(Thanks to Singing Sam for pointing out this video to me and for sending me the transcript – The Saker)
Question: Mr. Lavrov, welcome to Conversation With. So, what do you have to say to Malaysia’s families who lost loved ones on MH17?
Lavrov: we already expressed our deepest condolences on many occasions to those who lost their families, their relatives their sons and daughters and parents. This is terrible tragedy and from the very first days if not hours of this, of this incident we have been insisting on
very thorough investigation and we were among the initiators of the Security Council resolution 2166 which was adopted a bit more than one year ago on the 21st of July last year and which called for a thorough comprehensive independent international investigation under the authority of the International Civil Aviation Organization. The Security Council pledged to keep this investigation under its permanent review. It’s also called upon the secretary-general to provide recommendations as to how the Security Council and the United Nations in general can help and assist in the investigation and it also called upon all countries who might possess any information to submit it to the investigation procedures. Unfortunately the investigation which was started was not independent was not comprehensive and was not truly international. Instead of acting under the authority of the International Civil Aviation Organization which is the rules under the Chicago Convention, Ukraine, Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands signed bilateral agreements between themselves the substance of which was never made fully known and based, uh organized the Joint Investigation Team criminal investigation team last August, August 2014. It’s really very strange that Malaysia was invited to join only in December 2014. So now this 5 country criminal investigation group technical investigation team was broadened. They invited several other countries to participate in this technical investigation including the Russian Federation. And the representative from the Russian Civil Aviation Organization is participating in these procedures but the information we receive through this representative is not complete. We are being given less than those who started the investigation which is also subject to questions.
Number two, the secretary-general unfortunately in spite of our reminders did not provide his recommendations as to how the United Nations can facilitate the investigation and the call of the Security Council upon all countries to submit information which might have any relevance to the incident was basically responded only by Russia, who submitted the data from our radar station in the Rostov region which monitored the skies at that time. The Americans said that they did have images from their satellite, but never submitted them, never make them public. The same was true for the Ukrainians who were asked to provide recordings of the air controllers and between the planes up in the air in the area of incident. All this unfortunately has been repeatedly brought to the attention of the United Nations and general public by us. We suggested that the Security Council couple of times should consider the implementation of this resolution and should you know call upon everyone to strictly abide by its provisions. Unfortunately the proposals were blocked in the Security Council, and the secretary-general also was asked by us to appoint special envoy to monitor the investigation and we also suggested to dispatch a Security Council mission to the area. All this was blocked, and unfortunately blocked by those very countries who now insist on creating the tribunal.
Question: Yes, isn’t it a bit confusing now though because the Malaysians have as a representative of a group and that is of course Malaysia, Australia, Belgium, Netherlands, Ukraine they’ve all—Australia—all come together though to put forward the latest draft resolution for the tribunal and they seem to be in agreement that there appears to be sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal tribunal. Why is it that Russia decided to veto that draft resolution? Why are you so against the criminal tribunal?
Lavrov: No, we are very strongly demanding that the truth be established and that the culprits be brought to justice. The Security Council was involved from the very beginning, and I just explained what measures the Security Council demanded to be taken one year ago. None of this was implemented, and the investigation is not transparent because not completely. The preliminary report which was circulated causes so many questions. It never answers such you know very simple things which air traffic and air service experts immediately brought to the attention of the public. They never inves.., they only said that the plane was hit by high energy particles. The first thing investigators, professional investigators do is to conduct chemical analysis of those particles was more than technologies because immed…, it is possible to immediately identify what is the metal and what factory in what country produced this particular thing. Another problem which I believe is very important from the very beginning there was finger pointing saying that we know who did it the rebels in Ukraine you did from the Russian-made air defense missile system and they even identify the system which is one of the options which is one the versions we believe must be thoroughly investigated. Why do you think they never ever approach the company the Russian company which produces those systems? The company itself conducted its own study and they presented the results in June this year. But the fact that the investigators didn’t ever approach the company which produced the system from which the investigators say the plane was hit is causing a lot of questions. My point answering your question is that the Security Council one year ago identified very specific steps to conduct investigation and most of the steps were not heeded, were not implement and people repeatedly blocked our proposals for the Security Council to pick up the matter during the year which passed after the tragedy. And they were saying that they’re doing this among themselves. By the way the five countries you mentioned apparently agreed among themselves not to provide any, not to make any information public unless all of them including Ukraine agreed. And we also don’t understand why Malaysia was invited only six months after the investigation team was was composed.
Question: But Liow Tiong Lai seemed satisfied enough to actually be the proposer of the resolution the draft resolution for the criminal tribunal and he expressed great disappointment in fact that the draft resolution wasn’t passed, blocking vote came from the Russian Federation and so if the countries involved who suffered victims seem to feel that the coming report which will be out in October had sufficient evidence in it to pursue a criminal tribunal. Why is Russia still so adamant…
Lavrov: you know, you say they were disappointed, we have been hugely disappointed that during the year which passed after the tragedy all our attempts to push the investigation to make it transparent to you know provide information because the families did not didn’t receive it enough information all our attempts to get answers to the questions which we formulated through our professional civil aviation agency, all this was just stonewalled and because of suspicions and you know if you if you take the..
Question: what is your position sir, you say it causes suspicions…
Lavrov: when people who say we would investigate instead of fulfilling the Security Council decision that the investigation must be under their authority all the International Civil Aviation Organization they ignored this they created their own small team without even inviting immediately Malaysia, waiting six months to do this then in the in the previous disasters like this including one in 1988 the United States shot down the Iranian civil airliner when Ukraine shot down the Russian airliner in 2001 whatever the case all these have been considered as criminal offense. The Security Council never created any tribunal to investigate these incidents. Every time there was some special way out and the proposal specific proposal which was submitted apart from the arguments which I already alluded to like you know ignoring the previous resolution but insisting that the council should create the tribunal. Apart from this the proposal itself was very peculiar. It was proposed in the draft statute to establish the tribunal based mostly on the Ukrainian law for the judges and prosecutors of the tribunal to be appointed by the Secretary General without consulting the Security Council and the judges as it was proposed in the draft statute should have experience in exercising Ukrainian and Malaysian law. It is not, it does not look like an international investigation or prosecution mechanism.
Question: Sir do I understand correctly though that you are implying that the other countries including Malaysia are being manipulated by the Ukrainians?
