretty decent choice (albeit not the only one). Chaos in the Ukraine, chaos in Venezuela, chaos everywhere the Empire is involved in any capacity and, of course, chaos inside the USA. But you wouldn’t know that listening to the talking heads and other “experts” who serve roughly the same function for the Empire as the orchestra did on the Titanic: to distract from the developing disaster(s) for a long as possible.
I decided to turn to the undisputed expert on social and political collapse, Dmitry Orlov whom I have always admired for his very logical, non-ideological, comparative analyses of the collapse of the USSR and the USA. The fact that his detractors have to resort to crude and, frankly, stupid ad hominems further convinces me that Dmitry’s views need to be widely shared. Dmitry very kindly agreed to reply to my questions in some detail, for which I am most grateful. I hope that you will find this interview as interesting as I did.
The Saker: How would you assess the current situation in the Ukraine in terms of social, economic and political collapse?
Dmitry Orlov: The Ukraine has never been viable as an independent, sovereign state and so its ongoing disintegration is to be expected. The applicability of the concept of collapse is predicated on the existence of an intact, stand-alone entity capable of collapse, and with the Ukraine this is definitely not the case. Never in its history has it been able to stand alone as a stable, self-sufficient, sovereign entity. As soon as it gained independence, it just fell over. Just as the Baltics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), it had reached its peak of economic and social development just as the USSR was about to collapse, and it has been degenerating and losing population ever since. Thus, the right model for discussing it is not one of sudden collapse but of steady degeneration and decay.
The Ukraine’s territory was stuck together by the Bolsheviks—first by Lenin, then by Stalin, then by Khrushchev. It was Lenin who lumped in its eastern regions (Donetsk and Lugansk specifically) who previously were part of Russia proper. Stalin then added eastern lands, which were at various times Polish, Austro-Hungarian or Romanian. Finally, Khrushchev tossed in Russian Crimea in a move that was unconstitutional at the time, since no public referendum had been held in Crimea to decide this question as was required by the Soviet constitution.
Prior to this Bolshevik effort, “Ukraina” was not used as a proper political or geographic designation. The territory was considered part of Russia, distinguished from the rest by a prefix “Malo-” (small) and called “Malorossiya. The word “ukraina” is simply an archaic form of the Russian word “okraina” (outskirts, border land). This is why the definite article “the” is required: the Ukraine is literally “the outskirts of Russia.” The Soviets endowed this border land with a make-believe identity and forced many of its inhabitants to officially deckare their ethnicity as “Ukrainian” in a successful bid to gain an additional seat a the UN.
This political concoction was supposedly held together by a Ukrainian ethnic identity, which is itself a concoction. The Ukrainian language is some combination of southern Russian village dialects with a bit of Polish thrown in as flavoring. It has a lilt to it that Russians find enchanting, making it well suited for folk songs. But it never had much practical merit, and the working language of the Ukrainians was always Russian. Even today Ukrainian nationalists switch to Russian if the subject matter is demanding enough. Religiously, most of the population has been for many centuries and still is Russian Orthodox.
In my conversations about the Ukraine with many Ukrainians over the years I discovered a shocking truth: unlike the Russians, the Ukrainians seem to have exactly zero ethnic solidarity. What binds them together is their commonality of historical experience as part of the Russian Empire, then the USSR, but this historical legacy is being actively erased. After the Soviet collapse and Ukrainian independence there followed a campaign to de-Sovietize and de-Russianize the Ukraine, deprecating this common historical legacy and replacing it with a synthetic Ukrainian identity based on a falsified history that is alien to most of the population. This fake history lionizes Nazi collaborators and attempts to rub out entirely all memory of the Ukraine’s once very active role in the larger Russian world.
Thus we have a mostly Russian-speaking, historically mostly Russian territory where most of the people speak either Russian (some of them with an accent) or a sort of Ukrainian patois called Surzhik, which is Ukrainian-sounding but with mostly Russian words (the overlap between the two languages is so great that it is difficult to draw the line between them). Supposedly proper Ukrainian is spoken in the west of the country, which had never been part of the Russian Empire, but it’s a dialect that is mostly unintelligible in the rest of the country.
In spite of this confused linguistic situation, Ukrainian was imposed as the language of instruction throughout the country. Lack of textbooks in Ukrainian and lack of teachers qualified to teach in Ukrainian caused the quality of public education to plummet, giving rise to several generations of Ukrainians who don’t really know Ukrainian, have had little formal instruction in Russian, and speak a sort of informal half-language. More recently, laws have been passed that severely restrict the use of Russian. For example, people who have never spoken a word of Ukrainian are now forced to use it in order to shop or to obtain government services.
The artificial, synthetic Ukrainian identity is too thin to give the country a sense of self or a sense of direction. It is a purely negative identity: Ukraine is that which is not Russia. The resulting hole in public consciousness was plugged by making a cargo cult of European integration: it was announced that the Ukraine was leaving the Russian world behind and joining the European Union and NATO. Most recently the intent to join the EU and NATO was written directly into the Ukrainian constitution. In the meantime, it has become abundantly clear that neither EU nor NATO membership is the least bit likely, or necessary: the EU got everything it wanted from the Ukraine by forcing it to sign the Association Agreement while giving nothing of value in return; and Ukrainian territory already serves as a playground for NATO training exercises.
Thus, with regard to social collapse, there really isn’t much to discuss, because the term “Ukrainian society” has very little basis in reality. If we drop the conceit that the Ukraine is a country that can be viable if separated from Russia, what can we say about its chances as part of a Greater Russia?
Here I have to digress to explain the difference between a proper empire and the USSR. A proper empire functions as a wealth pump that sucks wealth out of its imperial possessions, be they overseas, as in the case of the British Empire, or part of the periphery, as in the case of the Russian Empire. The latter inherited the traditions of the Mongol Empire that predated it. The Mongol term “tamga” was often used to indicate the annual tribute to be collected from newly conquered tribes as the Russian Empire expanded east. (Many of these tribes were previously Mongol subjects who understood the meaning of the term.)
Here is the key point: the USSR was not a normal empire at all. Instead of functioning as a wealth pump that pumped wealth from the periphery to the imperial center, it functioned as a revolutionary incubator, exploiting the resources of the core (Russia) and exporting them to the periphery to build socialism, with the further goal of fomenting global communist revolution. The various ethnic groups that were grossly overrepresented among the Bolsheviks were all from the periphery—the Jewish Pale, Byelorussia, the Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics—and they thought nothing of sacrificing Mother Russia on the altar of world revolution.
Their revolutionary zeal was hindered by its utter lack of practical merit. As this came to be recognized, Leon Trotsky—the great exponent of world revolution—was first exiled, then assassinated. Later, when it became clear that without appealing to Russian patriotic sentiments the task of prevailing against Nazi Germany was unlikely to succeed, Stalin brought back the Russian Orthodox Church and made other efforts toward the restoration of Russian ethnic identity that were previously decried as retrograde and chauvinistic. There were significant setbacks to this process as well: in the 1940s a group of communist leaders from Leningrad attempted to promote Russian interests through regional cooperation. They were purged and suffered political repression in what became known as the “Leningrad affair.”
Luckily, the idea of Russia as a disposable staging ground for world communist revolution was never fully implemented. However, the tendency to exploit Russia for the benefit of its Soviet periphery remained intact. The USSR’s most significant leaders—Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev—were not Russian; Stalin was a Georgian while the latter two were Ukrainian. All the other Soviet republics had their own communist party organizations that developed cadres to send to Moscow, while Russia itself lacked such an organization. The inevitable result was that most of the other Soviet republics were able to suck resources out of Russia, making them far more prosperous than Russia itself.
Thus, the image of the USSR as a typical empire is simply wrong. The right mental image of the USSR is that of a prostrate, emaciated sow (Russia) being suckled by 14 fat, greedy piglets (the other Soviet Socialist Republics). For all his numerous failings, Boris Yeltsin did one thing right: he dismantled the USSR (although the way he went about it was beyond incompetent and verged on treason).
If you are in need of an explanation for why Russia is now resurgent, increasingly prosperous and able to invest vast sums in hypersonic weapons systems and in modernized infrastructure for its people, this is it: the 14 piglets had been sent off to root for themselves. This bit of perspective, by the way, puts paid to the rank idiocy of Zbigniew Brzezinski’s “Grand Chessboard”: his theory that Russia wants to be an empire but cannot do so without the Ukraine shatters on contact with the realization that Russia hasn’t been an empire for over a century now and has no need or desire to become one again.
In any case, these days empires are a bit retro, you know, and not at all useful except as a way for silly Americans to finish bankrupting themselves. Russia needs reliable trading partners who can pay their own way, not ungrateful dependents clamoring for handouts. Just bringing Crimea up to Russia’s contemporary standards after 30 years of Ukrainian neglect has turned out to be a monumental task; as far as doing that for the rest of the Ukraine—forget it!
So, armed with this perspective, what can we say about the Ukraine from the contemporary Russian perspective?
First and foremost, it is a freak show, as attested by the content of Russian talk shows on which Ukrainian experts appear as clownish, indestructible cartoon characters: whenever their risible arguments on behalf of the Ukraine blow up in their faces, for a moment they stand there charred and furious, then brush themselves off and appear in the next segment fresh as daisies. This freak show has certain didactic merit: it helps the Russian body politic develop powerful antibodies against Western hypocrisy, because it was Western meddling that has made contemporary Ukraine into the horrible mess it is. But this was, in a sense, inevitable: deprived of the Soviet teat, the Ukraine has been attempting to suckle up to the US and EU for 30 years now and, failing that, has been carving up and roasting its own loins.
Second, the Ukraine is a rich source of immigrants, having lost around a third of its population since independence. Much of its population qualifies as Russian: linguistically, culturally and religiously they are perfectly compatible with the Russian population. Ukrainians are already the third most populous ethnic group within Russia (after Russians and Tatars) and Russia has been able to absorb the Ukrainians that have been fleeing to Russia in recent years. As the Ukraine’s population dwindles, a natural sorting-out is taking place. Those who are most compatible with the Russian world tend to move to Russia while the rest go to Poland and other EU countries.
Lastly, there is a significant amount of fatigue in Russia with the Ukrainian subject. It is currently a major topic of discussion because of the farcical presidential elections currently taking place there, but more and more one hears the question: “Must we continue talking about this?” There just isn’t anything positive to say about the Ukraine, and people tend to just shake their heads and switch to another channel. Thus, the final element of the Russian perspective on the Ukraine is that it’s painful to look at and they would rather go look at something else.
However, this is not to be. For ample historical reasons, Russia remains the Ukraine’s largest trade partner. Russian and Ukrainian economies were conceived of as a unit, based on the same set of plans, standards and regulations. In spite of concerted politically motivated efforts by Ukrainian leaders to sever these links, many of them have stubbornly remained in place, for lack of alternatives. Meanwhile, the Ukraine makes very little that the European Union or the rest of the world would want, and very little of it complies with EU’s voluminous standards and regulations. Specifically, the EU has no use at all for Ukrainian manufactured goods, and primarily sees the Ukraine as a source of cheap raw materials and labor.
It is Russia that supplies the nuclear fuel for the Ukraine’s aging nuclear power plants which provide well over half of all the electricity there, while Russian coal (anthracite, specifically) supplies much of the rest. But, for political reasons, Ukrainian officials are loath to admit the fact that the umbilical cord that connects the Ukraine to Russia cannot be severed. For example, they do not buy Russian natural gas directly but through intermediaries in the EU and at a mark-up (part of which they pocket). On paper, the Ukraine imports gas from the EU; physically, the methane molecules piped in from Russia never leave Ukrainian territory; they are simply diverted for local use.
By the time the USSR collapsed, the Ukraine was its most highly developed and possibly its richest part, and some people expected that, having thrown off the Soviet yoke, its future would be too bright to look at without goggles. It had abundant natural resources (fertile land, coal) and an educated labor force. It manufactured numerous high-tech products such as jet aircraft, marine diesels, helicopter engines, rocket engines and much else that was the best in the world. Instead, what has occurred is several decades of thievery, stagnation and decay. By now the Ukraine has lost most of its industry and the Soviet-era infrastructure has decayed to the point where much of it is worn out and on the verge of collapse. Industry has shut down and the specialists it once employed have either retired or have gone off to work in Russia, in the EU or in the US. (Some Ukrainian rocket scientists have apparently gone off to work in North Korea, and this explains the DPRK’s recent stunning successes in rocketry as well as its unlikely, exotic choice of rocket fuel: unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine.)
The Saker: What about the Donbas republics? How would you compare the situation in Novorussia with what is taking place in the Ukraine?
