Putin holds a meeting with permanent members of the Security Council in Moscow
Short comments, as they can be generated: Not formal transcript:
Putin: The purpose of today’s Security Council meeting is to determine steps on Donbass, bearing in mind the appeal of the DPR and the LPR to recognize their sovereignty
Putin: There is a threat that Kiev will begin retaking Crimea, since they do not recognize its entry into the Russian Federation and NATO will join these events
Donbass Negotiations Have Hit ‘Rock Bottom’ – Russian Security Council
The dep. head of Russia’s presidential admin told President Putin that Ukraine and its Western allies don’t need the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk.
Dmitry Kozak added that the Normandy Format process and Minsk agreements have had “zero” results – despite last minute negotiations.
Kozak added they want changes to the 2015 format, that contradict the previous agreement. “They don’t want to bring Donbass back to Ukraine.”
US NATO/Ukraine position “has changed” – Macron to Putin
President Putin spoke to French counterpart Emmanuel Macron until 2am yesterday, who revealed there had been changes in the American position over Ukraine’s NATO admission – but apparently wouldn’t reveal what the changes were.
President Biden had told Putin that a moratorium was possible on Ukraine’s accession to NATO, even though Putin noted this was not a concession.
FM Sergey Lavrov added that Russia will seek an answer from the West to the main question about the non-expansion of NATO to the east at the Russian Security Council meeting.
Russian Defense Chief Shoigu: Almost 60K Ukrainian military personnel concentrated near the borders of the Republics of Lugansk & Donetsk
Medvedev: “Donbass a bargaining chip”
The Deputy Chairman of the Security Council has said Kiev doesn’t need Donbass or the implementation of the Minsk agreements, it could prevent President Zelensky’s re-election.
Russian Security Council recommends recognizing separatist republics of DPR and LPR
Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev recommended Russia recognize the republics of Donetsk and Lugansk after their leaders appealed directly to President Putin earlier Monday.
The State Duma confirmed it backs this decision over security concerns – stating it believes Kiev is “freezing the process”
1.2 million residents of Donbass have applied for Russian citizenship – Speaker of State Duma
President Putin to make decision on recognition of Donbass Republics later on Monday
Russia’s hopeless inability to be concise. This is all they should say … ‘we refuse to meet with any U.S. official as long as they are falsely accusing us of staging an invasion of Ukraine’
End of press conference.
To do otherwise gives credibility to Bidens (note plural) dumpster fire. As long as U.S. troops and missiles are not in Ukraine then we don’t actually have any skin in the game and that is why we will prolong this as long as we can. We have no interest in solving anything.
Being objective with your comment, I can only tell you emphatically that Russia has nothing to discuss with the United States regarding Ukraine and Donbass. This is an issue between Europeans and must be resolved between them.
I agree with you. Since soviet times, Russians dont know how to deal and talk with western world.
You mean the ‘west’ cultured language of ‘cheat, lie and steal’!
Spot on buck! The Russians don’t speak that idiocy of children.
The meeting was video-ed for Russian viewers.
You can be pretty sure they are able to follow the messaging and the nuances involved.
Actually, a bit surprised.
Should Russia recognize the LDNR “as is” now, it would be a very, very anti-conflict move. Burning up such a quantity of pieces on the board “only” to avoid bloodshed would be unprecedented.
Executed now, it would be a tactical victory for the UKUS. It would also mean Russia totally giving up on (the rest of) Ukraine as a viable entity.
Hard to make an opinion what it would mean strategically. Avoiding conflict will definitely be worth it for the people of LDNR. But will it be worth it for Russia – so they go for it? Hard to say.
“Executed now, it would be a tactical victory for the UKUS. It would also mean Russia totally giving up on (the rest of) Ukraine as a viable entity.”
Russia never needed the Ukraine, except maybe Crimea. This was a forced move to avoid the humaniatrian catastrophy that US fermented.
I did not say Russia “needed” Ukraine.
But it tried, for a very, very long time, to allow/support Ukraine as a viable entity doing their utmost to not support the “anti-russia” national identity being promoted by some in Ukraine. Russia recognizing DLNR now, prior to any chance for a major offensive by the Ukrainian army, it would give up on that notion. Effectively “giving up” on the rest of Ukraine even being sane/viable/etc.
It would also be an equivalent of saying to all “Russians” (feel-definition, not exact) that they better move to Russian Federation sooner rather than later. Before they will be eliminated by the Kiev rulers as they will never be allowed to live safely or peacefully and Russia will NOT come to save them either. Etc. etc.
On the other hand, this will also effectively resolve the conflict. Dashing any hopes for Kiev and its radicals mainly, to “retake” LDNR.
Exactly. Furthermore, it’s an OPEN display that it’s the US that will drive the economic hardship that Europe will face when the NG gets turned off: Europe to pay dearly for NG from the US. THE game-changer in the Grand Chessboard was the linkage of Russia and China. China’s economic force will be able to absorb economic disturbances to Russia’s NG disruptions: it’s been moving that way. Furthermore, their trade coming outside of the US-controlled (SWIFT + USD) will further put downward pressure on the US’s dominance*.
Quite some time ago I speculated that Russia essentially held all the cards to tipping the US off its throne, that it could do so via energy trade. Russia presents a sizable-enough portion of the energy trade that it could start pushing other energy producers to trade outside the USD (USD increasingly being seen as having less and less value).
