By Sushi for the Saker Blog
A famous Sherlock Holmes story contains the following dialog between Holmes and Detective Gregory.
Gregory: “Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?”
Holmes: “To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.”
Gregory: “The dog did nothing in the night-time.”
Holmes: “That was the curious incident.”
A confrontation is taking place between two states over the alleged poisoning of a former double agent in Salisbury, UK on March 4th, 2018. A great many claims have been made. Few of those claims have been substantiated by evidence.
Since this incident appears likely to provoke conflict between two nuclear armed powers, it may be of benefit to apply the deductive reasoning of Sherlock Holmes to see what we might learn. It is certain the British people will not object to this use of logic and astute observation as employed by one of the UK’s most famous and revered characters.
The following article contains information culled from public sources. The intent is to engage the Saker’s readers in crowd sourcing the investigation of the poisoning of the Skripals. I have set out what I believe to be “accurate” or “known” facts along with hypotheses or conjecture. The reader is invited to comment and critique, or to add other public information known to them. It is hoped that this crowd sourced investigation may serve to ensure the integrity of the state agencies involved in this affair, and preclude the curious incident of the Skripals being used as a pretext to initiate further global conflict. Let us begin with a chronological summary of events.
Summary of Events
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. Skripal came to the UK in 2010 as part of a “spy swap” after he had been convicted by Russia of passing information to MI6.
Skripal’s daughter, a Russian citizen resident in Moscow, travelled to visit him at his Salisbury UK home arriving Heathrow at 1440 on March 3rd 2018.
March 4th at 1600 both Skripal and hid daughter were found semi-comatose on a park bench in the Maltings market area of central Salisbury, the police and ambulance services were called, and the couple were removed to Salisbury District Hospital where, as of March 18 2018, they remain in critical condition.
On March 12th Prime Minister May stated “Mr Speaker, on Monday I set out that Mr. Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a Novichok: a military grade nerve agent developed by Russia.” and “This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian State against the United Kingdom.”
Any unlawful use of force by one state against another implies an act of war. May issued an ultimatum to Russia provide a full explanation within 24 hours.
March 13th the Russian government issued a diplomatic note to the UK government rejecting any state involvement in the Skripal incident. Russia demanded the UK comply with the terms of the Chemical Weapons Convention to which both Russia and the UK are signatories.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3570734 (See Twitter note)
March 14th the UK expelled 23 Russian diplomats and/or intelligence agents, and announced other measures against Russia.
March 15th the UK intelligence agencies claimed the toxic agent had been placed in Yulia Skripal’s luggage prior to her departure from Russia and the contaminated luggage was the mechanism of delivery.
Friday, March 16th, UK foreign secretary Boris Johnson said that it was “overwhelmingly likely” that the poisoning had been ordered directly by Russian president Vladimir Putin.
March 17th Russia announced the expulsion of 23 UK diplomats and/or intelligence agents, and other measures against the UK.
These events have implications with regard to the conflict in Syria, the NATO build up on the borders of Russia, the Mueller investigation of President Trump, and the allegations against Trump contained in a document created by a former MI6 agent connected to both the creation of the “Steele Dossier,” and to Skripal.
In the next sections the attempt is made to “unpack” some of the extant reporting and attempt to determine the logical validity of that reporting. We start with Scenario #1.
Mode of Toxin Application Scenario #1
The Skripal’s sit on a Salisbury park bench and a mystery couple sidle up and spray the two of them with a nerve agent which immediately incapacitates them. The “mystery couple” then walk away.
Evidence and its Absence
Since the UK has an extensive network of CCTV installations there should be video evidence of the “mystery couple.” It should be possible to track this couple as they move through Salisbury both before, and after, the attack. No such video evidence has been produced.
SCENARIO #1 Conjecture 1
It is likely the incident was a team effort. In addition to the “mystery couple” there would have been other team members watching out for interference / observation by innocent members of the public. This surveillance team would follow the Skripal’s and advise the kill team of the appropriate moment to move in and deliver the toxin. No video evidence of such concerted team activity has been produced.
SCENARIO #1 Conjecture 2
The team activity described in Conjecture 1 requires communication between team members. This would likely involve radio transmissions and would result in a spike in radio transmissions. These transmissions may have been recorded. This is especially true if the public cell network was utilized. No evidence of such communications activity has been produced.
SCENARIO #1 Conjecture 3
Most nation states employ counter-intelligence agents whose principle purpose is the identification and monitoring of foreign intelligence agents. The UK government has expelled 23 alleged Russian agents. This confirms the UK has such knowledge. Known foreign agents operating within the host nation are typically kept under close observation. A team of foreign agents operating against the Skripals would have been detected. No evidence of active foreign agent involvement in the Skripal incident has been produced.
SCENARIO #1 Conclusion
There was no team of foreign agents present in the UK and operating against the Skripals.
Mode of Toxin Application Scenario #2
The toxin was hidden in Yulia Skripal’s luggage and she unwittingly introduced the toxic agent into the Salisbury home of her father. This new allegation obviates the need for an operations team on the ground in Salisbury and provides a convenient means to explain the absence of evidence outlined in Scenario #1.
SCENARIO #2 Conjecture 1
Yulia Skripal’s luggage was not found adjacent to the park bench on which the incapacitated couple were discovered. If the luggage was the delivery mechanism for the toxic agent, and if the Skripal’s did not carry the luggage with them on the day of the attack, then the luggage must have remained in the Skripal residence.
SCENARIO #2 Conjecture 2
If the toxic agent emanated from the luggage then it must have permeated the household in such a way as to be ingested/inhaled by the victims. If the house was not ventilated, this toxic atmosphere would have persisted over time.
SCENARIO #2 Conjecture 3
If conjecture 2 is correct then any other person entering the victim’s household would also have been subject to attack by the same incapacitating agent. There is evidence to support this conjecture. Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey drove from the park bench location where the incapacitated victims were found to the Skripal household, appears to have entered the residence, and became sufficiently ill he then took himself to hospital. He is still under treatment as of March 18th 2018.
SCENARIO #2 Conjecture 4
The following is a time-line of events of Sunday, March 4, 2018. The only firm fact is the time of the victim’s being discovered on a park bench in downtown Salisbury. The other events of March 4th have been culled from public reporting on the incident. The time estimates are my own conjecture based on a Google maps examination of the relative distance between the locations. The greatest uncertainty attaches to the travel time from the Skripal residence to the London Road Cemetery. Readers may have additional detail. If so please provide this detail in a comment.
Skripal Incident Timeline
REVISION DATE March 18 0028
TIME DATA FROM
UPDATED WITH DATA FROM BBC TIMELINE
0915 Skripal’s maroon BMW seen in vicinity of London Road Cemetery
The Skripals are known to have visited the cemetery which
contains the graves of Skripal’s wife and son.
1330 Skripal car seen driving down Devizes Road, towards Salisbury town centre
10 minute travel time from residence to the Maltings shopping district
1340 Arrive Sainsbury parking lot. Walk to Bishops Mill Pub
1415 ESTIMATE depart pub for 5 min walk to Zizzi restaurant
1420 Arrive Zizzi pizza restaurant
Skripal angry with demonstrated loss of emotional control.
1535 Depart Zizzi pizza restaurant
1547 CCTV capture of the Skripals on foot in the Maltings walk area
1600 Found on park bench in the Maltings walk area
Comatose, frothing at mouth, contracted pupils, vacant stare, convulsions
1615 Police summoned
1630 Police and ambulance response. Victims removed to hospital.
Time Budget Estimates
First Trip of March 4
Depart residence for London Road Cemetery and return
Estimated 15 minute travel time from residence to cemetery
Estimated 45 minutes viewing graves in cemetery
Estimated 15 minute travel time to return to residence
Estimated 0900 departure of residence for cemetery
0915 Skripal car observed in vicinity of cemetery
Estimated 1000 departure from cemetery
Estimated 1015 arrival back at residence
Estimated 30 minutes total car travel time
It is likely Yulia would have unpacked items from her luggage prior to going to sleep on the night of March 3 to 4. If the toxin was concealed in her luggage then it would likely have been released at the time of unpacking on the evening of March 3. The total residence exposure is therefore estimated to be in excess of 12 hours (midnight to 0900 on March 4) plus 3 hours in the residence (1015 to 1315) on return from the cemetery and before leaving for lunch in central Salisbury.
Second trip of March 4
Depart residence for the Maltings shopping district in Salisbury
1330 left house
10 minutes travel time in car
1340 arrive Sainsbury parking lot
1600 discovered on bench incapacitated 2 hrs 30 min after departing residence for the second time.
