Joe Rogan has interviewed Michael Osterholm. This is the Wikipedia entry under his name, and this is how Rogan introduced him on YouTube: “Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book “Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs” for more info: https://amzn.to/2IAzeLe and http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/
I think that we can all agree that the man knows what he is talking about. Below, I will post the full interview, but these are, in my opinion, the most important excerpts in which Osterholm debunks the two biggest canards about this virus: NO, it is NOT “just like the flu” and NO this is not some kind of bioweapon. Listen for yourself:
By the way, most Russian experts also agree on both of these points: this is way more dangerous than just a flu and this is not some kind of bioattack.
I hope that these rumors will go to the same mental graveyard as the silly theory that the US shot down the Ukrainian airliner over Tehran.
Again, I WANT TO WARN OUR COMMUNITY: in times of crisis, fear and uncertainty, it is very hard to resist the temptation to clickbait. In fact, what we see is a strong inflation of all sorts of completely groundless theories. To my immense sadness, I have to add here that A LOT of putatively “pro-Russian” websites or “alternative news” websites are now engaging in a massive and absolutely shameless clickbaiting efforts: remember that most of them allow commercials ads so every click means money for them! Do not get conned by these efforts – all they want is your money and they will say pretty much anything to get you to click on that “shocking headline”.
Now I leave you with the full interview:
I don’t trust Wikipedia.
Yes, a lot of the YT vids are “click baiting”.
But doesn’t mean what they’re “click baiting” about is not true, just exploiting it.
I don’t trust Wikipedia
Compared to the clickbaiters, Wikipedia is a paragon of honesty :-)
But doesn’t mean what they’re “click baiting” about is not true, just exploiting it.
If a news item is not fact-based or when it is based on pure conjecture, then it is essentially a lie and, potentially, a dangerous ones.
As for clickbaiting – I consider it a form of war profiteering.
To each his own, I suppose.
I agree with your statements about rumors and silly theories.
That being said I think there is a general sense that there is much going on in the halls of power, with the virus as cover, that will negatively affect society for decades to come (9-11 anyone?). Unfortunately this allows the “clickbaiters” to run wild, as information about the inner-workings of government is scarce. It may be a simple case of “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”
I suspect much of the current palace intrigue won’t be evident for years.
Read about what is happening in Serbia, and Albania, if you want to know how bad this can get … and I don’t mean the virus.
What abot this , Saker ?
Dr. Tedros, the Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO) repeated what he said already a few weeks ago, that there are about 20 pharmaceutical laboratories throughout the world that are developing a vaccine for the novel coronavirus, named COVID-19, also called 2019-nCOV, or SARS-CoV-2. For the layman, it is just a stronger mutation of the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) virus, that broke out in 2002 / 2003, also in China. To be sure, a mutation made in a laboratory. In a US high-security biological warfare laboratory. In other words, both SARS and COVID-19 – among many other bio-war agents – were made in the US.
And now, the chaotic western-style race of private corporations for a vaccine wanting to outdo one another, has begun. — https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-fight-cure-western-pharma-rip-off/5707360?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
Who you going to trust Rogan ( a Zionist Talking Head ) or Orlov?
Orlov said months ago “Just look at the targets, Iran, China, & Italy’s Chinese factory’s”
Enough said, if it only hits the enemy’s of Zionism, then its pretty clear it was created & unleash by zion
The narrative here is that “Nature” hates Iran-China ( & Chinese factorys in Europe ) just as much as Israel hates Iran. Yep, that’s a natural outcome. ( Yinon Plan )
Orlov’s most recent comment on the Corona virus:
“Overall, what people need to understand is that for most of them getting infected with this particular coronavirus (which is one out of many in circulation) would be a nonevent. This one is present in bats (which don’t get sick from it) and was most likely spread to humans through accidental contact with bat guano.”
So even Orlov does not buy into your conspiracy theory.
I agree that last month Orlov was passionate that this virus was unleashed to destroy China & Iran, now its all a big joke. I suspect next month he’ll have become infected like Boris & Trump and be living in a FEMA camp.
Michael Osterholm ( OP interview ) say’s the virus is a big-deal, Orlov now say’s the virus is a nothing-burger. So which is it?
There are three recent movies about Viruses killing the USA
All the Hollywood Zionist movies use the narrative being run right now.
Becoming infected with COVID-19 may be a fairly minor event for most, barring any longer term complications coming to light. Nevertheless in the short term, COVID-19 will still be a life changing or life ending event for many thousands and quite possibly millions before it has run its course.
At present there is not enough information to be at all certain as to the origins of the current pandemic. Your conjecture, that it came from bat guano, has no hard evidence behind it and is simply an alternative theory that you have bought into. The early and very hard pushing of the “from bat” theories by certain countries, give an indication being intended to deflect attention from other and possibly more criminal possibilities.
For now I reserve judgement, as to the true nature of the current pandemic.
“was most likely spread to humans through accidental contact with bat guano”
Based on what evidence ? There is none. Key words which need to be noticed when reading any article/comment are “most likely”.
Why “most likely” ? What excludes other possibilities to be just as “likely” ? Empty words.
Mutations take time which implies that if it happened in the Market then it was very fast. Better info on this topic is found here IMHO,
A strain from Coronaviridae with more than one spike protein. Yeah, sure it came from a bat /s
times of israel March 26, 2020. mossad brings another 400,000 COVID-19 test kits to israel. doesn’t give country name where from.
times of israel March 19, 2020. mossad brings 100,000 COVID-19 test kits to israel. doesn’t give country name where from.
1. which country puts israel ALWAYS before his/her citizens, and immediately obeys israel’s orders and gives everything they ask for free?
2. NY governor criminal deblasio wants 30,000 ventilators immediately and more later. criminal trump says he doesn’t believe that many are needed. deblasio will give NY 3-4 thousand and the rest will be gifted immediately to israel for free as “surplus” . just like billions worth of material from Iraq ( send to iraq excessively on purpose) were diverted to israel from truck tires to tents to medical supplies, you name it as “surplus”, because it’s “cheaper” to send it there then to return to US warehouses.
any reasonable comments…
Yes, trust your guts and don’t the words of commentators and analysists asbtrue gospel. Everyone has agenda, keep that in mind. The best you can hope for is semi biased ‘grey’ analysis which you always should take with grain of salt, even this site’s articles.
Thanks, Saker, and commentors.
As soon as this gentleman got into scare tactics, he lost me. Scare tactics are most certainly to be avoided at this time, because as I understand it, the virus is operating in a cumulative fashion coupled with input from a patient’s own immune system. Stress can amplify this, and that’s why hospital workers are at risk. To my mind stress is being deliberately manipulated as the test for the virus is being featured as if it were hugely important, when we know that the main thing about it is how easily it is passed on. So the numbers are simply telling us that more people have been tested, and that testing is being strictly manipulated. So, it isn’t that the numbers of people infected is growing; it is that more than we currently know have been exposed and are doing fine.
Stress also is one of the factors triggering our system to react in ways that encourage viral activity. We need to avoid it as much as possible, while finding out how to cope with an invading organism. I’m sorry, but this sounds too much like ‘shock and awe’. And to my mind it is very possible we can weather the viral storm and defeat it in a much shorter time than is being disseminated here. It’s better to believe this than to go the TINA route we all know is bogus.
Did any Russian scientist openly declared that 911 was a nuclear false flag attack?
No. They never dare to talk about it.
Russia can not even criticise Israeli open aggression in Syria. How they will dare to talk about possible Biological weapons?
People are so naive about Russia. Russia may have some issues with Liberal factions of the west, like Soros and Co, but they are without any doubt under Zionists control. It is not a big secret. All far right Israel friendly parties in Europe are friend of Russia with the exception of Ukraine.
So to claim that Russian will touch something bigger than 911 is absurd.
There is a huge difference between a statement saying that it is not a bioweapon attack and that there is no evidence whatsoever that this is a bioweapon attack. In fact, Osterholm says the latter.
Also, I would take everything with a grain of salt from someone who is an advisor to the WHO and the Department of Defense (DoD). Just sayin’…
Anon I completely agree!
I saw this interview a week or so ago and my thoughts at the time were that this person is hiding a lot.
His history of involvement in US Bio “research” is the pointer. I also noticed that he only mentions countries other than the US as being involved in Bio Warfare, completely avoiding the topic of US Bio warfare. He is clearly not willing or not able to tell the whole truth.
I took this interview with a grain of salt ..with great respect Saker, you are one of the most trusted curators of public knowledge out there but sometimes you may get it wrong.
I do not know if Covid is a bio weapon, but this talk did nothing to convince me it isn’t. And in some ways right at this point in time, does that even matter? I don’t think it does or can matter right now to the average citizen of the world.
The reason I avoid the clickbait is that the virus is real and the panic even more real. I have no choice but to be safe and protect my family and other humans. So people banging on about loss of liberty and the rest are not helping to make the world safer right now, they are making people more stressed and angry and that is not a good thing at this time. I am choosing to be safe but cam and happy, I’m trying to spread this rather than fear.
I have to agree, mostly. I don’t have an opinion on where the virus came from (as it does not matter anyway, only facts matter), but I did not find his statements persuasive at all. He is careful about how he phrases the answer (and I listened several times). His work in Jordan? Well, I am sure it would have been vetted at the highest levels (so that would place him in specific circles of government). Plus, he lists a bunch of credentials (ok, good) and then says “there is no evidence” – he does not say, I examined the evidence (or someone else did) – just “there is no evidence.” That is a rather vague statement. He does not explain how he knows there is no evidence. He says something about “how we can do testing,” but says nothing about actual, specific testing. And then he makes a giant leap to conclude “clearly jumped” – clear to whom? and on what evidence? He finishes by saying “I don’t believe”… well, there are a lot of things I do or don’t believe, but if evidence contradicts my beliefs, they are pointless.
I think it does matter for us to know, where the virus came from. But I also understand that governments might not want to reveal what they know or suspect… Pepe Escobar’s recent article on this topic was very good… and for the Chinese to say a state actor did it would necessitate a response. Maybe we just don’t want to go there …yet.
They don’t want to go there, because there all in on it. ( BOE – UK, China, Israel, BIS are all on the same team )
Look at it this way all the National Parks & State Park trailheads in USA are closed.
But guess what, all the National Parks in China are ‘closed’, why are the trailheads in Dali (Yunan) China closed, 1,000 miles from Wuhan, out in the middle of no where.
What’s happening is the ‘dream’ and that dream is that of containing all humanity to city’s, and then turning the ‘wilderness’ over to the elite.
Is this ‘virus’ man-made? Hell yes, is it a bio-weapon? No, not in the conventional sense, a bio-weapon is an act of war. What we have here is just a once every hundred year culling of the flock of sheep.
I, too, watched this video about a week ago.
I appreciate Osterholm’s info on the general ecological and environmental context within which viruses develop.
For example, his perspective on the effects of Lyme disease, what we don’t know, and what “chronic Lyme” might actuallly indicate. Since I come from an area with a lot of Lyme exposure and “chronic” cases, this info provided useful insights. Also his comments on Creuzt-Jacob are very interesting. Very sad images of affected deer (not sure whether included in this excerpt). And a heads-up to all hunters to be aware of the dangers.
But I agree that Osterholm might not be telling the whole story, either by design or by dint of his own proressional assumptions and p.o.v.
IMO there is a LOT of evidence that (1) the pandemic is masking dangerous behind-the-scenes political and financial maneuverings of many sorts (just check ouit what Congress is up to, plus Pepe’s reportage on the scandal in France, just for starters—no secrets there) and (2) that these maneuverings also may indicate foreknowledge and preparation to exploit the illness.
Here is a scenario that I think fits the known timeline pretty well. Not saying this is what happened, just illustrating that there are many possibilities that are plausible and dismissing any at this stage is premature, especially as the world is full of – literally – professional liars. It does not require bio-engineering necessarily or even a deliberate malicious attack initially, just taking advantage of a target of opportunity.
Fort Detrick is shut down by the CDC – reported in early August 2018. No details given because “national security”.
Military games held in Wuhan late October 2019.
Coronavirus recognised as epidemic risk in Wuhan late December 2019.
February 2020 – Genetic analysis by experts including those outside China (Taiwan, Japan especially) demonstrates hard-to-explain fact that the US shows the greatest genetic diversity and multiple strains, while most other countries, including China have only one or at most two strains present. This indicates that the US has had the novel virus for the longest time and is the most likely source.
February – March 2020 – Anomalous cases in the US from as early as September 2019 re-examined including deaths from “pulmonary fibrosis” that do not match the required symptoms but match those of covid 19 deaths.
Fort Detrick is closed due to safety breaches and accidental release of a novel coronavirus strain into the US population.
Rather than act to notify the world and contain the outbreak which will inflict significant and perhaps great harm on the US economy, certain “smarties” of a neo-con/exceptionalist persuasion see an opportunity to attack the greatest threat ever to the “US” (meaning the parasitic elites that run the Empire) – China. To damage China’s economy and reputation and maintain pressure on Beijing including sowing internal discord.