ALL WARS ARE ABOUT RESOURCES. Link actions to resources and you’ll understand the power plays.
Why would the Russian recognition of the Donbass Republics constitute a victory for the US/UK? Perhaps you consider this a defeat because this ends any chance that the Donbass would return to Ukraine?
Surely you realize the people of Donbass have absolutely no desire to be a part of Ukraine? The Minsk accords are a dead letter and will have zero chance of ever being implemented by Ukraine; haven’t the last 8 years of US/Ukrainian intransigence and violence made that perfectly clear?
This represents a diplomatic victory for Russia and it may be the only way to protect the people of the Donbass from further Ukrainian/US/NATO aggression. Recognition will allow Russian troops to be invited into the Republics. While I do think Washington is willing to fight Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood, directly facing and attacking Russian troops would still represent a qualitative change in this equation.
And Ukraine remains dependent upon Donbass coal. They will not be able to get that now through ethnic cleansing.
It is past time for recognition and I will be glad to see it. I pray this will prevent some massive war from starting.
It is a tactical victory as it would provide the formal casus beli for the US to force the EU to break relations with Russia. Which was the whole point of the shenanigans this winter as far as UKUS is concerned. Thus the UKUS would have achieved their objectives for this “battle”.
That it may be a pyrhic victory, and strategically may be the start of their defeat is a separate matter. Tactically they would have achieved what they set out to and Russia would not have (status quo would be fine with Russia ref Donbas).
On need to keep in mind that NO ONE in the Western nor in Russian circles of power cares about the people of the LDNR. Not enough o give up their strategic interests for them. This is Global politics and sentimentalism is not allowed.
If Russia decides to recognize, it will be because there was a viable general strategy found that is compatible with doing such. There will be a lot of bla bla in the media, but without a viable strategic path compatible with the action, it would not be taken. No matter what.
If this recognition acts to protect the people of Donbass, then I don’t see that as an unfortunate outcome. And I dispute that “no one in the Russian circles of power cares about the people of the LDNR”.
Recognition doesn’t change any of the Russia demands for no NATO or offensive missiles in Ukraine, Poland, and Romania, no US nuclear weapons in Europe, no more aggressive nuclear bomber flights on Russian borders of aggressive “freedom of navigation” exercises on Russian borders, etc etc. In other words, I don’t imagine that Russia is going to back down from the requirements listed in their draft treaties.
And I doubt the US will fail to bring its vassal leaders in line for their political aims regardless of whether Russia recognizes the Donbass Republics or not. When Germans are freezing in the dark because Russian gas is no longer available, perhaps that might lead to some real political change in Germany.
Recognition will allow Russian troops to be invited into the Republics.
I imagine how the western media will react if it happens. If we are already seen hysteria in the MSM, it will be hysteria on steroids, then.
Western media be damned. Do you think we hear any truth from them anyway?
User, there will be no nonrecognition of LDNR UDI or unilateral deceleration of independence.
Russia and China are leading a New World Order based on International Rule of Law and the UN.
If the Donbass were allowed UDI why not the Uighur’s or the Tibetans or Kurds or Basques or 100 other minorities dissatisfied with their central government?
Russia can defend her passport holders but not invade unless directly attacked, nor can she change the borders of The Ukraine.
The Ukraine must vote in free and fair elections to join the Russian Federation, and they will once the West stops interfering in her affairs.
You’re all right, except that this isn’t about Ukraine, Donbass or whatever.
This is about U.S role in world affairs and the multipolar world Russia and China are fighting for.
That’s why Russia will have to keep talking to the U.S for now.
Correct, however, Russia will ‘not’ have to keep talking to the US. Talking’s done unless US/NATO can enforce the implementation of the Minsk Agreement and draft a legally binding Agreement regarding Russia’s Security Concerns.
Shoigu doesn’t look as menacing in a suit. I would have liked to see him in full General fatigues flanked on either side with two Commanders in similar. We mean business, don’t f*ck with us!
These exhaustive explanations are addressed to the Russian and Ukrainian people. Not to the West.
The West may listen in if they wish, but Putin and his team are talking to their people. En long et en large…
I hope there will be some update about this recent Ukraine incrusion with two armoured carriers. Russia will have a big advantage in negotiations with all the documents and military vechicles recovered from that incident. It is already all over the news now.
One report i saw was it was some Azov goons,but nothing verified.
They confirmed that they have captured one Ukrainian soldier. It appears that there were six saboteurs. Five were killed.
Those who know how the West (and Turkey) conduct “missions of provocation” have been warning for many weeks that at some point an amateurish but dangerous provocation would be launced.
It would be launced by portion of the significant number of the “Volunteers” inside Ukraine – told they are be sent on a “special mission” which the regular forces and mercenaries would not consider.
Remember, these “Volunteers” (estimates range from low 100’s to high 100’s) are not professional soldiers – they are simply enthusiastic anti-Russian young men – amateurs – aka useful fools / cannon fodder (same type of mindset as those seen used as cannon fodder so often in various forms in Syria).
They must not be confused with professional Mercenaries / Contractors of which there are many from several different nations by several accounts (I wont take a guess on how many are on the US / UK / Turkish / Ukrainian payroll, nor how many are waiting to be used in support of the kids on the front lines and to prepare traps and easter eggs for advancing Russian / Pro-Russian forces, but it is likely substantial).
