ISTANBUL: Russia-Ukraine talks outcome
Russia has agreed to meet Kiev half-way, agreeing a Putin-Zelensky meeting could be held if a finalized peace treaty pre-approved by foreign ministers from both nations is presented simultaneously, Vladimir Medinsky said.
The official described the Istanbul meeting as “constructive” and said his delegation had received a clearly outlined position on what it sought to achieve.
Russia’s MoD also announced it was drastically reducing its military op in parts of Ukraine, including near the capital, Kiev. The ministry cited “the talks moving into the practical dimension,” as the reason for the change.
Russia’s top negotiator Vladimir Medinsky has disclosed the key points of Istanbul talks:
▪️Ukraine is ready to become a neutral state, unable to own nuclear weapons, with internationally guaranteed independence
▪️Guarantees will not be extended to Donbass region and Russia owned Crimean Peninsula – which would make Kiev formally abandon idea to annex them militarily
▪️Ukraine would be unable to have any military presence – including NATO and Russian forces
▪️Russia does not oppose Ukraine potentially joining the European Union
▪️Kiev is requesting for final treaty to be formalised by Russian and Ukrainian heads of states
Follow the presser here: https://t.me/rtnews/22903
🗣 – 🇹🇷 #Turkey Medinsky (head of the Russian delegation) on the results of the negotiations:
📍Russia is not against Ukraine’s accession to the EU.
📍Russia has received written proposals from Ukraine confirming its desire for a neutral and nuclear-free status.
📍Ukraine renounces the desire to return the Crimea, Donbass and Sevastopol by military means only for the next 15 years.
📍Russia no longer requires the denazification of Ukraine during the negotiations.
📍Kyiv promises to refuse to join military alliances.
📍 In no case are these provisions of the agreement, but only proposals from Kyiv. 👀
What is this crap? Putin has to take Kiev or he’s going to look bad. Real bad
“Russia no longer requires the denazification of Ukraine during the negotiations.”
None of the reports of this that I’ve seen include that point. However, if Ukraine is demanding it, then this is a non-starter for Russia.
In fact, almost all of this is a non-starter for Russia. Ukraine wants “security guarantees” from a bunch of states including the US, Canada, and Poland. “That Ain’t Gonna Happen”, obviously.
Understand that all of this is Kiev’s “wishlist” – and Russia will certainly refuse almost all the points except neutrality and non-NATO. So this is just another attempt by Kiev to stall, and Russia will go along with the negotiations while continuing the operation.
If this is “only a wishlist” by the Bandera regime then Lavrov should respond forcefully condemning this unserious and mockery of a negotiation settlement.
Russia will fight until kiev does what Russia demanded. There will be no watering down. zelstein’s wish list is only that.
You are absolutely right, if Putin does not finish what he started, the snake remains in the bosom of Russia, and that snake will be even more poisonous again. Putin must finish what he started, he stops fighting because of negotiations and Azov is still killing civilians in Donbas, captured Russians are crippled and brutally tortured, God forbid the victims are useless if a total victory is not achieved, and then let him negotiate, this is terribly futile. However, Putin does not have that structure of victory, like Stalin, he won and then negotiated, and everything ended as he-Stalin wanted, this is not even close to that.
Am I the only one with the fantasy that Moscow is merely patronizing the negotiations to simply convince Z and his wolf pack to surface for a Putin-Z summit so Moscow can KILL HIM?
Lisbon Agreement was a waste of time
Minsk Agreement was a waster of time
JCPOA was a waste of time
then NATO renames itself as the “EU defense army”. “No NATO in Ukraine, NATO doesn’t exist anymore; only us innocent defenders.” And, voila!
I think most people is mistaking what Russia says:
Those points are what Ukraine is ready to give now, Russia says that it is a positive advance.
It does not say that they agree with the points.
Nobody with brain should believe that Russia will agree with that bullshit.
Dombass will be an independent part of Russia, protected by their nuclear umbrella.
I imagine you’re right. Otherwise this would be a clear concession of defeat.
kiev will need to agree to Russia’s terms, or no end to fighting. It is ukraine that is losing here. So they better hurry up before they lose it all.
Absolutely this is treasonous crap!
Anyone accepting those condition will feel bad, very bad soon … it is 4th and a half column job!
Hey 6th columnist, better bad deal than good war.
You want Russia take Kiev and therefore Russia must take Kiev, even if it cost 10000 russian live and 100 000 civilian death? And for what result?
Why Kiev should be so important ?
Donbass and Crimea are officialy free.
Ukrain become nutral, without mass weapon, without stranger troops or bases.
It’s not enough for you ?
It’s enormous. If Zelensky is not hanged by nazis or killed by US proxy, he deserve a peace nobel price.
This deal is the best Russia can reach.
The second Russia leaves off they start pissing upon the treaty (remember Minsk 1 & 2?), the minute Russia is out they cut off water to Crimea and start bombing Donbass again if only from some slightly farther point.
Not mentionning what nazis will do to Russian speaking civilians in Kherson, Nikolaev and the rest of Ukraine: they will be mad , inhumane and sadistic.
Exactly,that is how I see it too. Anything that leaves the nazis in power is a defeat,period. Maybe never again will Russia have the chance to bring Ukraine (in one piece,or several pieces) back into the Russian world. If the Russian hating regime stays in power,they will consolidate their Russia hatred in Ukraine. And the West will rearm their stooge,and maybe go further. Those that foolishly were beginning to side with Russia in Ukraine will be repressed.And the murderers of Russians will be considered as heroes in Ukraine.Ask Iran how the removal of sanctions has worked for them. The West will not turn the page and go back to 2012 with Russia. There is no reason they should now.And even worse,Ukraine isn’t even going to officially agree to recognize Crimea as Russian,and Donbass as free.These negotiations are nothing more than a clusterf..k of the highest order.
sorry? the best russia can reach? Wow smooth talk starting
This was a sink-or-swim proposal and environment in Turkey
These terms were good enough on February 26th, afterwards they no longer apply.
Maria Zhakharova said : “Ukraine lost its chance for independent statehood”.
It now needs to be partitioned, the East and South to Russia.
North West to Belarus,
Rump center plains for some demilitarized rump state under supervision and close monitoring from CSTO (permanent troops).
Russia only need to siege Kiev for 2 month and they will come out with a white flag ready to surrender.
It docent need to take one Russian soldiers live or 100.000 civilian lives.
Kiev is important because it is the Capital of Ukraine, and the place where the Ukrainian civil war war initiated by the Western powers. Kiev must fall on the sword it sharpened it self.
The NAZI defeat of WWII apparently wasn’t enough. Today we see the rise of Neo-NAZIs. This time we must finish the job Europe left undone after WWII, or within 3 generations the world will face the same fate once again.
Zelensky deserves to be hanged for his betrayal of the Ukrainian people. For leading the Nation into a devastating civil war and now a total and utter defeat, like Hitler did for Germany during WWII. No wonder Hitler fled to Argentina in the last days of WWII. Zelensky has already bought i mansion in Florida, to flee to when Ukraine surrenders.
Russia, the Russian people, the whole world and even the Ukrainian people deserves more justice that this proposal suggest.
Great Post. Agree with everything you said.
That “deal” is shit and no deal at all. Finish the job Putin.
“No wonder Hitler fled to Argentina in the last days of WWII.”
The Soviets did an autopsy, matched the teeth to dental records. His pilot was wounded and captured in Berlin a day or two later. Not counting Goebbels and Bormann, at least four Germans saw Hitler’s dead body and lived for many years after the war. The late Mexican author Salvador Borrego, who sympathized with Hitler, wrote that Stalin used a piece of Hitler’s skull as an ashtray for some time. His chauffeur carried the dead Eva Brown in his arms outside; he lived until 1975. If you look for a conspiracy regarding his death, there is one and it pertains to the manner of his death.
If they accept this Minsk 3, then all the effort and fallen soldiers were in vain.
You could have gotten an empty “lmao, we won’t attack donbass anymore, promise xD”
without the whole war. We all know that this is worth nothing.
Everything that is only a promise by the Banderas is worthless.
Russian needs to annex everything east of the river.
“Why Kiev should be so important ?”
It is not. What is important are Aegis ashore in combination with SM3 and Dark Eagle.
Ukraine happens to be in between.
Because it is LIES.
You can not trust SNAKES. Withoit first removing all their venomcapability.
agreeing to a fake agreement is selfsuicide for russia.
It will only buy the west and westujraine more time to prepare to hit russia much worse.
The job of demilitarize, denazify, removing westujraine indoxtrinationprograms, removing anti-russian programs.
And sadly also needs to divide ujraine territory into at least 2 countries.
The old westujraine needs to be cut out from ukraine. It is polishlithuanian ethnicity that has been a very cancerlike problem for ujraine for almost 200 years.
So finish securing all east of kiev. Then negotiate.
And make sure to cut westujraine away from ukraine as the final product.
And tb fair, bombing lviv to smitherins is not uncalled for. That place needs to be refreshed more than most cities in any of the us wars around the globe.
And without rest of ujraine, the EU do not want the rabiat neonaziproblems joining EU.
They only wanted ukraine because it was on russias litterary border.
Kiev is the Least of Russias worries and I don’t think they want to take it. If Ukraine is to exist as a state, Kiev has to be kept as its capitol.