A plan is quickly cobbled together as it is realised that hundreds of US military personnel will be in Wuhan soon offering the perfect opportunity to attack China right under the noses of their Chinese “minders” who are on the lookout for Americans trying to contact Chinese nationals or take photos of sensitive installations, etc. but all they have to do is some sightseeing at markets, ask passersby to take some snapshots and such and spread the virus. As it turns out the US games team performs woefully as if they were not really serious athletes but chosen primarily for other reasons.
And look! Wuhan is perfect as a target – a large city and central transport hub. Better yet it has a military bio-weapons lab right there that we can point the finger at as being the source. High-fives all round!!
Oh, and while we are at it we can rip off US taxpayers once again and use the epidemic as cover to bail out Wall Street and the ponzi scheme that is the US financial system. Winning!!!
Hey, while we are still at it let’s drone in or get our guys (MEK) to spread the virus in Iran, the other biggest threat ever to the US (consistency is not their forté).
For this to work they have to:
1. Hide for a while US 2019 coronavirus deaths in the general mortalities associated with respiratory issues arising from various routine sources, like the ordinary flu. At this stage no one is looking for novel coronavirus deaths so probably not hard at all to do this.
2. Prepare disinformation and propaganda campaign to immediately barrage China with blame as the source and as mismanaging the response to the outbreak in Wuhan. Eating bats is a nice touch as it paints the Chinese as suitably gross and generally not-nice people. Yewww . . .
3. Utilise Chinese agitators and agents provacateurs as well as fake “Chinese” presences online to attack and fault Beijing for maximum effect.
4. Once the virus is generally known to exist it is no longer necessary to hide US deaths. Possible early infections going back many months earlier than January 2020 would explain anomalous US infection numbers and possibly Italian rates as well – the virus was there and spreading for much longer than the MSM version of events has it.
5. Get Clinton associate Dr (though not a medical doctor) Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus at the WHO to run interference and generally spread fear and panic amongst the sheeple.
6. If contradictory truthful data gets out MSM stenographers will lay down heaps of smoke to confuse and befuddle, quoting highly qualified and fully paid-for experts.
Smarties do not foresee how as usual China surprises on the upside with how effectively they contain the virus and how quickly their economy recovers helped along by $30/barrel oil thanks to Russia (you’d almost think they were strategic partners).
US response is pitiful, chaotic and ineffectual resulting in more social discord internally and cynicism over the monumental corruption of the elites and abject failure of the systems to benefit the mass of people, most obviously what is laughingly known as the “health care system”.
China and Russia emerge as the only major countries able to offer aid to any that ask for assistance, winning diplomatic and popular approval and undermining sanctions regimes.
US financial system fragility accelerates decline of $US reserve status and low oil price is a stake in the heart of the fracking industry. Sets the stage for possible hyperinflation and widespread misery among the populace with corresponding boom in rope purchases and cataloguing of suitable lamp posts.
China cements position as leading economy and global power. Russia increases its power in the oil market at the expense of the US and Saudi Arabia and solidifies its influence in the Middle East and its ability to thwart the further destruction of Iran, Syria and Yemen. Polish government hopes no one notices the LNG facilities they built to receive US gas shipments that never come and Germany begs Russia to hurry up and finish Nordstream 2.
Oops . . .
One very important point to note is that Russian scientists have clearly stated that COVID-19 isn’t a lab produced illness:
However, just because it isn’t a lab produced illness doesn’t mean it can’t be used/weaponized – i.e an infected person deliberately leaving traces (it can stay on surfaces for days) and infecting others – just one example. As you point out MSM using narratives to harm China. Politicising it completely.
What it all boils down to is how COVID-19 has been handled and used by the Western Governments and its MSM/Corporations/Bankers against its competitors and own populations.
No, they haven’t.
From the link it says:
“I’ve heard this assumption, but at the moment the genome’s decoding indicated that it’s unlikely that this is a lab virus.”
At the moment…unlikely…
Anonymous @ 5.29am
You will read into the article what you will.
The article clearly states “A study decoding the novel coronavirus genome showed that the deadly virus had not been created in a lab, a leading specialist in infectious diseases at the Russian Health Ministry, Elena Malinnikova, said on Monday……Earlier, some Russian and foreign media outlets,……alleged that the novel coronavirus could have been made in a laboratory.”I’ve heard this assumption, but at the moment the genome’s decoding indicated that it’s unlikely that this is a lab virus,”.
The fact you try to pick on one small comment and not look at it as a whole is pure speculation on your part. A specialist looking at the genome has stated her position quite clearly. You also ignored the rest of my comment on how this virus has been weaponized.
Good news also from Russia on the treatment of covid-19:
“Russian specialists believe they have come up with an effective way to treat Covid-19 infection using an anti-malarial drug. They say it not only curbs the symptoms of the disease, but also prevents the virus from replicating.
While experts around the world have been trying to create a specific vaccine against the virus behind the global pandemic, there have also been attempts to repurpose existing medicines, to help the scores of patients that badly need treatment. Russian pharmacists on Saturday said they have found one such drug – Mefloquine – to be effective in stopping Covid-19……….”
Did any Russian scientist declared publicly that 911 is false flag and a nuclear event?
Russias is partly controlled by the same forces.
Russia can not even respond to Israeli aggression in Syria, how they would publicly declare that this is Biogenetic weapon?
RT is completely controlled by the zios.
You have done well in this very plausible scenario.
Btw, if you have not see it, this video which came across my scanning yesterday may be of some interest.
“WHO’s Tedros Adhanom Should be Tried for Crimes Against Humanity”
19,833 views • Mar 14, 2020
Cam O’Byrne, good points what you presented! My thoughts are very similar in this case.
And to saker: Thank you for this interview. It was interesting, but I would not “take this to bank”. There are few things that bothers me:
Firstly and foremost: Michael Osterhom introduced him as a “impartial scientist”
Yet he has been doing expertise consultations for US government and also for the US democrats (for instance after Soviet Union crashed, then about bio warfare things in Russia. This is mentioned in this interview. Note! If I understood the text correctly?!)
He also slipped once very badly – i think it was around 43 min of interview. He said (quotation): This (not corona virus) will be very good for all the Americans…and (quickly added, when it does not sounded so nice) for the rest of the world, too.
Also he pointed out, how worrisome it is now, that the vast majority of common medicines are made in China. What he didn’t say: Yes, of course it will be very bad to have own medicines – especially if things goes out of hand and there will be a more severe trade or a hot war against China. But as I am very bad and paranoid individual, I thought that’s what he immediately meant.
Secondly the interview was full of wild life info. How diseases spread in the nature and sometimes to humans also. Especially bad areas are in China. For instance in Wuhan district there is 60 000000 population and: (!) They have many markets of wild animals for nutrition. That is a lethal sin, surely, And the Chinese must be backwards and evil savages – people to avoid!
Then the interviewer showed, that the Österholm knew this kind of virus calamity particularly in Cina before Wuhan case and showed his earlier writings. Nice team work!
Yet one thing bothers me:
Why now? Why this corona strikes now in Wuhan, when there is about two years heavy hybrid war against China by Americans? The Chinese have been had this diet at least 4000 years. So why now? Just too convenient, eh? Not to mention, that there is some evidence, that in America, there might have been Covid-19 before Wuhan case. Also so rapid development in US suggests, that this has had to occur earlier. Otherwise it is mathematically impossible.
Then thirdly: The ‘master of bio science’ stated that this covid-19 is highly contagious. That you get is just by inhaling in a presence of other individual, who has this virus.
Well, according of our officials in Finland, they say that luckily covid-19 is not so aggressively contagious. If you wash hands often and properly, don’t touch your face, avoid crowds and maintain distance at least 1 meter for other individuals, there is a little change to get it. For instance Noro-virus is much more aggressively contagious (it effects diary and vomit among other things).
The danger of catching the corona-virus lies mainly there, that you may spread it unknowingly without or before symptoms will start.
But what do we know, we poor and backward commies with free of charge educational system up to university level, high standard of living, and very well around the world travelled people? Absolutely nothing!!
I wrote this last paragraph deliberately underlining how clumsy and unconvincing it is to appeal one’s authority or what ethnic group one stands for- and not show other evidence so much – as this Mr did when said it is not a bio-weapon, because I am a ‘master of bio science’ and so on… (my free words, sorry) LOL
(Pardon the language errors, English is not my cup of tea. It never was. Instead I’ve started to learn Russian – it will be us, Finns, much, much more useful!)
Good information, thank you! Always good to hear what others are saying, especially in the countries the MSM hardly ever admits even exist.
Public Health England’s (PHE) epidemic intelligence activities monitor global HCID (high consequence infectious disease) events. These are published in a monthly summary in the form of a downloadable pdf file. The summaries followed monthly, through 2019, right up to the December bulletin, thus:
In that issue, the monthly update for December 2019 we have, quote:
‘UNDIAGNOSED DISEASE Events Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. In late December, an outbreak of viral pneumonia of unknown aetiology was identified in Wuhan. Many, but not all cases were linked with a seafood and live animal market in the city (Huanan South China Seafood Market). The cause was SUBSEQUENTLY IDENTIFIED as a novel coronavirus. A FULL UPDATE WILL BE PROVIDED IN THE JANUARY 2020 SUMMARY.’ (uppercase added).
No information is given at all as to who, how, where or when the cause became known, and no further bulletins have been publicly issued since!
But then, a new single webpage format report was issued by the UK government thus:
‘Covid-19 has not been an HCID in the UK since the 19th March 2020, when it was declassified by PHE and the NHS, and also by The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) who were also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.
An HCID is defined as:
an acute infectious disease
typically has a high case-fatality rate
may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely’
(I suggest anyone accessing the official de-classification notice above, makes a hard copy and show it, or give it, to as many folk as you can.)
Yet, on the very same day this ‘virus’ was de-classified, Prime Minister Boris Johnson then announced measures unheard of in a supposed ‘democracy’ – ‘lockdowns’, threats, no freedom to work or take recreation. A curfew in all but name, and, if the rest of the world is anything to go by, soon to be martial law.
This has become a political, not a medical, matter. Please, get the message out.
https://www.youtube.com/user/profvrr/videos (Vincent Racanielo, Columbia U.)
there are updates from today and yesterday
Discussion hosted by professor of virology, and experts, and other material.
Wow !! Thank you.
A window into a field very far afield from mine. Obviously requires an entirely different way of thinking.
Good luck to them in their work.
How much do you want to get into the subject? That site also has a course on virology videos from Racaniello.
I found a site https://b-ok.cc/book/2620063/7afca5
where I could download the book (PDF format) ‘principles of virology’ 4th edition instead of newer 6th, but should be useful. Also other books there — I also downloaded one on RNA viruses from 2009.
Amazing stuff! If you are inside ‘sheltering in place’ and bored, looking for something to do, well…
Well one thing is true:
The health care system is overstretched because all doctors are giving interviews on CNN.
Interview with the actual person…..and what gave rise to the subsequent course of actions…….
It is good to have this discussion….I check Jon Rappoport’s daily denunciation of the “virus hoax” as he calls it.
However: I do not think this man is just click baiting, nor does he seem to be someone without some expertise
either. ( from the Cafe and Bro 93)
So, seriously…are the words “bioweaponize virus” going to be banned here anytime soon? Hopefully this will not happen due to the fact that some Russian virologists are politically savvy enough not to say so even if they think so. Just think of the implications of this bioweapon virus….yes. mind blowing if you want to go down the
“rabbit hole” or even if you want to pose it as a reasonable possibility.
Agreed. this is no longer a medical question but rather a political question…
of course, having the epidemic starting in two out of the three worst enemies of the US, out of 210+ possible countries, is just an unfortunate, extremely rare coincidence.
So let us get this clear: Dr. Francis Boyle, who authored the Bioweapons Terrorism Act of 1977 and is as storied an academic in his own right as Michael T. Osterhold ( ne 3/10/1953) gets the big pooh-pooh because he says it is a bioweapon but this Osterhold character who is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations who gets trotted out to squash “rumors among the masses”. by going on Joe Rogan is supposed to have more credibility. Read his CV on line to find how this man serves the status quo and always has and lest anyone here accuse me of personal vilification, let me say he may very well believe everything in his paradise ( rogue spell check) para
But, I do not buy a bit of it.
I suppose after Tulsi the CFR is welcome here! Although to be honest, I thought she was hopeless but legit. I was only half right.
Tulsi is a member of the CFR
Glib 1 and every single person that didn’t just “fall out of a turmip truck” is well aware of that, CJ.
The meaning as I read the post is that Tulsi
1. Is hopeless (1/2 of the question…..green checkmark)…and
2. NOT legit (the other half….red ERROR checkmark). Therefore former glib 1 assessment admittedly only half right…second half requiring correction from legitimate …..to illegitimate, unreliable…wholly bought.,
Many, many course corrections are necessary. Especially where “feelings” are concerned.