Dmitry Orlov: The term “Novorossiya” (New Russia) goes back several centuries, to the time Catherine the Great expanded the Russian Empire to include Crimea and other southern possessions. What Lenin reassigned to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic were Russian lands, Donetsk and Lugansk regions among them.
There are several other Ukrainian regions that are almost entirely Russian—Kharkov and Odessa specifically—but Donetsk and Lugansk are not Ukrainian in the least. This is why, after the government overthrow of 2014, when it became clear that the intentions of the Ukrainian nationalists who seized power in Kiev were to oppress the Russian part of the population, these two regions decided to strike out on their own. The Ukrainian nationalists reacted by launching a civil war, which started exactly five years ago, and which they have lost. To save face, they have declared their defeat the result of a “Russian invasion” but have been unable to present any evidence of it. Had the Russians invaded, the result would have been a replay of Russia’s action in Georgia in August of 2008, which lasted about a week.
The Ukrainians are continuing to lob missiles into the territories of Donetsk and Lugansk, causing sporadic civilian casualties. Once in a while they stage minor skirmishes, suffer casualties and pull back. But mostly their “Anti-Terrorist Operation,” which is what they are calling this civil war, has turned into a propaganda initiative, with the mythical “Russian invaders” invoked at every turn to explain their otherwise inexplicable string of defeats.
After some amount of effort by NATO instructors to train the Ukrainians, the instructors gave up. The Ukrainians simply laughed in their faces because it was clear to them that the instructors did not know how to fight at all. It was then decided that the “road map” for Ukraine’s inclusion in NATO should be set aside because the Ukrainians are just too crazy for sedate and sedentary NATO. The trainers were then replaced with CIA types who simply collected intelligence on how to fight a high-intensity ground war without air support—something that no NATO force would ever consider doing. Under such conditions NATO forces would automatically retreat or, failing that, surrender.
Meanwhile, the two eastern regions, which are highly developed economically and have a lot of industry, have been integrating ever more closely into the Russian economy. Their universities and institutes are now fully accredited within the Russian system of higher education, their currency is the ruble, and although in terms of international recognition they remain part of the Ukraine, it is very important to note that the Ukraine does not treat them as such.
The Ukrainian government does not treat the citizens of Donetsk and Lugansk as its citizens: it does not pay their pensions, it does not recognize their right to vote and it does not provide them with passports. It lays claim to the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk but not to the people who reside there. Now, genocide and ethnic cleansing are generally frowned upon by the international community, but an exception is being made in this case because of Russophobia: the Russian people living in Donetsk and Lugansk have been labeled as “pro-Russian” and are therefore legitimate targets.
Russia has been resisting calls to grant official recognition to these two People’s Republics or to provide overt military support (weapons and volunteers do filter through from the Russian side without any hindrance, although the flow of volunteers has been slowing down of late). From a purely cynical perspective, this little war is useful for Russia. If in the future the Ukraine fails completely and fractures into pieces, as appears likely, and if some of these pieces (which might theoretically include not just Donetsk and Lugansk regions but also Kharkov, Odessa and Dnepropetrovsk) clamor to join Russia, then Russia would face a serious problem.
You see, over the past 30 years most Ukrainians have been content to sit around drinking beer and watching television as their country got looted. They saw no problem with going out to demonstrate and protest provided they were paid to do it. They voted the way they were paid to vote. They didn’t take an issue with Ukrainian industry shutting down as long as they could work abroad and send money back. They aren’t enraged or even embarrassed by the fact that their country is pretty much run from the US embassy in Kiev. About the only ones with any passion among them are the Nazis who march around with torches and sport Nazi insignia. In short, these aren’t the sort of people that any self-respecting country would want to have anything to do with, never mind absorb them into its population en masse, because the effect would be to demoralize its entire population.
But the people of Donetsk and Lugansk are not like that at all. These coal miners, factory workers and cab drivers have been spending days and nights in the trenches for years now, holding back one of Europe’s larger militaries, and fighting for every square meter of their soil. If the Ukraine is ever to be reborn as something that Russia would find acceptable, it is these people who can provide the starter culture. They have to win, and they have to win without any help from the Russian military, which can squash the Ukrainian military like a bug, but what would be the point of doing that? Thus, Russia provides humanitarian aid, business opportunities, some weapons and some volunteers, and bides its time, because creating a viable new Ukraine out of a defunct one is a process that will take considerable time.
The Saker: What is your take on the first round of Presidential elections in the Ukraine?
Dmitry Orlov: The first round of the elections was an outright fraud. The object of the exercise was to somehow allow president Poroshenko to make it into the second round. This was done by falsifying as many votes as was necessary. In a significant number of precincts the turnout was exactly 100% instead of the usual 60% or so and counted votes from people who had moved, died or emigrated. All of these fake votes went to Poroshenko, allowing him to slither through to the second round.
Now the fight is between Poroshenko and a comedian named Vladimir Zelensky. The only difference between Poroshenko and Zelensky, or any of the other 30+ people who appeared on the ballot, is that Poroshenko has already stolen his billions while his contestants have not had a chance to do so yet, the only reason to run for president, or any elected office, in the Ukraine, being to put oneself in a position to do some major thieving.
Thus, there is an objective reason to prefer Zelensky over Poroshenko, which is that Poroshenko is a major thief while Zelensky isn’t one yet, but it must be understood that this difference will begin to equalize the moment after Zelensky’s inauguration. In fact, the elites in Kiev are currently all aquiver over their ingenious plan to sell off all of Ukraine’s land to foreign investors (no doubt pocketing a hefty “fee”).
The platforms of all the 30+ candidates were identical, but this makes no difference in a country that has surrendered its sovereignty. In terms of foreign relations and strategic considerations, the Ukraine is run from the US embassy in Kiev. In terms of its internal functioning, the main prerogative of everyone in power, the president included, is thievery. Their idea is to get their cut and flee the country before the whole thing blows up.
It remains to be seen whether the second round of elections will also be an outright fraud and what happens as a result. There are many alternatives, but none of them resemble any sort of exercise in democracy. To be sure, what is meant by “democracy” in this case is simply the ability to execute orders issued from Washington; inability to do so would make Ukraine an “authoritarian regime” or a “dictatorship” and subject to “regime change.” But short of that, nothing matters.
The machinations of Ukraine’s “democrats” are about as interesting to me as the sex lives of sewer rats, but for the sake of completeness, let me flowchart it out for you. Poroshenko got into second round by outright fraud, because the loss of this election would, within the Ukrainian political food chain, instantly convert him from predator to prey. However, he was none too subtle about it, there is ample proof of his cheating, and the contender he squeezed out—Yulia Timoshenko—could theoretically contest the result in court and win. This would invalidate the entire election and leave Poroshenko in charge until the next one. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Another option would be for Poroshenko to cheat his way past the second round (in an even more heavy-handed manner, since this time he is behind by over 30%), in which case Zelensky could theoretically contest the result in court in win. This would invalidate the entire election and leave Poroshenko in charge until the next one. Lather, rinse, repeat. Are you excited yet?
None of this matters, because we don’t know which of the two is the US State Department’s pick. Depending on which one it is, and regardless of the results of any elections or lawsuits, a giant foot will come out of the sky and stomp on the head of the other one. Of course, it will all be made to look highly democratic for the sake of appearances. The leadership of the EU will oblige with some golf claps while choking back vomit and the world will move on.
The Saker: Where is, in your opinion, the Ukraine heading? What is your best “guesstimate” of what will happen in the short-to-medium term future?
Dmitry Orlov: I believe that we will be subjected to more of the same, although some things can’t go on forever, and therefore won’t. Most worryingly, the Soviet-era nuclear power plants that currently provide most of the electricity in the Ukraine are nearing the end of their service life and there is no money to replace them. Therefore, we should expect most of the country to go dark over time. Likewise, the natural gas pipeline that currently supplies Russian gas to both the Ukraine and much of the EU is worn out and ready to be decommissioned, while new pipelines being laid across the Baltic and the Black Sea are about to replace it. After that point the Ukraine will lose access to Russian natural gas as well.
If the Ukrainians continue to surrender unconditionally while placating themselves with pipe dreams of EU/NATO membership, the country will depopulate, the land will be sold off to Western agribusiness, and it will become a sort of agricultural no man’s land guarded by NATO troops. But that sort of smooth transition may be hard for the EU and the Americans to orchestrate. The Ukraine is rather highly militarized, is awash with weapons, full of people who have been circulated through the frontlines in Donbas and know how to fight, and they may decide to put up a fight at some point. It must be remembered that the Ukrainians, in spite of the decay of the last 30 years, still have something of the Russian fighting spirit in them, and will fight like Russians—until victory or until death. NATO’s gender-ambivalent military technicians would not want to get in their way at all.
Also the dream of a depopulated Ukraine to be turned into a playground for Western agribusiness may be hindered somewhat by the fact that the Russians take a very dim view of Western GMOs and wouldn’t like to see GMO-contaminated pollen blowing across their border from the West. They would no doubt find some least-effort way to make the attempt at Western agribusiness in the Ukraine unprofitable. Orchestrating a smallish but highly publicized radiation leak from one of the ancient Ukrainian nuke plants would probably work. Rather weirdly, Westerners think nothing of poisoning themselves with glyphosphate but are deathly afraid of even a little bit of ionizing radiation.
The Saker: What about the EU and the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe? Where is the EU heading in your opinion?
Dmitry Orlov: The EU has a number of major problems. It isn’t fiscally or monetarily healthy. As a whole, or as its constituent nations, it is no longer capable of the exercise of its full sovereignty, having surrendered it to the US. But the US is no longer able to maintain control, because it is internally conflicted to the point of becoming incoherent in its pronouncements. Overall, the structure looks like a matryoshka doll. You have the US, as a sort of cracked outer shell. Inside of it is NATO, which is an occupying force across most of Europe right up to the Russian border. It would be useless against Russia, but it can pose a credible threat of violence against the occupied populations. Inside of NATO is the EU—a political talking shop plus a sprawling bureaucracy that spews forth reams upon reams of rules and regulations.
Since none of this military/political superstructure is actually structural without the key ingredient of US hegemony, we shouldn’t expect it to perform particularly well. It will continue as a talking shop while various national governments attempt to reclaim their sovereignty. British referendum voters have certainly tried to prod their government in that direction, and in response their government has been experimenting with various methods of rolling over and playing dead, but a different government might actually try to execute the will of the people. On the other hand, the governments of Hungary and Italy have made some headway in the direction of reasserting their sovereignty, with public support.
But nothing has really happened yet. Once the political elite of any nation has been thoroughly emasculated by the surrender of its national sovereignty, it takes a while for it to grow back its chest hair and to start posing a credible threat to transnational interests. Even in Russia it took close to a decade to thwart the political power and influence of the oligarchy. We can see that the empire is weakening and that some countries are starting to balk at being vassals, but nothing definitive has happened yet.
What may speed things up is that Europe, along with the US, appear to be heading into a recession/depression. One effect of that will be that all the East European guest workers working in the west will be forced to head back home. Another will be that EU’s subsidies to its recent eastern acquisitions—Poland and the Baltics especially—are likely to be reduced substantially or to go away altogether. The influx of returning economic migrants combined with the lack of financial support are likely to spell the demise of certain national elites which have been feasting on Western largesse in return for a bit of Russophobia.
We can imagine that this swirling tide of humanity, ejected from Western Europe, will head east, slosh against the Great Wall of Russia, and flood back into the west, but now armed with Ukrainian weapons and knowhow and entertaining thoughts of plunder rather than employment. There they will fight it out with newcomers from Middle East and Africa while the natives take to their beds, hope for the best and think good thoughts about gender neutrality and other such worthy causes.
These old European nations are all aging out, not just in terms of demographics but in terms of the maximum age allotted by nature to any given ethnos. Ethnoi (plural of “ethnos”) generally only last about a thousand years, and at the end of their lifecycle they tend to exhibit certain telltale trends: they stop breeding well and they become sexually depraved and generally decadent in their tastes. These trends are on full display already. Here’s a particularly absurd example: French birth certificates no longer contain entries for father and mother but for parent1 and parent2. Perhaps the invading barbarians will see this and die laughing; but what if they don’t?
No longer able to put up much of a fight, such depleted ethnoi tend to be easily overrun by barbarians, at which point they beg for mercy. In turn, based on the example of the late Roman Empire as well as similar ones from Chinese and Persian history, granting them mercy is one of the worst mistakes a barbarian can make: the result is a bunch of sexually depraved and generally decadent barbarians… to be easily overrun and slaughtered by the next bunch of barbarians to happen along.