Salisbury Police Detective Bailey is reported to have been one of the first responders to the scene in the Maltings park bench area
Time Estimates for Bailey Exposure
1630 Bailey arrives on scene at Maltings park bench
1700 Bailey conducts initial investigation. Locates Skripal ID
1710 Bailey arrives Skripal residence and enters using key found on victim
???? Bailey becomes ill and drives himself to hospital
Estimated 30 minutes spent adjacent to victims
Estimated 10 minutes car travel to Skripal household
Bailey becomes ill after an unknown number of minutes in the Skripal residence
Bailey’s period of residence exposure is considerably less than the estimated 12 plus hours of residence exposure by the Skripals.
If the residence is the site of toxic exposure for both the Skripals and Detective Bailey why the differential response time to the toxic agent?
A number of assumptions are made. The first is that at the time of the first police response to the Maltings park bench area, Detective Bailey had no awareness of a toxic agent being present. He knows only that two people have been found incapacitated on a park bench with one of them having been sick and vomited.
It is assumed he searches both victims for identification and, once the ambulance has removed the victims to hospital, Detective Bailey then proceeds to the Skripal residence. When he arrives and gets no answer at the door, he enters using a key obtained from the victim and commences to search the interior.
At this point very little is known about the incident. Detective Bailey may assume the incapacitation is due to a recreational drug overdose. He would likely search through the house and its contents seeking confirmation for this assumption. If he did find evidence of recreational drugs he would then advise the Hospital medical team of the possible cause of the Skripals incapacitation.
It is not known how long Bailey was in the house before he became ill. If we reconsider SCENARIO #2 Conjecture 1 it becomes clear that the residents of the household would have been exposed to the toxic residence atmosphere for considerably longer than Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey. The Skripal’s had an estimated minimum 8 to 12 hours of residence exposure to the toxin but they only became incapacitated an estimated 2 hours and 45 minutes after departing the residence a second time for a total duration of 10 to 14 hours.
The evidence suggests Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey was overcome in a much shorter period of time. If the household environment was so toxic that Bailey was overcome within an hour or less, how is it the Skripals showed no effects after an exposure time in excess of 12 hours?
Scenario #1 the organized team attack may be discounted as no evidence has surfaced with respect to the activities of such a team.
Scenario #3 “From Russia with Luggage” may be discounted as it is awkward to explain the differential response to a household environment made toxic by bad luggage.
It is much more likely “From Russia with Luggage” has been concocted to explain the lack of evidence supporting the presence of a surveillance and kill team operating in Salisbury on March 4th 2018.
Such concoction supports the allegation that state agencies are acting in a deliberate way to create a new “dodgy dossier.”
In memory of David Christopher Kelly, CMG (14 May 1944 – 17 July 2003)
Glad to see the “alleged” word being used finally.
Very little of this adds up to anything evidence-based.
“Well if he didn’ Sista, then I don’t know who did Sista. Someone must of(sic) S’sta..”
The Skripals and Bailey are acting out a script, a dog and pony show that says, “See, they are frothing at the mouth. Putin did it.”
Rather than demand to see a sample of the poison, critical thinkers should demand to see the Skripals and Bailey.
The Russian government has clear right to interview Yulia. She is a Russian citizen incapacitated on foreign soil and is unable to represent her own interests at present. The Russian government has an obligation to intercede, act on her behalf , and confirm details of her diagnosis and treatment.
I understand that the Russian government has made a standard request for consular access to Yulia. This was denied, without any reason being given.
In a substantial interview yesterday, Maria Zakharova said that no one knows even where the Skripals are, let alone their state of health. And of course we have nothing but the British government’s word for the source of their alleged illness.
Everything stinks to high heaven.
Our local Imperial stooges, in the political and fakestream media sewers, have taken, in unison and obviously on instructions from their Masters in Thanatopolis DC, to gibbering the expression, ‘The International Rules Based Order’, whenever slagging off the Enemies in Russia, China, anywhere. It is, of course, hypocrite double-speak for ‘What Thanatopia Says’, and, oddly enough, Thanatopia and its stooges, like the UK, and Thanatopia’s own Boss, in Masadastan, all ignore International Law whenever and wherever it suits them. Illegal aggression and genocide (the Supreme Crime) in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Lebanon, Gaza etc.? No worries-the ‘Rules’ only apply to the ‘unExceptional’.
Exactly so. In a case like this, everything hinges on the reliability (or otherwise) of witnesses.
I would like to know how many people – and what kind of people – saw the Skripals showing the symptoms reported.
I cannot help wondering whether Detective Bailey’s sudden indisposition might have had something to do with the need to control his story and prevent him from speaking freely.
Has anyone (other than the authorities, who to my mind must be considered guilty until proved innocent) actually heard Detective Bailey’s account from his own mouth? If the reply is that he was too sick to say anything, how do the authorities know what he did and saw?
In short, we the public should be extremely careful and sceptical about everything we are told. We need to consider the source of each allegation, the position of that source and what they have to gain or lose.
unz website has a very useful collection of Craig Murray’s writings on this incident.
the latest is at the bottom.
Very interesting that there appear to be very close ties between Steele, of the phony, fake anti-Trump Russian dossier paid for by Hillary and Skirpal.
And I do think that it is a correct and proper question to ask to see Mr. Skirpal in public. There are parts of this that remind me a bit of the White Helmets charades. A very dangerous, worse than VX nerve agent has been released …. so we urge people to wash their clothes?????
washing clothing is really an act of destruction of evidence, shouldn’t it be handed to the authorities for investigation
It would be interesting to know if there was a change in Yulia’s attire on return from the cemetery and prior to leaving the Skripal residence.
Excellent deductions Sushi, Holmes would’ve been proud. It starts to become ‘elementary’ as to what questions need to be explored.
David Kelly. Yes indeed. This article admittedly from the fake independent media VICE News, – is not bad – can let more truth out when objective (Iraq’s oil back in $US and a puppet whose got too independent is disposed of, US bases established) achieved – is worth a read. Particularly last two paragraphs:
But Kuwaiti babies tossed out of incubators to swing First Iraq War in 1991 has most resonance in my memory- this all seems carefully crafted propaganda like then (which fooled a younger less sceptical me to support war 27 years ago)
As for adding to crowd sourcing public intelligence- the US Spy Thriller TV show ‘Strike Back’ was according to Moon of Alabama shown
in the last few weeks, with similar plot of those evil Russian spies using – wouldn’t you believe it! Novichok- the same rare nerve agent never heard of til the TV shows and sequel in real life Salisbury. Wow! Like a Jim Carrey awakening moment in the Truman Show movie! Life imitates art and now we’re all even closer to WW-III annihilation.
I have not watched the shows, but would be good if others do and comment.
What motive could Russia have? They would damage trust for future spy swaps, if they were lethally angry with Skripal he’d have had life in aRussian jail, not 13 years and then swapped, or a nudge in front of a British double decker bus anytime in last 10 years. As Putin said today after election victory when asked about the Skripal poisoning – Russia had no motive with elections and World Cup approaching.
Hopefully this is about boycotting and spoiling World Cup, not propaganda to bring the sheeple into line with dutiful Russophobic views to suppress dissent for full on war with Syria or Donbas.
David Kelly is important here as he worked at DSTL Porton Down. His tragic end made clear to all public servants what occurs should you attempt to speak truth to power when those with power have already decided to promote a dodgy dossier.
MUch the same holds true with these events.
Re Dr Kelly;
I think the Government were more concerned with what Kelly would disclose re; Israel nukes.
He accompanied David Cameron back in 1991 to go buy 3 for the Tories;
“As late as 2003, Tony Blair used this “tale” to back what Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg calls “the illegal invasion of Iraq.” Blair had financial incentives to back the invasion, several million of them, as secret letters leaked to the press but never printed have shown.”
“The long and the short of the story is that two British Agents were intimately involved in this criminal enterprise under the direct orders of Margaret Thatcher: David Cameron, junior minister and confirmed MI6 operative, now Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and Dr David Kelly, deceased, believed most strongly to have been deliberately murdered because certain people were worried that what he knew about the Tory Nukes would come out when he testified to the fact that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction.”
I don’t think the Luggage scenario can be discounted on the basis of what you have said above. Assuming the L hypothesis to be true, the poison would be placed in a sealed container inside the luggage. Luggage is not likely to be hermetically sealed, and the killer(s) presumably did not want all their poison to leak out en route.