Those guys who took or were given the keys to some Ukrainian vehicles were clearly (as Ukraine stated) “not” regular Ukrainian service members. Ukraine is therefore not lying when they say they didnt send thier Soldiers on such a mission.
I expected to see more “irregulars” or “volunteers” sent on a Syria style provocation mission of which both the British (MI6 and SAS) and the Turks have great experience of putting together, so someone appears to be holding a tight leash on these amateurs.
If Russian Intel was involved in the interception (and appears it was) it is possible weapons of a liquid nature (that produces a gas upon release) was being transported on those vehicles and GPS navigation was spoofed to get the vehicles over the Russian border where they could be intercepted in a controlled and safe envirionment as opposed to enetering “rebel” terroritory where any chemical incident would become a “false flag” by Russia and the West could say to the World – “Look! Russian False Flag – we told you all!
President VVP’s body language is a study in stress.
This meeting defines a moment of critical inflection in the flow of History.
It shows on the faces of the ministers as a great weight.
I see it too. The president is not happy but he knows that some things must be done soon.
Absolute serious. Observe body language of members.
President’s right hand. Relates to his so called gunslinger walk.
I noticed this as well. In particular he was rather short with Naryshkin, but seemed to be generally unhappy with what is happening, or like his patience is wearing thin.
Shoigu and Lavrov seemed like their thoughts are clear to them and they appeared confident in their positions. Medvedev as well. Putin asks toward the end if there are any divergent viewpoints from the apparent consensus among the SC, there did not seem to be any.
So from Putin’s perspective, he has the duma, the LPR & DPR leaders, and most of his own ministers in consensus that he recognize the independence of LPR & DPR.
I think what might be the issue is that Putin knows that recognition of LPR & DPR will be a defacto scuttling of the Minsk agreements, which have been the basis for Putin’s diplomacy with Macron and Sholtz.
Compared to the security proposals put forward by Putin regarding formal, legally binding security guarantees between Russia and NATO, Ukraine is a relatively small-picture problem. Russia’s security in the face of an ever-expanding NATO is a big-picture problem. The Minsk agreements are not only a tool to resolve the Ukraine problem, but a tool to resolve the NATO/Russia security problem. To torpedo the Minsk agreements subtracts from the prospects of Russian diplomacy with France and Germany, who are the only countries who could theoretically pull Europe away from America’s control (with Russian energy and connectivity to the east of course). In this context, the recognition of LPR and DPR is shortsighted and self-defeating in the big-picture. If this is Putin’s rationale, he might see himself being boxed in to making a move that he considers irresponsible, which might explain his visibly uncomfortable appearance in this video.
I am just an amateur observer, not a geopolitical expert or a lawyer, so I can only speculate.
Lavrov, Shoigu and the other ministers understand this, and are privy to much more knowledge of this situation than I/we are, and they seem to support the recognition of LPR & DPR even given the considerations I mentioned above. I trust Putin to make the right move, and we will know soon enough what it will be.
Actually it was France and Germany that sabotaged the Minsk Agreements, as per Russia’s Foreign Ministry.
And were also called the centers of russophobia in Europe – again by MID.
In other words, the Minsk Agreements are gone and Russia will be fighting the combined West.
The “diplomacy talk” of the West is not backed by any action on the ground. The Minsk agreement is already a burning piece of paper falling. The Ukrainians themselves say that they don’t intend to implement it, ever.
So, do you really believe that Putin of all people is still holding on to that burning piece of paper? He knew how things will play out.
He just wanted to be proven wrong. Sadly, that did not happen.
A piece of paper to make the Europeans feel good about themselves that they’re doing something. Take it away and there’s nothing been done by them to resolve hostilities.
Regarding Putin’s body language . . . . it is that of a Great Statesman, disillusioned that it’s come to this.
Recognizing LDNR now would indeed mean Russia will accept Minsk is dead. As dead as Ukraine was proclaiming for the better for the last year.
It is funny how the western media keeps raising Munich 1938 here. The association is indeed valid. Though it is the Russsian-Chinese alliance who is deciding to “have none of it”. Appeasement is proving to just embolden the War Party so what is the point in it.
Now, Russia will not break off with the EU formally, the EU will be granted the privilege to shoot its own feet. As usual.
This meeting IS crucial.
It sets the stage for what comes next.
But I assure you that I see no special stress in anybody’s body language.
I suggest we stick to facts.
Totally agree. Putin’s right hand is relaxed, filled with energy, not stressed. He’s a recognized martial artist. He understands and manifests calm, focus and energy flows.
Amateurs suggesting otherwise should hold their comments because they are making ridiculous remarks.
Even when he took Naryshkin to legal school to get his statement correct, he was jovial about it.
Putin was collecting consensus. We also saw his power vector in action. Shoigu, Lavrov and Patrushev, Borisov and Naryshkin with Medvedev represent all relevant internal and external interests Putin manages.
This flies in the face of all the crap that he’s an autocrat. He’s a leader. Top of the agenda are the national interests of the Russian Federation and all the Russian World. (that is 145 million inside the borders and 22 million outside the borders), and wherever Russia is invited for security, development, and political alignment, such as Syria, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Mali, Central African Republic, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc.
Yes, stick to facts and keep the eyes on the prize. Russia must lock down its security for the future of its people and, quite frankly, the security of the planet.
Well, Naryshkin seemed a bit uncertain to me…
Starting in the first Cold War, the study of body postures, grooming, movements, tone, even clothing was a specialized science between the KGB and CIA psychologists and others. It still gives insights..
