Okay, so tonight we have the name of the assassin, it is Mevlut Mert Aydintas, a 22 year old policeman who had been recently fired following the anti-Gulenist crackdown of Erdogan against the forces which had attempted to overthrow him recently. We also have a very useful video of the murder.
That video of the attack also shows something very important: the only shots fired are those fired by the assassin. See for yourself:
What this means is one of two things:
Version 1: there was nobody in charge of security at this exhibition
Version 2: the room where this murder happened was considered ‘safe/sterile’ because it was inside an outer security perimeter which we don’t see in this video.
I find version 2 far more likely. That would also explain why and how Mevlut Mert Aydintas so easily got it: he simply flashed his police ID and was let through.
When such an event occurs it is also important to ask cui bono – whom does it benefit?
I see absolutely no imaginable reason why Erdogan would want the Russian Ambassador murdered in Ankara, but I can easily imagine a long list of reasons why he would not want that to happen at all. Some will correctly say that the fall of Aleppo is a humiliating defeat for Turkey and Erdogan, and I agree. But I would remind everybody that Erdogan clearly had a deal going with the Russians and the Iranians when he moved his forces across the border and occupied northern Syria. There is *no way* he would have risked such a move against the will of Moscow and Tehran. So what was this deal? We will probably never know, but it clearly included a provision which limited Turkey’s actions to a narrow strip in the north. If that hypothesis is correct, then Aleppo would have to be considered outside the “Turkish sphere of interest” in Syria, at least by the tripartite Turkish-Iranian-Russian understanding. Did Erdogan know that Aleppo would fall and would fall so fast? Probably not. It appears that Erdogan got outmaneuvered by the Russians and the Iranians. But he most definitely had better options to retaliate against the liberation of Aleppo than to have the Russian Ambassador murdered in Ankara. The fact is that the Turks did precious little when Aleppo was liberated, at most they helped the Russian evacuate part of the “good terrorists”.
Even if Erdogan is a lunatic, he is smart enough to understand that if he has the Russian Ambassador murdered in Ankara NATO will do nothing to protect him and that the Russians can fire a cruise missile right into his bedroom window. Erdogan might be crazy, but he is clearly not *that* crazy.
Finally, let’s remember the disastrous consequences for Turkey following the shooting down of the Russian SU-24 and the fact that, by numerous corroborated accounts, the Russian intelligences services saved Erdogan, probably literally, by warning him of the coup against him.
So, for all these reasons, Erdogan is not on my current list of suspects. Never say never, new facts might come to light, especially with a maniac like Erdogan, but right now I will assume that he has nothing to do with what happened.
Daesh & Co? Maybe.
Well, it is rather obvious that the Daesh & Co. had an extremely long list of reasons to want to kill a high profile Russian official. So yes, they sure had the motive. Considering how successful radical Islamist extremists have been at penetrating the Turkish deep (and not so deep) state, Daesh and Co. also had the means. As for the opportunity, the video above clearly shows that not only did Mevlut Mert Aydintas have the time to shoot the Russian Ambassador many times (I counted 9 shots), but after that he still had the time to just stand there and scream all sorts of slogans about Syria, Aleppo and God. While we don’t know all the details yet, this is already very strong evidence that security at this event was dismal.
Gulen, the CIA, Obama & Co? Maybe.
Yes, they are also on my list of suspects. The Gulenists have nothing to lose, the CIA has gone crazy with anger and fear at the election of Trump, and the Obama Administration is full of angry, offended, deeply vindicative and otherwise plain nasty characters who would love to trigger a new crisis between Russia and Turkey or make the Russian pay in some way for humiliating the AngloZionist Empire in Aleppo. Keep in mind that this is exactly how the CIA always kills foreign dignitaries: by subcontracting the murder to a local fanatic so as to preserve what they call “plausible deniability”.
During the Cold War the Soviets and the Americans had an unwritten understanding that “we don’t kill each other”. It was never formally mentioned or otherwise acknowledged, but I assure you that it was real: neither side wanted an open ended escalation of assassinations and counter-assassinations. But today’s CIA is a pathetic joke compared to the CIA of the Cold War, and with hodge-podge of mediocre dimwits now in the Executive branch I would not put it past some idiot in Langley to approve of the murder of a Russian Ambassador. Besides, if the Americans were crazy and reckless enough to attempt to overthrow Erdogan, why would they not try to murder a Russian Ambassador?
What about the lone gunman hypothesis?
Well, it is impossible to prove a negative. Mevlut Mert Aydintas did lose his job in a recent purge, he did have police credentials and his actions on the video seem to be a textbook example of the kind of fanatical behavior a lone nutcase would display. So yes, it is possible that Mevlut Mert Aydintas acted alone. After all, all he needed was a gun and a police ID. Let’s see what the Turks, and the Russians, find out about him. Still, I doubt it. That kind of personality is usually identified by state sponsoring terrorism and then activated when needed. My gut tells me that he did not just act alone. Somebody probably used Mevlut Mert Aydintas.
Here I really hope that I am wrong, but if I want to be honest I have to admit that I am completely unable to find an excuse of the lax security around Ambassador Andrey Karlov. And I am not referring to the Turks here, I am referring to the Russian security services. Here is why.
Even if we assume that the Turks had told the Russians that they had established a ‘safe/sterile’ perimeter around the exhibit and that the general public would not be let in, the footage shows what appears to be only a few guests, there is no excuse for the Russian not to have at least one bodyguard in the immediate proximity to the Ambassador. Turkey is not only a country at war, but Russia is a party to that war, the Takfiris have made a very long list of threats against Russia and, finally, Turkey is a country which has suffered from terrorism for years and which has just suffered a bloody attempted coup. In a country like that a top official like an Ambassador should have been protected by an entire group of bodyguards, but in this case there was clearly nobody. Oh sure, the Russian can blame the Turks for having set up a crappy perimeter, but as professionals they should know that the Turks are already having extreme difficulties in dealing with their own terrorists and that following the massive purges the security services are in a state of chaos. Would one bodyguard have made a difference?
Yes, possibly. Probably in fact.
From the video it appears that Mevlut Mert Aydintas was standing about 5 meter behind Ambassador Karlov when he opened fire. Apparently, not a single of the shots hit the Ambassador’s head. If Ambassador Karlov had been wearing a flack jacket or any other type of body armor he would have probably survived that first volley of bullets (unless one hit the cervicals). One single bodyguard could then have easily killed Mevlut Mert Aydintas and evacuated the ambassador to safety. Evidently Karlov was not wearing any kind of body armor that day. Why? He did not have a single bodyguard next to him. Why? No Russian voices are heard on the video, so there appears to have been no Russian security anywhere near the ambassador. Why?
Normally, ambassadors are a very easy target. Everybody knows them, their routine is public and, contrary to what many seem to think, most of them have no security detail. I am absolutely amazed that more ambassadors are not killed regularly. In high risk countries, however, ambassadors are normally protected, especially ambassadors representing countries involved in a war or who are likely targets of terrorist attacks. True, as a rule, the Russians, including diplomats, tend to be more brave/reckless (pick the term) than their western counterparts: they don’t scare easy and they like to show that they are not afraid. But that kind of attitude needs to be kept in check by professionals.
Frankly, it makes me angry to see how many Russians have been killed by that lax attitude towards personal risk and security. Yes, it is very noble to be courageous, but to die killed by a manic is also plain dumb. I would feel much better if Russian officials and politicians would be a little less courageous and a little more careful. Because what happened today begs the question: who will it be the next time?
What happened today is a tragedy made twice as painful by the fact that it could probably have been avoided. The Turkish security services will probably arrest overnight pretty much anybody and everybody Mevlut Mert Aydintas has ever met, and they will get lots of confessions. I am pretty sure that they will share a lot of that data with the Russians, if only to show how sorry they are. Alas, both the Turks and the Russians have an long tradition of secrecy and we might never find out who, if anybody, really was behind Mevlut Mert Aydintas.
The only thing I am sure of is that Putin will do nothing harsh regardless of who is behind this murder. If it is the Takfiris, then the people involved will die in the next couple of years. If the CIA is involved, however, the Russians will be much more careful and might chose to act in a very different way, possibly through the next Administration. The murder of Ambassador Karlov will not succeed in derailing the Russian and Iranian efforts at getting some kind of a regional solution to the war in Syria, nor will it change the Russian determination to prevent the AngloZionst Empire of turning Syrian into yet another Takfiristan.
As for Russia and Turkey, as long as Erdogan remains in power they will continue to try to collaborate against the odds and in spite of deep and fundamental differences. Neither Russia nor Turkey, which have fought each other in twelve wars, have any other option.
The cameraman filming this obviously murder, did not fear for his life, he just focussed on getting the best pictures!!!
not necessarily, he was using a tripod and autofocus. he probably ran and left the camera turning
This is what leads me to believe it was Turkey that did it – they are supporting jihadists to over throw Assad. The policy hasn’t changed!
Turkey gave weapons, medical care to Alnusra and many supporters live in Turkey. The were protesting the other day
Erdogan base of support is these jihadis.
He is not rational and this was his sick attempt to derail peace talks – he doesn’t want to be involved in peace talks in Syria – his radical supporters don’t want him to either.
He hoped Russia would break ties – but Russia was on the phone to Iran and turkey to keep peace talks in Kazakhstan on track. Russia are thinking of the big picture
When the Russia investigators go to Turkey wait and see what help Turkey gives them. This will be a clue to their sincerity or evidence of their double dealing
Add to this a few more things. Synchronised protests in various European cities and on the Turkish border against Russian and Syrian conduct in Aleppo (which is fake news). Protesters are largely Turks. Then the UNSC vote on the evacuation of Aleppo (Syrian UN ambassador complained it was about getting foreign operatives out of the area). Then the apologist talking point in western media that has started to emerge re this shooting reflecting Turkish feeling about Aleppo.
nonsense- those protests were staged for the camera-
In Turkey protests were real, not staged.
Wanted to put this comment near the top:
Ambassador’s funeral with open casket. So for those disrespectful individuals claiming it was a flase flag and there was no blood etc. Here you are – he did die. Now show some respect to his family and friends who would just like to mourn his death with some dignity and peace.
Just shows he’s a good cameraperson.
I did a little bit of amatuer photography for street protests in the US in the early 2000’s. You do get to the point where you focus on getting the shot, getting the photo, and little else.
Just my limited experience, but I suspect if you check if professional photographers and camerapeople, especially those who cover wars or other violent and quick moving situations, that you’ll hear the same from them.
The one thing that struck me in what happened was how long the assassin had on the stage after he began shooting the ambassador. Not only long enough to fire multiple shots, but then long enough to stand there and shout slogans.
These days, in an assasination, one seems to expect to see a much quicker response. Often an attacker only gets off one or two shots before being either wrestled to the ground or shot by security guards.
No comment on what that means. Its just what struck me as unusual about this tragedy.
Exactly my thoughts. And I agree with Saker about lack of security. Lack of security by Russians. You don’t have your top diplomat in a country such as Turkey without at least one bodyguard on duty all the time. Extremely irresponsible.
I was also struck by the length of time the assassin had to spew out whatever he wanted. Does not make sense. I agree with Saker that the lack of security is just baffling. I’ve been to similar events (in countries at peace) and there is always some security around the ambassadors. To leave Amb. Karlov completely exposed is just bizarre – particularly given the whole war situation. Do not think Erd. had much to gain by this murder – and he’d certainly not do it in Ankara (if he were inclined to do it). But there may be some within Turkey, who would try to undermine Erd. (or at least embarrass him). I also fault the Russian secret service – they should know by no that Turkey is the epitome of “the weakest link,” and anything can happen there. When will the Russians finally learn to expect only the worst from their so-called partners?
According to the latest news – the murderer refused to go through the x-ray and showed a police ID & the security guards at this point let him through:
An observation on the timing and possible narrative, but not a conclusion:
This occurred on the day which it was apparent that Trump would get the vote of the electoral college, ending hope that the Clintonians/neocons-libs would stay in power, so if there were to be an attack on Russia ans a breakup between Russia and Turkey there would no longer be a path within official actions, so those plans would be abandoned.
I get this feeling, that the question needs to be asked, not who benefited from this move, but who it satisfies or pleases?
Even if erdogan is not behind this, in his heart he must be happy, calling it blow back. This may be true of all these sympathisers of these fanatics.
For erdogan, It’s like that feeling of wanting to steal, but not wanting to be caught doing it, absence of guilt.
It happened on his (erdogan’s) watch. He’s responsible.
Putin’s response was cool. No finger pointing, no anger, very cool. Even though this is an attack on him just as much as his ambassador. His response is much scarier, cause hell will probably follow for those that did it.
I felt sad for the ambassador. You just have to look at their faces to see who is decent and who isn’t. The ambassador looks like a gentleman, a statesman even, and the assassin looks demented.
A lot of bad things happen when ambassadors die, a 100 years ago it started ww1, a thousand years ago it destroyed the Sunni Khalifat when hulegus hordes stuffed the fleeing, living caliph in a donkey hide and ran horses over him.
My condolences to all the ambassador ‘ s loveded ones, all his well wishes, all Russians, and my prayers for him. May Allah reward the ambassador and condemn the killer.
Look at the pics of the Ambassador’s wife, at the transfer of his body! May he,
Andrei, rest in peace and may his memory be eternat, and may his poor widow be comforted!
Just saw a pic of President Putin where he’s looking at the casket of his Excellency, Ambassador Andrei, and then I read this quote:
You are part of me,
nay you are all of me
What hurts you, hurts me
What kills you, kills me
—-Ali Ibn Abi Talib (as)
For those that die in Allah’s way, there is only honour and glory and a great reward.
