This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-case-for-the-breakup-of-the-ukraine/
Just as the corporate media is not reporting that the USA and Russia are on a collision course which can end up in nuclear war, the corporate media is not reporting that the Ukraine is falling apart. That does not mean, however, that this is not happening. It is. In fact, it has been for a long while already, but since that collapse is smoothed out by a lack of military action and by the political support of the Empire, it does not appear to be catastrophic (in the sense of causing a sudden dramatic change). But the signs are all over the place, ranging from the outright bizarre attack by Ukronazi saboteurs on Crimea (which, besides the group which was caught also involved at least two other groups conducting a diversionary reconnaissance by fire against the northeast of the Peninsula) to the quasi daily reports of an “imminent”, but apparently never coming, Ukronazi attack against the Donbass. On the political front, the Ukrainian Jeanne d’Arc, Nadezhda Savchenko, is now accused of being a Putin agent because she advocates for negotiations with the DNR/LNR, while the regime in Kiev is trying to maintain its relevance to NATO hawks by offering to teach them “how to fight against the Russians”. The reality, of course, is that financial support from the Empire to the Ukraine has now almost completely dried up due to, among other things, the realization that the Ukies can steal almost all the money they get, and that nobody buys the “the Russkies are coming!” canard anymore. Frankly, the Ukronazi project has outlived its utility and nobody gives a damn what will happen to the Ukrainian people.
And that is a huge mistake.
Somalia on the EU
It is impossible to estimate how many people are still living in the Ukraine today, but most experts believe that the figure is somewhere between 35-40 million people. The vast majority of them are struggling to make a living and their future looks very, very bleak. Remember Dmitri Orlov’s five stages of collapse? They are:
Stage 1: Financial collapse. Faith in “business as usual” is lost.
Stage 2: Commercial collapse. Faith that “the market shall provide” is lost.
Stage 3: Political collapse. Faith that “the government will take care of you” is lost.
Stage 4: Social collapse. Faith that “your people will take care of you” is lost.
Stage 5: Cultural collapse. Faith in “the goodness of humanity” is lost.
Even a cursory look at what is happening in the Ukraine clearly shows that Stage 5 has already been reached, quite a while ago, really. What comes next is basically Somalia. But a big, really big, Somalia, with millions of assault rifles circulating in the population, with major industrial sites capable of triggering another Chernobyl-like disaster, with various death-squads (private or semi-official) freely roaming around the country and imposing their rule with armored vehicles and heavy machine guns. So if the always Euro-centric West could afford to ignore a Somalia in Somalia there is no way it can ignore a Somalia on the EU and NATO border. To put it simply: there is absolutely nothing standing between the Somalia in the Ukraine and the EU. Nothing. Once the inevitable, and this time catastrophic, final collapse happens the resulting explosion will simple take the path of least resistance.
To the east we have Russia, with her superbly capable state security agencies, the newly created National Guard, large military formations deployed along the borders and, most importantly, an excellent understanding of what is taking place in the Ukraine. To the west we have basically Conchita Wurst’s Europe, unable to formulate any policy at all (since all orders come from Uncle Sam), with parade-type military forces mostly hallucinating about the “Russian threat”, with security services who can’t even cope with the current flow of immigrants and, most importantly, with a ruling class and population which has no clue or understanding whatsoever of what is happening in the Ukraine.
Russia has another huge advantage: she already controls Crimea and Novorussia and she has already developed the skillset needed to deal with millions of refugees. Yup, while western leaders were busy blaming Russia for everything and making absolutely crazy promises to the Ukrainians, Russia has already had to absorb about 1,5 million refugees which did not only have to be carefully vetted for Nazi saboteurs and terrorists, but then also intelligently relocated. The immigration service did a pretty good job here too by, for example, relocating medical doctors to regions where they were needed (including Chechnia).
All this is to say that when the inevitable explosion happens the Europeans will be the ones to get hit the hardest and who will have to scramble to cope with the situation. Seeing how utterly incompetent and clueless the EU comprador elites are, we can fully expect them to make a total mess of the situation, as they always do, and end up worrying mostly about the political fallout resulting from the disaster.
The Americans, protected by the Atlantic Ocean, will do the usual: provider “leadership” and “support” but not offer a single dollar to address the actual measures needed to deal with the situation. Politically, they will do in the Ukraine what they have always done in such situations: declare victory and leave.
At this point the situation will become so undeniably bad that even western politicians will have to get out of their delusional comfort zone: they will then fly to Moscow to get the Russians to fix this mess.
The Russians ain’t coming (yet again)
I will never cease to mantrically repeat that Russia is much weaker than what most people think. Her landmass is immense and her military arguably the best on the planet, but population is relatively small, and her economy a struggling one. Yes, the future does look bright for Russia, but presently she simply does not have the means to single handedly rescue (resurrect, really) the Ukraine. Not even close.
The reality is that even Crimea has presented Russia with major challenges. After 25 years of total neglect, Crimea basically needs to completely rebuilt most of its infrastructure. The Kremlin has poured billions of Rubles into numerous and large modernization programs, including an immensely expensive but vitally needed bridge over the Kerch strait, and she will continue to rebuilt Crimea in spite of the immense costs involved. Down the road, of course, Crimea will end up being very wealthy, courtesy of an immense touristic potential, the presence of a much expanded Black Sea fleet and because of its strategic location. But for the foreseeable future, Crimea will remain a major burden which Russia will struggle to deal with.
The situation in the Donbass is even bleaker. If Crimean was neglected, the Donbass has been almost totally destroyed. Right now the Russians are paying the pensions of the local population because the Ukronazis have stolen them, in direct violation of the Minsk Agreements. Russia is also alone in supporting the Novorussian republics with humanitarian, medical, technical, administrative and military programs. And while the Novorussians have done an amazing job rebuilding much of Donetsk and a few other cities, most of what lies within artillery range of the Ukronazi forces still lies in ruins and the economy is more or less at a standstill. This will not change until peace truly returns to the region.
What is already quite evident that regardless of who will be in the Kremlin and regardless of how much good will and self-sacrifice the Russians will have, Russia simply does not have the means to salvage the Ukraine. It just ain’t happening. Furthermore, polls show that most Russians are categorically opposed to a full reintegration of the entire Ukraine into Russia. Who could blame them? They are not only acutely aware that the Ukraine has turned into one bloody hell of a mess, but that an entire generation of Ukrainians has now been terminally brainwashed with russophobic hatred. And, frankly, Russia has no use for Nazis of any kind, even if they are fellow Slavs or even if they are basically the very same nation as the Russian one.
So even if tomorrow Petro Poroshenko and his gang decided to invite the Russians to come in an fix this bloody mess, the Russians would decline (so much for the warnings about a Russian invasion!). Oh sure, there are a lot of Ukrainians who kid themselves and think that “the Russians will come and fix this”, but this is a pipe-dream: the Russians ain’t coming. At most, Russia will let the DNR/LNR get back the territories which belonged to their regions and Mariupol might be liberated. But that’s about it. And even if by some miracle the Novorussian tanks end up in Kiev, I don’t see them staying there for very long because the Kremlin fully understands that if they grab it, they own it and they have to fix it. Eventually Russia will, of course, simply be forced absorb the Donbass and make it a part of Russia, mostly because there is no way the Donbass will ever go back to the Ukraine again, but even this process will take time. By then, with both Crimea and the Donbass under her responsibility, Russia will simply be maxed out, economically unable to absorb any further territories (sorry, Balts, no Russian invasion for you either!).
The main problem
So the Russians can’t afford it, the Europeans can’t do anything and the Americans have left. What happens next?
What happens next is that the worse the situation becomes the stronger the obvious need for an international effort will become. Once the Russians tell the Europeans in no equivocal terms “forget about our invasion, we are not doing it” (by then the Europeans will *beg* the Russians to invade!), the Europeans will have to turn to their American masters and tell them that the EU will be regime-changed unless something is urgently done. At which point, Uncle Sam will have to open his purse and offer some real money (assuming the Dollar is still a viable currency when that happens). But even if that happens, I don’t see the main donors agreeing on a Ukrainian project.
In purely political terms, the most likely solution would be to have a neutral Ukrainian (Con-)Federation of some kind. You know – nobody wins, nobody losses and we all remain friends. Sounds nice, of course, but it does not address the main problem of the Ukraine: it is a completely artificial country and it is simply way too big. Add to this a level of corruption and an expertise in misappropriating funds which Somalis can’t even begin to imagine, and you have a country which can probably “absorb” even a major donor’s help effort and remain in ruins. Finally, there is the reality that the folks living in the western Ukraine are completely different from those in the south or east and that even if we remove the Nazi Banderites from the equation there is no such thing as a “Ukrainian nation” with a common project.
Small is beautiful
But imagine if the unitary Ukraine was allowed to break-up, under international supervision and, if needed, even under international military protection, into several smaller states. For one thing this would immediately take care of the neutrality issue: even if western Ukraine joined NATO, Russia would not care much. That would also solve the language problem: not only could each region chose one, or several, official languages, but since these newly independent states would be far more homogeneous they would have much less concerns about accepting a second official language of a relatively small minority (big minorities are usually seen as threat, not small ones). A break-up of the Ukraine into several independent states could also make it much easier for each newly created state to sign bilateral agreements with its neighbors without having to get the agreement of folks living hundred of kilometers away and interested in a totally different set of agreements with their own neighbors. Finally, small states are much easier to integrate into larger unions (EU or EEU) than huge ones.
Breaking up the Ukraine also presents a number of advantages to any peacekeeping/peace-enforcement efforts. For example, while I don’t believe that the Russians would be willing to invade or annex most of the Ukraine, even east of the Dniepr river, I do believe that the Russians would be willing send in a peacekeeping/peace-enforcement force to provide security during a stabilization and transition phase provided that this operation is sanctioned by a UN Security Council resolution and has the support of all the major players. Likewise, NATO might *finally* find a useful role for itself doing something similar west of the Dniepr river (and since NATO countries are the ones who armed the Nazis, it would be only fair to ask them to now disarm them).
Problems, caveats and risks
Of course, just as any other break-up of a country, this plan does have major flaws and creates as many risks as it offers opportunities. First and foremost, breaking-up any country no matter how artificial that country is, just creates more artificial borders, at least temporarily. That, in turns, sharply increases the risks of violence. But let’s be honest here: the Ukraine has already been broken up into at least three parts (occupied Banderastan, Novorussia and Crimea), and a civil war has already broken out. What is left of the Ukraine today is already extremely violent and it is pretty darn clear that things ain’t gonna get better anytime soon. So we have to compare the comparable and not compare an admittedly bad situation to an invented ideal one. Those who will now object to the break-up of the Ukraine should have taken action before 2014 and not supported a coup which was bound to result in a civil war: Humpty Dumpty is broken now, and all that can still be salvaged are his various pieces.
Besides, we have to keep in mind that the Ukraine is a completely artificial country whose current borders are the creation of Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin (something the Ukronazis assiduously avoid remembering). So it’s not like we are discussing the break-up of, say, Japan or France. Finally, I don’t see why some countries are considered prime candidates for break-up (Yugoslavia for example) while other WWII borders would be sacrosanct.
Some will, no doubt, accusing me of being a “Putin agent” for suggesting that the Ukraine ought to be broken up. Others will accusing me of being a CIA/Mossad agent for suggesting that NATO might actually have a legitimate mission west of the Dniepr river. That kind of ad hominems come with the territory and I have long learned to ignore them. All I will reply to those accusations is that while I lay 100% of the blame for the disaster in the Ukraine on the AngloZionist Empire, I also see that now this has become a common problem which will soon turn into a common threat which will require a common solution. I just don’t see anybody capable of bringing back law and order east of the Dniepr besides Russia. Likewise, since Russia will not agree to carry the full Ukrainian burden by herself, I simply don’t see any military forces besides NATO capable of bringing back law and order west of the Dniepr (btw – I use the Dniepr as a convenient conceptual border, but in reality that separation will have to be agreed upon by all parties).
So is the idea of a controlled break-up of the Ukraine a bad one?
Yes, absolutely. It is a terrible one.
But I don’t see a better one.
Hmmm Actually this is a very good plan especially if it is put in place before the situation hits rock bottom but that may not be likely. Maybe a similar process will happen in Syria but hopefully before the situation of total destruction of the infrastructure occurs and at the initiative of the Assad government. That would maybe bring Turkey to its senses quick enough.
A problem is that I cant imagine USA spending so much money into Ukraine and not “using it” before it breaks down, what I mean is that all Ukraine really can give USA is a war with Russia, preferably one that Russia started, or that Russia can’t prove it did not start. So USA can use it for propaganda.. That is basically all Ukraine is worth now, a propaganda stunt.
Before Ukraine collapses it will order Ukraine to send its entire army into Donbass, in a desperate attempt to try to defeat NAF and force Russia to invade to defend NAF.
And UAF is pretty formidable now, UAF has 240 000 troops NAF has 40000 and that does not include all the nazists and NATO mercanaries that UAF has, which likely number over 10 000 for elite battle hardened psychopaths.
Yes, you may say, UAF is corrupt and filled with drugs and alcoholics, and that is true, but not all of UAF, UAF has improved vastly since 2014, and it has gotten 5 times more money.