This was not an operation to annex Ukrainian territory.
On a side not, what happened to the Russian army being defeated in 10 days (2 days ago)?
Half of that is Ukraine’s wish list only.
Denazification isn’t sth. Ukraine can promise anyway even if it wanted to – either Russia carries that out or nobody does.
Now, let’s step back for a second and review the chessboard:
1) These negotiations are – from both sides – very tactical in nature and correspond largely to the war on the ground. The Uki administration frequently talked about an agreement in May at the earliest. they play for time, hoping that Russia will collapse economically before that or that Russians will turn against the Kremlin. Both hopes don’t seem to materialize at all right now.
2) I am still scratching my head how many pro-Russian people here still haven’t understood that Russia faces an enemy that is OUTNUMBERING Russia’s military in Ukraine by 2:1 (or 3:1 if Ukraine fully mobilizes additional reserves). And on top of it, Ukraine has the defending advantage. As per conventional military rules of thumb, Russia needs to outnumber Ukrainian forces 3:1 to 5:1 and/or have a commensurate firepower advantage to make up for it. Caveat: Firepower quickly becomes less of an advantage in close combat and urban warfare, especially, when your goal is to not destroy and kill everything (unlike what the US is usually doing).
3) The implication is that Russia cannot win this war unless it creates encirclements/local numerical advantages and deals with one part of the Uki forces at the time and then move to the next.
4) Most will agree (myself included) that this special military operation isn’t going to plan, meaning more losses than expected and less/slower progress than planned.
5) however, we have to see that in the context of 2) and 3). Russia invaded on several axes to cut off Ukrainian forces from each other, block any planned offensive in #donbass, pin down Ukrainians in various isolated parts while, IMPORTANTLY, keeping lots of different options open for Russia to pursue depending on how things evolve on the ground.
6) It seems the Russian high command decided that NOW is the time to focus entirely on the Ukrainian forces east of the Dnepr. Note that there are LOTs of Uki forces in the Western part and in/around Kiev which won’t be able to do anything about that! Look at it this way: Russian forces have the option to either attack Kiev or push towards the East. They have the option to either attack Odessa or push towards Donbass. the Ukrainians can only defend Kiev or Odessa. Ukrainians did blow up lots of bridges over the Dnepr to prevent Russians crossing them from the east. But the flipside is, Ukrainian forces from Kiev now can’t come to the rescue of Ukrainian forces east of the Dnepr.
7) Russian forces were very busy over the past week to destroy mainly fuel and ammunition storages of Ukraine. Russian troops may face logistical challenges of HOW to get fuel to certain battlefields. Ukraine faces the issue of from where to get any fuel at all!
8) without resupply of fuel and ammo, even elite , battle hardened armed formations quickly lose combat power and capabilities. A Ukrainian escape from the not-yet closed cauldron in Donbass is still possible but so what? With only parts of their vehicles and ammo. And to where? getting encircled at the 3rd line of defence near Dnepr or at the 1st line of defence in Donbass – pick your poison!
9) As for Kiev: maybe there was indeed some crazy plan to take Kiev with Chechen forces. I don’t know, but it certainly didn’t happen. Imho, taking Kiev isn’t needed AT ALL! Destroy/disarm the Ukrainian forces in Donbass and Ukraine faces inevitable military defeat.
10) This is still far from a done deal! never underestimate the Ukrainians to try to break encirclement or encircle Russian forces. This is still very risky, and I tend to agree with Strelkov insofar as the numerical strength of the Russian forces may be insufficient for the task. Apart from that I must say that Strelkov has become so negative and utterly attacking towards the Kremlin that I wonder if he is still objective in his judgements or clouded by some other , very personal agendas.
Ukraine can brag all day long about “recapturing” some settlements near Kiev – it’s totally meaningless from a military point of view. What matters now is the entire front east of the Dnepr. And even Kharkov and Odessa need not be taken for now, either, if at all! It’s totally sufficient that significant Ukrainian forces are pinned down there, unable to come to anyone’s rescue.
Bottom line: This was always to be either a very quick victory (taking Kiev in a heartbeat) or a very long, painful step-by-step affair. It’s now definitely the latter. Kind of a Karpov type of chess battle: Many moves during which you accumulate small advantages until ultimately these add up to a winning position across the board.
Now, this could still unravel and go wrong! don’t underestimate the Ukrainians and the perfidy of the West and frankly, the Russian negotiating team around that fool and crook Medinsky had me worried from day one. they may settle for another Minsk-iteration. What speaks against that is the price paid already and the West’s stupidity as the West is unlikely to lift any sanctions even in such a case. So the kremlin now has every incentive to go the whole mile and not settle for some bs pseudo-victory.
My heart and my wishes go out to all Russian families, soldiers as well as all Ukrainian civilians and forcefully conscripted who suffer a great deal these days for sth that they hardly could do anything about!
Air raid alert on almost the entire territory of Ukraine. 20.04 CET
Nah – it would only further expose how clueless the west is.
I see your point. However, this is much better for Russia than what it had on February 23, and it’s really no bad, except that no doubt Moscow would add to this list its demand of punishment for war crimes committed.
“Russia is not against Ukraine’s accession to the EU.”
Not bad. It helps Russia’s image internationally, as it looks like a pragmatic and flexible great power.
“Russia has received written proposals from Ukraine confirming its desire for a neutral and nuclear-free status.”
A great triumph in all cases.
“Ukraine renounces the desire to return the Crimea, Donbass and Sevastopol by military means only for the next 15 years.”
By then the Donbass will be part of Russia, so it’s only a useful concession for Russia.
“Russia no longer requires the denazification of Ukraine during the negotiations.”
Coupled with punishment for war crimes committed, this can be good. “Denazification” makes sense in the context of removing the present government and may be unclear otherwise. Not hard to agree that the Jew Zelensky is not a Nazi. The Ukrainian government would likely fall on its own because of what it lost for Ukraine. Another useful concession.
“Kyiv promises to refuse to join military alliances.”
The final agreement would include Russia’s own input. As an alternative to taking all of Ukraine, this looks good! It may be the best for Russia. It recovers Donbass and Crimea; it neutralizes Ukraine; it avoids immersion into Ukraine’s problems. These would be substantive “special military operation” outcomes.
Looks like the Russian government prefers an outcome like this, but we know that they also have their eye on all of Ukraine as an alternative.
You are ASSUMING that the kievcoup government lipservicing to russia now is actually honest.
Anyone who know westukraine mentality will know that they will never honour these things in the long run. So basicly only giving them even more years to prepare and indoctrinate the population to HATE everything russian.
And for anyone who UNDERSTAND the west will now that the west will just see this as the russian as weak. Thinking that they almost had russian in a bag, so next time they will just up the factors so they can destroy russia once and for all.
The socalled peacetalk is extremly dangerous tactic.
Russians are historic very nauve about the west. They repeatedly get screwed over by the west.
They should know better by experience.
But when russians are not ruled by satanworshippers, they will NEVER understand HOW bloodthirsty the western elite is on DESTROYING everything russian.
They want to end any such competition.
And when russia is destroyed, then they will get free rains to bully up on china alone.
Taking Kiev would be too costly, he won’t do that unless it becomes an absolute necessity. And the PR consequences don’t matter. If he takes Kiev, NATO will double down on their war criminal nonsense, if he doesn’t they’ll call Russia weak. There is no winning position against the MSM.
A lot has been said in response to the negotiations toward a treaty of sorts between Ukraine and Russia but none so strident or thought provoking than this analysis by Dr Paul Craig Roberts.
What about Odessa in this context?
Thanks a lot.
Hopefully it’s liberated very soon! If the historical Russian city of Odessa is not liberated it would be devastating.
I think this negotiation are pure theater.
Obviously this supposed terms are absolutely negative for Russia and it does not have any sense that Russia agree with them.
Ukraine renounce to attack Crimea and dombass during 15 years?
UE yes, NATO not?
Absurd and no sense.
Russia will not stop without annexing all East Ukraine and Odessa, cutting the access to the sea to the remaining Ukro Nazis.
Then let them be part of European Union and whatever they want. It will be a good punishment for them to be under Brussels dictatorship.
But strategically for Russia the annexation of East and South Ukraine is vital, once they have already receive all sanctions.
Every person who analyse this can see that is winning time for whatever reason
Austria has Neutrality and an EU yes, NATO no.
So they are part of all the sanctions of the EU but aren’t part of any military involvement or weapon shipments and don’t offer their country for that either.
So it did work… for 60 years now.
The Ukraine will never be allowed in the EU anyway. It’s way too poor and it’s more useful as what it is now: A child trafficking heaven for Western Oligarchs.
After they see how things ended up for Azov in Mariupol, defenders of Odessa will be much more cooperative in negotiations.
Not exactly. No sure agreements had been agreed upon. Only suggestions. Denazification had not yet finished, neither is the demilitarization of Ukraine. Fighting is still going on, only the tactics have changed. It’d be quite an interesting April.
Russia does not want to put Kiev at great military risk – Medinsky
Kadyrov about the special operation of the Russian Federation in Ukraine: we must complete what we started, do not stop, we must go to Kiev and take it.
