“All that can be said is that the question of who shot down MH17 remains unresolved, primarily due to blatant interference in the investigation by the NATO powers.”That pretty much tells us who really shot it down, doesn’t it? But, lets look at a few of the actual facts that are not in dispute.
First off, context. Five months earlier a US orchestrated and backed coup led by fascist militias had violently overthrown the legally elected government of Ukraine and replaced it with a government of the far right which among other things had passed a law banning the Russian language spoken by most people in eastern and southern Ukraine. A hastily called fake “election” in which the two parties which had won 60 percent of the vote in the overthrown parliament were not allowed on the ballot had “elected” Poroshenko as “President”, and he had promptly launched an assault on the local governments in eastern Ukraine. The local people in Donetsk and Luhansk provinces had formed self-defence militias to protect their mayors and local governments from arrest and/or murder by fascist militias from western Ukraine. The local government in Crimea held a referendum to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which passed by over 96 percent. In April around 100 people protesting the coup in Odessa were burned alive and/or shot in a massacre led by fascist militias thugs. In May, protected by hastily formed local militias, the provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk held similar referendums to succeed from Ukraine which also passed by over 90 percent.
The United States CIA took over the top two floors of the Ukrainian SBU Intelligence agency and assumed control of the SBU and the developing civil war. Near the end of June CIA Director John Brenner made a secret visit to Ukraine over a weekend.
At the end of June, Poroshenko announced an all-out WW II style assault on Donetsk and Luhansk provinces with tanks, heavy assault rockets, artillery, mobile guns, helicopters, and SU25 ground assault aircraft. By mid July this assault was in full swing and Donetsk and Luhansk were being bombed and shelled daily by the Ukrainian Air Force. The militias defending Donetsk and Luhansk obtained shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles from Russia to shoot down the SU25 bombers attacking their cities and defensive positions. These type of short range missiles have a maximum altitude of around 3000 metres, far below commercial jets at 10,000 metres, but sufficient to shoot down the SU25’s and helicopter gunships attacking them near the ground.
On July 17th, 2014, in the midst of this violent offensive against the cities and provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk the air traffic controllers in Kiev re-directed Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 200 kilometres north from its usual route over the Sea of Azov and ordered it to overfly the centre of the war zone in eastern Ukraine. No reasonable explanation for this change of route has been provided by Ukraine. The Kiev Air Traffic Control tapes were seized by the Ukrainian SBU less than an hour after the shootdown and have never been seen since. Where are they? The JIT didn’t ask that question.
The United States CIA had a hate on against Malaysia because they had hosted an International War Crimes Tribunal which had indicted George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and various other top American officials for invading Iraq (War of Aggression) and the many atrocities and crimes committed during the war. Although Malaysian Airlines had one of the best safety records in the business, in 2014 they lost three airliners in mysterious circumstances. CIA Payback?
Over several days prior to July 17th, as shown on Russian and European satellite photos, Ukraine had moved at least half a dozen BUK missile launchers into the area Flight MH17 was now directed to fly over. The militias of Donetsk and Luhansk had no aircraft. What was the reason for moving the BUK launchers into this area? After July 17th they were removed, so apparently it wasn’t any concern about the Russian Air Force coming to the defence of Donetsk and Luhansk. The JIT didn’t ask that question.
There is a precedent of a Ukrainian missile shooting down a civilian airliner and then denying it. On October 4, 2001, a Ukrainian missile battery in Crimea shot down a Siberia Airlines TU-154 en route from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk over the Black Sea, killing all aboard. Ukraine denied having shot down Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 for weeks, but eventually admitted to it, claiming it was a training accident, and paid $15 million to the victims families. The JIT report didn’t mention that.
Kiev has never provided its radar tapes to the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), claiming none of its radars, either military or civilian air traffic control, were working in eastern Ukraine that day as they were all shut down for maintenance. Given that they had supposedly moved the BUK launchers into the area because they were worried about the Russian Air Force coming to the defence of Donetsk and Luhansk, it is hard to believe that they really had all their radars turned off in a war zone where their own planes were engaged in bombing. But, lets take them at their word. Why, if all their Air Traffic Control radars were turned off, making it impossible for their air traffic controllers to track the planes they were supposed to be guiding, would they re-route Flight MH17 into that area? The JIT didn’t ask that question.