Lavrov: Uh I’m not saying that anyone is manipulated by Ukrainians and least of all by Malaysians. We believe Malaysia is the most sincerely interested country in establishing the truth. It has experienced two disasters with its airliners and I don’t see any political motivation in what Malaysia is trying to do. There should be no doubt about it. I cannot be so certain about some other colleagues especially from from the western countries who seem to be quite quite prejudiced. but still the chief of the criminal investigation team said that he didn’t exclude that the plane might have been hit by air to air missile not just by surface to air missile. Our experts have been looking in both options and they believe that both of them must be investigated. But you know when we try to speak about this it is very easy to be driven by emotions for Russia should be something which was supposed to establish the truth. I never get an answer from my colleagues in the investigation team to a very simple question. If from the very first days it was stated that most probably the plane was hit by the Buk air defense missile made in Russia. Why the producer of the system was never called and why this producer has himself you know initiate some investigation and this, the results of this investigation was made public and very simple question about the American satellite images, about Ukrainian air traffic controllers recordings by the way the those who insisted that is the rebels who are responsible try, try not to mention the nearest very simple and very well known fact this happened on the 17th of July. On the 20th of July the black boxes were discovered on the 21st of July they were given to Malaysian experts who then transmitted them to the Dutch investigators immediately. So that so many politicized politicized games around this tragedy you that we cannot, we cannot pretend that we are satisfied was the way the original resolution was handled. It was. it was you know bypassed by the investigators. The demands were not implemented, the information is not made public and now they’re ignoring our proposals to engage the Security Council during the year, saying that they’re doing this on their own. I don’t believe you its to you know crucial for them to have something under the Security Council. As I said none of these, such cases have been investigated has been, has been and subject to a tribunal by the Security Council. And by the way the representatives of this criminal investigation group including Ukrainians they said they’re thinking of creating some mechanism outside the United Nations and maybe using using national jurisdiction. That’s how all similar disasters have been handled.
Question: So you would like it to be done in national jurisdictions and not under the United Nations?
Lavrov: I would like the Security Council resolution 2166 to be respected fully which was not the case by the criminal investigation team created by the five countries you mentioned.
Question: If I could just quote you though something that the Malaysian Minister Transport Liow Tiong Lai said, he said that instead conveying a message of support, justice and accountability we are sending a dangerous message of impunity for the perpetrator of this heinous crime. Do you agree though?
Lavrov: I believe, no I don’t agree with this. I, I read an interview with the former ambassador of Malaysia to the Netherlands in the Sun yesterday who said different things, who said that this is hugely politicized, and I agree with him.
Question: So you believe that the Malaysian government again by implication is being manipulated by a political agenda?
Lavrov: I don’t know who has… (unintelligible, both speaking) I don’t know whether the Malaysian government is manipulated. I said only one thing, I can repeat it again. I don’t have any suspicions that Malaysian government sincerely wants to establish the truth. I’m sure this is the case for the Dutch government for the Australian government. But there are also those in Europe and in the west who would like to use this tragedy to achieve also political purposes.
Question: Who are these in Europe and the West who would try to achieve a political purpose (unintelligible, both speaking)
Lavrov: Well those who immediately, the next day after the disaster pointed the finger to the rebels, now this very people say that they want the justice to prevail.
Question: Are you referring to the Ukraine?
Lavrov: Well there were many statements in Europe and the United States, Ukraine, uh I don’t think Ukraine was making any straightforward statements. My point is people including those whose countries who are the creators of this criminal investigation team have said that they knew who did it. If you know who did it you say so you present your report and then we will see whether this report is persuasive. But they also must answer the question why they ignored most of the demands of the Security Council of the original resolution. Doesn’t it look fishy, what do you think?
Question: Well sir the countries who are involved seem to think that it doesn’t look fishy and that there is sufficient evidence to (form?) a criminal tribunal.
Lavrov: If you you were asked to to present your opinion do you think the Security Council resolution on such important issue should be strictly implemented or not?
Question: But sir that would imply that 2166 was somehow wrong fundamentally (unintelligible)
Lavrov: No, I’m asking whether 2166 should be implemented strictly or not.
Question: Sir most important in this interview is definitely of course your opinion not mine. Could we move on, sir, to looking at Russia’s role in Asia?
Lavrov: Now that you failed to answer my question, okay let’s move on.
Question: Shall we look at Russia’s involvement here in Asian engagement here in Asia later this month Russia will be holding joint military drills with China in the air and sea space of the Sea of Japan and the Chinese Defense Ministry have said that they see this as for to further enhance the capabilities jointly coping with maritime security threats. So what are these maritime security threat?
Lavrov, Well, piracy for one smuggling, including smuggling of potentially dangerous materials, maybe materials related to weapons of mass destruction so it’s about piracy it’s about non-proliferation just the same the same purposes as we are being engaged together with NATO together with China with the European Union in the Gulf of Guinea, in the Gulf of Aden the Somali pirates, piracy coalition, and this is not this is not something unique. I understand that if I, I don’t have statistics about the number of exercises we conduct on our eastern frontiers together with China or other countries is a very tiny percentage of the number of exercises when American neighbors conduct together with Japan, South Korea and others in this area. And we are very much concerned about build-up which is the military build up taking place in this region, the continued strengthening of the closed military blocks. Instead of going this way we proposed I think three years ago together with China, together with Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia and other countries to discuss in the context of the East Asia summits the formation of an open comprehensive non-block security and cooperation architecture. And there have been four rounds of discussions and we hold that the forth-coming East Asia Summit this year the leaders would express themselves on the work being done.
Question: Given the situation the South China Sea with a certain amount of tension some political watchers would say that the joint military drills might indicate that China supports that Russia supports China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea. Does Russia support China claims in the South China Sea?
Lavrov: This, this political analysts should better study what our position is which is not secret, it is publicly presented. We are strongly in favor of any dispute in South China Sea, in the East China Sea in any sea for that matter to be, to be resolved on the basis of the international law including first the full 1982 Below the Sea Convention on the basis of the declarations signed between China and Russia and on this basis the countries directly involved in any dispute should find mutually acceptable solution without any outside interference. We don’t believe that, that attempts to internationalize the disputes are really healthy. Such attempts normally are intended not to help the countries in question to move closer but rather to help some, to gain some political scores internationally, and I don’t believe this is serious, I don’t believe this is fair.
Question: So what are Russia’s intentions in Asia?
Lavrov: Uh, well we know that Russia is the biggest Asian country if you take territory from the Ural Mountains where it starts and you have the legitimate interest all borders of our big country and we are one of the, one of the biggest Pacific, Pacific power and we certainly have an interest first of all in developing our far-eastern distance Siberia it is not populated as densely as the European part of Russia and we want this part of our country to develop much faster than it does and of course these days of interdependence, globalization offer a lot of opportunities to promote your national interest in cooperation with your neighbors with other countries in the region. That’s why while developing our own problems for Russians forests in east Siberia we try to engage all the potentials existing in Asian-Pacific cooperative structures including APEC, including East Asia summits, and including our bilateral relations with the countries of the region. ASEAN, ASEAN in particular. When our number eight partner, economic partner ASEAN our volume of trade doubled during the last seven years it was more than $20 billion dollars a year now and we intend to continue not only trade but also joint economic projects in high-technology, nuclear energy, outer space exploration, truck transport infrastructure the many plans between us and the countries of the region which I believe are mutually beneficial.
Question: You mentioned sir the increase in trade between Russia and ASEAN is up now at $20 billion, but does it concern you that trade with United States in ASEAN is almost ten times larger up around $200 billion. Is that a cause of concern?