And you may say, but UAF lost all its gear, well, NATO has been funneling weapons into Ukraine for two years now. And if Hillary is elected, you will start to see ABM missiles at Russia border and Leopard 2 tanks, and Javeline ATM given to Ukraine by NATO.
With the current US Congress, there are currently no problems in getting a Billion or so each year for the Ukraine. The fact that they are fascists has been largely hidden from Americans, who are instead told that the US is ‘supporting democracy’ by giving hundreds of millions a year to them. And, currently both the Democrats and Republicans tend to support this. The Democrats supporting ‘their President’, and the Republicans are generally very pro-war. The current campaign with the Democrats getting to Ukro-nazi levels of Russian-phobia as a way to win votes is only making that worse.
In general, American Congresses are not really democratic. Something like 95% retain their seats in each election, and the only real reason they leave a seat is to get promoted to lobbyist and cash in on big bucks.
So, sadly, the US congress will gladly continue to pump money that way.
Incorrect….Ukraine’s Army is about half that size. They currently have 90,000 men near the front lines!
If NAF calls up all it’s Reserves they can get up to 75k to 80k defending Army.
Something I have not understood, despite thesaker mentioning it several times, is.
Why would it not make a huge difference if USA start to flood Ukraine with their most advanced weapons? I have seen many times, thesaker claim that Ukraine is Russia turf and it wouldnt help UAF at all if they got advanced weapons.
But just look in Syria, the areas were the rebels just have old TOWs are almost impregnable to SAA armor.. if UAF got thousands of the most advanced anti-Tank weapons, this would turn the conflict in UAF favor? Imagine if UAF troops could just pop their heads over a hill, press the trigger, and the missile automatically flew and hit the NAF tank, this would make a difference? And this is just one weapon system. Imagine if UAF was flooded with similar weapons, and since Russia wont attack and NAF wont attack, UAF has all the time they need to train with them.
And that is just anti-NAF weapons, what if Anti-aircraft missiles and ABMs were moved into Ukraine by Hillary, then Russia wouldnt even be able to use their own airforce against Ukraine if there was a Russian-Ukraine war.
Operating a TOW requires more than a popup and fire action. The TOW operator has to constantly monitor the flight of the missile until it hits the target. They are operator optic controlled via a wire control mechanism.
We have seen advances in defenses against this kind of weapon on the Syrian battlefield and it is not nice for the TOW operator who is on the receiving end. On Russia’s doorstep, the defenses would flood in via the North Wind.
The other issue is that most of these more advanced weapons would most likely end up on the Black Market courtesy of the entrepreneurial Ukrainians. Something that the EU and US would not want.
As for the break up of Ukraine, am I the only one who noticed 40 to 80k people from East and West Ukraine marching in the name of peace? Organised by the respective areas churches??
The Westerners under Yanukovych had legitimate gripes against this presidency as did the rest of the country. His thugs would, in typical Ukrainian Oligarch fashion, move in to any viable enterprise and take it over. This though is a problem for the whole country and nothing has changed with Maidan and it has been an issue since the fall of the USSR.
Deal with the Oligarchs and also clean up the historical record of Ukraine (West and East) and most people would be fine with a federalised nation state. Carving up the country is not the way to solving the current issues facing what was once a great republic. Also, like in Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, Finland and even the USA, multiple languages can be used and people of such can live together in peace. Especially when they are just local dialects of each other but again, people should look for the commonalities and what brings them together rather than the divides.
I think the main issue here is again, like in many problems globally, the issue of Empire.
Yes, I know how a TOW works. I was not referring to old TOWS but modern ATM, I was merely using the TOW as an example of how even a primitive weapon system makes a huge difference on the battlefield. In areas where TWO density is high, SAA offensive is slowed to a crawl.
Yes, that is true, I even believe Poroshenko said himself that, that was one of the main reasons USA did not want to send advanced weapon to UAF, because if USA did, the weapons would likely end up with NAF and Russia due to the corruption in UAF.
However that was not what I was talking about, I was talking about Thesaker claim that advanced weapons would not make a difference on the battle field. Something I have a very hard time to believe. Especially given the fact that most NAF tanks are just old unmodernized soviet tanks taken from UAF.
Ukraine would likely to much better if it was carved up, localization of power is always better then centralization. The closer the power is to the people the better, in the case of a fractured nation like Ukraine, that was just mushed togheter by a few communist dictators this is even more true. 80% of GDP for example comes from South-east, these regions would do much better without Kiev stealing their resoruces.
Not only Ukraine, but most nations should splinter into smaller countries, USA would do very well if it was broken up into sevaral states, based on religion, ideology, demograpics, culture and so forth.
How about Javelins? These should be fire and forget systems, where the shooter can seek cover just after shooting out the missile.
If I remember the Saker’s previous articles correctly, the main point is that Ukraine is very deep within the Russian A2AD defense zone.
The US is highly dependent on air-power. They like to fight with their air power dominating above and then local troops on the ground.
In any conflict in the Ukraine, the US would have to be very, very careful about sending aircraft into the Russian A2AD zone if the Russians were making noises that they didn’t want them there.
And if the Russians did decide to open up with full fire-power on positions within Ukraine, artillery, missile launchers, longer-range cruise missiles and with the domination of the air, any air-launched anti-ground missiles would all be a deadly force against any target in Ukraine.
Its not that the Ukraine couldn’t get some shots off. Its more that the guy with the anti-tank launcher is being watched by drones, recon planes or satellites, and that he’s well within range of a lot of firepower should the Russians choose to suppress that ATGM firer.
Meanwhile, the US is outside their A2AD zone, and is outside the range of most support weapons, so the Ukronazis might be getting weapons themselves that they can use to make themselves as targets, but they won’t be getting the levels of supporting fire that the Russians can bring to bear.
Its not that the Ukronazis can’t get off a shot or three, but that they’d be heavily out-gunned and the outcome of such a fight would not be in doubt.
This context refers however to the conflict between Kiev and Donbass, not between USA and Russia. Thesaker claims that no amount of modern weapons will make a difference in the battle between NAF and UAF, and I just cant see how that would be true. Unless I misunderstood something.
Russia will not allow Kiev to take Donbass.
Therefore, if sophisticated weapons are introduced by the US that give Kiev any ideas about moving against Donbass, it means that Kiev will have Russia to contend with and all the attendant consequences that goes with that.
It is that simple.
“it means that Kiev will have Russia to contend with and all the attendant consequences that goes with that.”
-That is exactly what Ukraine and USA wants.
Maybe? But sometimes in the World things just must happen. There is nothing to do.The results to the people of Donbass and Ukraine would be worse to allow the junta to savage Donbass.If it takes war to stop that. Well it will just take war.And once its won,the junta and fascism in Ukraine must be totally uprooted,to the roots.Stalin to avoid discord in Ukraine after WWII followed a policy of allowing the fascists to be forgiven. And now the grandchildren and children of those Ukrainian fascists have turned to destroy the children and grandchildren of the victors in the war.This can never happen again.Fascism and their supporters must never be allowed to recover and bring this horror back in another 70 years. An old saying Russia needs to think about “fool me once,shame on you.Fool me twice,shame on me”.
If Russia is forced to invade Ukraine to save Donbass, then Russia will be kicked out of SWIFT and EU will stop buying Russian gas and oil, and sanctions ten times heavier then those that are on today will be smacked on Russia. The Russian economy will collapse and Russia will fall into an economic-stone age.
NATO propaganda will blurp 24/7 about “Russian brutal assult on defenceless democracy” Finland and Sweden will join NATO, EU-Russian relationship will be gone for a generation, Russia will be forced to occupy all of Ukraine will her economy collapses and NATO funds an constant nazi-insurgency.
To put it simply.
If Russia invades, Russia will be destroyed and USA will win and mankind will fall into darkness.
That is certainly the pro-US view of it. My view is that Russia needs to not use Swift,they and other nations need to form another service. And that Russia needs to move their economy even more to self-sufficiency and to trade outside the EU. Allowing gas and oil sales to the EU to hold you hostage is always a bad idea.The Russian economy will not “collapse” without the West.That again is a fallacy.
But on the other hand the Western economy may very well collapse without Russia. The resources Russia provides the West is essential for their economies. And millions of jobs depend on Russian trade in the West.Cutting of Russian gas and oil would for a great while leave the EU citizens paying double for heating and electricity.Cause some industries to shut down.And unemployment to rise. If Russian companies in retaliation for sanctions didn’t pay back loans to Western banks.Many of those banks could collapse.Economists say one of the causes of the Arab spring,and food price hikes in the World in 2011 was because a bad harvest shorted the Russian grain exports on the World market.Russia is now the Worlds largest exporter.If they withheld that grain as retaliation against the West.It would cause immense problems until other countries could increase production.Western airlines are able in tight markets to survive their competition by offering quick cheap (somewhat) service.If Russia closed the air routes over Asian Russia to any countries airlines that sanctioned them.That would allow Asian airlines to drive Western ones out of the lucrative Europe to Asia market.Causing many of those companies to collapse.Any card the West holds against Russia,Russia holds an equal or better one against the West.
As for Western propaganda.That will never change.Its “getting better” or “getting worse” is not important.Saving your “blood” from fascists “is” important.The time is very near for “a reckoning” between Russia and the West.
The situation in the Donbass is different from the situation in Syria. The Ukrainians are the force that has to take ground. It’s the Ukrainians that want to be rolling armour into the Donbass so it’s the Donbass rebels that would benefit from anti-tank weapons not the Ukrainians.
If the Donbass rebels are using Russian tactics then their response to Ukrainian offensive action will be massive artillery attacks. The USA has supplied the Ukes with counter batter radar but really in order to successfully defeat a dug in army supported by Russian arty they are going to need training, intelligence and air support more than any infantry or anti-armour weapons
Russia should simply tell Europe and America: You break it. You own it.
The Euro-American Empire of Chaos broke Ukraine. Now they can clean up the mess that they created.
80% of Ukraines GDP comes from the south-east. So a pro-Russian South-east, without central or west would be enormously successful.
When has the US, or the EU, for that matter, cleaned up a mess they have made? When have they EVER reconstructed a country they destroyed? Germany after WWII? No; the Germans did that themselves with US capital as a military and commercial investment. Throw money at the Ukraine and it will continue to go down the rat hole.
Both America and its European allies actually have quite an admirable track record of nation building and cleaning up their own “messes.”
Examples include Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Kosovo, which are all shining examples of Euro-American democracy, human rights, the rule of law, and prosperity in action!
Surely, Ukraine will soon be joining this highly coveted list of nations!
Hoo, Anon! Good one, I almost missed it!
Can I quote you, hee hee?
The reason I foresaw the break-up of the Ukraine already 2 years ago was not so much the civil war (even in Rwanda some reconciliation was possible) but the IMF loans and resulting austerity. This will probably also be a delaying factor, since Soros and the banks would be very unwilling to lose their billions owed.
You are not alone. I have been advocating and auguring a break up along the lines you describe.
East of the Dniepr should rightly return, in some way, to Russia, which would not want anything to do with the hot bed of Ukro-Fascism on the West bank and in the Lemberg region anyway.
I do think that Kiev, as the historic city-state/capital of the Russian people, should go back to Russia as well.
I wonder what will become of the various Ukrainian crypto-Fascist ‘congresses’ all around the AngloZionist Empire, which have been flying high before this USSD/EU/NATO experiment with the former ‘The Ukraine’ turned out to be the proverbial ‘pig in a poke’? They will have to be pried away from power in places like Imperial Ottawa with their own Trizubs (tridents).
May Neptune help us all when that process begins.
Just like Syria, Ukraine stands like a disease rattled zombie. The Anglo-Kazarians (a much better term than AngloZionists) broke Ukraine and are going to turn to forcing Balkanization as de facto solution to cover up their actions. The real solution is removal of support to the Nazis in power in Ukraine and a national healing and dialogue about the rape the country experienced.
At this point the cancer of whomever is steering this shitty Titanic of western hegemony must be stopped. They are dangerously close to starting a hot war to cement their positions across presidencies.
Next, you might suggest the BLM/New Black Panther group ought to have their own seperate states in the US to mitigate the national agitation the country is experiencing. You cannot appease those prone to violence nor go around cleaning up their messes. The buck stops somewhere.
How would BLM be a problem if blacks and whites lived in separate homogeneous states. If there were two racially pure states like Malcom X wanted of whites and blacks, both would be rich and happy and internally stable, instead of now as whites and are pitted against eachother to distract from the oligarchy grabbing more power in America and the west.
A great Idea. Grab your world police that will put the hegemon in its place and prevent them supporting the Nazi’s, without initiating MAD, and then you can sort out Ukraine. I am fully behind you.
I agree with you, for different reasons though.
The Saker is suggesting/advocating the AngloZioNazis Globalist project of dismantling nations into smaller entities for easier conversion into the World Empire, the dream of Zionism because the Jews will rule it.
One of the main aims of the EU was to promote regionalism to replace the nation states, whose sovereignty would be further eroded under the deeper integration programme. Smaller states would necessarily welcome being in a larger multinational federation/confederation for economic and security reasons. For instance, both Catalonia and Scotland would only move to independence if their place in the EU was guaranteed, which is almost certain they would.