Translation of Medinsky’s words: surrender Kyiv peacefully
Once again: Medinsky simply uttered — for some unspoken reason — the desires of Kiev, but this does not correlate with the position of Russia in any way. Medinsky himself confirmed that he simply spoke out all the wishes of Kiev, which obviously, are unacceptable and will not be accepted by Russia.
We can close the topic of the Istanbul talks now.
Time to bring in Syrian and Iranian Peace-keeping forces.
No mention of DENAZIFICATION??
I think a huge chunk of the Nazi element has already been taken care of in Mariopol, and the rest could be handled with tribunals for war crimes, I understand Russia has detailed information on all the exact people involved and exactly what they did.
Then why do attacks on Donetsk continue? Why is this still happening?? I thought the Russians said the first part of the war is over and that Dombass was mostly cleared of the Ukrainian army.
Scott Ritter lays out an intelligent analysis of RF strategy on Twitter.
Lugansk is almost liberated but Donetsk has a long ways to go and the DNR/LPR cannot do it on their own.
I guess you haven’t seen the videos of the Nazis in Odessa, Kiev, Nikolaiv, Kharkov, and Dnepropetrovsk…if Russia abandons the Russian people in those regions to be ruled by Zelensky and the Banderites this would be a massive blunder.
I hope no “war crimes tribunal” will be involved. They are always a ridiculous political farce, from Nurnberg to Den Hag. If Russians will do trials, they’ll disappoint me. Guns are fair, trials are not.
If Azov wiped out, perhaps moot? But Social Nationalists.
There are many nazis apart from Azov, including Aidar, Donbass Battalion (already wiped out), S14, Pravii Sektor (much more active in Banderastan around Lvov), etc. To erase these at least the entire Eastern half of the country has to be taken and the western half eradicated as a military capable entity.
Anything less than a total Russian victory will be spun by the Ukranazi coup regime and its worshippers as a Russian defeat. Ukranazistan has to be made to grovel or else Russia might as well have not begun the operation, except for defending the Donbass, at all.
Finally somebody gets it. Russia needs to pound Ukraine into submission and dictate terms. That’s how you conduct a war.
The problem is not only Azov, but the Azov philosophy has been ingrained in Ukrainian society for many years. It is in the education system, it is in the leadership, a leadership that will remain. It is not enough to kill off Azov members if their ideas remain popular with a large number of Ukrainians and Ukrainian leadership. A law must be insisted upon such as the law in Japan regarding the Yakuza.
The Japanese law makes it illegal for any member of Yakuza to get any type of government benefits. Yakuza cannot get a drivers license, cannot open a bank account, cannot rent an apartment/house, cannot buy a home, cannot get employment, cannot do any business with regular members of society. Any member of society or business who does business with Yakuza can be severely punished. Yakuza members or former members must participate and complete in a program that lasts several years in order to become a full member of society again. This sort of law would work well in de-natzifying Ukraine.
Joe, your proposal is dangerous. That would open the gates for all kind of future injustice and further resentment. A better solution would be an explicitly anti-nazi new constitution for Ukraine, without messing up too much with ordinary laws.
Joe, Iskander into house is way beyond of not being able to get loan for buying one
. Or driving licence.
It is also harsh, but much more efficient in dealing with “ingrained philosophies”. Realization that your country is destroyed because of someone’s “philosophy” has strong sobering effect.
When reality bites, that’s point where propaganda techniques collapses.
Those are the proposals of Ukraine, not that Eussia is agreeing.
I saw what Medinski says and people is misunderstanding him.
He only told that is a positive advance of Ukraine position, not that they agree.
They only stop advancing in Kiev, not in the south
Yanks will never agree to this…
I’ve already seen “news” quoting Blinken as saying the US isn’t buying it
“Yanks will never agree to this…”
You appear to believe that the Russian already have.
Now perhaps for the next sentences and paragraphs you should perhaps sit down, as it may come as a surprise.
Those who think they are puppet masters are “advising” various people excluding the Russians and share the same illusion that you do.
In December 2021 the People’s Republic of China and the Russian Federation sent notices of intent to “The United States of America” and its appendix NATO, which the receivers evangelised as ultimata, since in some regard to ultimata the receivers have some choice in the matter, which was widely accepted in some quarters who assigned the significance to “The United States of America” that some others do not.
In late February 2022 the People’s Republic of China and the Russian Federation, in association with others began to implement their notices of intent.
After some peering in the dress up box, the would be puppets decided that Mr. Brzezinski’s self-attribution in regard to Afghanistan seemed to work, so why not see if these clothes still fit, and created the story that “The United States of America” suckered The Russian Federation into invading Ukraine ( not implementing their notices of intent) and just to be extra careful whispered to Mr. Biden and his associates something akin to:
“Confirm Why the US Needed This War
If others try to hold you back because they are frightened or not, resort to if only these others had let me, I would have done it (Bullying manual 101.1 Chapter 1 Hold my jacket).
If others join you in the children’s crusade, resort to we fought well, but the others let us down – in these matters they turned out to be children (Bullying manual collective edition 101.2)”
Some are so wedded to copybooks, that they fail to rembember that others could have copies of their copybooks: that other can understand their reliances and margins of safety as a function of facility, being deemed as implausable belief.
“Some are so wedded to copybooks..”
Some potential tourists.
It’s good to know the Russian point of view on this since denazification is not addressed and demilitarisation is partially touched.
I understand that the weapons issue would be handled in the agreement, per zerohedge article, one of the points was:
“We have received written proposals from Ukraine confirming their readiness for a neutral, non-aligned and non-nuclear status, along with a refusal to produce and deploy all types of weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and bacteriological ones, and a ban on the presence of foreign military bases and foreign troops on the territory of the country”, Medinsky said.”
Ukraine has less chance of joining the EU then Lebanon and Lebanon can’t even apply.
Ranko…are you OK??…Lebanon is in the Middle East not in the Europe !!!
That is the point to show how far is Ukraine from EU membership,ever heard of irony?By the way i wrote that Lebanon can’t even apply.I didn’t know i have to explain jokes.
What makes you think they can’t rush or shoehorn Ukraine into the EU like they did Bulgaria and Romania?
I hope the Russians don’t make a mistake here and retreat their forces from the line of contact
They paid a heafty price for this
And now suddenly their is a peace treaty and the US Masters agree?
Can’t believe that it will be that simple and smoothly
This smells very shity
But ok let’s see what comes out of it
Russia and Putin made DPR and LPR back off last time and let the Ukies out of the cauldron. The Azov scum repaid this by later assasinating Govi, Motorola and DPR PM Alexander Zakarchenko. They were all good and honorable men. The shelling of Donetsk started again after that. Kolomoisky, Pinchuk and the other oligarchs-warlords need to have their TV networks and assets seized and they need to be tried for crimes against humanity.
These terms are treasonous!
If Russia is seen (by the West) as retreating, having to compromise, or even, as one western expert said: “Putin will have to stand with hat in hand”, then the next step might be: “Russia is losing everything, now Putin will resort to chemical weapons.”
Is this the “final” trap, with a false flag coming?
Donetsk and Lughansk plus Crimea need to be independent or part of Russia. No Azov batallions or Far Right Sector. No bioweapons labs. Kolomoisky, Pinchuk and the other oligarch-warlords need to have their assets seized including TV stations. Seize their wealth to rebuild Donbas and other areas. Russia had DPR and LNR back off before and do the Minsk Agreement which was a waste of time and lives. Aso np money laundering “aid” with the USA.
Both your comments are spot on 👍
Everyone should close read the long interview with Lavrov posted here at Saker. It lays out in detail the Russian point of view.
Lavrov has always been a British spy.
As long as Russia is unfortunate to have a unelectable FM like Lavrov with tenure of more than two decades, then Russia is bound to backstab her allies and let an almost militarily won situation turn Quagmire with useless long talk. Let us not forget that diplomacy has role to avert military action and once military action starts, it should not be hampered by diplomatic talk until mitary victory is achieved.
Lavrov cuts into military achievement of Russia by interfering with his useless talk none of which has been successful in last 20 years.
Lavrov is the reason Russia forced Donbass for ceasefire in Debaltsevo CAULDRON (in LDNR) in February 2015 and in Syria in Feb. 2016 when pro russian side was winning.
What really sucks in DPR and LPR wanted to reoslve this sh*t years ago just before Minsky Agreement. They had them in a Cauldron and were told to back off. Poor Givi, Motorola and Alexander Zakachenko were later assisinated by this Azov Ukie scum.
Ukraine is economically such a disaster that joining to EU can’t be possible until perhaps 2035-40. We can’t be sure now can even EU stay alive until 2040.
Ukraine will never join the EU not because of Russia but because of the EU because the EU will never let them in.
That’s if EU only considered the econonomic aspect. Ukraine is a political subject. If you have seen what and how European states acted regards to Ukraine, you shouldn’t think economics comes anywhere near first. We can’t be sure about anything for the future. That’s not a reason to feel comfortable and complacent.
The EU does not want them, never have, never will. Dangling the EU carrot is just a way to keep them away from being friends with Russia and to continue being a thorn in Russia’s side.
