I had seen the Russian text on the OSCE page, and now Gleb Bazov sent me his translation. To say that I am under-impressed by this text would be an understatement. I would also note that many well informed sources spoke of a 14 points plan. Are two more points held in secret? What is certain is that this documents is imprecise, nebulous, ambiguous and otherwise vague to such a degree that I would argue that it is basically impossible to implement. Knowing the degree to which Russian diplomats are normally maniacally fastidious and pedantic with words, I can only conclude that they have deliberately sabotaged this agreement and that it’s sole use what to deflate the bellicose mood of the NATO summit. But as a basis for a real ceasefire it is useless, nevermind a real negotiation for a final status agreement or peace treaty.
The first rule for any kind of ceasefire is to provide a painstakingly accurate timetime for the implementation of unambiguously defined and verifiable de-escalation measures followed by a precise schedule for confidence building measures subject to mutual verification. There is nothing like that here. Points 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11 mean absolutely nothing, the rest are vague and ambiguous at best. This is one of the worst ceasefire agreements I have ever seen.
Either way, numerous reports seem to indicate that the cease-fire has already been violated in many locations. Some kind of deal will eventually be made, and maybe this symbolic first step is, at best, a way to get the process going. But in itself, this document is useless.
PS: I will be gone all day tomorrow. I leave you with an open thread.
on the results of consultations of the Trilateral Contact Group
with respect to the joint steps aimed at
the implementation of the Peace Plan
of the President of Ukraine, P. Poroshenko,
and the initiatives of the President of Russia, V. Putin
Upon consideration and discussion of the proposals put forward by the participants of the consultations in Minsk on September 1, 2014, the Trilateral Contact Group, consisting of the representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe [OSCE], reached an understanding with respect to the need to implement the following steps:
- Ensure the immediate bilateral cessation of the use of weapons.
- Ensure monitoring and verification by the OSCE of the regime of non-use of weapons.
- Implement decentralization of power, including by means of enacting the Law of Ukraine “With respect to the temporary status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions” (Law on Special Status).
- Ensure permanent monitoring on the Ukrainian-Russian state border and verification by the OSCE, together with the creation of a security area in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
- Immediately release all hostages and unlawfully detained persons.
- Enact a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions of Ukraine.
- Conduct an inclusive national dialogue.
- Adopt measures aimed at improving the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
- Ensure the holding of early local elections in accordance with the Law of Ukraine “With respect to the temporary status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions” (Law on Special Status).
- Remove unlawful military formations, military hardware, as well as militants and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine.
- Adopt a program for the economic revival of Donbass and the recovery of economic activity in the region.
- Provide personal security guarantees for the participants of the consultations.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
Ambassador Heidi Talyavini (signed)
Second President of Ukraine, L.D. Kuchma (signed)
Ambassador of the Russian Federation in Ukraine, M.Y. Zurabov (signed)
A.V. Zakharchenko (signed)
I.V. Plotnitskiy (signed)
Nora thanks for the link, London’s been calling us subsidy junkies up here in Scotland since Thatchers time, how ironic that they’re using our oil revenues to keep their City banker chums afloat. Westminster also said if we vote for independence we couldn’t use the pound, we replied that we therefore wouldn’t be responsible for our share of the liabilities, upon reading your link it seems like a good idea to use the Ruble,Kroner or the Yuan until we get our own currency. Fool Britannia :)
ZH has FT article on New Sanctions.
So the Minsk negotiations used to hold off energy sector sanctions has not worked.
Vitaliy Dovgiy 07 September, 2014 17:07
As Scottish referendum about its independence drawing closer I wonder how can you define people who will vote for the independence. Separatists? Or perhaps, terrorists?
Ok, and here is another question. Should England commence the Anti-Terror op against the separatists or if you like pro-Scottish forces? Ridiculous questions, aren’t they?
I’ve also thought of this analogy and like the NAF the SAF would vanquish the enemy. It is criminal murder that’s been perpetrated in Novorossiya by the Kiev junta backed by my Uk british govt. I want no part in fascistic aggressive war and support the NAF, Russia and Putins position 100%. Offering a cyber hand of friendship brother, may the force be with you.
Retweeté par Rock Solid Politics
AlexandrSligo @Alexsligo · 2 h
#BREAKING : Reports that Nazi-Sector Yarosh has died after receiving a severe neck injury #Lughansk #Donetsk
@Anonymous 23:40; Re: Reports of Yarosh dying after receiving a severe neck injury
Neck injury?? From what? A noose? I sure hope so, preferably a noose made of piano wire. (or it could his cover exit now that his job for the FSB is done ;-O).
The logic behind the ceasefire agreement will not become apparent for seven or eight more moves on the chessboard.
What Putin is saying — rather weakly — is that he really really really wants peace!