Allah’s la’anat on all these takfiris, and all their sponsors, and may people who are misled by their lies, begin to see the truth
I wish there was more I could do to let the Russian people in general and the ambassador’s family in particular know that we are humbled by their sacrifices, and honour them as we would honour our martyrs
Well obama just threatened Russia on Friday and talks about working out a Syrian strategy between Russia, Iran and turkey in Kazakhstan were about to start – tomorrow, the 20th, I believes. Those are the 2 main reasons I think the zionazis killed the man. Revenge and an attempt to drive a wedge between Russia and turkey.
Did NOT Obama say “we will retaliate at a time and place of our choosing”?
Indeed he did.
So did butt-hurt Biden.
I think the CIA/Obama angle is a little far-fetched. They aren’t that clever.
It is however indisputable that Obama is spitefully poisoning as many wells as possible before he leaves office. As humiliating as Trump’s victory is for Obama it will be more humiliating for Trump to achieve success in foreign policy that eluded The One.
Barack Obama has been utterly repudiated by the American people. Now, like a bad tenant served with eviction papers, he is kicking holes in the walls and ripping out plumbing fixtures before he leaves.
It takes little ‘cleverness’ to kill.
“The Jews are good at tearing things down, but not good at building them up.” – Martin Buber.
This Buber quote appears to be fake. It doesn’t show up on a web search of even just the abbreviated, “The Jews are good at tearing things down but” Google, Yandex and DuckDuckGo all show only this comment, but today’s same comment by “PrideOfMammon” on Zerohedge will become the second result. Same Person ?
An un-sourced quote like this, claiming to be from a widely published rabbi known, AFAIK, to not have been rabid, supposedly making a broad swipe at all Jews, deserves .. may I say … contempt ? In general, if you are going to quote someone, you should first verify the quote. Like US President Abraham Lincoln once said, “Over half the quotes you see on the internet are fake !”
Welcome to Zionist infidel wahabi turkey….
Now try to feel what and how Kurdistan has to deal with turks or with their handlers in langley and DON’T YOU (edited MOD) bring the southern kurdistan/iraqi kurdistan example as Kurds are Zionists….. If you do, forget you !
This is the Muslim Kurd who have been telling and telling and the world tells us kurdistan is a Zionist project not a Victim of Zionists , which it is…
We understand the smart play of Russia to prevent WW3 but sometimes fight is unavoidable and has to happen … I will not let 5 kurdish,palestinian babies to be victims so that we can save1 million russian babies…
A life is a life..
We are used to this kind of high level betrayals…
Biji Islam, kurdistan , russia, armenia
Once you were an Aryan with Armenia. Today you are both pathetic & sad examples of your past glory.
I hope you and others did not skip the last sentence of the sakers article: “Neither Russia nor Turkey, which have fought each other in twelve wars, have any other option.” It written with centuries agonizing experience of killing and being killed.
Russia is in much peril place than you think. Had it be in early 20th century and before, Russia would have been taking advantage of with western border and century asia border right now, and would have been in all out fight for survival. Of cause, had it were that time, it would be unimaginable for russia to send so many fire power into Syria either.
War has no winner, especial when you already fight one, and the other has way to fight back, effectively.
Kurdistan is a zionist project- Kurdistan is a NATO project
Kurdistan is not a Kurdish project- Unless you believe the PKK represents all Kurds?
I don’t happen to believe that.
Kurdistan is a Kurdish project. As well as a Zionist project.
The Kurds ns Iraq and elsewhere have been oppressed/marginalized (historically) and Zionist NATO (& Imposter Israel) is exploiting this fact to the nth degree. I have met *many* Kurds from Iraq who support Kurdistan; they may or may not know they are being exploited by Zionist NATO interests.
Have read that the Kurds are being used by Zionists and U.S against Syrians, Iraqis and even non-Muslims. They have promised them for the creation of Kurdish state (lands from Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran). They have become both part of the solution and problem, more a problem. For now they are being protected by the Zionists and U.S.. This can only benefit Israel and U.S and not even the Kurds which they have to fight all these 4 countries to create a state. Its only realistic for the Kurds to fight the foreign terrorists that is invading their nations.
I agree that Erdogan had nothing to gain.And a lot to lose by being behind the murder. But I don’t think the killer was an “ex-policeman”. Earlier both the Turks and Russians said he was a policeman. And had he been fired over the coup,or any other reason. Its almost a certainty they would have taken his badge and police credentials from him when they fired him.If not,they would be different than most any other police force. I suspect the Turks are now, after becoming calmer,and thinking about it, trying to backtrack. And claim he was an “ex” to distance the regime further from him. Since he seems to have been an Islamist (from his words). We know from many reports about how deeply the Islamist ideology has infected many in Turkey. Especially members of Erdogan’s own party and security services. I’d think it more likely he was one of those who “went rogue”.Whether on his own,or with others is as yet unknown.
I also agree with you about the lack of security. At least from now forward Russia needs to up their security for their officials. Don’t accept that the “host country” will do that for them. This kind of situation shows that doesn’t always work out.As you said,if he had a Russian guard with him (and body armor) this might have been an “attempted” assassination and not a successful assassination.
He is an islamist from his words? I should hope you are not refering to his words ”Allahu Alkbar”, Mossad agents shout ”Allahu Akbar” all the time to frame muslims.
I would consider the question of who equiped him to walk in freely, this is a CIA/Mossad dirty work.
It happens nevertheless that Mossad/CIA agents happen to be Islamists. Dupes, of course, easily to work up into righteous rage. The idea that a Muslim CIA/Mossad agent commits suicide in order to ‘frame’ Muslims to give them a bad name is beyond ridiculous.
“[..] The idea that a Muslim CIA/Mossad agent commits suicide in order to ‘frame’ Muslims to give them a bad name is beyond ridiculous.”
I hear ya.
But then again, maybe you haven’t been indoctrinated enough… you might be needing to be send to one of them ‘liberal’ re-education interment camps… in order for you to learn this mantra:
The hit-men do not need to be told what they are hitting or why. They just need a target and a tiny bit of help. Who knows what ‘compromat’ (compromising materials) the Anglo-Zionist Empire has on them. And ‘compromat’ is half the job of the NSA and 19 other US ‘intelligence’ [sic] agencies.
Perhaps the threat of a family, mother, being liquidated is enough.
In any event your argument is primitive.
I think so too
And Berlin as well
Isnt it standard, pretty much every where for you to have to turn in your “badge and gun” if you’ve been suspended -let alone dismissed from the police force?
And why was he automatically given access to the event by just flashing a badge?
Why was he not subjected to a body search?
Are we to believe that security at the event was so lax, that guests were not searched or screened?
I am trying to be objective about all this, but the whole damn thing just seem very ”fishy” to me.
Turkey is awashed with takfiri terrorists and their sympathizers, and Russia is at war with these people next-door in Syria.
Why then was the Russian ambassador who is in the middle of all this not adequately protected by Russian security operatives?
The current Turkish leader is nototious for his treachery and double-dealing and equivocations.
I know the Kremlin holds its nose and deal with him because it is the practical thing to do, but in doing so it cannot let down its guard for 1 single second.
As I said earlier, Russia is at war with Jihadists and their supporters.
Accordingly, its personnel and property worldwide -but especially in these sensitive places – should receive a level of protection that is commensurate with the threats emanating from this state of affairs.
Uncle Bob say’s Erdogan didn’t do it- but then infers Erdogan did over and over???
“I agree that Erdogan had nothing to gain”
but then Islamists in Erdogan’s party. Islamists in his security service- All alluding to Erdogan being responsible
“Earlier both the Turks and Russians said he was a policeman”
Incorrect- Clearly and early it was reported he was an ex police officer
as for ID??? Let’s see all those dead police officers thanks to the PKK … could ID have been stolen- entirely possible- including from the most recent attack?
Like a broken record
So many other players to consider…
You need to let RT know about all your knowledge on the attacker. Since today in just one story alone they “once again” say the attacker was a Turkish police officer.
“Condemnations of the assassination and words of condolences have been pouring in from around the world since a Turkish riot police officer shot Ambassador Andrey Karlov to death in Ankara on Monday.”
“Karlov was shot dead as he was speaking at the opening of an exhibition called ‘Russia in the Eyes of Turks’ at an art gallery in Ankara. The gunman has been identified as 22-year-old Mevlut Altintas, a member of Ankara’s riot police force.”
Believe it or not,there are elements inside a regime that sometimes go rogue. We are seeing some of them today in the US. As I said I don’t believe Erdogan was behind the attack. But I do think that the “climate” of tolerance for jihadi terrorism he has allowed in Turkey.Spawned the attacker,and others like him to be created.
I thank you, Uncle Bob 1 for giving the first name of the Ambassador, Andrei. So often we find out the assassin’s full name, but it is not he that I wish to pray for, and in prayer we need the first name only. The name I wish to see repeated, so I will remember it, is that of Andrei Karlov. He looked like a good man, in the photos I’ve seen. He must have been to have accepted such a dangerous position. My sympathy to his family and loved ones, as Donald Trump has said.
I lit a candle for the newly departed Andrei at our pre-Nativity vespers tonight. May his memory be eternal!
Could you provide a link for that? Like this?
Killer of Russia’s ambassador fired from police after July’s failed coup in Turkey — media
“Mevlut Mert Altintas, a former office of the Turkish police who was fired from the forces of law and order in the course of investigation of the July 15 abortive putsch”
There are claims of reinstatement going around- but where did they originate?
I don’t know?- you have some attribution or is it just gossip
Cause without some serious attribution it’s just more gossip and there is plenty of that going around regarding this incident
one more for the records
“On Monday, 22-year-old Mevlut Mert Altintas, a former member of Ankara’s riot police”
be sure to let RT know of two alternative sources?
TASS and Telesur
I do not know if Erdogan is involved in this, but I think he/ Turkey has what to gain from the assasination of the Russian embassador. See, Russia lately is under the threat to loose the passage into the Mediteranean see via the straits by the West and that would be achieved by driving a wedge between Russia and Turkey. But Turkey can raise the bar and bargain with Russia (gaz, nuclear price etc) if Turkey stages this even before the West and present it as West’s doing.
I feel like I’ve seen recent reports that said he had been suspended/dismissed from the police for Gulenist leanings after the assasination attempt. But that he had been recently reinstated. That would explain why he had the badge.
“…. at a time and place of our choosing”
Said recently by both the President and vice president of the US with regard to what Russia has apparently done.
Co-incidence? Maybe, maybe not..
Re: “…with regard to what Russia has apparently done.”
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble. It what you know for certain that just ain’t so.”
The best revenge is success. Here is an interesting analysis of the military situation around Aleppo and the next moves for the alliance of forces helping Syria. There is a deep evil around the political elite still in power for another month in Washington D.C.—petty and spiteful. I would not under estimate their desire to get their licks in before there time to go .
True about those leaving power but the evil ascending is just as great. For now, Trump has a sane and rational policy toward Russia and a world conflict. That will last until he gets the word from on high. He will then follow orders. As for the rest of his policies, they are an abomination, beyond bad. I hope he lasts just long enough to get some serious US-Russia cooperation in place.
Erdogan is constantly trying to push his luck and he constantly has to be reminded by the Russians about their deal in Northern Syria, last time to the cost of a few turkish soldiers near al-Bab.
The fact that more than 80% of the Turks support isis and maniacs like these and constantly are being subject to more jihadists indoctrination by Erdogan speaks volumes. And it’s very convenient for him to pull Gulen out of his ass everytime something happens for how long can he do that? 0You don’t turn around thinking that everything is OK with these people or you get stabbed in the back at the first best opportunity. CIA? Yes more than probably and getting a Turkish hothead to do it is as easy as getting proxies to do their dirty work in Syria.
”The fact that more than 80% of the Turks support isis and maniacs like these” source please?
It is always amusing to read from the extreme/fanatic/radical crazies, when they accuse everybody else of extremism, radicalism and fanaticism. Just look in the nearest mirror and see your nightmares!
I am amazed with the fact that a police officer was used. How do you protect from that? Even if you had 20 bodyguards, the guy could have just used a bomb. Or they could have planted the bomb in the museum and killed everyone inside. The people that created all those terrorists and carried out 9-11 are not playing by the rules. It is my belief that we are all hostages and the *power that be* are trying to negotiate who will rule the hostages. A bit like that battle of Aleppo.
I mean personally, I feel I am surrounded by stupid people who believe all the nonsensical propaganda that comes out of their tv. If I was Putin, I would nuke Canada and be done with it. Thankfully, he seems to have a better plan.
If it’s OK with you I’d prefer you didn’t encourage Putin to nuke Canada. I live in Canada and regret to say I would take it personally.
Would make sense if you said to nuke Israel….why Canada?
Not Vancouver, please.
Not Nova Scotia, please.
Not southern Alberta plz
Please don’t do Canada, BC Nova Scotia or any place in between! Then we won’t have any place to emigrate to, us poor slobovians from the lower ’48. We have to have somewhere to go up, or we will be annihilated! If we can be spared at the end.
Why Canada? Because that is where I live. Sometimes it makes me crazy to argue with canadians who believe everything they hear on Radio-Canada. It is governmental propaganda. They eat it up like it is candies. It drives me insane.
I am sorry if my attitude is offensive. I just get irritated sometimes. Please Putin, dont listen to me. Keep on doing what you are doing. Even if I really dont understand what the plan is.
You made me think here at Rio de Janeiro.
IF Canada is like that with a less ignorant population….
That means that a good educational level makes no difference to the brainwash system.
Said that, people used to think that a good education is the solution to everything.
But not to brainwash …
How to deal with that is still a mystery!
We can win locally but never defeat the brainwash machine since is an unidentified force.
That’s the main question. How to identify the group.
It’s weakness is Bildemberg. But no one talks about this group in particular.
I’m not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. You must identify the enemy!
At least in the States, an ‘education’ is really just training to listen to and belief official sources and official versions of history.