…”“No monkey ever reheated a frozen burrito” – What The Expanse tells us about the COVID-19 pandemic”…
Read this the other day prior to this post here. Debunking the debunker!
Yes very interesting, Thanks !
Absolutely brilliant find. Saker, you HAVE to answer this. You simply cannot post this thing and ignore this article!
From the article: Osterholm failed to tell the story of this genetically modified H5N1 Bird Flu, which was turned into a virus that “could make the deadly 1918 pandemic look like a pesky cold.”
The fact that he was aware of the research on H5N1 and did not mention it undermines his credibility. While it is important to determine what the source of Covid 19 was that is secondary to coming up with ways to combat it.
Yes, the whole article deserves special attention, but especially this excerpt about Michael Osterholm :
However most of this work didn’t really raise too many eyebrows, until about ten years ago when scientists in Stony Brook, NY – not coincidentally also the first place to build a DNA-virus from scratch – took the H5N1 Bird Flu, tweaked its genome in two places, and then passed it through a series of ferret hosts in the lab until it became airborne. This sort of research, a minor alteration and then passage through ferrets, did two things: Resulted in a virus that would look natural and wouldn’t appear to have been directly genetically altered, and also created a virus that was way out on its own branch of the viral family tree since those sequential passages added generations far faster than they’d naturally occur in the wild. If that sounds familiar, maybe that’s because those traits are also exactly what’s found with COVID-19. And as far back as 2015, Chinese labs were reported to have been involved with gain-of-function research, swapping around viral genomes in the lab to try to create the most virulent strain possible.
Quite curiously, one of the scientists supporting this troubling research in an article that noted the virus “could change history if it was ever set free” appeared on Joe Rogan’s podcast in 2020 a few weeks into the current pandemic, claiming that COVID-19 was definitely natural and making no mention of this ferret-based dual-use gain-of-function research at all. Odd, right? It’s almost like Michael Osterholm, whose entire career rests on advancing gain-of-function of research, might want to whitewash what’s really going on? Did that sunshine tickle when it was being blown up your ass, Joe?
Osterholm failed to tell the story of this genetically modified H5N1 Bird Flu, which was turned into a virus that “could make the deadly 1918 pandemic look like a pesky cold.” This result was so troubling that the NIH, which had funded the research, tried to make sure that the it would only be published after enough details were taken out to make replication of the experiment tough to perform. However one of the virologists involved in the research thought these restrictions were a bit silly, since the gist of the experiment was enough to allow anyone with enough money to replicate them without a problem. Especially researchers who were already familiar with manipulating bat coronaviruses, two of whom learned how to do exactly that at UNC in 2015 before returning to Wuhan to continue their work.
Absolutely. Also the results of an early study of its genome, which found what later Japanese and Taiwanese scientists confirmed: it is a man-made virus, originated in the US. Confirmed by other researchers, such as a PhD Maths § Computer Science Bordeaux University : ‘The main result of this updated release is the formal proof that 2019-nCoV coronavirus is partially a SYNTHETIC genome. (…) Finally, we ask ourselves the question of a possible artificial origin of this genome, in particular because of the presence of fragments of HIV1 retrovirus.’
Many thanks for this link. The author clearly knows the history of virology in depth and detail, especially the progress of the last 20 years – who knew the first chimera was synthesized in 2002? And from then on… tinkering with this or that protein group of a virus to obtain specific biological effects. And not least: pile on and follow the money!
Thanks Taffyboy. Also see the popular presentation of this by the unique youtube journalist “J.C. on a bike.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmSCMb8Nds4
Interestingly, J.C.’s first video on coronavirus was fairly mainstream and discounted the “lab manufactured” theory, but he did a complete 180 degree after reviewing more literature.
first video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL7c-vck4vk&t=1332s
Note the numerous neurobiology presentations by J.C. on his channel. He’s an interesting person, apparently a trained biologist.
It is not a bioweapon. Okay.
This does not preclude it from being distributed as a bioweapon.
To say it is not a bioweapon and then to say it could not be used as such are two totally different things, if I understand English.
This virus stays on metal and hard plastic for 3 days.
Not very hard to walk around Wuhan and touch it to metal and hard plastic.
I’m not saying that’s how it was used. I am thinking maybe that was how it was used.
All these experts who convince us it is not an attack weapon spent decades playing manipulation with these viruses. They made weapons and tried to make defenses. And they learned how to gather viruses and they practiced moving them around labs. Then they try to tell us no one gathered this virus and no one moved it.
I just have a hard time because they never disprove the proposition that a virus can be used in a very simple way to effect humans, animals and plants. Doesn’t have to be a weapon until someone uses it. It’s like a knife. A simple kitchen knife is not a weapon until it is used as such.
The man is probably correct in his theory.
I can’t prove what I call my conceived doubt.
I’m saying I don’t care if someone has worked in the field for 40 years.
Tell me how this wasn’t distributed around Wuhan because it is impossible to distribute it. Then we have something to consider, to think about and, maybe, to accept.
I am waiting for Science, provable, repeatable, universal and conclusive.
I am really sick of consensus science from a plethora of people all of whom live off government money.
When major science journals now admit that a huge percentage of science papers are fraudulent and peer reviews are like claques at the opera, it takes a lot to convince me that real Science has the answer for us.
Show me the process, every step of the way that proves what this really is. Show me.
They assume it ‘started in Wuhan’. I don’t accept that. China got hit in Wuhan. That is what I know.
Americans were getting this virus last year earlier than Wuhan. The survivors are telling us so.
Even now, many doctors are telling us that many of the flu patients are not flu patients. They are virus patients.
So we have some evidence that last year, some of the flu patients were virus patients and some who died, died of the virus. Especially, those patients and dead whose tests show no flu. But something else which was never tested for.
Makes you think.
There is not sufficient evidence yet. But it is piling up .. the process, the every step of the way that this thing was manufactured in a laboratory or more than one laboratory. The crispr signatures of cut ‘n paste pieces of viral matter is clear to those that will tell the truth. I expect those voices to be silenced one by one.
The proof that it was released as a bioweapon is by far not complete, so, The Saker’s argument here is more cogent and correct.
But man .. it sure makes me uncomfortable with all the official secrets act being applied to whatever, we don’t even know to what.
If it walks like a duck …. and is aimed at a civilian population? it still may be a big mistake.
Agreed, @L445. It’s what I’ve been thinking, too. Could have been an accidental release, as well. An infected test animal escaped its confines?
As a weapon it does not make sense, to a sane person. But then again, someone was splashing weaponized anthrax around in 2001.
And speaking of 2001, we have had a seemingly endless parade of ‘credentialed experts’ telling us we did not see what we saw back then. Lunatics have taken the asylum.
@Amerikanski: “As a weapon it does not make sense, to a sane person. But then again, someone was splashing weaponized anthrax around in 2001. ”
Do you mean the anthrax that was mailed to persons in the U$, and was supposed to be part of Iraq’s nonexistent WMD? If so, we heard the BBC news bulletin at lunch, and I joked to my wife: “It should not take more than half an hour to identify the DNA. If they have not announced its identiy by tomorrow morning we can be sure that strain came from a U$ lab.” Years later it was traced to U$ bioweapons lab at Fort Detrick. The lab was subsequently closed for carelessness.
In the comment I just submitted (tl;dr, sorry) i also brought up the Anthrax case.
Which by now, we all know – or should – was a deliberate release to try and get the blame onto Iraq but also get the population all riled up while putting an exclamation mark on 9/11.
the lab involved in that Anthrax case, wasn’t it kind of shut down last year for something called “safety”? or was it the other thing called “quality control”?
You’re saying it’s a natural virus that was deliberately released in Wuhan? Sort of like all the diseases that befell the Amerindians which were brought over and spread by the Europeans?
My take on Larchmonter’s comment is that he is carefully avoiding attribution. He merely repeats the known fact, that all the ‘superpowers’ have secret labs where they keep samples of things like smallpox and polio and ebola and ????, and where they make and test weapons and countermeasures. This is a known-for-decades fact.
Everything else, including Rogan’s video above, is speculation.
Larch…,I agree and add.
Having watched the greater part of the interview,much is clear and true.
Nonetheless a weaponised virus is quiet a different animal to a synthesised in lab bioweapon. And this subject (weaponised virus)was not covered.
The topics were mostly about animals and viruses,prions,etc mutating and jumping species.
Towards the end it gets into descriptions of wet markets and the imagined horrors thereof.Included are mentions of widespread markets trading in wildlife in Thailand which is untrue.I have been to Thailand since 14 years and seen some but, very little evidence in any market of this trading.I have seen it in Laos albeit on a very small scale .These animals come from wild habitats which do not exist very much in Thailand and for sure in modern China.
There are claims that most of the food in Chinese cities is from wild animals which is patent garbage.
Further claims all of which have plausible deniability that SARS ,MERS and others all “originating”in Asiatic nations.Interestingly,The Chinese foreign ministry spokespersons have not been reported as having retracted statements relating to American military personnel carrying the virus when partaking in the military games.
The great game plays on.
Yes, I too have read that the virus first appeared in the US and later on in Wuhan, China. One has to wonder if this a bio weapon.
The US has a history of testing bio weapons on it’s citizens, a well known fact. Officially the virus ‘first’ appeared in China, Americas biggest trade competitor. And why did it appear ? The first explanation was that the virus was produced by bats, whom the Chinese ostensibly love to eat. After that we have accusations that China was producing the virus in it’s bio lab in Wuhan. The virus, ostensibly, escaped from the bio lab.
Back in 1980 when AIDS appeared, medical ‘specialists’ stated that the infection was produced by monkeys. However, some analysts pointed their fingers at Fort Dietrich, the US bio facility. We now have the corona virus, with bats being accused as transmitters of the virus. Some commentators have again pointed their fingers at Fort Dietrich, which ostensibly has been closed down.
Well, what is the real truth about the virus ? Time will tell, as at the moment the evidence is contradictory. It is a fact that the virus has been fatal to older people, giving rise to suspicions that we are dealing with some kind of new flu, whose effects have been exaggerated. However, at the same time suspicions have arisen that the virus is indeed a bio weapon, tested in the US and “posted” to China, Russia’s chief trading and political ally. The virus spreads to Europe, with Italy experiencing the largest number of cases and fatalities. Why ? Maybe because China offered Italy the benefits of it’s Silk Road initiative, showing a great interest in Italy’s ports and geo-stratigic position in Europe ? As I said, time will tell.
@Larc, just download Microbiology uni book (Russian are particularly good, you can find a lot in library genesis for free) and open on the Coronaviridae chapter. Just read it and compare with sars-cov-2 (classified as strain from the Coronaviridae family). The evidence is there. Also make research on S (spike) proteins and in which viral strains they are expressed in the membrane. We don’t need any new knowledge/scientific data, all the data and knowledge is already available. Simply noone dares to speak and point to it.
As far as if the virus is used as weapon, I’d say not exactly. It is part, a layer of the weapon. The trigger which puts in motion the weapon itself which is media psy ops and hybrid shenanigans. This is why China and Russia made everything possible to hijack the narrative from the ziolegacy media.
Prof Francis Boyle is convinced this virus came out of a lab.
The other thing is, why should we even worry about what happens on the JR show? I am a man of the left, but I commiserate my friends of the right as he and others push forward a type of fake right that is similar to the current left everywhere in the West (this new left in Italy is named, similarly to Berlusconi’s “Go Italy!”, “Go (bad word used for gays)!”). The famous psychologist Peterson is but an example of this fake right, and he and Rogan are the two non-kosher people at a certain “new right” website, which has otherwise a fully kosher line-up.
Wish I could agree wholeheartedly that SARS-COV-2 has not been modified in bioweapons laboratories.
But the published scientific literature from such labs – in Fort Detrick USA, Winnipeg Canada and Wuhan China shows all three labs were doing exactly that to SARS Coronavirus strains.
That doesn’t prove it was released on purpose. It doesn’t exclude this particular strain wasn’t a natural mutation. But it raises the probability. Especially when in all of China their top bioweapons lab was within a few kilometres of the Wuhan fish market.
Please – could you interview Professor Francis Boyle of the University of Illinois. He wrote the US law on bioweapons that was accepted and passed by Congress in 1989. He has since complained that the law is constantly flouted. He was the go-to interviewee for the MSM on these issues for many years. He says the MSM have banned him since he stated in several interviews including on BBC that the anthrax sent to US Congress reps in the wake of 9/11 (that swayed the vote in favour of the Patriot Act) could not have come from al-Qaeda because it was nanotechnology grade anthrax known to be made in US bioweapons labs.
Prof Boyle seems very genuine. He still has tenure and teaches at University of Illinois. As a professor of International Law he has an illustrious CV.
Although a professor of Law not Microbiology he has had to familiarise himself with the science over the decades. He speaks of how he’s been in constant contact with microbiology experts and how some senior ones agree privately SARS-COV-2 is a bioweapon, but the pressures to not say so publicly are intense.