– Putin’s face a little swollen? And sad. I noted the same about Lavrov in last weeks; stress/inadequate sleep in context of aging will do that under constant pressure as the body becomes water-logged or with slight weight gain.
– Shoigu was wearing a suit, and his face more sour than usual. But maybe suits are de rigueur in these most VIP of meetings. Even traveling to Syria and meeting w Assad last week he didn’t wear a suit.
– Lavrov looked the most relaxed, like the relay racer who had handed the baton to the man seated to his right.
– Patrushev looked worn out, was slouched. Is that his norm? Some thinker personalities focus best in a relaxed posture, so it may be his norm.
– Anton Siluanov looked forlorn, almost in tears. There goes that retirement in the Côte d’Azur..
– they are seated quite a distance from Putin, similar to other photo-ops in recent past. He is being protected at all costs. The biggest risks are from internal sources who may unknowingly transfer something to him.
– No muzzles or submissive messaging. In fact the tableau recalls a sentencing by a Judge, with attendant Counselors, Witnesses and Executioners taking notes. Woe to the Sea Pirates! Also the case is being made to an external audience (the global village): we tried our best, it is what it is, that which is coming..
Majority of the russian duma and the majority of the people present agree to recognize the independence of DPR and LPR.
I believe that Putin will recognize them.
US financial markets are closed today but spot gold is trading. Despite the concerning reports on the front lines, as of right now (10am US time) the gold price is below 1900 and not indicating a stressful event, at least as of now. Praying for calm and soberness all around.
Russia says it is holding a Ukrainian POW
as his military unit was in the act of breaching Russian territory.
Both Putin and Lavrov spoke in favor of recognition of the independence of the DPR and LPR. Seem clear that this will happen later today.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but in my eyes, Putin did appear to be tired/stressed. He certainly has the weight of the world on his shoulders.
Putin did look stressed. I sensed he was fed up and realized that “negotiation” is going nowhere. I also sense that he knows that he is about to “cross the Rubicon.”
The EU and the US will respond with “sanctions” and maybe even cancel NS2. Putin undoubtedly understood that these things were going to happen no matter what he did or did not do.
We have just entered a new era in history.
The empire’s desperation is growing. They want their war at all costs. But this time by directly attacking Russia and extending the confrontation to Crimea. Is Macron playing the small messenger or even double game? The danger of a large-scale war has just crossed two steps at once.
I have been watching the whole meeting live and every single person at the meeting has said that VVP should recognise the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics. People’s lives at threat being the main reason.
VVP will give his view in the next few hours – I think it will be yes to recognise.
Russia has had enough! They have all stated eight years and nothing has been done with the Minsk Agreements. Summing up – Lavrov, Shoigu, FSB all siad nothing will change, so should recognise. There was one chap near the end who said it should be the whole of Donbass not just where the LOC is. The full original borders of the two regions.
Live update thread at Sputnik
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky advocates the recognition of the DPR and LPR by Russia, since, in his opinion, this will allow him to refuse to implement the Minsk agreements, Strana.ua reports, citing sources close to the office of the Ukrainian leader.
According to the interlocutors, the Ukrainian authorities are not going to conduct direct negotiations with the self-proclaimed republics, and also do not want to amend the constitution on their special status.
“The recognition of the republics by Russia on Bankova is considered a very good option, since this will bury the Minsk agreements so unloved by the Ukrainian authorities. This is also why Zelensky has no desire to somehow move along Minsk-2. On the contrary, there is a desire to drag out the process until Russia recognizes the DPR and LPR and the problem will thus be solved by itself, ”the publication says.
If the Ukraine does not want to implement it, why should anybody else? You don’t need an excuse to not do something if you don’t wanna do it anyway.
Zelensky should escape if he values his life. At least the West will now get their (partial) invasion.
It’s game-over. Ukraine has lost the Donbass.
They lost the Donbass when they attacked the citizens there and in Crimea, Mariupol and then Odessa.
You kill your own citizens, you don’t ever win the survivors back.
Kiev wallows in a psychosis paid for by the State Dept., managed by the CIA and supported externally by the EU and NATO.
The day of reckoning has arrived.
Washington has built a clever ‘beartrap’ in Ukraine. Russia is damned if it does nothing and waits until NATO takes over Ukraine, and damned if it intervenes militarily in a pre-emptive war, and is turned into an international outlaw by the West. It’s a dilemma. There are no ‘good’ solutions for Russia in Ukraine.
Washington wants to see Russia bogged down in a vicious war in Ukraine. A new Afghanistan right in the heartland of historic Russia. It’s a horrible situation. A terrible choice for Moscow. Which is worse, doing nothing, or doing something?
One cannot trust the Americans when they say they won’t send ground troops to Ukraine to fight Russia. That could all change very quickly if the fighting starts and the Russians are blamed for some cooked-up ‘atrocity’ involving civilians. NATO attacked Serbia, Iraq, Libya, so why should Ukraine be different, once the war-hysteria starts to boil over. This could be 1914 all over again.
NATO will not get involved in this in any way. They do not have a death wish. As for Russia getting bogged down in a war with Ukraine. It will be short and humiliating for the Ukies. That is the reality.