Yes, the Saker’s suggestion might be the practical one for solving the immediate problems arisen from the coup; but that would facilitate the economic and political subordination to the Globalists and their project for domination.
I can imagine the Khazarian cabals already planning their takeover of the Ukrainian fragments – after all Ukraine has some potential to be exploited for profit, especially the Black Soil and the most impoverished labour force in Eurpe.
Maybe that Black Soil needs to be fertilized again with a few hundred thousand death soldiers, last time was too long ago…
Anonymous on September 01, 2016 · at 7:53 am UTC
Your regionalist plan sure worked well with Greece, and probably Portugal, didn’t it? Viva the Euro!
If Greece had said to the EU “Go to hell, we are getting the drachma back!” things wouldn’t be this bad for them now. And other countries, so-called should watch out as they are next. Globalism is a doomed product of an unsustainable philosophy.
It’s a fact smaller nations are more easy to absorb to larger units. As such I’m not sure slicing Ukraine up would be very good vs. solving the issue with a single leadership change as this is precisely what the colonist-imperialists want. However taking into account the generation of brainwashed russophobics it might be the only choice. I say make Novorrossiya independent, offer Russians living on the other side free passports and leave the rest to wither in the wind of eternal, never fulfilling EU promises of utopia.
I agree with Saker’s analysis, although I found your comment: ” You cannot appease those prone to violence nor go around cleaning up their messes,” interesting.
This is a true fact. Those who seek violence by nature cannot be appeased any other way. But who is that? Who are really the people who seek violence?
The west is busy now in the Asia and of course both Africa and South America, which you’ll notice since the Brasil and Venezuela incidents the US cash flow to Ukraine has drastically diminished.
I believe there are two facets at play here. One who seeks world domination by force, and one who seeks money period. Those who seek money will depart as soon as the resource has been depleted, leaving those who seek violence alone to either complete the job or call it a day and go elsewhere.
imho, we’ve started to see/have seen the exodus of money. There’s little left for them to take anymore as even Poroshenko doesn’t hide is obviously corrupt nature through his vacation amenities widely publicized in the news recently.
After the election we will see what happens. imho, if HRC is elected, then this is what the military force in ukraine has been waiting for, and we will see a huge escalation in that region (the donbass). If however, she is not elected, and I would not hold my breath for that, then we may see a different type of solution in ukraine. One which envolved more negotiations and less amunition, either way though, I do believe the ukraine will have to be broken up at this point. I would also point out their receint reconciliation with Poland as a forebearer of this very topic.
“Those who seek money will depart as soon as the resource has been depleted, leaving those who seek violence alone to either complete the job or call it a day and go elsewhere.” : spot on !!
you just described the 2 sides of the PTB,
the Old-NWO (ex-kings,/churches/nationalists/industrialists/Putin/Trump),
& the New-NWO (financial corps/Anglo-Saxons/Neosons) !!
“They are not only acutely aware that the Ukraine has turned into one bloody hell of a mess, but that an entire generation of Ukrainians has now been terminally brainwashed with russophobic hatred.”
This is the main problem and it cannot be fixed for a long time. Let them rot in hell as that is all they deserve after what has been done in Donbass for last 2 years. I have no sympathy for any of that scum.
Actually, that’s been true since the Russian Civil War (the Whites vs Reds one just after WW1.
The hatreds go back at least that far. The Ukrainians fighting against the Moscow government. Then I’d imagine that Stalin didn’t like them much and thus the famine of the 1930’s.
The CIA and friends have exploited these hatreds, like they always do. But they didn’t create them from scratch.
Oz – That is cynical thinking. I have no sympathy with the criminal regime in Kiev but I sympathise with the many ordinary citizens in western Ukraine who, in 2013, simply wanted an end to political stalemate and self-aggrandisement, corruption, and an opening up of Ukraine to the West (after all, Putin himself started off his reign wanting the same for Russia but the West rejected his overtures). There must be a better solution.
What no-one has mentioned so far is what would happen if, against all probabilities, Donald Trump wins the presidential election.
“I will never cease to mantrically repeat that Russia is much weaker than what most people think.”
Russia and I think China have put much research into defence, rather than offence, or projecting force.
I have the impression, Russia would be immensely strong in defence.
As for Ukraine, it’s past it’s useby date and should be discarded (very toxic) but no doubt the anointed for the whor… whitehouse will recycle and reuse.
The question of defense is in military terms is rather different. The defense, when is successful, it goes on offense, it has to, because has to annihilate the enemy who opted for attack at first. To make this much complicated, there is term . ” preventive attack ” – when the move of an enemy is observed as posing an imminent danger. In my view, this might be the option for any side on East and West. That’s why, many months ago, I have argued that the “Barbarossa 2″ may be on the table. Why else, should the Russian Army locating huge military forces in the Western sector and in the South ? Sometimes, history is repeating herself – are saying many – but the fact is, that the geography cannot be removed or changed, therefore the military planners are doing the same path.
In the film ” Enemy at the Gates ” was a short comment from a Russian sniper, after seeing a German soldier who went on the same path to repair the wire : “that’s why I like the Germans, they are stubborn “
” Sometimes, history is repeating herself – are saying many – but the fact is, that the geography cannot be removed or changed, therefore the military planners are doing the same path.”
Very astute observation. I will add to your statement – the two countries: Romania and Poland that joined NATO after (probably) 1995 and provided land in their country in 2015 for installation of USA’s Missile Defense System for preparation of war against East are the same countries who were allies of Nazi Germany in 1930s (until Polish aristocracy found themselves as Hitler’s prey)…
However, WW III will have one additional route that was not much explored in WW II – now, the use of aerospace force will be equally or more important than the conventional land-water-low altitude air force.
Yes, you’re right, ” the use of aerospace will be more important ” , and that’s the sticking point. As we know, the modern air and ground rocket systems are dependent on satellites, on electronics, the “eyes” of the modern warfare. What if the satellites will be brought down ? In my opinion ( I’m not a military expert ) if a major war is to erupt, these “things” will be the primary targets.
Interesting – the Bandera supporters will never calmly accept the break up of their country.
Poreshenko will be overthrown and they will take over.
Once they do the EU and the USA will walk away leaving the chaos on Russia’s borders
They will then escalate their harassment of the Russian speakers, they will be expelled, pogroms will return, so that they are left with their version of the pure ukraine.
Russia knows this so they tolerate Poreshenko as what will come next will be worse
The Saker is thinking like a bear now. When times are good, When the salmon run is in full swing, the bear just eats the nutrient rich skin, fat and brains and discards the bulk of the salmon (well, thats true for the Alaskan grizzly bears so it should be true for the Russian brown bears also). So nothing is wrong with Russia absorbing the resource rich and industrialized South East regions of Ukraine, they can pay their way. The rest of Ukraine is just agricultural land, so it can be discarded; Russia has got lots of land already. Sad but true.
But at least some expansion will be happening. The bear should really nibble along the belly to reach Odessa, bears always eat the caviar also. Then some of the Stan’s in the East are not exactly resource poor either, worth a taste. Mongolia is so sparsely populated that it should cost nothing to re-absorb. A proper bear is always fat, expansive. A skinny bear don’t look so good.
historical or hysterical precedent-?
The Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic (Russian: Донецко-Криворожская советская республика) was a self-declared Soviet republic of the Russian SFSR founded on 12 February 1918. The republic claimed self-determined territories in treaties of Brest-Litovsk; it was founded three days after the government of Ukraine signed the treaty with Germans, which recognized the borders of Ukrainian People’s Republic, within which the Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic was located. On 29 March 1918 it became a republic within Ukrainian Soviet Republic, where it was merged with Ukrainian People’s Republic of Soviets (capital in Kharkiv, founded December 25, 1917) and Odessa Soviet Republic (founded on March 1st, 1918), until the last was fully occupied by the German forces according to treaties of Brest-Litovsk .
The Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic claimed the territories south of the neighbouring Ukrainian People’s Republic, which included the Donbass, Kharkov, Yekaterinoslav, and part of the Kherson Governorates. In the beginning, the republic’s capital was the city of Kharkiv, but later with the retreat of the Red Guard it was moved to Luhansk. The Soviet government of Russia supported it as the existence of the state set an anarchy in the region.[clarification needed] The newly created government challenged the authority of the General Secretariat of Ukraine and the People’s Secretariat. Some of the commissars held positions of secretaries in another Bolshevik government in Ukraine, the People’s Secretariat.
The Republic was disbanded at the 2nd All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets on 20 March 1918 when the independence of Soviet Ukraine was announced. It failed to achieve recognition, either internationally or by the Russian SFSR and in accordance with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was abolished.
The legacy of the Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic was revived during the War in Donbass that began in 2014. On 5 February 2015, the legislature of the unrecognized separatist Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) adopted a memorandum declaring the DPR to be the legal successor to the Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic, with Artyom as its founding father.
Kharkiv could be a big player claiming some kind of allegiance or autonomy when ukr collapses methinks………………………….hopefully turning all those armament factories into making ploughshares……….tanks into tractors…despite proposals by USA nato to jointly fund the development of weapons……….ooooopss MIC outsourcing their production perhaps, that would go down well with the folks at home????Then that would be a bit nearer to all the future troublespots they wish to create, cheaper than having to fly and ship them from elsewhere’s….
many thanks for article Saker.
You have put the current status of the so-called ‘Ukraine state’ very succinctly and accurately. However, the ‘solution’ you offered i.e. break-up of the state and owning different regions by responsible stakeholders calls for a long and logical debate.
There are two basic aspects which needs discussion:
(1) Concept of ‘country’ and ‘state’ vary with timelines – historically the human civilization developed from primitive hunter-gatherer family around 9000 BC to semi-permanent tribal agricultural settlement, which was a rudimentary socio-political entity around 5000 BC. It metamorphosed into socio-political formations that resulted in City-state republic after 4000 BC where representative of people/citizens coordinated the activities of ‘state’ apparatus in a large settlement inhabited by a tribe, which subsequently gave rise to Kingdom where supreme political ruler exercised sovereign power of ‘state’ over a geographical space populated by one of two well-developed tribal societies. Thereafter, Empires came into being after 2000 BC when kingdoms became expansionist and brought under its authority more territories to control more natural resources and increase numerical strength of subjects that would include multiple ethnic groups, in order to further the interest of the ruling clan and to a lesser extent, the well-being of population belonging to the tribes to whom the ruling clan belonged. Only two forms of geopolitical sovereign entities i.e. Kingdoms and Empires coexisted (with occasional temporary appearance of few City-state republics) on the earth until two new form of political entities appeared: around 1500 AD, Colony which got created when different European kingdoms conquered huge landmass in North America, South America, Africa, Australia, slaughtering technologically less developed local inhabitants/tribes, and created own ethnic settlements, and just after 1700 AD, Nation-state republics, which appeared when state-apparatus of erstwhile kingdoms and colonies were captured by elites/representatives of citizen groups. The ancient and medieval practice of kingdom and empire building by military force could be noticed till end of WWII in 1945 AD. Thereafter, erstwhile kingdoms, empires, and colonies underwent transformation: those territories became sovereign political entities with state apparatus like nation-state republic (inhabited by one/ few ethnic groups), kingdom/sheikhdom (of one/few ethnic groups), and countries (that are neither nation-state republics nor kingdoms, mostly breakaway part of an empire inhabited by multiple ethnic groups – arguably Russia, China fall in this category). Many scholars prefer a term ‘civilization-state’ for describing these ‘countries’.
Throughout the history of mankind, cycle of creation-stabilization-destruction-recreation of ‘political entity’ in a geographical region has been a reality, and that has been driven by the political and economy minded elites-aristocrats of the related society. Hence, cherry picking of a particular region (in this case, ‘Ukraine country’) as ‘artificially created’ is hardly logical. That way, current ‘India’ is also an ‘artificially created country’ (by the British imperialist power who trifurcated the old Mughal empire of the subcontinent, and added south Tibet from Imperial China to what is known currently as ‘India state’). Similarly, post USSR break-up some countries got created out of the blue (like Kirghizstan, Tajikistan) where the society never in their entire history of existence exercised any political sovereignty.
On a realistic note, since we are in the 21st century, we can look back till 1700AD (that is a 300 year window), and not beyond that. Even then, what we find is a startling fact. Starting from 1800AD to 1991AD, most of the ‘countries’ that appeared in the maps of Africa, South America, North America continent, west Asia, south Asia, south-east Asia were artificially created by the west European imperialist capitalist powers. Only nation-states of west Europe, central Europe and few other countries like Russia, China, Turkey, Vietnam, Korea, Japan etc. can be termed as naturally evolved countries.
(2) Concept of ‘stakeholders’ and ‘people’ vary with timelines – In ancient and medieval world, economic activities apart from agriculture were modest, where craftsmen would convert the raw materials using mostly hand-operated tools for production of goods. Throughout the ancient and medieval times, the political economy of every political entity (kingdoms, empires ) was structured by the ruling clans to favour the elite-aristocrat groups who belonged to any of the four categories: controllers of state apparatus, controllers of religious domain, owners of natural resources (land in addition to subsistence agriculture), and owners of commodity trading. The common people living in an entity who were not part of any of the elite groups, could be broadly categorized into local population, slave population – the former belonged to the clan/community that rules the land and undertakes successful military campaigns against neighbours, while the later will be the group of people from the neighbouring political entity who would lose the war. While local population would be toiling for their livelihood (primarily, in agriculture) and lived a relatively free life, the enslaved population were expected to do all types of hard-work in lieu of food and shelter, and were not supposed to lead a life of their own.