You overlook that Romania and Bulgaria got into the EU despite their poor economies and problems. The EU could do it with Ukraine as a way to use it against Russia (and with U.S. support). EU only makes it hard for countries they want to get more things out of, like Serbia. They continue to make Serbia do things EU wants, and to the detriment of Serbia, over the false promise of joining the EU. Since the EU can get what it want from Serbia without Serbia being in the EU, they will keep stringing it along indefinitely (for decades already). But with Ukraine they have other agendas. I think Romania and Bulgaria were allowed into EU as a reward for them cooperating with NATO’s attack on Serbia (allowed their air spaces to be used) as well as later blocking the Russians from flying to help their troops in Pristina (who had entered (from BiH (Russian SFOR peacekeepers) through Serbia) before NATO could arrive.) So Russia wasn’t even able to act independently there and help Serbs.
Is denazification and demilitarization not in Russias agenda anymore?
It is different the recognition of the republics and Crimea as part of Russia, than guarantees to not seek the recover them by military means. This would be a mistake to accept, there has to be full recognition, and it has to be in the Constitution delimiting the territory of Ukraine geographically.
Russia can not accept external guarantees from the West, this could present a lot of problems in the future, specially if Ukraine is allowed to remain with it’s Russophobia and Right wing sectors.
Allowing Ukraine to join the EU when it is now also a military block, is stupidity.
Russia accepting, less than a capitulation from Ukraine will be perceived as a sign of weakness by everyone, including its Allies, and internally will be catastrophic, Kadyrov will not like this one bit, this will strengthen the 5th column to the extreme. Rusophobia in the world will increase, people that defends Russia will stop defending Russia. Economically it will be catastrophic, unless ALL sanctions pre 2014 are taken away,EU will make demands for gas contracts and China will play with this strategically to squeeze Russia.
Just holding this talks is costly for Russia, much more than not having them.
“Rusophobia in the world will increase, people that defends Russia will stop defending Russia.”
These terms are treasonous, any acceptance of them might bring responsible people before a firing squad sooner than one think.
Absolutely. And I have a distinct feeling firing squads and the Lubyanka basement should be brought back rather sooner than later. Stalin was right. Unfortunately.
Stalin knew who he was dealing with in negotations. Molotov was a respected negotiator. Medinsky looking like he needed to get out of there and have a drink is not who you want handling diplomacy.
I beleive you misunderstood my point.
I was not referring to Russians, but those that are Russians and that are making an impact in the PSYOP sphere.
People here including Andrei, were talking about how Russia was losing in the PSYOP battlefield, I have always argued that, even it may appear that way, because some sensationalist battles were being lost, Russia was going to win the war. Finally the tides have been turning, and, Russia is winning some noticeable battles. People are changing their mind and you can see, how Western PSYOP narrative is being changed, from Putin the most evil and Russian army the worst, zelenesky a hero of the people and his army righteous fighters for democracy, to Putin still very evil, but Ukranian armed forces, not very nice, but because they have to be devils since they are fighting the armies of Mordor. When the US PSYOP narrative begins to adapt is because, people are not running In so much as they did. The reason for this is that, the West and Ukraine do not present any evidence, but there is plenty of evidence of what the AFU and UNG are doing with their civilians.
Now many people are understanding Russias cause, others already understood it, but are not so much in favor of Russia as much as they are against the West, these are the people, that this latest talks and mixed messages coming from the MoD and the diplomatic delegation, are more affected and lose faith in what they see as the role in Russia in the fight against the West. These are the people that will more likely stop fighting then PSYOP front because of feeling disillusioned.
We can argue what impact the people mentioned above have, or if it matters with Operation Z. I could argue it does because it bring pressure on their politicians and media, and we have seen very recently that efforts to keep arming Ukraine have been cooling off and the media unofficial spokespersons are dialing down the rhetoric of arming Ukraine, preparing for narrative shift.
I believe Russia has rondo better in this area, because these Allie’s and others like them do not have the same investment in this fight, as let’s say Russians or much less so than people from Donetsk.
It’s a very fine line to tread. Reading this, it seems clear Ukraine’s situation is bad and that they are ready to a lot more compromises than before, this is a good sign. However there’s a lot for Russia on the line. They should avoid giving the impression of squandering all the sacrifices. “Une paix boiteuse”, a half-hearted peace, is how we would say it in French, and that’s what Russia should avoid at all costs as it would probably cause an internal uproar. It should also pay attention to soldiers’ morale, how can you motivate troops if you let it appear as if peace was at hand ?
What previous negotiations have shown us is that there can be a lot of twists and turns, perhaps some Ukronazi goon will simply walk back the propositions and we’ll be back to square one. However I feel that the fall of Mariupol acts either as a turning point or a liberation for the Zelensky gang, they don’t feel Azov breathing up their neck so heavily now, Azov has been cut down to size so their hands are freer.
Personally my conviction is that the eastern armies of the AFU have to be definitively crushed. If a peace treaty is signed before, it will create a revanchist movement in Ukraine, exactly like in 1918 with Germany. Russia has no choice, if they don’t want to have to restart a conflict in 1 or 2 years they have to decisively break the eastern front.
” If a peace treaty is signed before, it will create a revanchist movement in Ukraine, exactly like in 1918″
To focus on bigger things sometimes obfuscates smaller things of greater relevance.
In this case focus on “Germany” obfuscates the relevances of the Second Polish Republic including its minority policies, and to lesser degrees in descending order Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
The document/discussions is/are informed by “The Treaty of Versailles” with a similar purpose namely “The United States of America” attempting to use conflicting ethnic nationalisms/minorities to undermine and fashion Eastern European/Eurasian development.
This was the case with the “independence” of the Second Polish Republic in 1919 with aid of civil war, including its minority policies, and to lesser degrees in descending order Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
The likely provenance of the document/discussion is through Mr. Strauss and his disciples via Mr. Brzezinsky, and in parallel but remotely connected through emigre populations, the updated observations of Dmytro Dontsov which were contextualised and published by Harvard College in 2021.
The author was Trevor Erlacher and the title of the book Ukrainian Nationalism in the Age of Extremes ISBN 9780674250932 – The Harvard Ukrainian Research Institute being established in 1973 – when the profile of Ukraine – primarily the former Polish Galicia and Wolyn – as a possible vector of dissolution of “The Soviet Union” was raised by some who became part of the present networks that some find unbeleivable – namely Jewish people, the State of Israel, and Ukranian ethnic nationism including in the Banderist spectrum.
The main, but not the only vector of attempts to implement such hopes in “The United States of America” which includes “intelligence services” primarily CIA, MI6 and BND with a sprinkling of Mossad, is the State Department, and in respect of Ukraine, the assets developed by those cited as constituting part of the networks which are “The United States of America”.
The present hopes are informed by the notions of earlier versions of the present participants incursions and pre-prepared stay behind assets in/into part of the former Polish Second Republic, Polish AK, The Forest Brotherhood, and OUN/OUP in Ukraine from 1944 until circa 1954 – the “romanticism/strategic illiteracy” of the Polish AK facilitating the premature ejaculation known as the Warsaw Uprising from August 1944, in emulation of SOE/The Czech Republic in Exile Government’s strategic illiteracy in assassinating Mr. Heydrich.
Perhaps unlike some others, you can accept that the Security Council of the Russian Federation is not wholly strategically illiterate, although the Politburo of Mr. Brezhnev was amazingly so, which encouraged/required some people to cooperate from 1969 onwards to facilitate the ongoing process of the transcendence of “The Soviet Union” by the Russian Federation.
And I suspect further denazification will occur through courts in Donbass trying those guilty of war crimes, which will kind of clean up that mess in Ukraine.
So that means: 1) Neutrality 2) demilitarization 3) Denazification 4) recognition of Donbass 5) recognition of Crimea as Russian
Sounds kind of like Russia won?
Now will be interesting to see how the whole sanctions game plays out.
Europe has shown its true colors, and will have to live with that shame and the consequences of their actions.
Evidently Hal Turner was correct about the gold linking to the Rouble. Just read about it a short while ago on Zerohedge. Given that Europe has until the 31st March to pay or the gas gets shut off, I’m wondering whether to get a few solar panels.
May there indeed be a signed peace. Most of the world will sigh a collective sigh of relief. And furthermore, hopefully the Ukrainians will still have time to plant their wheat now.
This is great news. War is hell! May the Good Lord have mercy on us all and bring peace!
As others have pointed out, there remain several key things to be worked out, including the war crimes by Ukrainian nationalists, Ukrainian and international oligarchs, and the nature of the disarmament guarantees. US MSM have begun criticism of Biden and exposure of his son’s criminal actions, suggesting that US elites will soon remove Biden but they first must jettison Kamala so that their new puppet has a more credible public face.
One key longer term is for true American patriots to expose and neutralize the Israel lobby and their US tools such as Nuland and her husband Kagan, who will not go down without something analogous to the Samson option. They’ve crushed voices of reason such as Mearsheimer’s, who long ago pointed out the primacy of Israel’s interests in US foreign policy. The destruction of the international banking cartel, to which the American neocons are inextricably linked, will hasten their fall. Putin knows this, and has never stopped playing the long game. The commodity-linked currency announcement expected for Friday will accelerate the next phase.
Longer term, as this crisis is resolved, Russia must protect herself over the following decades from the next hegemon, China. Nature abhors a vacuum and there will be a vacuum of power as the US fades into the sunset of history.