Lavrov: Why, why should that concern us? It’s trade between ASEAN and the United States. It’s their business we’re not we’re not doing something with our ASEAN friends to out-bench somebody. We’re doing this for the benefit of ASEAN and the Russian Federation. And let the trade between ASEAN and other countries boom you know up to the skies. We will be concentrating on the abilities which we and ASEAN can use together.
Question: What do you think of the moves by the current Japanese government, Abe’s government to change the constitution so that they can be more active militarily overseas. Is this something that Russian is concerned about?
Lavrov: It is the Japanese’ Constitution and it is the responsibility of the Japanese people. I have no doubt that the Japanese people understand the historic legacy, which is not very bright, and I’m sure the Japanese government understands the importance of maintaining good relations with all its neighbors. And of course I would hope that they keep in mind their international responsibility as, as regards the order created after World War II.
Question: Do you feel though that the world is becoming more dangerous place sir? Do you think that relations for example between two big super powers like Russia and and the United States are more dangerous, more dangerous for us in Asia?
Lavrov: You know, no and yes. No because I don’t even think that that it is possible to imagine something like their reputation from World War Two or something like Hiroshima the 70th anniversary of which comes these days and this was this was a terrible event involves history absolutely unnecessary so dangers like this I don’t foresee. There is no bipolar confrontation when the whole globe was split into two parts you know but the same time was the collapse of this bipolar confrontational structure there appeared so many regional conflicts. And of course the action by some of our colleagues including the United States to promote their own view of the world and to promote their vision how all countries most live including through using military force, including through changing the legitimate governments, all these brought to life so many uncertainties and gave rise to people who want to use terrorist means to achieve their goals. If somebody is allowed to use force they say why don’t we follow the same, the same example is to promote our ideas. So that’s how ISIL, that’s how ISIL announced its goal to create a caliphate from Spain to Pakistan, a huge territory.
Question: You draw a parallel between ISIL and the United States.
Lavrov: No, ISIL’s uh logic as we see it now is a product of the quote unquote revolutions to which took place in the Middle East and North Africa. But what I’m saying is whenever you start you know expanding your ideology not by persuasion but by force you create so many risks and so many dangers. Indeed be it the promotion of communism like the Soviet Union used to, do be it the promotion of democracy in spite of all the cultural differences and ignoring the traditions and values of the people whom you want to make happy could be terrorist, the terrorist ideals of the caliphate. You can not impress and impose your will upon others by force.
Question: And you believe the role that Russia should play in all this is what? What should Russia be doing since world has got at least one super power that is attempting to persuade people by force.
Lavrov: Russia is in favor, and we have been doing this for quite some time now, of making the United Nations Charter respected um making the Security Council to be the central body as the charter provides for, to coordinate efforts of the international community in addressing more than threats and challenges including terrorism including drug trafficking including organized crime, and our initiative which we presented that last year is to have given the United Nations Security Council a thorough analysis of all threats which is which are present in the Middle East and North Africa, mostly the threat of terrorism and to elaborate common standards to address such threats. I’ll explain what common standard means. When Libya was attacked those who wanted to overthrow Qaddafi they were closing their eyes they were sometimes supplying arms to the groups on the ground very extremist groups only because they were fighting the Qaddafi army. When Qadaffi was deposed these very people started trouble in neighboring countries including Mali and the countries who armed them, like France for example, who armed them to topple Gadhafi were fighting them in Mali, and this people who are fighting the French with the French weapons. This, this kind of double standards must be avoided. If, if we all, uh want to eradicate terrorism then we must not allow the situations to happen. When we close our eyes on bad guys and call them not-so-bad terrorists because they fight your enemy, somebody whom you, whom you hate like Saddam Hussein, like Muammar Qadaffi like other authoritarian leaders as it were, neither in Iraq, nor in Libya, nor in Syria where attempt to change regime by force from outside are being made became became happier. Don’t you agree with me?
Question: Sir if I can bring you back to Asia. Do you think that the United States is a destabilizing force in its presence in Asia?
Lavrov: Uh, I didn’t say this. I said that the United States is making…
Question: I believe that your colleague the defense minister has said that. That the United States is possibly one of the most destabilizing forces in Asia. Do you agree?
Lavrov: The, the I said that the United States is engaged in a very huge military buildup in Asia, including under the pretext of countering the North Korean threat but the uh scale of the build-up is way beyond the need, you know, to neutralize. It’s disproportionately huge. Let me put it this way. United States is also building missile defense with cooperation with Japan and South Korea which is not helpful at all and the fact that the United States dropped from the treaty, ABM treaty some, some time ago was a destabilizing factor of global importance. Because it, three years you know the build-up that brings us back to the mutually assured destruction logic in, in as it relates to the strategic stability.
Question: We’re not there at the mutually assured destruction logic any more are we sir?
Lavrov: I said that the withdrawal the United Nations from the, the ABM treaty brings temptation to bring this logic back which would be which would be very unfortunate.
Question: Russia would not want that?
Lavrov: Russia, Russia doesn’t want any arms race. Russia would not engage in the arms race. We have enough technological means to provide not very expensive answer to the efforts to build missile defense especially specially when the Iranian nuclear issue has been resolved and President Obama in 2009 publicly said that if Iranian nuclear issue is resolved there would be no need for missile defense in Europe. It seems that he was not telling the truth.
Question: Sir, uhm, a fundamental question: is Russia still a superpower, and this will be the last question. Is Russia still a super power, and last year…
Lavrov: We’re modest people. It is up to objective analysts internationally to describe what Russia is.
Question: And you would not use the word superpower in Russia?
Lavrov: we respect ourselves, and we have our own dignity, but we would not brag, you know about what we are. Let the objective analysts decide.
Question: minister thank you very much for being in Conversation With.
Lavrov: Thank you.
Lavrov: Grace under fire personified. He knew he had an intelligent, hostile interviewer to contend with as evidenced by his coughing and restlessness initially. Then he settled down. He takes no guff from this interviewer either who annoyed that after pressing him when he wouldn’t play her way then cut him off..” Let’s move on now” He said it for the record: “.OK, we move on now that you failed to answer my question..” He very politely refuses to be put down. He is a first class quintessential diplomat and unless you are a world class quintessential journalist you will look shabby in comparison. How can you not love and respect people who bring out the best in you? It is like being with a Zen master.
Yes Teranam, Mr Lavrov looks like he has a blue aura in this video. Even his beautiful hair was shining blue. Very holy, in a way.
Men and boys (in this case, a little girl with set up Questions.).
Lavrov is far and away the Number One diplomat in the world. Yang from China is number 2.
Lavrov is so well grounded in his fundamental strengths, if he were a boxer, he’d be Heavyweight Champion.
His mastery of facts, events, history and intentions and his expertise is marvelous to watch, listen to or read.
It is as if he were a General himself, not just a Diplomat with enormous trust invested in him by the Master Putin.
Russians have a treasure and the world has a great spokesperson for sanity and human values.
He is an immovable object when necessary.