Yes. The saving grace in all of this is that Ukraine is NOT part of NATO, which means that there is no immediate triggering of NATO (with France and Germany balking it’s unlikely that NATO could be pushed forward into any battle). The West would be forced to take matters to the UN where they are unlikely going to get a free pass, and where Russia will then be able to make its case with such clarity that either Ukraine is finally forced to abide by the Minsk agreement or DPR and LPR get attached to Russia: one “neutral” solution might be that it becomes its own country- a buffer zone, but I have no idea/opinion on who this might work long-term.
Suppose Putin decides to recognizes the breakaway states and independent Republics. This would be similar to the Crimea situation. Russian might then move troops into Donetsk and Lugansk. The West will call this an invasion of sovereign Ukraine territory. Russia would say they were invited by independent sovereign nations. So there would be no attack, the regions would be fortified, but that moves us to the next stage.
The West call this an outragious move and implements full sanctions; removal of SWIFT, end of Nordstream II, etc. Unlike Crimea, Russia probably doesn’t annex Donetsk and Lugansk, but from a geopolitical view point, that makes little difference.
Saker and others, I may be way off base, this seems like a possible outcome. Is this a likely near term scenario?
I do not believe SWIFT will happen. NS 2 may but Russia seems to be reconciled for whatever comes.
Recognising Donetsk and Lughansk as independent countries IMHO is a compromise between the two extremes of either Ukrainian conquest, or full Russian annexation. The majority of countries worldwide are unlikely to recognise these two new countries until the current Kiev regime either accepts LDNR as independent, or disintegrates.
There are quite a few advantages for Moscow using this 3rd option:
*Moscow will not need to deploy a large occupation force; LDNR military will do that
*Moscow gets a buffer zone between Russia and NATO
*Moscow gets more time for a new status quo (weakening of NATO) to develop on its own, and diplomatically encourage non-NATO countries to accept & even promote the new status quo
*Moscow can focus on developing LDNR’s economy, which will eventually allow LDNR to buy its own (Russian) weapons
That said, I am curious to know how much Beijing will be involved in (quietly) developing LDNR’s economy. It has been rumoured that Beijing has quietly encouraged many Chinese firms to invest in Crimea, even though Beijing has not officially recognised Crimea as a province of Russia (due to fears about legality issues with respect to Taiwan.)
Let’s hope the US filth are scurrying around traumatised at this minute. 8 long years holed down like an animal in a burrow. Send in the troops and rid the borders of these Nazis for good. Imo, 8 years too late appeasing the Euro vassals and the satanic US forces,
It is interesting that the Duma are framing the recognition of the DonBass republics as being a matter of Russian security whereas before Russia supported the Minsk agreements. Is this a message to the West that Russia will consider all options if her security is threatened – including going against a UN resolution?
If the republics are recognised then presumably Russia will have more of a free hand in supporting them overtly with defensive weaponry (possibly EW systems such as used in Syria) and possibly even more modern stand-off missile systems. Complete with advisors.
This would not be an invasion or Russia intervening but would have the same effect. In due course local elections and referenda could be held as to whether these republics wanted to join the Russian Federation.
Such a course would fit with Putin’s normal negotiations of “best offer first” – Minsk has been rejected so now the DonBass is lost to Ukraine but they will still be forced to make peace or finance forever war on their eastern border.
Not sure if a gas pipeline goes through this territory but if so then presumably DonBass will get a share of the Ukie transit fees which will help make them more viable in the short term.
I, of course, Russia recognises them.
There is no word binding Russia to anything in the Minsk accord not in the UNSC resolution in question.
So, assuming you are misinformed and not misleading, you are incorrect here. Russia recognizing the LDNR (in whatever way or form) would be perfectly legal.
The same way as any international entity recognizing (aka admitting to the existence of) any other entity is legal and always was.
Now, the “legality” of the LDNR declaring independence may be in dispute indeed. However that has nothing to do who does/does not recognize them.
Perhaps misinformed – definitely not misleading. I know that there is no specific tie within any of the Minsk Agreements but I thought (based on an earlier comment in a previous thread) that the affirmation of the Minsk Agreements by the UNSC gave it international status and that by departing from this Russia might be perceived as going against international law.
Is this incorrect?
You miss the point here. Russia’s actions can’t be questioned considering that Ukraine has rejected implementing the Minsk accords on several occasions and Germany and France encouraging the Ukies not to implement them. Diplomatic cables released by Russia revealed that Germany and France rejected the Minsk Protocol when Russia was repeatedly requesting them to abide by the agreement.
As per the agreement, Ukraine is obliged to give autonomy to LDNR. What Russia has done is recognizing that autonomy outside the Minsk Protocol. So whether Ukraine implements the agreement or not, Donbass will secede from Ukraine.
Vlad should think outside the box…. based upon Russia being the “Continuation State” of the USSR… That is… Recognize the republics as the “legal government” of Ukraine === ALL OF IT!
Does the ‘West’ believe in the right of ‘self-determination’ for all people?
Does the ‘West’ believe that all countries have the right to decide who their friends and allies are?
I find it fascinating that on the day where America honor’s President Lincoln, that Lincoln’s words from his 2nd Inaugural Address would appear to fit President Putin but are now words that no American can imagine any American Republican nor Democrat uttering ….
“With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.”
And then Lincoln was murdered. End of the dream.
OK, my money is on Putin recognizing the two republics in the next few hours. He has no choice. His Duma speaks strongly, Both Lavrov and Shoigu are in favor. All of his security council stated they are all in favor.