The people who don’t do that have largely renounced what they were taught to believe and the official sources they were taught to listen to. In such people, there’s usuallly one point in time or one event that teaches them that at least in one area that what they were taught is wrong and the official sources are incorrect. Then it goes from there and they begin to question everything.
Perhaps a good education that does teach one to think and reason for oneself helps with this process, but for me the amount of ‘education’ a person has is really not strongly connected with their ability to question what they are being told.
Yes, of course, most “education”,.a word in which itself is a deceptive cover-all for indoctrination with universal reverence as “all good” is invoked as a qualifier for judgment and critical thinking. So X has a college degree in management or some such crap makes him more qualified to be respected than Joe. Joe might have learned some hard lessons on the street or barnyard that make him far better at analysis of tone and style and pattern. What you are driving at is to me the “threshold” of breaking from the matrix(a popular term these days), which brings opprobrium from peers, alienation, usually financial jeopardy, even fear of the police state. What we can only hope is the numbers in the general public will increase until “the rebel” is supported widely; then they can’t stop them. or us.
Plainsman, I love the way you think. I would like to say that there is a spiritual component to this. A lot of the brainwashing is only possible by shutting down our spiritual connection to each other and to a higher power. To that end, we have more and more drugs in the health care industry and more chemicals in the water and food. This muddle the brain and render the human being incapable of rising above a certain level in his mental capacity.
When someone becomes aware of this and spend time in silent contemplation and with proper diet and exercise. There are mental faculties that can become available. Lucid dreaming is one such possibility. Armed with this type of awareness, a rebel if you will, can not only break free from the matrix but also, get support from the force. I am going back to the star wars analogy. All that stand between us and this realization are the evil manipulation of the power that be. The empire I shall call them. George Bush once put it this way: this is a battle for the hearts and minds. Or if you read the bible: A battle against spiritual wickedness in the high places. Ephesians 6:12
A lone gunman is almost never the case, they do exist, but they are not that capable, they are very visible even through crowds, this guy is clean cut and very composed, look at the trigger finger. A person that just murdered someone and is because of pure emotional and ideological reasons, would not take the finger of the trigger, specially when lifting the gun twice, and it does not matter his training, you can see it with cop shooting videos, most of the time, they do not put the finger on the trigger guard after shooting. But it could be.
My gut goes with who has more to gain if the reaction intended by Russia or Turkey would have been what they were expecting or hoping for. This is no retaliation by supposed hacks, they know that the Russia Hacking is a false narrative, but they also know that many of them do not have a lot of time left to try and push their agenda, so do not be amazed if more attempts, false flags and terrorist actions come in the next months.
Saker, the moment I can donate, I will, your site is a fountain of valuable information, and I want it to continue that way, sadly I have been unable to do so, but you are at the top of my list.
Merry Christmas to all readers and the Saker team and contributors.
Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca, Mexico
I think being in America for long time, you forget few things.
1. Being armed is seen as bad or less civilized due to Anglo influence on diplomatic relations in most of old world
Ie it’s polite to walk as if nothing is problem in cosmopolitan big city
Why disrupt culture of polite gentry with protection to ambassador who is not on top level posting
Ie due to history of wars it’s likely that diplomacy with Turkey is not viewed with same urgentness or priority as say Germany or China due 2 economics & Arguably although this has spread past diplomacy in India
Meaning overall a low profile assignment in a country with whom you have tensions means you don’t want to up those tensions by posting bodyguards
Ie you want to keep the war outside, in the 5 star hotels of elite & diplomats there’s not a war outside & we should carry on as if nothing.
Russian attitudes toward safety, as you said only exacerbate these issues.
This sort of cultural lapse in countries where exceptionalism is not routinely enforced like in USA is common.
Meaning your country is old enough that you see a long past & future for it. You kind of chill because you’re not some 2 century old America trying to find its manhood among the great empires of the world.
Sorry, but I would regard Turkey as a top level posting. Any place that dangerous and so near Russia and the troubles ongoing with terrorists is top level.
Typical of woman to regard safety as top priority।। No, Turkey in terms of its overall Geo-economic value is tier 2 now compared to relations with Other Poles।।Already came out that it was international politeness that prevented Russian bodyguards।।So was part right but do see your safety angle।।
Around the third or fourth shot, he is hit low in the neck, so doubtful a vest would have saved him. He may well have been wearing one.
A bodyguard would have been watching the man behind him like a hawk and may have taken him out before he got a shot off.
Crazy Russians. Missing that prerequisite instinct for survival – fear. Men like him and the rest of the Russian leadership stand head and shoulders above the small vindictive types like Obama.
Many political figures have been assassinated by their own bodyguards.
A photo published by the Daily Mail shows “Altintas, pictured left, stood behind Ambassador Karlov, centre, as he began his speech”, looking like a bodyguard.
“The assassin who gunned down Russia’s ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov has been identified as a 22-year-old undercover police officer…
Turkish officials claim Altintas was off-duty at the time of the assassination.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4049400/The-undercover-cop-assassin-special-forces-officer-22-gunned-Russian-ambassador-meant-protect.html#ixzz4TMBzYVfn
A ‘lone wolf’? Immediately the ‘Grey Wolfs’ come to mind. Remember Ali Agca, the ‘lone wolf’ who attempted to kill Pope John Paul II.
Yahoo!!! wizoz- when my comment get’s through, I too mentioned NATO’s Grey Wolf’s and the assassination of the Pope- so many possibilities to consider
It looks that we glide on the same thought waves.
Volare, oh oh/Cantare, ohohoho/Nel blu dipinto di blu/Felice di stare lassù/E volavo, volavo felice/Più in alto del sole ed ancora più su/Mentre il mondo pian piano spariva, lontano laggiù/Una musica dolce suonava soltanto per noi.
My suspicion is growing that the ‘lone wolf’ was THE bodyguard. In the photo he wore dark glasses! He did not sneak in, he was meant to be there. That, of course, raises questions about the Turkish side of the security arrangements. It is not beyond belief that their security apparatus is still infiltrated by Islamists not necessarily Gulenists. The Grey Wolfs are a definite candidate.
The assassin was his bodyguard, other footage from another angle shows him standing there behind His Excellency, and then just pulling out his gun and start firing. My understanding is the Host country is responsible for a diplomat’s security. This is going to put a lot of pressure on Turkey today during peace talks about Syria. If the Zionists did this, then this seems to fit their pattern lately of accidently shooting themselves in the foot at every opportunity. They are making the mistake of thinking everybody else acts like schoolyard bullies, they are not used to dealing with adults.
It seems when History is on your side, you can do no wrong. Once She turns, you can do no right. A multi-polar world will necessarily be a more adult, diplomatic affair; which will require Sun Tzu and Machiavelli rather than Brzezinski and Wolfowitz. Funny they always call themselves ‘the adults in the room’ for their capacity to do whatever it takes to get results. But that is how a child acts. Adults look beyond instant gratification, and think about how decisions will effect their grandchildren. This is why it seems Putin is astride the world at the moment, the Adults are back.
I suspect Talmudists. They are known for engaging in slaughter which ultimately accomplishes nothing but does express their own impotent rage.
“Why do the Satanists rage, and the peoples imagine a vain thing?” (Psalm 2:1).
My sincere condolences to the ambassador’s family, friends, and colleagues.
“Give rest, O God, to Your servant, and place him in Paradise where the choirs of the Saints and the righteous will shine as the stars of heaven. To Your departed servant give rest, O Lord, and forgive all his offenses.”
The turkish mainstream news agencies point out that he was _not_ fired in the purge against the coup. He is working in the special forces and got a sick day off, booked a room in a hotel nearby the exhibition in the day of shooting and showed his well valid police ID to get around the security perimeter.
I am turkish, and I personally believe it was a joint operation of CIA and Gulenists. After the coup, the Gulenists virtually lost the capability to conduct another coup, and their new tactic is to perform assasinations and suicide attacks to the strategical positions which will render their joint cause with CIA beneficial. The purge could not eliminate all Gulenists from police, military and other government organizations, as they hide themselves quite well.
Evidences for the assassin Mevlut Mert Aydintas’ Gulenists link are that he got another sick day off on July 15 – the day of the Gulenist coup, went to a high school belonging to Gulenist movement and he was a suspect in a case regarding to rigging qualification exams for government positions. The Ankara represantative of Today’s Zaman newspaper (a propaganda machine of Gulenists) said on a December 16 tweet that from this day the ambassadors in Turkey have no security. I do not think it is quincidence.
Makes a lot of sense, thanks.
My heartfelt condolences to His Excellency’s widow, family and the Russian people. His patriotic blood now waters your tree of Liberty.
Dear Saker, I really appreciate your continual focus on Russian fault in your analysis. Only by focusing on your own errors can you improve. Blaming others often hides our own faults, and that is truly dangerous. People concentrate too much on Know your enemy, and not enough on Know yourself.
I am in the bratty Zionist camp on this one, they do seem to lash out when defeated.
I would guess that it was the disgruntled authors of the (so far) failed Bashar al Assad regime change policy. If the assassin is telling the truth, there are others in on the plot, who intend to remove their enemies “one by one”. I have a few questions. Did anyone see blood coming from Amb. Karloff? I didn’t. Why did the US Embassy go on lockdown 2 hrs after the shooting w/vague reports of gunfire heard? Was the crash of IL18 a coincidence? Could Aydintas have passed himself off as Karlov’s security? If not. why was he permitted to position himself behind the ambassador, & out of his line of sight? The security was not only abominable, it seemed to be, perhaps, nonexistent. RIANovosti shows the killer running through the bldg. alone, not crouching, after the murder, while the police outside walk around in a seemingly uncoordinated fashion. He must have had confederates in the gallery; I don’t think the lack of protection was accidental, or due to negligence &/or bravado. Why was a purged policeman allowed to retain his ID?
Your last question is one I ask too. But as I’ve said before I don’t believe he was a “purged” policeman. I think that story is one being given out by the Turks to distance themselves from him. I’ve read lately that the Turkish press has reported he was a “serving” policeman. And that he took a “day off” to be able to commit the crime.I don’t blame the Turkish government for the murder (directly). Though I do think their coddling of Islamists has lead to the “climate” in Turkey that allowed this murder.The old saying ,”you lay down with dogs,you get fleas”,is my thinking on their problem.
Uncle Bob, again how does an islamist look like? this guy looks more like a kemalist
He was a policeman. And hoped to get into the exhibit to kill the Ambassador. I doubt that he’d be “dressed” as a jihadi . What we do know is what he said at the murder. He shouted jihadi slogans. And claimed he wanted revenge on Russians for Aleppo. We also know (from many sources over the months) that Islamists are thick in Turkey. Putting all those things together,while there is the “possibility” of error. I think there is a good chance that he is an Islamist. Only time will tell,if more information comes out. But until then I’ll stick to my thinking on that.
there is no such thing as islamist, is there such thing as christianist?
What is islamist slogan? you mean ”Allahu Akbar”? that is muslim slogan for achieving good. Not in my knowlege that muslims shout Allahu Akbar for killing. Terrorists do and terrorists are not considered muslims since it is forbidden in islam to kill.
This assassination only serves one thing, damaging Russian turkish relationship. Who benefits? it sure is not Erdogan’s Turkey.
The question isn’t what he “really” was. But instead what he “thought” he was. While we can’t be certain of what was in his mind. We must ask ourselves which type of movement uses suicide attacks. And yes,his public murder of the Ambassador was a form of suicide attack.He was almost certain to be killed after the attack by security. And I think he surely would have known that. So what type of ideological thinking in today’s World embraces suicide attacks. Its not rocket science to figure that out.There probably are many terms that could be used for them. But the one most often used by themselves and by their enemies is “Islamist”.So you can quibble about semantics (a favorite pastime of your’s I’m seen),but I think everyone gets the idea of my meaning by that term.And yes, ”Allahu Akbar” is used by both Jihadi supporters and at times by their enemies.But their enemies aren’t in the habit of murdering Russian Ambassadors.So when that phrase is uttered by someone who is in that habit. We can pretty closely guess which group he supports. One more point on that. I’m going to suppose he was Muslim (or thought of himself as a devout Muslim).And I’m thinking that for a true devout Muslim,it would be considered a sin to commit murder with God’s name on their lips. While for a true-believer Jihadi,it would be considered a blessing instead.So one more piece of evidence.And lastly,I think I said (several times already) that I doubt Erdogan had anything to do with the murder.So yes,it was probably meant to harm Russian-Turkish relations.
You may be right that this was a de facto suicide attack.
But you may be wrong.
The chances of the attack ending as a de facto suicide seem to be decreased by the fact that there were no security agents present to, for example, immediately shoot the assassin dead.
Presumaby the assassin knew the arrangements before he entered the exhibit and teh gallery.
Namely, that he would be the only “gun” in the room
I gotta say I think that if this had occurred in many parts of the USA, this guy would not have gotten out of that room to run around the museum . . .
True,except he didn’t try to escape. But spent crucial time instead shouting his hate speech. He was the only gun “immediately” in the room. But being a policeman he must have known the outside was “crawling” with armed security. If he intended to escape his only chance would have been to try and leave right at the start.Flashing his police ID again,to confuse the police. But he didn’t do that. He stayed like a lamb to the slaughter.That is why I say it was a suicide mission. And he knew and accepted that.Few if any people committing crimes for money are willing to sacrifice their own life (knowingly that is) for that money.The type of people that will,are those driven by ideology.And that ideology is almost always in today’s World religious. I strongly doubt a “non-jihadi” Muslim would think that Allah/God would approve of murder.Only the jihadis driven by an extremist version of Islam,would believe themselves blessed by committing murder.