Interviews and transcripts:
You don’t have to agree Saker, but as your audience I’m sure many of us would like you to explore this issue from both sides. Why not interview Professor Boyle? You could then put his views to the test with interview of Professor Osterholm or similar.
Another person whose analysis of the SARS-COV-2 genome is worth hearing and putting to the test with an interview would be this Dr Paul Cottrell:
My thoughts as well. I saw the Boyle interview weeks ago and was asking myself the same questions.
Please – could you interview Professor Francis Boyle of the University of Illinois.
I’ll second that Peter.
Boyle was bashed here in the Vineyard about a week ago by several commentators for saying that the virus is a bio-weapon that could have escaped from the lab in Wuhan — they thought he was like the USG and bashing China.
So sure, it’ll be great if an interview — if at all possible — could be arranged by the Saker. An opportunity to get it straight from the horse’s mouth.
Although a professor of Law not Microbiology …
I think people like Boyle are eminently qualified to talk about Covid-19. He’s not a microbiologist, sure, but he certainly has the background knowledge and experience to talk about the subject, certainly much better qualifications than previously unknown YT airheads that some people listen to. Also, being an expert in virology or some other specialist subject in many cases gives one a great disadvantage — not being able to see the wood for the trees.
Conflict of interest: I think the virus came from the Wuhan lab but I don’t think it is a bio-weapon. To each his own.
Keep well in Oz.
About Chinese labs, this excerpt of a news by the MSM Italian TV RAI3 in 2015. It is in Italian, and the subtitles are in french. It states, among other things:
“an experiment led in China by a group of researchers managed to create a modified virus by mixing the protein of a bat coronavirus and a mouse SARS virus.”
So these researches were already in the MSM in 2015, and we therefore know that this type of virus already existed under the supervision of Chinese (and US) labs. It is therefore statistically more logical to think it comes from a lab than to believe it came from a natural evolution by mixing.
This is much more about microbiology than epidemiology. And you don’t get to be in a position like Osterholm has UNLESS you kowtow to the establishment narrative. Check out this Youtube video with Dr Paul Cottrell, who clearly knows his biochemistry:
Is Coronavirus A Bioweapon? Dr Paul Cottrell
For instance this commentator concludes:
“….1 in 24339 chance that the current Covid-19 virus strain could have arisen from natural mutations, as opposed to being a codon-and-secondary-structure-optimized gene construct that can have only one purpose: for use as a bioweapon of mass destruction…”.
See comment on “Is Coronavirus a Bioweapon? Dr Paul Cottrell” Youtube video:
Keep in mind that there is a large stretch of 440 amino acids within the non-host-determining non-conserved S2 proportion of the SARS-COV-2’s S protein that are identical with the other highly suspicious virus, RaTG13, despite the presence of a whopping 79 nucleotide differences within the part of RNA that codes for the same protein. An abnormally high level of silent mutations that have only 1 in 5346 chance to have been a product of natural evolution amongst all possible sequences that are equally capable of causing the Covid-19 outbreak.
The following are the BLAST search results of a part of the Wuhan Spike Glycoprotein sequence in comparison to the closest related natural coronavirus to date.
This is the result of an amino acid BLAST comparision between the two different glycoprotein sequences.
QHD43416.1, 681 to 1120.
Query: surface glycoprotein [Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2] Query ID: QHD43416.1 Length: 440
>spike glycoprotein [Bat coronavirus RaTG13]
Sequence ID: QHR63300.2 Length: 1269
Range 1: 681 to 1120
Score:901 bits(2329), Expect:0.0,
Method:Compositional matrix adjust.,
Identities:440/440(100%), Positives:440/440(100%), Gaps:0/440(0%)
Notice that there were ZERO amino acid difference between these two protein sequences. that is, these two sequences were identical.
A BLAST search on the corresponding nucleotides gives this result.
Query: Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 isolate Wuhan-Hu-1, complete genome Query ID: MN908947.3 Length: 1560
>Bat coronavirus RaTG13, complete genome
Sequence ID: MN996532.1 Length: 29855
Range 1: 23357 to 24904
Score:2366 bits(1281), Expect:0.0,
Identities:1469/1560(94%), Gaps:12/1560(0%), Strand: Plus/Plus
In comparision, this is the result of the same Wuhan coronavirus Spike glycoprotein sequence when compared to a natural bat coronavirus.
Query: surface glycoprotein [Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2] Query ID: QHD43416.1 Length: 440
>spike glycoprotein [Bat SARS coronavirus HKU3-8]
Sequence ID: ADE34766.1 Length: 1242
Range 1: 654 to 1093
Score:855 bits(2209), Expect:0.0,
Method:Compositional matrix adjust.,
Identities:406/440(92%), Positives:430/440(97%), Gaps:0/440(0%)
Noticed that there were 34 amino acid that are different between Covid-19 and HKU3-8 within this domain, differences of which represent the natual number of amino acids that are variable across different Coronavirus strains within this domain, variations that are known to not affect the function of the resulting protein. As this domain, which is located after the end of the RBD domain of the coronavirus S protein and is known to be cleaved off after the maturation of the individual virions, it plays no critical role in selecting the host for the virus, and are generally considered to be a domain that is not well-conserved or evolutionarily pressured across different strains of bat-borne Coronaviruses.
There is only 0.2450783^(79*(34/(1124-685+1)))=0.00018706121, or 1 in 5346 chance that these 79 nucleotide mutations not changing a single amino acid within the 685-1124 sequence of the Covid-19 Spike protein when compared to RaTG13, the closese related natural coronavirus to date. 1 in 24339 if another related bat coronavirus, HKU 3.4 was considered, possessing 42 amino acid mutations within this region. That is, there is only at best 1 in 5346, at worst 1 in 24339 chance that the current Covid-19 virus strain could have arisen from natural mutations, as opposed to being a codon-and-secondary-structure-optimized gene construct that can have only one purpose: for use as a bioweapon of mass destruction. …..”
Today at the 45th anniversary of the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention – The Indian Ministry of External Affairs in a press release called COVID-19 a bio-weapon. (Be patient with the Indian accent).
the man is comfortably ensconced as an establishment scientist. Sorry, but those who doubt this man’s veracity, like Larchmonter445 and Katherine have the more convincing arguements on this one, and I say that with all due respect to you and your indispensable work!
I don’t know how to thank you for”Saker”. Really informative and credible . Thanks sincerely.
Iceland study found 40 mutations of the Coronavirus.
Study also found virus type in Italy was different from virus type infecting people in Austria, and both these virus types were different from virus type infecting people in the UK.
Testing must be challenging.
This guy is like a PR rep for the virus, “Hey, no it’s way way worse than the flu, … Nope, you can’t bioengineer this thing in any weapons lab, it’s unique, a phenomenon, like none other.” He’s the Don King of virus promotion. And he’s threatening – clever tidbits about serendipity and 9/11. Real cute, Osterholm.
Talking about clickbait…
Not sure if i am supposed to laugh or cry right now tbh, i just found this gem of hypocrisy and morally repugnancy😂😭🥺🤮🤡
(rt link in article)
“It is not a priority to enforce closings in certain neighborhoods.”
So i guess it is only us halfbreed europeans and fullblood europeans that needs to be locked up and lose our freedom of movement, income and perhaps homes or do the inhabitants in “certain neighborhoods” understand something us civilized europoodles have forgotten?
At least the macaron got rid off the yellow wests eh?
Joe Rogan you say?…
I think it falls under, umm…, ‘soft power projection’,…
You know, kind of like Al-Qaeda and ISIS, for instance. Could possibly maybe sorta be kinda deniable sorta…
If you were used to, say for instance, having a whole friggin lotta really good lawyers, or something.
Comments from Paul Craig Roberts about the politicization of the ‘crisis’ to the advantage of the French elites and international legal drug cartels.
I really do appreciate all the great reporting you do here and I’ve perused your site often for many years, Thank You!
However, I must ask that these academics explain how they know the virulence of this virus? Time and again these types of folks who are layered in this and that credential. They worked for so-an-so and did this and did that. ——— These people are ego heavy and light on humility and sense. Just last week the highly esteemed Dr. Anthony S. Fauci is scaring the bejesus out of the world with the “Ten Times More Lethal Than The Flu” to now, in the New England Journal of Medicine on the 27th of March titled “Covid-19 —- Navigating the Uncharted, saying it’s like a severe seasonal flu with a .1% or less CFR.
Did he apologize for doing such a significant part in government showing its fangs and scaring folks so intensely that they have willingly imprisoned themselves, even unto starvation. What the hell? Don’t we have anyone in power that isn’t either an idiot with a permanently engaged mouth or some ego crazed psychopath with an unknown agenda?
Link to Dr. Fauci’s paper: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387
You really cannot trust anyone in government, medicine, pharma etc.
Mitch, thanks for the Link to Dr.Fauci’s paper with his new “0.1% or less” CFR figure. Was it really only last week that Dr.Fauci was “scaring the bejeezus out of people with Ten Times more lethal than flu”? If so, Dr.Fauci is like the UK govt spokesman from Imperial Health, who has rapidly downgraded his estimate of deaths: he originally went predicted 500,000, but a few days ago the same expert went on TV to say there have been only 20,000 deaths and most of those people would have died anyway because they were already sick with something else. Neither did this British Government spokesman apologize for scaring people; nor did he offer to resign his prestigious position because he had made such a blunder.
I do not have all of the facts. Neither does anyone else. When I find myself at an impasse, I go with what I do know (for myself) to be right and true, and take it from there. That is when, and where, i turn to faith in the same. Things unfold from there. That is how the tide is turned.
Granted the source here is suspect , NPR , but the story is an interesting illustration as to why it is not an academic question. IF the (weapon grade) Virus is indeed a product of a level 4 “research” lab or, no, it is not.
If, I only say if , it were designed to have 3 possible ways and sites of attachment to the vulnerable epithelial tissues in the lung or gut, then that is a very unusual zoonotic development but it might account for the grim probability that there might well be three waves ( intersecting, overlapping, sequential–whatever) of infection. So, yes, it will take surviving 3 waves for there to be the much touted “herd immunity” canard to develop. And forget a vaccine that could make things worse if done hastily or incompletely or based in bad science ( yes, there is such a thing). I saw the results of contaminated, careless vaccines in the 1970’s of Guillan Barre cases
in Los Angeles, CA
And it might, just possibly, might account for the mysterious : now he tests OK, now he does not or ,ooops, he just suddenly was found dead in his apartment so unexpectedly.
Someone of authority needs to be fearlessly asking these questions and be given armed guards while he does so. No, I am not being paranoid as there are literally trillions of dollars at stake here. And as some claim, the power to control all of mankind.
This “Recognizing and Resisting the Hasbara Pandemic” article about propaganda is on topic imo, and is better posted here then in the news feed i think.
here is a interesting question the writer asks about the latest muuh Iran is bad story in the US(Robert Levinson)-
“But it was not just the timing that was odd. It was the orange prison uniform”
I wondered what uniforms Iran use when i first saw the picture off him online, they do but not orange daesh suits.. My laziness stopped me from checking and until today i did not know the answer..
It’s true, a lot of the contra-information about the origins of CoV-19 has come from three sites I now think are unreliable:
– The Washington Times
– Epoch Times
The first two are old established propaganda rags from the Moonies and Falun Gong, and the third one is some anonymous mysterious blogger who just appeared out of nowhere.
And of course, there are all the old standby unreliable sources like Alex Jones and etc. with their various brands of snake oil.
But, but, but, I am really loathe to trust even ‘alternative’ news outlets like Democracy Now or Joe Rogan any more. Or even Russia Today, for that matter . . . there seems to be a certain mainstream narrative, that is adhered to at all times. I take it to be a Globalist narrative, and consider it dangerous.
But still, some of the ‘unreliable’ sites I listed up-top have made some concrete points that have not been refuted by any ‘experts’. For example, it has been possible, for at least 17 years now, to synthesize a virus from scratch merely based on its published nucleotide sequence. It is not possible to tell the difference between a synthetic virus and one which emerged from nature.
Sorry, but this expert or any other expert cannot know for certain we are not dealing with a bio-weapon, because “biological weapons also offer deniability: attacks can look like natural outbreaks, and they are difficult to attribute.”
Bio-weapons do not necessarily have to have a 50%+ kill rate, but just enough to cause a societal and economical systemic failure. This Coronavirus is just another tool in the the “Shock Doctrine” arsenal of “Disaster Capitalism”.
Train travel tells a story about COVID-19.
It is obvious that the story we are being told about the COVID-19 epidemic is wrong.
Everyday 34 trains leave Wuhan for Shanghai.
These trains usually carry 600 or 1200 passengers.
Let us assume that only 50 passengers on each train travel from Wuhan to Shanghai.
For simplicity, we assume this whether the trains carry 600 or 1200 passengers.
So every day 34 * 50 = 1,700 people from Wuhan go to Shanghai.
The virus circulated in Wuhan for roughly 40 days before the authorities took action.
Therefore 34 * 50 * 40 = 68,000 people from Wuhan end up in Shanghai.