Whoever the dizz-o was questioning him had a bad day. The Bear ate the circus mistress. Don’t get in the cage with the Bear.
Beautifully said !!
Don’t have ANYTHING to add :-))
I must agree with the underlying subject of this interview, the premise of coming war. I can hear it, I can see it, I can smell it.
The reality is this war started in August 1914 and has not stopped since, not for one minute. At times the fighting has been muted or has occurred in some far off and little known locale, but it has not stopped. Ever.
It is not for me to intellectually delve in to the reasons and driving forces as to what has caused this century of war, this ongoing war is a fact and has driven world politics and economics for a century. I could care less if the next, and possibly final, act of this century long war is because of some Russian ‘Soviet Mentality’ aberration, a deeply mysterious ‘zionist’ plot, or an American ‘rule the world’ hegemonic desire. What does any of that matter to me or mine? I’ll answer that question with an adamant ‘ZERO’.
For a century we, the ‘ordinary workers and peasants’, the ‘great unwashed masses’, the ‘driving force of the American Dream’, call us what you will, any one of scores of descriptions, have fought and died in our tens of millions. Vast areas of Europe, Middle East and Asia have been laid waste, untold treasure has been spent and lost on the machines of war, and peace, and for what? I’ll answer that question, too. ‘NOTHING’. We are exactly where we were in July and August of 1914 with the exception of we have honed our abilities to kill and destroy to a fine art with an impressive technology. The old empires have fallen and new empires have risen to replace them, the problem being nothing has changed but the names leading the empires.
In the ten years I have been gone from the country that raised, nurtured and educated me I have seen the ideologies of both sides in this war harden. For some reason I attract children, puppies, kittens….and soldiers from both sides depending on where I am. I have no doubts that the soldiers of both sides very strongly believe in both their tasks and their ability to prevail, therefor this war will be to the death. Neither culture will survive the coming opening of actual hostilities, both cultures will have unimaginable destruction and death visited upon them and ‘the world’ as they know it will end. There is absolutely nothing we ordinary people can do to stop this coming active war, it is a given that it will happen and the endless pontifications of the ‘politicians’ and ‘intellectuals’ of both sides do not and will not mean squat in the end.
Do not pine for us, do not worry of us. We, my family and I, well know what is coming and we well know that will happen to the city and region we live in. We go about our daily lives with no fear or trepidation, we don’t jump at every sound, we don’t worry or wonder why that clutch of Sukhoi’s took off at 04:00 on full afterburner and headed west, out over the Sea. It matters but it doesn’t matter at all. We are at peace with our world, what will be will be. Our fates were never in our hands and never will be, just as you reading this never had your fates in your hands. Such is the pity, and the glory, of life.
hi Auslander. that’s a beautiful comment. I feel the same way…sometimes, when I’m really worried about money, I catch myself before saying…”Well, the nuclear war might solve all my problems” but then I think after that…”no, my debt will still be there, even if there’s nuclear war”…isn’t it crazy ?
And I think many people, perhaps not so much on this blog, but those we meet everyday in our errands…think about nuclear war… that it’ll be quick….but unfortunately for them…the fact is that most people survive nuclear war…and have to deal with the problems of the near and further future of their lives….
But I hope, along with Saker, to prevail before war…that’s what I hope. If earth is blown to smithereens then where will the evolution of mankind take place ? Humanity in all its eternal aspects will be crippled terribly.
But perhaps dear Saker will prevail in his efforts and dear Russia will not have to nuke us.
“… this war started in August 1914 and has not stopped since …”
Reminded me of Billy Joel’s big hit We Didn’t Start The Fire since it could be argued the war began in 1492, or at any other previous important historical inflection point. I’d argue that the advent of settled agricultural societies began the war about 12,000 years ago as the modern terror state has it as its mother. Joel captured an essential point in his song–that we all become soldiers at birth regardless of where we’re born and become absorbed into the war: the Fire.
It plainly appears to me that Putin, Lavrov, Xi, and others want to extinguish that Fire, while those leading the Outlaw Empire live for the Fire’s continuance at all cost–they are incapable of any other behavior or thought, as the 2016 election cycle is proving beyond doubt.
I hope some take the time to read this very important item, http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805
Then integrate its dire meaning into fighting the Fire. Personally, I think the Outlaw Empire must be defeated and be in the process of retreating globally to within its own borders by 2020 so all energies can be turned to putting out the Fire consuming our only planet since combating the Outlaw Empire feeds that Fire.
@Outlaw historian: Yes and no. Auslaender is right!
In the past there used to be more or less “souvereign” nation states, declarations of war, peace treaties and the wars ended under international law until new wars were declared.
This changed dramatically in the 20th century, since not even WW1 was formally ended with true peace treaties (rather than the DICTATE of Versailles).
Same with WW2, Korea, Vietnam and all around the globe.
Instead of making peace treaties, the western powers preferred to explicitly PREVENT truely binding true peace treaties from coming into place.
That’s btw. the reason, why Germany still refuses to pay reparations to Greece until this day.
The USA (‘s masters) did this in order to create a permanent military presence all over the world, with something like 1000 bases at the moment (depending on how you count them).
And with the right, to invade whatever country they like, because technically neither WW2 nor WW1 ever ended.
Otherwise you are of course right, but there has always been war somewhere.
But Aulaender’s point is: Since WW1 things are damn different and have a much worse quality now.
All of this is the reasons, that they cannot prove that the Federal Republic of Germany is a souvereign nation. Because in fact it is simply Anglo-occupied territory. But that’s another topic …..
Aloha Martin! Thanks for your reply! I don’t disagree with Auslander; I was trying to expand upon his point and name the one true adversary of humanity, which you seem to agree with. As my moniker suggests, my area of historical research is the Outlaw Empire and everything connected to it–a vast multidiscipline area of study that never ends. Too often, important works escape notice, which is why I often conduct reviews of particular time periods to see what I missed or is new. So, I’m yet again reviewing JFK’s assassination for the first time this decade. At the link is an excerpt from a very important book, JFK and The Unspeakable, specifically the Fortune article, Steel: The Ides of April, neither of which I’d read previously, http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/IdesOfApril.html
Between that editorial and Prouty’s definitive description of the assassination and the workings of the “Secret Team,” it becomes very clear who the agents in favor of ongoing war and worker enslavement are and where they reside. I believe Auslander agrees with Putin’s attempts to make peace without going to war, but knows the Outlaw Empire will never agree to such given the nature of the criminals running the Empire; thus, his readiness for war. The answer to “Are the criminals reasonable?” is what everyone wants to know regarding nuclear war or climate chaos. What’s emerged is a sense that the criminals are mixed with some sane & others bipolar–note they are all criminals, even the semi-sane like Obama.
My great yet slim hope is the Black Lives Matter movement evolves into All Lives Matter with total focus on State Violence at home and especially abroad demanding that every institution supporting such violence be overturned/massively reformed. But even that still doesn’t solve the root of the problem which is Oligarchy and its hold on power. As I’ve said before, entrenched Power doesn’t cede power willingly–particularly those with the sort of Power employed by the Empire with 100% impunity.