Although the Ukrainian radars, both military and civilian, were supposedly all turned off for maintenance at the same time, the Russian radar was working. The civilian Air Traffic Control was watching MH17 which was just entering it’s range and saw it descend and disappear. This radar would have seen a BUK missile if launched from the east, but not from the west, which was out of its range. It did not see any missile. The more powerful Russian military radar was also monitoring traffic in the war zone as Ukrainian SU25s were actively bombing Donetsk and Luhansk at the time just over the border. It did not see any BUK missile fired from either direction, but did see a Ukrainian SU25 following MH17 about 5 kilometres behind it, which is well within the launch range of the R60 air-to-air missiles and Israeli Python missiles carried by some SU25s. The Russians supplied this radar data to the JIT, but the JIT report didn’t mention it or ask the obvious question: what was a ground attack aircraft doing up at 10,000 metres following a civilian airliner immediately before it broke up and plunged to the ground?
The US had an Aegis class Cruiser in the Black Sea at the time. This type of warship specializes in long-range air defence and radar detection. They also had a spy satellite overhead at the time, and would normally have at least one electronic surveillance spy plane watching a war zone they were involved in. Secretary of State John Kerry immediately claimed they had all the data and watched the entire shootdown. But . . . two years after MH17 was shot down they have not provided any of their radar, electronic evesdropping, or satellite data to the JIT. Why not? The JIT report didn’t ask that question.
Following the shootdown, the Donetsk self-defence militias operating in the area started searching for the Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder. Within a couple of days they had recovered both, and turned them over to a team from Malaysian Airlines who came to Donetsk to recover them. Malaysia then turned them over to the Dutch JIT, who in turn handed them over to the British to recover the data. The British stated they were in good shape and had not been tampered with and that all data was recovered. To this day it has not been made public, and the JIT report does not say what was on either recorder. Why not? Why is this secret?
After the shootdown, the Dutch set up a Joint investigation Team with Australia, Belguim, and Ukraine, the chief suspect, but Malaysia was not allowed to participate. Each member, including Ukraine, has the right under a secret agreement to veto the release of any information deemed unfavourable to its interests. It is completely unprecedented for a so-called “investigation” to give the chief suspect the “right” to prevent the release of any information implicating them. That alone completely disqualifies any “findings” of this “investigation”. Members of the Dutch parliament attempted to get the terms of the JIT Agreement released, but it was deemed a “State Secret” by the Dutch government and has never been released.
The Ukrainian army repeatedly shelled the area of the crash for the following month, preventing the JIT investigators from accessing it and destroying evidence. The JIT report makes no mention of this obstruction by Kiev.
The makers of the BUK missile went to great lengths to set up a similar aircraft cockpit on a scaffold and exploded a BUK missile in the exact position and angle the Dutch JIT claimed the missile would have approached from based on the shrapnel pattern. They invited the press and the JIT to observe the test, but the JIT refused to attend or review the results and see if the shrapnel from a BUK matched the damage on the reconstructed sections of MH17’s fuselage. Why did the JIT refuse to send an observer? Are they trying to determine whether it was a BUK, or do they not want to know?
The cockpit area of MH17 appears to have been hit with heavy machine gun fire from a 30mm cannon. The Russian air force set up a test using a SU25 to strafe an old aircraft cockpit to compare the damage and entry/exit holes of the SU25 cannon to those found on MH17. The JIT declined to send an observer. Why? Are they actually trying to determine what happened to MH17, or are they actually trying to cover it up?
The JIT stated that the missile that detonated about two metres from the cockpit of MH17 weighed about 33 kg, but a BUK missile warhead weighs over twice as much: 75 kg. On the other hand, the warhead of an R60 or Israeli Python air-to-air missile carried by an SU25 weighs around 30 kg. Why does the JIT report not comment on this discrepancy?
When a BUK missile is launched it is extremely noisy and leaves a very visible white smoke trail from it’s solid fuel exhaust which is visible for up to 15 miles, yet no one saw or photographed it. On the other hand, numerous witnesses claim to have seen a SU25 following the MH17 down before heading west toward Ukraine. Why does the JIT report make no mention of this?
And so forth. I’ll wrap this up before it get into book length, although there is plenty more to say. It is patently obvious the JIT “report” is little more than a blatant fraud designed to cover up a deliberate crime committed by Ukraine and with the assistance of the CIA. The purpose of the crime was to defame the Self-defence militias of Donetsk and Luhansk by accusing them of being “terrorists” which kicks in all kinds of sanctions and laws in various countries making it illegal for anyone to support them, to get back at Malaysia for hosting the International War Crimes Tribunal that indicted the Bush administration for invading Iraq, and to cover up the Israeli invasion of Gaza and attendant massacre of thousands of people which not co-incidentally started just a few hours after the MH17 shootdown grabbed the headlines. A standard multi-purpose False Flag, the CIA’s speciality.
I have had to adjust to the fact that MH17 will never be investigated. Now I just look forwards to the destruction of the US empire.