What will spark the next round of Western European ethnogenesis is impossible to predict, but we can be sure that at some point a mutant strain of zealots will arrive on the scene, with a dampened instinct for self-preservation but an unslakable thirst for mayhem, glory and death, and then it will be off to the races again.
The Saker: What will happen once Nord Stream II is finished? Where is Europe heading next, especially in its relationship with the USA and Russia?
Dmitry Orlov: The new pipelines under the Baltic and the Black Sea will be completed, along with the second LNG installation at Sabetta, and Russia will go on supplying natural gas to Europe and Asia. I suspect that the fracking extravaganza in the US is entering its end game and that the dream of large-scale LNG exports to Europe will never materialize.
The nations of Europe will gradually realize that its relationship with Russia is mostly beneficial while its relationship with the US is mostly harmful, and will make certain adjustments. The Ukraine, its natural gas pipeline system decrepit and beyond repair, will continue to import natural gas from Europe, only now the methane molecules will actually flow to it from the west rather from the east.
The Saker: How do you see the political climate in Russia? I hear very often that while Putin personally and the Kremlin’s foreign policy enjoy a great deal of support, the pension reform really hurt Putin and that there is now an internal “patriotic opposition” (as opposed to paid and purchased for by the CIA & Co,. which is becoming more vocal. Is that true?
It is true that there isn’t much debate within Russia about foreign policy. Putin’s popularity has waned somewhat, although he is still far more popular than any national leader in the West. The pension reform did hurt him somewhat, but he recovered by pushing through a raft of measures designed to ease the transition. In particular, all the benefits currently enjoyed by retirees, such as reduced public transit fees and reduced property taxes, will be extended to those nearing retirement age.
It is becoming clear that Putin, although he is still very active in both domestic and international politics, is coasting toward retirement. His major thrust in domestic politics seems to be in maintaining very strict discipline within the government in pushing through his list of priorities. How he intends to effect the transition to the post-Putin era remains a mystery, but what recently took place in Kazakhstan may offer some clues. If so, we should expect a strong emphasis on continuity, with Putin maintaining some measure of control over national politics as a senior statesman.
But by far the most significant change in Russian politics is that a new generation of regional leaders has been put into place. A great many governorships have been granted to ambitious young managers with potential for national office. They are of a new breed of thoroughly professional career politicians with up-to-date managerial skills. Meanwhile, a thorough cleaning out of the ranks has taken place, with some high-ranking officials doing jail time for corruption. What’s particularly notable is that some of these new regional leaders are now as popular or more popular than Putin. The curse of gerontocracy, which doomed the Soviet experiment, and which now afflicts the establishment in the US, no longer threatens Russia.
The Saker: You recently wrote an article titled “Is the USS Ship of Fools Taking on Water?” in which you discuss the high level of stupidity in modern US politics? I have a simple question for you: do you think the Empire can survive Trump and, if so, for how long?
Dmitry Orlov: I think that the American empire is very much over already, but it hasn’t been put to any sort of serious stress test yet, and so nobody realizes that this is the case. Some event will come along which will leave the power center utterly humiliated and unable to countenance this humiliation and make adjustments. Things will go downhill from there as everyone in government in media does their best to pretend that the problem doesn’t exist. My hope is that the US military personnel currently scattered throughout the planet will not be simply abandoned once the money runs out, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if that is what happens.
The Saker: Lastly, a similar but fundamentally different question: can the USA (as opposed to the Empire) survive Trump and, if so, how? Will there be a civil war? A military coup? Insurrection? Strikes? A US version of the Yellow Vests?
Dmitry Orlov: The USA, as some set of institutions that serves the interests of some dwindling number of people, is likely to continue functioning for quite some time. The question is: who is going to be included and who isn’t? There is little doubt that retirees, as a category, have nothing to look forward to from the USA: their retirements, whether public or private, have already been spent. There is little doubt that young people, who have already been bled dry by poor job prospects and ridiculous student loans, have nothing to look forward to either.
But, as I’ve said before, the USA isn’t so much a country as a country club. Membership has its privileges, and members don’t care at all what life is like for those who are in the country but aren’t members of the club. The recent initiatives to let everyone in and to let non-citizens vote amply demonstrates that US citizenship, by itself, counts for absolutely nothing. The only birthright of a US citizen is to live as a bum on the street, surrounded by other bums, many of them foreigners from what Trump has termed “shithole countries.”
It will be interesting to see how public and government workers, as a group, react to the realization that the retirements they have been promised no longer exist; perhaps that will tip the entire system into a defunct state. And once the fracking bubble is over and another third of the population finds that it can no longer afford to drive, that might force through some sort of reset as well. But then the entire system of militarized police is designed to crush any sort of rebellion, and most people know that. Given the choice between certain death and just sitting on the sidewalk doing drugs, most people will choose the latter.
And so, Trump or no Trump, we are going to have more of the same: shiny young IT specialists skipping and whistling on the way to work past piles of human near-corpses and their excrement; Botoxed housewives shopping for fake organic produce while hungry people in the back of the store are digging around in dumpsters; concerned citizens demanding that migrants be allowed in, then calling the cops as soon as these migrants set up tents on their front lawn or ring their doorbell and ask to use the bathroom; well-to-do older couples dreaming of bugging out to some tropical gringo compound in a mangrove swamp where they would be chopped up with machetes and fed to the fish; and all of them believing that things are great because the stock market is doing so well.
At this rate, when the end of the USA finally arrives, most of the people won’t be in a position to notice while the rest won’t be capable of absorbing that sort of upsetting information and will choose to ignore it. Everybody wants to know how the story ends, but that sort of information probably isn’t good for anyone’s sanity. The mental climate in the US is already sick enough; why should we want to make it even sicker?
The Saker: Dmitry, thank you so much for your time and for a most interesting interview!
SSSR is dead. US is dying. What to do. Answer? Not a damned thing you can do, it’s all a done deal.
However, don’t sell the American people, the real American people, short. Just about every company grade officer and mid or senior NCO I know in US has or is in process of winding things up and moving ‘home’, moving away from the intensely corrupt and hedonistic coastal areas and moving to Middle America, the towns and small cities where the values to a great extent are what I grew up with in the ’50’s. They are taking their families, wives and children, with them and going home. More than one has clearly stated to me that they have to get their children out of the ever more hedonistic ‘populated’ areas and go back to the basics. We’ll see how this works out.
As one told me just last week, come the downfall and collapse in Foggy Bottom, the very next day the petty criminals and drug dealers in ‘their’ town will be gone, a combined effort of the local citizens and cops.
We’ll see how that pans out, but it ain’t gonna be pretty either way.
Book 1, the Old Guard moves south to Sevastopol and begins the groundwork for the defense of that city for the coming troubles.
An Incident On Simonka https://saker.community/product/an-incident-on-simonka-a-novel-by-r-h-auslander-pdf-ed/ March 2014. NATO Is Invited To Leave Sevastopol, One Way Or The Other.
Never The Last One https://saker.community/product/never-the-last-one-a-novel-by-r-h-auslander-pdf-ed/ A deep look in to Russia, her culture and her Armed Forces, in essence a look at the emergence of Russian Federation
Given you own experience living in Crimea and your network of contacts throughout the Donbass, and considering the time elapsed since the evens of 2013-2014, do you think that there is any viable chance that regions such as Kharkov, Odessa and Dnepropetrovsk would seek to join Donetsk and Lugansk in forging a new state? Or perhaps taking things even further, perhaps request a union of sorts with the Russian Federation? Apologies if you’ve been asked this all too many times already.
Orlov and the Saker suggest that the economic costs are – at least for now – too high for Moscow to consider welcoming these areas back into the fold. I am curious if there is a real and tangible desire growing amidst the populations living in these regions to break relations with Kiev, in contrast to the prevailing sense of apathy that I’ve read about over the last few years.
Thanks to the Saker and Orlov for this interview.
Glossopteris. I have no doubts that with time Novorossiya will become if not part of Russia then certainly so intertwined with Russia that to all intents and purposes it will be Russian again. Kharkov and Odessa? Not for a very long time. I think in the next two decades pretty much everything east of the Dnepr will be closely associated with Russia, culturally and economically.
The problem is the entire physical plant of Novorossiya is antiquated, it’s old, and I mean old, Soviet plant and not a thing was done to modernize since about 1980. There are exceptions to this but very few, everything in orcland was simply worked to the point of no return and repairs to keep things running were just that, minimal repairs, not modernization. Just rebuilding Krim and Sevastopol after 15 years of looting to the very ground is an enormous burden on Russia. The rest of the orc lands east of the Dnepr? Unimaginable that Russia will rebuild that.
Much appreciated, thanks for your reply Auslander. It saddens me to think that so much has been lost or neglected over the years.
Just as an aside, your candid insights into life within Crimea are very welcome. Thanks again.
Yes, you might be right that Russia would not, at least in the near future, rebuild the lands east of the river Dnieper. However, theoretically anything is possible. Russia is becoming very popular for investment. Russian and foreign investments could do the trick.
From what little I have seen of the people east of the Dneipr (from guys like Graham Phillips and Patrick Lancaster), they seem like the sort of folks who could do quite a lot of rebuilding themselves.
If they can get the Kiev kleptocrats off their backs.
Russia needs Russian population growth and there is no way it will refuse any Ukrainian or Slavic region that wants to hop on board. Its a matter of timing; when the US finds itself in a bind and has to focus on critical situations caused by things like war (Venezuela), mayhem at the southern border, stock market crash, racially motivated conflicts and riots, multiple devastating natural disasters which seem to be gaining intensity every year or a combination of these, Russia feeling that the US is exhausted will go ahead and make the move of acquiring these territories and probably along with other ones like Moldova. There will be a lot of these changes around the world when nations start having free will.
The thought of Odessa, in particular, in the hands of the Ukronazi vermin, remains sickening, particularly given the massacre that the Western fakestream media vermin refuse to acknowledge even happened.
Theoretically speaking, I am of the opinion that Russia sooner than later take over Novo-Rosiya as they do represent an important militarily opportunity. Once Kiev is cut off from the Black Sea, it’s over for Kiev. US/Nato will just walk away as there will be nothing of value for them. The key is, for Putin to either get on with the program or get out so new non-liberal president can do what needs to be done. The longer they wait the worse it will be. They should have jump on the Strielkov-wagon, he gave Russia an immense opportunity, which Putin let slip through his fingers.
Saving Sevastopol and Krimu was far more important than ‘saving’ Donbas. Besides, at the time no one knew what would really happen in Donbas, for the first three weeks Ahkmatov was still holding sway and keeping his miners and tractor drivers out of the fray with threats of never working in Donbas again. When the miners finally said ‘screw this’ and joined the opposition it was over for Ahkmetov and the orcs.
Do you remember when Strelkov was lamenting how few younger men were joining the cause in May and June of that fateful time? He was being a bit disingenuous, he was sending the younger men to training while the Afghan and Gruzya veterans held the orcs at bay. It was these younger men returning from their training who not only made but put paid to the summer cauldrons along the Russian borders and in essence destroyed the orc’s chances of ever winning. Who do you think trained those men and equipped them, the tooth fairy?
Aus. I am not trying to argue with you as the things you said did happen. As for Strielkov, he was always “dramatic”, but maybe he had no choice. His resources were scarce. Lets look at men. I remember discussing service in the military with my Norwegian friend, and I am going to quote him here “young soldiers have very limited time to live”. So, looking at the history of wars and going back to Napoleonic era, they had veterans who served 20 or so years, and they had young men who died when the first shots were fired. THe way to explain this is as follows: first of all luck (as they say whatever is written in the “book of life for you”.
Second training, training, training. Training is what gives the young men the chance to survive.
So, I understand why Strielkov sent the young ones to Russia for training. They all needed to at least go through the boot camp. His older volunteers went through military training in SU, and some if not many, like him, went through Afghanistan and Chechnya. Besides, the older guys did not care much, as they had kids already, while the young ones did not and the nation’s future needs to be protected.
Like I said, I am not arguing, just making a point.
I also understand, that few here accused him of being a foreign agent. I say to that this: if he really was, he would be rotting “six feed under” by now, or somewhere in a ditch barely covered with leafs, having his eyes plucked out by the crows. Such is the life of a military men.
Just as an add, my father’s brother’s bones were never found after the war (II).
In one of the Polish classics the author wrote a wonderful but sad thing about the end of military men “rozdziobią nas kruki, wrony – in short Crows and Wrens are going to feed on us”.
My apologies, for I used wrong translation: Wrona belongs to crow family.
while wren is a small marsh bird
“As one told me just last week, come the downfall and collapse in Foggy Bottom, the very next day the petty criminals and drug dealers in ‘their’ town will be gone, a combined effort of the local citizens and cops.”
