Today I am opening yet one more open thread and I am offering this suggestion for a topic (not excluding other *related* topics from the discussion): what should the scope of the Russian reaction to a Ukronazi attack be?
Here, I will offer my own opinion in a short bulletpoint format:
- Russia should intervene within hours of any Ukrainian attack because leaving the LDNR forces alone will result in needlessly high LDNR casualties. Yes, they can probably resist very effectively, but the cost might be very high. Russia can help without any such massive loss of life.
- Early in the operation Russia needs to “lock” the airspace above the theater of operations (at least in the Ukrainian operational depth) and officially declare a no-fly zone.
- Russia should strike throughout the operational and even strategic depth of the Ukraine because the Ukronazi armed forces must be disorganized and decapitated. Key Ukronazi officials must be eliminated just like the Wahabis in Chechnia and Syria have been.
- Russian forces should stop at or near the current line of contact for a number of reasons including i) the fact that Russia has no moral obligation before the Ukrainian people who have to liberate themselves and not wait for Russia to do so ii) Russia has no need for a long counterinsurgency operation iii) Russia did not break the Ukraine and should not be asked to pay for its reconstruction iv) if Russia inflicts a severe enough defeat on the Ukronazi forces the country will implode anyway.
- LDNR forces, however, need to move as far as they see needed to establish a permanent international border (recognized or not, makes no difference) between the LDNR and the rump Banderastan. Russia should support LDNR forces by “maneuvers by fire”, EW, intelligence, control of the airspace and special operations.
- The entire Ukrainian Navy and Air Force (both admittedly rather symbolic and amusingly tiny) must be destroyed (including their support infrastructure). The Nazis must be disarmed, like Saakashvili has been in 08.
- Though it is unlikely that the Ukronazis would attack Crimea or attempt to breach the rest of the Russo-Ukrainian border, Russia should be ready to fully repeal even a major attack on these directions.
- Should any insurrections take place in cities like Mariupol, Nikolaev, Odessa and other, Russia should not openly intervene, but could use her considerable EW and cyberwarfare capabilities to disrupt the functioning of the local Ukronazi authorities.
- The radars of Russian coastal defenses and Black Sea Fleet vessels should all be switched to a targeting mode to make it clear to any ship sailing in the Black Sea that it’s lifespan is measured in minutes and totally depends on the goodwill of Russia. The same goes for the control of the airspace along/near the Russian airspace.
- Last, but not least, Russia should announce the total termination of any and all good exports from Russia to the Ukraine (including energy). Let them choke without the “aggressor’s” goods.
These are just some of my thoughts today, suggestions if you want. Now I would like to turn this over to you and see what you have to say.
I agree with everything that the saker has said today. And the only thing I would add in, is that Russia should immediately start offering lugansk forces new (old russian army) Russian weapons , T73b, antitank grenades, and tos flame throwers.
Burn them Nazis!
I am not qualified to discuss military strategy, but I am an expert in US propaganda, having swum in it my entire life.
I will say that anyone making suggestions that rely on Russia getting truth out to the public, or offering a corrective narrative, are living in a fantasy world.
The US controls the Mighty Wurlitzer of propaganda and they control the narrative. Remember when Russia brought the same little boy who starred in the propaganda blitz “Evil Assad Drops Chemical Weapons on Gouta” to the Hague? The same little boy whose face was all over the world’s news as ”victim” of Evil Assad testified about what actually happened in the making of that film.
And how did the Mighty Wurlitzer cover this correction of the false narrative? …….crickets
I also believe that Russia must attack now to destroy the armed ukonazis b4 Biden gains any amount of standing at home or abroad.
Russia should not invade Ukraine, but rather just do operational strikes to destroy the ukronazis military infrastructure immediately!
Once the Nazis war machine is decapitated, the Americans cant push them to instigate war. And the regular Ukrainian citizens can finally unite to throw out the Nazis oppression.
I don’t think that Ukraine is capable of collecting her strengths sufficiently to organize and perform a disciplined, structured, and effective invasion. Even if they attempt, I would expect it to be somewhat chaotic, inefficient, and minuscule.
In that case, what Larchmonter445 mentioned about using long-range artillery from Russian side (combined with EW) would be sufficient to give the advantage the Donbass needs to effectively defend itself. If things get too hot, establishing a no-fly zone (maybe not even officially but by simply taking down a few aircraft to send the message) over Donbass would be the next step.