Pater AU – it just was. This is all the investigation we need. One big cover up that points exactly to whom the perpetrator is.Great article!
It will be investigated. Russia has all the facts the UE has been US ordered never to even look at.
Thank you, Terry.
It is said that crimes are most often revealed and solved by the efforts of the criminals and their co-conspirators to cover them up.
This would certainly seem to be the case in this instance!
Many thanks to “Terry” for this excellent summary of the obvious flaws in a comprehensively flawed investigation. Those flaws, so deliberate and critical to protecting the truth, are what blows this case wide open.
Forward this to your western mainstream media and politicians and demand that every one of the very reasonable questions posed by it’s author are answered by those in our governments who are supporting the reports incompetent conclusions.
Answered comprehensively, to the extent that would be required in a coroners inquest.
Spread it far and wide.
Our children’s lives are as stake.
Make no mistake, this false flag is part of a conspiracy to build a case for war. A war in which our sons and daughters will certainly be put in harms way. A war which will very likely include the use of nuclear weapons. This view is not a theory. it is the result of wide reading of observers of past wars, of observing the actions of our current political leaders and of seeing a correlation between the two. And it is result of watching what actually happens and comparing it to how it is actually reported and how our politicians respond to the reality and the reported reality.
Shortly after the shoot down a video claiming to be pointing in the direction of the crash contained streams of what appeared to chaff, which is one of the countermeasures Russian Migs use against radar. This would indicate that the pilots trailing the Malaysian airline were at the very least aware of this probable missile launch. I am by no means an expert, but if memory still serves this was also mentioned in the video and or comment section. Perhaps the video can still be found in an archive or wayback by someone more computer savvy.
This lends itself to the question; why would the Ukrainian air force trail an airliner that they were planning to shoot down? Perhaps they were trying to entice the Russians to shoot it down. When that failed they used their own armaments.Thus the need to deploy the chaff. Remember during this period the Ukrainians were also performing bombing runs in the area flying in a similar formation with trailing Migs. For defense or was it to establish a routine to lure the Russians into their trap. Russia had also implicitly warned Ukraine to stop the bombings. Perhaps Ukraine also had direct intelligence that the Russians was about to take action
I know this is based in part on a dubious video, but the possibility that could be a part of the confluence of emerging evidence just might make it worth mention.
The whole “investigation” has started with the conclusion that Russia did it, and the “facts” were tailored as it went along. They can cry foul all they want, their actions speak for themselves.
Similar to the English coroner’s court finding that “Putin PROBABLY ordered the execution of Litvinenko”. Which court on this planet makes a finding of facts by using words “probably”, while interviewing unnamed witnesses to which defence attorneys have no access?
Same with the MH17. If they were sincere, they would start from the possibility that the plane being shot down over a conflict zone with 2 combatants, there is a 50-50 chance of either being guilty. Yet, somehow Ukraine instead of being a suspect in the investigation it ended up being a part of it from the start. This is such a glaring anomaly that is mind-boggling. This fact alone is enough to conclude with certainty that the whole “investigation” is a politically motivated sham.
By the way, John Kerry said shortly after the plane shooting that US has all the evidence, ie. satellite photos, that prove conclusively who did it and from where. Strange how two years later no such evidence has been made available to anyone.
Great summary. If anyone does not realise that it was the Ukrainians and the CIA that are responsible after reading this they are mentally deficient or hopelessly one-eyed, probably both.
This does not make any sense. Almaz-Antey themselves performed the test to demonstrate that an ‘old’ (ukrainian) Buk was used, not an ‘new’ (russian) one.
All the other crap has been long ruled out, even by the russians.
The only remaining question is if the plane was shot down from an ukrainian-controlled, or rebel-controlled area.
It is very likely that some idiots simply ‘borrowed’ a Buk without a controlling unit as an improvised air defense system, and tried a “lucky shot” on the first plane they spotted in the sky.
It is possible that the whole occurence was additionally promoted by US or israeli double agents and systematically planting of false information on the rebels. But this will be impossible to prove, so the russians did not even try to play this card.
MH17 is a propaganda war. Western media within hours swamped with Russia done it. Putins missile.
Russia had no cards to play in that one. They just had to ride it out. Their turn has come in Syria where they have exposed US as the backers of ISIS and AQ/al Nusra.
Anyone in the “west” with half a brain, in the first few weeks, would have realised it was the US “west” trying to cover up MH17, not Russia.
The thing is, there are an awful lot of people in the West who don’t have that essential half brain. They are, in fact, quite brainless. I would guess at a population made up of 98% brainless people and it’s this amorphous mass that makes up the audience the spin doctors target.
Very good, succinct response to the utter bullshit that is the Dutch Safety Board / Joint (smoked too many ???) Investigation Team.