It will be a defining moment as the legal and political landscape will change. The military landscape will change at that moment. How? It is too early to say.
Putin made clear that it would be a recognition, and not bringing them into Russia. I hope they use their heads and combine.
Now,for changing the security landscape and our world!
Some more comments that I quickly translated from the ColonelCassad Telegram channel:
– Kolokoltsev called for the recognition of the DNR and LNR within the borders of the former Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
– Matvienko said that Russia has a moral debt to Donbass (with interest for 8 years of waiting).
– Bortnikov said that 68,500 refugees have already been accepted on Russian territory. He also confirmed the destruction of two DRGs of the AFU and the capture of one prisoner.
– Mishustin said that the Russian economy was ready for the consequences of the recognition of the DNR and LNR.
– Patrushev said that it makes sense to negotiate only with the U.S., the others do not solve anything anyway. A thick hint that there will be no meetings with Zelensky.
Putin rejecting Zelensky months ago. His only path to counterpart with Putin is through Minsk 2.
So, the issue is dead. Zelensky now has qualified for War Crimes Trials.
We have not seen the dungeons and heard of the tortures and crimes against humanity the Ukies have officially done. The Ukraine is a charnel house of horrors that will be exposed. It involves the CIA, SBU and their GRU.
Auslander tells us over and over scores will be settled and there are official, verified investigations done over the years.
Zelensky should get on his plane and fly to safety. Then his punishment will catch up to him after the trials. Special Delivery! Just like Stepan Bandera.
In the second remark, “retaking Crimea” sounds like an acknowledgement that it has changed hands.
My understanding was that, apart from inviting the NATO correspondents to leave, and posting a few “polite green” peacekeepers around the peninsula, there was no “taking”. It wasn’t like Kazakhstan, where they had to arrest a bunch of people.
Crimea was never Ukrainian de facto. Only de jure, and even that claim was strenuous. There was really nothing to “invade” as they were already there.
The only things needed were to provide legal cover for the Ukrainian servicemen so they can legally surrender – without overwhelming firepower they would be tried ad absentia for treason. And to help secure the isthmuses from the likes or Azov & Co. Besides, Crimeans would have kicked the ukies out even themselves.
Supporting them allowed saving lives on both sides. The result known prior to the altercation anyway.
I was hoping someone who knows Russian would have an explanation — did Mr. Putin really say “retaking”?
He said “fight for this territory” referring to Crimea.
(remind me never to try and take quick notes again – it just confuses people lol – and let’s not blame The Saker.)
The formal translation (and this is by far not complete yet), says:
“But since nobody recognises the will expressed by the people of Crimea and Sevastopol, and Ukraine continues to insist that it is Ukrainian territory, there is a real threat that they will try to take back the territory they believe is theirs using military force. And they do say this in their documents, obviously. Then the entire North Atlantic Alliance will have to get involved.”
Cannot find it, do you have the stoppage when ti was said ?
I have assumed you were just geenrally referring to the event.
In other speeches Putin always used the term “return of”.
Besides, there definitely was a change of governance, Russia officially admitted Crimea and Sevastopol as NEW constituent members of the federation. The RSFSR parliament declaration of 1992, which disawoved the unconstitutional transfer of 1954, was never followed-up in practical policy.
So as RF never challenged the Ukrainian jurisdiction over Crimea formally. Actualy it confirmed it by leasing the bases there. So no reason to pretend the governance of the plac did not switch from Ukraine, to self-governance and then to the republics joining the Russian Federation.
In that context, is is most likely a mistranslation.
The words used for “acquiring” “taking” etc. do not have direct translations between English and Russian. It is easy to change the meaning of the sentence by using the wrong word when live-translating.
Ahh, correction — now that I have watched the video (I thought it would be Russian only — there was simultaneous translation), I see that Mr. Putin does not say such a thing, and it was merely Saker shorthand for his complete explanation of the situation.
What Shoigu & Lavrov Say!
People expect recognition. So do I.
Let us, then, consider what happens 5 minutes later.
Recognized Republic request military assistance.
They’ll get it.
The nazi threats to go nuclear provide objective reason to liberate most of Ukraine. Step by step.
The “sanctions” will result in Western Europe being forced to leave NATO.
Some may note that nuke threat by nazi is “beard” for “somebody” providing the bits…nazi nuke won’t take long. In fact my bet is the “somebody” has already transferred gadget to nazi region and it’s under special forces control.
2/22/22 is Pluto return anniversary of 4th of July 1776…Satin loves his rhymes. (yeah, woowoo, but they are like that…)
I was unaware of the results of the referendums in Donetsk and Lugansk held in 2014, not far from the Crimea result.
In February 2014, the Obama/Biden regime’s Maidan coup transformed democratic Ukraine into Nazi-infested fascist rule.
In response, Donetsk and Lugansk held referendums weeks later for their people to decide on whether to go along or break away.
Results were overwhelming.
Almost 90% of Donetsk residents voted for self-determination.
In Lugansk, results showed 96.2% support for self-rule.
Popular sentiment to break away from Kiev was all about opposition to living under fascist rule.
Turnout was high — nearly 75% in Donetsk, 81% in Lugansk.
Reflecting overwhelming popular sentiment, Lugansk People’s Governor Valery Bolotov said the following:
“We have chosen our own path of independence from tyranny and bloody dictatorship by Kiev junta, from fascism and nationalism.”