Meanwhile, I will continue to pray for peace and justice in this world of ours.
Ukrainian positions have not realluy changed. Is Russia bluffing saying she is trying to reach an agreement?
It is an interesting Russian pivot. They can withdraw some troops around Kiev, exactly as they said they would do. It takes far fewer troops to hold what you’ve already gained.
Russia takes some of their combat power from Kiev and redeploys it to crushing the cauldrons.
The Ukrainians trapped in Kiev may regain some inconsequential areas that the Russian’s probably planned on giving up because they are not part of a strong defensive line. And would be easy to retake later.
Kiev continues to be cutoff from armaments and reinforcements, and is unable to redeploy anywhere else.
Russia continues the attrition, moving forces to selected spots to crush while keeping the pressure cooker at simmer everywhere else.
Russia brings in administrative personnel to systematically remove the Russophobes from power, from education, from business, and from distribution.
This must be done, as the deep state in the West will be rearming the Ukrainians and trying to insert guerrillas in the Russian controlled zones if they are not completely pacified.
Face to face “formalisation”, Great opportunity for poisoning Putin. Radiation like Arafat and Chavez?
This came to my mind too maybe they set up a trap
The Americans want him dead this we know for sure
But I think Putin won’t be that stupid
Does not address total demilitarization. Only ‘eyes on’ the destruction or removal of all weapons and elimination of all command centers, HQs, barracks and bases, airstrips and hangers will suffice.
Does not address total denazification. All statues, icons, signs, symbols taken down and outlawed.
Using Ukraine’s present government structure will simply lead to return of all evil.
Does not address the war crimes, crimes against humanity.
It appears to be an exercise in futility.
“…It appears to be an exercise in futility.”
Key word, futility.
After so much blood.
Wonder what other calculations are entering into the negotiations. Russia’s economy? Long term effect of sanctions? Who knows.
I am not concerned about the not mentioning of denazification during the negotiations, that is one of the special operations’ objectives, not subject to negotiation. I posted a comment yesterday about it, replying to a comment from another poster re: an article from FT stating Russia “no longer demanding denazification in Ukraine.”
I posted a link to Peskov denial of that statement from TASS on March 4, stating “denazification has not even been mentioned during the negotiations.”
Peskov said that Russia does not abandon the course of denazification of Ukraine.
Thus, the presidential press secretary reacted to the opinion expressed in Kiev that Moscow abandoned this course, since the word “denazification” does not sound at the Russian-Ukrainian negotiations.
Wonder what Peskov has to say to this one.
“As if you didn’t know how it feels to lose
As if you didn’t know how it feels to lose at dice with fate
At least have some dignity
As if it wasn’t a lifetime spent on connecting the dots
There was no pattern
As if the irony was more than a defense mechanism
And we could actually laugh for a change
As if steel hooks in our backs were more than a nuisance
And we could actually feel something
As if everything was to be made right one day
Dreams don’t come true for people like us
As if the gods were bored with peace in our hearts
And their fingers are itchy
As if we never broke people out of sheer boredom
And slept calmly among the wastes
And then we see bright and clear
As if all this was something more
Than another footnote on a postcard from nowhere
Another chapter in the handbook for exercises in futility.”
People are jumping the gun on this one. Consider Scott Ritter’s take on Russian military strategy.
Thanks for posting that – very good analysis.
Small wonder then that “unnamed officials” quickly jumped to report the good news to the Financial Times. It sounds like a conditional surrender of the Russian Federation.
Such an agreement would solve just as many issues as the Minsk agreements — next to none.
But we have not yet seen the end result. Who knows what will happen next…
“…▪️Guarantees will not be extended to Donbass region and Russia owned Crimean Peninsula – which would make Kiev formally abandon idea to annex them militarily…”
“…Guarantees will not be extended…”?
Is that a typo, the original meaning being “…Guarantees will now be extended…”?
According to TASS.RU,
“…Kiev’s position also implies abandoning the desire to return Crimea and Sevastopol to Ukraine by force…”
This means guarantees are being given.
It just means that no one will guarantee that “Ukrainian” Crimea and “Ukrainian” Donbass will be free of Russian influence.
“▪️Ukraine to become a neutral state… with internationally guaranteed independence
▪️Guarantees will not be extended to Donbass region and Russia owned Crimean Peninsula – which would make Kiev formally abandon idea to annex them militarily”
Good news if it stops a war and proves President Putin a man of his word when he says this Special Operation is limited to securing the 2 points cited above.
What will happen to the Nazis?
What will they do once Russia left?
I can tell you what, they will massacre a lot of Ukrainians.
Probably worse than before
I can’t believe that Russia will do that
That would be treason on the soldiers and the Eastern Ukraine
Either Russia takes out this evil cancer as promised or Russia is done forever
Wow I was not expecting this. This is utterly shameful and I don’t see the Russian people being happy with this. So Russia is going to be giving back a lot of territory it just paid for in blood to the Ukrops. The Ukrainians and West will convincingly be able to spin this as a Ukrainian military victory where even though they had to give in to some demands that they still stopped Russia from conquering all of Ukraine. Russia is going to walk away from this humiliated and they are abandoning tons of people whom they claimed they were liberating. What happened to denazification? That’s no longer in the demands? What a shame. I hope I’m just overreacting here but this is an enormous let down. We are never going to hear the end of the crowing from the russiaphobes and ukrops and I can’t see Putin saving face with the Russian people after this. I mean this isn’t Brest Litovsk humiliating but it’s close enough.
Just wow. I wish Moscow had never claimed it was going to denazify Ukraine. Russias isn’t going to live that down ever. The Nazis are going to come out of this with massively enhanced reputations and credibility. Sure it’s all lies, sure Russia could get rid of them but it doesn’t matter. The western media will spin the heroic Nazis as having forced Russia to suspend its operations everywhere except around the LNR and DNR. When Russia officially walks back on denazification than the Nazis survival combined with their drastically enhanced influence that Russia just handed them will ensure they become even more powerful in Ukraine and probably Russia will have to go back again. Let’s hope next time Russia doesn’t abandon its own like they are doing now and they finish the job. Absolutely unreal. The fact that Moscow is doing this the day after the videos of Russian pows being tortured was released is just adding insult to injury.
What the hell is Putin thinking? The army and patriots aren’t going to take this well at all. Am I missing something? Are the sanctions actually working? Is uncle shmuel right that the Russian army is on the ropes? What is going on?
The war is not over yet and there still going to be fighting and developments on the ground especially in the east so this list still doesn’t mean anything.
I think that the influence of evroatlantics won in Moscow.
This is a huge mistake as the problem will be beck in few years.
Russian reaction in commentaries on various sites tends to be negative. One of the milder responses was that we seem to be heading towards Minsk III.
And it will be spun as a Ukrainian victory. If things actually go on like this and it is not simply a negotiating gambit. Kadyrov has actually been quoted as saying there should not be negotiations at all. He may be right.
Putin could even be in danger of being overthrown but not by Atlanticists but by Russian nationalists.
putin will shoot himself in his own knee if he puts his signature. checkmate
Yeah the massive moral victory Kiev is going to get plus the neo Nazis survival and ensuing increased influence is going to outway Kiev letting Crimea and Donbass go on paper. Plus Russia saying that they are suspending operations everywhere but in the East is kind of letting the neo Nazis know they are safe if they make it to Kiev right now. Guaranteed Russia is going to need to go back again and I swear listening to the crowing about how Russia was stopped from conquering all of Ukraine is going to be unbearable. Russia not insisting that the rights of Russian speakers be respected is another huge slap in the face. What about all the pro Russian people who live on the territory that Russia is going to give back to Kiev without following through on denazification? They are dead people walking basically. I would hate to be someone that was friendly with Russian troops once the Russian give that territory back…and that’s all the territory Russia has taken outside the LNR and DNR. Just…for shame.
and I thought only Slobo can be so naiv.
Serbs still didnt recover mentaly from the alibi peace agreement.
Every child in Serbia knows that Slobo has signed without need a capitulation document.
This so called peace talks are only a USNATO circus event.
But the clown has been made the circus director by Russia
The west is going to see this as weakness.
At the very least, it’ll not deter the neocons in Washington to keep going.
These “negotiations” are probably just a charade, but even impressions
from these charades matter.
The current round of negotiations is likely just another step forward. The next step may be a further escalation of military operations and that will bring it closer to a conclusion. Kyiv might not be entirely ready for the endgame now. They may still believe in a miracle. We will see sshortly.
Fully agree with your assessment. What a betrayal to all the Russian soldiers and civilians who sacrificed their lives.
Are you a kind of 6th columnist ?
Hey dude, you want war? Go do it my boy.
You want blood? Go to give yours.
With such friend, Russia don’t need ennemy.
Look Dorian, the moral victory it seems like Moscow is about to hand Kiev totally outweighs the concessions Kiev will make on paper. The neo Nazis are going to come out of this more influential and far more emboldened. And absolutely most of all how are those people outside the LNR and DNR territory going to feel when the Russians leave and pissed off emboldened neo Nazis come back? Moscow started this operation to end a genocide and is about to cause an even bigger one apparently. Anyone who was even remotely friendly to Russian troops outside of LNR/DNR territory are dead. Full stop. Moscow just condemned lots of people to death and to top it off Kiev isn’t going to honor anything in the treaty anyway. This is sickening.