@Not in my knowlege that muslims shout Allahu Akbar for killing
You missed all the videos that the jihadists (who are islamists by their own admission) put on the Net, bellowing ‘Alahu Akbar’ when cutting the throats of the ‘infidels’ or ‘apostates’.
You believe zionist propaganda
He was dressed like the typical bodyguard, suit and dark glasses.
More blame Erdogan?? 100% presentation of the same meme.
That is how GWB would say you catapult the propaganda right?
Grey Wolf’s – NATO
Kurds- PKK- NATO
@ Uncle Bob:
“[..] The old saying ,”you lay down with dogs, you get fleas”, is my thinking on their problem.”
You took the words right out off my mouth. But not only on this occasion, I was thinking about that exact phrase when we were discussing the ‘German problem’ a day or so ago…
If Russia believes Erdogan was not responsible, which seems likely, they will not embarrass him.
You will only see blood if a major artery or vein is hit and it bleeds externally.
Watch the video closely.
another point of view:
Good link thanks ;-).
mm, no he was not among the officers who were fired during gulenist purge, this is what the government wants to convey but a screenshot of his personnel file have already leaked showing him in active duty. In fact, he was on sick leave on doctor’s report, apparently for preparing for the attack.
But, yes, I should say his attire, hair cut, etc, reminds very much Gulenist idiots.
Good old Saker! How refreshing to read analysis that acknowledges the writer doesn’t know or tells us we may never know something. While the fake corporate media interview each other and present opinion/speculation as fact. I read an interesting article in the early 1990s about the decline of the US education system. They are now reaping the rewards with dimwits in the CIA, the State Dept etc etc. People who quite simply do not understand – or want to understand Russia or indeed diplomacy. On a related note Zero Hedgers were commenting about Obummer heading for the golf course after making some insincere comments about the assassination. No need to be surprised really. It’s been obvious for decades that the US president is just a figurehead. He doesn’t do anything. So being on the golf course gets him out of the way of the deep state chaps. Very accommodating of him.
When Reagan got “elected” I said the US deep state had quit pretending they elect presidents and just hired an actor. Gotta give Ronnie credit though; he always stayed on script. A reap pro.
Very Saker-style comprehensive and intelligent analysis. Of all possibilities analysed, I go for the lone operator Daeshite; not much different from his “colleague” who did the Berlin market attack a few hours later.
These crazed zealots are as excited to kill as much as they are excited to get killed. Their suicidal nature gives their doctrinal and organisational identity away. Moreover, the fact that they have been using pistols and trucks as weapons is an indication that they will stop at nothing. The “weapons” they use are an indication of lack of resources and bigger and more sophisticated local support base.
Many Daesh recruits who engage in such acts become known to Daesh after the facts; not before. What defines them as Daesh members is not the outcome of filling an application form and joining the ranks, but rather it is the collective Jihadist ideology that unites them.
Same day there was also attack on mosque in Zurich which MSM choose to ignore. Ankara, Berlin and Zurich all same day. This is not by accident.
“Many Daesh recruits who engage in such acts become known to Daesh after the facts; not before.”
GoldmanSachs has the same employment policy. Applications for Vice President positions must include details of a successful billion dollar fraud in the CV.
Sure there is a message here:
Re security: you are absolutely right, Saker.
Repost of Trump’s (unexpectedly – to me, anyway – statesmanlike and seemingly sincere) condemnation of the murder of Ambassador Karlov (r.i.p.):
“Today we offer our condolences to the family and loved ones of Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrei Karlov, who was assassinated by a radical Islamic terrorist,” Trump said in a statement. “The murder of an ambassador is a violation of all rules of civilized order and must be universally condemned.”
Yes, a ‘violation of all rules of civilized order and must be universally condemned’ is exactly what this crime is.
Well-said – for once.
Now I would like him to highlight the use of a seven/year old girl as a suicude-bomber in Damascus by the Western/sponsored terrorists: she was detonated by remote.
The 21stC is shaping up to be a new ‘dark age’ in human history: he has the power to do something about it.
But does he have the courage?
“[Trump] has the power to do something about it. But does he have the courage.”
I would contend the opposite.
He does has the courage. He doesn’t have the power.
He can slowly and ever-so-cautiously accumulate the power.
And I agree with yesterday’s commenter, who conjectured that this assassination could be a warning to Putin.
But I would add, also to Trump.
Why condolences to family and loved ones only? His Excellency wasn’t a nobody, victim of a roadkill: he was “Russia incarnated” (as any ambassador). Why not condolences to Russia and russian people?
I don’t like this tweet.
Sorry for posting in this blog, but can you please put a few words on the current demand of caliphate in london, cannot find anything on net with regard to truth.
London . . .
“USA, you will pay, Caliphate is on its way”
Excellent analysis, not much info available so no point in jumping to conclusions.
Does anyone know what the lapel pin the killer was wearing? I can’t find a clear image.
Unable to venture a guess, here’s the clearest depiction i’ve come across:
Large image here https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0Dm6vHWQAA08uR.jpg
Thank you both Vasco da Gama and Peter AU.
And where did this image come/originates from?? 18 kb, no data embedded at all.
(the “large” image)
You are right Kent. When I went back to it and compared pics there was no way to tell if it was the pin the shooter was wearing. In fact the more I looked at it the more I thought they may have been different.
The question here is always blame the Russians ( as happens with your stubborn insistence in a failure by the Syrian Army on the retake of Palmyra by ISIS, when a major operation was being played in Aleppo and there were another supposed “coalitions against terrorists” in charge of that zone and the zone of procedence of the 5000 assets ), since they have been quite effective in their campaign in Syria so as to, along with their allies, clear the main cities in Syria from terrorist scum.
It seems that they are the Turkish the responsible to provide security for diplomats in Turkey:
Kremlin spokesman: Ankara is responsible for safety of Russian diplomats in Turkey
So, I will point at the MIT as responsible, in benefit of “those of always”.
Yes, you are correct. It it the responsibility of the host country to protect other countries’ diplomats serving in it. (Although, I can see the Saker’s point, that in unusually dangerous times, countries should take additional (clandestine) measures to protect their diplomats.)
Consider this Saker….4
Preibus has stated Trump will accept the Russians interfered with the election if the FBI agrees with the CIA assessment. But Commey is in deep too.
Here is an alternative to the story:
Must watch, folks.
One doesn’t need to agree with this particular Youtuber’s take to get the awkward feeling that a whole number of things don’t add up in this snuff video of the Russian ambassador to Turkey.
The Clowns in Charge have their hands in this, on multiple levels, guaranteed!
Why is this video ignored? why isn’t anyone paying attention. There are some interesting points in this video and deserves attention.
It’s not ignored. It just brings up 100+ more questions that cannot be answered in a day or two.
Besides the question about the you tuber himself possibly doctoring video, the main question becomes:
1. “We know from 911 and many other instances that the west is an occultocracy. Does Russia need to show it can play the same mind games?” Why? To put a stop to these things, by showing they’re just as good at it, along with their new Turkish “partners”?
2. Then what would be the plan for the ambassador, plastic surgery and a new identity? Why?
It is suspicious but so is everything until it can be checked from every conceivable angle.
Freemasons communicating in broad daylight to other freemasons? Cooperating with each other or opposing factions in competition?
And on and on and on and on.
Let the de-occulting accelerate, let discernment increase dramatically. But that isn’t possible in a day.
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate your contribution to the debate. I have been trying to make sense of what is going on for a long time and nothing makes sense. Maybe it is not supposed to make sense. Maybe it is one big joke on the tax payer.
I’m not sure either, how deep are we caught in the “simulacra & simulation” circus.
On one hand, there are many trolls in the “conspiracy/alternative” corner, whose main job is just creating “guilt by association” Eintopf, where Truth cannot be discerned. And confusion is a powerful method of Kontrol…
On the other hand, the Elite is already so arrogant & sure, that “they” are bombarding us with “their” “revelation of the method” stuff and any opposition is now “fake news”. The masses are distracted & hypnotized, the “truethers” are neutralized.
Interesting times indeed…
we are the living carnival of mirrors
filled with shapeless solipsistic masks
meaningless noise everywhere, intangible
empty forms are pregnant, no pills
and they will call the offspring: Vaccuum
Payback for China’s drone stunt.
Conclusion the murdering will have only one result:
Russia’s determination to put sanity into this world will only be strengthened… Mr Karlov is already gone home to whatever we call it and is now resting in peace. Like a good Russian soldier he fought well and bravely.
I tend to think that it was the mad guys in US’ administration, but as usual they had forgotten that such an act will not deter Russia from putting sanity back into our world…
Good we shall soon have a different US Administration.
What I find unusual is no exit wounds and no evidence of bleeding. Perhaps he was wearing some sort of protective vest because Inwould expect exit wounds or at least puddling blood beneath him.
Sorry to be so macabre.
KJR on December 20, 2016 · at 11:27 am UTC
“What I find unusual is no exit wounds and no evidence of bleeding”
In the case of the Ambassador?
Or the gun man?
The gunman seems to have been plenty bloody.
No blood at all on or from the diplomat after nine shots?
Hard to believe . . .
Just sayin’ . . ..
The Russian diplomat.
There was no evidence of bleeding at all.
I *assume* he used a 9mm pistol. Very lightweight, high velocity jacketed hollow point ammo could have been used that would have less liklihood of exiting but it’s not guaranteed.
A 5.7×28 caliber as suggested may perform similarly but there exists only one pistol that shoots that caliber and that’s not what he’s holding.
Again, I am no expert on firearms, but a small caliber round, say a 5.7 X .28 tumbles through the target causing major internal damage without necessarily exiting. In any case the video is focused on the gunman more than the victim — which itself is uncanny given the tripod scenario.
I put lack of security question on RT comments an got plenty of thumbs up until my comments were taken down , anyway following the failed coup probably due to Russian warning, seems to me there will be alot of anger when one loses their job , career and hasn’t much to lose makes people desperate.When debathification took place in Iraq the purged military became rebels an insurgents and eventually the core military might of Isis. there has to be lots of anger at Russia from the sunni side of things which to my mind begs the question again of why such a lax of security for such an position in a country with all the recent activities /defeats of Isis and the coup planners
My sincere condolences to the family of the innocent ambassador. No one should have to endure such unnecessary tragedy.
However the individual responsible may have justified his act, the ultimate responsibility lies at the feet of those who are setting the world ablaze, country after country, people after people without a thought of consequence for their despicable crimes. Horror can only beget horror, as we are seeing today across the globe in countless instances.
I am reminded of the West’s tarring of Milosević, as the commander of all war in the Balkans, with the so called “Butcher of the Balkans” being guilty of “countless deaths” of innocent Muslims at Srbrenica and Kosovo, in his mad pursuit of “Greater Serbia” ( funny that, because Milosević’s alleged victims, the Albanians are now on a turbo path to realization of fascist “Greater Albania”, with the blessings of the West of course ), whereas we now know that the Balkan wars were in fact engineered by the CIA, aided and abetted by the degenerate EU and terrorist NATO. An article from the last few days in Macedonian media, reveals a report from the BBC that its expected that there will be at least another 10,000 deaths from bombing of Serbia with depleted uranium.
And just to illustrate the true nature of these non-humans, another article in Macedonian media revealed that Bill Clinton expresses regret that his illness ( not specified, and which he’s been hiding from the public ) is a direct result of his past actions. Lol, I thought, can it be the real butcher of the Balkans is connecting the dots and expressing regret for the countless lives he’s destroyed? Well, as it turns out, no! Bill apparently was saying that the sexual dalliances of his youth had finally caught up with him. The speculation was that he has some sexual transmitted disease, perhaps HIV.
For eschatological reasons Putin has to put his boot on the ground in Constantinople…because then ‘they’ will know the day of the Messiah is at hand. This follows on from when you hear the Russians have taken Crimea the footsteps of the Messiah can be heard. Haaretz had a story about the Vilna Goan and a prophecy regarding Gog and Magog…look it up.
Turkey is being set up…the slaying at the art exhibit is just one of many things planned…that eventually lead to falsely incriminating Erdogan et all…to engender it seems the requisite resolve in Russia to crush and control Turkey to thereby have Russia walk the preordained path.
Hillary was brought down by the reopening up of the investigation a week or so prior to the 8th. She was meant to lose. A pathos generating sacrifice. Poor old Trump is another form of pathos generator. Branded a Russian controlled puppet…a harebrained twit…his spokesman Preibus locked Trump in to accepting Russia interfered with the election if the Intel agencies concur. Obama admin says Obama warned Putin directly that interference with US election would be dealt with in accordance with the rule of war.
The agencies are to get back to Barry with their finding prior to inauguration day. Sure as eggs they will finger the Ruskies.
Trump has been fooled into believing the FBI is on his side. Its good cop bad cop.
The lone gunman who was killed in a hail of bullets? Someone definitely didn’t want him to talk.
He was also involved in the security of the Russian Embassy whilst he was an active policeman, so he was possibly familiar to any Russian security or even the Ambassador himself.
The attack took place at 6pm Monday. At 4:30 am on Tuesday, a lone gunman approached the US Embassy just across the road from the art center and fired several shots into the air. In spite of the US having issued a terrorist alert for the Embassy, he was not gunned down, but simply arrested.
Immediately after the ambassador attack, Russia i) declared the attack on its ambassador to be a terror attack and ii) Russian stated it was an attempt to divide Russian and Syria. In addition, Russia asked Turkey to be involved in the investigation and that has happened.
This looks like a replay of the handling of the failed coup attempt, with the US attempting deflect attention away from their (possible? probable?) responsibility for the attack (Obama vows retaliation as evidence for Russian hacking mounts). The claim is that their emabassy was attacked, and at the same time, by implication of how it is handled in the western MSM. They are desperate to prevent the escalation of responsibility into a declaration of the US as a state sponsor of terror, which is a possibity if Gulenists were involved as Gulen resides in the US and is reputedly connected to the CIA.