Assume that the poison container was opened by one of the Skripals just before departing for the shopping mall. The poison begins to leak out, but they leave soon after opening the package or container. Their exposure would have been relatively small, and not taken effect immediately. In the time between the departure of the Skripals to the mall and the arrival of the police detective, the poison continues to diffuse from its container, increasing the concentration of the agent in the dwelling. Thus, the police officer is overcome relatively quickly.
Thus, the L hypothesis is not disproven.
While the truth of the L hypothesis would make the involvement of Russians in the Skripal poisoning likely, it would by no means prove involvement of the Russian government. Private motives of revenge from ex-KGB “comrades”, spiteful mothers-in-law, criminal gang activity, etc. are all on the table.
Have you received any NBC training? I have, while I served in the military. As has been stated many times, even in the media, a drop on your skin is enough to rapidly disable you and, if an antidote isn’t rapidly administered, kill you in very short order – shitting, pissing, vomiting, blurred vision, difficulty breathing, etc. The descriptions given by the instructors were necessarily specific to motivate the rapid application of the antidote – via a self injecting syringe slapped into one’s thigh, if the first application doesn’t work, do it again with another. If a colleague is afflicted apply the antidote to him, don’t touch him unprotected.
A hermetically sealed container in the luggage would definitely attract the attention of airport security in these troubled times. Sorry, agent in the luggage just doesn’t fly.
There is an obvious chain of custody issue relating to the luggage. Once the bag was checked in with the airline in Moscow, it was not controlled by Skripal’s daughter until after it cleared customs in the UK. If she had a connecting flight to Salisbury, it was not under her control until she collected her baggage there. Anyone–anyone–could have inserted a poison pack in Russia or in the UK.
But if there was a poison pack of some kind, I do not recall the British government noting it. If it did exist, it must have existed in the luggage, in the house or on the persons of Skripal or his daughter. Where’s the source of the poison?
Of course, this is all academic. Theresa May desperately needs the US if Brexit is to work. The US is utterly amoral. Propaganda is about the only weapon the US is good at using. The US wants to demonize Russia to get a good cold war going. Otherwise the US economy will tank. Therefore, . . . . QED
By this time, the UK authorities have had plenty of time to search the luggage. They could have by now easily produced evidence that this was the means of attack. For example, they could show a container of face cream that has been doctored to contain the nerve agent.
This is one of the dogs that has not barked during the night.
Assuming the doctor who placed them in the recovery position and administered first-aid and other bystanders are not part of the fake event (and also perhaps the Skripals themselves) then I submit that Novichok had nothing to do with this at all and samples from Porton Down will be submitted as ‘evidence’ especially that in the suitcase from Russia.
Where are the pictures of the ‘Novichoked’ threesome purportedly in Salisbury District Hospital. Are they really there?
Salisbury District Hospital doesn’t look much like a military level chemical warfare decontamination facility with negative pressure isolated air and filters etc. on wards. How could they handle an event requiring chem warfare response?
I submit that there is no Novichok at all or it or some substitute organophosphate was added afterwards by the military chem warfare specialist hordes in hazmat suits -those next to the firemen and police with zero protection.
I agree on there being no Novichok and also agree that a commercially available organophosphate was likely the toxin utilized. A follow on article is in the works.
I would like to submit that there are obvious parallels between the Skripal case and the reported poisoning of Kim Jong Nam (Kim Jong Un’s exiled half-brother) in Kuala Lumpur just over a year ago.
Note that it was alleged Kim Jong Nam was killed by VX. Following Theresa May’s odd logic, as VX was first developed at Porton Down, the UK government should have been the primary suspect.
More important, note that although two women – who supposedly were conned into it – were arrested and imprisoned for the murder, neither they nor the victim showed the expected symptoms of poisoning by VX or any other military-grade nerve agent.
All three were able to walk, talk and otherwise go on living for at least hours after the “poisoning”. If VX was detected on or about Kim Jong Nam’s person, it seems likely to have been added after he was poisoned by some other, slower-acting agent. As in the Skripal case, it seems possible that there never was any “nerve agent”, as only the authorities made that assertion.
And of course there are the “chemical weapon” false flags in Syria, which have occurred repeatedly. Always when the terrorists had their backs to the wall and the Syrian government was making fine progress against them. Always uncriticially jumped on by Western government and MSM, who immediately blamed “Assad” and Russia without any attempt at a proper investigation. (In the case of Khan Sheikhoun, for instance, OPCW never even sent anyone to the site of the supposed attack. How on earth they could pronounce on what was done without going within a thousand miles of the site beggars belief).
Note also that in all cases, Western governments have immediately denounced whatever government they happened to dislike, without waiting for proof and without disclosing any of the evidence (if any even existed).
One would also have expected some illness and contamination amongst EMT/first repsonders and the emergency room personel.
When the people were first brought in, they’d have had no idea that they were dealing with a nerve agent. As the author points out, likely the detective was searching the house looking to see if they could lay charges of recreational drug use. The first responders would have been reacting normally to sick people coming into the ER. No hazmat gear or anything like that. Just normal gloves and probably not even the little paper filter masks.
Thus, if the nerve agent was in any way on the bodies or clothing of the Skripals, one would expect to have had further cases from the first responders and ER personel who treated them.
And otherwise, it sure seems slow acting for such a strong and dangerous nerve agent. Apparently its supposed to be something in the house that they left behind hours before they became sick. They ate at a resteraunt, but so far no evidence that they were feeling ill at the resteraunt. But sometime later they both suddenly fall ill on a bench in a shopping area. And of course, the searches of the house which I’m sure by now would have been throughly conducted have turned up no evidence that they can show the world of the source of the nerve agent.
The whole thing has a very White Helmets feel to it, as EMTs and ER doctors wear no hazmat gear and treat the victims of this super-dangerous nerve agent with no ill effects.
Nice summary of the events and thanks for compiling it.
Normally, when presented with a crime, police try to establish a motive, and in reality the Russians had no motive other than petty revenge (which could have been extracted far more easily when Mr. Skripal was spending years in a Russian prison). Who actually did have a motive? Anyone who wanted to further target Russia for sanctions and/or international approbation. The CIA and MOSSAD come immediately to mind.
Who had access to the weapon used? Any reasonably competent chemical weapons lab could have created it, from what I have read. The closest lab to the crime scene was of course right there in London. The lab from which the chemical was originally invented was in Uzbekistan, I believe, not Russia (though created by the USSR), and Americans had access to all such HAZMAT when they were deconstructing the lab in the wake of the break up of the USSR. Thus, the two most likely candidates would be the USA and the UK. IOW, the CIA and MI6.
What physical evidence is available? Here it gets even more murky, because none of the evidence has been released to the public or even to the Russians via diplomatic channels, and thus we can’t really say much other than we await the release of said materials.
But if we have no release of any of the physical evidence how can anyone draw any realistic conclusions? Of course they cannot, yet somehow, in the Orwellian world we have inherited, that doesn’t stop top level “diplomats” from taking a hard line stance against Russia and even going so far as calling it an act of war. It would be laughable if the possibility of a shooting war wasn’t one of the potential outcomes of this farce.
And here I haven’t even mentioned the obvious flaws in the official theory: that it’s much easier and more certain simply to make a man disappear (especially one without any bodyguards!) than it is to stage this elaborate Bondian method of killing. I’m tempted to suggest that lowering the couple into a tank of sharks with laser strapped to their heads, Austin Powers-style, would have been just about as good an idea as relying on a suitcase laced with a deadly compound in a public area.
One thing is for certain: whatever nonsense the zionazi quislings claim, and what the zionazi gay media rattle on about, these will be disinfo. They would not make any claims that could lead to exposure of their culpability, they will present scenarios that will lead people away from the source and how/what was actually done.
Prime Minister May and under cover agent Boris first stated that Mr. Skripal and his daughter were poisoned by Novichok of Russia and after that they were really poisoned or vice versa or simultaneously ?
This is an elementary question to start with.
If we are to believe this “assassination” attempt was a genuine one, then it was certainly messy and ill planned, hardly the kind of professional hit you’d expect from a State agency:
1. It was executed in an uncontrolled environment, in a public space, in daylight.
2. Since there was apparently no motive to kill the daughter, so she was collateral damage.
3. The police officer was also collateral damage, and others too.
4. It was attempted while the daughter was visiting and present. Why have family around?
5. The public were too close. They could have interrupted the assassin.
6. Why a nerve agent? Why a volatile, extremely dangerous to handle, chemical?
7. The assassination attempt failed ! Can an assassin be such an amateur???
8. The entire bizarre story is right out of chapter one of some fictional British spy novel.
If “the Russians (or some other Agency) did it” it would be professionally executed, a clean kill, using a simple quick reliable method, done in private after dark with no witnesses, no chemical residues or other traceable evidence remaining for investigators, no family members around to complicate matters. And an assassin would never leave the job until he had confirmed that his intended victim was well and truly, 100%, dead. None of that applies to this charade.