The industrial society originated in Europe after 1700 AD introduced the practice of large-scale production of goods in factory from raw materials drawn from the nature using machinery and transport mechanism (which again are manufactured using raw materials) that needs energy extracted from the nature for its operation. The world economy since 1800 AD is being driven around the elements of industrial economy (with existence of increasingly marginalized feudal economy) – the land for raw material sourcing, the land for manufacturing factory and supporting activities, the land and water for energy generation, and the society/region with large population as ‘consumer markets’, these are the most sought after elements to prosper in the industrial economy. The political economy of the world in modern times witnessed the rise of another three categories of elite-aristocrat-oligarch groups: owners of industry and services business, controllers of finance, specialists of industry and services business over and above the traditional four categories. The common people who were not part of any of the elite groups, could be broadly categorized into peasants with agricultural land, general population without any land possession, specially-skilled population – general population would be toiling in their various professions that will require low degree of skill for their livelihood, while the specially-skilled population would have relatively better lifestyle by contributing to the industrial economic activities driven by the elite people, and by providing services like education, health to the entire population.
When we discuss about who should be stakeholders in a country that include external elite-aristocrat-oligarch groups, internal elite-aristocrat-oligarch groups, and most importantly the common people of the land (has to be internal).
‘Ukraine’ is surely an ‘artificial construct’, but it is not an exceptional one. Agree that ‘external stakeholders’ must get involved, but there has to be involvement of common people.
There are many probable outcomes of the mess in ‘Ukraine’. I will put to use two simple but robust philosophies to suggest an outcome that may be durable even if there will be associated costs. From the socio-cultural perspective, a ‘civilization’ certainly trumps any other formation like ‘community’ or ‘caste’ or ‘ethnicity’. In the late ancient history, Kievan Rus and Muscovy Rus were competing kingdoms of the same ‘Slavic Rus civilization’ for power and prestige. In the medieval history, Mongols defeated both, and post-Mongol era saw Muscovy Rus got transformed into Russian empire that included the Kievan Rus regions and much more. During all these centuries, the entire region was populated with Slavic peoples with Orthodox Christianity faith – the social norms, language, religion, art and literature, science and technology all formed a Russian civilization that is a pride of everyone residing in the vast landmass. Except the (currently) west Ukraine Galician region (Volyn, Rivne, Lviv, Ternopil, Zakarpattia oblasts), all other regions (novorossia, malorossiya) belong to Russian civilization. Hence, Russian leadership and people should seriously consider Ukraine (except Galician region) as a brotherly ‘country’ which needs help and support from ‘external stakeholders’ to free themselves from the clutch of fascist oligarchs.
From the political economy perspective, it will be worthwhile to follow the ‘Marxist’ philosophy. We know that the elite-aristocrat-oligarchs always strive to achieve maximum (political) power and wealth of the region to which they belong to as well as other regions as far as possible. Thus the abysmal economic condition of Ukraine (all usual indicators like GDP, per capita GDP, export, government debt, percentage of peoples below poverty line, income disparity, education status, healthcare status etc. show a continuously downward slide since past two decades) is a result of corruption, nepotism and indifference of the (internal i.e. Ukrainian and external i.e. Russian, German, Polish) elite-oligarch groups. However, during the past two decades the ultimate losers are the 90% people who had better lifestyle, healthcare, education, and employment during the USSR era (before 1990) because the ruling Communist Party followed certain principles of Marxism to provide basic amenities to all peoples. The Ukrainian people need help from internal political parties and external political parties (especially Russia) to create a society based on Marxist philosophy of humanity and equality where the (Ukrainian) fascist capitalist oligarchs and (Russian) liberal capitalist oligarchs will be thrown out from the power and from the country.
It is 2016. We are one year away from the centenary of epoch-making Bolshevik Revolution – a revolution which, for the first time in the history of mankind, successfully established a ‘country’ where 90% people will lead the political and economic activities. Yes, the ruling party leadership had been infested by AngloZionist stooges all through its lifecycle from 1903 to 1991, who ultimately caused its downfall thus ending the great social-political-economic experiment. ‘States’/’Countries’ and ‘Political Parties’ can decay and die, but ‘Ideology’ which is based on truth-justice-equality-morality never dies. In 2017, while coming back to the house of Russian civilization can the union of Ukraine-Belarus-Russia become the beacon for the revival of Marxist society for the entire world ?
Wow. Another scholarly and moral tour de force by SB which (for me at least) immensely broadens the “future of Ukraine” debate started by Saker in time and space back several centuries (Millenia, actually…..) and extends it to all regions of planent earth inhabited by homo sapiens. And not so sapiens.
Only the Marxist marination of this magnificent stew gives me slight pause before requesting a second helping, and that only because of my awareness of the tentacles of Empire and oligarchy cradling KM for much of his life. Friedrich Engels, David Urquhart for example.
Haven’t read the entire link, and don’t swear by any of it, except my own observation that even the most talented intellectuals and German revolutionaries need to eat, need sponsors, and those sponsors have their own purposes. And if you give the devil a ride, he may just end up doing the driving. But the link does show the association of these 3 men, at least.
However, that having been said, and being a proponent of both rich complexity (with occasional retracements to overarching summarizations…..) I don’t throw the baby (truth) out with the bathwater (ideology, from my particular prejudice or tendency).
Why? Well simply because many Marxists who I will never 100% agree with I can largely agree with on at least the scale of CARE. In that area, regardless of other imperfections they do beat Austrian School types, Ayn Rand individidualists, etc and cheerleaders for the AZ Empire hands down, by an immense moral margin.
And for that reason what SB has served, IMHO is worthy of being next comment selected, even if the practice is to wait 2 weeks or more between selections, and this one doesn’t make it.
Saker puts the microscope on the Ukraine, from the standpoint especially of Russia, and Russia’s need to care about a whole lot more than the Ukraine, it (Russia) being, once again, the rock blocking the path to world hegemony by an Empire of evil doers.
Straight Bat brings a wide angle lens from near earth orbit into the discussion.
You have rightly pointed out about my intention to put the debate on “future of Ukraine” back to more than a millennium as well as to bring a wide angle lens into the ‘picture’.
I stand by my point – in shortest possible description i tried to prove that except few countries, most of the countries on the current atlas got artificially created due to various ‘reasons’ by various ‘actors’. The boundaries of west Asian countries like Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq were drawn by west European imperialist powers during WW I and II. There has to be a locus standi for identifying Ukraine for dismemberment while maintaining unity of Syrian state. ‘Orthodox civilization’ is what binds Russia-Belarus-Ukraine, so bringing the non-Galician Ukraine into the Russian civilizational sphere is the only truly patriotic and humanitarian option (even if that costs a lot). And, the question arises – who will bear the cost ? This is where I fall back on Marxist philosophy of ‘egalitarian society’ (which you agreed as having ‘immense moral margin’). The aristocrats-oligarchs run the economy in the current industrial society to enrich themselves with power and wealth. But, isn’t mother earth (who provides materials and energy) the ultimate source of their wealth ? Is it not that The Almighty created all human beings equal ? Then, the poor and destitute 90% of population of any landmass should also own the natural resources and energy in their landmass – thus it is a false presumption that the ‘state’/’oligarchs’ bear the cost. The common people of Russia-Belarus-Ukraine with same civilizational background can create an union where 90% population will lead the political power, own the economic system and create a equal and just society. Who borne the cost of reconstruction of USSR and all east European countries ? Even after complete destruction by Nazi Wehrmacht, the Soviet society built the entire infrastructure and industry – how could the Communist party manage the cost ? The economic records of east Europe from 1945 to 1985 (which the AngloZionist media and academia wants us to forget) shows the impressive socio-economic-cultural achievements of that period !
Finally, I won’t respond in detail to your point on collaboration between ‘revolutionary’ Marx and ‘reactionary’ British elites because that’s another subject (of anti-Marxist propaganda) which needs full scale discussion. The historical fact remains that Marx had been the relentless fighter against capitalist imperialism led by the AngloZionist reactionary elites-aristocrats all through his life. The AngloZionists have been continuously working to wreck Marxism from ‘outside’ (the liberal democrat, the neocon etc.) as well as from ‘inside’ (the Trotskyte, the cultural leftist etc.) because they know this is the most potent ideological adversary. The same AngloZionists spread lies about Marx being anti-religion and anti-civilization through selective quoting from Marx’s writings without detail background. The truth remains Marx propagated ideas which are primarily on socio-economic and socio-political domain, while a true Marxist society will chose its culture and religious faith primarily based on tradition !
That’s how I synthesize a probable Slavic Orthodox Marxist society comprising of countries like Russia-Belarus-non Galician Ukraine-Georgia-Armenia-Moldova (a large civilization).
Wonderful comment, I can add to this only my experience in life.
Thanks for your kind supportive words.
The other day I went through conversation here among you, Bro, and few others about the past experience of yours and Martin from SEB – it was really informative and critically analytical. I can understand and appreciate when you say “ I can add to this only my experience in life “.
It is wonderful, in my sixties, to have more agitation and rethinking going on, and articles piling up that I need to read (where did those links go about Eastern vs Western Christianity.???..before I could get organized to print them or save them to a folder for near future reference, I paused from work, stuck my little toe in a stream (thread or two) running through the Vineyard of the Saker, and got swept a hundred miles downstream…………) than I ever had in my twenties or thirties!!!
I’m terribly excited about three days off in a row coming up Sat-Mon. So much so that I got up today at 4 am raring to go. One day too early!
” It is wonderful, in my sixties, to have more agitation and rethinking going on, and articles piling up that I need to read “
Situation is almost same for me … At this retired period and ripe age, I am feeling great excitement and enthusiasm – as a true human being, on personal capacity, there is so much to be done !
I have a bit broader agenda compared to your Eastern-Western Christianity – i’m trying to understand the detail interactions-interfaces-resultants among the 3 Abrahamic religions, which in my view, contributed very significantly towards shaping up of the history of mankind (except the Chinese civilization sphere).
Wish you a nice week-end !
The problem with all this, mate, is that the communists turn out to have been the Zionists all along, in disguise and we are no nearer an exit from the trap than at the beginning.
Bolshevism, fascism, socialism, Zionism, they have many words for the same thing and hundreds of disguises.
I accept though that most people don’t get that.
It’s can be hard to understand the notion that the elite funds both sides in it’s engineered conflicts.
“The problem with all this, mate, is that the communists turn out to have been the Zionists all along, in disguise and we are no nearer an exit from the trap than at the beginning.
Bolshevism, fascism, socialism, Zionism, they have many words for the same thing and hundreds of disguises.”
I understand your point. As I noted in my response to Bro, given above, I will repeat the same thing. AngloZionist cabal coopted Marxist political parties across different countries by placing stooges all along (for example, in Russia, Trotsky tried to wreck Bolshevik party, a task which was taken up Khruschev, and finally Gorbachev). AngloZionist cabal created sham concepts/ideologies like ‘cultural leftism’ which denigrate Marxism. AngloZionist cabal promoted fake political parties like ‘socialist’ / ‘social democrats’ which divert common peoples struggle towards meaningless objectives. Thus, for past 150 years, so many schemes were put to practice which resist true Marxian ideas taking root in any society in the world.
However, Marxist ideas will remain a strong fort among the rioting aristocracy-oligarchy and their lackey in the media and academia.
Einstein quote : we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Says it all really.
Since the capitalist imperialist parasitic society had been created by the AngloZionists, no matter how much effort and ‘fiat’ money they deploy, the mess can not be solved by the AngloZionist hegemonic World Order.
Just the other day I read this:
“The story was not over, rectifies Fukuyama”
“What took Karl Marx demonized and made him a formidable adversary was not having preached revolution, but have demonstrated its inevitability, though perhaps happen differently than the way he dreamed it.” Jorge Gomez Barata.
“I defend the State-building as one of the most important issues for the world community, as weak or failed countries cause much of the most serious problems that the world faces: poverty, AIDS, drugs or terrorism. ” This idea we could never associate with the neoliberal thinking, which is characterized by a defense of free enterprise and State retrenchment. But interestingly is what says Francis Fukuyama in his book “Statebuilding: governance and world order in the XXI century”, 2004.
(…) In the nineties of the last century the triumphalist optimism of neoliberalism in vogue was rampant in the world. After the failed socialist experiments ( well, it should be discussed more that of the “failure”), or rather, after the media presentation that made the victorious capitalism of events marking those years, there seemed not being plenty of room for alternatives . With irrepressible force, neoliberal policies swept the planet. As we were assured by their mentors, by force they would bring peace and happiness. Thus they obscured from the middle, at a stroke, the incommensurable achievements that had brought all those socialist experiments, in all their expressions: in Bolshevik Russia, in China of Mao Tse Tung, in revolutionary Cuba, in Vietnam, in the Sandinist Nicaragua ( when Daniel Ortega was a guerrilla commander and not a businessman as he is now ). In all these experiences, -we must never forget-, was finished hunger, chronic malnutrition, illiteracy, the exclusion of the forever excluded. In all these experiences -we must never forget- people power was a fact, women substantially improved their condition of eternal oppressed, there were no street children, sport and culture became state policy and scientific achievements ( Nobel prizes in bulk ) shone sparkling. No country involved with neoliberal plans ( read: ruthless capitalism without anesthesia ) achieved ever something of that; on the contrary, in all ( In all !, both affluent First World as among the poor South ) poverty frighteningly grew, although there were supermarkets crowded with Third World products.