When it becomes apparent that the Ukies are negotiating in bad faith, Putin will be in a much stronger position to escalate Russian participation.
In the meantime the Anglo-Zionist disinformation machine is again forced to contradict reality in order to facilitate the Putin is Hitler campaign. Every single moment of every single day since this crisis began Zion grows weaker and Russia grows stronger.
When the moment is right Putin will deliver his coup de gras.
Ukies are building a defensive line from Izyum to Kharkov in Kharkov region — not the hallmarks of a military confident their troops north of Lugansk will hold indefinitely even if they’ve proven stubborn thus far.
Donetsk airport’s bunkers must be deep because that place has been hit with everything and the Ukie paratroopers are still holding out there. I wonder how much food was in storage at the airport that they managed to hold on or when they were last resupplied. More shellfire mostly outbound it appears from Mariupol overnight. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Putin having allegedly sold out Novorossiya this ceasefire looks as real as a $3 bill.
Am flying my Scottish flag…and its getting attention in my hood… but hopefully the Scots jettison Salmond before he enslaves them to the EU…and Wales will be next…then Northern Ireland…oh golly…maybe we’ll petition for dual-citizenship…like all my neighbors with that shitty little country in the ME…
As for Suspicious of Saker, in his own screwed up way he has a point.
The faction within the CIA that is disgusted by the Anglo-Zionists is very much in favour of Putin-like leadership for America. They screwed up on Obama but that doesn’t mean they won’t try again.
Not everyone in the CIA is evil. There are plenty of folks who joined thinking they would be working to benifit their country. Those who spoke up when they saw what the CIA had devolved into were isolated and removed by the ascendant Israel firsters.
For those who need a more straightforward explanation, there are plenty of Anglo-Americans who want very much to be rid of the Zionists.
The words below are not mine. I haven’t saved the link and now I am not able to find the source. I’m sorry for that. But I did not want this post to be unnoticed.
To those who know how to use their brains I explain in simple words.
The Kremlin is not homogeneous, and we all know that, even in the daycare there are more than one potty, and on each is somebody’s ass. Putin does not have the power of absolute monarchy, especially because the previous government put the country at the mercy of the western oligarchy (so to speak). Putin has managed to somewhat weaken this dependence but not completely. Because of this there are a few force vectors in the Kremlin. Most of us know them and others can guess.
The purpose of the United States to ruin Russia, or at least weaken it as much as possible, but it can be done only by removing Putin, he and his team is a positive force vector. Naturally, the negative forces of the Kremlin want to help the removal of Putin by any means. Maydan from either left or right, or though all the color revolutions
The best way for them is to betray Novorossia, which Putin supports, and blame him. Arrange terrorist attacks, kill popular people, any means are suitable for denigration, and they are likely to be applied. If this fails, it is possible to eliminate him physically, or the dismissal, whatever is working. Putin is now the most vulnerable figure.
I do not know what methods will be used specifically, but anything is possible, from the fall of the standard of living, to maydano-jumpers who immigrated to Russia. The police will not be able to deal with them, exactly for the same reasons as in the Ukraine. We have police chiefs with bank accounts and real estate, and the children abroad, and their subordinates could just be bought, intimidated, and finally fired. Putin will be declared dictator with all the consequences, and what follows from there – is only death like Gaddafi.
The Internet will not be shut off, but all pro-Russian bloggers would be removed, and only would remain the likes of kurginyan and myurid, and of course we’ll still be on secondary resources, but the coverage is not the same.
What is the ordinary man to do against this? – fully support Putin, with words, with actions, with brains, and if needed sometimes with fists.
To believe me or not is up to you, I warned you.
You replied to my post about ATO casualties by posting the following claims:
“Ukraine coup gov (with the volunteer batallions) have not lost 10.000.
They have lost close to 40.000!.
KIA, WIA, deserted, etc.”
Please be advised that I made a typo when I wrote “If the ATO had really lost in excess of 10,000 killed and wounded…” I actually meant to write “If the ATO had really lost in excess of 20,000…” Also, I’m referring to an upper limit of politically tolerable killed and wounded for Kiev, not including troops lost through desertion or as POW’s. My apologies for the confusion caused by my typo.
I don’t doubt that Kiev has lost over 20,000 troops, police, and paramilitary personnel as deserters and defectors since the beginning of the conflict last March. My real focus, however, is the question of how many killed and wounded Kiev could possibly have incurred this summer in Donbass without suffering a total military collapse following by political collapse of the government. Again, given that the Ukrainian military is still in the field (albeit beaten and weakened) and that a revolution has not broken out in Ukraine’s interior, the ATO’s losses must still be below some level that the nation can tolerate. My understanding is that, when any nation goes to war, that nation’s population will retain the political will to keep fighting only as long as the anguish caused by battle deaths and wounded doesn’t surpass some upper level that the population is psychologically and emotionally capable of tolerating.