Best way to deal with vigilantes, especially the pindo sort, is to drop “the mouth” first. This will cause the rest of the cowardly brain dead herd to soil themselves as they run away. Make sure to take out as many of the things as you can as they run off. This has a dual benefit. Their fear afterwards prevents additional outbreaks and it removes social/mental defectives from the gene pool.
Most interesting interview, indeed.
Orlov is thorough. He answers fully. No skipping over the unpleasant. He lays it bare.
For Ukraine, a very bad future.
For Russia, a good transition from Putin to young, competent managerial types.
For the EU, bad times ahead.
For the US, very bad times ahead.
Just an intelligent man’s opinion, loaded with facts, in no uncertain terms.
Very much appreciated to have Dmitry Orlov’s SitRep.
Saker drew out of him a quintessential interview.
Well done, by both.
I don’t completely agree…. or perhaps I should say, I am concerned, mostly for Russia.
Good management practices can be applied to anything, positive or negative, and Orlov points out that there seems to be a new generation of “professional” politicians developing in Russia. This worries me as such people have a way of wanting to stay in power at almost any cost, and not always considering the well being of the country. Will they have the real world experience of Putin? I don’t know. Will they be fooled by the West’s propaganda? Have to wait and see. The Russian leaders who went through WW2 had a vision and experience which you can’t buy… and this saved the world many times over. But one thing I am certain of, Russia is a greater hope for the world than is the US.
I fear that in the new liberalist oligarchic Russia they have managers (generally trained in very expensive western universities/think thank) but not statesmen and overall statesmen with an original strategic view for a national independent interest like the old USSR had. For the near future a simple copy of a normal western state (colony).
And perhaps that future is already here.
“new liberalist oligarchic Russia have managers (generally trained in very expensive western universities/think thanks)”.
If thats true, its depressing. Shiny globo-homo eyes having Europe in their heart.
It means TPTB already have a generation of brainwashed liberal narratives in key positions in Russia.
It takes a 15-20 years to build up a new generation of nationalists and defenders of their heritage, so this could easily take 50-100 years to change if ever.
Unfortunately they don’t want defenders of their heritage. They, the russian ruling class, simply wants to conform the country to the western culture and political, economical, social system. They are simply copying the liberalist West in everything. Russia has finally lost her soul with the end of USSR. Probably Mr. Putin is the transition element between the old Russia and the new Russia. After him, with the new “managers” (that have office in Moscow but brain, heart and wallet in Paris, New York or London) of the old Russia there will be nothing left.
The new manager types are trained under a programme known as “Management Personnel Pool”, run by the Graduate School of Public Administration – at the “Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration.”
More details here: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/60309
Having such a National School it is certainly a good thing especially if it is not linked and funded by Western entities. This School seems to be for administrative personnel not for the real ruling bosses. Moreover it would be interesting to know if those who attended it and those who teach there come from Western institutions or have western links.
Seconding Larchmonter. Thanks Dmitry and Andrei for this uncompromising piece of Orlovian clarity. :)
What a brilliant piece of work, an essay, in essence. Thanks to both Saker and Dmitry.
Orlov is an amazingly articulate analyst who has the supreme gift of concise statements. I remember him in 2014, on some video (could it have been Max Keiser?) with a short interview on the Maidan, and his pithy summaries then about Ukraine being chaos but having some assets worth stealing or parlaying to the west. Everything he said in almost an off-hand way proved true all the time.
And so it is now, I think, with his statements about the Ukraine. They seem off-hand or casual but actually this is just part of of his concision.
Saker we were hungry for this information about the Ukraine, and I can tell you were also. So thank you Dmitry Orlov for this updated view. A long process for Ukraine to return to Russia, and under its own steam. Decades, even. The US involvement will surely have atrophied by then.
The US was always the way Orlov describes its future. It only ever belonged to those who could keep their heads above water. You go under, and you’re gone forever, and very quickly forgotten. I don’t recommend it as a social system, but that’s the system.
But the people, within that system. the people are great people, with remarkable moral fiber, in situations they understand. Those who are breathing air and not water can rightfully enjoy the company of these others, even though many of those others might lately be breathing an air-water mixture – and perhaps even oneself.
It’s a poignant thing, these United States. The people are as good as anywhere, but only as trained as their culture tells them to be. Perhaps the future holds some spark of brightness for the people. They were always a transcendent bunch, actually, in a culture founded on spiritual independence – despite all the overlay of consumerist crap. Somehow they uniquely evolved the means of ignoring that crap – playing the TV in the background, for example, while reading college studies – in order to live decent lives.
It’s possible this long-remote karma of spiritual longing might still hold some embers. Perhaps the people of the US might rediscover the power of sincere prayer? The power of sincerity? Time alone will tell.
God bless you for the kindly description of (what once were?) the virtues of the American people. The overwhelming realization that daily hits me — and which so few commentators mention — is the universal and very effective mind control of the entire population. They live and breath in a world of inverted realities. When the civilization collapses around them, as it is doing, they do not waken from the trance and suddenly see the factual reality. They go on seeing the opposite of the truth. They will continue to see poison as good food, lethal enemies as trustworthy friends. And I mainly fear: they will never understand what has happened to them.
I recently watched alecture on you tube based on a book by professor in california. They are both entitled Duped. In it he teaches the 4 basic techniques of propaganda used by the US media. It really is a concise and important expose. Until populations understand these techniques enough to see through them, we will all have a hard row to hoe. The level of delusion and manipulation among the general public is truely astonishing. I moved abroad almost 10 years ago to raise my children in a more civilized place, and sincerely mourn my beloved land. The professor is Jerry something, the lecture can be found at brasscheck.tv, a valuable archive. Peace.
I’ve followed Orlov and the Saker for a long time. Nothing really new here … but the interview does a masterful job of asking the right questions; and the
answers are spot on.
The only thing that I’ll add, and it really isn’t much, is that Americans (for the most part) do not have the skills nor the will to be able to survive a post consumer world. Growing their own food? Locating potable water? Unlike Russia where there was a great deal of residual folk knowledge, most Americans are dumber than rocks and without a rocks resilience.
RG: “The only thing that I’ll add, and it really isn’t much, is that Americans (for the most part) do not have the skills nor the will to be able to survive a post-consumer world.”
An earlier post finds educated/well-informed and practical Americans, but those troops are being thinned out every day from US “chaos.”
Instead, as RG states, the vast majority of adult Americans are sickeningly ignorant of vast corporate greed, how the US military’s budget takes nearly 50% of the Discretionary money; nor do they realize the judicial corruption, and the extent of corporate/banking powers who OWN all state, regional, federal politicians. In essence, it’s a tragic population that will never survive their Empire’s disintegration.
Much appreciate this thorough, detailed, profound analysis of the state of the World, and where we are heading. Thank you Saker and Dmitry Orlov. This is a prime example of why this is one of the best independent sites on the web. Dmitry’s answer to the last question is interchangeable with the situation in Australia – an ever growing number of homeless; sleeping in the streets and in parks and under bridges, more and more begging, particularly in the large cities, a marked increase in people working in the gig economy, like uber eats deliveries, while the yuppies and hipsters and ladies who lunch brigade swan past the homeless in the street to go to their trendy restaurants, and organic health food ’emporiums’ to buy their Kombucha and Matcha powder, while fully ignoring those fellow human beings who have been squashed by the system. These people are not even there. I sell a homeless street magazine to survive, as it’s my only income, being a New Zealand citizen living in Australia. The amount of people who climb out of Porsche’s, BMW’s, Range Rovers, and who walk straight past, and won’t even look sideways staggers me. They refuse to even say two syllables: Hello. Gidday. Just stony silence. If anyone believes there’s no class system in Australia, they’re wrong. I experience it everyday as do many others on the streets.
I (68) moved to Cairns from Melbourne to get away from my ex after a divorce. I spent some months in a local boarding house where it costs around A$200/week to rent a room – with shared bathrooms and kitchen. The place had a good number of Australians who are in their 20’s – 40’s who have no work and are not looking for any. They spent most of their time smoking cigarettes (at A$1 each) and drinking booze. I am largely from the UK so I have no idea where they get their money from. These guys would not even take a walk to the beautiful Esplanade that is only 5 minutes away. They preferred to walk in the other direction to get fresh supplies of booze and tobacco.
Eventually, I decided that the ambiance was depressing me. I moved out and am now living temporarily in a luxury apartment on the Esplanade. I have sublet one of the bedrooms to a young Czech couple who are on a “working holiday”. Very nice people compared to the Aussie/British riff raff
I have been told that all the little towns along the Queensland coast have their quota of similar dropouts. I met one guy who was a bit more enterprising. He would work in a bar in Cairns for 6 weeks and then go Indonesia to his Indonesian wife for 6 weeks.
Very sad. So different from the image of Australia that I had until a year or two ago. In June, I am moving to Ukraine to check out the place and to possibly get a new wife. If I do, I will have to thank the Americans for messing up the place. The choice of ladies is absolutely stunning.
Alfred: greetings from… Melbourne! I had a factory job in Adelaide that got shipped to China – also known as Globalisation. These multinational corporations gotta keep the profits up for their shareholders. $$$. Moved to Melbourne 2 years ago to try and find paid work – once you’re over 50… Its bloody tough. Even applied for charity fundraising jobs. And they hired 22 year olds from the UK or Germany. Sigh. Applied for over 160 factory jobs plus Bunnings, Aldi, Coles, Car wash…. Nothing. I lived in Aussie for 9 years, from 1985 to 1994. This country was so different back then, people were so much friendlier, laid back, way more trusting – but that was before the dogma of Neoliberalism really kicked in. And then fecken Howard came along. I see a very bleak future for all of us Alfred. Dmitry nails it.
It really all began with the Right’s insane reaction to the mild social democratic reformism of Whitlam. The interference and sabotage of the Americans and the Evil bias and propaganda of Satan Murdoch’s media cancer were central to the process of sabotage, and signs of things to come. Nowadays, after the proto-Blairism of the ‘useful idiots’ Hawke and Keating (both rewarded by being made rich), the raw, racist, class-hating Evil of the sub Brownshirt grub Howard, the narcissist Rudd and the feminazi incompetent Gillard and then the real descent into The Pit with the raving life-hating, misogynist, Abbott, the hereditary parasite Turnbull and the Pentecostal thug Morrison-well it’s been quite a long day’s journey into Hell.
My remaining hope is to live long enough to see the young today, those whose lives are being deliberately destroyed by the ecocidal monsters who value the loot that can be wrung out of coal, gas and oil far more than Life on Earth (and even the lives of their own children), grow up determined and vengeful. Moves are afoot to craft laws against ecocide, and they surely must include the propagandists for the destruction of Life, like the Murdoch metastases and the whole machine of Rightwing ecological collapse denialism. Unfortunately, unless he lives as long as his mother, Murdoch will probably escape justice, but the ranks of the little monsters infesting the ‘Australian’ in particular, will be radically thinned, as they face long overdue justice and lengthy, indeed perpetual, incarceration. No other sentence could possibly fit the magnitude of their crimes.
Mulga: you have such a way with words. Very powerful, but yeah, $$$ the relentless pursuit of profit ahead of people and this Planet we all live on. Complete psychopaths. I especially agree with your descriptions of Howard and Murdoch. There is a real callousness in this country now, compared to when I lived here from 1985-94. And wasn’t Hawke a CIA asset? I also wonder if Shorten still reports to the U.S Embassy? I don’t see a bright future ahead, I think the dogma of Neoliberalism has had a very major impact on people’s pysche’s in Australia. Sadly.
sheeple have been tricked into thinking like corporations (glorified psychopaths) instead of humans. Here is a great book about it (it took centuries) – the author teaches at Columbia I think:
PS I spent a few months in Melbourne 3 years ago (I lived in San Francisco at the time) – I can assure you it’s far superior, nicer, more beautiful and cheaper than any place I have ever seen in the US where I spent 14 or so years or the UK where I spent 13 years. People are infinitely better, friendlier, nicer and better looking than Americans. Beautiful architecture, beaches etc. I’ve seen people’s car brake down and everyone around runs to help (something I have never seen in any other anglo country). I believe your statements, I am just comparing it to the places where I lived – despite being not as good as it used to be – it’s still million times better than USSA, UK and other totalitarian shitholes
As the world continues its descent towards nuclear war many people are incapable ‘of absorbing that sort of upsetting information and choose to ignore it.’ But leaders and decisions are also in denial. ‘But you wouldn’t know that’, to quote The Saker, ‘ listening to the talking heads and other “experts” who serve roughly the same function for the Empire as the orchestra did on the Titanic: to distract from the developing disaster(s) for a long as possible.’