Thanks Terry & thanks to the mod for putting it up. I had missed it as time doesn’t allow me to be over everything important . . . unfortunately.
that was a great ‘comment’ i thought at the time, really helpful to have everything laid out clearly on the table – i shall revisit this!
This makes a very plausible case that it was likely an Ukrainian MIG that shot it down
I saw that video when it came out & thought, of course, a MIG-29.
Glad you could give us all it so quickly.
Without a doubt, the elephant-in-the room ie the most common aircraft in the ukrainian airforce.
For me, there’s no doubt about it.
A MIG-29 fits the perpetrator profile perfectly.
Well written and informative. Excellent comment.
1st episode: “BUK” in Zugres (duration 5:08)
2nd episode: The Elderberry bush (duration 11:16)
3rd episode: MH17. About what was the BBC quiet? (duration 12:25)
4th episode: In times of war, does the law fall silent? (duration 19:42)
5th episode: “It was a MIG” (duration 37:18)
Only 1% of Russians believe their country was complicit in MH17 disaster
“According to a poll conducted by Russian state-owned public opinion research center VTSIOM by telephone in early October, only one in a hundred respondents believe that Russian special services had been behind the Malaysian Airlines disaster that killed 298 people. Only four percent think that one of the militias of the self-proclaimed Donetsk or Lugansk republics was to blame.
Half of Russians said they believe the missile attack on the passenger plane was carried out by the Ukrainian military, while 14 percent pointed a finger at western special services, and 8 percent say a terrorist group not involved in the conflict in southeast Ukraine was probably responsible. Seven percent said they had an alternate idea about what happened, and 16 percent said they could not answer the question.”
I read about the Ukrainians voting against Russia at the UN today. Apart from being shocked at what bad company the Security Council keeps, their presence on the MH17 investigation and their ‘right of veto’ not to mention everything else they do, would make any intelligent person reach the same conclusion. And the Dutch are not much better.
Would you say the percentages in the ‘West’ are reversed?
I didn’t take a poll, and vot tak may have information on your question that I lack, but here’s my spiritual sense of what’s been at work in this farce of “justice”:
As far as their Illumin-naughty naughty “massas”
Are concerned, the masses can kiss their asses.
And by and large, the masses mostly consent, and agree,
Dissension being only about seven to maybe, ninety-three.
Justice sought by Malaysia ‘gainst Bush and Blair?
“Blow three of their passenger liners out of the air!”
Decreed the filthy Empire secret service swine,
The Child buggering, innocence murdering kind.
Russians? They have a lot more real world experience,
At defeating such sick and sordid Satanic impudence.
Westerners? They’ll see no truth, (blind sad sack victims)
With their MSM-blinded heads still firmly up their rectums.
So that’s what became of the MH-17 pseudo investigation.
The Dutch bent over for Nazis again, betraying God and Nation.
Oh yes, they cowardly sacrificed their own people to cremation
And disgusted the conscious world, in their slavish subjugation.
Why is justice so god-damned blind, letting evil go unpunished?
Because the Good ain’t nearly good enough, if continually diminished.
And it’ll never, ever see the light of day, in another two million years,
‘Til it extracts itself from that shitty place, and conquers its own fears.
But what i find strange is how we people forget things so fast. For instance all the other things that happend right after or short after the incident. To name but a few:
1. What ever happend to that air-traffic controller named “Carlos” who was working in the tower in Kiev on that day. Right after the loss of the plane on radar, he began to flood twitter about the ukrainian SBU being in the tower and confiscating all cell phones, and he said that the SBU was behind the shoot down.
2. What about that fake radio conversation that the ukrainian released after the shoot down in which they declared it was proof between some rebel commanders and some russian speaking officer about the plane they just shot down. This was so Obvious fake and even it was published on youtube on the 16th of July. One day before MH-17 was shot down. How stupid can you get.
But everybody forgot about this one too and nobody mentions it anymore.
3. Then we have the departure time of MH-17 from Amsterdam. Why was there a two hour delay.
What was the reason for this delay and why does this not come up in the reports of JiT.
If anybody is familiar with aviation procedures, you know that every plane is put into a flight-window.
This is for safety procedures and that flights have a minimal of space and time between them. Why was flight MH-17 delayed for two hours, untill the next window was availible.
4. And then there’s the flight path diviation. Somebody on Flightradar.com showed a day after the crash that the last 10 flights of MH-17 where perfect and the same. Then on the 17th of July the flight path was altered…….i remember this because i saw and read the reports that day and the different flightpaths. But now, i can’t find it anymore and all i can find is sites that say that this was not true and that flight MH-17 never deviated from its flightpath.