Russia hasnt agreed to anything yet, it remains to be seen what will be in any agreement if one is signed. Russia also has a demographic problem with a declining population as have many countries as the cost of raising children has risen year on year for decades, the people that will most likely be threatened by the Orcs after the military operation is over may be offered the opportunity to migrate to Russia solving several problems in one move, but this is just me speculating at the moment anything is possible.
Well said. Even Kadyrov has stated that the negotiations are pointless and useless without a full denazification and destruction of the Bandera regime. I like Kadyrov, sometimes he seems like a better leader than Putin to be honest…sometimes Putin seems to soft on the Banderite Nazis.
Calm down guys, I believe there is a lot of window dressing going on. This is a nice step by Ukraine, but by no means will Russia stop here. It is just about accepting the first hand by Kiev. In the past days Russia continued the same phrase ‘completing all military objectives’. There is no way Russia can retreat with this proposal unless all sanctions are lifted as well, which won’t happen. May the ‘good’ win.
Please check this link posted at the Duran. It States Medinsky recounted the proposals received from the Ukrainians.
Was there a joint statement?
If so, what did it say?
The negotiator of the Russian Federation should no repeat the enemy’s talking point! Would Molotov have recited Hitler or Ribbentrop? Is Medinsky an idiot? Or a traitor? In any case he should be replaced by someone who knows how to handle the press and is able to represent the interestes of the Russian Federation!
I think, Russia is going to pay a dire price for any agreement with Ukraine/USA.
It is obvious, it is not going to be respected.
The essence of Ukraine is hating Russia and Russians.
Putin tried to solve this with a small army to reduce the dead toll.
But, this is so important for Russia, that sacrifices cannot be avoided.
Please do not forget that the highest military leader has the last word.
What an utter humiliation of Russia.
Literally nothing achieved, just a return to pre-war status quo. Pure loss on Russian side. I’m sure Russian tv is going to present that as a giant victory.
Nato was never happening anyway.
Ukraine is ruined and nothing will resurrect dead people, but Russia will be forced to pay massive reparations as a condition for withdrawing Western sanctions.
ANnther attack on Donetsk. Why is this still happening?? I thought the Russians said the first part of the war is over and that Dombass was mostly cleared of the Ukrainian army.
Watching the pressconference.
The body language of both Delegations speaks volumes!
Russian: Insecure, Tired, Dejected, Struggling for Posture,
Ukraine: Self-Confident, Aggressive, Convincing, sure of victory
The only thing missing is the russian signature below this poor picture
=> Milosevic 2.0
“Kiev is requesting the final treaty to be formalized by Russian and Ukrainian heads of states”
They aim to kill President Putin when he arrives at the meeting with the puppet Zelensky.
Putin should not show up unless the real leaders of the Ukrainian proxy forces show up to surrender.
“Russia’s MoD announced it was reducing its military op in parts of Ukraine, including near the capital, Kiev. The ministry cited “the talks moving into the practical dimension,” as the reason for the change”.
It is too early to scale down the Russian operation in Kiev. The City mayor must announce he is stepping down and the capitulation of the City, before the peace negotiations can commence.
Zelensky has suggested for Europeans to light candles in their windows this evening, in support for Ukraine.
I deny displaying lighted candles in honor of Neo-NAZI and Fascist Criminals.
Shame on the Ukrainian Government.
Come in to my parlour said the spider to the fly
If Kiev agrees to all that, why did Zelensky then allow decimation of his army? As for Russia, i do understand they have severally stated their objectives as Ukraine not joining Nato, independence of Donbass and Ukraine to renounce any idea of ever reclaiming Crimea. That’s okay. But it will leave a lot of questions unanswered as how can Russia keep EU/Nato out of Ukraine? And what this nonsense that Ukraine can join EU, which has a mutual defense clause?
I understand Russians want to save lives and be done with war as soon as possible, but at a minimum Russia should depose Zelensky and his gangs and install a friendly government. And have military bases as guarantee that Ukraine will not be rearmed.
Putin has habit of winding down military campaign when victory is at hand like in Syria in Feb 2016 and in Donbass in Feb 2015
Sad but true. I can only shake my head in disbelief.
Je suis aussi surpris. Mais, je fais l’hypothèse que le leadership russe anticipe l’effondrement de l’UE et de la capacités des USA a financer ses aventures coloniales. Ce qui leurs permets un gain politique très important tout de suite.
I am also surprised. But, I make the hypothesis that the Russian leadership anticipates the collapse of the EU and the capacity of the USA to finance its colonial adventures. This allows them a very important political gain right away.
As Jimmie Moglia correctly noted in today’s publication, the behavior of people acting on behalf of the Ukrainian authorities is a farce. That is, it is hypocritical, cynical and deceitful.
Including negotiations with Russia. The result of these negotiations could be the preservation of the lives of many people, the prevention of destruction. But, instead, a farce is being played out.
If you look at the Ukrainian media, they are full of demagogic propaganda. It is possible not to know about some military facts, but familiar with demagogic techniques, these schizophrenic evasions are visible in Ukrainian texts.
Another example when they want to make a fool out of an interlocutor is Zelensky’s recent interview with several Russian journalists, who are considered not oppositional, but “independent”.
My initial reaction to this is: “How the hell does this make any sense whatsoever?” However, then I started thinking: Ukraine can’t really sign anything with Russia at this point – if Zelensky signs away Donbass and Crimea, he’ll be killed by his own Nazis. Perhaps this is the plan – show that the Ukrainian side is “недоговороспособные”, to show “ok, we tried making a deal, we really tried, so don’t blame us for plan B”.
I just can’t see any kind of agreement being enforced; remember Minsk? Exactly. What I can see happening is Russia wiping out the Nazis in the East, and then rounding up the rest of Ukraine, leaving perhaps the part from Lvov to Zhitomir, and I’m not even sure about that, because I can’t see America not escalating the situation and keeping it kinetic; they *don’t* want peace in Ukraine, they see it as a “bear trap” for Russia.
We don’t really know whats going on,but Russia has to win this or its over,they made the mistake of halting the SAA advance on Idlib in Syria,look at what we have now Turkish and Terrorist occupation.
All of us who follow the news on CNN or BBC know that the Russian military attacks target primarily civilians. Russians are that way.
So I was wondering why the casualties among civilians attributable to the Russians are so low, after discounting those that occur unintentionally due to honest misunderstandings between civilians and the brave Azov fighters.
I think I have the answer: the Russian military are as woefully inept as the Russian Secret Service who keep trying to poison courageous dissidents with lethal agents and always fail. Now it appears they tried to kill Abramovic who was trying to help the peace negotiations and he, predictably, survived!
If anyone tries to off Zelinsky because he has become useless it won’t be with Novichok. A dependable Pfizer product maybe. Or maybe he will commit suicide sitting on the floor by hanging himself with a sheet tied to the leg of the bedlike Epstein. Idle thoughts, nothing more… In fact I wish him a long life in a safe Institutional environment where this video plays in closed loop over and over
.and where… no, no more idle thoughts
Ukraine army in Donbass is in the meat grinder and it’s churning around fast and strong …
They have no way out.
Next proposal ought to be unconditional surrender.
I can see that warmongers are not only on west side.
The same stupid willing to do war with blood of others
Ear them shout
“Hey, it’s not enough this”
” Ho, it’s too much that”
“Hey Putin is a pussy”.
I’m done with this kind of keyboard warriors.
Sure, I will come to read the items but no more the comments.
Why are you people jumping to conclusions before even there is some official statement?
AFAIK Medinskiy just quoted what the Ukrainian side is proposing. The rest seems to be just journalistic drama.
I agree, some people need to take a chill pill and see how things play out.
Ukraine is changing their position publicly, nothing more. TBH i cannot assess Russia standing back a bit militarily from Kiev, we don’t know the overall plan so no way to know how this affects what they intended to do in any case.
“Guarantees” and “treaties” aren’t worth the paper they’re written on – if the events of late February-early March showed anything at all, it was that. I hope this isn’t some sign of some forces inside Russian elites trying to throw the match and nullify Russia’s position. Surely Putin should be smarter than ending things with a half-baked climbdown just because there were “assurances” and “guarantees” after the West, and doubly so 404, spent the last decade repeatedly proving treaties and negotiations with them do not work at all?
If he is not, that’s going to turn the entire move Russia made from its position prior to the war on its head and result in a huge loss for Russia, particularly at home. The insane hostility from abroad and the atrocities of Ukronazis leave no chance of anything “going back to normal” in any sense of the word. If Russia just withdraws with only the L-DNR and Crimea, that’s going to mean inevitable genocide for Russians in 404 as Banderites will both remain in power and feel like they won the war – and the West will also feel like it defeated Russia and treat this as a weakness.
There’s going to be no peace unless it involves a total denazification and removal of the criminal usurpers from power in Kiev. If anyone in Russia is stupid enough to buy into a promise of a negotiated peace, it’s just going to be the First Chechen War ending all over again, promising a Second one a couple years later but even worse.