The chaos we experience seems a portent for Armageddon.
I clicked on the ghosthistory link and got a stern warning to not go there, due to possible theft of passwords, etc.
Correct, I went to test your statement thinking that my firefox using noscript will have easy job dealing with it. Well, here is a page explaining this sort of site/browser behavior:
One more thought:
I am not sure if this is a big deal. If you click on “Advanced button” you will get this message:
http://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.wordpress.com, wordpress.com Error code: SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
Which simply means that the owner of that page should have or maybe did used his/he’s own generated certificate. By temporarily accepting the certificate you can go in and look at the contents.
Official certs cost money and many people will do not use this option. the above also means that wordpress generated it’s own certs leaving customers alone to do as they please. Also if you look at *.wordpress.com it should cover ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com but for some reason it does not.
Nothing wrong with that.
Quality. Thank you. Interestingly enough Russia offered to rejoin PACE and hand overall the due past payments if it reasserts its principles on an equitable basis for all members….this puts EU in a spit….continue with the pretence of russophobia in the consolidating presence of say Italy and Austria getting rather cheesed off with that…..or the big prize and split – perhaps finally from USA – dependant on Merkel and co and Mogherini going(considering failing influence over the Venezuela affair)- must be the recognition of Crimea.
Meanwhile the vanity of the Ukraine actively discussing negotiating with Nato how to get support for the presumably naval forces to have unfettered rights of navigation through Kerch still persists…..whether EU naval ships will join in by compulsion or willingly of course is a different matter. Good Crimea has independant energy now and soon rail links will become operational . I look forward to a spring news letter from Auslander?
Spring News possibly after 09 May. At this time we are like a frog on a hot rock, jumping everywhere. Today was City Center for a meeting. Tomorrow is full dress event in Balaklava. Sunday is full dress gig at 35th Battery. Next Wednesday is another full dress event. Etc etc etc for the next three weeks.
This year, actually the dates now and through the next two weeks, is the 75th Anniversary of the Liberation of Krimea and Sevastopol. Quite the to do which is understandable and demanded.
Latest re Kerch…HomeEurasia
MOSCOW – Moscow is calling on Kiev to renounce its plans to resolve the dispute over the Kerch incident before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and sit down at the negotiating table to resolve the differences, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
On April 16, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced that Kiev had submitted an application to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, calling for “coercive measures against Russia” to release the Ukrainian sailors detained in Russia for having illegally crossed the Russian border near the Kerch Strait.
“We call on Ukraine to act in good faith to solve the problem that arose because of it, to show true concern for its citizens and to get involved in consultations instead of litigation,” the statement said.
Interesting interview. Insightful, and amusing, viewpoint on the ‘American situation’. Not exactly incorrect either.
Putin must be quite sure the US is an empty bag.
It is symbolic that Russian jets arrived on the 20th anniversary of NATO’s war against Yugoslavia… Unlike in Yugoslavia.
KIEV, April 17. /TASS/. The Ukrainian State Investigation Bureau launched a criminal case on “the intentional surrender” of Crimea against Verkhovna Rada Speaker Andrei Paruby, Secretary of the Ukrainian Council of National Security and Defense Alexander Turchinov, former Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk and others, the Ukrainian law union Aver Lex told TASS on Wednesday.
Court finds Yanukovich not guilty of ‘losing Crimea’ — attorney
“The State Investigation Bureau opened a criminal case on the intentional surrender of Crimea, violent upheaval, treason and the organization of mass murders on the ‘maidan’ in 2014 by Ukraine’s top officials, in particular by Arseny Yatsenyuk, Alexander Turchinov, Andrei Paruby, [former head of Ukraine’s Security Service] Valentin Nalivaichenko, [Verkhovna Rada member] Sergei Pashinsky, [Permanent Representative to the UN] Yuri Sergeyev, [Kiev Mayor] Vitaly Klichko, [head of the Freedom nationalist party] Oleg Tyagnibok, [former Acting Defense Minister] Igor Tenyukh, [Prosecutor General] Yuri Lutsenko, [Defense Minister] Stepan Poltorak and others,” Aver Lex said.
Wow….determined to throw out the old crowd?????????
It gets messy when rats turn on each other-but is entertaining when they are the ‘human’ sub-species.
9:12 a.m. Eastern Daylight Saving Time,
Unz Review site is down.
Just an excellent education from gentlemen and scholars.
Fine questions and fine exposition by Dmitry.
I love Orlov’s wit and general cynical attitude as it mirrors mine (perhaps not the wit). I think he seems to understand the Ukraine and Russia relatively well though I’m not in a position to question him on that but I do know something about the politics of NATO/EU/USA and their intentions and that Orlov gets.
But he simply does not understand the USA. He’s been predicting collapse for some time and it has not occurred or come close to happening. Washington is filled with smart kleptocrats who understand they cannot afford to destroy the country that keeps on giving them the wealth and power they crave. Trump, can flounce around Washington and the rest of the country and do and say outrageous things and it has no effect on life whatsoever. If anything the economy actually is “better” not as good as the cooked statistics indicate but things have improved for people I know in that area. Americans, despite the obvious propaganda nature of the media still are true-believers in the official Narrative because meaning and myth always trumps reality. While, on the surface, people support ideas like higher minimum wage, universal health-care and other aspects of social democracy, it their masters say “no” then they’ll forgo it and take pride in their ability to endure suffering, early death, their children on heroin or meth, and so on. Since I’m fairly “connected” to the lower/working class and its struggles in my part of the world I can assure you people almost enjoy suffering to a degree that foreigners easily miss and seldom ascribe it to the thieves and criminals who run our society. Americans strut around but feel powerless and don’t have a plan or think they can have a plan because they lack the conceptual frameworks to understand that their leadership is thoroughly rotten.
Having said that, I agree with Auslander, Americans don’t need the central government and would do better, initially, in a highly chaotic situation and establish their own order in their communities and rig up a new set of arrangements very quickly. In some ways the fall of Washington would be the best thing to ever happen in my country.
I am afraid you are wrong. Orlov does understand the US, just like I do, as I have lived in the US. Yes, Orlov has been predicting the collapse of the US, and it will happen. I would like to direct your attention to the following video (the second part is very interesting):
Will there be a civil war in the US, like in the 1861-1865 period ? No, I don’t think so. Will there be severe social disturbances ? Yes, these I do expect, leading to the break up of the US. The only part of the US which probably will emerge as a cohesive force will be the old South, Dixie land, which has history and tradition behind it. The US has been kicking the financial can down the road for a long time. This cannot last for ever.
“The only part of the US which probably will emerge as a cohesive force will be the old South, Dixie land, which has history and tradition behind it. ”
Maybe, but actually I would say most regions of the USA have some kind of “old tradition” —and a lot nicer ones than that of the old racist South. I’ll take New England and the Maritimes any day over the steamy South where the kudzu creeps over I mean *everything*, the snakes proliferate, and you can’t survive the summer without AC 24/7.
Check out American Nations, by Colin Woodard.
Well…I just started in on this piece and already I have a major beef…Orlov’s notion that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was good for Russia…
China was [and arguably still is] an empire of diverse regions, ethnicities and religions…but how is that holding China back today, or during previous centuries of imperial glory…?
Clearly China doesn’t fit into Orlov’s idea of an empire as a ‘wealth pump’ that sucks from the periphery to enrich the center…this is true of course of exploitation-based imperial projects such as western colonialism…but is clearly not applicable to the Chinese model, which has been both the biggest and most durable empire in human history…so that is a big hole in Orlov’s ‘theory’…
It is true that the USSR was a fundamentally different kind of empire from the exploitative western colonialism…and it is also true that it ultimately did not succeed…although it managed to accomplish almost incomprehensible progress in modernization, science and technology…and industrialization…the foundations of Russian strength today rest squarely on the foundations put in place during the Stalin era…
Elsewhere on this site there is a brilliant series of essays by Ramin Mazaheri about the tumultuous cultural revolution of the 1960s…and why it was necessary…Russia also needed a cultural revolution around this time…the system needed to be rejigged to better serve the people…in living standard…fairness and justice…opportunity for social advance…etc…
But it never happened…instead the system became more sclerotic than ever…and the welfare of the people stagnated…at the very moment in time when the capitalist west, especially the United States, was able to reign in the appetites of its parasite class and provide the people with a decent share of its [largely ill-gotten, by means of global finance colonialism] gains…[during the postwar decades, the share of national wealth of the 0.1 percent fell to an all time low of about 7 percent…about a quarter of historic, and current levels]…
This was the golden age in the US…well paying jobs in industry were plentiful and the company president made perhaps ten times what the shop floor worker took home…a second household income was completely unnecessary…university education at state colleges was practically free…
The life of the Soviet citizen in the1960s was not too far behind…Stalin’s five year plans in the1930s had created an industrial powerhouse…it was Russia’s ability to produce that allowed it to prevail over Germany in the existential war…and despite the devastation of the people, cities and countryside Russia was able to quickly become a technological superpower…as an aerospace engineer I have a deep appreciation of the depth and breadth of Russian technical achievements and the basic scientific advances that made that possible…the US was laughably left in the dust, despite having skimmed the cream of Nazi Germany’s technical scientific talent…and contrary to what US propaganda would have the people believe…
China in the postwar era was starting from scratch…millions were in danger of starving, and many did…there was no industry nor infrastructure to speak of…Mao’s great leap forward lifted several hundred million souls out of the very real possibility of perishing…the foundations of industry, some of which were already in place thanks to Russian help were systematically built…compared to Russia and the US China started from 100 years back…although it’s worth noting that 200 years ago China was the world’s biggest and most prosperous economy by far…
So these are the broad historical strokes of the 20’th century…it’s useless to talk about empires as some kind of ‘pumps’ without first understanding these basic dynamics…the simple fact is that China has done everything right in the last 70 years…while Russia did great [and smart] things under Stalin and the momentum of those accomplishments managed to carry over for a couple of more decades, before the system crumbled, due to lack of renewal…
China’s communist party again showed its dexterity by making yet another renewal in the1980s…allowing a limited and pragmatic capitalism to carve out a niche for itself and help millions to achieve prosperity…much is made in the ridiculous western press about China’s billionaires, but hundreds of millions of peasants and street level ‘business people’ making a better life for themselves is where the real story lies…
Of course the massive Chinese empire has been adapting like this for centuries, if not millennia…Russia with the Soviet Union only needed to make similar smart adjustments…instead they threw out the baby with the bathwater…let’s see where Russia goes from here, but with people like Siluanov and Nabiullina in charge of the nation’s money, I am not optimistic…
But back to Orlov…let’s see where he goes after starting off very clumsily. .
Under Mao, despite natural disasters and political mistakes, China grew economically at about 10%p.a, but from the lowest base imaginable ie after 150 years of malevolent Western interference, Opium Wars, the Taiping Rebellion, Civil Wars and the genocidal assault of the Japanese Imperial butchers. Life expectancy rose from less than 40 to nearly 70, illiteracy was eliminated, and the basis for the later industrial ‘miracle’ was laid. And women were emancipated for the first time in Chinese history. AND they beat the USA in Korea, too. Is it any wonder that all true Western racist supremacists so hate Mao?
Great interview and great analysis.
The sort of cool, intelligent common sense–that is not very common at all, nowadays— backed by an encyclopaedic knowledge of his subjects that has always made Dmitry worth reading.
Thanks from me, too, an enjoyable read on a very tricky theme.
The Toltec sages used to say: “To really know something means that it must also entail the knowledge of what course of action to take. And once you know what to do, you actually do it”. So they firmly stated that the only worthy knowledge is a functional one. Normally, the trascendental matters were integrally consulted with the “Eagle” (i.e. the Entity out there with limitless consciousness, which sounds pretty much like “God”) through a link that in the west is ignorantly dismissed as “intuition”. This to remark that the big decisions must not rely entirely on the rational part, because it is too prone to make mistakes.
We all know who the adversary is: it’s not the AZE (AngloZionist Empire) per se, it’s who rule the Empire. And what they are doing in Ukraine is pretty clear:
* The endgame is to carve another Poland from the Russian population, as a means to weaken the Russian State. The steps are obvious and unfortunately, maybe definitive: zioimposed religious schism, forceful and exclusive use of “Ukrainian” from 2020 on, denial to belong to other country different from “Ukraine” (a patchwork assembled through land thefts). Fortunately Russia recovered Crimea, and the mining/industrial regions are disputed, but the Khazarians control 2 critical assets: the other coastal oblasts and the chernozem soils.