These 68,000 + those arriving by plane + those arriving by automobile, result in 353 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 68,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Shanghai resulting in 353 cases of Covid19.
Everyday 35 trains leave Wuhan for Beijing…..
More than 70,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Beijing resulting in 442 cases of Covid19.
Everyday 37 trains leave Wuhan for Chongqing…..
More than 74,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Chongqing resulting in 576 cases of Covid19.
Everyday 84 trains leave Wuhan for Guangzhou…..
More than 168,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Guangzhou resulting in 1,357 cases of Covid19.
Over the same time period, around 1000 Chinese from Wuhan arrive in Iran.
These are supposedly responsible for 12,729 confirmed cases.
Over the same time period, around 1000 Chinese from Wuhan arrive in Italy.
These are supposedly responsible for 21,157 confirmed cases.
Gathering the summaries together we have:
68,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Shanghai resulting in 353 confirmed cases.
70,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Beijing resulting in 442 confirmed cases.
74,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Chongqing resulting in 576 confirmed cases.
168,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Guangzhou resulting in 1,357 confirmed cases.
1,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Iran resulting in 12,729 confirmed cases.
1,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Italy resulting in 21,157 confirmed cases.
How come visitors from Wuhan to major Chinese cities have almost zero transmission rate?
How come visitors from Wuhan to foreign countries have a very high transmission rate?
Wuhan is in the middle of China.
Why did the disease spread massively overseas but hardly spread at all to the major Chinese cities?
How is that possible?
It seems the disease is being deliberately spread.
The confirmed cases are those reported on March 16, 2020.
Plane travel tells the same story as train travel.
We use the one-way bookings from Wuhan to various countries in the first quarter of 2019 to estimate the number of airline passengers. The top ten destinations from Wuhan were:
Hong Kong 21,852
Note that neither Iran or Italy are in the top ten destinations.
We are interested in 40 days (the period before the Chinese government took action) from the 90 day period, so we multiply by 4/9. We have:
More than 32,971 Chinese from Wuhan visit Thailand resulting in 827 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 13,204 Chinese from Wuhan visit Japan resulting in 1,140 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 11,445 Chinese from Wuhan visit Taiwan resulting in 215 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 9,712 Chinese from Wuhan visit Hong Kong resulting in 386 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 8,491 Chinese from Wuhan visit Malaysia resulting in 1,624 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 8,277 Chinese from Wuhan visit Korea resulting in 9,037 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 6,675 Chinese from Wuhan visit Australia resulting in 2,044 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 5,980 Chinese from Wuhan visit Cambodia resulting in 87 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 5,896 Chinese from Wuhan visit USA resulting in 46,450 confirmed cases of Covid19.
More than 5,759 Chinese from Wuhan visit Singapore resulting in 509 confirmed cases of Covid19.[/code]
The source of this information is the OAG (Air Travel Intelligence) Traffic Analyzer.
The virus has been deliberately spread to certain areas. Other areas were forgotten about.
If it walks like a release, and talks like a release, then you are drunk because releases don’t talk…
“We find that 294,000 to 518,000 deaths from respiratory causes are associated with influenza each year on average during 2002-2011,…” [from page 1 of the PDF]
294,000 to 518,000 deaths from influenza every year.
294,000 dead in a good flu season.
518,000 dead in a bad flu season.
Interesting stuff on COVID-19
Just me but I would have thought that if in Cafe etiquette Caps are regarded as shouting, then white on black backgrounds are probably the equivalent of…umm I dunno…yelling loudly perhaps?
This is serious disinformation and very bad epidemiology
1. The Chinese government started acting about January 20 at a time when the number of cases in Wuhan while very serious was ridiculously low compared to what we now see. For example on 20 Jan China reported just 278 cases, while on jan 1 just 54 cases. In a city of 11 million even if you assume reasonably, that they were under-reporting, the chances of spread during the first three weeks of January were very small. Even if there were on average 2000 cases by mid January the chances of any passender on a train being a carrier were just 2000/11 mill.
2. You totally misread the infection rates. If you want to see how many people have caught it from an imported case then you need to compare the number in the original state with infections about 6 days later in say Shanghai.
3. However you are right to point out some anomolies.
I never believed the Thailand figures ever,
Japan is probably about right,
Taiwan was given early warning by China and took action very very quickly – also SARS history,
Malaysia’s figures always dubious,
Korea we KNOW was due to the nutcase religious that hugged and kissed in their thousands,
Australia is just wrong, wrong wrong and wrong again. Only a fraction of thier cases came in from Wuhan. The huge source of the outbreak are in order Cruise ships, USA, Iran, China. Australia fairly quickly contained imported virus from China, but were not so enthusiastic about stopping people flying in from the USA.
Cambodia is a puzzle
USA seems to have mostly had a breakout due to Israel travel which in turn came from Italy. The NY outbreak started in the Orthodox community
Singapore has displayed the most excellent epidemic management
So there is NOTHING puzzling about the spread of the virus except Iran which is suspicious and possibly Italy.
While in early february Wuhan was still the epicentre of the epidemic this changed dramatically from the time of the Diamond princess when it became obvious that travelers from the west were spreading the disease.
@ Watcher: The problem remains.
168,000+ Chinese travel from Wuhan to Guangzhou. The infection rate is near zero.
A handful of Chinese travel from Wuhan to Iran/Italy. The infection rate is huge.
Nothing you have said changes this.
The Iran/Italy viral strain is different to the Wuhan strain.
excellent analysis of the spread
A bioweapon is not the same as bio-engineered.
You cannot prove it is a natural occurrence.
Just because Osterholm says there is no evidence doesn’t mean he has all the facts.
Try Dr. Paul Cottrell, a microbiologist who has analysed the genome sequence.
His conclusion: it is bio-engineered. There are long chains of
nucleotides that have been copied and pasted from other viruses.
“You cannot prove it is a natural occurrence.”
Scientists seem to be telling us that they can tell if it is bio-engineered or not.
If not bio-engineered, thus, it would be a natural occurrence.
Viruses are binary. Natural or man-made.
However, could they have the technology to alter the environment within which a virus could “evolve” into a new virus under the stimulus of the changed environment, morph into a new virus and thus be bio-engineered but showing no signs of bio-manipulation? Thus deniable as bio-engineered, a non-weapon.
Therefore, all the examination of the virus in a microscope would be very misleading evidence. It would distract us from exploring the context of the outbreak (the use of the “natural virus” as a weapon).
Scientists can prove to a certain degree of probability whether it is bio-engineered.
Paul Cottrell has done that, and concluded it is bio-engineered.
My point is that people who claim it is not bio-engineered have to offer proof.
The onus is on them, as all the evidence points the other way.
And they cannot prove it.
And so they have no right to dismiss arguments to the contrary.
Wonderful article, video and great to come to this refreshing website as a break from the insanity of MSM and other places!
I love how some of the various commentators below state with certainty this was manmade. My friends, only God knows.
Regardless of whether it is manmade or not it is here and we have to deal with it. Please pray for those in the frontline like my father who is 65 and a hospital doctor.
We may find out the truth one day with definite facts, or enough holes in the official story (like 911). Until then, Dear Saker makes the best point- let’s avoid the crazy theories and clickbait. Lets stick to facts and support each other.
The thing about this interview that struck me was the defensive arms crossed body language that Osterholm used during the whole bio-weapon answer.
I already checked his body language as it struck me as strange too. But he does it several times in the interview when discussing other things.
Bravo draga, Ovaj Rogan je šil, odavno prodao dušu đavolu. Iznenadjena sam da ga je ovaj momak stavio na Saker
Bravo dear, This Rogan is a shill, long ago sold his soul to the devil. I’m surprised this guy put it on Saker.
Liberalism without Liberties: the Overton Window Opened by COVID-19
” What is known is that the panic generated by the coronavirus is justifying the advance of social control mechanisms. This is the Overton Window opened by the pandemic: speeches against civil and individual liberties are gaining acceptance and will soon reach the stage of public policies. We are facing the birth of liberalism without liberties, of a computerized global dictatorship under the mark of “green capitalism”.
Most of the time when I read this page, my eyes get stuck on John’s bold numbers. What a brilliant idea !
168,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Guangzhou resulting in 1,357 confirmed cases.
1,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Iran resulting in 12,729 confirmed cases.
1,000 Chinese from Wuhan visit Italy resulting in 21,157 confirmed cases.
If that’s true then it’s impossible !
1000 kilometer rule…
Wuhan, then Qom (of all amazingly coincidental places),
Then, Italy, Europe, US (debateably already virulently propogating in the general population).
Russian military (specialists in biowarfare countermeasures) in Italy, to Bergamo, operations ongoing. IRGC conducting biological warfare response exercises (very much live, I expect) nationwide. China locked down (militarily) a city of eleven million and its provinvce.
Cartoon villain in chief (and his little friends) trying to find someone smart enough to count to two point two trazillion bazillion mazillion jillion dollars…
The number of flights from Wuhan to Paris in the first quarter 2019 was 4,232.
Using this as proxy, this is 1880 passengers for the 40 day period of interest.
What is known is that the number of passengers to Iran or Italy was less than those to Paris
The 1000 passengers from Wuhan to Italy (& Iran) is a guess based on this (1880 figure).
But it is an educated guess.
Anyone having unlimited access to the historical figures could give a more accurate figure.
Of course, the above was meant to be:
The number of passengers from Wuhan to Paris in the first quarter 2019 was 4,232.
Using this 90 day period as a proxy, this is 1880 passengers for the 40 day period of interest.
What is known is that the number of passengers to Iran or Italy was less than those to Paris
The 1000 passengers from Wuhan to Italy (& Iran) is a guess based on this (1880 figure).
But it is an educated guess.
Anyone having unlimited access to the historical figures could give a more accurate figure.
Or, did I miss something?
Remember that in China everybody is using masks, now, and they maintain distance from each other. Most of the vulnerable are self-isolating.
Sorry man but I disagree on this one.
Go to the 20 minute mark for the rebuttal.
After reading many elements brought by the comments of this article (including the passage of the video mentioned above, watch it !), I am absolutely certain that this virus was “made” by someone.
It could in theory be of natural origin, but the chances are extremely extremely extremely slim…
If we add to that a “natural” propagation in two very particular places : Wuhan and Qom then it exceeds my capacity of faith in a lucky (or unlucky) hazad …
What we have learned so far is that the dealings of governments are endlessly more sinister than we imagine. In every single major event in world history, that’s the case.
But here all of a sudden there’s nothing to see?
Come on, that’s not acceptable to anyone who gets their information from another source than MSM.
Nothing in PubMed shows that this “Dr.” Osterholm even has an M.D. I don’t even think he is a physician. His publishing record is what I would call secondary and tertiary publications; not the primary investigator on refereed primary research. He gets himself upfront a lot.
And he’s published in “Foreign Affairs” so he’s deep-state connected. An ad hominem observation, yes, but valid.
I think his statements can be take with a grain of salt.
If your facts on him are accurate, he has been outed, and thus, to be taken with utter contempt and disdain for his “conclusions”.
We need to reject these agents of the Deep State, not allow them space in the public square.
It’s like all the cyber hacking experts that parade in front of us and tell us Russia, China, Iran and North Korea hacked our commercial databases, steal our IP, exploit our emails, and are capable of bad cyber activities.
Ever see a line of code or digital hard evidence?
But Vault 7 wikileaks shows us all the CIA tools used to masquerade as Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
Do the experts tell us about these tools?
Experts, all of whom make their living working for CIA, NSA, various Military sectors, and the MIC corporations.
I have never believed one word from any of them.
“I’m an expert. The government is good. Believe me.” Bogus.
Checking credentials is a good start. As I mentioned in another post, the president of WHO Tedros Adhanom- is the shadiest creature of them all; no medical degree, genocidal record in Ethiopia, and back door vaccination dealings with Bill Gates before his appointment as a head of WHO:
And now he is telling the actual doctors that they’re not doing their tests the right way.
It is very, very important to zionazia that their biowarfare does not get exposed.
Looks to be a bioweapon.
See the statements by Prof. Francis Boyle at
Among his numerous other works for the common good, Prof. Boyle served on the board of directors of Amnesty International, as a consultant to the American Friends Service Committee, and on the Advisory Board for the Council for Responsible Genetics. He drafted the US domestic implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, that was approved unanimously by both Houses of the US Congress and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush.
Well he is being contradicted on the first one already:
One of the authors is a Dr Fauci (yes that Dr Fauci).
“If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS”
Investigative Reporter George Webb, along with Bulgarian investigative journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva have many questions about the potential role of (possibly unwitting) NATO couriers around the time of those strange military olympic games in Wuhan. Youtube has been pulling their videos.This is definitely worth a watch!
Not saying I believe the bio weapon theory, I am open to the possibility. It’s possible to develop such a thing in the lab in this day and age, it’s easy enough to distribute and there is plenty of motive to go around. The fact that the accused perpetrator now is one of the worst affected just shows that it could’ve been another half baked, poorly executed plan concocted by dimwitted buffoons, who, I think we can all agree, currently occupy most western governments.