“We have chosen the path of freedom and the rule of law.” https://stephenlendman.org/2022/02/16/russian-recognition-of-donbass-long-overdue/#more-36787
As predicted, the large scale attack on LDNR will come as Russia moves to recognize their independence.
They are already probing the Russian border, where not a mosquito can fly in undetected. This is the beginning of what can be a cataclysmic event for 404. Russian Security Council already made the recommendations, Putin’s hand will not shake, fed up as he is (and all of us) at the perversity of the West + 404.
I have awaited this event for years, whatever comes, I am sure Russia has the means to defend Donbass, and more.
Long live the free and independent LDNR!!!
“There is nothing more important than independence and freedom.”
Ho Chi Minh.
Pres Putin looked very sad in his eyes….going publicly through the legal process.Most of the speakers had very little opinion of the value of Macron…..and maybe what Scholz said regarding genocide was part of the tipping point.
So….a decision…humanitarian intervention…and or maybe an ultimatum to ukr now ..ceasefire and withdraw forces 100km in next 24 hrs???
Forgot to add it to former post.
Comments from the top brass and Russian political leadership on the recognition of Donbass.
The Russian Security Council discussed the idea of recognizing the independence of the DPR and LPR
Putin is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Putin stated that the west will sanction Russia no matter what happens. Recognize the Donbass, demand a immediate withdrawal of ukrop nazis to the west of the Dnieper river or face destruction. Liberate all of the eastern Ukraine all the way to Odessa. Give the nazis the chance to leave or fight. This is much bigger than just Ukraine. It’s the formation of a new multi polar world. Poland and Romania givin notice to withdraw all missile systems on a time clock or be destroyed.
Zone A expects Russia to act decisively. If Zone A is convinced that Russia can stand its ground against Anglozionism and that China has Russia’s back then the courageous moves away from the West will grow in numbers.
🇷🇺⚡The Grand Security Council discussed the recognition of Donbass:
• Lavrov – recognize
• Bortnikov – recognize
• Shoigu – recognize
• Medvedev – if there is no improvement, recognize
• Volodin – recognize
• Matvienko – recognize
• Patrushev – give Biden 2-3 days, if it doesn’t help – admit
• Mishustin – if there is no improvement, recognize
• Naryshkin – recognize
• Bells – recognize
• Shchegolev – recognize
• Zolotov – recognize
Democracy you will never see in America beamed live to the whole world.
The only language these American and Dual cockroaches understand is gunboat diplomacy.
The concerted western effort to accuse Russia of imminent invasion was a ruse in order to consolidate/reinforce Ukrainian/NATO positions. They’ll shout and scream, we told you so, but who cares.
Not one step backwards whatever noise comes.
I think recognizing the DPR and the LPR is the correct move here. I don’t think there will be any breakthrough by following the Minsk agreement because the Empire has no intention of following it. The Empire wants a war, creating a sort of UW situation like Afghanistan is the endgame for Ukraine and is what the Empire is after here. Recognizing the DPR and the LPR changes the dynamic and allows the RF a defensive posture.
Some of these policies really aren’t new. During the Soviet era places like Donets, Baku, Kuznetsk, Baikal and other places were seen as Soviet core areas.
The CIA placed some emphasis on the Donets as a core area by using the so called Gehlen organization and its connections to UHVR to train Banderites in UW starting at the end of WWII. What is going on today in the Ukraine is almost a generational thing. The CIA connections to Nazism also stretch from those roots until today’s Azov battalion.
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists
CIA project AERODYNAMIC FOIA:
Just a couple of links for background but there is a huge vein of research in this area left untapped.
Putin to address the Russian nation live in a few moments.
I don’t think Putin is taking time to make up his mind, I think he is preparing the ground for the decision.
If Russia recognises the new Republics, will China, Venezuela, Brazil, Iran ——— follow suit?
What about France and Germany?
I wonder how Putin can align tbe decision to recognize these republics with Article 1 (joint counteraction to terrorism, separatism and extremism in all of them manifestations) and Article 2 (mutual respect of sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity of the states and inviolability of frontiers, non-aggression, non-interference to internal affairs..) of the SCO charter.
I expect that China will recognize the breakaway republics shortly after Russia does.
I am embarrassed (once again) to be American. The first time was in 1980, while visiting the Atomic Bomb Museum in Hiroshima
Same Black Cloud, for me it was seeing the war museum in Vietnam and the prison of torture. It was also just living in Asia and understanding how the UK. And US damaged soooo much and was still doing it!
Kiev’s forces can provoke with shelling, at will, the vastly inferior numbers of the break-away regions without any criticism from the West. The break-away regions cannot sustain the effort to prevent cracks in their defence indefinitly, due to exhaustion & psychological stress.
Kiev is losing ( it is estimated ) between $ 2 & $3 billion a month due to the Western invasion hysterics. This is also unsustainable.
Who will crack first ?
Firstly, can any one of the Saker community who is an American citizen recall this type of high-level discussion ever being made available to the public while it is taking place? I cannot recall in my 74+ years such a debate other than U.S. Congressional hearings that are always framed around talking points and finger-pointing to gain political or economic brinkmanship.
I believe this date, February 21, 2022, will mark a tipping point in current foreign affairs because President Putin has said unequivocally he will make a decision today as to whether he concurs with the State Duma, the foreign ministry and the leadership of the armed forces regarding the formal recognition by the Russian Federation of the birth of the Donetsk and Luhansk Peoples Republics.