Saker: I wondered myself about where the ambassador’s security was?
However as I listened yesterday to RT’s coverage as this unfolded, one man stated, there is no such thing as 100 percent security Much the same as life.
Saker ‘Some will correctly say that the fall of Aleppo is a humiliating defeat for Turkey and Erdogan, and I agree”
Then you would be 100 percent mistaken. Aleppos liberation (interesting that you use ‘fall’?) came about through a deal between Turkey and Russia- There was mainstream media coverage on this- albeit very little of it- except at my blog apparently?
Turkey intentionally encouraged ‘discontent’ in the ranks- No supplies etc-
This deal between Russia and Turkey was first reported on in October of this year
With subsequent follow ups
The US was less then happy about Russia and Turkey’s cooperation. As was Israel.
Especially galling was the tripartite meeting today between Russia, Turkey and Iran to settle up the Syrian issue.
Putin “This murder is clearly a provocation aimed at undermining the improvement and normalization of Russian-Turkish relations, as well as undermining the peace process in Syria promoted by Russia, Turkey, Iran and other countries interested in settling the conflict in Syria”
Lone Wolf- no way
Erdogan- no way
Saker “Putin will do nothing harsh regardless of who is behind this murder”
Nothing harsh, just retribution on the QT
Putin “The killers will feel it”
I lean towards CIA/Gulen-
Infiltration of the police forces – well known
CIA/Gulen connection- well known
Second choice Grey Wolves/NATO
After all it was a Grey Wolf that killed an inconvenient Pope
I follow you.
It seems to me we need to take a broader look at the field of action. First, just to begin with a question as a sort of outline: Did the assassin and/or his handler(s) simply want to hit a Russian in retaliation for the liberation of Aleppo, or did they specifically want to hit Ambassador Karlov? The former is merely a formal option and so at least possible, but it seems the latter is more the “high confidence” hypothesis. If that is so, wha did they know about Ambassadr Karlov’s specific contribution to the liberation of Aleppo, and from what position would they have been able to knowwhat they apprently had to have known?
I suggest that such questions lead in a direction where there is a lot we do not know at all, and, at this point, it is good that we don’t know it. Basically, however, while the UN, the US, and the Europeans have been screaming their lungs out over there being no military solution, and a political solution has to be initiated, while claiming that Russia is only interested in a military solution, that is not true at all. The liberation of Aleppo is the achievment of the political process. Yes, with the combined Syrian et al. military component backing it up, but, as the Russian General Staff put it, they succeeded in doing what the Americans promised and did not do: separate the “opposition” from the Jihadis. That “separation” was the political process, and it will continue, now in the hands of Syia, Russia, Iran, and Turkey.
What was Ambassador Karlov doing in that political process? Was he negotiating with Turkey? Probably, actually, sure, that is what he was doing. But, given that Turkish-Syrian coordination is still taking baby-steps, was he also coordinating intelligence between Turkish “influenced” Jihadis, Syians, Russians inside and outside Aleppo? If the Turks said, ‘Look, we have cut out the supplies going to X, Y, and Z, and we believe we can get through to Group A and B,’ but the Russians and Syrians said they know Group B was being run by the Saudis with British or American coordination from Turkey, so they should not let Group B in on the mechanics of the process, in fact fkeep them out of it, utmost secrecy, especialy if those who were negotating really wanted to get away with their lives intact, maybe Ambassador Karlov was right at the center of that process, coordinating, negotiating, verifying intelligence, etc. Of course, the Russian Reconciliation Center was doing its part the whole time also, perhaps even smack in the middle of the still Jihadi-held neighborhoods of East Aleppo. (Would make for a nice thriller.) If so, Ambassador Karlov’s work was essential, which means he was an extraordinary person, professionally and culturally. Today’s meeting in Moscow between the Russian, Turkish and Iranian foreign ministers would then be the culimination and consoidation of months of work to which Ambassador Karlov contributed vry crucially. The crowning achievement of his life, even under the dark shadow of his death. — Do I exaggerate? I do not know, I am merely trying to understand the process and the wave that has swept the US of A out of having any say in the process of Syria’s coming peace and reconstruction.
That means pretty much only that we stop for a moment to appreciate what an extraordinary political-military feat the liberation of Aleppo is. Let me correct that: … try to begin to appreciate. Are there any historical parallels to it? I have no idea, but I doubt it. But without Turkey’s contribution to that process, it would not, could not have worked. But it did work, and it will continue working.
And if all of that — or something like that — is so, the assassin and his handler(s) intended to hit Ambassador Karlov for that reason, which means the intent was to stop the process by liquidating what they saw as one of its critical movers.
But the assassination doesn’t help the handler(s). It does not give them a bargaining chip to come back to the negotiating table. It will not stop the political process well underway. If the US comes back, under the new administration, — and, of course, the Russians are alwways readyx for that — they are in no position to dictate terms. Whatever the public statements, whatever the propaganda spin when the Syrians move on to retake their country, the segments of the “coalition” will be preoccupied digesting that reality.
Andrey Karlov was an extraordinary person and extraordinary diplomat. He was involved in all negotiations with Turkey, Kurds, Iran, and lately he was leading the negotiations with Syrian oposition. These last activities of Andrey Karlov I suspect made him a specific target.
Historical paralells? The assasination of the Russian ambassador (and great Russian writer) Alexander Griboyedov in Iran 1829.
An ex-cop doesn’t get to keep his Police ID card (his badge) after he is gone. He gets his civilian ID card back. Also, this guy was identified by some Kurdish media as a riot police cop working part-time as a bodyguard at Ertogan’s rallies in the past 2 years, the same time he has been a cop. Also, he has been shooting selfies with the President’s posters on the background, at political rallies, so he didn’t act as your typical die hard Gulenist who hates the regime.
It is also astonishing to see how easily the Ertogan regime claims that Kurds and Gulenists are behind every recent terrorist attack, and when some ISIS Jihadi goes on and blows half a street full of people, then the news are “spinned” so they will present the perpetrators as either Gulenists or Kurds, ie the President’s enemies.
But this guy seems to be a Nusra sympathizer, probably recruited by some Imam to “kill the Christian devil and avenge Aleppo” (and preventing the talks from happening, to the delight of the people who employ the Imam from across the ocean or the desert). This doesn’t mean he wasn’t Ertogan’s soldier in the first place, for Ertogan is an Islamist himself, let us not forget that. This guy was just a fool to be used as a pawn. And you can just see the hatred on his face when he shoots the Ambassador 9 times! This was not a pro hit by some agent. It was a murder by a fanatic. It seems Ertogan can’t even trust his own men anymore.
Blaming Erdogan for everything is so passe
If the sun fails to rise will it be Erdogans fault too..?
The incessant blaming of Erdogan positively reeks of agenda pushing- classic demonization/ad hominem
There are so many other players to consider
Don’t let a failure of imagination (9/11 reference) impede you from considering all possibilities
While I don’t at this time “blame” Erdogan directly. I do however fault him for providing an abysmal lack of security for the assassinated Russian Ambassador entrusted to Turkey. That said I find your rant here abhorrently ignorant of the fact that Erdogan is a poisonous two faced snake that can strike anyway which way at any time of the day depending on his mood and therefor can never ever be trusted. Just hope that Putin will finally now place him in the bottom of the snake pit and henceforth ever keep a weary eye on all of his slimy movements.
Dear Ray B:
Faulting Erdogan for lack of security?
Where was the Russian security?
“I find your rant here abhorrently ignorant …”
I find your rant abhorrently ignorant also- All your big assumptions included.
And your simplistic scapegoating.. you and many others
Putin has already made very clear he isn’t putting Erdogan or Turkey anywhere. How that must disappoint you?
My understanding is the security of diplomats is up to the host country. He got through because the Turks were in charge of his security, I don’t think the Ruskies would have made such an error. Their error was in trusting the Turks.
If you ask me, Obama did it. It is his revenge for H. Clinton.
NfG: I wouldn’t be the slightest surprised should the Ziomedia interpret the above as irrefutible evidence of Karloff rigging the Pindo Presidential election. The Pindos never take the lives of innocents, LOL.
Lawyers always tell their clients to never make threats… Good advice.
Barky-Boy and the senile Biden-Boy have been making threats… (these guys passed the bar exam?)
Now we see why it’s stupid to make threats… If the threatened act occurs, then people will assume you did it… It’s an old theme in literature.
So now the natural assumption, and the logical one that’s probably true? Obvious – Barky and his gang did it…
But that was obvious… What’s more interesting is what happens now that the murder has failed to get the desired results?
As General Ripper said at Burpelton AFB, “two can play that game, soldier”… (recall Strangelove).
Now let’s try to conserve our Precious Bodily Fluids, eh?
Great comment Delmar!:)
What if this guy was a Turkey security of the ambassador? That would explain how he had all the time in the world to do what he did…???
The video doesn’t make sense to me. Why does the camera zoom in after the shooting? What cameraman in his right mind is not ducking for cover?
1. The cameraman is in on it.
2. This is staged.
3. I may get flamed for this, but one of the possibilities that needs to be explored is a Russian false flag. They benefit. Is there footage of the ambassador shot? I’ve only seen before and after, and no face in the after. I know it’s a stretch (I love Russia and suspect the U.S. of most false flags) but to be fair to our desire to probe every incident, this needs to be considered as well.
Regarless, the video makes no sense given the cameraman’s actions. Not a single lone nut.
Yes, this is my feeling exactly – this video looks staged:
— A photographer is shooting a video of an ambassador giving a speech, and suddenly there are 6+3 rapid gunshots. And moreover, in that enclosed area with hard walls, the sound of a 9mm pistol, or whatever the weapon is, is going to be loud and shocking and terrifying. Yet photographer takes the time to re-aim his camera, adjust the zoom, and refocus? BS.
— Then the next we see mr. ambassador is lying neatly on his back with legs nice and straight, and left arm dramatically outstretched. Why doesn’t he fall in the direction away from the shooter, from the momentum of the impacting bullets, and land in more or less a crumpled mess? And meanwhile there’s completely no sign of any blood or exit wounds. This just doesn’t look right.
This then would explain the “lack of security” – it’s just fake.
Mind you, I wouldn’t criticize Russia and/or Turkey for doing this; it would be completely reasonable during a war to cooperate in staging a shooting in order to achieve some political or strategic objective.
I had the same feeling about Turkey “shooting down the Russian fighter jet”.
I’ve read every comment and yours is the only one questioning the details about what the public sees in the imagery. I would like to share with you my thoughts along those lines.
An AP (Associated Press) photographer was at the event and took photos (see: http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot/ )
We see what appears to be the shooter standing behind and to the left of the ambassador. Another man is standing to the right of the victim (see: http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161219121710-05-andrey-karlov-shooting-1219-exlarge-169.jpg ).
Take a close look at the pictures mounted on the wall behind the ambassador. They are from a still photograph (not the video ) that shows the ambassador positioned at an angle in front of one corner of the room. At first I thought the victim had moved from that location to where the podium was but now I realize that was incorrect, he was always at the podium.
We see another still photograph here (see: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c6138b54dce0bf74f20f260c4285744d4ab903ef91d40b8e33b868b9fd9315bf.jpg ) shot from a corner of the front area of the room showing the shooter yelling at the audience covering themselves in the back of the room, the ambassador lying on his back, and the man who was initially standing to the right of the ambassador in the first still picture lying down on his face, his arms up from his body slightly.
If we look at the video of the murder, no one is standing behind the ambassador as he is speaking into a microphone at the time of the shooting (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhD2eUp1SMw ). You can run the YouTube video at a slower speed by selecting the little “gear” settings icon and choose 0.25. In your browser window (Firefox or other), you can blow up the image to see more detail.
At this point, the pictures on the wall behind the ambassador are now different than the first pictures which means the video camera is capturing the ambassador’s speech squarely facing him. No one is standing directly behind the speaker. Next we see the bullet(s) hitting him and observe how he reacts. He starts to hunch forward as if he is shot from behind but afterwards we don’t see him lying in a prostrated position but instead in a supine position. His glasses violently flew off his head and wound up at the back of the room by the wall.
As you noted, the video camera lens changes but it zooms outward, not inward in the scene. Our Saker suggests the camera is in ‘autofocus’ mode which is possible. However later during the video we see the gunman ranting and moving out of the video frame and the camera does not zoom out further to capture his movements.
So here are my questions.
The ambassador was a heavyset man with the bulk of himself in his thoracic area.
1. How does a person built like that wind up on his back instead of his front when shot from behind? Remember the video shows him leaning forward as he is shot. Is it possible he was shot by another person in front of him at point blank range to his chest area (heart, arteries, etc.)?
The shooter was clearly not standing directly behind the ambassador when the shots were fired.
2. How does a right-handed shooter positioned behind and far left of his target, accomplish that kill shot from such a difficult angle?
3. Who took the picture from the front of the room?
PTT, I am not sure what you mean by question two. The shooter was only a few meters from the ambassador.
watch the video closely at or just before the 1 second mark. try and stop it at the very moment the ambassadors left shirt collar is flipped up. at that point, the ambassador drops quickly.
Yes, I understand the shooter was a short distance away but the shot delivered to the ambassador was square to the body in the region of the vital organs under the thorax. The shooter we saw moments later was not directly behind the victim which means the angle of the bullet from his gun could not have traversed on a parallel line but on an angle to hit the back if that in fact was the case. I’m not suggesting the shot is impossible it may in fact be, as I’m not a criminal forensic specialist.
Another point I neglected to mention is their was no signs of blood splatter either in front of the body or pooled underneath the deceased. You can zoom in on the still photographs as well as the video with the web browser’s magnification tool. I saw no sign of blood anywhere.
“Fake news.” Propaganda. Manufactured. No blood, white room. Bogus assassination.