Outlaw, in my opinion the Atlanticist global ruling class are monsters, certainly criminal monsters, but primarily psychopathic monsters. Monsters of the ego, id and super-ego. The chasm in humanity lies within the mind, between the destroyers and the nurturers, and the destroyers always win because they destroy the nurturers. To survive the assault, the genocidal onslaught of the destroyers, you must become like them. Wrestle with the monsters and you risk becoming a monster yourself. I do disagree with the description of Uncle Obama as ‘semi-sane’. I think he is a truly vicious psychopath, but doubly dangerous because of his dissembling ‘charm’. I very much fear that the triumph of the psychopaths makes Near Term Extinction for our species almost certain.
You shock me with the fatalism. It is pure and serene, but shocking nonetheless.
I have a slim hope that the overwhelming greed of the warmonger Elites (not the blood-thirsty generals) understand that nuclear war is not survivable. Even if they burrow deep in bunkers that save their greedy asses, all they own and have stolen will be lost. I believe and hope that the baseline of greed and sense of power will overwhelm the psychotic impulse to destroy all.
Now, the generals (those phony warriors in soft chairs and padded bank accounts from the MIC) are the true psychos we are facing.
Though psychotics who drool over using their weapons to destroy seem all-powerful, I believe again in the power of human love, humanity’s impulse to survive, God’s grace to certain humans to lead us away from extinction. In this, I believe in the Russian civilization, Christian love, and even Chinese desire for harmony, and we have two very smart men from these cultures who are determined to make the world safe from the psychos.
I invest my hope with prayers and positive thoughts.
I’m counting on the mass of others who believe the Apocalypse is not yet upon us. I’ve seen what massive mindset can do to change the course of future events.
Though we are stampeded into ruin and destruction, we can rid ourselves of this overarching threat of doom.
Putin’s latest world peace-making diplomacy is extraordinary. Combined with the Eurasian and New Silk Road economic projects, there is great momentum for positivity.
I think the end is not near. Let’s not welcome the end designed by Satan.
Resist the hegemon and Satan.
re: Death be not proud. Was not there some great leader in early Christianity who summed it all up: I fought the good fight? The only issue then becomes what exactly is the good fight for where one is am placed in time and space.
teranam13, that was the Apostle Paul near the end of his life on this side of the veil. The words are found in his 2nd letter to a young church leader named Timothy. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Paul wrote, “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:6-8)
For Christians in this place and time the good fight is the same as it was in Paul’s day, and the foe remains the same.
This is a great time to be alive — I couldn’t be here for the beginning of the world so next best is to be here for the end of it. (No?)
Larchmonter, my friend, do not take what I wrote as fatalism, we are anything but fatalistic. If it comes to war, and we think it will in the end, our city with it’s fine harbors will be a prize, actually this berg was THE prize for all the mess in Ukraine to date, the city and peninsula was the brass ring on the merry-go-round. Unfortunately for them the US failed to understand what the citizens were capable of after the coup in Kiev and to this day US/NATO/EU are biting their elbows in frustration of their failure to get the spoils they fully expected to fall in their laps.
Make no mistake, if it comes to a fight for this city or this peninsula my wife and I will again be side by side on the barricades and she proved in the not too distant past she is as tough as any man. Any ‘victory’ the aggressors may win in this peninsula or this city will make King Pyrrhus proud and what they get will be a smoking ruin in which they will never be safe, they will never be able to drop their guard for a second, they will never be able to enjoy even a swig of water from their canteen in safety. While it will break my heart to fight my old comrades, men I have trained and trained with and fought alongside of lo these some years ago, they must, although they never will, understand one thing. They have never fought Russians. We are Russian.
Bravo. I know the Russians of Crimea have special corpuscles in their bloodstream. And the RF is staffing the bases there with elite forces.
Our deepest thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, your comrades and your nation.
At this era of our common history, we are all Russian, if only as prayer brethren.
From the Belly of the Beast: The local public radio station has its 2016 travel schedule already set up ( Cuba and South Africa) but they were delighted to consider St. Petersberg and Moscow and environs for 2017.
Fox News has everyone in a state of manufactured fear unlike the real possibilities that you are facing of mayhem and destruction. Double think rides on a wave of emotionally based thought form manipulation mainly in the form of the big lie ( Iran has the b-b-b bomb or Isis plans attacks on US malls). It angers me to the bone that the media monsters subject the American people to this bilge. Luckily most of the younger ones don’t believe anything the system says anymore so there is hope except they have little historical understanding and so tend to cynical passivity.
FoxNews = Rupert Murdoch = Satan. Strangely, perhaps worthy of mythopoesis, his mother was a notably fine woman.
What has changed? Political awareness is very low. We could change the course of history-a general strike and refusal to produce war material would be the beginning of the end of all of this nonsense.
OT..I guess my pipe dream is ending…here is a headline from ICH today
This is no surprise, I have read elsewhere (commenters on zerohedge are good source of information) that Trump’s business was not created out of his own pure original and plain entrepreneurship skills. Being in real estate business means Trump must be part of the jewish clique that controls this field in the US. And once you’re the insider I can’t imagine you are against Israel and the devil politics that surrounds that evil state.
…and his children, i hear, are all married to wealthy Jewish families.
I don’t doubt you are probably right.But I just thought I’d add what I’ve heard. He was a “self made man”. The way most of “our” rich are.His father gave him a “measly” 40 million dollars to start with and he, by the “sweat of his brow” ,turned it into a great fortune.A typical US “success” story.It just shows how with hard work (and 40 million dollars of seed money) ,you too can build the “American dream”.I’ve always wondered how my fellow citizens just don’t seem to “get it”.These slobs born with a the “silver spoon in their mouth”,are not examples of how do be a success in business.Certainly many of them increase their wealth greatly.But when you “start the race” with a 40 million dollar head start that doesn’t make you a business genus.
As Balzac said, behind every fortune lies a crime. The ‘self-made’ are buried beneath the head-stone that declares, ‘Here lies a self-made man, who worshiped his Creator’. Trump seems to have left even the world of self-parody behind, but the universe of Jewish influence-no longer possible. Not in the USA.
Hi Mulga Mumblebrain…your last sentence…I don’t understand the end words…
“Trump seems to have left even the world of self-parody behind, but the universe of Jewish influence-no longer possible. Not in the USA.”
About the influence not longer possible..do you mean to be ‘successful’ even with 40 millions in seed money…is not longer possible without being a ‘friend of the Jew’ ?
Don’t be depressed, you’re worrying about a cartoon character. In reality the entire US “election” cycle is a distraction cycle for tv zombies. No matter who is “elected” the US policy will be determined by thinkers, and I have a sneaking suspicion the thinkers are having second and third thoughts at the moment.
‘the US policy will be determined by thinkers’
Would you please name such a thinker who at present has any effect on US policies? (Or is hoped to have one in the future?)