What I do not care for is the opinion of one guy who supposedly worked with the DoD. Personally I am fairly well versed in nutrition, I can tell somebody competent on the subject apart from a regular nutritionist within the first 2 sentences out of their mouth. You would not believe how many people with fancy degrees are incompetent and sometimes utterly stupid on the subject. I once heard a doctor with over 40 years of experience in medicine say that, food should be used as an olive oil delivery system, it doesn’t matter what you eat as long as it’s drenched in olive oil. That is the single dumbest thing I ever heard out of a doctors mouth.
Long story short, fancy degree and “experience” don’t fill me with confidence in his assessment. It may be worse than a regular flu, but it’s nowhere near the level which would justify the (over)reaction and measures taken by our governments. Violating certain restrictions can land you in jail in some places, it’s getting way out of hand.
Not to mention the long, long list of benefits the establishment was able to extract from this thing is insane. People stopped gathering, or more specifically, protesting, they have successfully managed to make people suspicious of and mistrust each other. I was in the supermarket yesterday, walked past an elderly woman about half a meter away and the poor thing jumped away from me, later at check out, a guy coughed and people immediately treated him like a pariah, apparently nobody noticed that he took out a pack of cigarettes 1 minute earlier… it’s just sad what they are doing to us because of some virus.
Bioweapon or “natural” mutation aside, it could not have come at a better time. The virus is not responsible for the economic collapse, its been a long time coming, but it sure is a very convenient scape goat and the best thing to happen for the establishment in a long time.
Agree with a lot of what you wrote. The way I see it:
a.) This virus is very convenient, way too convenient, for the powers that be. It has broken down social cohesion, community spirit, spread fear and hysteria, and rendered every man for himself. Exactly what rulers like.
b.) Even if it was not released as a bio weapon (though the possibility cannot be discounted), every Western Govt has taken full advantage of it. “Never let a crisis go waste” as some arsehole in the US Govt once said.
c.) It has been treated as a major geopolitical matter right from the beginning and not as a medical and humanitarian crisis. The finger pointing at China comes from those who have developed and continue to develop bio-weapons to this day.
d.) A naturally evolved virus, once recognized and already spreading, can be piggybacked on to encourage its spread in certain regions. It is curious indeed that the initial galloping spread affected two of the West’s perpetually maligned enemies, China and Iran. How convenient!
e.) John has done a very interesting analysis of travel from China and the spread of infection. It is damning evidence that the spread was not a natural affair but fostered and controlled by evil agents.
Altogether there are way too many coincidences and convenient outcomes for the rulers. An Act of God this virus may still be, but there are strong reasons to think otherwise.
it is too late for natural vs bioweapon debate on cv 19,what is of immediate concern for the ordinary joe,jill,ahmed,fathima,stein,immanuel, catherine and so on so forth of ,the ordinary folks in this globe is, the coming inevitable ”lockdown” by the powers that be ,good or bad ,to the local street and how to survive it,seek peace with your enemies, hug the ones you are with ,make your own bread and live in harmony with mother nature,it is too late for anything else.
Amen! well said.
Various “experts”know with certainty this is a bio weapon and then they release a Youtube video…
I asked my 65 year old doctor Dad (40 years experience) if this was a bioweapon or released on the public by someone. He said it very well could be, but we will never know. Furthermore, the elites make it very convincing that it originated in China. One day we may find out for sure, but by then the damage will be done.
All i am saying is protect you and your family! Plant some greens, keep some chickens, and grab some guns and ammo.
The damage of COVID is here. Stay close and protect yourselves!
FWIW, I have my own views about the pandemic. I base my opinions on multiple sources and not just one expert’s opinion. However, I do not agree that this virus is an act of God.
What I have come to fathom over the years is that the establishment releases snippets of information via its designated sources. This information is too coincidental in some cases to be dismissed by independent experts like Michael Osterholm. Case in point, this guy (Bill Ryan) in the video talks of a virus to be released specifically on the Chinese nation … this video was recorded some 10 years ago. How could he possibly know with so much accuracy about this so far in advance, considering the events we have now come to witness for ourselves? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmWM51mTY_c&feature=youtu.be This and other sources confirm to me that this is definitely a deliberate attempt to target Asians, whether it is a bioweapon created in a lab (which is my suspicion) or whether it is a mutating virus that has affected Asians in the past, and has somehow been captured, stored and unleashed on the Chinese population as planned.
Now, back to this guy called Bill Ryan, as I said, he releases information some 10 years ago that a virus will be released by the NWO onto the Chinese population, then, in his video, he goes off about some whacky stuff that gives his story a nutcase twist. This is a deliberate psyop strategy, common to many of the NWO’s designated preachers. Release some credible snippets of entirely credible information then ensure the general public dismisses the entire story as a laughable conspiracy theory as the story teller veers off into sci-fi material. The intention being to not release the truth in its entirety, at every occasion, so that only a small proportion of the populace become believers while the majority state content to not buy into any conspiracy theory.
Whether Bill Ryan is one of the establishment’s designated information agents, I do not know, but I have my suspicions that he is. A lot of what he says in the video does not seem credible… like how they allowed his source (a retired British military General) into the round table meeting ‘by accident’…
Is the virus, worse than the common flu? I am inclined to believe so, given that the Chinese and Russians acted quickly to contain the virus and seal their borders/territories.
My own take on this Coronavirus affair is similar to that on the 9/11 attack – it’s the “Let it Just Happen” scenario. It is possible that a mutated virus – with not fully known effects – sort-of ‘escaped” some lab somewhere (Wuhan is the least likely candidate, IMO). Some people knew of this fortuitous “escape” and had the means and the opportunity to bring the escaped “agent” to China, there to be released to propagate silently for a while. This right during the time the Trade talks were going on and the Chinese were ‘digging in their heels”. What better way to “help them” be more “reasonable’ than to tank their economy and cause the world to start thinking about the vulnerability of that supply line?
I think we all recall how at the time – this would be January-early February many of us – here and elsewhere – thought the virus had a special affinity to Asian genotype. It’s not whether we – on-line conspiracy theorists that we are – were wrong or right. Rather, could it be that the actual “spreaders” thought so too? that somehow there was this little “silver bullet” that could be miraculously selective?
In any case, it’d certainly appear the Chinese figured out something was afoot, so they got on top of it all, as we have seen, using whatever harsh measures they had to. IOW, never mind whether it was or wasn’t a bioweapon. It needed to be treated as one, and that was that.
By sometime in February the same virus popped up in Iran – of all places in Qoms with many government officials becoming seemingly infected. In Iran and not in South-east Asia, or kazakhstan or for that matter, Russia, which had countless contacts with China till they closed the border – quite early, I should say. May be Iran became a target of opportunity using a “slightly tweaked” virus? I mean who could resist such an opportunity?
Further into February and suddenly it’s all over the place in Lombardy Italy, not exactly a Chinese tourist destination. Escobar provided his theory on that, which we can take under advisement, but the jury is out, even though so far, no one has figured out how and why it’d pop up in Italy in just that area. Indeed, putting on my tinfoil hat, what I find curious is the lack of curiosity about why there? where are all the theories that should have been bandied about? what, our MSM outlets are suddenly shorn of deep questioners?
By that time, the mid-to-late February, perhaps other entities, not necessarily the same as the original “spreader” or “opportunity exploiters” saw a golden opportunity: since the economic situation the world over was teetering already, and many an economist warned of a possible bursting bubble come the end of the year, why not burst it ahead of time, kick up a huge shut down, which would then produce huge bail-outs, and bingo – no more austerity, and the entire global economy gets a “restart”?
All these second “entities” (or perhaps even “third”) had to do is to just let it happen. Which was easy enough.
Three more things to consider here:
1. Modern monetary theory (MMT) which was already known in many circles is becoming all the rage, literally overnight. The make money out of nothing, no need to worry about no silly deficits theory , has serious academic chops behind it. yet, to those of us whose reputation s are not resting on academic career in the illustrious reaches of university economics department, there always seemed to be something “slightly” remiss. Something that bears similarity to that other curious thing called “logic” or the even curioser thing called ‘common sense”. Then again, it must be just too complicated for us simple rubes that we all are.
I still find the timing interesting, may be because Time is my hobby horse?
2. How and when did the “it affects predominantly Asians, or Han Chinese” turn into “it affects everyone”? again, it’s an issue of timing. First hardly anyone who is not Chinese gets infected, then well…we know. It’s again the abruptness andof the transition that I find somewhat curious. Plus the lack of curiosity about the timeline.
3. Serious pushback against the “bioweapon theory” not just from The saker but also from ‘b’ of MoonofAlabama. Neither known to be shy about debunking any number of faux narratives (to our eternal gratitude). Yet, on comment boards here, just as on the MoA blog, the predominant opinions by individuals from all kind of places and backgrounds seem to push the other way. Every which way, I should say.
Again, I’d offer my own theory for this most interesting phenomenon, which is really quite simple, going along the lines of “if it looks like a duck, …etc.”. Basically, when things simply don’t seem to add up logically, there’ll be those, who instead of dispensing with logic (using the “it’s too complicated” tried and true approach), or distrusting what their common sense tells them (can’t be that simple! no way! who’d do such a thing!?) , stubbornly choose to follow a trail of bread crumbs laid bare for our own lying eyes.
Just as we all did when 9/11 happened. And when the Anthrax attacks happened. And when that Ukrainian airliner was shot down by the ‘rogue” Iranian air defense battery (oh, they shot it down alright. The only question is how they came to do that….and how did it all become so quiet on that front?).
Michael Osterholm’s body language changed into a defensive posture in the latter part when he answered the question whether it was a bio-weapon. Prior to that, in terms of speech, we see a common confidence trick, displaying all his medals like a Soviet general.
There is no (conclusive) proof that it was a bio-weapon, however, more importantly, there is also no (conclusive) proof that it was not a bio-weapon or even something in between.
When Saker posted his 14th March article, I was somewhat taken aback. Why was he talking about the military aspects when _war_ involves a huge ranging aspects from miltary, economic (war capacity) and telecommunications. Arguing solely on just one narrow aspect is logic cherry picking* – ultimately pointless and a wasteful exercise.
There is such a thing called a scorched earth tactic. When an empire sees itself weakening and dying, it may choose to bring everyone down with itself .. or at least attempt to. If the dollar is to weaken, it will try to bring everyone down as well. You end up with the same net difference.
* Something that is out of character with Saker
The point is:
It doesn’t matter if this virus is a bio-lab created one or naturally evolved.
What matters most is:
How high is the believing and acceptance of populations of enforced information and shut-down of economies in affected countries.
If people start not to believe any more what governments through mainstream media are propagating than the outcome will be different.
However, at the present my observation tells me that the majority doesn’t think logically by themselves. Those masses are believers what they are told. Simply because “why should all those doctors and virologists lie” goes their way of thinking.
If the percentage of “believers” amounts to more than half a population those governments (and its behind the scene actors) have won.
What I assume through observation near and far away (however, maybe not always accurate) is that more than 75 % of populations are believers at the present time.
I do hope this will change but masses can easily manipulated – as history tells us throughout recorded past times.
Your right about it not mattering about whether its artificial or not and I can’t see the point of creating such a virus when they appear quite regularly anyway. If it is artificial then the point where the disease spreads from is not a clue about who’s behind it since a bottle of virus can be flown to anywhere.
Interestingly the British Gov. health authorities have said
“As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK. … Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase. The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.”
But this wasn’t anounced till 21st of March and the emergency legislation went ahead on the 25th, in a form which must have taken weeks to draft and containing clauses which are now a permanent part of the law.
Its come in handy for blaming economic failure on too, I liked the way the share price crash was reported, on the BBC, as having been caused by the virus without any evidence.
sorry..I don’t believe this guy..he is another in a line of experts “looking for a crisis”..
If one breaks down some simple notions… non-MSM sources have reported that the COVID-19 strain in Wuhan is different to that of Italy’s which is different to that in Japan… This implies that the virus did not spread from China. Its source must have been outside of China.
There has been word that of the 5 known strains of the virus, all strains have been identified in the US, leading some to suspect that it originated there. Do we know if this is factually the case? If true, then one can clearly dismiss some ‘expert opinions’ from those of the disinformation agents. The MSM has clearly avoided discussing the different strains of COVID-19. It seems to be a convenient issue for them not to discuss. Just putting it out there.
Health and strength to all peace lovers.
If this is accurate, and it may very well be so, its going to make containing the bug rather difficult here in the states. Mostly b/c the one glove fits all scenario that the elites insist on using as the mechanism of choice, simply wont work w/this bug. It will drive the health care industry batty.
And if there is anything the elites hate more, its a thing that wont conform to their policy’s.
Wait a minute!
Here is an expert who says that here is a 0.0000001% that this virus in NOT bio engineered.