An Alternative Theory
Perhaps we’re overlooking another possibility. Perhaps the intense focus on the elusive “poison” and the timeline are red herrings.
Perhaps the fact that the “victims” didn’t die on the spot is one of the keys. Skripal and his daughter didn’t die because there never was any toxic agent. No humans were harmed in the making of this movie!
It was a false flag, remember?
Skripal and his daughter were the quintessential “crisis actors”. Skripal himself made a public scene in a restaurant to deliberately attract attention, which is strikingly similar to a scene with the identical intent in an actual Sherlock Holmes (Jeremy Brett) TV episode. Then they both took a non fatal drug to simulate a poisoning, sat on a park bench, at which point Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey showed up on cue to act out his role.
The presence of the daughter is the other key. For reasons we don’t know, perhaps Skripal agreed to act in a false flag charade for the benefit of the State’s anti-Russian agenda, conditional upon his daughter being a part of it (or perhaps the “Agency” insisted on it) so the two could subsequently appear to have died (away from the glare of the spotlight of course), while in reality they fly off into the sunset to some idyllic remote place away from the British weather, together with their new identities and a substantial sum of money of course, so there would be no abandoned daughter remaining to ask awkward questions and make embarrassing accusations at a later date.
It will be interesting to see if Bailey (also likely a crisis actor) conveniently survives so he can tell his tale to the media… which will surely confirm the official story.
Yeah, I know. No evidence. Just pure speculation!
Agree with all of your points as they are important ones.
This was a poorly planned and sloppily executed attempted assasination. To call it amateurish is to be kind. Clearly Putin washaving an off day when he was planning out this operation.
But why would a man who demonstrated such mastery of the events in Syria prove to be such a fumbling incompetent when it comes to this curious Skripal incident?
1 – The toxic agent is binary, so the application could have been dual staged;
ie; part 1 before the park, part 2 at the park.
2 – Three (3) people were contaminated, the Skripals and Det. Bailey.
3 – Who authorized Bailey to enter the private Skripal residence?
Putting together the facts, it seems Bailey could have conceivably carried the other binary component, contaminated the couple, then went to their home and contaminated it as well, then he was checked-in for DE-contamination.
4 – Why was Yulia separated from her father and whisked away by helicopter while the father was taken to a hospital? Did she know or see something critical to the foregoing.
These events happened too quickly, contamination, arrivals at the scene, home inspection, helicopter, stories, and more BMW stories now.
This is an ill conceived frame full of holes.
The binary agent can’t be mixed “in the victim” as it were – it needs to have ingredient A added to ingredient B, and then resulting chemical C is applied to the victim. Which also makes the luggage claim somewhat dubious – once the chemical has been prepared, it becomes lethally dangerous. Such weapons kill very quickly, and are volatile in the prepared state – so couldn’t be simply placed “in a suitcase” or even planted into face cream etc. If that had been done, the entire luggage area would be contaminated, handlers, etc poisoned, and the daughter dead within half an hour of picking up said luggage. It is completely preposterous – and can be clearly seen to be so by the reaction of all Russian government members. There is zero fear or guilty signs – just a total contempt and incredulity that anyone could attempt such a stupid story. More likely is that the officer saw something he shouldn’t have and was “dealt with”. Until either Skripal, his daughter or the officer is seen in the flesh, speaking to an interviewer, their deaths can be assumed. We all remember the whole melodrama of Litvinenko in the hospital after mishandling “suitcase nuke” materials meant to frame the Iraqi government – until the hilarious “spiked umbrella” story straight out of a bad spy novel came along.
Alka-Seltzer. Pop one in the mouth and start foaming.
Plop plop fiz fiz
Right you are, all they had to do is watch some Hollywood movies.
“Then they both took a non fatal drug to simulate a poisoning…”
A non-fatal drug that could have been as simple as some common hand soap!
The only problem with the fly away and live somewhere undetected is that you need the victims to die. Whilst they are all, according to the propagators of this story, still alive, when they recover they can in theory be interviewed about their experience or perhaps give evidence to a court, inquiry or parliament. Although it seems that they are being conveniently kept away from the public gaze at this time this cannot be sustained forever if they recover.
we all miss the obvious… they were filming the next James Bond Blockbuster… with hidden Cameras of course.
FX courtesy of the UK gov.
Very excellent analysis, that unmask all the oddities of the official British declarations.
What they say is so contradictory, as it is stupid even to think of a sort of “Putin revenge” against a “cold spy” after almost 10 year from his release and just weeks before the Russian Presidential Election and months before the FIFA World Cup in Russia: only the blind, orchestrated and malicious Main Stream Media campaign can, for now, try to obscure all that.
What happened has clearly other motivations. And all inside the western circles.
In this regard, and in light of the conclusion of your analysis, let me put further “conjectures”.
-0- The Skripals decided to poison themselves for psychological reasons.
-0a- The Skriplas were accidentally poisoned by spoiled food they eat.
In both cases the British spy agencies decided to exploit this fact to promote the western anti Russia Hysteria: being all due to an “accidental fact”, this explains all the oddities of the hasty organized “nerve” agent spread.
-1- The Skripals were poisoned by “rogue” agents of western spy agencies in order to exploit the granted outroar against Russia created by the MSM to force the GB government and its allies to assume a still stronger russophobic posture.
-1a- The Skripals were poisoned by agents of British and other western spy agencies in a planned operation in order to exploit the granted outroar against Russia created by the MSM to justify the GB and western powers government to assume a still stronger russophobic posture.
That explain why they do not want anybody to contact them to tell what happened, and, if this is so, I fear for their lives: they serve their scopes dead, not alive.
-2 Sergei Skripal was never a “traitor”, or, he was, but, thanks to the “visits” of his daughter, he was convinced to become a mole for Russia, and, perhaps, already providing to her some valuable information to bring back home… (on the Trump dossier?…).
In this case all was organized in a way to exploit the anti Russia hysteria (spreading the supposed “novichock” nerve agent) while catching them.
That explain why they do not want anybody to contact them, and, if this is so, I fear for their lives: if they are non “convinced “to “confess”, they serve their scopes dead, not alive.
All of the hypothesis appear to discount the effects of any nerve agent. Very clearly no one who is involved understands the effects and timings of nerve agent exposure. We can assume the dose was sufficient to cause unconsciousness so it was at least a moderate amount and not a minimal exposure. The mode of exposure is important. Liquid versus vapor (these are not actually a gas but vapors). Topical skin application causes immediate loss of muscle control of the affected area which then disseminates throughout the body ultimately involving the CNS. This causes CNS effects including nausea, vomiting, loss of bowel control, pinpoint pupils to the extent to cause effective blindness, and involuntary massive exudates from tears, nose, mouth etc. Ultimately death occurs from loss of muscle control of the diaphragm. I have seen no reports of any of those effects. The timing is important as these effects occur immediately. There is no way a person could operate a vehicle (much less for 12 hours) after an exposure.
A vapor exposure (now being claimed to be in the car ventilation) would have similar effects but starts with the eyes, nose mouth and proceeds accordingly. Ultimately with the same effects. If atropine is administered quickly death can be avoided. It is likely that it was too late given the timing of the discovery of the victims and when the ambulance arrived. It is not reasonable to assume an ambulance paramedic crew to assume nerve agent poisoning unless all the symptoms I described above were present. Again, we have no evidence this occurred.
The Porton Down laboratories was within a short drive (6 miles from the point of discovery) and they have a very sophisticated treatment center on site which specializes in treating all agents present at the facility. PDL works with all agents including biological and chemical unlike the US which separates them (Fort Detrick for biological and Aberdeen Proving Grounds for chemical). Although, there is now a Homeland Security Laboratory at Fort Detrick which can handle all suspected agents. Fort Detrick has a sophisticated BSL-4 clinic (at USAMRIID) for treatment of victims. The same is true at PDL. Yet, they weren’t taken there and still remain at a relatively unsophisticated medical center.
Recovery from agent exposure is usually fairly rapid and certainly would be by now although the cholinesterase levels will remain low for 4 to 6 weeks. They should both be conscious by now. No one seems to have bothered to go interview them yet.
So, we have a conundrum about the timing of the two main victims and the detective. I am wondering is it usual for detectives to search a victim’s home immediately without an apparent search warrant? Again, it is strange. I can not come up with any scenario which explains all the evidence except that it is all faked but by people who have no clue other than watching television shows.