The assassin after he was shot:
Mevlut Mert Altintas: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
2. He Was Killed During a Gunfight With Security Forces
[very bloody mess on a white background]
VERY INTERESTING…WILL SEE WHAT RUSSIAN INVESTIGATORS SAY ABOUT THEIRS INVESTIGATION TO PUBLIC…. OR EVEN BETTER THEIRS MILITARY REACTION IN FEW WEEKS/MONTHS …
“I should not have to tell you to not use all capitals. It is considered rude. Please do not do it again. fk mod”
Two short facts.
According to Russian embassy Mevlut Mert Altyntas/Aydintas was part of the embassy security team last week. He took a day off on the day of the assasination.
Turkish government nationalized the bigest asset of Gazprom in Turkey – Actel Holding.
Excuses my possible ignorance of the facts here Saker, but is it not time for Putin to finally lay down the facts and draw a red line, confront Turkey and idiot Erdogan? for his continued support of the Islamic ISIS terrorists state, operating from within Turkey against Assad and the Syrian Nation and it’s people or what? I don’t understand the meaning of diplomacy when the man is clearly playing a double game and carelessly allows for a Russian diplomat to needlessly be murdered by his own “ex” police forces. What the fuck is going on that they are either that incompetent in assuring any reasonable degree of security to an honorable ambassador, or are they in on the game. or just a bunch of fucking dilettante assholes running around trying to have it both ways, while not committing to anything? Just hope that Putin has now had enough of Erdogan’s fucking stupid insanity, lays down the law or mercilessly retaliates against what can only be described as another double cross and stab in the back yet once again. What will it take to wake Erdogan up to the fact that he is a dead man walking? be it by way of another US coup or Russia herself somehow taking him down.
I understand your anger and frustration. But one of the things Putin is teaching/reminding us is how diplomacy works, and how adults fight. Resorting to schoolyard bravado only aids the bully, they want you to resort to violence on their terms. This seems to be how the West does ‘diplomacy’, but no so in the East. The best revenge for His Excellency’s death is for Turkey to break away from NATO and join the SCO. If Russia and Turkey end up at war with each other, it would be the same victory to the AZ Empire as Sunni and Shia jihadis fighting each other.
The best revenge, as others have said, is success in Syria, the frustration of the AngloZionist Empire and its eventual defeat. His Excellency knew the risks, he is a soldier who died in the line of duty. If his death can be used by the Russians to secure victory, then one life to save thousands is a fair trade. This is a soldier’s sacrifice.
….A scenario you might not like….
….Maybe the RF should be less naive & more protective of their innocent diplomats in ‘dealing/negotiating’ with the devil….
The RF’s (limited here)armed forces are excellent in this Syrian theater, but against real&massive NATO air/ground power on foreign soil?….
Their diplomatic corps are genuine/honest/lawful/trustworthy, but in dealing with this devious enemy are regarded as weak, to be exploited….or, anything goes in love&war….
The terrorists are a proxy army put in place to work where NATO invasion is impossible + are a wonderful Arab demonization tool….
Turkey/Erdogan is a NATO foil to muddy the waters….
The cop was a patsy…..
….Poor Ambassador Karlov(so sorry) and Palmira2 are events to make you the fool….
….KibbutzUSA/UK/etc under current western leadership and ideology is armed to win TINA…. ….Murder&fear is the tool….So sorry Mr&Mrs(average)Syrian/European/American/Arab/Russian/Asian/etc/etc who just want to live a life in peace&love…..
Saker, you’re wrong. Russia has a different option, but won’t act on it. It can disintegrate Turkey, just like it could with the Ukr – but doing that would need a different ideology. An ideology, which is not the beloved globalism called multipolar world. Putin has saved Russia, but at this point he is major burden. He still tries to integrate Russia into the neoliberal global-political-economic order. Even after all the onslaught of propaganda against him and Russia in general, the political Russia is still open to go back to old business, i.e. to be part of the world capitalist order. Putin’s economic programs are a joke, a very sad one. Putin’s approach to the post soviet republics has given us banderite Ukrlandistan and an increasingly nationalistic post Soviet space.
In the past Russians, Soviets acted on the principle, that anything, which doesn’t violate the laws of nature, can be done. Nowadays they hilariously wait till daddy sam gives them fresh green paper or the international money cabal lends them some juries to live for another day or they tax their population to death, to get a pathetic budget, but let their elites steal billions, call them businessman and let them live in Zurich/London/etc.
Probably the richest country on earth, Russia chooses to live like a beggar. No large scale automisation, no nothing – just high interest rates and unsovereign money creation.
Any war is made up of 2 broad fronts, foreign and domestic. The foreign front can be thought to be made up of military, diplomatic, economic and informational objectives, while the domestic front can be thought to be made up of security, political, economic and the welfare of the people objectives.
On the foreign front Russia’s overall strategy seems clear, avoid war at any costs, including the lives of any ambassadors. Make alliances and stir up the enemies alliances to make more alliances, but overall still only be certain of the “army and the navy” and airforce and nuclear forces. All the while selling oil and gas and now agricultural surplus and armaments to nearly any who want to buy. So Russia’s foreign strategy is generally clear.
But Russia’s domestic strategy on the other hand is not to clear (to me at least). Europe generally has free health care, but Russia has moved away from free health care. Europe generally has low interest rates but Russia has high interest rates. In Europe the rich are taxed at much higher rates than the poor, but Russia does not seem to tax the rich that much as rich Frenchies are clamouring for Russian passports to escape tax in France. Both Russia and Europe have foreign owned central banks, at present, so have to obey the dictates of those central banks. Why not nationalize the central bank I don’t know.
So on the foreign front Russia is cautious, and correctly so. On the domestic front Russia is also cautious. Is it correct to be cautious on both the foreign and domestic fronts? I don’t know and I can’t say, “Russia is a mystery wrapped in an enigma”.
In Europe social security and especially health care coverage differs very much from one country to another, but the overall trend has been lately, to my knowledge at least, to reduce the general social assurance coverage of their habitants, due to budget restrictions. So, if it is true that Russia is moving away from ‘free’ health care, European countries are as well in the sense that they are reducing their social security coverage as well.
As for the tax rates being higher for the rich in Europe, our tax laws offer enough opportunities for the rich habitants to evade paying high taxes. Generally speaking and proportionally, the rich pay in fact less taxes than the middle class and poor.
So, if it is true what you are claiming in your comment, Russian domestic politics don’t seem to differ too much of ours in Europe.
The assassin did it for the money. Like a ‘suicide’ bomber he sacrificed his life for a ‘greater’ cause, but in this case that cause was promting his familiy to a vastly higher status across the next few generations. His sibs, cousins etc will be able to migrate to the UK or USA. Places in the best universities will be reserved for them and/or their kids in America and Britain. The Deep State rewards their tools in the standard ‘Roman’ way. Most of you here are so naive about how the CIA and MI5 recruits such people- and this despite the endless easily researched history of rewards for the native butchers of invaded nations like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc who worked with the invading armies of the UK and USA.
Anyone pushing the ‘lone nut’ idea is “Mr Disinfo”. But just because we know the killer was recruited and working for some Secret Service division of the West doesn’t mean we know who authorised the op. For instance, in the USA, there are many factions in the Deep State who work for the ultimate demon leadership – and they often work to differing agenda.
In this case, we have the classic “strategy of tension” but it is aimed at Trump. Craft a series of ‘terror’ events to set the stage for the big one- the one that takes out Trump. Makes the ending of Trump just seem like part of a terrorist upsurge, rather than a JFK/Operation Northwoods type operation.
There was a book by Agatha Christie called “The ABC Murders”. In it, the ‘strategy of tension’ method is used to disguise the real motivation behind a targeted killing. A terror campaign is orchestrated, with the intention of the blame to fall on a classic patsy. Meanwhile the real killer slips in the only murder they care about while Britain is in a craze about the series of ‘terror’ acts.
Most fools think such clever planning is a *recent* invention- and is still unlikely to be a method used by Secret Service departments that are funded to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year- as if in reality these people spend all year sitting on their thumbs.
Getting a muslim man to give up his own life so his family will have a massively improved status across the next few generations is the easiest task in the world. It’s a simple cultural thing- and works with the psychology of ‘soft’ organised religious brainwashing, *not* any type of extremism.
And now we have the second part of the *same* jigsaw puzzle, with the rapidly changing truck attack against the German Xmas market. With the actual driver mysteriously ‘vanishing’ after carefully planted lies about having the guy in custody, with have the same classic play as we saw during the 2004 Madrid Train bombings. In the coming days, the police will claim to track the perpertrator to a den of like-mined ‘fanatics’, and a shoot-out will see all the ‘fanatics’ killed. Big ending. All the patsies dead. Real story lost.
Before they do Trump as seemingly part of the same ‘pattern’, they are likely to arrange a few other ‘events’ first. I doubt if any of the ‘pre’ events will happen in the USA, for fear of warning Trump and his people too much. And BTW Trump will have privately recruited many ‘friendlies’ from within the security services to mingle with any crowd in plain-clothes, separate to any official protection operation. This ‘assassination’ by a ‘friendly’ also serves to make Trump distrust members of his own private protection operation- weaking his defense planning.
Not at all sure I understand what exactly you are trying to communicate twilight. Please try and translate your inter galactic outer space zone speak into some form of recognizable hominoid planet earths plain English language with many thanks in advance from your alien bothers living here on the orbiting blue planet.
To think the craziness, your mind must be free to think anything.
The guy is just predicting the future. It’s always some kind of crazy talk.
But makes sense to me since I also have the power to read the signs from the stars.
Or it could be Miss Vickie’s (Nuland/Knudleman’s) Captagon-laced cookies.
Most insightful comment yet. I fear you may be right. It would explain why, for the first time in ages, a political figure has been targeted, rather than a group of ordinary members of the public. (Other theories can, as well, of course.)
For those suspecting that the murder was staged, rather than real, I don’t agree. They did really kill the poor guy; may he rest in peace. Watching the video in slow motion, you clearly see his clothing balloon outwards near his left clavicle as the almost spent bullet reaches his skin, but it apparently doesn’t have the momentum to come out through his clothing.
A pistol bullet can kill instantly if it hits spinal cord or heart; there won’t be much bleeding from any exit wound because the heart stops pumping straight away. If the victim is overweight, there might be practically none , as the adipose tissue can close up again after the bullet has passed through it.
But the bullet won’t necessarily transfer enough momentum to force the body to collapse in the direction of the bullet’s motion. All muscles will relax instantaneously, causing the body to “drop like a sack of potatoes”, as they say. The torso goes almost vertically downwards, forcing the knees forward. By conservation of angular momentum about the feet, the torso therefore gets a slight backwards momentum. When the knees have flexed as much as they can, the torso can no longer go downwards, so it must rotate forwards or backwards. It will go backwards unless the bullet’s forward momentum was enough to counteract the backward momentum caused by the “potato-sack” fall. With a small pistol-bullet, it is perfectly natural for a standing person killed instantly by a shot from behind to end up on their back, spread-eagled.
(Part of the above analysis derives from the discussion below the line at Zero Hedge.)
Excellent comments, twilight and kgbgb. The simple tangible reward explanation makes much more sense than any outlandish theories about alleged CIA MK Ultra super powers or 72 virgins in paradise. No magic bullet, only useful idiots and tangible benefits.
Reminds me Wehrmacht General Hans Speidel, who in 1957 was promoted to the post of Supreme Commander for NATO Forces in Central Europe … no doubt in acknowledgment for his treasonary collaboration with the Normandy Invasion. Not an idiot, but very useful for Uncle Sam nonetheless.
This is one of my dilemma why they become terrorists in order to kill Muslim populations even for the money? There is also more to just for Wahabbist ideology. Is it also possible their family maybe kidnapped and blackmailed unless they do terrorism? It sure is bizzare, doesn’t make sense to kill self and other human beings who do them no harm.
1. Anyone know of any analytics being done on the photographs of the “taken out” assassin to compare him with the living one from moments before?
It’s a very common practice where political assassinations are used (gladio, grey wolves, gladio b, etc.) to use substitutions.
2. About the identified assassin, everyone immediately got into the is-he-a-serving-policeman / is-he-a-purged-gulenist-policeman argument without questioning whether he is he’s assuming.
It’s the easiest thing in the world to use fake ID at the best of times, and when thusands of policemen have recently been purged, there must be a vast stockpile of available IDs for the choosing.
3. People arguing that he was an “islamist” or jihadist on the basis of his shouting Alahu Akbar…??
I mean, for goodness’ sake, just how dupable have we become?
“Anyone know of any analytics being done on the photographs of the “taken out” assassin to compare him with the living one from moments before?
It’s a very common practice where political assassinations are used (gladio, grey wolves, gladio b, etc.) to use substitutions.”
Unfortunately it is not possible to do any decent forensic analysis of photos of this event based on what is available on the internet. All photos I’ve seen so far is the usual crappy jpeg’s, uploaded to twitter and displayed on various news outlets.
They are all compressed down to 50 to 100 kb’s and with a resolution of 72 dpi (dots per inch), which means that more than 80% of original pixels are gone forever.
In addition exif and IPTC embedded data are removed.
It is possible though, sometimes, to calculate and rebuild the missing pixels. This is a very time-consuming process, and with the material and info at hand, I have decided not to do this.
However, there are some of the photos that seems a little odd (videos too).
This one as an example: http://telemarksporten.no/Tyrkia/What.jpg
I saw a video yesterday with this very odd scene.
The death scene below, could have been interesting if original was available as well as a map with exact location and timeline of event.
I have been through, I believe all the “speculations” posted here, and could come up with a varieties of theories my-self, of which some might be partly true, and some not.
I will refrain though, except that there is something fishy here, and more than one thing.