But today, two and a half decades after the war cry uttered by Fukuyama and supported by the “No alternative” Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher, reality shows us something quite different to peace and planetary happiness. Capitalism grew, no doubt, but on condition of continue generating more poverty and devastating the planet. Wealth is distributed more and more unequally, so we can say that if anything grew, is injustice. And wars have not only disappeared but became a vital element in the global economy; in fact, in the dynamics of the main power, the United States, is the real engine, occupying about a quarter of its potential and defining its internal and international political strategy. But even worse: war strategies continue to dominate the global political landscape, taking the possibility of a nuclear confrontation as a real circumstance, which would bring the worst tragedy for humanity. So History was not over. Can we remain impassive at such intellectual stupidity? Should we not react to this academic swagger and raise our voice? History continues, and although is written by the winners, there it is, devouring human beings, changing, continually transforming, making us see that by the “official” there is another History: The true.(…)
(…)The problem is not in the State, if it must be strong or weak: the problem is still the class struggle, the actual structure of society, which the State is its expression. It is finished the class struggle? If so, why the power centers continue to store weapons and reviled Marxism as its worst enemy?
After early years of shocking shock, both popular field as the objective analysis of the facts were out of shock, it became evident that this moment of euphoria of big money was a short-term win, huge no doubt, but only that : a point win (a battle) in a long history that continues. Why would History end? (…)
(…) History is not over, because the same matrix of human being is this: history, becoming the flow. Being and Time (history), Heiddeger said. “We can not step twice into the same river,” said Heraclitus of Ephesus two and a half millennia ago in ancient Greece. He was not wrong: the story goes, flows, it does not stop. The -exultant capitalism, victorious, full of glamor and glory at present, but that hold water everywhere is just a moment of that history. Nothing is eternal. Yes, there are alternatives! – should be answered. While there are injustices there will be one who raise its voice and oppose them, although today the protest is moored, criminalized and there are attempt to replace it with snake oil. That endless struggle is the history of our species!”
Thanks for the translated article that perfectly depicts what ‘capitalist imperialism’ has brought to the people of the world.
Plunder-rape-torture-killing: all sorts of inhuman unjust brutal treatment were/are being meted out to the defenseless destitute common people of almost every society during at least past 300 years, by the locally and globally organized gang of the elite-aristocracy-oligarchy-kleptocracy led by the AngloZionist cabal.
you are thinking humanely, you see the current and future crises to Russia, Europe & the Ukraine & you propose a way to deal with it. I support your solution.
The Ukraine is a _perfekt_ success and a lever for Western elites, who want to punish the Russian Mir for saying Njet to the Empire (Syria, shale gas in Donbass, partition of North pole, …).
We see states as institutions for providing peace and serenity and prosperity to all people, wheras Western elites consider them as actors for providing _them_ peace, serenity and prosperity.
Murrica is in free fall, but wants to stay on top of its “allies”. Russia, China, India will not fall with them, they have liberated themselves from the hegemon in the last two years. The main question is, will there be leaders in Europe and Japan, keeping the interests of their peoples, or will the borders of the empire be set ablaze in wars, as it always has been when empires crumbled in history?
“Apparently “schenevmerla” is not only under the external control of the US civilian, but also becomes the object of the US military occupation.
Officially, the Ukrainian territory for the purpose of military training from April this year, is the formation of 173 Airborne Brigade of the US Army. She is stationed at the Yavoriv training ground in the Lviv region. But the US military published pictures in which representatives have the 2nd Infantry Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division of the US and Ukrainian train warriors. Plus, seen the US military with distinction marks, indicating that they belong to the 4th Motorized Division, which is deployed as a whole in the state of Colorado.
How many more units of the US Army, not to mention the secret services and mercenaries are now in Ukraine? It seems that the country has finally drawn into the orbit of the United States military. It is no longer necessary as the NATO.
Ukrobanderovets Tajik origin Mustafa Nye has earned its popularity among svidomitov active actions on the organization euromaidan and calling for the overthrow of “the bloody regime of Yanukovych.”
And now Mustafa switched to “gang Poroshenko looters” and called for a new revolution in Ukraine. A sort of a permanent revolutionary style Judas Trotsky …
And generally Hire diligently fulfill the order of the Washington Regional Committee, which requires an even larger destabilization in Ukraine, that in this country no one with whom to negotiate. And that means that the bloody conflict could continue indefinitely, drawing into its vortex neighboring countries and first of all – Russia.
Under this title yesterday in Donetsk rally memory of children killed in the civil war unleashed by the Nazi military junta. About a thousand people of Donetsk gathered in the town square. Several hundred people have assigned to a specially established on an area of the banner with photographs of dead children flowers, lit candles, brought many toys, as well as made of paper angel figurines.
The event was attended by the Human Rights Commissioner of the DNI Daria Morozova, deputy commander of the operational command of the DNI Eduard Eduard Basurin, first deputy head of the central executive committee ODDR Andrew Kramar, representatives of the Ministry of Information DNI, as well as the parents of the victims.
After the signing of the “Minsk-2” children continue to die and get injured. Since the beginning of this year, injuries of varying severity were 14 children. Since the beginning of the conflict only in the DNI killed 73 children, 65 of them died from the signing of the Minsk agreements, the so-called “Minsk-2”. This resulted in disappointing statistics Daria Morozova. “Statistics is no longer just a set of numbers when it comes to children’s lives, – Morozov said. – We are gathered today to honor the memory of the children who no longer go to school. As Commissioner for Human Rights would like to appeal to the world community to be heard, to feel our grief. ”
a ukraine perspective?
The director of the Institute of Strategic Studies “Nova Ukraina” Andrew Ermolaev. His views he shared at a press conference in Kiev.
“War of the challenges and threats of today, the state has also become a profitable business. We are, in fact, going through another stage of primitive accumulation of capital, only in the active role taken by those who dispose of the military budget, providing contraband routes, roofs about military business. And the truth about the war is not only connected with the social tragedy, but also with the way the redistribution of property, someone who defended, who at this earned.
It is no coincidence therefore waiting for the 2016 elections possible in the Donbass, Minsk 3 Now turn ultimatums. And gentle peace enforcement, which we observed in March-May, may turn ultimatum peace enforcement.
Those who represent Ukraine to lose the confidence of Western partners. Increasingly, in an interview with representatives of the authorities of Western countries heard assessment that sanctions against Russia as a tool to overcome the crisis in Ukraine are ineffective. We need other measures.
Roughly speaking, Ukraine will be forced to a painful peace formula by the end of this year. What is the turn – will show next month and a half. But I am convinced that our Western partners will not wait until 2017.
Therefore, in the autumn we will be faced with a choice: peace and support of Ukraine or war and isolation, “- said the expert.”
The publication The Nation writes that the US provide Ukraine military and financial aid, and Kiev, in turn, is the possibility to sell weapons to other countries, bypassing international law.
“Self-proclaimed experts in Russia love to talk about the fact that Moscow wants to take him into service WikiLeaks , refugees, robotic cockroaches and even Jedi tricks, but it is better to look at what is happening in their country. All these trumped up charges against Russia can be contrasted quite a real arms role in US foreign policy in recent years, “- notes the publication.
In particular, since US President Barack Obama came to power, the export of arms from the United States rose sharply, which became a gold mine for producers of weapons. At the same time, as noted by The Nation, US arms dealers are betting on a cold war with Russia.
“Not surprisingly, that Ukraine, which is at the forefront of this new Cold War, in the spring of 2014 turned into a veritable arms bazaar”, – stated in the material. By the end of 2015, Kiev received from Washington in military aid worth more than $ 780 million and loan guarantees 2 billion, with the President Poroshenko did not even hide the fact that the IMF and the money he intends to spend on the war.
“Ukraine has become a supermarket of illegal weapons. In addition, the country has turned into an underground market where weapons fall into the government, dominated by the most odious regimes in the world … There is an interesting question: how a country that constantly claims that it ostensibly reflects Russia’s attack on its territory, can afford to sell weapons for abroad “- says The Nation.’
Moscow welcomes a ceasefire agreement between the conflicting sides in Donbass, and hopes that it will be fully respected bringing the long-awaited progress in the implementation of the Minsk peace accords, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday.
The ceasefire agreement between the Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics and the Kiev authorities comes into force at midnight August 31.
“We are hoping that the implementation of this agreement by all sides of the conflict…will allow to make a progress in the implementation of the Minks complex of measures and intensify joint efforts in search of compromises on all aspects of a peaceful resolution of the crisis,” Peskov told reporters.
Peskov stressed that Moscow was expecting Kiev to back the ceasefire with concrete steps in drafting and adopting laws on a special status of DPR and LPR, as well as on amnesty and local elections in Donbass.
“We are calling on the OSCW Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine to provide the necessary assistance to the implementation of the ceasefire agreement in line with its current mandate,” he added.
DONi News Agency
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov will meet in Moscow on September 8 with the Special Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office in Ukraine, Martin Sajdik, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told a briefing on Wednesday.
She said on September 8-9 Martin Sajdik “will make a working trip to Moscow, during which he will meet with the Russian foreign minister”. The diplomats “plan to discuss in detail the issue of the crisis settlement in Donbass with an emphasis on a need for an urgent implementation by the parties in the conflict of commitments on the Minsk Package of Measures,” Zakharova said.
Unfortunately, we are stating that despite painstaking work in the Contact Group of Martin Sajdik and his colleagues – coordinators of the working subgroups, as well as readiness of Donetsk and Lugansk representatives for compromises, the implementation of the Minsk agreements is stalling, Zakharova said. ”
The Kremlin has not ruled out a direct dialogue between Moscow and Kiev if the discussion is not devoted to the implementation of the Minsk agreements as Russia is not a party to the conflict in Donbass.
Asked if the Kremlin admits the possibility that Ukraine and Russia could hold talks on Donbass without mediators, Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: “It depends on what is particularly discussed concerning Donbass.”
There is the need to understand what will be discussed. If this concerns the implementation of the Minsk agreements, then of course the fulfillment should be primarily ensured by Donbass and Kiev, Peskov explained, reports TASS.
Moscow is not a party to this conflict and it’s unlikely that you will find any point in the text of the Minsk agreements that contains any obligations of Moscow in implementing these or those proposals. Moscow is the guarantor of these agreements along with Germany and France.
About the outlook for settling the Ukrainian crisis Peskov said that “no progress is in sight at the moment and, as before, one can regret the lack of any movement forward by Kiev in implementing the Minsk Accords.”
DONi News Agency
Ukraine should stop trying to return back Donbass.
However, this decision will set a bad precedent, it is absolutely right, because too much money is necessary for restoration of the region.
Such opinion was expressed by former press-secretary of special monitoring mission OSCE in Ukraine Maik Botsyurkiv to CNN channel.
’OSCE is subjected to danger nearly every day. And we have to ask: what will be further? Kiev will have to pay billions of dollars to restore Donbass if it returns back again. Moreover, lots of mines are there. Roads and bridges, houses and airports were destroyed. It will be very expensive to establish control over this territory’, Botsyurkiv announced.”
Vultures yelping-Republic developing, Vladislav Breeg (VIDEO)
on: August 31, 2016
Vladislav Breeg reported about ceasefire regime since 31 August 00.00 in Donbass, and about populated houses damaged in Yasinovataya by Kiev fighters.
People’s Council Deputy of the DPR said that Ukrainian side announces that talks with LDPR can last to 10 years. ‘We have densely-populated industrial strong region, and I think that negotiation will not last so long. However, it is obvious that they will be in 2017, because our Ukrainian “partners” do nothing, they say that they are waiting for elections in the USA’, Vladislav Breeg announced.
The deputy pointed out also that bad peace is better that a great war.”
‘Kiev economists estimate that compared with the previous year, in 2016 the amount of funds allocated from the state budget for education has decreased by 5.3% in nominal terms (from 74.9 billion. UAH. Up to 70.7 billion. UAH). . But in reality (adjusted for inflation) – more than a third.
Analysts say that despite a large number of universities in Ukraine, the quality of higher education remains low. Obsolete material base of universities, small salaries of teachers and high levels of corruption have led to disastrous results: among 288 Ukrainian universities there is no one who would rise above the 400-th line in the QS1 of Fame. For comparison, in the UK of all 160 accredited universities 48 are included in the world ranking the top 400.
Destroyed in the Ukraine and the system of vocational education. Vocational schools destroyed, the government hastily close the “hole” in the financing of vocational training and promises to reform, but without financing.
But this year the Ukrainian government maydanschikov initiates another “patriotic” innovation: September 1, all students should come to their schools in embroidered shirts. About trousers is not talking …”
“Once again under fire point of deployment of Russian representatives in the Joint center for control and coordination of the cease-fire in the village of Oleksandrivka on the western outskirts of Donetsk. Ukrainian security officials corrected the fire with the help of unmanned aircraft – said the deputy commander of the operational command of the DNI Eduard Eduard Basurin. Victims and survivors escaped, the Russian officers were quickly evacuated from the place of fire.