“Very clearly no one who is involved understands the effects and timings of nerve agent exposure”.
Which leads me to suspect the involvement of people who were perhaps carried away by the apparent “success” of previous false flags alleging chemical weapons use. The attack in Kuala Lumpur passed off fairly well, and was used to stoke up fury against Kim Jong Un. The “attacks” in Syria have uniformaly been blamed on the Syrians and Russians, and no public challenge or refutation has emerged.
Given that the people in question are political – possibly incompetent spooks, suggesting that Johnny English is not altogether fictional – they might have ignored the advice of qualified experts, as such people always do.
I am wondering is it usual for detectives to search a victim’s home immediately without an apparent search warrant?
I live in a common law jurisdiction similar to that of the UK. For cases in which safety of life is in jeopardy the police are typically allowed some latitude with respect to what otherwise be construed as an unlawful search.
My presumption is that Detective Bailey acted on the belief he was faced by some form of recreational drug overdose and that he proceeded to the Skirpal residence to obtain confirmation of this fact and, if possible, identify the drug used so as to assist the Hospital in treating the victims.
There is MSM reporting of people on scene in the park bench area who describe the incapacitated couple exhibiting sign which matches the SLUDGE criteria. Since these reports came from civilians unlikely to have prior knowledge of either nerve agent effects or SLUDGE, I find it likely they are accurate.
“contaminated luggage” – are you serious ? What about the possibility of customs inspections ??
Nothing but a false flag attack, which many people have difficulty believing. I would not be surprised if the perpetrators now regret pulling off this foolish stunt. It has not done any harm to Russia, but plenty to Britain.
Uk is not releasing information but usa is…says 38 affected expects more..hhmmm.how…I do urgently wait for the FSB criminal investigation..meanwhile BJ says uk has acted in “punctilious accordance” with requirements of OPCW ( haha but laid presumption of guilt first we know)but Russia has been tardy to respond….
Really appreciate this timeline article Sushi congrats on the initiative…..powder should be all over the car…clothing…probably adsorbed through the lungs internal wet surfaces.. but if dust would they have sneezed then inhaled more…coughed spluttered…did they sneeze in restaurant blow their noses on handkerchiefs napkins..no contamination found at restaurant has been enirely swabbed????Fallen off clothing onto floor seats coatracks menus doormat cos that is where people wipe stamp feet dislodging clothes particles??????
“Uk is not releasing information but usa is…says 38 affected expects more…”
I think it may have been last Friday when I shopped at Waitrose and thus got a free copy of “The Times”. (I wouldn’t pay for it, if only because it is immoral to give money to Rupert Murdoch; but when I can get a free copy I like to do the Sudoku and read the columns for a laugh and to see what the enemy is saying).
There was a short letter from a doctor at the hospital in Salisbury where the Skripals are supposedly being treated. he said, in no uncertain terms, that no one had been admitted with symptoms of nerve agent poisoning. (He did not specifically except the Skripals or the policeman, but that may have been because he took them for granted. Or not). I was astonished that they published it.
That letter from the treating physician is a critical item of evidence.
The letter states that no person is being treated in Salisbury Hospital for nerve agent exposure.
Salisbury Hospital is the reported location of both Skirpals and Detective Bailey.
1) Physician is deliberately making understatement to avoid creating public alarm.
2) Physician is aware of the difference between a true military grade nerve agent exposure and a case of poisioning by toxic material similar to a military grade nerve agent.
I believe both 1) and 2) are true with strong emphasis on # 2)
There would surely have been panic stations at the hospital itself over the news…
I presume the idiots who staged this left the consequences of naming a public hospital as the alleged treatment centre for HAZMAT out of their calculations..
Leaving it to a member of staff at the hospital to reassure the hospital staff and patients that the contaminated duo were not in fact admitted..
Hence the Times is permitted to walk things back a little..
I’ve written an extensive overview of this, so you’re welcome to browse through:
SCENARIO 3: Car vents
1:30pm They drive down a short distance into the centre, and park their car.
4.15PM they are found unconscious in a park, near far from where their car was parked.
An updated timeline of events has also been issued:
3 March 2.40pm Yulia Skripal arrives at Heathrow airport on a flight from Russia.
4 March 9.15am Sergei Skripal’s car is seen in the area of London Road, Churchill Way North and Wilton Road.
1.30pm Skripal’s car is seen being driven down Devizes Road, towards the town centre.
1.40pm Skripal and his daughter arrive in Sainsbury’s upper level car park at the Maltings before going to the Mill pub
2.20pm They dine at Zizzi restaurant.
3.35pm They leave the restaurant.
4.15pm Emergency services are called by a member of the public and police arrive at the scene within minutes, where they find the pair extremely ill on a park bench near the restaurant.
The oddity in the story is the fact that the police officer wasn’t a beat plod, but a Detective Sergeant, who apparently was among those first to respond to the incident was also taken ill and remains in a serious but stable condition in hospital.
The office-based detectives don’t respond immediately, as an ordinary on the beat police, on the scene but come afterwards.
6 March Boris Johnson threatens World Cup boycott if Russia behind spy incident – a very premature statement unless he meant ‘when’ instead of ‘if’.
The Russians are by now celebrating that they won’t have to host a bunch of absurd British royals and other government related British twits during the world cup. :)
I don’t think the Russians had anything to do with this incident, but having the official Brit delegations stay home during the world cup has to be regarded as a positive side effect.
Maybe if the Russians get really lucky, the overrated and usually ridiculous British football team will stay home. If so, this will remove what has been a constant security problem at every international tourney held in Europe for the past few decades … how to deal with the crowds of violent British football hooligans that always follow their bad football team. I seem to remember earlier tournaments that always tried to schedule the Brits in remote stadiums where security could be enhanced in order to deal with the large groups of British hooligans.
Okay! I appreciate the concept, using the community brain trust to resolve (what appears to be) machinations of the empire.
On superfluous variables:
It is clear to all escapees and otherwise contributors mentally free from the empire’s perception management that the possibility of the ‘event’ being an actual, planned [somewhere in the Russian special operations agencies] to succeed, can be easily discarded as a reasonable possibility.
To be perfectly clear, the Russians would never have attempted this operation with the objective of ‘payback‘ or otherwise advancing state interests, nor even as a personal vengeance killing.
Of the original binary alternatives: A. the Russians want to get a job done right, and B. the U.K./their masters, want to discredit the Russians, to further isolate them, and build [presumably] some kind of an advantage against them, possibly war, only b. a outright false flag event is reasonable to consider.
I offer a third alternative, in these days of global international collective, based on a culture of hatred against all x-group people: C. a ‘rogue element within the Russian agencies initiates a plan purposefully to discredit Russia, in alignment with objectives of the empire to discredit Russia, mostly in the eyes of the citizens of the empire, in order justify extreme activities on the global stage.
I must admit, the story is so ridiculous that even b. seems beyond incompetence, but, hysteria is the order of the day in the empire’s top shadowy, neurotic executive branch.
Other angles of investigation
Police services agencies typically operate under fairly specific mandates and procedures, while I don’t know specifically the protocols of the agency in question, (maybe some readers here do), the description of the actions/activities of Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey (I have to admit, for some reason, even the name of this person makes me suspicious, i.e. the Old Bailey – just an intuitive reaction – DX)
Questions: (very trustable compared to ‘answers’)
1. what are the operational protocols of the police agency, and did DS Bailey follow them?
a. on scene and reporting the incident – what was the time and contents of the first call into dispatch?
b. on entering a ‘victim’s’ residence without a warrant – this seems a bit sketchy, that he got the address and the key from the ‘victim’ and went over there to have a look around, alone?!
c. was there any due diligence/court order issued?
d. what is the protocol for forced entry into a ‘victim’s’ home under such circumstances?
2. timing of suspicion of some kind of exotic poisoning agent in the case?
a. how was the determination made that this was some kind of an exotic poison agent?
b. what was the range of timing that the use of some kind of exotic poisoning agent was involved, and by that time, what EMS/medical personnel would have been exposed?
c. again, what are the protocols/procedures for this type of scenario in the National Health Services?
I revisit the unlikely, yet viable scenario C. above – unpatriotic and subversive elements in Russian agencies plan ridiculous scenario to discredit Russia
If this were the case, might we see indications of some kind of activity on their end?
Certainly they would keep this quiet, as they would want to avoid this coming out for obvious reasons, however, we might have indications of Russian payback against the organizing motive actor(s) behind the subversion within the Russian agencies; we can keep an eye out for this kind of unusual decisive actions, which might, or might not be observable.