Unlike the U.S., Russians are a moral people, a Christian people, an ancient people who know what human suffering is for they have experienced it many times throughout their glorious history.
How can he not?
Questions abound . . .
If President Putin agrees, will that accelerate Ukraine’s ascension into NATO?
If the DPR and LPR are declared independent sovereignties, will they petition the Kremlin to each become a federal district following in the footsteps of Crimea?
If the State Duma rejects the request to incorporate, it still leaves the glaring issues of (1) U.S.-NATO right up on the border of the two buffer States of DPR and LPR (2) nuclear warhead capable missiles installed in Eastern European countries pointed at Russia. Both of these remain Russia’s red lines.
If President Putin declines to accept the DPR and LPR, then will the evacuation continue as Dmitry Orlov had envisioned here (see: http://thesaker.is/putins-ukrainian-judo-revisited/ )?
As I posted a while ago, U.S.-NATO and Ukraine would fill the vacuum left in Donbass with no resistance as a buffer of protection for Russia’s western border.
I just read Luhanks and Donetsk now officially recognized as independent tates.
Moscow will declare the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics to be sovereign states, officials have confirmed
Putin set to recognize Donbass – Kremlin
Russian President Vladimir Putin has told foreign leaders that Moscow is likely to officially recognize the sovereignty of the Donetsk (DPR) and Lugansk (LPR) People’s Republics in Ukraine’s war-torn east.
In a statement released on Monday, the Kremlin revealed that Putin had notified French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz that he intends to sign a decree recognizing the two separatist Donbass regions “in the near future.”
Christia Freeland now has achieved martial law in two countries at once:
Ukrainian media reporting the National Security and Defense Council authorized the imposition of martial law in the country
I suppose that the Rabid dogs will start their assault tonite. The Ukros have really no other chance.
Not because they like it… just because their masters command it.
I still have time to replenish my stock of pop corn…
interesting times, indeed
And “near future” stand for….?
OK, well, everything seems clear now. Russia wins.
Any news on the ground? No one is reporting about the conflict itself, as far as I can tell. It’s like everyone is waiting for Putin’s decision.
I saw that a huge blast happened in Lugansk near a Center for Reconciliation.
Gold moving vertically now, breaching 1900 and indicating a risk sentiment shift. Bitcoin falling faster than Dick Cheney’s hunting partner. God have mercy.
It seems what may be on the medium term future table is for Putin to recognize the republics and then move “peacekeepers” from the CSTO (to give it an air of internationality) to protect the Republic’s contact line.
The European Union has pledged 1200 million euro (US$ 1360 million) aid for Ukraine. Why stop shelling your own citizens if you’re getting paid verry well to do so?
does this cover the 3 billion per month that Naziland is losing from this ‘conflict’?
OK so slightly confused as not sure how recognising independent Donbas & Lugansk would work let alone achieve anything in their current borders as having such a small front and major cities so close to the LOC seems like delaying tactics to me.
Putin is correct to state that sanctions arrive no matter the situation so best to take advantage of the situation and act aggressively to show the US/NATO you mean business by a limited operation to resolve this stalemate by pushing the opponent West and occupy what historically belongs to Russia by expanding the borders to the Dnieper River.
The delaying tactics, diplomacy will not work as US does not want peace and will act on perceived weakness from the Russians and the collective West is weak so strike whilst the iron is hot, otherwise we replay the scenario in a few months/years when the West will have caught up.
I retract my earlier post as have had time to read the Saker and Andrei’s updates regarding the further plans and deployment of Peacekeeping troops.
I fear that the West will escalate matters via their proxies within the UAF (Pravi Sektor, Azov, etc) resulting in harsh reprisals and if anything the move may promote the indigenous populations of Kharkov, Odessa and Slavjansk to rebel and seek liberation as the areas historically belong to Novorussia and breath Russian despite the brainwashing and destruction caused by 404 occupation???
Don’t discount the West trying to stage a false flag event in Kiev as a last ditch attempt to sway international opinion as the plans exist and I don’t see NATO openly attacking Russian/Donbass forces?
Finally, can we expect the Russians to implement a NFZ which will target any hostile aircraft such as Global Hawk which regularly patrol close to the borders as everybody knows these flights are a provocation…?
Putin just finished his announcement recognising the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. He did not specify which borders he would recognize, though. Is it the current border or the pre-2014 border?
Thank you for making this truly historical event available to us. Seldom do we have the opportunity to “attend” such high level meetings live… Most revealing!
These exhaustive explanations are addressed to the Russian and Ukrainian people. Not to the West.
The West may listen in if they wish, but Putin and his team are talking to their people. En long et en large…
Brilliant. Ukraine signed the Minsk agreement saying they would bring back these Donbass republics into Ukraine.
The Minsk agreement was ratified by the U.N. and then passed into international law. But Ukraine has broken this law all along, and asked when they will comply they say “never”!
The Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east include a lot of women and children and old people, it’s pretty bad that Kiev’s attacking them (their own citizens).
Hey if Kiev doesn’t want the east anymore they should have just said so…!
Well, nobody can say that Mr. Putin didn’t try.
Putins playing bloody good chess.
Which is upsetting the Talmudic bankster globalists no end
It’s like the west maybe wants war to coverup all the damage done and to come from the spike protein toxin micro clot shots?