But wasn’t this one of the main questions raised just after the incident, why flight control in Kiev told the aircraft to change course and cruising altitude?
5. And then there’s the disinformation warfare. Media outlets like the BBC, CNN, Fox and other staions around the world all said the same thing and pointed there finger at the seperatists of the DPR and LPR. Wow what a coincedance….and they all showed that short film where a rebel was holding a stuffed animal or doll found at the crash site. But they didn’t show the whole film where he paid his respects to the lives lost at the crash site. But the let the people beleave that this was a ruthless person with no respect for the deaths and personal belongings of those people.
Why was this not included in the JiT report. Why was the whole story given a specific spin to it, so that the truth would be more difficult to find out.
And these are just a small number of questions or things that happend and still have no answers to or where not included in the JiT report. Unbeleaveble……i have no more words….
Sorry for my bad english, its been a while…..but maybe i’m wrong and all these things are not important. The main thing remains is that MH-17 will allso go in the history books as the same as JFK or 9/11 or MH-370 or the honderd other dissaters that will never be truely known. So sad……
I think Zahkarova did comment on one of the radio-phone intercepts that it had been analysed to be a composite from various sources that could not be verified is probable….plus she was not comp!industry on the 150000 SBI provided intercepts……..but I wonder what happened at Dutch Ambassador meeting when he was called in , in Moscow for representations to be made to him.
Memory Hole –
A memory hole is any mechanism for the alteration or disappearance of inconvenient or embarrassing documents, photographs, transcripts, or other records, such as from a website or other archive, particularly as part of an attempt to give the impression that something never happened. The concept was first popularized by George Orwell’s dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, where the Party’s Ministry of Truth systematically re-created all potential historical documents, in effect, re-writing all of history to match the often-changing state propaganda. These changes were complete.
All good points, Gibson, and there are many more.
For instance, why was the International Civil Aviation Organization not involved in the investigation?
Why was Flight MH-17 ordered to descend a thousand metres immediately before it was shot down? To bring it better into the firing range of an Israei Python air-to-air missile, which specifically targets the cockpit of large aircraft, and which is carried by some Ukrainian SU-25s?
The Russians are fully aware that an SU-25 is not the ideal aircraft for this task, being designed as a low altitude ground attack aircraft, as are the Ukrainians. Probably the Ukrainian BUKs were in place as a back-up in case the SU-25 failed to shoot down MH-17. However, a SU-25 was the ideal aircraft from the perspective of someone wanting to cover their tracks because they were operating in the area at the time, and provided a “deniability” factor due to the improbability of their use to shoot down a fast moving airliner at 10,000 metres.
A MIG-29 or SU-27 air superiority fighter, on the other hand, would get picked up by Russian military radar and flagged as unusual since the Luhansk and Donetsk self-defence militias had no aircraft and there was no air combat going on. Ukraine would have a much harder time denying a MIG-29 or SU-27 had been involved had they chosen to use one for the purpose, while the SU-25 was unusual in the war zone only in it’s altitude.
The Russians are fully aware of the SU-25’s capabilities and limitations, since they manufacture and fly hundreds of them. The fact they suggested the mystery aircraft following MH-17 was a SU-25 (it had it’s identifying transponder turned off) is probably based on their knowledge of what aircraft took off from all the possible air bases in Ukraine that day, and whether any MIG-29 or SU-27s were airborne at the time in the eastern Ukraine or not. Obviously none were, or they might have suggested a MIG-29 or SU-27 was the mystery aircraft.
Several military aviation websites and Wikipedia had their entries on the SU-25 altered immediately after the Russian military press conference showing their radar data and the plane tracking MH-17 to claim the maximum ceiling for a SU-25 was 7,000 metres where before it had been listed at 10,000 metres. The western media and the US State Department then claimed an SU-25 was unable to reach 10,000 metres. In reality, as the Russian Air Force demonstrated, it can exceed 10,000 metres as long as the pilot has an oxygen mask as the cockpit is unpressurized.
However, as MH-17 was ordered by Kiev Flight Controllers to descend 1000 metres immediately before being shot down, it only needed to get up to about 7 or 8,000 metres to fire the R-60 or Python missile, and then finish off the crippled airliner with it’s 30mm cannon as it descended. Most likely the pilots were already dead from shrapnel from a Python missile, given that it targeted the cockpit instead of homing in on the heat from an engine or targeting the centre of mass like an R060 would do.