I hope this helps.
I couldn’t help but to notice that the UK political police (aka counter-terrorism) were immediately given command of the investigation. This and the other death of the somebody who knew somebody who knew a Russian oligarch.
One can be very assured that the counter-terrorism squads are very political and under control and only tell the public and the press what the government wants to tell them. That’s their typical role as the government decides to spin some attacks as being evil acts of terror and other attacks as quickly being dismissed as being non-terror.
Also, I can not help but to observe that a year or so ago, the tabloid press and the goverment would have taken this and been screaming about those awful ISIS terrorists and how we need to bomb Assad in response. What little we know about this in terms of actual evidence fits that bit of spin just as well as the current spin job being produced.
Sadly … I can imagine with option C…things might continue to prove that since the election Putin feels even more resurgent assured determined to undermine the west EU anybody so called democratic institutions… whereas as Gilbert Doctorow has just reported on RT that every detail was followed to ensure that every voter felt they were needed (including incapacitated peoples in Crimea where he was an observer)….Putin having a meeting with his opponents to explain his vision of what is next and to listen to their viewpoints…..shames the west?
Compared with sky continuing to give interviews with widow Litvinenko about what must be done to control Putin…..where is Bill Browder what is he up to…what did he say to UK committee the other day…FSB what are you doing?
JJ, the loathsome Browder is on Australian Government controlled, but Murdoch run, ABC, quite often recently, getting the full bottom-kissing adulation one would expect from those Murdochite presstitutes. The swine get quite heated demanding we institute a ‘Magnitsky Act’ in this slave state, too.
Just to add another thought regarding “dodgy dossiers.” Apart from the Steele Dossier of current fame, I recently corrected my memory of the infamous British “dodgy dossier” on Iraq, which is to say that I realized that there were actually two of them. The first was in (I think) September 2002 and is the one with the famous “45 minutes” claim and the second was the one that Colin Powell cited at the UN in February 2003, which had come out about a week earlier. Glen Rangwala whose great work on the WMD claims (with many hyperlinks to what the inspectors’ reports actually said contrasted point by point with the prevailing war PR) had been looking into it from the get-go, and so immediately following Powell’s speech was able to show that it was substantially composed of plagiarized passages from two journal articles which had appeared in the early 1990s. Rangwala and a co-author wrote a retrospective on this latter affair in an article for Global Research a few years ago.
So, to get to my point, it is interesting that ‘plagiarism’ has also come up with regard to the Novichok script, given that the latter has parallels in a recent TV series. I wouldn’t want to push this too far at this stage, but it should be noted.
Occam’s razor suggests the “agent” was made in Porton Down and intent was that Mr S would transfer it to his contact, the daughter, who was supposed to deliver the stuff for a “hit”, perhaps n Russia, They spilled some… Perhaps that was the idea…
But I stick to the idea that the entire affair is total BS…and the “affected victims” are eating cookies and drinking beer, laughing = and perhaps wondering what’s next…as they cannot be permitted to emerge…can they?
If they are officially dead, or as good as, then the British and US governments cannot afford to have their living state ever get out into the news.
Only one certain way to prevent that… to make them actually dead. And disappeared. (Like, for instance, Osama bin Laden – or whoever the poor unfortunate was the SEALs killed in his place).
Tom, are you implying that the Skripals will be ‘buried at sea’?
Sky news reporting a silver pick up truck used by a person to collect the daughter from the airpirt is to be examined by OPCW …bizarre? How about the aeroplane…whole of airport ..how did she get to the airport? Check ins…luggage handling or carry on luggage…..any refreshments at airports ….meet anyone….when last saw boyfriend or was present at her “usa” employment…
I’m now calling the UK foriegn minister by a new name …. BoJoke.
I know Novichukchukchuk is a substance that is only known from books, but does anyone have any idea as the normal time frame between exposure, sickness and death.
I don’t normally think of ‘nerve agents’ as being slow-acting.
Since Novichukchukchuk may be fictional, does anyone know of similar time frames for VX nerve agents. And we are told that Novichukchukchuk is many times stronger than VX, so I would presume that means that the effects of this much stronger nerve agent would be faster.
I would expect that weapons designed for the battlefield would be designed to be fast acting. A weapon that makes soldiers sick days later is not as useful. The use of such weapons on a battlefield is that they are a opening blow for an attack. Thus, a fast acting agent can be deployed with the expectations that the enemy will be sick and incapacitated soon afterwards, thus weakeing the defenses for a following offensive. A slow acting substance that gives the enemy time to move medical resources in to treat their soldiers as well as one that gives the enemy time to move reserves into the point of attack is obviously less useful in warfare.
And of course, all of these agents are absurd as a means of assasination. Spies have always gone for the sort of things that can prick a passer-by and have them later to have what appears to be a heart attack. No assasination attempt wants to put up big giant signs that so-and-so was assasinated with a big trail leading back to the culprits. That of course is exactly the opposite of what spies have always done in the past.
If someone wanted to send a message by an assasination, an American gangsta style drive by shooting is far more effective. Or the also American gangsta style of kidnapping someone and then having them found later having been horribly tortured as a message to others is effective. This later happens to be exactly the technigues used by American death squads in Latin America over the years when they want to send a message to pesky democracy and justice crazy peasants.
‘… whose principle purpose is …’ is WRONG . Right spell is: ‘… whose principal purpose is …’
Principal means primary, main. Principle means concept, idea.
This is a common mistake; it is the second time it happens in the blog. It is easy to correct, though.
Excellent, I applaud your last sentence. It’s so telling.
Although not quite on the novitchok subject, I would like to remind everyone on the methods used in Greece since 1950. Usually they would drive over someone simulating hit and run accident either by motorbike or a car. Usually done to political opposition. Or, sending the said opposition (aka dangerous communists) to some desolate island and make them vanish. Actually one french socialist/communist director made a movie regarding
the assassination of a communist hero Lambrakis (can’t remember director’s name, sorry). Actually there is also a song dedicated to that fact titled “to gelasto pedi” – “smiling boy”
I was thinking about my post and I concluded that the post was incomplete. The method described above was good for domestic audience, when there was no need to pin the event on any outside party. Hence the current methods can hit two birds with one stone. Firstly, like in this case blaming this event on Russia undermines Russia’s position as signatory to prohibition of chemical weapons as well as white washes the West’s dirty use of those weapons even though they are signatories to those agreements as well. Secondly, whitewashes dirty intentions of promoting hot conflict with Russia. By the classic “Russia did it”, we are only defending ourselves.
The BBC timeline has the Skripals arriving at the Zizizizi pizza restaurant at 1420, and then Skripal getting angry about something at Zizizizi’s, and then leaving at 1535, observed by CCTV on the way to the park bench at 1547, and then found on the park bench at 1600, incapacitated. I would think Holmes would wonder if there was some connection between Zizizizi’s Pizza and the poisoning, since the CCTV footage apparently doesn’t show Boris Badenov and Natasha Fatale shadowing the hapless Skripals. I suggest the following scenario:
Skripals arrive at Zizizizi’s at 1420. By 1500 their pizza and chips have still not been delivered to their table. The impatient Skripals start pounding on the table and singing “why are we waiting?” Angry waiter delivers pizza, chips, and beer to table at 1505. Skripals wolf down pizza etc., leave at 1535, walk along promenade, feel queasy, and sit down on convenient park bench, where they’re found comatose and frothing at the mouth. Conclusion: irate Zizizizi pizza cook has spiked the pizza sauce with something. Evidence? Having eaten pizzas before, I can testify that it doesn’t take an hour and 15 minutes to eat a pizza.
Nazcalito, don’t they have a rule “20 minutes or it’s free”? Obviously, pizza place was waiting for the “spice delivery” before they could serve “it” to the Skripals.
If the Skripal’s had been in contact with even a minute amount of nerve agent at home, or in the car, they would have been very nauseous and would not have felt like eating pizza.
They may have handled the binaries of the nerve agent at home, and accidentally slightly contaminated their hands. The pizza, eaten by hand, could possibly result in the binaries entering their systems, resulting in the activation of the nerve agent.
How were the Skripal’s able to access the binaries?
These could have been destined for Russia, produced at Porton Down, to be used in an ‘ I S I S terrorist’ attack, just before the presidential election, to stymie Putin’s election. This would have been couched by the West as just payback for Russia’s support of the ‘tyrannical Assad who poisons his own people’. A terrorist attack of this nature could also force the allocation of another country to host the SWC due to security concerns.