And in addition to that – that’d also completely flip the scene inside Russia. The unprecedented surge of national consciousness and patriotism that is currently buoying Putin would turn against him if anything like a “negotiated peace” with Banderites happens. We’d be looking at regime change in Russia all right, except this time it’d be all the people who turn out to the Immortal Regiment and normally voted Putin, the “Deep Folk”, who’d be the “maidan” force. With the army also left to question their loyalties.
That’s why I hope this is really just smoke and mirrors and negotiation tactic bullshit that the media blew out of proportion. Because if the Russian side really is that stupid, they’d be fulfilling all of the West’s hostile plans against them themselves if they do this.
Can there be peace without justice?
Can Russia allow these bygones to be bygones without, not vengeance but account settling and just retribution?
Indeed, the greatest threat to Russia are these peace talks. If these continue like this they could have saved themselves the trouble of doing anything at all. Drastically reduce the military op means that Kiev can throw all these troops which are freed against Russian troops where they are still active. Amazing! What will happen with Odessa? Another question.
If, if, and if. Moving in a practical direction.
These are just opening negotiation tactics in a long process. Yes, the Ukrainian side appears to be moving in their stance but there are many talking points to go.
Before anybody gets emotional and starts to claim victory or defeat or betrayal, remember papers that lack the signature of Zelensky and Putin are irrelevant. Putin can only sign after due review by the Duma and Zelensky only after his master’s have approved.
Hmm, if Ukraine joins the EU, it would automatically become part of
the military alliance (and all the benefits that come with it).
Don’t Russians know this?
From press reports, it seems that Russians were all over the map in these “negotiations”.
I know they are most likely not serious, but then they are doing exactly the same thing
that they are accusing Ukranians (and Europeans/Americans).
Putin is far from being a good chess player. The damage will be gigantic. Especially for the high reputation of the russian Army and russian military industry. Not to talk about the damage for the economy, society, ……..
It has been announced that this is the list of Ukrainian proposals and that Russia will give counter-proposals.
This isn’t near being over as for the fighting or being close to an actual deal.
You should wait until all of the information comes out not react to the first statment.
“Putin is far from being a good chess player”
Let me guess: you got that from Gasparov?
Very hard to watch videos in this important report that needs wide dissemination:
Russia is folding. It’s a tiger of paper
Surprise! Unpleasant surprise, to say the least.
THAT, possibly a «peace treaty»? — In context, I do not understand anything about that Russian move.
I nonetheless tell myself I must wait and see, before passing judgment.
All in all, unconditionally, I totally distrust and will continue to distrust the Empire, and all its accomplices.
It is beyond me how any Russian can possibly trust such creatures.
I don’t know why people are freaking out. A negotiated settlement is preferable to war. First, I think the details of a settlement need to be examined throughly before any judgment is made.
It will be very funny when the EU wants nothing to do with the Ukraine after all of media bluster of the EU support for Ukraine.
No need for Russia to de-Nazi Ukraine anymore. At its previous demonic structure, Ukrainian Nazis are almost gone. As long as Donbas and Crimea are firmly in Russia control. Any Ukrainian Nazi rising from their ashes will rather hurt Ukraine and bring Ukraine down to knees than to harass Russian Ukrainians.
Despite what Biden had claimed that US and EU were never more united last week, the economic pains and the specter of a weakened Japan-like economic status, made EU think twice about US enforced suicide. So, US will have to agree.
Kiev is requesting for final treaty to be formalised by Russian and Ukrainian heads of states
WHY? Can anybody explain this to me?
I don’t trust Zelensky. He will hurt Mr Putin. He will do anything imaginable to kill Mr Putin, I think. Z may be a kamikaze. The US is behind this stupid demand, and may implant a deadly weapon inside Z that no mechanism of detection will be able to detect it…
There should be a very thick, strong glass barrier between them if this FORCED ‘meeting’ is inevitable…
Everybody should hold their horses because it was announced that Moscow will submit a counter-proposal to the Ukrainian one so this isn’t over or close to being over.
Looks to me like just more stalling for time to get the sacrificial lambs from the 82 Airborne into position to be shot down/blown up. The Western presstitutes are running various mangled versions to make it look like Moscow is capitulating on the key motivations for the SMO. Ask yourself why would Russia turn herself into a “pariah” for something she’d then abandon only a month later. Putin isn’t Joe Binden & Co.
Holding a referendum in Ukraine on a non-aligned and non-nuclear status, prescribed in the security guarantees agreement.
If this position is accepted by the Ukrainian people, this agreement will be accepted.
Such a referendum is rife for fixing.
I understand Russia’s somewhat limited scope of its demands at the start of the operation, but it has lost too much (not on the battlefield) due to sanctions, had its reserves stolen, etc. that they might as well go all the way and expand its demands and expand its military objectives. Why lose so much for so little especially since they are clearly winning the war, they should push on. The ending of the war must show clearly and undisputed that Russia has overwhelmingly won the war. Ukraine must meet 100% of all of Russia’s terms. Russia should keep pushing militarily until Ukraine surrenders unconditionally. Anything less can be seen by the Russian public as a “what was the point” kind of attitude. Typically propaganda does not matter if in the end the war is overwhelmingly won by Russia. Russia cannot leave any room for doubt or for the West to say Russia lost and failed in its objectives.
The ram has touched the wall, no mercy.
Russia must be seen to have won the war and simply winning it is not enough at this sacrifice now. Otherwise Russia will lose all allies
Why are the Russians not immediately rejecting this proposal which is only representative of the Ukrainian government pov? Are they all conspiring to manipulate the stock market? Did the Americans uncover some fresh dirt on Putin that cramps his style? Did a valuable asset who enabled the Russian strategy to unfold smoothly die? No supporter of the liberation of the Ukraine will stand for a halt to denazification!!!
Lavrov Detailed in 5 paragraphs how the US block has mocked and igmored ever agreement or promise it made to Russia. WTF is this ?
I think this is psyops on the part of the Ukies, but apparently Russia did agree to curtail operations around Chernigov and Kiev.
This appears to be another case of Russia failing to “command the heights” of the discussion, and letting misinformation go unchallenged. Because this tale is mostly what the Ukies and their “friends” in England at the Financial Times are saying, it’s probably just posturing to influence the outcome.
My two kopecks worth is that there is no point in “confidence building” by relenting in any part of the “Special Military Operation”. That would be a something for nothing. If there were some understanding whereby the trade is that Kiev continue to do almost nothing to prevent Russia from closing off the cauldrons east of the Dnieper would not be a bad thing. But if not … Failure to benefit from the cauldron, would make the third cauldron that wasn’t finished off, after Ilovaisk in 2014 and Debaltsevo in 2015.
The Kremlin needs to get out in front of this parade, or else pour some cold water on it.
Getting rid of the Nazis is a red line or else Galicia will be a tumor that won’t go away. Killing off the Nazi battalions is nowhere near enough. Even if all the Ukrainians in the East and South of what’s left of 404 realize how much they hate the Nazis, that will not get rid of Nazis. My one kopeck’s worth is that Ukraine was already defeated by the Empire Of Lies, and the evidence is the economy was long-ago in ruins, and in 2021 the law was passed to sell off the land to foreigners. Even stupid Nazis must understand that. The Nazis need to have their noses rubbed in it, and the political conditions need to be imposed so the Nazis admit their strategic defeat and leave the field, so Ukraine can rebuild as a normal nation.
Personally, I hope to see what the EU will do when they refuse to pay for Russian gas in Russian rubles, because that ought to wake up the peoples of Europe.
What exactly were the main objectives of Russian government when they started the special operation in Ukraine?
3) future nutrality of Ukraine
4) Donbass/Novorossian land recapture
5) no NATO base in east Europe
The latest status shows except 2) other points have not been resolved fully. Russia will not get another chance to stop NATO …. Unless they finish off the incomplete tasks with determination, by 2030 the problems will reappear in full force and with more complexity.
Earlier I posted a comment on the poor performance of the Russian military in Ukraine who target civilians but keep fumbling again and again and hitting military objectives instead.
I also mentioned the similar pitiful record of the Russian “wet job” secret service agents who fail to kill their designated victims with lethal neurologic agents which they frantically smear on the targets underwear and on the doorknobs, and pour them in their tea and water like so many Mr Beam.
It appears that they tried to poison Abramovic while he was helping the peace negotiations but, because he was actually not present there, they only managed to give him a face peeling:
Telegram was blocked. This isn’t what Russia was going for but it isn’t what the Neocons want either and Z won’t able to sign it. What about the Biological Weapons Laboratories? They are Crimes Against Humanity financed by H Biden and his company which must be prosecuted. The Ukrainian Army has committed hundreds, if not thousands of War Crimes and Z is responsible for them. What is the status of Novorussia? The Baby Twins? Are they autonomous?
If Putin signs that deal, then he’s going to be kicked out.
I think we need to bear in mind that this is just a written proposal that Kiev has put forward of what they want in a peace treaty
I think its a good start and already a long way from where Kiev started
The Russian leadership will now take it away and I would imagine make counter proposals based on the red lines that they have
By the time this is concluded I think the Dombas will already be fully under control fully and that means most of the denazification will be complete
The real war is the economic war that has started and that will not be settled in a peace treaty
Russia has shown the world its strength and military might and everyone has sat up and is paying attention
It’s a far-fetched idea that all the Nazis outside Galicia could be wiped out, but even if they were, a new generation could be raised later. While “the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi” seems to makes sense and certainly feels good, the only true defeat of Nazism is nothing less than a complete strategic defeat, on at least the scale of 1945 because the same Western elites who built up Germany to destroy the Bolsheviks before WW2, were still undefeated and supported Ukrainian Nazis after 1945. So the defeat has to be spectacular for it to be effective. Fortunately, this time the Empire might go down along with their little Nazi monsters.