The two tests by Almaz-Antey exploding a BUK warhead showed that the pattern of shrapnel on the cockpit of MH-17, IF it came from a BUK at all, would indicate that the BUK had to be fired from the south, not the east, placing the launch position in the Ukrainian army held territory where they did indeed have some BUK launchers. However, the fact that some MH-17 cockpit pieces had 30mm cannon holes with bullets coming from both sides rules out those holes being made by a missile, as a single explosion point can’t product shrapnel coming from two directions. Only an aircraft shooting at the crippled plane as it descended could hit if from both sides. Probably the aim was to make sure both the pilot and co-pilot were dead and couldn’t radio any information as to what had happened before the aircraft hit the ground.
So, although the Ukrainian army did have half a dozen BUK launchers under Flight MH-17’s flight path, it appears unlikely any of them were actually used as the SU-25 did the job. That explains why none of the many eyewitnesses reported seeing a BUK smoke trail.
To elaborate a bit more on the purpose of the shootdown, which had many purposes, the key one was to get the Luhansk and Donetsk self-defence militias labelled as “Terrorists” by claiming they had deliberately shot down a civilian airliner. Many countries, and the UN, for that matter, have laws against supporting “Terrorists” who are recognized as such by either the UN or the laws of the country in question. That would have the effect of making it illegal to advocate for or support the Luhansk and Donetsk self-defence militias in all NATO countries, for starters, and most other countries under the US thumb, which is pretty much everybody except Russia and China.
The revenge on Malaysia for hosting the War Crimes Tribunal that indicted the Bush/Cheney gang and the cover for the Israeli invasion and mass murder in Gaza launched later the same day were just icing on the cake.
Just as in the World Trade Centre destruction in 2001, where the insiders contrived to make a lot of money by over-insuring the WTC buildings a month before they were blown up, and by shorting United Airlines stock the day before, there are lots of traces that show the advance planning. One of the ones you mentioned is the faked “intercepted rebel cell phone conversations” video that was inadvertently posted to the internet by the SBU with a creation date 9 hours before MH-17 was shot down. Oops.
“MH-17 cockpit pieces had 30mm cannon holes with bullets coming from both sides”
This was kicked off by a Japanese civil airline pilot after the first cockpit panel was photographed and was taken up as gospel.
The photos of the remainder of the cockpit being lifted shows that is not the case.
What does seem to be solid at the moment, there was one or more Ukraine aircraft in very close vicinity or with MH17, Ukraine had BUK systems with live radar within range and that MH17 was hit by a large missile.
To get reliable information about the Su-25’s capabilities we have to look for sources older than 7/17/14, the date MH17 was shot down
I found a video of a Wings program about the Su-25. The episode aired on the Discovery Channel sometime in the mid 1990s. It was posted to Youtube on 2/20/13. The video includes comments by American aviation writer Jeffrey Ethell who had hands-on experience with the Su-25. The portions of the video with Jeffrey Ethell were filmed before 6/6/1997, the date when he died while piloting a restored P-38 Lightning in an air show.
Claims that the Su-25 can’t exceed 7,000 meters altitude have been widely debunked, but not claims that the Su-25 is too slow to be effective against a Boeing 777. Ethell said around 9:30~10:30 in the video that when stripped of external armaments the Su-25 will go supersonic. It is hard to imagine that the weight and drag of a few small air to air missiles will put a Su-25 at a significant speed disadvantage relative to a Boeing 777 flying at mach 0.75. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_rc-dW4z6Q
By writing the above I’m not saying that the murder weapon was a Su-25 and not a MiG 29 or some other aircraft. It is safe to conclude from the hole pattern in the skin of MH17 and from the lack of credible witnesses that the murder weapon was not a Buk missile.
As distasteful as it is, one should think like a godless state actor desiring to shoot down MH17 as a false flag. You have several objectives for the attack, including certainty that MH17 will be shot down, no survivors, no credible witnesses and full exploitation of the known limitations of the enemy’s methods and technologies for monitoring events in eastern Ukraine. The ideal is to strike at high altitude above cloud cover where the attack will not be seen from the ground and where the initial sounds of the attack and the disintegration of the aircraft will not reach the ground for about half a minute. These criteria rule out attack by means of launching a Buk missile. You will have Buk sightings in “militia controlled territory” to create a false story that implicates the militia and Russia. Without a Buk or some other ground to air system with sufficient range you can’t pin the blame on the militia and Russia.
As for the DSB’s and JIT’s roles in the “investigations”, they are tools of information warfare striving to inflict as much pain as possible on the militia and especially on Russia for a long as possible. I rarely reply to their lies because doing so allows them to frame the discussion. So much time and talent have been diverted into useless debates about unverifiable “evidence” provided by the SBU and other “evidence” likely seeded by CIA media stooges like Jeroen Akkermans who admitted that he removed alleged Buk warhead fragments from MH17’s debris.