Actually ingesting a binary would most probably also make a person very ill. This may explain why the Skripals have not died.
Was the restaurant a usual haunt of Skripal? Poison administered through food is not unusual throughout the world of murder. I’d be most interested to hear the stories of all those present at the restaurant during what would have been a memorable incident involving an outburst of rage. One doesn’t need much of some alkaloids to create SLUDGE symptoms. A trace in a beer glass will do. I’m not ascribing any murderous attempt by the restaurant or its employees but I am suggesting a third party could have intervened clandestinely to introduce a poisonous agent. The police sergeant could have been poisoned by other means to create a diversionary red herring.
One rather odd coincidence to be found on twitter
As 2 twitter users put :
For 20 years almost nobody heard of #Novichok. Then in Nov 2017 in a UK TV drama a Russian scientist used it to kill his colleagues. Just weeks later, UK alleged was used on #Skripalhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Back:_Retribution …
Coincidence? Perhaps, but which most UK media have avoided any mention of
I found the episode and extracted the clip.
Is the UK govt for real or are we all watching a reality TV show? #Novichok #Skripal #Propaganda @2ndNewMoon @marcelsardo @RussianEmbassy pic.twitter.com/DoIpa6gqru
TV Clip link below:
According to Craig Thomas Iran has produced Novichok.
Is it possible that this was all a ‘joint effort between Russia and Iran’, that Iran has been ‘stockpiling’ it and this will be grounds for the planned US/Israel invasion of Iran?
First mud sticks best so vitriol and smear towards Russia was a success and of course Russia was ‘complicit’ by ‘developing’ it.
Boris will say “So sorry, it was Iran all along with Russian help”, and there is the manufactured consent from the ever gullible public.
This means war!
Just one question: is it in any way confirmed that anyone was poisened at all and the part with “found on the park bench immobilized” actually happened? Just want to know, since so far I saw no evidence of that important detail – maybe I just missed it though.
I do seem to recall any further evidence puic statements from the medical person who responded but is not affected…
another post on saker today on hoax thread refers to a doctor as head of ER at Salisbury writing letter today to the Times….only 3 people have been treated for poisoning.
You are using 5 very suspect sources of information, none of which can be trusted: bbc, telegraph, sky, independent & (British) gov. Any lies/disinformation/misinformation/errors/exclusion of crucial evidence etc can be contained therein. Just like with 911, Iraqi WMD BS, MH17 etc, the MSM pushes the Western Governments lying narrative.
Regarding the dog which did not bark, this applies to buSHIT when he was sitting in the classroom on 911, and when andy card came in and whispered in his ear words to the effect of: ‘sit still, keep your dumb mouth shut, don’t move and don’t panic’, instead of america is under attack, the ‘dog which did not bark’ of course, was the SS which did not immediately and instead of card, rush in, grab him and remove him fast from there.
The narrative on that days was that they claimed not to know what other terror attacks were coming, including any on the pres: better safe than sorry. That’s what dickhead cheney claimed happened to him. Also the pathetic lie that they didn’t want to upset the children is just such satanic BS as to be almost enough evidence of their guilt.
As it was, buSHIT also lied twice that he had seen the first tower struck by the airliner ‘live’, when, of course, there was NO ‘live’ broadcast, it was subsequent (the 2nd attack was shown live); and which tv station would be broadcasting ‘live’ the North Tower, for what reason??? And further, who would be watching, of all the other channels which were?
You are using 5 very suspect sources of information, none of which can be trusted: bbc, telegraph, sky, independent & (British) gov.
But I believe what we call “reality” or”truth” as some degree of internal consistency that can be percieved by human beings.We appear to be able to detect fraud and mis-truth regardless of the high office of the liar or the pedigree of the newspaper owner.
I also think that the “lies” and deceptions have a way to pointing out the truth. Deception typically has a motive behind it. Examine a sequence of deception and it should be possible to extract something close to the truth. This process is helped when a large number of eyeballs view the same set of alleged facts. Hence this article.
Errr.anyone got contact details for cyberberkyt peoples…looks like we could do with their assistance now…UN rep from Russia says he has a list of 200 references to the “chemical” being used etc outside of Russia…maybe they can trace things communications …this still can go critical……
Well.. if Turkish criminals can get hold of illicit 1.4 kgs of radioactive Californium…..
The whole incident as reported in the media is almost identical to a scenario played out in a recent TV spy drama – Craig Murray has the details. This is similar to some of the highly theatrical, almost Hollywoodesque, ‘executions’ carried out by ISIS. There were parallels in Turkish spy melodramas screened earlier. So we have ‘reality’ mimicking ‘art’ or is it ‘art’ mimicking ‘art’
Agreed. It is pointless to speculate on what may have happened until – corpus delicti – the feckless police produce proof that something happened. Until then,all this speculation is playing into their hands, as well as the well informed denials.
Someone said about Hollywood stars ‘All PR is good. It keeps you in the public eye.”
I suggest Russia state that until evidence of a poisoning – both the sample and the daughter – are produced, there will be no further comments, and to repeat the same every time the slander is repeated.
It would be interesting to do a similar examination on the ‘police’ response to this incident. It would go something like this.
Both bodies found in an unconscious state. Police and ambulance are called by onlookers in regard to a possible drug overdose, nothing more.
The first police to arrive should be uniformed members. They see signs that indicate abnormalities such as the frothing at the mouth. They would also do an identification check on both persons. Any request on identification on Sergei Skripal would immediately raise alarm bells, and members of something like the Special branch would be notified immediately and they would then take control of the situation.
We are not told to which branch Detective Bailey is attached to, but it must be one of the ‘Specials’.
This now raises another conjecture. Yulia has just arrived from Russia to visit her ex-spy/double agent father. What does MI5 and Co. normally do in such situations? The couple would normally be watched by the ‘dogs’ until such time as everything appears normal. This is routine surveillance procedures, but there is nothing.
And then ‘Detective Bailey’ not only drives to the Skripal residence, but he also enters that residence alone without corroboration. That is leaving Bailey open to a number of possible insinuations.
So the next aspect to consider is that if ‘Detective Bailey’ was the ‘first responder’ then the police had advanced warning as to who the ‘drugged’ couple were.
And the CCTV videos didn’t show any of the dogs following Sergei and Yulia Skripal? I wonder why?
Then there is just one other thought. If one of the dogs suddenly saw their ‘subjects’ keel over in a drug attack, what would they do? If it was unexpected they should do a panic. If it was expected they would simply walk away.
There are interesting development in UK government’s line on what it knows about this incident. Some of you may know already about these changes and some not so if you want please check this link :
On top of this European Council issued the fallowing statement: ..”it takes extremely seriously the UK Government assessment that it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible for the March 4 attack and ask for “full and complete disclosure of its Novichock program to the OPSW”. Of course there in no evidence to support the accusations except …”we have information indicating…”. My question is (actually one of them…):why in the hell an entity (Russia in this case) will blow its secret program by killing a useless exspook? In my opinion all this is intended to isolate Russia and eventually to eliminate Russia from UNSC as a rogue state. I suspect also that in Eastern Gouta there are trapped many “advisers” from MI6, CIA, MOSAD and other NATO “trainers” which Russia and Syria, this time, will not allow them to escape and all we see now is a blackmail and presser to assure these advisors will not be paraded for everyone to see them and most importantly to prevent them from talking. I am anxious to see how Russia will respond to all of this…Cheers
The story has changed again, with the poison/ nerve agent/ whatever now being “in the ventilation system” of the Skripal car. So how did Bailey become contaminated? And why didn’t the ambulance people who were at the park bench for longer?
We can expect more of these stories to appear.
They are like a smokescreen to divert attention from the absence of logic in the official narrative, which is unravelling fast.
The official response will be more bluster and endlessly repeated allegations without evidence. The Russians did it – everybody knows that. May said so/ Johnson says so/ Trump says so/ The Sun says so, etc.
This was a staged incident. It was quite elaborate, but flawed in conception and execution, relying on hysteria and confusion for its effect.
The British State/ Deep State/ MI5/6, were responsible, possibly with some involvement by Russian oligarchs with links to Israel and Ukraine, both of whom could also have supplied the substance used. But the prime responsibility must lie with the British State.
The presence of Porton Down 7 miles away is unlikely to be coincidental. It may have been the source of the substance used, and the control centre for the operation. The objective was to create a false flag for political purposes, not cause mass casualties.
The agent used was probably not a lethal nerve agent. There were no deaths. It was some kind of non lethal incapacitating substance. This may have been for the safety of the operatives responsible for administering the agent, rather than moral qualms over the deaths of innocent bystanders.