* Stating that Russia cannot absorb Novorossiya is bullsh¡t. Germany, a smaller economy with no sovereign government could absorb the RDA. If Russia doesn’t decide, the situation will decide by itself. Russia is already receiving a lot of displaced Russians, plus tons of Russians in Ukraine who became the source of cheap labor for Russian companies. And what about the costs of humanitarian assistance and military support to Russians under the Ukraine dictatorship? Let’s say it takes 30 years to revert the decay, so what? Russia has been around longer and has had successful comebacks under way more destruction.
* The Donbass people already decided twice, by clear majority of the popular vote, to become part of the Russian Federation. The right thing to do is simply accepting them. Not doing so sends the signal that no matter what the other southwestern Oblasts do, they will not be accepted either. Russia should openly support the Russians in the southeast of Ukraine who want to secede and reintegrate with the Russian Federation. For example, financing a reunification party, granting contracts and jobs to the Russian allies there, logistically supporting a secesion movement, even militarily, because the Khazarians will not let go without bloodshed.
The acceleration of economic collapse in the West will be likely bring (overt) fascism and war–world war.
In particular, the AngloNazi … sorry… Anglosphere nations (Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and of course America) are a clear and present threat that should not be underestimated, discounted, or spin-doctored away.
As collapse intensifies, these Anglo American entities led by the USA will surely lash out in even more aggressive wars to maintain their unipolar world order that they have ruled over since the fall of the Soviet Union. The use of tactical nuclear weapons, bio-warfare, and other “exotic” weapons should not be ruled out.
At base, the Anglo Americans possess an inbred sense of economic entitlement. They whine like snowflakes about the foreign outsourcing of jobs or “illegal immigrants stealing our jobs” as a chauvinistic demand for a greater share of the economic spoils of imperialism.
But the Anglos studiously avoid facing the reality that their precious way of life, capitalist system, and Anglo-
American world order itself are premised upon their own ruthless exploitation of the Global South and developing nations in general.
And God forbid that the Anglos lose their parasitic way of life and (horror) are compelled to live like the vast majority of humanity in the developing world from Africa to Asia to Latin America to the Middle East.
The disaffected middle classes and labor aristocracy of the Anglosphere will comprise the grassroots basis for 21st-century fascism, similar to how these socio-economic classes were the grassroots support for the German Third Reich or Mussolini’s Italy in the 1930s-40s.
Trump and the MAGA hordes, as well as similar xenophobic and nationalist movements throughout the Anglosphere and Europe, are only a precursor to what is coming. They represent the grievances of the lower-middle classes within the Anglo American Empire and Europe who want a greater cut of the economic loot of empire for themselves–which necessitates an even more aggressive and militaristic grab for global resources, markets, and geopolitical power.
As Martin Lee has put it, the Beast reawakens.
The only difference between Poroshenko and Zelensky, or any of the other 30+ people who appeared on the ballot, is that Poroshenko has already stolen his billions while his contestants have not had a chance to do so yet, the only reason to run for president, or any elected office, in the Ukraine, being to put oneself in a position to do some major thieving
Sounds like Ukrainian politicians are merely lighter skinned versions of politicians in my own country (Nigeria)
Mr Orlov’s disguised right-wing, ultra-nationalist views paint a portrait of what is wrong with today’s wholesale anti-Soviet, Russian intelligentsia. I was most horrified by his scenario of an engineered nuclear leak to damage Ukrainian agriculture in the service of a political goal! Fortunately, for the entire world, President Putin has shown himself to be an extraordinarily principled leader, full of restraint and guided by high humanist and spiritual beliefs.
The US is not, as Mr Orliv would have us believe in his cute, facile ultra-nationalist view, a mere dumping ground for immigrants from “shithole countries” that has been laid to waste and ready to sink. The US, beyond the grips of the deep state is also the cradle of progressive movements and many progressive ideas in many fields, and patriotic citizen’s resistance, however tiny,
Not sure if extensive Lavrov interview earlier in April was reported on saker……..extract
Question: Have you seen any grounds for optimism in the results of the first round of the presidential election in Ukraine?
Sergey Lavrov: To be honest, I haven’t seen any grounds for either optimism or pessimism. What’s the point of guesswork? This is a process that should take place and will be completed. I do not doubt this or that the West will recognise this election.
OSCE observers released their preliminary report on the results of the first round of the presidential election, which abounds in examples of flagrant violations: corruption, bribery, pressure on voters and many other things. However, all this is described in a neutral tone. I think if they wrote about us, they would present these facts emotionally. Now they are doing it in an understated way and conclude that this did not affect the legitimacy of the election. Neither was it affected by the flagrant violation of OSCE rules when our observers were kicked out and over three million Ukrainians working and living in Russia were deprived of the right to vote. These are facts of life in Ukraine.
I think that the results of the election and the way it was organised came as no surprise to those who have been following domestic developments in Ukraine and its external ties. They are already calling each other puppets… It’s probably interesting to watch from the side but I don’t think that Ukrainian citizens are happy about this kind of democracy.
Question: Are the prospects of Russia-Ukraine cooperation still vague?
Sergey Lavrov: We are open to dialogue if the aim is not chatting and looking for excuses to do nothing but rather the practical implementation of the Minsk agreements. I have no doubt that Petr Poroshenko does not want to do this and won’t do this. When Viktor Medvedchuk just suggested seriously discussing what autonomous rights may be granted to Donbass, he was called a traitor. Poroshenko said this will never happen although he himself signed a document on the special status of Donbass, which is described with sufficient detail in the Minsk agreements.
These provisions on what rights Donbass should have were formulated by German Chancellor Angela Merkel personally, among others, but her ward has got out of hand. This is a fact. On the one hand, he doesn’t listen to Germany or France because he has American “patrons”. On the other hand, they find it embarrassing to pressure him in public because by doing so they will admit that what they call their “mediation” has failed.
However, there is no other document except for the Minsk agreements. They can certainly be supplemented. For instance, it is possible to provide OSCE observers with UN armed guards, as we suggest in response to the apprehensions of Ukrainians about their safety. But the core of these agreements must remain unchanged. The main point is that all issues are settled directly between Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk…..”
Thank you Dmitry Orlov, and The Saker.
One of the most informative, well written, and frankly enjoyable to read, pieces I have read for ages.
Comprehensive representation of the current givens. Dimitry + Saker, the ultimative analysts on historic level.
Dimitry’s “The USA isn’t so much a country as a country club” tells the essence.
My attempt as astrologer is, to show the parallels in the symbolic mirror of the zodiac, exactly telling, what we are and will be witnessing.
An attempt to catch an universe of meaning in some charts and readings.
does not sound good in any way anywhere west of Russia… so options:
1. Get born in Russia or East of Russia next time over or
2. Manifest in another universe a bit more advance than this one and therefore more peaceful.
3. Learn Russian, have a useful skill, and apply for Russian citizenship.
Which is what I would do if I weren’t old, broken, and broke. But if I were a younger healthy man…
Well…after reading the entire piece, I must admit I’m not impressed…
The main global dynamic right now is the Chinese industrial and economic juggernaut…a geopolitically resurgent Russia…and the unraveling of the dollar dominated global financial order…
The problem with the west is not so much cultural as it is economic…the west is a giant Ponzi scheme that must ultimately collapse…as all ‘financialized’ economies have collapsed since the beginning of money…as any careful reader of Michael Hudson can tell you…
One morning we will wake up and the machine will be out of gas…simple as that…no money…no funny…
That’s why the rest of the world is moving toward a trading system that circumvents the dollar, or any kind of so-called ‘reserve’ currency…the US itself is shoving this process forward by weaponizing trade and finance by means of sanctions gone wild…
There does not need to be any kind of universal trading currency in the digital age…it is simply a matter of putting the settlement mechanisms in place…and more important, bypassing the HUMAN exchange networks now in place…ie the old boys club through which dollar denominated global trade now flows…
Once these processes mature, there will be no way of perpetuating the western financial Ponzi scheme…it has crashed before…most recently a decade ago…but has been kept on life support by negative interest rates, plus further impoverishment of the marginal class…but once the reserve currency is gone, and with it the ability to print free money…the machine is dead for good…
At that point the west needs to earn its living the honest way…that may be a tough transition…
A splendid interview from the first all the way down to the concluding question — hats off and thank you very much, Saker and Orlov.
”It must be remembered that the Ukrainians, in spite of the decay of the last 30 years, still have something of the Russian fighting spirit in them, and will fight like Russians—until victory or until death. NATO’s gender-ambivalent military technicians would not want to get in their way at all.”
Quite correct concerning NATO’s soldiery (vot tak’s pet phrase ”Zionazi gay” springs to mind immediately!) But let’s be blunt: The Ukros are fighting until death; not victory. At first, I didn’t grasp the profound correctness in Orlov’s assessment to the effect that Russia’s stunning success this century — once the West’s kleptocracy under Gorbachev and Yeltsin got ousted — is because it doesn’t have to feed any ungrateful slobs of which the Ukros are the very ’finest’ breed. Ukraine (except Galicia which never contributed anything) went from being a top-notch industrial powerhouse as part of the USSR to a Western owned and ditto run Nazi asylum. Proves Orlov’s point marvelously.
Fantastic Interview! I couldn’t stop reading it even though my two kids were jumping all over me nonstop. From some of the previous interviews (including this one) Dmitry mentioned the dangers of glyphosates and non-ionizing radiation. I hoped to have a more in depth overview of these atrocities against western population from his point of view.
Perhaps somebody else would like to comment in regards to the deployment of 5G and the latest Trump comments that it should be done ASAP.
The reason I’m asking is that it appears the whole 5G thing has very little to do with the “internet of things” and much more with the most advanced control of the society ever known. Many scientists with numerous links to the secret servicers (such as dr Barrie Trower, the leading microwave weapons expert) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVIbPtNrVo&t=4s
implying that 5G is the gravest danger to humanity. If this is the case, then the whole disintegration of the West is a preplanned event and the outcome would be something that no analyst yet considered.
If that is the documentary that I saw yesterday, the fact that Rudolph Steiner predicted the dangers of electro-magnetic radiation, in the form of radio waves, for human beings and their neurological faculties, in 1924, was a real mind-boggler. I well remember false accusations against the dastardly Soviets of bombarding the US Embassy in Moscow with harmful microwave radiation decades ago, but today, far higher and ubiquitous, inescapable, microwave radiation is a veritable blessing, a panacea for the economic Moloch. Somebody wants us all dead.
Thanks for that interview on 5G radiation…with a bona fide top expert Dr. Trower…we are seeing already
a massive problem with honey bees and other pollinating insects and one has to wonder about the massive increase in microwave radiation…
Just so. 5G technology, glyphosate, genetic engineering, radioactive contamination, global chemtrail spraying, and pervasive electromagnetic fields are designed to take down humanity and the global biosphere. The global die off is already well underway. The oceans are dying, the great forests are burning and/or being cut down. The planetary food chain (global ecology) is like any other chain: start removing links and the chain disintegrates and fails very rapidly.
Due to the pitiless impact of the Law of Exponents the end may be ten years or less away.
Large, mass mortality events are a virtual certainty at this point. People are going to die in very large numbers, and not in the far distant future. Ditto for numerous other biological life forms.
The global populations of bees, butterflies, frogs, salamanders, little tweety birds, whales, sea lions, sea turtles, etc. & etc. are crashing hard right now all over the world.
The political chattering class(es) will soon be caught out for the demonic, vacuous, ignorant fools they are, all over the world.
Those who survive the coming 5 to 15 years will have to be much wiser, or they will be dead.
Political machinations and intrigue as we have known them will be going spectacularly bye-bye, and not in the far flung future.
I set out a Preliminary Program For A Survivable World here:
If something like what I lay out is not soon done, then humanity and much of the rest of the biosphere on this planet are toast. Tardigrades, lichens and cyanobacteria may survive, but more complex life forms will perish in droves, in a short period of time as the plant becomes uninhabitable for higher life forms, like horses, whales, turtles, orange trees, ferns, lilacs, ducks and parrots.
Quite so. Here in Austfailia we are involved in an election campaign of unprecedented mendacity and viciousness, marked by a truly deranged and literally diabolical campaign by the Pentecostal thug, Morrison, our PM, and the fakestream media, particularly the Murdoch cancer, against any action on climate destabilisation. The policies proffered by the opposition Labor Party are laughably inadequate, but only a quarter or so as inadequate as the ruling regime’s supposed policies (which they will repudiate if re-elected)but they are drawing truly demented and fanatic opposition, primarily on the basis of cost. As if destroying Life on Earth was ‘cost-free’.