Ukrainian security forces over the past day 400 times fired at the front-line territory of Donetsk People’s Republic, – said Eduard Eduard Basurin today. According to the command from the enemy positions were fired 107 artillery shells caliber 152 and 122 mm, 182 mines are 120 mm and 82 mm and eight tank shells. In addition, the attacks were rocket-propelled grenades and small arms. Four civilians were injured and one died. It damaged 16 houses in Donetsk and Yasinovataya, as well as damage received kindergarten in the Petrovsky district of the capital.
The representatives of the Special OSCE monitoring mission recognizes that a mortar attack on the village Raevka Slavyanoserbsk area was made from the territory controlled by the APU, – the Minister of Internal Affairs LC Major General police Igor Cornet. Recall that last night APU shelled the village Raevka Slavyanoserbsk area, according to preliminary data, two private houses damaged by shelling. Currently, on-site fire works representatives of the OSCE and the Joint Centre for Monitoring and Coordination of the ceasefire.
Kyiv security forces over the past day eight times fired at positions of the People’s Militia LNR – reported today in the defense of the department. With direction Popasnaya artillery caliber 152mm fired district Pervomaisk. Also from Popasnaya tank shells were fired village Kalinovo-Borschevatoe. Kyiv security forces used artillery caliber 152 mm at the shelling of villages and Merry Hill Kalinovo. In the area of the monument to Prince Igor opened fire from three directions Villages Lugansk, used 82-mm mortars and small arms. Near the village of Yellow under fire from automatic mounted grenade launchers. “No casualties”, – the People’s Militia.”
anna-news articles are google translated.
great analysis once again. thank you kindly Saker.
but after all the long winded comments from others i see this.
if there has been such a buildup of militery in ukraine , the west will not back off until it is forced to.
unless , this is all just cold war rhetoric gone large.
On September 1, 2016 in Ukraine by 25% increased electricity tariffs. According to the decision of the National Commission, carrying out state regulation in the areas of energy and utilities, will be held on September 1 in Ukraine, increase in electricity tariffs.
The growth rates – up to 25%. Now, for the consumption of electricity in the amount of 100 to 600 kW per hour, Ukrainians will have to pay 1.29 hryvnia instead of 0.99 as it was before. The tariff for socially disadvantaged groups such as large families, families with adopted children will pay 71.4 hryvnia per month, regardless of the amount of consumption.
Since 2014 electricity tariffs in Ukraine have grown almost doubled, rising from 0.28 to 0.71 hryvnia. At the same time the debt to pay for housing and communal services in July was 12.5 billion hryvnia “….http://www.anna-news.info/node/63686
According to the State Statistics Service of Ukraine, at the end of July 2016 the debt population to pay for central heating and hot water amounted to 5 billion. UAH.
So, at the end of July this year the debt of the population for the content of houses and buildings and houses adjoining areas is 2.5 billion .. UAH for the central water supply and drainage -.. 1.8 billion USD, with the removal of household waste -.. 0.4 billion USD, electricity – 2.8 billion UAH..
at the same time accrued during January- July 2016 budget (grants for reimbursement for housing and communal services) organizations providing household gas supply services exceeds the value of the services actually consumed by 11.0 bln. UAH.
In this case, the average charges for utility services, taking into account electricity (based on 150 kW • h) for the account of one owner in July 2016 amounted to 403.7 UAH.”
“The Cabinet of Ministers extended the personal sanctions against 388 individuals and 105 entities of Russia, in addition, this list has been updated with new 250 individuals and 46 legal entities. This was announced by First Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Economic Development and Trade of Ukraine Stepan Stepan Kubiv.
“We extended the decree unanimously personal sanctions in relation to the 388 105 individuals and legal entities,” – said Stepan Stepan Kubiv at a press conference after a cabinet meeting. He added that this list was supplemented by 250 individuals and 46 legal entities.
Recall that in the Ukraine in 2015 are restrictive measures against Russian individuals and legal entities. Different kinds of sanctions on the ban on entry to the arrest of property, introduced a period of one year. The sanctions list in September 2015 were 388 people and 105 companies.”
plus i had posted whole lot of stuff in current cafe……
Generally I’m against any forced break-up of nations as this can be a very painful experience (knowing and looking at the western Balkan here). However, if reconciliation is truly impossible at this stage, and this may be the case as I have never been to Ukraine. Then the said solution offered by the Saker maybe the best out of bad options to chose.
The question here is, would Ukrainians get a say in this, or should it be a decision between Moscow and Washington. Only time will tell what truly comes out of this mess, the best Russia can do at this stage is guard its borders, maintain support for Novorussia and watch the regime in Kiev implode. The next move from the empire will come after the US elections, this much is certain.
“I wonder what will become of the various Ukrainian crypto-Fascist ‘congresses’ all around the AngloZionist Empire, which have been flying high before this USSD/EU/NATO experiment with the former ‘The Ukraine’ turned out to be the proverbial ‘pig in a poke’?”
Surely they want to live as heroes in their glorious Ukraine?
Nice piece. Hope it will materialise (for NVR). The extent of who’s taking the largest swathes of the country will depend on many factors:
-reall population support to each side once junta collapses
-real militaristic goals on each side. NATO to be kept of range from Ruskie nuclear deterent in the urals, that is more than 2,000-2,500 KM (definitely west of the dniepr north and south)
-potential unifying candidate (if such a candidate exists) suceeding Porkie, if nazis do not acess power.
-external countries territorial claims (Hungary with Transacaprtia, Poland with Galicia, maybe even romania for small parts of Odessa region + snake island)
-from the above, who will call the shots first (NVR or Banderastan) and how it woudl affect the rest of the country. If territorial claims from Hungary and Poland are moderate/realistic (and if tey take the population that goes with it), it might be best that they call the shot first with no or little opposition and see how it affects the rest of the country. (esp central/northern ukraine, aka Malorossia). Technically MLR would be “the rest of the country” if NVR and Galicia breaks away.
Thsi could be either a third entity either joining the west or the east or not at all depending how it is managed both sides and how how ukies are dispointed with the maidan regime since almost 3 years now.
-leadership legitimacy and how much money is poured (and how how quickly it materialises) to rebuild/reindustrialise NVR. Old oligarchs will also play their part if they’re not stupid.
-economic prospects of the new entities (Galicia in Poland – NVR with Russia) and the resulting situation for MLR (central+nothern ukraine), not to mention oblasts taken hostage of the situation (sumi assuming it would be inclduded/annexed into NVR) and Poltava.
Economic prospects of MLR and the balance btw the 2 new entities as well as infrastructure new realities (MLR cut from both the Azov and Black sea), no or little industries left.
Last comment, because this is all wishfull thinking, I don’t think H.R.C once “elected” POTUS will settle with this, even minimalistic Donbass or redcued NVR projects. Not even Crimea actually.
First thing first!
The notion that Ukraine is “falling apart” and “on the verge of collapse” has been repeated with periodic regularity for the last 2 years. By now it should be clear it is wishful thinking. It is true that life has become extremely difficult for many people there (not only in the Donbass) and that many are forced to emigrate. This trend will probably continue for a while. I believe the plan here might be to flush as many people as possible out of that country. The Baltics lost a large amount of their population ever since they joined the “west” but they haven’t “collapsed” in the sense of disintegrating. The pattern is the same everywhere. These places just become fiefdoms of western corporations. I really wonder what the real plans are for Ukraine.
Of course lately there have been an increased number of daily attacks on the Donbass, in addition to the sabotage attempt in Crimea. It is possible these are related to an intensified campaign to try to provoke some kind of response, ignite a more intense conflict, perhaps to benefit Killary’s campaign; she must be the most unpopular, untrusted, despised future president in the history of the US, now moving to a single-party system, it seems, at least until they manage to put the Republican party under control again after Trump.
Whilst I agree with most of this analysis, I have to say that anybody who expects co-operation in good faith from the US or its European vassal states is seriously deluded.
Ukraine is likely to remain a festering sore to the west of the Russian federation for the foreseeable future. The main purpose of the Ukro-nazi project was to drive a wedge between the EU and the Russian federation in order to maintain US influence on the continent (pretty much mission accomplished I would say) While European leaders owe their allegiance to the transnational western oligarchy rather than their own nations the situation will persist.
Please read item 6 of Saker’s moderation policy … your comment has been removed … mod-hs
Soros wants all of Ukraine. If breakup doesn’t work for him, its not going to happen. Feuding ethnicities bound within a single artificial state plundered by foreign interests isn’t a new idea for the A-Zs.
Ukrainians may be more civilized than today’s peoples of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but then the Congo was civilized place before colonization 500 years ago.
There’s also no way NATO can act as a civilizing force. No-one in charge here in the West seems to know what that means anymore as an inherent part of individual character, only as something imposed by outside force.
Our leaders can act civilized, but its apparent many are lousy actors who feel put upon to behave themselves rather than ‘express themselves’.
And darn if it doesn’t trickle down. Popular culture is often unbearable in its violent crassness and rudeness passing as hip ‘entertainment’.
Politicians aren’t truly appalled at Donald Trump’s … er, openness; they are envious he can act the way the they would like to but can’t. They don’t sense that Trump gets away with things because he’s at least sincerely well-meaning.
Whereas Trumps opponents and detractors would be insulting just to be insulting, stultified by their daily polite masks and desperate to call sheeple for what they are.
I may have written off the American people too soon. It seems a pair of U.S. veterans has gotten together a civic activist group to fight corruption in their county and is winning. As in, they even pulled off the citizen’s arrest of an entire county board. They’ve forced over 100 corrupt officials out of office.
John Kraft and Kirk Allen of Illinois State founded the Edgar County Watchdogs to track, report, and actively oppose corruption in government.
Amazing stuff. They rely most upon media awareness, Freedom of Information Requests, and making FBI tips, all lawful activities.
However pulling off a citizen’s arrest – amazing when you stop to consider the risks.
High U.S. Federal officials may be beyond such activism, but its the little crooked fish that make the big crooked fish possible.
This is the sort of thing the Ukrainians themselves might need; independent small and local groups stifling corruption at their level, and slowly taking the baby steps and working up to save their country at a national level.
All politics is local, after all. Any Ukrainian grassroots for a peaceful united country would falter reaching too high to fix national problems beyond their firepower. Locals working at their grassroots level may achieve successes no distant representatives could achieve.
Its like an anaconda strategy, putting the squeeze on the very roots of corruption from the ground up instead of hammering down from above.
What is going to be the trigger of such a plan ? How is it going to be presented ? Who will sponsored it ? The timing is off at least 1-2 years, it seems. Putin doesn’t want to talk to Poroshenko at this time. Poroshenko is not credible and is not willing to implement Minsk2. Obama might be willing to discuss this issue at the G-20 and propose something to Putin. However, the closer we are to the US elections, the more difficult it will be for Obama to do something because the odds of Hillary Clinton of winning the election are currently very high.
Maybe Germany and France would be interested in taking care of business. However, they don’t carry much weight anymore and have lost credibility.
”the odds of Hillary Clinton of winning the election are currently very high.”
based on what?
on the day of the british in/out referendum a poll wa published
putting the ‘remain’ vote 10 points ahead….
message… don’t bother to vote out because you’ve already lost !
coclusion…polls are rigged a the actual result showed.
its even more ‘controlled’ in the US.
The odds of Clinton winning are very high, indeed. What this means: the window for Obama to do something about Ukie is closing fast. If Clinton wins, this is it. If Trump wins: he will not survive 6 months as President, imho.
The break-up is not an option for Clinton, I believe. War against Russia is the only one. Maybe she will choose Syria instead of Ukraine to attack Russia. The Normandy format is going to disappear, to be replaced by direct negotiations with Putin. France and Germany will no longer be ‘guarantors’ of the Minsk2 agreement.
Either something happens in 1-2 months and break-up of Ukraine is put in place, or nothing.
I don’t believe there is much chance they would let the Trump win even if he got, say, 10% more votes than Clinton. Just not going to happen. How would they avoid it? Well, the electronic voting machines that leave no trail and no possibility of examining the code, because it is “proprietary” aka sacred or somenting, and can be easily hacked anyway. So the act of casting your vote in any of these machines is indistinguishible from any act of pure faith you can think of, like lighting a candle to your favorite Saint and believing he will talk to the Boss about your problem. It is just pure superstition.
Saker, a sombre but very sharp and realistic analysis. When living together is no longer an option, then nations must separate.
Blood is NOT thicker than water (especially if your slavic brothers have become Nazis!) What binds a nation is common ideology, values, culture, not genes.
It’s time to put the Pan-Slavic nostalgia to rest….
A nation – or a people – are ultimately bound together by collective consciousness, which includes all the attributes you cited, but – I would argue – does include the blood/genetic component as well. How do you explain our “Kosovski Zavet” in strictly ideological & cultural terms? I think it goes much deeper, “za krst casni i slobodu zlatnu” is a call from our ancestors, our biological ancestors.
Vor, I had the good fortune to have been raised by both my parents and my grandparents so I fully understand the “ancestral link” you are referring to.