How was the agent administered?
The most common method would be by aerosol spray from an attacker. This method was used a number of years ago by Israeli agents in an attempted assassination of a Hamas leader in Jordan. The target was sprayed and incapacitated and taken to hospital in a critical condition. The agents were arrested, and Israel was threatened with their execution for murder if the man died. Netanyahu, who was in power then, provided the antidote and the man survived. A similar method was used by Israeli agents to carry out a successful assassination in Qatar.
This would be a likely scenario. The Jordan operation involved at least 2 attackers, the Qatar operation a team of several people. But it seems unlikely that there is any CCTV or other evidence to support this, hence the stories about the luggage/ car ventilation system. Yet it remains a possibility.
Poisoning of food/ drink at the restaurant? Possible, but unlikely. The attackers could not have known if, or where, they would have a meal that day. They might not want anything to eat after the emotional effect of visiting the graves of the wife and son. They might well have preferred to go home. It is hardly likely that intelligence agents would have obtained jobs as chefs or waitresses there on the off chance the Skripals would go there to eat. The restaurant scenario can probably be ruled out.
The luggage scenario. Somebody introduced this agent into Yulia Skripal’s luggage in Moscow. Possible, but that seems a haphazard and possibly ineffective method of poisoning. It was more likely to harm her rather than the father, and may have left him unscathed. Though it might account for the contamination of Bailey. If this was some luggage item, it took a long time to take effect.
The car ventilation system. This is now being touted as an alternative, but it has the appearance of a diversion or clutching at straws. It wouldn’t account for the contamination of Bailey.
There might be some other method of administering the agent, but nobody has suggested one that makes sense.
Alternative explanation. This was an elaborate charade. Nobody was poisoned. The victims at the bench may or may not have been the Skripals, or 2 actors who were playing a part. Bailey may or may not exist, or may just be staying out of sight. There have been no photographs of the alleged victims, no convincing updates as to their condition from doctors or hospital spokesmen, no interviews with relatives.
Who was “in on it”? Probably MI5/6, the Deep State, and maybe some foreign involvement. Would May and Johnson and the British Government as a whole be aware of the operation? Possibly, but unlikely. They are probably being played, in the knowledge that once they have committed themselves to this narrative, they will continue to support it no matter what happens. Openly admitting that they had been played, even if they later suspected this, would be inconceivable.
The motivation may provide further clues. A revenge attack by Putin/ FSB on a totally irrelevant, washed up, pensioned off ex traitor, can be ruled out. The operation serves a number of purposes, and it may be a case of killing several birds with one stone. Vilification/ demonization of Russia. Disrupt the Russian elections and World Cup. Make it easier to renew sanctions, which expire shortly. Sabotage the construction of Nordstream 2, and obtain a market for expensive US LNG worth tens of billions. Probably these and other reasons.
But I don’t believe this is the main motivation. That can be summed up in one word – CORBYN. The Deep State, Chatham House, MI5/6 are terrified he will become the next P.M. It was casually assumed that he was unelectable, but that was before Trump and Brexit. May called a snap election recently, and conventional wisdom had it that Corbyn would be wiped out and May might get up to a 200 seat majority to negotiate Brexit. But it didn’t work out that way. May is a weak and unpopular uncharismatic figure, leading a mutinous and disaffected party plotting her downfall. Brexit is looking increasingly shambolic. Suddenly Corbyn looks like a more credible figure. The bookies are giving them evens odds, level pegging. The prospect of a Corbyn premiership terrifies them. (It terrifies the Red Tories in his own party even more.)
There is a long history of similar intelligence activity domestically, directed against Harold Wilson and left wing figures, politicians and trade unionists, in the 1960s/ 70s.
So my money is on an elaborate hoax, no nerve agent used, no injuries, carried out by MI5/6, Deep State, and some other parties with a primary objective of undermining Corby, who is Putin’s Puppet, a Kremlin Stooge, or simply disloyal, who cannot be trusted to keep the country safe, while May is built up as a Thatcher/ Falklands type figure, bravely standing up to Johnny Russian and evil Putin.
Sorry to ramble on for so long. I’ll be interested to see what other people come up with.
Most people who are trying to untangle this “mystery” proceed from an assumption that this “attack”, indeed, occurred. It seems to be a given in their analysis.
I believe that the only reasonable approach that needs to be adopted is: no body – no crime.
In jurisprudence this principle is known as Corpus Delicti.
“Corpus delicti (Latin: “body of the crime”) is the material substance (such as the body of the victim of a murder) upon which a crime has been committed (Merriam Webster dictionary)
Thus, until and unless the bodies of “the Skripals”, the alleged victims, are produced, any analysis is just a waste of time.
Finally, if Great Britain still subscribes to the notion of “the rule of law”, it should, first and foremost, proceed from presumption of innocence. Since it apparently doesn’t, how can it consider itself a civilized country where the said rule of law is supposed to reign? It seems that the leaders of the country (where, by the way, that notion had originated !!) that violate this fundamental principle should be called out on it.
Analysis is not a waste of time, although I understand your frustration. The vilification and propaganda game is afoot, instigated by the deep state, 3 letter agencies, government authorities domestic and foreign and the de facto ruling military industrial complex etc..
As such the inconsistencies, implications and nonsense must be exposed.
What about food poisoning at Zizzi’s?
The picture of the Skripal’s seated together in a restaurant was supplied to the media by ‘east2west news’
How did they aquire this photograph?
There is no information to be found on east2west news. They supply a lot of original photographs to UK and Ukraine media but have no website and there is no information on them. They supply a lot of the required photos of the correct Russian for anti Russia articles.
Search terms to find the pictures they supply- ‘credit east2west news’ ‘picture east2west news’ ‘image east2west news’
It wouldn’t make sense placing the nerve agent inside the suitcase of Skripal’s daughter because there could be no absolute guarantee that she would not be stopped by airport customs. A thorough examination of the suitcase at the airport arrivals could have had deadly consequences. Also, If Skripal and his daughter were sprayed with the nerve agent while sat on a public bench, surely members of the public would have noticed the “RUSSIAN SECRET AGENTS” wearing their big green protective inflatable nerve agent suits, unless the agents themselves were on a suicide mission. This confirms how stupid some people are taken in by this pathetic charade.
It wouldn’t make sense placing the nerve agent inside the suitcase of Skripal’s daughter because there could be no absolute guarantee that she would not be stopped by airport customs. A thorough examination of the suitcase at the airport arrivals could have had deadly consequences. Also, If Skirpel and his daughter were sprayed with the nerve agent while sat on public bench, surely members of the public would have noticed the “RUSSIAN SECRET AGENTS” wearing their big green protective inflatable nerve agent suits, unless the agents themselves were on a suicide mission. This confirms how stupid some people are taken in by this pathetic charade.
“It is likely Yulia would have unpacked items from her luggage prior to going to sleep on the night of March 3 to 4. If the toxin was concealed in her luggage then it would likely have been released at the time of unpacking on the evening of March 3.”
No-one here has noted, the Novichok is a ‘binary’ agent.
It comes in two parts, both quite safe in themselves, but deadly when mixed. This is obviously how it was ‘transported’.
If OPCW have stated it will take two weeks plus, to reach a decision, who and how did it only take two hours to assess at the hospital?
By 8 o’clock the following morning, world press were informed; 1. What it was [Novichok] 2. Who was responsible.
They also failed to report, America cleared out the Uzbekistan Laboratory where it was last manufactured in 1999!
If the ambulance crew came to the scene in proper attire, why would the policeman go into their home without protective gear? I do not think the ambulance came with protective attire.
The most recent ‘doorknob’ theory suggests both Skripals handled the knob. Not only that, we are referring to an outside knob and a departing couple (almost ‘dearly departing’ in this case). Why would either of them have touched the outer doorknob at all, let alone both? Or maybe one touched and then they held hands? In any case, there was then a three-hour delay before they fell ill. That in itself is incongruous. Different bodies react in different ways and over different time-periods to any type of intoxication (think alcohol). And the longer the time interval, the greater the time-discrepancy between the victims.
The idea that they would both fall ill on the same park bench, so choreographically time-sychronised that neither one was capable of sounding the alarm might past muster were they poisoned at that spot, but three hours earlier? No, the reactions should have been differentiated in time by various factors to do at the minimum with three: the means of contamination in each case, the age, gender and state of each body and the amount of toxin ingested in each case. Imagine poisoning two people (or one hundred) and then, at the appointed hour, they all drop dead together, instantly. Impossible. Far more likely they ate a pizza with an extra topping they hadn’t ordered.