Malaysia remains a mystery. If they had a clue – and after MH370 they certainly should have doubted the goodness of western intentions – then they would have put the black boxes in diplomatic pouches, return them to Malaysian soil and remained in absolute physical control of them. Plus they would have had no desire to join the JIT. They cry for justice for their victims, and yet everything they’ve done has served to delay and deny justice.
Russia is the other mystery. It is crystal clear that any assistance Russia offers the official “investigations” is either ignored or used against them. No exceptions. And yet Russia persists. Sometimes I just don’t “get” the Russian mind.
“1. What ever happend to that air-traffic controller named “Carlos” who was working in the tower in Kiev on that day. Right after the loss of the plane on radar, he began to flood twitter about the ukrainian SBU being in the tower and confiscating all cell phones, and he said that the SBU was behind the shoot down.”
That guy’s twitter account was a few years old and had been very active since the start of Maidan. I doubt he was an air traffic controller, but must have been someone who obviously had some kind of direct connection with the UKR military at the Air Traffic Control in Kiev’s airport because his information was generally fresh and accurate. He was describing what had happened minutes after the plane disappeared from radar. He mentioned there were one or two military planes by the MH17. Said some ppl came and confiscated a bunch of records and recordings. Within a few hours his twitter account had been erased and he was never heard from again.l
“The US had an Aegis class Cruiser in the Black Sea at the time. This type of warship specializes in long-range air defence and radar detection”.
Although it has a documented tendency to mistake an Airbus, climbing to cruise altitude on its scheduled course at the scheduled time, for an F-14 Tomcat descending to launch an attack.
We also know that it is very good at shooting down such an Airbus.
I would guess from what I know as absolutely true: that crack US pilots dressed in Ukraine military uniforms piloted the two Ukraine jets that directed the Buk shotdown passenger MH17 plane to it’s final resting place in a war field to remain untouched for months, were both true blue Americans. The likely hood that whoever was cool enough to target that plane 33,000 ft up would also have been an American expert wearing an Ukrainian military uniform. As the ultimate cool dude, he would have excited and proud to bring it down.
It would not be that hard to find names and home addresses.But, not recommended.
Why, if all their Air Traffic Control radars were turned off, making it impossible for their air traffic controllers to track the planes they were supposed to be guiding, would they re-route Flight MH17 into that area? The JIT didn’t ask that question.
I have little doubt that MH17 is a major false flag, but I do recall that the July 17, 2014 Dutch Safety Board “Preliminary report Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17” addresses the rerouting explicitly on p.5:
“According to ATC data, at 12.53 hrs the aircraft was flying within the Dnipropetrovs’k FIR, Control Sector 2, at FL330, controlled by Dnipro Control. At that time, Dnipro Control asked whether MH17 was able to climb to FL350 in accordance with the flight plan of MH17 and also to clear a potential separation conflict with other traffic in the area, another Boeing 777 flying at FL330 and approaching from behind. The crew replied they were unable to comply and requested to maintain at FL330. This was agreed by Dnipro Control. As an alternative to solve the separation conflict, the
other traffic climbed to FL350. According to ATC data, at 13.00 hrs the crew of flight MH17 requested to divert the track 20 NM to the left, due to weather. This also was agreed by Dnipro Control, after which the crew requested whether FL340 was available. Dnipro control informed MH17 that FL340 was not available at that moment and instructed the flight to maintain FL330 for a while. At 13.07 hrs the flight was transferred to Dnipropetrovs’k CTA 4, also with call sign Dnipro Control.
At 13.19:53 hrs, radar data showed that the aircraft was 3.6 NM north of centreline of airway L980 having deviated left of track, when Dnipro Control directed the crew to alter their route directly to waypoint RND due to other traffic. The crew acknowledged at 13.19:56 hrs. At 13.20:00 hrs, Dnipro Control transmitted an onward ATC clearance to proceed direct to TIKNA after RND, no acknowledgement was received.”
Page 14 of that same report exposes the current lie that Ukraine had neither military nor civilian data because the dog ate its homework:
“2.5 Air Traffic Control
2 . 5.1 ATC surveillance data
For this investigation ATC surveillance data was obtained from both Ukraine (UkSATSE) and the Russian Federation. The data obtained was the following:
Primary surveillance radar recorded by the Russian surveillance aids
Secondary surveillance radar (SSR / Mode S) 6
Automatic Dependant Surveillance – Broadcast (ADS-B) 7 ground based reception.
Preliminary information shows that Ukrainian and Russian ATC surveillance radar identified flight MH17 as a B777-200 at FL330. Analyses of recorded ATC surveillance data is ongoing.”
Regarding cannon fire or missile in the downing of MH17, most witnesses have described two explosions. None have described hearing cannon fire that I am aware of.