I suspect Russia will do nothing beyond posturing and indirect operations. Nothing major. Nato will settle in Ukraine and the black sea will not be a Russian lake anymore. This will be a pathetic display of russian military might which is the best in the world but never used if the adversary is NATO or the US even if it is in the interest of protecting its immediate space.
We will se NS2 finally cancelled, after a failure to act who would have any respect.
We will see Putins power wane or replaced, Macron and Merkel would have won.
I hope I am wrong but I think this is a very possible scenario.
I would question the assumption, what seems to be the assumption, that Russia ought to “react”, as this seems to imply that the Imperial agents have the initiative. I am not so sure that’s the case.
It may be that the objective reality is that Russia has dominance and Strategic Initiative. And I observe that the Heartland agents, the Classical Empires, have made it explicit that the centers of control of Imperial Agents are targets…individuals. Anywhere. “Not necessarily symmetrical” (Lavrov, et al)
The question might then be “how should Empire respond?
Of course, it is also “highly likely” that the Imperial Junta is delusional.
Silence is golden.. for 99,9% of Western media, including Denmark!!!
Also in the Baltic Sea with that piping hot Russian NordStream gas line passing next to the island of Bornholm which belongs to Denmark.
From http://www.dr.dk – the official Danish radio/TV channels still NOT a SQUEAK about Ukraine or Russia.
However in the best BBZ-C (Brit Bullshit for Zionisme..)!!
3 articles covering the terrible Soviet bombing of towns on the island of Bornholm (south of Sweden and opposite to Germany & Poland in the Baltic Sea..) on the 7 May, 1945..
Many houses were destroyed/damaged and one little girl killed.
The Brits had officially liberated Denmark from German occupation by the 5 May but had no mandate for Bornholm. Furthermore the German Commander of occupied Bornholm, Gerhard von Kamptz, had not surrendered. As a consequence, the Soviets attacked and occupied the island until 05 April, 1946!!!
So we Danes know first-hand all about being occupied, annexed even being bombed with nukes!!!
OOhhh yess!! A US B-52 with 4 nukes on board crashed near the huge US Thule Base in North-western Greenland (Danish colony..) in 1968 and with typical Pentagon generosity 1 nuke bomb is still under the melting ice..
Of course Danish civilians were largely responsible for the clean-up operation and a large number then, strangely enough, passed away prematurely with various cancers!!! All heavy smokers.. what can you expect!!
Rest assured dear reader, we Lego-figure Danes have an extensive and deep knowledge of what is happening with Ukraine, Russia, Crimea etc., so there is no need to report it.. we have experienced it all ourselves!!
Although not the best political move, from a purely military perspective, Russia could exercise a pincer movement to the Dnieper River. Once completed, Ukrainian forces in the East would be surrounded. Odessa could then be taken cutting off Ukraine from the Black Sea.
Usaians spent a lot of money and effort in the Ukraine, in order to control the gas flows to Europe, for them to let NS2 be completed bypassing their plans. So they will do anything they can, even fight down to the last Ukrainian in order to achieve this.
But besides the volunteer battalions, is the Ukrainian regular army ready to become cannon fodder in a Fraternal Intra-Orthodox war ? I believe not, and early reports indicate that neither their military leadership is willing to make this sacrifice.
This is where Russia should focus, because in case the war goes hot and the loses on the Ukrainian side are actually as projected, they will truly have created a hostile nation on their border as most of the casualties will be conscript soldiers who probably don’t want to be there in the first place, irreversibly shifting the fraternal way most Ukrainians see Russia, fact that would be the greatest win for the Usaians, by far bigger than cancelling NS2.
Now that the masks are off and the Ukrainian military sees the big picture, can Russia help/sway/threaten the Ukrainian army to grow some balls, and take control of the situation in the country.
It would strike me odd that enough operatives did not remain post maidan in the Ukrainian army exactly for this kind of scenario, but maybe this is just wishful thinking…
Do you think something like this is possible ? Does Russia have any influence left post Maidan in the Ukrainian army ? Would they be capable/willing of taking control, disarming the battalions and restoring order?
Think this is the only way Russia can go forward in order to mitigate the situation on this front,and they should put every and all possible efforts in this direction.
Best regards from a Usaian protectorate.
The covert action by naval forces to disrupt and damage the Nord 2 pipeline should be met with similar covert action to remove the threat.
America should be told to look to it’s own affairs, chaos at home, and leave others alone. It is not for them to dictate who can do what and when. They are responsible for nearly all the death and destruction in the world these last decades, and certainly had a big hand in the situation now in Ukraine.