One such name would be James Baker, who replaces Andrew Marshall at the Office of Net Assessment in the Pentagon — I think I read about him here or somewhere nearby. However I am not an expert, I only believe that someone like Donald Trump would be a useful idiot to be eaten for breakfast at the White House, just as Obama has been (credit to him for covering up the grenades thrown by the neocons).
They say, Andrew Marshall nickname is Yoda. Yoda would not be too bad , judging by the movie. But it seems that a lot of blood was spilled recently following a different ‘thinker’, of Gene Sharp’s ilk, all those seemingly manufactured color revolutions
(There was this curious PC Roberts take on Trump … ‘some of the better Roman emperors were rich’ and all that; –but I do not see PC Roberts himself having much impact in the US -and so he seems to be tempted to run with (any) alternative
Whenever you see the Australian Foreign Minister, the emaciated Julie Bishop, the semi-human equivalent of a mummified Egyptian cat, hissing and spitting venom at Russia, remember how she gained the epithet ‘Asbestos Queen’.
Many years ago, when she was a lawyer acting for asbestos mining corporations, and the mesothelioma and asbestos epidemic was just starting, the delightful creature hit upon a clever scheme to advantage her masters. Meso. and lung cancer being swift killers (and frightfully painful)she quickly realised that stalling tactics in cases where workers were suing their former exploiters would be highly efficacious, because six months or so would generally suffice to see the victims dead, and their cases null and void. The victims, their friends, family and allies, generally hold her in very low esteem. Mind you, the ruling Abbott regime is so utterly scabrous, vile and just morally insane, that she is one of the slightly less odious specimens.
Yes. When you put the insane Abbott spitting that he will “shirt front Putin” (for Gods sake, the embarrassment was acute) – and then compare bird brains like these with that lovely interview of Lavrovs, and Mr. Putin’s grace under fire also, you tend to want to hide your Australian passport.
The one suggestion I can offer all international readers here is, whenever you see a report of something said by any one of the current batch of Australian politicians is – look no further, just ignore as the rantings of the insane and move on.
And – remembering the Chifley government of the post war years, the decline in quality is so very marked as to be a good illustration of the West fin de siecle culture. Gone, in every sense.
Which ever way you cut this, the fact remains that the plane was shot down on Ukraine airspace and territory. Why is Russia being blamed? Because they back “the revels”… And? So what?
If Isis blows an airliner out of the sky, is the US, Saudi Arabia or Turkey gonna be universally blamed as responsible? Because you know… they do back ISIS! Everybody knows this, even the dim-witted Daily Mail readers know this.
And nevermind hypothetical scenarios; are those countries being blamed right now for the beheadings and all the other atrocities ISIS commit on a daily basis?
Oh – no they don’t! What ISIS does is ISIS’ fault [now they’re even trying to imply is Assad’s fault *eye-roll*] but what the “revels” do in Ukraine is Russia’s fault [!?]
We need someone like a Chavez (or Gaddafi, he also gave some pretty epic speeches at the UN) he would be saying it like it is. Of course he would be vilified for it, but I don’t think he’d cared.
Sometimes I do wonder if they’re purposely avoiding to find MH370…
First of all, if they were to find it, and it went down by some kind of genuine accident, they will figure out what happened fairly quickly [they did find out fast what happened to that plane that crashed into a mountain not long ago] and that will arouse suspicions regarding why the MH17 investigation is taking so long in comparison.
Secondly; MH370 went missing, roughly at the same time that a violent coup was taking place in Kiev. Up to that point, the Maidan “peaceful” protests were taking up the lion’s share of the international news section on western media. As soon as the plane disappeared, they dropped the Maidan story and began to cover, almost to the point of OCD, the ‘mystery’ of MH370.
How much you wanna bet, the people behind the MH370 disaster are the same ones behind MH17. And smart money says: it ain’t the Russians.
One of the best hypotheses regarding the 911 hijackings used the fact that all planes used the new fly-by-wire technology that could easily be hacked via backdoor and control removed from the pilots. This was immediately denied by saying such technology to fly such drones didn’t exist. But not much later, viola! we have all manner of remote control UAVs–drones–using the same sort of remote fly-by-wire technologies whose existence was denied so shortly ago! Indeed, the tech was allegedly developed by the Zionist Entity, which is likely why the van full of Mossad agents was caught filming the event from a perfect vantage point–they were arrested and quickly released–and danced at the success of their enterprise (all of this is documented by numerous sources). Was MH370 a similar victim to be used as you suggest?
I have no doubt that 911 was Operation Northwoods made operational and for the same purpose. A common component of both 911 and OKC was the destruction of evidence compiled to prosecute high ranking government and high finance people, with OKC being the trial run for media and government coordination on 911. Clinton was president during OKC and during the prep for 911 and has numerous ties to the CIA during his Arkansas governorship regarding the importation of heroin and cocaine at Mena, AR.
If you’ve never read The Secret Team, I suggest you do so, http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ Its author, J. Fletcher Prouty also wrote one of the best reviews of JFK’s assassination, http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/GoD.html
Lastly, this site’s index has an enormous amount of Deep State related investigations and ought to be bookmarked by all, http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/
Unfortunately, too few people know of this site or the info it contains. As becomes clear, the enemy of all humanity is the Outlaw Empire and its toadies. If it didn’t exist, we would have a good chance to mitigate the coming Climate Chaos before it’s too late. However, that isn’t the case, and its existence forces nations unwilling to become its toady to emphasize heavy industrial development to provide for national defense, thus destroying the potential for sustainable development and sequestration of CO2.
thanks Outlaw Historian for this link…I just looked at it briefly but its good to know about such a dedicated historian as Ratcliffe.
Peter Dale Scott is good on the deep politics, worth checking imho.
^ This in connection to my post above… “If Isis blows an airliner out of the sky, is the US, Saudi Arabia or Turkey gonna be universally blamed as responsible? Because you know… they do back ISIS! Everybody knows this, even the dim-witted Daily Mail readers know this.”
…I just came across this:
US Intelligence Confirms US Support for ISIS – By Ron Paul
“A partially-declassified DIA report brings disturbing details about US support for jihadists in Syria [..]”
YouTube link> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2WrwUM2RwI
Point being; evidence from credible sources are pilling-up fast indeed. Evidence concerning the US backing ISIS. You’d have to be, like, a peasant, living in a mud-hut, with no connection to the outside world not to know this at this point. And even then… that’d be a dubious claim to make too, since a lot of those people are so tech-savvy nowadays, despite their limited means. Chances are; they’ve heard all about it before we did…
another one off to ‘do god’s work’.
But that’s not all: in this particular case, Goldman gets bonus influence points because in addition to purchasing the former Danish PM, and by implication, the current PM and his former fin-min protege, and assuring the DONG scandal quietly goes away, Goldman just hired the former head of NATO: from 2009 to 2014 Anders Fogh Rasmussen served as the 12th Secretary General of NATO.
Last minute scurrying & scheming by the money rats to lock things down before TSHTF in biblical magnitude.