This comes just after a record hot summer, with records broken for minima, the maximum (I lived through it-46.6 Celsius or 116 or so Fahrenheit) for a capital city, and average temperatures. We have seen huge fires in sub-tropical rain-forests (unknown since White settlement), in temperate rain forests and alpine meadows in Tasmania (also previously unseen, probably for hundreds of years, at least). fires in the dead of winter, bleaching of the Norfolk Island coral reefs (the most southerly)and mass fish deaths in our one ‘major’ river system, the Murray-Darling. The east of the country is gripped in a drought of unprecedented depth and extent, and in many places, duration. Where rain did fall, in northern Queensland, after seven years of drought, the delight at the rain turned to horror as the rain fell in huge amounts, causing a ‘one in 2000 year’ flood that drowned 500,000 cattle. And the drought seems only to be worsening.
Yet, in the face of these disasters, the regime and the Rightwing propaganda machine and hate-media still are infested with outright denialists, who assert that climate science is fraudulent. They are also fanatic enemies of renewable energy, and proponents of fossil fuels, particularly coal, And most of them have children, who they are condemning to a life of Hell on Earth, and a premature and wretched death. Has there EVER been greater Evil than this?
Dear Mulga Mumblebrain, if you are able to do so plant some trees. And if you are able to plant a lot of trees, please do so at your earliest convenience.
Trees are vitally important for the health of the Earth and humanity.
I’ve been planting trees for decades. Here, where we’ve lived for twenty years, I’ve planted c.200. Unfortunately we’ve been in drought for about fifteen of those years, and about one quarter have died. Still, I’ve got scores more growing from seed, cuttings and will give marcotting a good go this spring. We still have lots of insects, but markedly down in numbers over recent years, and every gardener I speak to notes that the climate is definitely rapidly changing, and becoming drier and hotter. Bird numbers are still high, but new species are moving in and disturbing the harmony of the older arrangements. And rabbit numbers are increasing, since our outdoor cat, a merciless rabbit eater, carelessly got himself run over. Survived three snake-bites, too, the poor old beggar.
I applaud the tree planting! Condolences on the death of the resident feline.
He’s way too negative on the USA’s domestic prospects. Despite its absurdities, the US system is fundamentally robust and unlikely to suffer any major, sudden collapse, at least for many decades. It will certain decline further, plumbing the depths of depravity more than it has to date, but the system will chug along. The US has vacuumed up talent from all over the world, bolstering it’s economic capacity and the rents extracted by oligo. It’s day to day institutions, such as courts, post offices and the like function better now than they did in the 80s or 90s. All the incentives are there to keep the thing together, with little real risk of some sort of succession movement or serious insurrection. The main advantages the US has on this score are it’s mass surveillance system, policing infrastructure and media. The US media can make the great bulk of the people believe absolutely anything, if given enough time. The US capacity to meddle overseas will wither, after all how well can a submarine filled with drag queens and single mothers operate? And who’d be willing to endure shelling for a monstrosity like contemporary America? But the domestic system is brilliantly designed, not going anywhere.
”The US media can make the great bulk of the people believe absolutely anything”
Precisely. Which, like every other part of the West’s social fabric, works as long as there is a steady influx of global booty. On this basis, Russia and China are a mortal danger as they offer the Global South a road to independence and development. With the West’s ruling psychopaths seething — quite correctly — with hatred and contempt of their home populations, the latter will indeed suffer a collapse of their societies once the Elites decide to pull the flush. Even if the Western Elites wanted to — which they don’t — they can’t keep up the West’s living standards when imperialism are facing mounting resistance from without. Interesting times ahead.
This is why they are pushing the anti meat agenda. Let the masses eat cricket flour! Lower their expectations. As E Michael Jones says “you can’t have a raise, but you can go to the gay disco”. What a big joke!
Well, Bollocks, industrialised meat production and consumption is bad for the Earth, for the consumer and for the poor animal. A lose-lose-lose proposition.
That was a mighty interesting and at times amusing read. Good one Saker and Dmitry Orlov. The great obstacle to the demise of the USA and EU will be the oligarchs. One good read is Peter Phillips recent book and here is a recent interview:
Stay well and happy Dmitry, I love your thoughts.
”/…/ the rank idiocy of Zbigniew Brzezinski’s ’Grand Chessboard’: his theory that Russia wants to be an empire but cannot do so without the Ukraine”
Not bad for a Pole, mind you: Zbig’s Grand Chessboard was published way back in 1997. Seventeen years later, Russia/Moscow/the Kremlin/Putin carried out the ”illegal annexation of Crimea”, LOL.
”Some Ukrainian rocket scientists have apparently gone off to work in North Korea, and this explains the DPRK’s recent stunning successes in rocketry”
Excellent news, if true. Frim Pyongyang to Kiev with love. Ready, aim, fire!
It’s always funny when the layman commentator attempts to opine on a technical subject…Orlov points to North Korea’s use of UDMH rocket fuel as some kind of ‘link’ to Ukrainian rocket technology…which is ridiculous, because UDMH is an ideal missile fuel and has been used by every major rocket nation, including China, Europe, India, the US and of course Russia…
The big advantage of unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine is that it’s liquid at room temperature…this allows missiles to be fueled and kept launch ready at a moment’s notice for years on end…you can’t do that with cryogenic fuels and oxidizers which must be cooled to hundreds of degrees below zero, and can therefore only be pumped into the rocket fuel tanks just before launch…a huge military disadvantage…UDMH is typically used with nitric oxide as the oxidizer, which is also room temperature liquid…some Russian ballistic subs still use UDMH and nitric oxide missiles and these liquid fuel rockets will always outperform solid fuel rockets, which are really just a big firecracker with a hole in the bottom…
Also there is no reason to doubt that North Korea has developed its rocket technology indigenously…one of the great strengths of the communist system is in education…particularly the hard sciences…the postwar Soviet Union made just about all of mankind’s major aerospace technology strides pretty much single handedly…an example of how centrally directed action and resources can accomplish great things that a so called free market would never think to do on its own…the US under Kennedy in the1960s marshalled the same kind of top down central planning with NASA and the Apollo program…this is the only way to do big science…the proof is in how quickly the US fell right behind again after the1970s when the free market ideology was again imposed…another example of this was the massive top down Manhattan Project…but again it was the Russians that proceeded to develop civil nuclear energy and now dominate that global market…
Incidentally…all the major scientific and technical breakthroughs were accomplished in the first half of the 20’th century…nuclear energy, rocketry and the jet engine foremost among these…the improvements since then have only been incremental…microelectronics is not actually very important to anything other than consumer applications…although it has made possible the internet and the quite massive ramifications that kind of point to point mass communication has on both the spread of knowledge and the average citizen’s ability to resist misinformation and indoctrination…although it seems very few are actually availing themselves of this capability…
There is no mention of the biggest US export business, Boeing aircraft. The scandal around the civilian Boeing 737-Max8 as well as the military’s F-35 is bringing the leading exports to an uncertain hiatus if not outright grinding halt.
Buyers have become acutely aware of faulty business processes where business and government oversight intersect. We are starting to see that these problems are systemic. The current system offers no adequate checks and balances within the deep state. Throwing large sums of money around will not fix or even patch the problems.
Since the 737-Max8 grounding, not a single new 737-Max8 order has been signed.
No arm-twisting, bribery or other persuasion has been able to force a single sale. This is outright remarkable. We have never seen such a “non-event” of this scale. Not a single buyer has taken an aircraft for delivery, despite 5’000 orders outstanding for this model.
I believe this phenomen is the tip of an iceberg. The crisis is approaching at a much faster rate than many have anticipated. Your mileage might vary…
The u.s. regulators did what u.s. regulators have been instructed to do since the raygun regime – don’t interfere with corporate profiteering. Boeing was given a free pass. This is how capitalism works, is supposed to work.
Due to a probable wiring misfit and some life experience, I like political incorrect sarcasm ;-)
I’ve already read several articles of Dimitri Orlov so he is known to me, but in this interview he’s really on fire. Saker and Dimitri Orlov, thank you both for a real insight on some global happenings. It was a treat. Something to chew on.
it’s nice little upbeat fantasy but Orlov forgot what the so called “Capitalism” does when its back is against the wall with no other options left: war! USA/West//NATO/Europe will NOT allow thelseves to fail; they are so arrogant and so full of themselves they WILL try to start a war, most likely in flashpoint places like the Kertch straight or South Sea.
I see today as the repeat of the 1920-1930; after the roaring 20s, the world sank into a world depression that morphed into WWII. I predict a world war within the next 2-5 years. Hopefully, Putin will be able to find a worthy successor by this time and will be able to convince them that a war will be a suicide to USA/West.
Saker … I am just a common West European .. Danish in fact … I am a bit unusual for a dane I admit , as I have lived outside my Country for most of my life , and the reasons for that being ,partly circumstance partly that I wasn’t happy about the state of affairs in my Home country , mainly due to usurious taxation but also of other reasons . I am now a pensioner , with enough Money to be able to live almost anywhere I would choose… still I returned to my native Country, with which I don’t agree very much but I did it .. because I am a Dane and ..may be naively ..hoped in spite of being a completely insignifficant elderly person to be able to make a small difference.in those years I have left of this Life.
I would like to interview 2 professed patriotic and intelligent Russians , both living in the USA about their MOTIVES in their endless BASHING of everything European ( the part which concerns ME ) .. as well as their endless Bashing of Americans , the people among whom they choose to live , in both instances expressing Ridicule and Disgust bordering to Hate towards these 2 Areas of the World.
Most of all I would like to receive an answer to the reasons for that hate…
As You can hear there might be some tough questions , some of which You personally have attempted to answer, still in my mind not completely satisfactory , ( I have read Your article about this Issue and have been accused in a similar manner , so I know the feeling )
I have a PURPOSE with such an exercise .. because I would in the best case hope for it to be POSITIVE in this deranged World of NEGATIVES … Remember there are almost 1 Billion People in Europe , still being the richest Place on Earth , with Moneys and Capital including Populations Your beloved Russia desperately needs …that’s why some Pipelines are being buildt .. and an industrial Capacity ,a disciplined Workforce , Educational level as well as Infrastructiure second to none … Do You remember how fast Germany rose out of the Ashes from 1933 … it doesn’t take so much , provided the basics are there….. and they definitely are there …. In Europe …. Especially if Europe is pushed too far ..
The TRUTH ..my dear Saker ..it is EUROPE , which is the coveted Prize over which the fight is ongoing .. and it is a brutal War , where all means are used .. by all parties implicated ..and only made possible by a corrupted European Elite ..enslaved to an even more sinister Global Elite so far sitting in the driver seat .. but most likely to be replaced in the years coming … if I can judge the ANGER smoldering among European populations … an Anger which just needs the right Spark and the right Persons to materialize …. Therefore my advice is .. dont bully the European People.. it could proove counter productive of what i perceive is both Your goals as well as those of ..I believe ..a majority of the common European people …
I think that you are making an unwarranted assumption: that Russians hate the USA or the West. They don’t. But they are fed up with 1000 years of western imperialism, wars, subversion, intervention, etc. etc. etc. We also don’t want the Europe of Conchita Wurst infecting the Russian nation. Folks in the West like that? Great! Enjoy! But don’t force that stuff down our throats.
Finally, you might want to take a look at this: http://thesaker.is/why-do-i-live-in-the-usa/
”I would like to interview 2 professed patriotic and intelligent Russians , both living in the USA about their MOTIVES in their endless BASHING of everything European ( the part which concerns ME ) .. as well as their endless Bashing of Americans , the people among whom they choose to live , in both instances expressing Ridicule and Disgust bordering to Hate towards these 2 Areas of the World.”
Ole: As a Swede who never fell for the Russophobic noises of the MSM and even less for the dogma of Western supremacism, I should feel inclined to say that the Russian view is entirely justified. Exceptional, indispensable Pindos and their Euro-trash kith and kin have an inbred sense of entitlement to the world’s natural resources and labour output after half a millennium of premeditated genocide and ecocide around the planet. The West’s burning hatred of Russia is based precisely on Russia’s resilience — with very good reason. Russia, especially in Soviet times but very much also applicable to the present, shows to the world’s oppressed peoples that
a) the West can be defeated
b) that it’s possible to achieve truly prodigious results without slavery, mayhem, and murder even as the West launches extermination campaigns against your country.
The West is collapsing as we speak. Russia in particular has zero use for any arrogant, self-worshipping trash babbling about their ”European values” and ”Exceptional Indispensable Country”.