Interesting link not by showing dead Ukrainians but by the text in english
Maybe I am wrong but all this about Russia changing stance about denazification and withdrawing from some taken teritorries is BS from Western media. There is not confirmation from Russian sources. I did not see that confirmation
Liquidation of Nazi organizations is crucial.
I cannot believe that Russia can abandon denazification
And one thing that nobody mention – Russia must insist on loose FEDERALIZATION of Ukraine. It is only way to protect russian-speaking population and to prevent West Ukraine lunatics to rule over entire Ukraine again
Ukraine joining EU – no problem. It is not going to happen. Even if happens not big deal. Ukraine will get NOTHING from EU anyway even if it join EU.
But Russia must continue military actions and take entire Novorussia including Odessa and to join rusian forces in Transistria.
Honestly I think that Russians significantly slowed down. Maybe they do not have enough human force. But this is not good. Russia cannot afford endless war in Ukraine.
Kiev cannot be taken by 100 000 soldiers. Berlin was taken by 2 300 000 soldiers plus 200 000 red Poles.
Maybe they do not want to take Kiev. It is still big question what Russians really want to achieve in Ukraine
Of course Russia with LDNR militias + Chechens can take Kiev once the Ukie troops in Donbass are obliterated.
Kiev would be almost defenseless then.
This suppression in Donbass is about to be done, might take one week may be two.
Stopping this course is TREASON – save for Ukraine unconditional surrender in order to save Ukraine military lives.
Sputnik News (Ukraine, Russia, CIS & Baltics)
Russia will put forward counter initiatives after considering Ukraine’s proposals – Medinsky
All the theses announced earlier were Kiev’s proposals, not the provisions of the treaty.
According to the head of the Russian delegation, there is still a long way to go to prepare an agreement between Russia and Ukraine on mutually acceptable terms.
De-escalation in the Kiev and Chernihiv directions does not mean a cease-fire – Medinsky.
Any “de-escalation” east of the Dnjepr is a sign a total Russian military failure.
This looks like a good news. What we must understand is that only two sides are involved in this agreement. As Lavrov said, west will be not involved in this agreement. So no Minsk 3 type of BS. Russia will be the only party verifying how agreement is being held. As for EU membership, does anyone really think EU members will hurry and accept Ukraine in EU?! Who will pay for all destruction? Ukraine military distroyed 100+ bridges to slow down russians. Who will pay for it? Now, since Ukraine asks to be neutral, it is becoming less attractive to US.
I beleive, US will jump in and help rebuild it. That is what they are doing all these years, helping countries in need, right? Ukraine become hot potato. Does anyone thinks that after agreement is made, everything will be as before? Russia will sell oil for dollars and euros? I do not think so.
But you do´nt think it might be av very clever tactical strategi of Russia? If peace is achieved.
Ukrainian refugeés will tell the world about the neonazists and that they voted on Zelenskyj because he promised them peace.
And if the russians arrange legal actions like Nurnberg trials, the people in Europe will keep their eyes open, and afterwards the opinion for Russia might change?
All because there is too much that would be at stake if Russia leaves Europe totally.
The war is moving on – the next phase will be winning the economic war by demanding payment for gas (to begin with) in rubles or gold, buying gold at 5,000 rubles per gramme (thus pegging the ruble to a gold standard) and then joining a totally new financial system for international trade (as will be revealed 1 April).
The aim will be to smash the dollar. No dollar = no NATO. This will mean security for Russia and the details in Ukraine (in particular the de-Nazifying, removal of biolabs and confiscation of all manpads and anti-tank weapons that terrorists could use) will undoubtedly happen in due course.
“Russia does not oppose Ukraine potentially joining the European Union”
Yes, because it is almost impossible for Ukraine to join the EU. And even if it is going to happen, this would re-ignite and accelerate the splitting of the country since eastern Russophones would vehemently oppose EU-membership. So, stuff is much more complex than it first appears…
I’m seeing a lot of comments that are disparaging of the Russian stance on an agreement. I would like to point out, no agreement has been made, so far the only stable thing we know is that Ukraine has become more flexible and willing to cooperate, and we know the points that Russia wants. Which were/are,
-Neutral military/Nato (which looks like they are willing to agree to now),
-Demilitarization, a lot of which has been done by Russia over the last month. Furthermore from the article I read in ZH, part of the agreement is no weapons, particularly massively destructive ones, no bio weapons, etc. and no military in Ukraine, Nato or otherwise. (Now, there may still be some weapons left in Ukraine, but let’s see who is going to be left to use them if there is no military. And with regard to oligarchs funding Ukrainians to use the existing weaponry, those oligarchs are on the “wanted list” so we are not even sure they are going to be around, or if their funds are going to be in existence. And how much appetite will the Ukrainians have to do more fighting? I think a lot of Ukrainians are pretty upset with their own troops! )
-Denazification – firstly, it’s still not clear if Russia has relinquished that demand, and further more, it is only in Zelensky’s interest that this action would be completed, as this group does pose a threat to him. let’s see what happens and how.
-recognition of Donbass and Crimea. My understanding is that this would be for a period of 15 years, although this is still not in black and white. Where do we think the EU will be in 15 years? Nato in 15 years? How will the Ukrainians feel about going to war over Donbass and Crimea in 15 years with no backing from EU (broke) or US (broke) And where will Russia be in comparison? This 15 years also gives Zelensky/current government a bit of a softer blow or maybe a “face saver” We will see.
I have FULL FAITH in Russia, Putin, Lavrov, Shoigu, and the Russian government. For me, this looks like being very masterfully handled. If Putin can pull this off, there sit EU and Nato, with a mouth full of teeth. What to do and say? how to spin this. Their wonderful game of virtue signaling is over and the war which US so desperately wants, then slips off the table. They would have shot themselves in the foot with all the sanctions, and they look really bad to their own populations, not to mention the rest of the world.
These people play the long game, the distant memories of past slights are passed down from generation to generation (interesting Lira vid). The offspring of monsters have lost their play ground…..I see no mention of Odessa, anywhere so far. If the Ukraine’s access to the Black Sea is not removed, Russia will have won this ‘battle’ WW3 will have been deferred, but Russia will still have to face future attacks and a future Armageddon several Nuland generations down the road.
Does not sound like a victory for Russia. I would have expected that they want to keep at least Donezk and Lugansk and that Ukraine must guarantee the cultural rights of Russians in Ukraine. I guess they are very affraid of the false flag attack which the neocons are certainly preparing and which would end in WWIII. Maybe this is a maneuvre to destroy the storyline for the false flag (Russia was losing so badly that they had to go for a chemical attack or something similar).
What I am also asking myself if they might simply do what Ukraine has done with the Minsk agreements: sign the agreement and then let the Duma reject it, start negotiating again and don’t leave the occupied parts of Ukraine.
Or, the Russians could sign and continue with the distruction of the eastern armies.
If they sign and fully implement the agreement, then it would look very much like a defeat for Russia. But maybe I am not able to see how this agreement would be a victory for Russia.
If Russia truly is caving, that will only become clear from Russia’s response to these Ukrainian proposals. One indicator will be what it says regarding the international guarantees of the prospective settlement, including agreement in the UNSC: will Russia insist that the deal include removal of all sanctions imposed on Russia without UNSC approval, which would means ALL EU and US sanctions since forever? If so, then refusal by the West puts at least some of the onus for continuing the war on the West. If lifting sanctions is not part of the agreement, then Russia clearly is the loser. We just have to wait and see.
no denazification?! :O
If the Ukraine is not acknowledging Donbass and Crimea as not being part of their country, then it’s a failure. That is the very basic minimum.
This looks more like a Ukrainian wishlist than the result of negotiations.
I never cared much about that Denazification, because i do not believe that the Banderas are just that tiny obvious minority that you can tell appart and remove, the root of the problem is not those radicals, but the society and mindset that allowed them to be created.
Meanwhile; back in The Ukraine, Russia continues to destroy Ukraine’s fuel reserves. Without fuel, Ukraine’s army looses not just tactical mobility but strategic mobility. Ukraine will soon be unable to shift troops from the Kiev region to the Doonbas or Odessa region, much less manauvere in battle. Russia is also inviting Ukraine to go on the offensive in the Kiev area. Offense needs to have a big numerical advantage over dug in defense to succeed and offense will still suffer high casualties. While the Ukrainian army is taking high casualties to push Russian troops back from Kiev, Russia will be finishing off the Ukrainian forces around Mariupol.
A defeat for Ukraine is a defeat for Biden.
A defeat for Ukraine is a defeat for the globalist elites.
A defeat for Biden is a victory for American conservatives.
“A defeat for Biden is a victory for American conservatives.”
Who want a war with China
Once China is fine with them Russia.
The US is a one party nation state.
The liberals want to destroy Russia then China.
Take your pick.
I was not aware of this claim, that debt payments were made from a foreign frozen account. Good news, if true.