Here’s a guy who at least walks the talk, so much so he left USSA for CR
on topic of arms peddler NATO, Greece, & their bloated “defense” spending dictated by same (sacrosanct, cannot be cut!), Europe on war footing vs Russia dictated by NATO,…
listen especially from 19 minute mark for next 7 minutes or so.
LOTS of deep geopolitics he discusses here.
Jim Willie, July 29/2015:
THE COMING GLOBAL RESET (TRUNEWS RADIO 072915)
Anonymous, you are linking the same video for second time with different comments.
Firstly, thank you Saker, for bringing this superb interview. Indeed, what a presentation Sergey Lavrov makes. Such controlled gentility in the truest sense of that much abused and misunderstood term “a gentleman”. His knowledge and firmness make him outstanding indeed, well worthy of being a leader of Mr. Putins’ team.
One thing that was infuriating me though, and this comes often, is the realisation that this mans’ words will be prevented from reaching the majority of people in the “West”. I know the Truth Media movement via the Internet is growing, and fast. I realise that the Mainstream Media has lost it’s currency – which is trust – hugely. Yet they still control millions. I am so sick of hearing of the “annexation” of Crimea by Russia, even from writers from ICH who are generally critically of the actions of the mad insane psychopaths of Washington.
“We” – if I can so group those like ourselves who read and post here – need to find ways now to reaching that wider audience. We need a movement to spread posters inside the enemy territory. We need to have screens in public places replaying the interviews with Mr. Putin and others like Lavrov and Federov.
To Auslander – your comments are wise and serene Sir. I compliment you. I wish I too could find the country of my birth and upbringing. But it is long gone, deliberately destroyed from it’s ages old code of courtesy and seeking truth. Believe me, if you have to fight, you wont be alone.
short observation: this man is a master at what he does, and this doesn’t surprise me since he studied under Gromyko. Russia is very fortunate to have him.
The man reminds me of a kindly special ed teacher patiently going over and over the same material with a mentally deficient student, or doing psychiatric cognitive therapy with a disturbed moron. (I couldn’t do it; I’d likely pull out a syringe and give them a shot of something to put them to sleep, like a veterinarian would.)
Interviewer reminds my of a ‘help line’ where the person knows nothing about the product but reads from a script with programmed questions and answers until they give up and you finally get through to a second level help idiot.
The whole point is not to do an interview, of course, but to mouth dysinformation and talking points of propaganda (public relations), or set traps, while trying to prevent the interviewee from saying anything significant, true, or useful for resolving anything, or informing the audience.
First, I shouldn’t have been drinking coffee when I read ” special ed teacher ” heh
Second, that interviewer I think was a snake or trap door spider in human form ( that is not a compliment ). She’s seems to have become accustomed to lulling subjects to sleep with her mellifluous voice and serpent’s British accent and pouncing upon any tiny inconsistency by an interviewee.
Except this time the viper jumps out and sees itself fastened to the heel of an elephant that simply raises an eyebrow, stomps, and continues to be about its businesses. She couldn’t even slow Lavrov down, let alone derail him.
I enjoyed this.
“her serpent’s British accent”
Beware tarring with a wide brush Anonymous. It could lead you to lots of mis-understanding. Actually, there’s really no such thing as a “British accent”. Except, I suppose, to Americans. If you come from the north of England, you have a Lancashire or Yorkshire accent. (If you youtube the last Q&A session Mr. Putin conducted, you might have had the surreal, at least for me, experience of hearing a farmer speaking Russian with a Lancashire accent !!). If you hail from the far South West counties of Devon and Cornwall it’s different again, as it is from the Home Counties. “Britain” is formed of three separate countries. England, Wales and Scotland. We Celts have our own language and our accents on speaking English are very different.
Because of my upbringing, my own accent is very close to this interviewer, slightly moderated by a faint touch of Australian.
But I’m no “serpent” – and no sympathiser with anything much that the Angles and Saxons who mainly constitute the English – have brought to the International relations.
I am as much a severe critic of the activities of the so called “West” as anyone, and have never really felt at home in it’s culture.
So – be careful on what basis you judge, yes?
This isn’t a dating service. Troll that rubbish elsewhere. Mod ME
If you were a real Celt you would not be describing Cornwall as a county of England!
Tis the land of the Kern ‘Wallahs’, check out Peter Beresford Ellis, Britains most eminent Celtic historian i’m also a fan of Prof Tom Devine.
blue, I can remember when the local Rightwing MSM contained some decent, rational, honest members. Some even vaguely ‘Leftwing’. Today, not a hope. 100% evil, mendacious, vicious, hate and fear-mongering psychopaths in the vast Murdoch cancer and in the talk-back radio hate-o-sphere, and about 80-90% in the rest. Whatever a society is under such a regime, it’s not sane, moral, rational or sustainable.
Meanwhile, Gorlovka suffers a massive attack, and that bloody idiot pushilin supports the bloody useless OSCE, and does SFA about Gorlovka!!! The DNR army needs to URGENTLY sort out the attacks coming from Dzerzhinsk etc, which the bloody useless OSCE refuses to go to, even after I e-mailed them more than once to do so.
It’s amazing what money can buy. A Monty Python skit couldn’t improve on the nonsense surrounding this investigation. A travesty.
Just one simple question, the answer to which was known within days if not hours of the tragedy: Where’s the chemical analysis of the ‘kinetic’ objects?
I take my hat for Mr. Lavrov’s endless patience.
This dull BBC “journalist” interviewing puppet, is “she” actually human? Or an answering machine?
Or has a chip in her (otherwise empty) skull?
How can somebody be so much NLP-programmed?
This “lady” would not enjoy such an “interview” with many others who are not as well-hearted such as Сергей Викторович.
The target audience of western media can be explained in a few words: Some are like this “jouralist” b@#$% robot, but the _larger_ part still notices that something is fishy here (well, except in Poland, Baltics and Western Ukraine, there the ratio is inverse, as I noticed myself).
Question: Mr. Lavrov, welcome to Conversation With. So, what do you have to say to Malaysia’s families who lost loved ones on MH17?
Typical zionazi scum. In my jaded opinion, that intro essentially explains the interviewer is on the same level (very low) as a certain Goebbels freak and should join him in a “loving embrace”, literally.
** “Sooouu… what have you to say to the Malaysian families who
lost loved ones on MH17?”
Has the interviewer lost her bearings, is she insinuating that
Russia is behind the downing of the 777? There were nominally,
discarding naturalizations (Malaysia doesn’t recognize multiple
citizenships) 44 Malaysians on board including 15 crew and two
infants; how possibly could Mr. Lavrov realistically have
comforted the victim’s families, can he bring those Malaysians
back from death?! Who would not offer his condolences?, in fact
Russia had expressed sympathy to the families already. “What
have you to say to the families,” what an idiotic, arrogant and
dishonest *CANULAR* by the interviewer sent out right at the
begin in the hope to spice up the interview.