Many Europeans don’t like Conchita Wurst either or don’t even know the hewoman. The Dutch voted against the EU constitution and so did the French. Both their governments forced the EU constitution through their throats anyway and that without asking (Lisbon treaty). The other European people haven’t even been asked whether they wanyted to accept the rules of the EU.
The Gilets Jaunes movement is one important but not the first reaction to the EU dictatorship and its forced upon us political, economical and cultural changes of which the LGBT Wurst thingemy is just one tiny example.
What the GJ propose is true democracy. What that animal looks like is being discussed by groups lead by people influenced by Etienne Chouard and is something the modern western world has never seen before. Only the ancient Greeks had something that came close and that only for a short while…
Watch the following 2 videos (French but with English subtitles), they’re really interesting:
I think Mr. Orlov made some mistakes when talking about historical relation of Ukraine with Russia.
Ukraine was under Polish-Lithuenian Commonwealth till Chmielnicki gifted the eastern part off the Dniepre river , around 1648, to Russia. Also Crimea came into Russian possession only under Katherine the Whore, not before. It is not Russian land despite Russification.
He correctly translates the meaning of Ukraina as “At the end of the land”, meaning Polish land. The name originated from Polish not Russian.
He is right that Russia for centuries has been ruled by foreigners and the Khazars’ has been the worst and still are and will be, as long, Russian sons and daughters will allow them. Maybe that new generation of governors will make the change but I doubt. They are probably hungry for money and will learn fast who is the boss.
Maybe the other Soviet republics suckled Russiya but Russiya suckled the all countries under their occupation. That was common secret and we from those countries agree that they were robbed by Russia and their Jewish partners. It can be proved. By that all of them hate Russians to the point of blindness.
Hopefully the Third Secret of Fatima will come true and Jews get their WW3 and Russia will overrun whole Europe, destroys Vatican and will be defeated at the end, loose their Asian territory and become good, free from Jews, sovereign, European, respectful nation. So be it.
Gownopolska über alles
Über alles in der Welt
Churchill, for all his drug stupor and moral depravity, did know some truths after all.
Yum, Polish tears are delicious. For someone who was “occupied” by “Soviet government” (who were all Polish) you sure know nothing about how the USSR worked. Mr. Orlov is quite correct. Also, Ekaterina Velikaya liberated Crimea from a Tatar khan, not from any mythical “Ukrainians.” Your main problem is you’ve stumbled onto a site where almost everyone is a good deal more fluent in history than you are. Keep an open mind and you just might learn something. Or continue to worship your Pope and believe in idiotic stories like “Fatima” and see how well that all ends up.
Hard words, guys, for a very hard situation!
A little “heart kung-fu” may be needed to get humanity through this fix, without all of us turning on each other and ripping ourselves to shreds…..at least with words….LOL
Necessity being the Mother of Invention….and this being The Best of All Possible Worlds….I remain somewhat more optimistic than most of the commenters…..and the author …whose extremely sarcastic view of things not steeled in strength in the Russian Way …(.through endurance of hardship producing toughness on many levels.)….I thoroughly enjoy.
It forces one to take on each new day not so oblivious to the very real hazards. of the coming months and years.
I object to the commenter’s use of the term “Katherine the Whore” for Catherine the Great.
Yes, she was an imperialist—that was the name of the game.
She was also an extraordinary woman who never would have become empress of Russia if she had not been.
She expanded the empire and built many of the beautiful buildings that today are signatures of Russia’s Golden Age. Those who don’t like them should perhaps advocate for tearing or burning them down!
She built, through canny exploitation of foreign nobles’ financial troubles (esp. English) the extraordinary Renaissance art collections that are held in the Hermitage and other museums. The Hermitage collection started out as her personal collection.
It was under Catherine that the Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire.
Catherine had an outstanding intellect. Not only did she learn to speak and write Russian like a native, she was also fluent in French and corresponded with Voltaire and other French intellectuals (and of course German, her native language).
Catherine took over the empire in a coup that she herself organized and led on horseback, from her sickly weakling husband, who had zero talent for governing anything. He like to play with toy soldiers (literally). Despite the fact that Catherine had been his only real friend during his troubled teenagerdom. It can be argued that through her coup Catherine saved the existing Russian empire and certainly she expanded and strengthened it, also overseeing the construction of modern infrastructure such as canals and the naval base at Sevastopol.
Catherine also oversaw the partitioning of the Polish-Lithuanian empire, gaining for Russia the lion’s share.
Catherine founded the first institution in Russia for educating girls. Und so weiter und so fort.
If Catherine was a “whore” because she liked men and like to dance—well, we should then all be such Russian whores.
”Catherine also oversaw the partitioning of the Polish-Lithuanian empire, gaining for Russia the lion’s share.”
Hence neatly erasing Gownopolska — small wonder our esteemed Polak here has to slander her as well as her achievements.
There are different accounts on Khrushchev’s origins, but accordingly to most biographers Khrushchev was ethnic Russian. He was born in the part of Russia that borders with Ukraine where cultures mingled a lot and he spent much of his early career in Ukraine. As a consequence, he had many preferences and regional traits that gave him Ukrainian look. However, aside from acquired taste for Ukrainian cuisine, drinking songs and clothing, Nikita Khrushchev was Russian.
On Pg 106 and Pg 244 of his memoirs (Khrushchev Remembers), Khrushchev states clearly that he is Russian, not Ukrainian.
Khrushchev was born on April 15, 1894, in Kalinovka, a small Russian village near the Ukrainian border. His parents, Sergei Khrushchev and Xeniya Khrushcheva, were poor peasants of Russian origin. At age 14 he moved with his family to the Ukrainian mining town of Yuzovka, where he apprenticed as a metalworker and performed other odd jobs.
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev#Early_years
That’s interesting.I think someone has changed the Wikipedia page. I’ve heard for many years that even though he was born in Russia,his ancestry was Ukrainian .Either his father or grandfather moved there from Ukraine.But now all that is missing on the Wiki page. So far at least they haven’t purged his wife’s page,and she is still shown as Ukrainian.
Vierotchka, thanks for pointing out the Khrushchev was not Ukrainian.
I recently copyedited a book that made this assertion. Just doing basic fact check wanted author to add where K was born, and to my surprise I found that he was not born in the Ukraine.
This is a typical kind of meme that gets spread through repetition and is used to explainn a lot of things that actually require other explanations. Khrushchev the Ukrainian native is repeated all the time.
K may have loved Uke culture or may have had a political debt to pay or something when he “gave” Crimea to Ukraine. But it was not because he himself was Ukrainian—because he wasn’t.
From 1918 to 1948 Khrushchev was politically active in the Ukraine and his entire political career until his move to Moscow (which ended disastrously 18 years later) was spent in the Ukraine. The question of his ethnicity is irrelevant. What mattered was his loyalty and his political debts.
“The question of his ethnicity is irrelevant. What mattered was his loyalty and his political debts.”
True, and not contested.
But his supposed Ukrainian ethnicity *is* trotted out to explain things, and this was my point.
Even the “expert” (and he is very well known) author of the book I was working on mentioned this.
The notion that Lugansk and Donetsk would represent an unbearable burden on Russia makes little sense, especially after stating that these are traditional Russian lands with ethnically Russian population, and that they are highly developed and with a lot of industry and capable people. Modernization, or bringing the region up to date, could proceed at whatever pace Russia chose, it would not have to happen in a couple of years. It makes little sense also within the perspective of the spectacular pace of recovery the country was capable of within a few years after WW2, where it had suffered unspeakable devastation, and again after the Yeltsin years.
No, the main/only reason Russia is biding its time with regard to these two provinces is because it does not want more complications on the international scene, especially at a time where the gas pipes are being laid etc. It is an understandable reason.
But the fact that the people living there have to put up with constant shelling does not make life a veryenticing prospect. It is depressing. It’s been 5 years now. It causes people to lose heart and leave. Eventually the place will become nearly empty, which seems to be precisely what Ukraine and its handlers seek to achieve.
I suppose if things between the US and Russia eventually reach a higher level of confrontation due to the US upping the ante all the time, eventually Russia might react in a more forceful way which may include extending some kind of formal protectorate status to not only those two provinces but other parts of Novorossiya as well if the population wants it.
Wonderful interview, full of interest, even if the last part goes off a little into fantasy – maybe the world or I will catch up with Dmitry.
I used to think I had my own thoughts on Ukraine and inequality/European politics. Generated by my own intelligence and analysis. I now realise I have stolen them all from Dmitry on your pages (and from David Goodhart).
I think Ukraine is a society that cannot mobilize itself to address its problems. Many Ukrainians are probably unhappy with the current state of affairs but don’t see institutional mechanisms they could use to address the problems.
The plural of “ethnos” is ἔθνη (ethne), not “ethnoi”, as the Greek word is (gender-)neutral rather than masculine. ;)
I love Dmitry; I have all of his books, but I’ve always known that his creativity is best expressed as fiction. I’m glad that he’s embracing that reality now.
Wow. Don’t know about the rest but about the Russian Army: we don’t want any part of them.
I helped win Reagan’s cold war in the mid 80’s in germany mainly by drinking large quantities of good german and Czechoslovakian beer. Knowing that at the time they had no desire to invade but we didn’t want any piece of them on there own territory.
Never invade Russia.
To quote Dimitry, from above: “Thus we have a mostly Russian-speaking, historically mostly Russian territory where most of the people speak either Russian (some of them with an accent) or a sort of Ukrainian patois called Surzhik, which is Ukrainian-sounding but with mostly Russian words (the overlap between the two languages is so great that it is difficult to draw the line between them). Supposedly proper Ukrainian is spoken in the west of the country, which had never been part of the Russian Empire, but it’s a dialect that is mostly unintelligible in the rest of the country.—In spite of this confused linguistic situation, Ukrainian was imposed as the language of instruction throughout the country. Lack of textbooks in Ukrainian and lack of teachers qualified to teach in Ukrainian caused the quality of public education to plummet, giving rise to several generations of Ukrainians who don’t really know Ukrainian, have had little formal instruction in Russian, and speak a sort of informal half-language. More recently, laws have been passed that severely restrict the use of Russian. For example, people who have never spoken a word of Ukrainian are now forced to use it in order to shop or to obtain government services.—The artificial, synthetic Ukrainian identity is too thin to give the country a sense of self or a sense of direction. It is a purely negative identity: Ukraine is that which is not Russia. The resulting hole in public consciousness was plugged by making a cargo cult of European integration: it was announced that the Ukraine was leaving the Russian world behind and joining the European Union and NATO.”
His attitude sounds much like the policy which Great Britian had toward Ireland and the Irish for centuries,
leading to almost totally stamping out the Irish-Gaelic language which was the true Irish language and then
imposing the imperial English language on everyone.—So we have all this complaining about that “much dreaded Ukrainian language” that it even exists.—The clear ultimate objective for Ukrainian identity is to restore the strength of the original often called Kyivan Rus and its heritage. Even the Ukrainian national emblem the trident hails from those days in the 900’s-1200’s. The Ukrainian currency “hrivna” comes from that period of time. The Muscovite Russians even instinctively admit that this heritage is not really theirs, so that they name their currency “ruble” from “rubaty” to chop off parts of the hrivna silver or gold coins,—and the Muscovite Russians adopt the two-headed eagle symbol of old imperial Byzantium, not the trident, as old Byzantium was actually a rival of Kyivan Rus and fought some wars with the Kyivan realm.—The first “khokhol” by hairstyle documented in history was none other that Great King Sviatoslav Ihorevych the Conqueror, notably campaigning against Greek Byzantium.—Unfortunately, starting with Great King Ivan so-called Terrible,—he forever broke away from the heritage of Kyivan Rus primarily by what he did to the city-state-republic of Nogvorod, one of the oldest bastions of Kyivan Rus and how he and his son exterminated the original population of that city (that would stand as one of his greatest crimes), not to mention his weird devil-worshipping cult of oprichhina. Most Russians refuse to acknowledge what a disaster his reign was, including that he murdered his one and only heir and son, put an end to the whole dynasty of Rurik or Ihor,—and following his death and all his depradations came the “time of troubles” when the whole Muscovite realm almost ceased to exist. Great job! But his example of rulership still seems to be revered out there. But we’ll have to see how everything turns out…
By the way, also, Dmitry Orlov mentions how the Muscovite Russian realm inherited the traditions of the Mongolian Empire,—but unfortunately Ivan IV Vasilyevich [the terrible] chose to imitate the very worst practices of the Mongols in wartime but the peacetime administration of the [not yet Muslim] Mongolians notable for its overall toleration of religions, ethnicities, languages, and being all in all rather enlightened,—was not imitated.
Great interview. Thank you.