The people of the Donbas and Crimea should be left in peace under the administration that they chose, this is in the UN Charter which the Government of the Ukraine is not honoring.
Russia has had enough encroachment of it’s former territories, something the West PROMISED NOT TO DO when the Berlin wall fell, and Germany was reunited. They must fight or die; as a NATO dominated Ukraine would mean their end.
Russia should destroy all ukrinazis wherever they are. Should insurrections occur in Kherson, Marioupol Odessa etc.. Russia should support the russian natives of those cities. Russia should assure protection of all russiatalkers everywhere in Ukaine, and clean the whole country of all ukronazis and american/nato soldiers and such in the whole East bank of Dniepr until Kiev itself. In Kiev Russian should make prisonner all american officials and non officials who hide and work in the different ministries.
Russia should annihilate the ukronazi tchouma before it englobes and enslavecs whole Ukraine.
Russia could abandon Lvov Galicia and the northen Ukraine to all neibour countries who would agree
In any and all cases and scrnarios developped in the comments, Russia shoul act AS STRONGLY AND QUICKLY as possible, and make every effort to DEFINITELY DESTROY ALL UKRONAZIS un the whole Ukraine. If needed, use Kalibr, Sarmat and other strong amunitions as an advertisment to NATO. In Kiev, make prisonner ALL AMERICANS AND NATO’s forcesworking in the ministries.
Russia should show she is ready to ALL STRONG ARMED initiatives because red line has been overpassed
I feel there is a very effective way to stop this entire Ukronazi attack in its tracks. The Ukranians are merely the attack dogs of the Americans, who are throwing them into the meat grinder. The Americans, in turn, are merely the attack dogs of the Israelis. Thus, if you have an attack dog being sent after you, one does not try to deter the dog – one deters its master.
Russia could announce the following 4 measures:
1)Russia is working with Iran to provide them with weapon systems, paid based entirely on credit, no money down up front, to be provided to them immediately, starting with the S-400 (maybe even announce the S-500, even though its not considered for export, just to scare the Israelis.
2)Russia is considering fully supporting Iran’s legitimate peaceful nuclear program, by providing them with nuclear expertise, scientists, technical designs, etc.
3)Russia is considering immediately supplying Iran with hypersonic missles, which will allow direct dtrikes against Europe, the continental United States – anywhere, really.
4)Russia is considering placing Iran beneath its nuclear umbrella as a nonproliferation measure. If Iran possesses nuclear deterrence, they will have no need to develop a weapon! Announce plans to have Russian nuclear weapons in hypersonic missles placed inside Iran, under Russian control.
The Israelis will lose their minds. Through diplomatic channels, make it clear to them that these measures will only be carried out if things in Ukraine deteriorate. See how quickly the Israelis order their American slaves to back off. Even better, after such an announcement, if Russia ‘merely’ provides Iran with defensive weapon systems, Israeli politicians will consider it a win for them!
I would couple such announcements with statements regarding Russian ckncern for the possibility of this escalating to nuclear war – at which point Russia should begin outlining exactly what would happen to Europe and the USA in the event of such a conflict. Empjasize the fact that Russia could luterally cover every square inch of the EU and USA in nuclear fireballs, publicly announce the location of the underground bunkers the elites hope to hide in, along with the nuclear bunker busters that will be used to kill everyone inside. make it clear the private bunkers in New Zealand and elsewhere are considered legitimate targets.
The Western elite needs to understand that they WILL die. As they do not believe in God or an afterlife, and live only for power and pleasure in this world, they are terrified of death. They have no morals – one cannot deter them with calls to decency. They only understand one language – the language of force. Speak in the only language they will respond to. Is this all a dramaric escalation, and represent a discarding of most principles of diplomacy? Yes – but it is the west that has already discarded such basic standards. There are no diplomatic relatiins left to lpse. The important thing is to prevent conflcit – or, in the event of conflict, break the enemy’s will so it can be resolved quickly.
Russia’s message to NATO was to surface 3 nuke subs simultaneously through 3 feet of Arctic ice.
As my father used to repeat what my grzndfather White young cosack officer in the 1920 White army) used to say : make every and all effort NOT to make war, BUT, if youcannot but make war, THEN FIGHT WITH ALL YOUNG STRENGTH
The american approach would be: bomb them into the stone age.
They have the control of the media to prevent bad press.
The problem is: You break it, you bought it.
The greatest punishment would be to force the Ukrainians to live with themselves.
The objective is: Disrupt NS2.
Of course, NATO intervention would change everything.