I saw a video posted that was shot from the street, outside the building. I believe it showed the assassin, through the windows, on the second floor moving from the room along an open corridor (open to atrium and thus visible) and then falling to the floor where he was hidden by a half wall. Heavy police presence in street with police vehicles.
The assassin’s speech to the camera was a critical part of the event IMO and seemed rehearsed. He seemed distraught and emotional and says he expects to die. So he knew he wouldn’t be captured and questioned?
It was planned to be a media event.
It seems unlikely to me that it could have been successfully set up by a ‘lone wolf’ – not that I’m an expert in such matters.
Is this one of the only places of substance on the whole internet who doesn’t understand live action drills staged for public consumption purposes? or like other limited hangouts, there are topics that can not be discussed lest the narrative fall apart…
THIS GUY DIDNT DIE but he did just enter the private life…
no blood…ever…on WHITE floor/walls…ha…we are being TROLLED…
i mean c’mon – even with secured perimeter, u still have an armed goon next to the ambassador who would have dropped this fool before he finished firing…
i mean c’mon people – russians and americans “going to war” on land – yet friends in space?
Frenemies – the entire public is one giant frenemey factory…
Maybe the assassin was the assigned security man at a low key event. That would explain the lack of response from others, and give a reason for the Russians to have accepted that adequate security would be present.
Look at how the killer handles the gun, rests his finger alongside the trigger NOT on it, positions his body.. always in the same direction with the weapon. When not firing, barrel usually points to the floor. You don’t gain this skill in regular 6-month Turkish police training. He was trained by a very professional service, and as a Turk, I guarantee that his instructors weren’t Turkish. The ice-cold attitude, not showing slightest hesitation or panic, direct execution.. all points to the fact that he was also trained mentally. This was definitely a job of mossad/cia/mi6 trio aiming at sending a message to both turkey and russia
“Look at how the killer handles the gun, rests his finger alongside the trigger NOT on it, ”
They do that in all Holy Wood movies nowadays as well, and indeed in training.
However this delays your reaction time in a real situation considerably (up-to 1/2 second or maybe even more).
I never do that, it’s for brainwashed amateurs only. One week training for this shooters behavior and attitude should be quite sufficient,
No comments on your other points, as I don’t have any.
Condolences to the family of Ambassador Karlov. May you rest in peace sir.
This could and should have been avoided. I am surprised that Russian Diplomatic personnel do not have Russian security teams assigned to them for their protection, especially in areas such as Turkey. Do you not remember that Turks shot down a Russian plane and not so many months ago there was a coup attempt in the country?
Why would Russians entrust Turkey to provide security for their diplomatic personnel?? Should be 2 Russian bodyguards around Ambassador at all times with a larger team providing perimeter security and all diplomatic personnel should be wearing minimum level II body armor in public.
All other issues regarding who is responsible, etc… are a mute point as you should expect attempts such as this when you are involved in a war in the region and prepare for them properly.
I share your concerns. But one of the fascinating things about watching Russia at work is their use of Eastern principles. They left Palmyra practically undefended, either hoping their enemy would fall into the trap, or anyway it was not worth wasting forces to defend a place with no significant strategic value. Possibly their Ambassador was in a similar position. Little like the poor bugger walking Point, he either lights the way, or his death alerts the others. Left alive, he would have continued to do the great job he was doing. But if killed, would put pressure on Turkey to give more concessions, even maybe find Peace. It is this kind of clear sight that wins wars. Know your enemy, know yourself.
A video here showing the 45 seconds leading up to the shooting. Shows the shooter standing in the background looking very much like security.
The enlarged pic of the shooters lapel pin.
Looking at the way he is dressed, where he standing ect, he was the Turkish security in the room for the ambassador.
Gulenist is Erdo speak for CIA.
I don’t tire saying the same.
Is it possible that this diplomat may have been corrupt or done something we don’t know about and that he may have been sacrificed as he wasn’t needed anyway to justify retaliation?
This is a terrible topic to raise, while the people of Russia and Karlov’s friends and family are mourning. And I thought of it earlier today, too (at least the first part of your comment, about possible treason). Russian intelligence knew about a coup against Erdogan, just a few months ago, but they had no idea someone was targeting the ambassador? Russian intelligence in Turkey, which is comprehensive enough to identify the exact timing of a coup in the works, wouldn’t keep track of their own ambassador?
It may be that the Russians and Iranians did indeed lay down the law to Turkey. The press briefing by the FMs, in my mind, speak volumes. The Turkish FM made it clear that they (Turkey) respect the territorial integrity of Syria.
Russia, Turkey and Iran are to be the “guarantors” of the peace process in Syria and call on all groups to lay down arms. Not unexpectedly, this does not include ISIS, Al Nusra and co.
I agree with Peter AU. The shooter was likely the security provided for the Russian ambassador that day. The shooter, had he been rational, would have known he was on a suicide mission. It strikes me he was behaving like a subject in an MK Ultra type project. He had all the appearance of a man who thought he would survive what he had done. I don’t think Erdogan is behind this. More likely something the wahabist Saudis might try (with the help of a Western deep state agency). The Saudis must gain the caliphate or be overthrown. Nothing would suit them better than to break down an uneasy alliance between Russia and Turkey.
Something is telling me that or the Syrian political security directorate or the Syrian military intelligence directorate is heavily involved in the assassination of Karlov. Possibly for numerous reasons. Few people were sniffling about this when I was on duty. I’m open to change thoughts.
There is still one month to Trump’s inauguration on the 20th of January 2017: until then it is still Obama administration and neocons in charge: everything may still happen! Even on Donbass front they staged another attack, but they were repelled.
A voicerecording that was being shared on social media in particular whatsapp after the murder of the ambassador and in which a voice alleged that the us was planning a civil war in Turkey, a voice that was initially being attributed to mit director Hakan Fidan, now turns out to belong to the head of the Diriliş Başkanları Derneği, Hasan Türksel(a ngo/organization dedicated to restoring ‘Osmanist’ culture) as stated in a press release by DBD
“Surely at this point ‘Allegedly…’ not ‘turns out…’.
Please give this topic the full sobriety it deserves. If you make such a claim, offer evidence. And even if you help by translating, please make sure that all your punctuation is clear and intact. fk mod “
Anybody considering that this was a false flag? Russia and Turkey get a cause celebre and justification for further purges/agenda advancing. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for Russia and its overall agenda.
Think about it – no blood on the floor from 5 or more bullet wounds. The cameraman adjusts his view frame at the right time, the shooter doesn’t threaten him. We have no images of the subtle lead up to the shooting and exactly how the victim went down. Who falls into a perfect arms splayed, resting on his back?
Perhaps you have seen too many Hollywood movies? Just sayin’ – fk mod
Can anyone tell me where the 5 or more bullet wounds story is coming from?
A link to some reporting
Yesterday as it occurred the reporting via RT- Live said TWO shots-
Two shots were fired at the Ambassador- so where is the news of 5 to 8 shots coming from?
I’d like to see that.
And this forum would, no doubt, love to hear what evidence you find and what conclusions you make. fk mod
I think I count 8 shots on the soundtrack of video that Peter AU linked to above at 5. 03 pm. It also clearly shows that the assassin was doing an amazingly good impression of being the Ambassador’s official security detail, if he wasn’t actually exactly that.
The no-blood-on-the-floor problem has been satisfactorily resolved in the discussions at Zero Hedge that I linked to above. (The discussions included experienced hunters and military men; I found it convincing.) I also explained the initially surprising final position of the deceased’s body in that post. The slight panning of the camera and the zoom-out could easily be the result of the camera-operator hurriedly removing their hands from the controls of the camera as they realise that this would be a good time to run, leaving it unattended on its tripod.
Also, Jim Stone is convinced it was a real assassination, and I’ve found him to be pretty reliable in the short time I’m been reading him — except for his theory of Continental Drift, of course. (He’s the only person I know of who was saying before the Electoral College vote that it was going to be Clinton, not Trump, that would suffer from significant defections.)
For some reason, the link to Jim Stone didn’t work in that comment. Maybe I mistyped, or maybe this website’s software doesn’t like being given the (numerical) I.P. address of a website. Jim’s website is actually http://22.214.171.124/ .
He doesn’t use a normal alphabetic URL because he expects The Empire to soon start fiddling with the computers that resolve the human-friendly URLs into the numerical I.P.’s that you need for actual communication. He strongly advises owners of independent websites to ensure that there is a one-to-one correspondence between their domains and I.P. addresses, and to publicise the latter as well as the former.
For details, go to the front page of his website (which is gigantic) and search for the sentence “The ip address will only work if the domain at that IP is dedicated to that IP only.” It might be worth the administrator of the Vineyard having a look.
“Perhaps you have seen too many Hollywood movies? Just sayin’ – fk mod”
Probably he has, but haven’t we all??
False flag?? maybe, but, why, for what purpose and how??
Psy-OP? Definitely yes, (does not exclude false flag). There is a clear message here, from whom to whom is anybody’s guess ATM, but rest assured, the involved parties do know, and please do not exclude any party to be stage managers, (or part managers) in this event.
Significant events like this, never happens randomly, and out of the blue, even if is appear so in the ever more fragmented societies in which we live.
Altıntaş is said to have earlier guarded the Russian embassy during the protests.
This video (https://sputniknews.com/world/201612201048804218-ambassador-murder-video/) shows him walking up and down and fidgeting behind the Ambassador (there were other people standing close to him, including one before a mike, besides the Ambassador, while a woman who seemed to be taking notes.)
The fact that no one tried to stop him may suggest he was recognised and assumed to be again on duty…
Sound of gunshots comes before gun is clear to point and shoot.
Sputnik link is to same video I linked to above, but at a different twitter account.
My link from above https://twitter.com/Altmimy_1/status/811173402811781120 sound matches.
All this rubbish about faked and stages is getting to be too much people
As I listened to RT yesterday as this event unfolded it was reported, quite clearly two shots hit the ambassador- TWO SHOTS
Because it’s reported that as many as 8 shots were fired does not mean the Ambassador was shot eight times!
It simply means 8 shots were fired.
Here is wsj
“The video taken at the event shows Mr. Karlov at the podium surrounded by framed artwork and then physically flinching when two gunshots are fired at him apparently from behind”
correlates with early reporting of the Ambassador taking two shots- not eight shots
He flinched and started moving to the side at the first shots, clearly in pain. A projectile then exited under his left shirt collar at which point he dropped. Later, not in the above videos, apparently the shooter stood over him and fired another one or two shots.
If it’s not in the video then we cannot know it took place- so we have verification of two shots hitting the Ambassador and that’s all we got- Which correlates with the reporting.
Are we being serious here or just throwing out wild claims? Cause I’m being serious.
Serious Penny? All we have is what is visible and audible on the videos. It was a media event, mostly media present, so a number available.
Their have been different media reports that have changed over time. all that remains constant is the video/audio.
Serious…. many are serious about their version.
“Later, not in the above videos, apparently the shooter stood over him and fired another one or two shots”
Peter you claimed and I’ve quoted you- “later, not in the above video the shooter stood over him and fired another one or two shots”
Is there video of these additional shots? I’ve not seen it. I’ve seen lots of video- had a video posted at my blog- google took it down- it did not show what you are alleging.
Do leave a link if you can, I would appreciate that a great deal.
I’m not accusing anyone of anything I’m just pointing out what we can know and what we can’t know via the video and audio
We can’t assume hearing shots tells us those shots hit the Ambassador?
They could have hit walls, ceilings other persons- as there were reports of 3 other persons injured.
I’m talkin’ straightforward logic- for a claim of 8 shots being fired into the Ambassador there would minimally have to be video footage of 8 shots being fired at the Ambassador. And even if you had the type of footage you still could not assume every bullet hit the Ambassador-
I’m a bit of a stickler for details.
You might be right that he was only hit by two bullets, original reports said he was still alive. But there were other people on that stage, and another angle shows another body on the floor. Who were these people (other bodyguards?) What haven’t we heard about them?
Earthrise: Correct it was not verified he was killed till sometime shortly after-
I’ve seen the image of the other person on the floor- Don’t know if he was shot? Could be?
Maybe he just hit the floor? It’s an unknown and should not be speculated on at all.
This is how wild crazy gossip gets spread all over the place and will certainly get alternative sites shut down for spreading ‘false news’
Which is why I find it so maddening that so many are willing to gossip and spread hearsay without thought or comprehension of the potential ramifications of their actions
Not you in particular – However all this drivel will give the state exactly what they want to shut the alt/independent media down
I left my verification of two shots- hopefully that will clarify- there is also video which I’m off to find
I’ve updated at my blog with the WSJ and when I have the video it will be at my blog too
Thank you, Penny. I apologize if I seem snarky. Lots of idle speculation on the forum. And I am swamped with silliness. I do not number your post among it. I do feel that Saker’s post on the topic is quite exhaustive and perfectly logical. So, go for it. -fk mod
Thank you for that exhaustive analysis.
You have really laid it out for all to see.
More than I can say for some forums and all CIANN-controlled mass media.
Recall the assassination of the archduke in 1914 and you probably have the motivation behind this as well: to stampede the cattle into playing another round of “Let’s you and him fight” to benefit the conspirators.
These people are programmed to be pattern-thinkers. Their repetition of the same few, stereotypical ploys eventually identifies them. (And being pattern-thinkers, as widely noted by now, when these tricks fail they can only “double down.” Creative imagination is not their strong suit).
Note also the suspiciously high quality, professional image quality with ideal, black against white definition. This was designed for effective broadcast impact.
Russian lawmaker Alexey Pushkov, of the Duma’s foreign affairs committe, is correct when he said following the death of Andrey Karlov that the West bore responsibility because its hysteria and fabrications about events in Aleppo have fostered a climate of deranged hatred towards Russia.