The King is Naked
Frank Mcdonald, thanks for that Link. It is both a lesson in clear thinking and a chance to practice your German: Der Konig ist Nakt. I should like to add one point:
This German expert says (correctly, in my opinion) that the West is only reacting because “the Chinese government made a very big thing out of it, and this became important politically”. He does not speculate why the Chinese govt made such a big operation out of it; but I do. I have already posted my speculation on this site, that the Chinese have long known the U$ is plotting biowarfare, and are well prepared for such an attack. That is why, when this novel virus was detected, the Chinese govt rolled out their full program of Civil Defense Against Infectious Diseases; its first trial run.
All this discussions is the virus this or that or ‘who dun it’ are misdirections.
The only important question is: who is the winner and who the loser from this new twist of developments.
From Dr Fauci, of US National Institute of Health: “ the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)”
One tenth of one percent.
It seems some people trend to not believing anything and see conspiracies everywhere. Which I suppose is a sort of defense mechanism their mind makes after realizing the whole media machine has been lying to them their whole life.
None of that is important right now though. What’s important is that it’s real.
We are witnessing a real paradigm shift. We are just at the very beginnings of it. It’s becoming more apparent that everything is going to change. The whole World Order is going to change. Trade is definitely going to be affected; perhaps state structures. We may see some states collapse.
Who is able to see what’s on the other side? Who knows; but we should be prepared to be surprised.
For some reason this classic RapNews (dated from somewhere between December 2010 and May 2011) has seemingly been removed from easy public access. Listen/view and you may see why.
A PDF of the lyrics can be found on the Juice Media website and MP3 audios can be found with a bit of searching (mainly in non-English webspaces).
However, luckily one quiet corner has a copy of the YouTube video still available if one uses the right web search engines. But don’t leave it too late, as I suspect this will suddenly disappear by way of the ‘invisible hand’ as well once it gets out of the bottle again… take your own copy if possible for future reference etc.
“7#Revolution comes to America” (8:17) 24 March 2011 
In the wake of the Arab Spring, and the protests against Governor Scott Walker in Milwaukee, Juice Rap News went into fantasy mode, imagining what it would be like to have widespread political protests in the USA. Features impersonations of John Pilger and Glenn Beck.”
“[…] Yes, kids, that’s the real enemy of this land
Ok well, Glenn, stay near and we’ll get your reaction
To other opinions around the world as they happen
First we have to take the next caller
Carlos Barranquilla on the United-Statesian border
Carlos, you’re with a charity, tell us what do you do
Bueno, this NGO’s called Gringos Are Humans Too
The US can’t give its citizens even basic services
So for the last thirty years we’ve been sending aid workers in as
Maids and servants; and it’s urgent that the aid keeps
Flowing while the people take on this regime
What’s this? What the heck did that taco-bender say?
Mexican aid-workers? no way in hell, Jose!
The Tea Party will shoot these hordes of immigrants on sight
We’ll defend our borders, form militias and fight
Listen, culero, the walls, the fences and things
They ain’t to keep us out, They’re to keep Americans in.
Ok, the guest who we’ll ask next
Is Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez…”
I like Joe Rogan, but sometimes I question his judgement when inviting some of his guests. He once had that woman Renée DiResta from the discredited company New Knowledge, who were instrumental in pushing the “Russian interfering with out elections” narrative. Joe does nodded his head and accepted all her propaganda about Russian bots without challenging her.
I had this hunch that Michael Osterholm was some how connected to the Bill and Melinda gates foundation. A quick google search confirmed this
Quoting from the article:
“What CEPI is doing is providing a proof-of-concept approach to making world better prepared for new infectious agents,” said Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, publisher of CIDRAP News. Osterholm served on the planning committees that helped CEPI develop its initial vaccine targets. “I very much applaud this activity and how it reconsiders how we license and deploy these vaccines.”
This is an organization that is very connected with Event 201, an event that that has been dissected by various analyst in detail, Amazing Polly, James Corbett etc. Think: drills of 9/11. There is a hidden agenda, and sometimes the speakers at the event let slip a telling detail.
I much prefer Gilad Atmons’ whole take on the corona virus. See his Unz review article “Public Hysteria vs. Scientific Thinking”
I congratulate Brian Rose and host of Londonreal, not a man known for being a conspiracy theorist, for having David Icke on as a guest to talk about the corona epidemic. Brian upfront disagreed with David, but still thought it wise to “hedge his bets” and listen to what David had to say. Why, because David, whatever you might think of him, has made a lot of uncanny predictions which have come true, and this epidemic is one of them, actually not so much the epidemic itself but the way it is being used to advance agenda. Time will tell.
Thanks for that. I think these people know more than we do about what’s coming but instead of warning us that this is an operation for a total power grab, An attack against humanity and all that is holy, they are part of the attack. They mock us with their knowledge, drop in magic numbers. Participate in drills. Keep the debate about instruments not the cause or purpose of these instruments. Osterholm, Gates? Creeps. Much more than creeps.
Could we use negative pressure iron lungs (used in the 20th century to fight respiratory diseases) that are simple to produce and operate:
These devices can be mass produced very cheaply and provide a very natural respiration:
‘The machine was powered by an electric motor with air pumps from two vacuum cleaners. The air pumps changed the pressure inside a rectangular, airtight metal box, pulling air in and out of the lungs.
The first clinical use of the Drinker respirator on a human was on 12 October 1928, at the Boston Children’s Hospital in the US. The subject was an eight-year-old girl who was nearly dead as a result of respiratory failure. Her dramatic recovery, within less than a minute of being placed in the chamber, helped popularize the new device.’
A cheap version of iron lung made from plywood made by a UK car company:
Nuffield was taken by the design, and in November of that year he offered to turn over part of his car factory for the manufacture of the Both respirators, and to provide the respirators free of charge to any hospital in the Commonwealth that requested one. In spite of some initial opposition – Nuffield was criticized in the British Medical Journal by Frederick Menzies for using a design before the iron lung had been perfected, and for supplying it to hospitals which may lack the knowledge as to how to employ it – over 1700 Both-Nuffield respirators were distributed to hospitals. By the early 1950s, for example, there were over 700 Both-Nuffield iron lungs in the United Kingdom, compare.
Conspiracy theories are flying because the governments’ response seem illogical. Are they incompetent or are they lying about something important? There are MANY things that just don’t add up.
Only one thing explains the apparent incoherence: the system has crashed and the elites have not found a solution, yet.
The governmental decisions so far are a way to avoid the uncontrollable reaction of the workers if they find out that the system has collapsed, that they will lose their jobs and income, that they will starve if they do not organize and struggle to take the government in their own hands. Everything is being done to avoid the riots, the revolution, because they believe that they will find a solution to the mess they created.
But, there will be no solution coming from the present governments. Changes are inevitable.
The Covid19 “epidemic” is being used to cover the collapse of the west’s financial system.
Its collapse was imminent but this was the perfect opportunity to usher in the new financial system which will impoverish the masses and further enrich the elites.
By guaranteeing workers affected by the the financial downturn “free money”, the workers became unwitting accomplices in the destruction of their own society and freedoms. They accepted the the helicopter money which will drive the national debt to destroy the system. They will not be able to say that they had nothing to do with the unsustainable debt.
It is also being used to ascertain just how effective government run scare campaigns can be. In this particular case, I can only imagine that it has been successful beyond their wildest dreams, at least in western countries. Martial law is just around the corner and the people themselves are welcoming it.
Where to from here?
The Covid19 “epidemic” is being used to cover the collapse of the west’s financial system.
Yes, amazing the prescience of Mr. T. “knowing” all this home lock-down would be over b4 easter.
So rude, too, horning in on what’s clearly the domain of that other “white hat”, the one with the magic wand.
Mr. T & his buddies & owners are partying hardy this weekend, you can be sure of that.
i’ll guess at key largo.
Note how just past few days amazing timing we have the brit NHS itself backing down the numbers by a whallop, not just a few %, from their hysteria up till then.
And that bunch of medical “experts” gathered, all announcing they were way off.
think any of them will be demoted, fired, or even charged with culpable homicide for the toxic “advice” they dispensed to agencies, with the resultant millions of closed businesses, and maybe hundreds to thousands of the ensuing suicides coming unless the economy gets restarted?
They’re all folding their cards & pushing away from the table. It’s a true timed card game, just like those in any betting parlor.
Timestamp gives snapshot of how much the average slave gets per person in this munificent bailout, vs how much the banksters extorted this time.
Because those 2 sums are more than one order of magnitude apart.
It’s like 2008 dejavu all over again.
No way the governments will be able to avoid the complete collapse of the system. No reforms will be possible. The time for change has arrived, and the virus is just giving them time to think about a way out. They will not find any.
There is a kind of perverse logic to Covid 19 being a bio-weapon. Such an outrageous and reckless action would be just as outrageous as the murder of Soleimani, the cancellation of the JCPOA, the cruise missile attacks on Syria, the closure and ransacking of Russian embassies, etc…It would also be ironic that the very weapon that the Empire uses on its enemies comes back to wreck havoc in the Homeland. But it just seems a little too crazy….but then you a guy like Pompeo and you see how absolutely diabolical these people running the Empire really are.
The 341 varieties/genomes from Iceland prove that the virus already existed in Iceland previous to Wuhan.
The 2084 varieties/genomes worldwide prove that the virus already existed worldwide previous to Wuhan.
This is also suggested by various people who are unlikely to have been in contact with the virus; e.g., Boris Johnston, Rand Paul, Prince Charles, etc, testing positive.
The Covid-19 test looks for antibodies that the body has used to fight the disease. It does not tell how long ago the disease occurred. The assumption is that it must be very recent. But that is only because “everyone” believes that everything started with Wuhan, which it didn’t.
The deliberate spreading of the virus was probably only to China Iran and Italy.
John, it is amazing the analysis you have done. You used a new methodology, a completely fresh mindset, to shed light on this affair. Kudos to you, sir.
If your travel numbers (passenger counts, flight counts) are correct, some very disturbing conclusions emerge. I urge all readers to go through your posts carefully and at least twice over. Please post your analysis elsewhere too, I think your analysis needs to spread. Who knows, even if there is no evil agency at work, your analysis may lead to fresh scientific thinking on how viruses spread and what things could cause their contagion-factor to vary so widely.
Compile your comments into an article and offer it to Saker to publish here intact.
It might get traction, get picked up by others like Zero Hedge that regularly takes Pepe’s articles, Saker’s articles and even some of my articles in the past.
When you are on the Vineyard, you go global.
There are two tests, one is serological, looking for the antibodies, the other is detecting the viral nucleic specifiques. The antibody test cannot diagnose COVID19 early on, because there are not yet developed antibodies. In some infected with fulminant course and lethal exit antibodies never develop.
Worth noting that unz.com has a long article that grew out of the comments section that was written by a retired 40-year veteran of US bioweapons program who states exactly the opposite. The author also says that a modified adenovirus is the weapon of choice to cause sarcoma in South American politicians who step out of line, such as Chavez. The man in the Rogan interview is just a well-credentialed “Nothing to see here, folks” type running narrative control in the alt-media space.
Many of the Serb inmates at the UN detention center at the Hague developed cancer (either during detention or shortly after their release). It was very peculiar and raised concern.
A Dutch investigation was ordered and they reached the conclusion that : “There is no evidence of a cancer cluster at the UN detention”
I noticed the same language is being used by Osterholm: “There is no evidence of this being a bioweapon”
Usually scientific language is not as that categorical. ..highly unlikely…probably..we therefore conclude that…etc
I too want to warn everyone undermining corona. It’s actually even much more deadly than official death numbers.
Read this one:
“The real death toll for Covid-19 is at least 4 times the official numbers»
Nembro, one of the municipalities most affected by Covid-19, should have had – under normal conditions – about 35 deaths. 158 people were registered dead this year by the municipal offices. But the number of deaths officially attributed to Covid-19 is 31 ”
Folks, these numbers are facts. The increased death numbers in Italy (and likely in Spain too) are far more higher than official corona death numbers. In Nembro and Bergamo about 4 times, in Pesaro even 6.1 times higher.
mod: click bait sites with unsubstantiated claims
IMHO, this guy, given his biography and the numbers he advances, is the very most scaremonger one could possibly imagine. I prefer keeping Raoult’s thinking as sounder guidellines.
Worked his whole life for the DS/IC
Inside New York hospitals and candid interviews with staff – video below. Only one hospital of 5 had any patients of March 25th, all complained of limited supplies. Testing was only available if you showed “severe” systems and/or approved by a doctor.
Yet the entire city is shut completely down. You can kill/harm people with a virus, you can also kill/harm people by completely destroying their economy as well. In either case you have an effective bio weapon.
Personally I have no fear of this virus whatsoever, I have near perfect health. I do fear the economic tsunami though, and the social disruption as a result. The US Gov felt generous to give the US people 454b USD yesterday, and gave banks, state gov and corporations 5.2t USD with H.R. 748.
People focus on ‘who did this’, not ‘why did they do this’. The latter is far more insightful. ‘JFK and the Unspeakable’ is a great example of this, your economy was just turned off, ask yourself why, not by who.