The problem with biology, as you put it, is where does it begin and where does it end? Do we include the Croats and the Sarajevo Muslims? In my opinion it is a strengthening feature only when the ideology and culture are the same.
A soon as the Killary administration is in place by early next year, we should expect a significant increase in the number and severity of Ukrainian attacks, and in the nastiness of the Kiev regime. Hillary will make sure Ukraine remains a festering ulcer oozing its foul suppurations eastward and westward for the foreseeable future. Kilklary and her team are already salivating at the prospect.
more into details/discussion, the map in the attached piece, show NVR, without Dniepropetriovsk oblast, without Nikolaev, without Odessa, and Odessa with some Georgrian flag.
Was it for humour?, or do you guys consider it can’t be reatken because it’s the other way of the dniepr? Nikolaev, Odessa, Krivoy Rog are all the originalnovorossian or Bessarabia project(s). At least from the minds of those who thought about it (Tsarev, Gubarev, etc)
Right from the beginning I said , “…why waste so much trouble and energy, lives and destruction? The obvious solution? Divide the country along the Dnieper River. Nazi Ukrainians to the right and Russian Ukrainians to the left and have done with it.”
Seems that was far too simple a solution for anyone to consider. After all, all that illegal arms trafficking, drugs, human trafficking, organ harvesting and US GMO Monsanto and Chevron Fracking and stolen Gold reserves by the CIA in the middle of the night would never have taken place.
So rather let the criminality run riot and the criminals make themselves a small fortune that any kind of civilized, rational, logical solution should ever be considered. Oh my word, there is no illegal corrupt profit in that is there? And the IMF and the EU make me sick as do the Americans with their anti Russian hyperbole and their colonialist corporate fascist Zionist mentality.
I think that I said at the beginning of the crisis that the situation would inevitably come to that point and Europe will end up asking Russia to ‘live up’ to her obligations and fix up the mess in Ukraine.
An admirable feature of President Putin’s diplomacy is his insistence that international law be observed. How is Ukraine to be broken up consistent with international law?
Revolutions, riots, civil war, and nazis do not respect international law. Sometimes event trump international law and create a fait accompli.
What is proposed is a deliberate effort to break up Ukraine or formalize the break-up caused by civil war etc. under international supervision – which inevitably brings up the question of international law and precedents like Yugoslavia and Syria. What determines which “supervised break-ups” are OK?
Indeed, there seems to be an overlooked issue, which would be the sovereignty of the people comprising the nation. It has always sounded correct to me that the Syrian people should decide the fate of that country, that there was a mutual agreement between the Crimeans and Russia to come together – bearing in mind Russia’s respect for national borders and the sovereignty of the people within them. For any country to be considered ‘artificial’ or ‘too big’ seems to me an arbitrary concept unless the people composing it decide that to be the case.
Just as the world needs to restore multi-polarity, should it not be the aim of countries to restore multiculturalism where that has historically existed within them? When you come right down to it, all borders are artificial. But we seem to enjoy having nations.
It is not an impossible task; reconciliation does happen, even if one generation has to give way to the next. What is artificial, it seems to me, is this cold war attitude being constantly ginned up by the West. But finally people like Brezhinski and Kissinger are changing their tune; that I would never have expected. Maybe those peace marchers are the hope of a nation rebuilding. I hope they keep going.
There is one sentimental concern by an old pilot. What will happen to the Antonov design bureau in kiev????
The little yellow men will buy it.
yup the giant Antonov has been bought, announced yesterday-they haven’t 120 m funding needed to continue.Probably the remains of the bureau will find employment designing even more killer drones , missiles etc via ukronboron…..
Any discussion of the future for Ukraine that ignores the nuclear power industry and nuclear waste is delusional. The objective physical reality is severe electric power rationing starting this winter and transitioning to occasional times when power is on. That’s a death-spiral and it’s just about to begin. Pipe freeze, it gets hard to re-start things…it’s collapse.
And then there’s the npp’s themselves – about to be out of operating time and due for major overhauls – that can’t be paid for. Those plants will be operated in unsafe conditions – possibly to failures. Probably to failures, whether small or large remains to fortune.
Any realistic “plan” for break-up, or anything else, must focus on these matters.
People and politics are vital, but the physics of the matter are absolutely and deadly serious, and unforgiving, forever unforgiving.
And I hear the the US is planning to ship US nuke waste to a “new storage facility” in Ukraine, near Chernobyl… (not sure about that, it’s only one source)
From the other side of the world, my question is this …..
To me, there are areas in Ukraine outside of Donbas and Crimea who’d want at least a more Russian-leaning orientation, if not asking for a chance to join Donbas and/or Russia officially.
Kharkov comes to mind as a place where there was resistence, but the fascist thugs cracked down hard enough to stop it. Odessa and the burning labor hall is another place.
If Donbas does break away in some fashion or another, I wouldn’t be surprised (from the other side of the world where I only know what I read) if some of these areas both regretted that they didn’t resist harder and didn’t ask to get away from the rule of the Lviv/western fascists.
So, to me, the maps I’ve seen of areas with large pcts of Russian speakers, or the areas that voted for the now-deposed previous President, if that line won’t end up being the fracture line that Ukraine eventually splits upon.
But, in general, I think the Russian-hating, Russia-phobic policies of the current Kiev regime is the driving force that will eventually split the country. They are the ones and its these policies that have created the conditions where I think its going to be impossible for half the country to live under their rule.
I have a different plan. 1) Russia has responsibilities only to DLPR, 2) Western countries involved in coup d’etat must financially help normal people from the rest of Ukraine to relocate to Russia, 3) Russian govt should draw a comprehensive plan of gradual severance of economic and later diplomatic relations with Ukraine, 4) Ukraine must accept and grant citizenship to fifth columnists from Russia – they are fewer in numbers than normal people we welcome from this madhouse. (Yawn)
As always, such good analysis. There is an extra danger for the Americans. If the Ukraine goes down the tubes and especially if they lose a future round of fighting then the confidence of Europe in the U.S. will be badly shaken. Russia bests them in Syria and now in the Ukraine. With Europe so badly divided and in poor shape itself voices calling for a repudiation of pro-US toady leaders will get very loud.
So, a possible scenario would see the Ukies launch a military attack on the Donbass, fail miserably and then descend into civil war with the US seen as helpless or, soon, hated as betrayers. Europe whines and dithers into confusion. The Donbass finally can come into its own and only Russia looks good.
Right. Civil War in Ukraine with 15 nuclear power stations and tons of waste…what could go wrong?
One problem with countries devolving into separate states is the issue of sovereign debt. When a country is indebted, the natural resources of the country serve as effective collateral to secure the loan. Devolving a state into a number of components would raise considerable problems for debt service. The new states would have to apportion outstanding debt among themselves. However, since the new states would have different resource bases the way to do this is not obvious. Of course the issue of the banking sector and financial system of the new countries would cause additional problems.
In the US, President Lincoln cited the issue of sovereign debt as a condition for his refusal to permit the secession of the South. So these issues do have real impact.
Please let me start by saying, what a great article. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to share your thoughts with us.
Have you considered that the “Empire” foresaw the collapse of Ukraine? Let us not forget that millions of lives mean nothing to these people (and I use the term lightly). The issue is that the controlling parties are the US and the UK. Now if millions of Ukranians pack up and head into the EU, both of these controlling parties will be quite happy. After all, a weak EU, makes a strong Britain and USA. When the EU is buckling, they will accept many disastrous terms to try and keep afloat. That is what they will do.
As attractive as your plan sounds, I think it does not reflect reality. Millions of Ukranians are going to die in the coming years and there is nothing we can do or will be allowed to do in order to save them. Oh, and believe me when I say that Russia will be blamed for everything.
After the dust has settled, maybe Ukraine can be split. But I do not think it will happen any time soon. Or soon enough for all those poor souls.
send in the chinese to restore Ukraine !!
Chines OBOR (nothwithstanding gas trasnit) might well be the solution.
This is a very good point
What are those birds called that eat the carcass of the dead? Vultures?
What is “rotten dead meat” to Russia, to Europe, to U.S. is not neccesarily non – nutritious & unedible “food” to others.
I know the Khazars too well.Unfortunately for me, as there are blatant knowledges that can be hard for the soul to bear. Perhaps, sometimes ; it is true that “ignorance is bliss”.
Israel’s Secret Plan for a ” Second Israel” in Ukraine.
Something to think about….and be VERY concerned about . These Khazarians are not the dumb, erratically violent (without any concrete goal set) uneducated & unsavvy Ukranians.
Beware! Mephistos is an opportunist of humanity’s miseries and will exploit the confident unguarded blessed ones (Russia).
Carmel by the Sea
Already in 2009 German military circles debated NATO’s continued eastward expansion and the breakup of Ukraine. Also it was Germany to be first to publicly declare that NATO should expand eastward in 1993.
“As a former advisor in the Amt für Studien und Übungen (Bureau for Research and Training) of the German Bundeswehr writes, the question of expanding the western war alliance to the territory of the Ukraine is still on the table. If this step is taken, “probably only the western Ukraine” will join NATO. The “eastern Ukraine” would “in this case, become independent or a de facto nation like Abkhazia.” The author, a lieutenant colonel of the reserves, presented his ideas in a military magazine, embedding them in a retrospective on the entire past twenty years of NATO’s eastward expansion. According to the author, a “cordon sanitaire” separating this war alliance from Russia, conceded by the allies of World War II to the Soviet Union, has, for the most part, been absorbed into NATO, essentially crossing every “red line” drawn by Moscow.
In March 1993, Bonn’s Minister of Defense at the time, Volker Ruehe, was the first to publicly declare that the war alliance should be expanded to include several East European nations, says Brill.”
Back in 2011 Ukrainian nazis have already threatened to attack Donetsk because a court ruled that Bandera is no longer “Hero of Ukraine”. The nazi uprising was called “maidan” back then, too. People were afraid that this could lead to a civil war.
“Yesterday near the monument to Bandera was a big rally. All Western Ukraine has risen. I’m afraid, as if all this has not led to civil war”
I still say Russia should simply invade Ukraine, wipe out the neo-Nazi battalions, execute ALL the oligarchs (trials or not, just shoot them!), disarm the remaining Ukraine military completely, put a puppet regime in Kiev – then GO HOME. No “nation-building” required.
While Ukraine might remain a mess, at least it would not be a “flash point” mess ready to trigger World War III. It would be relatively quiet for a few years while it’s recovering from the mess imposed by the West, which would give Russia some breathing room to deal with other matters.
NATO and the US could do nothing about a Russian invasion. Russia would be in Kiev in 72 hours, far too fast for either to react effectively.
While Russia would be pilloried for this action, it would be effective, efficient and valuable. Russia is ALREADY pilloried for things it hasn’t done and won’t do – might as well do them. Russia needs to stop worrying about how its actions are misrepresented by the West. The West doesn’t care about international opinion or international law – Russia might as well stop caring, in this case at least.
Invasions isn’t the problem; occupation is.
Besides, NATO’s been spoiling to break the ice on ‘limited nuclear war’. Of course, they might not, for scurrilous reasons.
Ukraine as it is, all shot up, is primarily NATO’s problem. Russian invasion and occupation and whoops – who gets the reconstruction bill?
The liability costs are probably a driving force keeping NATO officially out of Ukraine and Ukraine out of acceptance into NATO and the EU.
disagree-would not want to see a waste of good russian soldiers-too many arms around, population would probably be too afraid to turn against their masters, Poland and Lithuania would jump in to prevent the “russian aggression” causus belli meme the west is harping on about, which is everything Putin is trying to disprove to the world, only legitimate defence………..stretch russian armies too far, west would think they can jump over them, leading to balkanisation or division of russia.
What are those birds that eat the carcass of the dead? Vultures?
What is rotten dead meat to Russia, Europe, U.S. Is not necessarily non- nutritious and unedible food to others.
I know the Khazars too well. Unfortunately for me, as there are blatant knowledges that can be hard for the soul to bear.
Perhaps, sometimes, it is true that ignorance is bliss.
Israel’s ” Secret Plan” for a Second Israel in Ukraine
Something to think about….and be VERY concerned about . These Khazarians are not the dumb, erratically violent (without any concrete goal set) uneducated & unsavvy Ukranians.
Beware! Mephistos is an opportunist of humanity’s miseries & will exploit the confident unguarded (God forbid!) blessed ones (Russia).
Carmel by the Sea
…while the regime in Kiev is trying to maintain its relevance to NATO hawks by offering to teach them “how to fight against the Russians.”
Yes, I’ve noticed that this is the battle cry of West Ukrainian and West Ukrainian diaspora folks who contribute to MSM comments boards. “We know how to fight the Russians,” is what they say, interspersed with the most vitriolic, obsessive Russia hating remarks conceivable.
I’ve always wondered, though, what exactly is it that these people “know” how to do. It seems to me that they are just perpetuating ethnic animosity. How tragic.