Were he not the top diplomat he thankfully is (he even tries to
take the Malaysian side as far as he can), Lavrov should have
replied that Malaysia giving away immediately and unconditionally
the black boxes it had received untouched and in good conditions
has (likely: let’s see October… November meanwhile; the odds are
not good) demonstrated to be a foolishness; especially after and
because Malaysia had tested the heat with MH370 already. [See
mini-remarks later: Malaysia could have put some conditions on
it, e.g. decoding to be carried out in Kuala Lumpur, etc.; India,
remember that there was an Air India in the environs, certainly
would have done it.]
“What have you to say to the Malaysian families”? That in order
to prosecute the culprits—and we are not talking of just the fall
guys—Malaysia should better receive an Elizabethan collar (of the
kind of the protective medical devices the veterinarian applies),
and say… not to you, the families of course, which will mourn
your dead forever, but to you the Malaysian citizenry THANK YOU
Russia, the only country out of those who directly or indirectly
have been targeted through MH17 and which hasn’t caved to the
false flag. That should have been said if *lose face* would not
be that cultural (unforgivable) problem and stumbling block is
** The “Sir” that can be repeatedly listened in the interview
might have been okay in a massage parlor or at a ticket booth.
The interviewer should have addressed the chef of the diplomacy
of a foreign state as Your Excellency or Mr. Ambassador instead.
** Mini remarks here: the black boxes aren’t designed to be
tamper-resistant. (Something Malaysia should have known.) Data
can be hacked! When OTOH the same, given data must much all
relevant ATC data, tampering becomes virtually mission
impossible. (Think at, e.g., double-entry accounting and
financial statements.) Now, where were/are those ATC data; how
trustworthy are they now?—this should Malaysia have imagined and
asked before naïvely passing the black boxes to others. Notice
that the *rebels* (and by transitive closure, Russia) were made
responsible immediately, since day one; and that the black boxes
have been received by the Malaysian officers DAYS later, after
the lynching had begun (as by design) and the eventuality of a
false flag and other deceptions had emerged already. (Hence: poor
technical perception + poor diplomatic forecasting capabilities
MH17 downing attributed to the *rebels* (Russia by extension)
SINCE DAY ONE. Notice that **ALL** news agencies, newspapers, TV
and radio stations, etc. are under control and moderation 24/7 at
the different, layered levels: from the managing editor up,
government and secret services inclusive. And I know about what I
am talking having worked in national news agency during my
student years. You may also read: Hacker Detained by FBI after
Tweeting about Airplane Software Vulnerabilities^1 to get an
Errors, blunders, transgressions, inaccuracies demand to be
corrected FAST, depending from the gravity of the glitch;
retractions, justifications and excuses need to follow and be
issued; loss of credibility, prestige, professionalism follow,
till becoming dismissed (and getting a career wiped out).
NEVER could the lower layers (translators, journalists,
anchormen, news editors, etc.) have taken the liberty to write
what they liked or come into their heads. There had to be some
TOP-DOWN mandatory, previous green light to proceed.
Notice that you can’t normally put in place such a coordinated
authorization at this (large) scale so quickly—as it has been the
case. AND THAT the *don’t blame the messenger* (Reuters, AFP, AP,
UPI, DPA, etc. in case you were inclined to play dumb) bluff at
the news level is void exactly as other pleas are null there were
*ignorantia legis non excusat* matters.
In fact, you can easily draw parallels with the 9/11’s criminal
foreknowledge and insider trading at the highest ranks. (And what
has 9/11 been eventually: a false flag or… a false flag?)
1. Hacker Detained by FBI after Tweeting about Airplane Software
(I am NOT a fan of Schneier BTW.)
I guess one of the most irritating things for me is to listen to a presstitute. It makes me want to jump up and down and strangle the s***b** so unfortunately I didn’t listen to the whole thing. Then I tried reading the transcript, I thought that might be easier. Nope. But now I will read the comments…always a fun part of each article posted here at Saker’s.
Draw your money out of your bank and just keep enough to pay your living expenses:
Lavrov is speaking about MH17 from a position of strength. This will become all the more clear in the near future.
Consider what it means when Dutch prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said 7/17/15 that the criminal investigators can’t rule out an air-to-air missile attack. In the first place it should be obvious that a ground-to-air attack and an air-to-air attack are not mutually exclusive alternatives. Also, it should be remembered that the preliminary DSB report made no comment about fighters in the vicinity of MH17. The presence of one or more fighters was neither confirmed nor denied. If Westerbeke, who has access to radar data and satellite data that is not public, can’t rule out an air-to-air missile, then what does that mean? It means that one or more fighters were within the effective range of air-to-air missiles from MH17. If no fighter was present then they could rule out the scenario. If fighters were flying but not within range then they could rule out the scenario. But they can’t rule it out.
Regarding the intelligence that the US has not made public, Westerbeke has seen that evidence and found it lacking. The public knows or should know that as of 10/27/14 the US had not released the requested satellite photos to the investigators.
However, we have Victoria Nuland’s assurance that as of 12/17/14 the US has handed over all of its intelligence to the Dutch investigators.
Two days later Westerbeke made observations about this intelligence. He said regarding the perception that satellite images exist that show the launch of a Buk missile, its trajectory in flight and the explosion beside MH17 that there has been “a misunderstanding.” “There are no satellite in the sense of a movie when you see a rocket going into the air. There is no conclusive evidence in intelligence with the answer to all the questions.”
Why would Westerbeke say that the US does not have conclusive evidence when in fact it does have conclusive evidence? Again, Nuland said that the US is holding back nothing from the Dutch investigators. The investigators have seen it all, and it is not conclusive. On 6/3/15 Marie Harf underscored what Victoria Nuland said. The US has already turned over everything it has that is relevant to the MH17 investigation.
Lavrov in the interview is speaking from a position of strength. Allegations that Russia did it or the rebels did it remain unsupported by hard evidence that is independently verifiable. The US does not have any game changing “secret” evidence about the downing of MH17.
Russia is politely giving the other side all the rope they need to hang themselves with their own incompetence, lies and noncompliance with UNSC Resolution 2166. As Lavrov pointed out in the interview, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The accuser is facing a deadline either to put up or shut up. Time is on Russia’s side.
When did Malaysia become the US’s mouth piece? What happened to the country that convicted Bush and Blair as war criminals for Iraq. The interviewer is a A/Z media mouth piece – who starts off an interview with “So, what do you have to say to Malaysia’s families who lost loved ones on MH17?” I beg your pardon? Is Samatha Power giving her lessons in diplomacy? ;( .Maybe she should ask that question to Ukraine where the plane came down. After MH370 one would think Malaysia would be more careful.
How Lavrov and Putin etc. keep their cool when being interviewed by these imbeciles – they have the patience of Saints. I have questions for her – Why didn’t Malaysia follow the UNSC 2166 and hand over the black boxes to the International aviation authorities? Why did Malaysia decide to join the gang of 4 and not follow 2166 – sold their soul for what? etc. etc. Lavrov really showed her up!