I have thought that one of the explosions may have been a sonic boom, and the other the missile exploding?
One of the best most detailed analysis ive ever read.!! .In fact it goes where most alt media wont point out , or remind of us, which is critical .. “to cover up the Israeli invasion of Gaza and attendant massacre of thousands of people which not co-incidentally started just a few hours after the MH17 shoot down grabbed the headlines.” THAT my friends is the most critical piece of evidence. The fact that “the chosen ones” were blessed once again with amazing timing. Thanks to all the posters here for taking the time to write such brilliant analysis !!
MH17 was set up by the US Pentagon using Zionist Israeli help to plot the death flight and crack US pilots to fly the two military jets that supported the crippled passenger jet filled with it’s whole dead cadavers until one of the supporting jets shot holes in the pilot’s metal reinforced cabin when the passenger plane was over the straw roofed houses in the specified small sleepy village near the war field the jet was dropped to rot in for weeks. A note: the minute the holes in the pilot cabin released the pressure holding the plastic walls of the plane intact, the whole human dead bodies of the newly dead passengers dropped through the straw roofs below them into sleeping homes or onto cold garden patches where a set of videos caught them landing. The US crack pilots were dressed in Ukrainian uniforms to hide their identity. They both completed their complex mission and flew away.
Included in the passenger bodies were the AIDs cadavers in the hold with the baggage intended for the AIDs conference the passenger jet was heading for when it left Netherlands Schipol. It was always planned the case for a foreign massacre of MH 17 would become obvious but never to be solved so the intent of the propaganda massacre would become glaringly clear, as well as who did it. USA and Obama are very proud of it. The Dutch ordered by the US Pentagon to be the only country to manage the MH 17 “investigation” of course mangled it completely as was expected and ordered.
Obviously no-one ever attempts to write about the facts.
USA has been setting up a fake reason for the globe in the form of Europe in the 21st century to genocidally erase the Russian population. The reason the US supported and planned theThird Reich WW11 but lost to Russia in the 20th century.. EU decisions to support and obey US global genocidal plans are suicidal, yet the body of EU Government in Brussels continues to approve it’s own demise.
This was an USA crime enacted with the indispensible US bought help of Ukraine, the deliberate deafness and blindlessness of Ban KI Moon’s United Nations. The careful mismanagement of the earlier USA Gulf of Mexico BP crude oil eruption from an under ocean oil cavern comes to mind. President Obama openly gave unlimited powers to BP to hide that spill using the EU banned poisonous oil binder, Corexit. Corextis is humanly poisonous. So much so Europe bans it’s use. Corexit kills ocean life, poisons it’s waters, and humans. Obama ordered British Petroleum to use as much Corexit they felt was needed to hide the long lasting eruption of the under ocean heavy crude oil. Corexit binds to the oil and pulls it ti the floor of the oceans until tidal energies move the contained oil on to other countries. It flooded the Netherlands, German and other canals in and near the North Sea areas long ago. One wonders if the salted sour Herring one buys in NL supermarkets are Corexit poisoned. Yet never has the powerful, beautifully paid, EU leaders in Brussels checked this out! Why not? Have they any real interest in European Union civilians? Seems doubtful.
Great summary, thx.
– To add a interesting point to that “multi-purpose False Flag”, please focus your attention on the front situation at that time! The Kiev Junta tried to strengthen a corridor between the Luhansk and Donetsk enclaves, for preventing a imminent handshake between those two militias. Should MH17 end shortly before the Russian border? Was it therefore it was derived by DNIPRO AC exactly along that corridor?
Moreover, the Ukrainian military forces in the Sector D (towards the Russian border East of the independent two new Republics) were on the verge to be cut off from their main force. An event where a civilian airliner would crash exactly into that region would have allowed Kiev to deploy “help” and international “investigators” THERE – so saving their encircled brigades (79th, 24th, 72th, AZOV- & SHAKHTYORSK) from anihilation.
That plan failed as MH17 *turned* westwards after having been shot down. Most possibly by Georgian/Israeli Su-25 Scorpions, coming from the NATO exercise BREEZE-2014 in the Black Sea, refueling in Kolomoisky’s Dnjepropetrovsk! Taken from their own info (at least) one EA-18G Growler and (at least) one Boeing E3 (AWACS) were present during the “western” war game!
The US built and owned NATO powers that interfere in solving the downing of MH17 are themselves involved in that criminal tragedy themselves. Crack US airmen held the damaged plane full of dead whole bodies by flying the two Ukrainian jets that held the plane aloft until the arrived at the field of war to drop that plane in.
The US airmen were dressed in Ukrainian uniforms.