I wish that Ukraine would hurry up and collapse so the world can get this crisis behind it. What will be the harbinger of collapse? Another coup against the government in Kiev? I think Poroshenko will have one if he tries to settle the conflict with any sort of negotiated agreement with the Donbass and Russia. Thus the war in Donbass will not end until a civil war in Kiev commences. Washington would be smart to vacate the premises once that begins, but knowing them they just may double down by sending in jet fighters, aircraft carriers, cruise missiles and 100,000 American and NATO troops to “protect” and “stabilize” Ukraine. Since the Americans have only hubris and no sense whatsoever, that would probably include recovering the Donbass and Crimea which would lead to a war with Russia that potentially goes nuclear, because America never accepts defeat even when they have their asses handed to them. The world may have been doomed the moment Nuland hatched her scheme to overthrow Yanukovych.
Straight Bat had a very good post above on many if not most states today have artificial borders similar to Ukraine which I have also thought for some time.
Many of the conflicts of the last few decades seem to have been created either by the US directly attacking countries, or using divide and conquer strategies and proxies.
The divide and conquer works especially well in all these countries with artificial borders. how to prevent divide and conquer conflicts? Break up the countries with artificial borders? or break up the country that’s doing the dividing?
Conflicts like Syria and Ukraine can only be resolved when the US can no longer interfere in these countries.
The US empire/hegemon can only be brought down through economics not through military means.
Putins strategy seems to be, rather than total victory in these divide and conquer wars, is to simply wind them down and wait. Wait on the economics. China is doing the economics. The US is all the time sinking further into corruption and delusion. It might be a few years it might be a few decades, but the US empire as it is, is unsustainable.
Now that was one expensive cookie…..kind of got stuck in your throat……better drink some milk…..but the cows are all dead…..and the pastures all dangerously filled with land mines…..a good example as to why listening to the US is destructive to your life and wellbeing…….and out of that same cookie jar we now have hillary…..ready to smash into oblivion the very jar that the cookies were contained in…..or was that just a cheap brown paper bag…..whatever it was…..theses harpies….theses demons have got to be removed…..just as do weeds in a garden…..
an interesting concept that has gained traction is that Ukraine’s destruction is being setup for an exodus back from Israel by Askernazi jews to their real homeland…….They see the situation in Israel as impossible for the future.
Not only the Ukies are demoralized. USA and Europe deserve what is coming. In this day and age there is no excuse “i did not know” with internet as a powerfull medium. Problem is most are to lazy and are so “individualized” as long they can live their lives they don’t care about anything just like our degenerated parasitical psychopatic neo con leaders.
Maybe utter poverty without anything is in the end the only medicine to cure our selves. One can only hope that Russia + China are not so malicious as we have been to people who could not defend themselves. Truth is most citizens in EU and USA are exact mini mirrors of the elite with the same traits but without their power.
Sadly history shows that the oppressed become the next oppressors with a vengeance.
This is true, and mostly your last line !
It would be a case of just desserts if oppressed groups like Native Indians or Blacks gave their Euro-American masters a taste of their own medicine.
Even if the Americans were to receive a small dose of what they have meted out to others, their outraged whining and spittle-flecked anger would be probably the greatest Pity Party in human history.
latest ceasefire Donbass broken , NATO hols meeting to up the anti against Rus incl pre-emptive strikes?
“Three options being considered by the Pentagon are the placement of anti-missile defenses in Europe aimed at shooting Russian missiles out of the sky; a “counterforce” option that would involve pre-emptive non-nuclear strikes on Russia military sites; and finally, “countervailing strike capabilities,” involving the pre-emptive deployment of nuclear missiles against targets inside Russia.
“/…/and since NATO countries are the ones who armed the Nazis, it would be only fair to ask them to now disarm them”
With refined amusement, one cannot but wonder who would be most outraged by this ‘innocent’ demand: Our old, beloved Nazi American Terror Organization or its devout Ukronazi fan club. Like draws to like.
“Besides, we have to keep in mind that the Ukraine is a completely artificial country”
Agreed. And just like the rest of the honorary Euro-trash in Eastern Europe, the only period that they should cherish is the years under Soviet rule. But as we’ve seen many times over, they prefer Western driven chaos and destruction to Soviet magnanimity.
However, I don’t see the connection between Banderastan’s borders on one hand and Lenin/Stalin on the other. If anything, the contributions of Weimar Germany, Nikita Khrushchov, and Gorbachov seem considerably more significant in changing/inventing the lands of “Ukraine”.
Very complex problem given the numerous facets. Sure, the nation could be divided along ethno-cultural lines, but it was designed as a unitary state, which means the infrastructure isn’t designed to be divided. Doing that division alone will be very costly but absolutely essential for any new statelet emerging from Ukraine’s disintegration. As several have noted, the nuclear power plants and their waste’s management is also very costly and likely beyond the capacity of any new statelet to afford. The point is, problems of the macro sort are relatively easy to sort out, whereas the micro problems are vastly numerous, often very complex, and thus much harder to solve. And as Saker noted, it’s foolish to just throw money at these problems since those in power will abscond with it as they have already.
IMO, the only solution is for the entire Truth of the matter to be aired globally; the blame for the debacle to be assigned to the Outlaw US Empire since it initiated this terror and is thus responsible for reparations; reparation payments must be held in an international trust account and only paid out to companies doing actual restorative work. How to deconstruct Ukraine will need to be decided by a council of regional nations and responsible Ukrainians and overseen by the UN. But whatever might occur, I won’t hold my breath awaiting positive developments as IMO the situation has yet to reach its nadir.
A badly researched topic. Or written late at night. Why? because of this: ….(since all orders come from Uncle Sam)….
No Europe is not commandeered around by Uncle Sam, it is commandeered by Soros and his ilk. And it is not the same, sa to use a general term Uncle Sam.
Yes, USA tries to control Europe since 120 years, but the projections, decision and policies come from zionazi jews, like Soros, their traces are seen everywhere, all over Europe, every single detail. Well, US interests might be a the second place, maybe, maybe right, after UK means to commandeer the STASI agent Merkel, turning the stupid Frau into their tool to weaken the USA interests mentioned above.
The US empire always had a possession mania. In the 19th century, Sitting Bull said that Americans have a possession disease. If America was twice as big, it still would not be enough. After the west was “won” in 1890, in 1898 the US cooked up a war with Spain.
After the end of the Spanish-American war the US got all of Spain’s colonies . Manifest Destiny, Monroe Doctrine and now Full spectrum dominance are a continuation of this possession disease. It is mostly the US empire. Soros and his ilk are parasites helping the US empire’s full spectrum dominance agenda.
It’s quite definitely a possibility, and the longer the armed conflict and chaos in Kiev last, the more probable a breakup becomes.
However we also have to remember that breaking up a (major) state and completely redrawing borders means opening Pandora’s box. What will minorities in Romania, Spain, Turkey, Latvia or Finland say about this? Not to mention the arbitrary colonial borders of most African states?
So I’m really wondering if there isn’t a chance of federalizing and stabilizing Ukraine with its current borders. With substantial autonomy for Donbas, maybe some UN-mandated peacekeepers, and obviously a lot of EU and Russian subsidies. Neither want a huge chaotic failed state on their border, so they have a strong incentive to open their purses wide (which is standard EU policy btw). Provided the Ukrainians manage to form a halfway functioning government, that is.
Your proposed scenario seems t be the best available to me, but we are dealing with the Empire of Intended Chaos/permanent war/perpetual funding of division (Soros the Rothschild agent, e.g.) so it’s hard to see that, anytime soon, your suggestions could come into effect.
Discounting nuclear war fomented by Washington and its satrapies – from Europe to Australia (as a de facto NATO member – roll over George Orwell!!) – my best assumption, over time and “organically”, the whole of S. Ukraine will re-unite with Russia – not least Odessa – leaving a land-locked rump of the historically artificial state, post the Austria-Hungarian Empire after WW1.
Unfortunately conflict has deep roots in the region, so I cannot expect a tidy resolution soon.
The problem is that the AngloZionists love conflict and love broken states, everywhere they go they “divide and rule” that is their MO and they will rather Ukraine burn to the ground than let a common sense solution like a peaceful breakup happen.
A country that is internaly divided with multiple warring factions is the AngloZionist wet dream and a country as corrupt and disfunctional as Ukraine is the perfect host for their schemes to bring down Russia, they want Ukraine to be the new-Russian Afganistan.
The best approach is to isolate Ukraine and put all the cost and preasure of maintaining it onto the West and NATO, let it collapse under it’s own weight.
The breakup you plot out with care and realism, has a big flaw. US NATO is an arm, the regime change arm, of the US Government and Pentagon. NATO’s job is Regime Change over and over and over until Europe is become a vassal continent to the US Pentagon, Russia cleansed of Russians, emptied out as US vassal status was rejected too often. If these results take one thousand years to reach, no problem, This belief system is behind the neo-con rigid obsessional rule.Why Clinton helped the massacre of the Benghazi US ambassador.Presently and for all the years of the massacre of Palestinians by Israelis have US allowed genocides, have been allowed in order to regularise, normalise, genocidal massacres of differing forms. So, when it comes to erasing say three billion humans no longer desired, no-one blinks unless it is the helpless not yet genetically erased.
The realities in this are not part of your figurings at all, yet they must be included. As in the fact, Europe will never live in freedom from war until NATO is both disbanded and set back home across the Atlantic.. The US, isolated geographicaly, must use wars to grow as it has destroyed it’s own landmass almost completely..wars that have no actual validity unless Europe fights them for the US!
A German proverb: Lieber ein Ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne Ende (Better a terrible end, than terror without end in sight).
One alternative would be to return the various territories stolen from Ukraine’s neighbours to their previous owners (Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania).
But whether as multitude of small states, or as parts of larger vassals to the Empire, they would still be no more independent as the GDR or Bulgaria in the Warszaw Pact, or Britain, France and Germany today in NATO.
As I’m posted several times,and someone else here reported on also a day or so ago. NATO knew of the possibility than Ukraine would break apart in 2009. They planned on how to accept it. And interesting enough they even knew which regions would break away (the South East,”Novorossia”). This was no surprise to them. What was a surprise though was Russia’s reaction. They all along assumed Russia would support the breaking away of the pro-Russian areas.And because of that they knew there was nothing to be done but accept it.But when Russia seemed to not support the break-up. They thought/think they can “win it all”. They can keep almost all Ukraine as a weapon against Russia. While at the same time hitting out with propaganda about, “Russian aggression”.Its past time that this farce be ended. And the fascist junta be destroyed. Either Novorossia be freed as a new nation. Or it be combined in a Confederation with the other regions in a self-governing arrangement. With either solution,if enforced by Russia,NATO will do nothing about it,except whine and apply sanctions.The bottom line on sanctions is,if you are “afraid” to do whats right because you fear sanctions. Then you will never be independent. But always be a hostage at the West’s mercy. A mercy that I think we all know now doesn’t really exist.
Had to look up Conchita
About right but “terminally brainwashed with russophobic hatred” is inaccurate, it’s not rossophobic hatred, it’s capitalist hatred, sovereignty hatred.
Western Ukraine has gone full retard demoralized Socialist, Conchita is a symptom of demoralization, the EU and Ukraine have been fully captured by Soviet ideology-30 years too late https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo
That’s why they they hate the Russians, a Commies Wurst enemy is an ex-Communist because they’re hip to all the commie bullshit, been there done that.
Good notice. It’s funny to see how those (leftists/socialists) who rule the media today are ex-lovers of the Soviet Union. Today they love the European Union and hate Russia. Quite ironic when you think of it? Russia today represents what those leftists hated aka the “real west” in the 60s-70s. Today’s west is nothing but an empty shell which has been replaced with nothing but leeches.
Conclusion – the left which is the most vocal today as it was in the past, hates freedom, loves speech restrictions and leeching off the system, which is doing nothing but rotting away. The crazy immigration policy does nothing but accelerate this. But of course this has been already the case since the birth of the EU, it just has gotten much more transparent and visible since after the great financial crisis.
They’re called Neocons and while your description has merit, and they do hate Russia, their sole love is Israel, not the EU.
I think you are missing something… Somalia in Europe is not a bug, it is a feature. As well as MENA on fire is a feature. It is not possible to create a “new silk road” through a territory on fire, so there will be no huge economic prosperity zone from Lisbon to Shanghai. Old silk road died for the same reason.
Its interesting that when the first “silk road” was at its most important. Was when the Chinese Empire and later the Mongol Empire were at their most powerful. And served as a protection for the road’s commerce. When those Empires collapsed,the unrest and lawlessness in the different regions destroyed that commerce.That is a point that China and Russia need to think about when considering the new roads.
Actually I was thinking about Roman times. Before arab caravan robbers closed it off contributing to Byzantines decline.
Yes, small is beautiful, but also vulnerable to NATO incursion/inclusion, and Putin will be strategically concerned about this aspect of any break-up of Ukraine. He probably wants Ukraine as a united, non-aligned buffer state that protects Russia’s southern flank. This seems the best long-term solution, but how to get there?
If she wins, Hillary Clinton will not accept a peace deal with Russia; it’s not in her nature, and also she is as thick as two planks. Donald Trump, if he wins, is a pragmatist and whoever talks to him first about the Ukraine issue, will have his ear, and he may support a demilitarised and non-aligned Ukraine, trading with both Russia and the EU. From a purely geopolitical aspect, I’d prefer Trump to win. It sounds like heresy, I know, but Clinton is a neoconservative hawk and will be of no help at all internationally.
5 years after this article was posted and the West is still begging Russia to invade. Same old, same old.