When the Turkish assassin raised his pointed gun at Karlov, he declared that he was acting in memory of “civilians killed in Allepo”. But who gave him the image of being a legitimate target for “payback”? Who filled his head with (false) images of carnage and horror against civilians in Aleppo?
In answering those questions honestly, the conclusion is that Western governments, diplomats and media directed the gun that murdered ambassador Andrey Karlov.
Excellent to see your appearance here, Mr. C;
Once again I see the “blame Russia” meme so common raises it’s ugly head here.
I’d like to ask – how many Ambassadors get assassinated in the course of their duties? World wide?
We actually dont’ see Ambassadors getting shot, stabbed or otherwise attacked on a daily basis .Even, dare I say, a yearly basis. The last Russian ambassador killed in the line of duty was, I think from memory, about 70 – 90 yrs ago.
The thing is, there is a ‘deal’ that goes on around the world. It’s the same as the Foreign Embassy deal. A Russian embassy in Washington is, in fact, Russia. It’s Russian soil. This is accepted practice world wide. And its acceptance runs very deep. It’s why neither America nor UK would dream of invading the Ecuadorean Embassy to snatch Assange. Ecuador is tiny – but not the rest of the world combined, all of whom would jointly turn on anyone doing such a thing.
Well, it’s pretty much the same with Ambassadors. They *are* their country. Notice that, in the case of the deliberate murder of 2 nurses, of the downing of a Russian jet liner with hundreds of Russian lives lost, there was not one word of sympathy from the rest of the world? Notice the outpouring of condemnation over this killing of one man, from just about everywhere? It’s because it has broken a universal law, that such must be held to be outside the range of any sort of activity, simply because World interaction of a civil nature depend on recognition of this law: that Embassies, their staff and Ambassadors are never to be touched.
Every single country knows that once this rule is broached – if not vehemently protested, anyone of them, their Embassies and their Ambassadors, will be at risk. They depend on the trust engendered that Embassies, their staff and their Ambassador are inviolable. The world turned on Iran for ages for breaking that rule.
So – it’s normal for Russia, along with all other nations, to believe that it would not be necessary to do more than post guard at the Embassy door.
Moreover, this sacrosanct agreement states that the host country is responsible for all care of the Embassies and their staff. To have dressed the Ambassador up in bullet proof vest and make him be accompanied by armed Russian bodyguards is to tell the host country that it isn’t trusted.
This completely wrecks any point in being there. There can be no negotiations, no fostering of good will and trust and amicable relations, which is the major job of Ambassadors to foreign countries.
The atmosphere is wrecked before you start.
Russia was entirely within it’s reasonable criteria of decision to accept it had to trust to Erdogan to protect the Embassy and it’s Ambassador, and that Erdogan, for all his apparent craziness, isn’t’ mad enough to broach this sacrosanct, world wide agreement.
Who ever did this went way way beyond the pale – and they know it. Some retaliation will happen, somewhere somehow. And the rest of the world has to know it – they have to know what happens when you do this to Russia – or no Russian will be safe again anywhere. And that Putin cannot allow to happen.
But please, at such a time, when once again Russia is under attack by the bastards of the West, when Putin and his team have once again a heartbreak to bear – stop this tiresome bloody Russia bashing. [And please, dont give me it’s “just reasonable criticism”. Is that what you do if a parents’ belief in trust of care means a child is killed?? Turn on them with criticism within the following 5 mins.? Give me break}.
Right on, Isa
It’s a pity that there are not more people around here endowed with a clear mind like yours, who can express clear thoughts through words and not nightingale thrills at twilight.
You are very kind Wiz Oz. Thank you.
The fact that celebration of his death was allowed to run in a couple of US media outlets is beyond outrageous. The game is becoming more dangerous it seems to me.
Every player in the Syria game seems to be working on multiple levels of betrayal.
“Evidently Karlov was not wearing any kind of body armor that day. Why? He did not have a single bodyguard next to him. Why? No Russian voices are heard on the video, so there appears to have been no Russian security anywhere near the ambassador. Why?”
The answer is in the question, the ambassador clearly & evidently felt safe. The question I would then ask – why did the Russian ambassador to Turkey feel safe? Answer: Erdogan’s purge gave the diplomatic core a false sense of security, despite terrorist attacks elsewhere, they seem to have made a huge assumption that Russians would not be targeted & could not be targeted because Turkish security has got the country on lock down. Evidently not. The other reason is that SVR lacked intel that such an attack could/would happen. And this is shocking. Why? Because John Kirby at the US State Dept issued a threat recently about Russians returning home in body bags. The US just made real on that threat. It is clear as day to me that the US is behind it & obviously the CIA or their buddies at MI6 organised this through their jihadist proxies. There had to be a fair amount of logistical work put into the assassination plot, knowing the schedule of the ambassador, where he would be & when, what his security detail would or would not be. As Putin said, it is a provocation, & a threat to say if you (Russia) harm our operatives on the ground in East Aleppo, & anywhere else in Syria when/if you may come across them, we will act first preemptively. An obvious response to this would be to say that now Russia has an incentive to kill these agents in Aleppo, but that is exactly the point, they are being warned off. The Anglo-Amero empire is sending its message, we will hurt you bad if you continue to defy us. That is how I read this, as a kind of preemptive strike to make real on Kirby’s threat & also to warn Russia off from capturing & interrogating the intel operatives in Aleppo that have been cornered by the SAA.
If I were an American ambassador anywhere, I would be afraid, very afraid. The protocol has been breached, and all hell is going to break loose…
With the killer being in the police,some even say he had guarded events the Ambassador went to before. It wouldn’t have been hard to know events he might be at. This one was a public cultural event concerning Russia. It seems to me the killer/killers would have found it easy to know he would be there.I do agree that they had a false sense of safety about Turkish security. But if it was a “warning” to Russia. I seriously doubt the Russians will be “scared” over it.And decide to start “obeying” the US. They might remind the US as the general did when that subject came up a month or so ago. That “path” is a “two way” one. And they can strike US targets just as easily if they need to.
I doubt that the Kremlin would be scared either, if this assassination was what I think it was, a warning, but that’s not the point anyway. It’s more specific than that, hence my reference to these agents in east Aleppo, I suspect that it is very specifically connected to that. I have know way of knowing that, it’s just a hunch, based on a bit of logical deduction. Let’s put it this way, unless it was a lone crazed gunman incident – which I personally absolutely reject – than this is a message of some sort, being sent to the Kremlin. So if I’m investigating this – & without divulging too much info I do have a vast amount of experience in criminal investigations – I would be asking the question: who is sending a message & why? It’s clearly to do with Syria, the rantings of the assassin gave that away & tell us that he in not a lone operative – just as an aside as well, why would Turkish security personnel have info about the Russian ambassador’s movements & whereabouts? I rule that out as well. So he is acting on someone else’s behalf, it’s to do with Syria – what? What just happened? East Aleppo has been almost entirely liberated, the die hards left over apparently consist of foreign operatives, according to al-Jafaari, Syria’s UN ambassador, the West has been going skitz about the fate of these operatives. It’s a big deal, as he himself stressed, because it’s smoking gun evidence that Western countries are directly working with terrorists, not indirectly, but directly, to the point where they have command-control functions. That opens up a can of worms. So I may be wrong, I could say a lot more, but this would turn into a technical analysis, those are just some of my thoughts on the matter for what it is worth.
Frankly,I won’t believe the story on the agents until I see video of them captured. There are too many claims made by all sides to accept something on good faith. Even when we support the side making the claim. If we hear that they escaped later. Then I’m certainly going to think they never existed to begin with.Not that there might not have been agents there. But that they never were really identified or captured.
UK has already admitted having both British SF soldiers directing artillery on the ground and RAF personnel directing targeting for Saudi jets in Yemen.
I find it unlikely that they would balk at doing the same for their ‘moderate rebels’ in Syria, (in the humanitarian interests of spreading democracy, of course. /sarc. )
I get your reasoning & normally would be inclined to agree, only in this case – where most of our opinions will be based on secondary & tertiary sources, rather than primary physical evidence in real time- the credibility of the source, for me, is a deciding factor in whether I take the claim seriously or not. In this case the source was Bashar al-Jafaari, Syria’s ambassador to the UN, whom I doubt would stake his credibility by making such a specific & detailed claim, to the point of reading names off a list, if there was little to it. So yes, there have been all kinds of conspiratorial claims over the years re: Syria, embedded US special forces with tattoos seen with ISIS, Mossad & IDF colonels captured by Iraqi military operating as ISIS commanders & the like.None of which, as far as I know, has ever been verified. Fars news agency puts out a lot of that kind of thing. But in this case I suspect the claim is credible, not only because it is being backed by al-Jafaari, but the logic of what he says makes sense, the West has gone ape over Aleppo & there is more to it than just the defeat of their proxies in strategically critical operational zone. Considering the fact that the UK military, & US are training jihadists in Jordan, & captured jihadists have testified to being flown to Qatar for training by US private military contractors, there is no doubt that there are many covert operatives on the ground in the ranks of the jihadists. The list is interesting because of the number of Saudis on it, I suspect one reason for this – other than the obvious support that KSA provides jihadist forces, is to ensure the safety of Western & Israeli embedded operatives, probably acting almost as bodyguards for them.
With the US reneging on agreements, making all these threats and imposing sanctions, and demonizing Russia with lies, I think it’s now not possible to have normal diplomatic relations with the US — and there are signs than various countries are reaching that conclusion, and hetting on with business and diplomatic relations with the US left out. This might have ‘retaliation’ (for non-existent acts by Russia’, but at the least all the anti-Russia rhetoric and actions condone such violence by others, and encourage terrorists.
Even with Trump becoming president, both the reactions against him, and the continuing presence of neocons/libs and war mongers, make clear that relations with the US are fraught with danger and treachery, and should be avoided. The US is a rogue state and in the process of making itself into a pariah.
Look at the appalling
Assassination of Russian Ambassador Andrei Karlov was not terrorism, but retribution for Vladimir Putin’s war crimes
From a major New York newspaper, calling the assassination ‘justice’ — quotes from the article are too disgusting to copy over to here. So this is the deranged US and it’s news media now, to a very great extent, where terrorism is officially and unofficially supported, by money, arms, military training, and propaganda, and lies, torture, and war crimes are the norm, and whose actions have unleashed violent chaos in Europe and around the world. The US must be quarantined.
I agree with you. And if you’ll notice the reporter was “another” zionist Jew. They dominate the US press,and certainly the NY press. All, or almost all, are Russophobes. And those, like the author of that article are totally disreputable human beings.
I would say that the American society suffers from many illnesses, but, after this sordid campaign, I can conclude that one of the most serious is clearly this obssesion in seeing all as a conspiracy, obviously fuelled in this craziness by interested parts who are not who the people are thinking they are, and are doing this with agenda, some of them from decades ago.
Finally, I must say that I find all these speculations on the assassination of Mr. Karlov being a fake event as an unbearable disrespect to the widow, family and friends and by extension to all the Russian people.
There is no more than to see that woman to understand that the man has really dead, but, obviously, to understand this is not at hand of everybody.
So, yesterday, here it was not allowed to make any analysis and only give condolences, and today this?
The degree of shamelessness in this blog is reaching umparalleled boundaries.
Fair call Elsi,
Maybe the mourning period was not enough. But in our post-Truth world, this kind of questioning is valid as we all decide collectively what is True. I don’t think it was faked, yet, but there are some questions to be asked. After 9/11, anyone blindly believing MSM reporting is part of the problem. The questioning is valuable, even if just as an opportunity to set the record straight. We are amateurs without solid information trying to discern a world we can’t see; reading tea leaves, watching shadows move and counting the number and spacing of ripples. It is only collectively we can discern the Truth, which is why I dare say most of us are here.
Right on, Isa
Bless you Elsi, always of common sense and civilized perceptions.
NY Daily News Joins Daesh in Celebrating Assassination of Andrey Karlov
“As world leaders and ordinary people expressed their horror following the assassination of Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov, New York Daily News (NYDN) writer Gersh Kuntzmann openly celebrated the public execution, calling it an example of ‘justice [being] served.’
“As Vladimir Putin’s man in Turkey, Karlov was the public face of that murderous dictator’s war crimes around the globe and of oppression at home,” Kuntzmann wrote. “I, for one, am shedding no tears for Andrei Karlov.”
Kuntzmann also repeatedly compared the assassination of Karlov to the killing of Ernst vom Rath, a Nazi German embassy official shot dead in 1938 by Jewish teenager Herschel Grynszpan, while also likening Vladimir Putin, the leader of the government that Karlov served, to the infamous dictator Adolf Hitler. “Like Karlov, Rath was the public face of atrocity — in this case, Adolf Hitler’s genocide, anti-Semitism and coming global aggression… [history] has vindicated Grynszpan — and, indeed, vindicated others who have fought against aggression and fought for freedom.”
Jesus, what a subhuman futa chunk of govno this kuntzmann is.
Saker, There is absolutely no distinction between Daesh and Co. and the USA/CIA. The former are mercenaries of the latter!
Please, don’t nobody mention israel, or oded yinon, it might upset the Jewish zionazi pr machine.
Thanks for your understanding in this delicate matter. You know those goys, they are so unpredictable and emotional, best leaving the important stuff to us, eh.
You all complicate too much.
That guy 22 years old Turk committed the crime.
Behind him was a terrorist “islamic” cell.
The cell received order and money by a “person” who has links to MI5 or CIA.
The culprits will never be found.
The Russians don’t need the evidence, they know 100% that it was done by the UKUSA governments. I know too.
The Natoists will try to muddy waters but will not succeed.
By the way
Zhirinovski accused the British.
NATO = North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.
And don’t forget the US is the most important and the strongest member of the NATO.
The most of people – when they say the NATO think without the USA, why?