“Personally I have no fear of this virus whatsoever, I have near perfect health.”
One of the nasty properties of Covid-19 is that you can carry it with little or no symptoms while infecting others who lack your ‘near perfect health’ – a ‘Typhoid Mary’ in effect. If those infected are old enough then they are at high risk of death.
Millenials apparently have renamed Covid-19 as the ‘Boomer Remover’ virus.
Is economic and social disruption a higher priority than death to an elderly population?
This fellow is genuinely frightening. He is an establishment insider. He also wrote a book (published on 9/11 2000) called “Living Terrors: What America Needs to Know to Survive the Coming Bioterrorist Catastrophe”.
He is telling us how this Coronavirus crisis will develop. I think it likely he knows.
However his statement that … “I can tell you this is definitiely not a Bioterrorist Weapon” is not to be trusted. All that insider Masonic magic number crap, establishment connections and prophetic insight. Hmm.
Still thinks its an operation by the international deep state, based on the recent historical record and where this project is obviously going … however, maybe these people are playing a stronger hand than we can, on current information, imagine.
I strongly recommend everyone to listen to this interview with Dr John Ioannidis of Stanford University:
According to him, we still don’t have solid data to decide how lethal and dangerous Covid19 is, if it is comparable to Influenza, or not.
Thanks for the link. It in nice to see/hear some reasoned opinions from an expert.
I am afraid the conspiracy crazies and sellers of fake cures are out in full cry. Thanks for the sane words and keep safe.
1. I was going to do a parody conspiracy but a) I probably could not have come close to some of the “real” ones being posted and b) I was afraid that if it was nutty enough and pushed the right buttons it might go viral.
This is the real “culprit”: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5745245.html
The f***ing “Pangolin”..! :P
All this is really clownish.
Why I think so..?
Because of this: https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
(Btw, I suggest to visit this interesting site, that does not seem to seek profit clickbaiting…)
Meanwhile, I prefer the explanation of Mr Shamir: https://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-coronavirus-fear-and-poverty/ (…or maybe Unz is clickbaiting too…)
Regards, and keep safe, all of you..!
(I´m really sick, but not of corona, but of this farse.)
From all the information I can find, ( I did pure physics and maths, and have no medical qualifications), the numbers simply do not add up. The official figures from the uk government for 2020, show a lower total death rate than normal. There is absolutely no evidence that any more people are dying, than is normal.
The total number of deaths is down. It is lower than normal.
It doesn’t really matter if this latest flu, is man made or natural.
It is killing less people than is normal, based on current uk govt statistics re all deaths.
Yet despite my own analysis, of the figures, (which may be wrong) I am terrified.
Not about myself. I am 66 years old, still in good health, occasionally get a bit of a cold (I have had flu about 3 times in my life) I have seen my doctor once since the age of 50, and even then it was trivial – ear infection from diving in polluted water.
I expect to die, sometime in the future, but I hope to make 100 years old first – with my lovely wife.
95% of people, I have come in contact with (and I have massive respect for the saker(who has already had the flu, and b on moa – he has too) believe the official numbers of deaths, which are significantly below what is normal., yet they are all terrified too. I find this really scary.
I think coronavirus is a mind virus, which seriously degrades the cognitive abilities of lots of people, I have enormous respect for.
Try off-g instead. I don’t think they have been infected yet…though they are being seriously denial of service attacked.
I am preparing for the future, by growing much more food than normal in my back garden.
Supply-chains are being quickly destroyed. I expect that millions will die, not because of coronavirus (lungs) but because of coronavirus (brain)
off-g – not findable by Google, though it comes up first on duck duck go
OffGuardian – because facts really should be sacred
[Search domain off-guardian.org] https://off-guardian.org
I’ve heard and read opinions of several specialists in many fields with many degrees, who have held or hold important positions in their respective countries, some agree with this gentleman, as to the seriousness of this disease and its origins, and some don’t. I must confess I’m suspicious of those who say that this disease possesses a serious health threat to all ages, what comes to mind is what was said at Event 201, that they had to teach health care professionals not to say the wrong things.
I don’t know if this was planned, or plans were already in place to take advantage of such a crisis, one thing is for certain there are going to be consequences. The fact that entire countries were shut down will be used as a justification for these consequences. A few days ago, I caught the end of a BBC interview of Antonio Guterres. He was asked if there were going to be consequences because of the covid-19 crisis, he replied that the crisis showed the need for world governance and that it was a wonderful opportunity for companies in the digital field.
Visit the World Economic Forum website, they have everything planned out for us with regard to every aspect of our lives. Click on “Platforms,” and then “Covid Action Platform,” you will find a diagram with a hub and various categories on its perimeter. If you click on these categories it will lead you into more categories and so on, this diagram is supposedly 200 layers deep; you have to sign up though to see the contents of these categories. It has been described as model for world governance.
CoronaVirus Timeline – What Really Happened? Google WHOCC
Winterpeg, Milan clothing industry (official supplier to MWG oufits= vector) Strzok, names BSL-4’s involved directly
As always, there are some pretty shocking everyday things that connect into this:
Athletes must take lots of vaccinations, Dr Judy Mikovitz on Sarah Westall’s show March 27, 2020 said it has been in our flue shots for some time.
this dr.has some utube vids up on vaccines. must be someone of note,because she’s got a snope-a-dope (snopes) entry.
I thought I would scan the comments to get a sense of others views. Sure enough, they mostly mirror my own. But as they have identified in this interview, it is because I am a ‘whack job’. I’m one of those who will not accept a vaccination. I’ve actually read an insert and I won’t have that sh_t injected into my body, thank you. In fact, this individual is very big on vaccines and appeared to me to be very entrenched in a system I have been speaking against for a long time. That he is a CFR member just puts a cherry on top. I raised an eyebrow when he diverted Lymes disease from the east coast (across the bay from Plumb Island) to the far side of the country. Funny, he never mentioned that the parasite(s) involved build and hide behind a biofilm. He mentioned that some birds eat ticks but didn’t mention that it is a good part of the diet of the Possum. But those animals do not have a pretty face which is enough reason for those who like to kill things to kill them. This could have been just ignorance on his part. His solutions and connections cause me to be unable to share this interview with anyone. What I did find of value is that this current virus is 10-15 times worse than flu and will be around for many months. This has been my greater fear and suspicion. Also, that constant hand washing and wearing surgical masks do little to stop the spread. So these items which my intuition causes me to agree with will continue to govern how I conduct my life, not in fear or panic but in caution. I also am not convinced this jumped from animals though I hope that maybe some might rethink their extreme cruelty towards God’s creation and find a better way to eat. If we have any hope for healthy food and health care that heals, it will have to be ripped away from the giant cartels that are in full control for profit.
This interview hasn’t changed anything, sadly.
Thank you Commodore Saker, Sub-Commander Mods, and good-faith commanders/participants.
Based on review of the discussion, this is a very significant article in the library, mostly because of the almost 360° positions taken by the contributing commanders, some of which are well proven in analysis and conveying that analysis to the community.
Let’s take a look, just one step expansion, as our frame of reference, what ever the origin of the disease, assume for the moment, a single species/antigen genetic configuration, there is a wide barrage of information terrorism being conducted against the 99%, worldwide, and the top supposed representatives, are definitely part of it! They deliver the message, at least!
You might say,
I think many here… should be able to buy that (for all the right reasons).
There is difficulty in the trend of the presentation of… discussion and pronouncement that are only framed to possibly be conceived of, as meaningfully factual, by the supposed top authorities on the issue, officially communicating the work, determination of direction of policy, and method of implementation of that policy.
I present a very concatenated list of strangely unaddressed very relevant fact, and fact mismatch:
1. if it’s novel to human population, why is there such a stark divergence in of response across the human population bases (multiple), including a vast majority with mostly or completely asymptomatic response?!
2. lockdown/quarantine: is more appropriate for which:
a. stopping a contagion?
b. stopping a political revolution?
b.’s correctness, btw, was convincingly explained to me here, by one of our commanders – thank you
3. a. has there been official communication that the testing for this antigen (the one supposedly), has some very significant validity issues?
3. b. is it just that I’m such a dim wit, or has there been no really meaningful explanation of policy, i.e. de facto martial law, in terms of a logical linkage, even to a probably at least unreliable testing, to a remarkably unrepresentative segment of the worldwide 99%?!
3. c. with out this logical, fact-based framework/explanation, there is of course, no measurable benchmarks, in… collected meaningful data, to establish milestones for when the constitutionally embedded personal rights and freedoms may be returned to the people?!
3. d. of course I am aware of … some fact-like talking points, bandied about by the supposed representatives of the people and others, and some dense (and sludgy) quasi-(mystic-like relationship between … some kind of testing who knows if they are all in fact similar in their measurement, of whatever it is that they are supposed to be measuring, there is categorically no presented, coherent milestone measurables for when the constitutionally embedded personal rights and freedoms of individuals (in the 99%) may be returned to the people?!
massively concatenated, for obvious reasons
This takes us to the eye of the storm, so to speak, of this “perfect storm”
If difficult to readily accept, just try observing the events through this lens, as an experiment – try it on.
There have been many, many articles, presented here in the Vineyard, expounding on the falseness of the supposition that the nation-state is only an organizational sub-division to manage the 99%
I wish I could spend the time to cite a few – but I can’t right now. I therefore have to accept challenge on this point, by those who might challenge it; and I will address it as required.
It is impossible for me to overlook the timing of this event, as the last remaining puffs of fumes, supporting the house-of-cards of the economy/financial system/societal infrastructures, all eroded and undermined by a minority, systemic game-playing ideological extremists, psychotically broken from the reality of existence in humanity!
There is of course a lot more to say about the herding by fear, which is what almost all messaging, ultimately boils down to, the interaction between the ongoing program to emasculate biologically and evolutionary-based male human thought and action, which is likely to have been at least a 50% driving force in the development of all of the good things the human civilizations has created, thereby enabling an active discrimination against individuals not in-tune with the new social prerogative of value-signaling their fear, and/or politically correct positions, whatever we are being told to say or do, at the moment.
But is more important to understand, and believe, as I do
<blockquote)it is fightable!
I welcome all good faith criticisms and rejoinders.
thank you for reading
I read your post in brief and can tell you I am with you in what you have said. First of all Rogan lost his credibility to me long time ago, so the same is applicable to his guests. They are a perfect red herring. It is to late and I can not write much but in general, you got it. Thanks! Check amazingpolly.net her research is very good. Also the link below
will be a revelation
This expert argues against Covid-19 being a bioweapon only from authority. He offers no evidence that refutes the idea that it is a bioweapon. He does not discuss in anyway the papers that have argued that Covid-19 contains proteins which resemble HIV equivalents. I do not consider the bioweapon possibility refuted in any way.
Michael Osterholm is obviously an establishment figure both in his background and his statements in this video. The integrity of the establishment is highly questionable as you well know. The whole concept of employment is founded on agency. One serves at the will of one’s employer. I do not expect anyone in his situation to take a position on sensitive subjects that is contrary to the official position unless that person is prepared to leave his employment. Great expertise is worthless if you must take seriously the idea that testimony on an issue has been suborned.
I agree with you, here is what Rappoport has to say about CDC virus experts (EIS), extract: “Graduates of this EIS program (elite group of the CDC hunting virus) have gone on to occupy key positions in the overall medical cartel” … “Several hundred investigations a year. An unparalleled opportunity to shape the truth into propaganda… EIS agents rush to the scene of outbreaks, and send their pronouncements back through the hallowed halls of academia and the CDC, into the press, into Big Pharma, into multiple government agencies.” https://saintandrewstwinflame.com/2020/03/26/covid-the-media-dragons-are-out-for-trumps-blood-jon-rappoport-wednesday-march-25-2020/ … I would had i see no reason why Russian health “experts” would be immune to big pharma bribery.
Man-made or natural virus?
No hard evidence it’s man-made. But can it be outright dismissed given the history of CIA (the most repulsive, nefarious organization since the house of Saud)?
Some probability & statistics…
1. Odds are you’re more likely to know US foreign policy by simply believing the exact opposite what the gov’t says.
Like when CIA-man Pompeo talks about Iran & Venezuela, we all know it’s all lies. Probable it’s the same with “Wuhan virus.”
2. A number of noteworthy names strongly suggest the virus may not be natural (or worse): Pepe Escobar, Philip Geraldi, E Michael Jones, Scott Bennett, Michael Springmann, China gov’t, Iran gov’t.
3. Some of the coincidences: Event 201 (CIA involved), Fort Detrick closure, Wuhan military games, Wuhan is a manufacturing & tech hub & US is in a trade war with China.
Seems like at least the possibility that the virus is man-made cannot be outright dismissed.
Also it’s nice how the virus has taken the heat off Netanyahu.
This individual goes into a lot of detail about the virus spread and the use or uselessness of masks, including surgical masks and those that are homemade. I told my wife what was presented in this interview, to which she took great exception and sent me this.