Consider the following examples. The US deescalated and withdrew from Vietnam not because of actual military defeat, but rather because the American population was not willing to sustain the unacceptably high KIA and WIA rates associated with winning the war. The same is true of France’s wars in Algeria and Indochina: the French had the resources to win both conflicts, but could not afford to pay the political price incurred by the inevitable high levels of dead and wounded. In Afghanistan, the USSR could easily have crushed the mujahideen had Moscow chosen to upgrade its involvement from a limited defensive operation into a full scale war effort, but doing so would have entailed high casualties that would only agitate the Soviet people. In Donbas, Kiev is facing a similar quandary. As I see, 20,000 dead and wounded ATO troops would have been too hard for Kiev to hide from the Ukrainian people. Therefore, losses must be well below that level (although still high).
As has been demonstrated all summer, the NSDC is not good at spinning the truth. So, if the NSDC admits 900 dead and 3,200 wounded, the real figures most likely in the range of 1,800 to 2,700 KIA and 6,400 to 9,600 WIA, which is severe, but still something that Kiev could hide from the public given that Ukraine’s population is something like 40,000,000. But I think Kiev is rapidly approaching that point where its KIA and WIA cannot be hidden from the public, especially if the war continues another two months and the casualty rates remain close to their current levels.
@Everybody: There is so much noise around, but:
1. Has Ukraine joined EU and on what terms?
2. Has Ukraine joined NATO and on what terms?
3. Russia was financially helping Ukraine, who is now financially helping Ukraine?
4. Has IMF loan started the payments?
5. What is the status on Crowns?
Espina and Barn Owl,
I sat on the porch swing watching the sun set tonight and couldn’t help feeling such a, what, even bigger glow for both of you, bc it’s going to happen. It is, it just is. Things have to ripen just so, and then they do. And the concept of all the peoples involved in a stretch West from the Pacific to the Atlantic, *doing it right* is just so totally, totally beautiful! ;~) My people did once, and the Palestinians also — in addition to making the desert bloom (in unpolluted fashion) for thousands of years, in a supreme irony they were also the merchants of the Middle East. (I choke when I see those Jaffa oranges bc I know whose they once were). But I’m not thinking there’ll be much time or land left by the time Independence happens for either of us. Otoh, for you two, the future holds in it all the beauty I just saw in the sky! ;~)
And if you took any kind of a look at the NYT article American Kulak referred to, you’ll see that the Karmic payback (Lord, what a phrase!) in store for us has dimensions far greater — and a whole lot funnier — than we’ve even imagined. I.e., like everything else here, our foreign policy is also, just more secretively, for sale not just to the highest bidder, but just about anyone, anywhere, who puts in a nice secret bid! AZ Empire you said? Maaaaaayyyyyybbbbeee a bit more than that… ;~) Might as well laugh now too, bc it’s not going to be real funny (here at least) when the whole house of cards collapses. Kind of like the UK, but probably a Whole. Lot. Nastier. After all, we’ve earned it.
So I’d much rather think about your independence — bc *that* is truly, genuinely, happy-making! ;~)
mingulay29 and TR,
Yes, and Gotcha. ;~)
Have you submitted this for publication too? ;~)
Has Ukraine paid the Gas Bill to Russia?
Is Russia still supplying Gas to Ukraine?
Do Google this please?
Malaysian PM towing the Western line on MH17 today during a joint event with the Australian PM. I hope to hell someone inside the Malaysian ministries especially defense leak like crazy with the real goods they have on evidence pointing to the Ukies.
Apparently Yarosh has kicked the bucket
There’s this wise saying: ‘When you receive flack, you’re over your target.’
Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate – 0 trackers.
Atol was how I found out about Saker, so I don’t accept Skeptical being against it. It was one of many online publications which seemed to offer information and perspectives lacking in the MSM after 9/11. Whether it is very Asian is beside the point. Escobar and Spengler are their star columnists, offering interesting comments regardless of whether one agrees with them. The CIA does have recruitment ads there as does the State Department. Whether this is because the people who read atol might be interested in such a career or whether it is a poorly disguised front is for others to decide. It is said that the CIA is behind the novel 1984 and the movie High Noon, and much more. Just because it might be propaganda doesn’t make it a bad read.
4) Interesting P.C. Roberts overview: “One Russian response to sanctions should be to confiscate any Western firms operating in Russia as compensation for damages inflicted by the sanctions.
Another response is to obtain financing from China.
Another response is to self-finance energy and defense needs. If the US can print money in order to keep 4 or 5 mega-banks afloat, Russia can print money to finance its needs.
The lesson that Washington is teaching the larger part of the world is that a country has to be insane to do business with the West.”
Russian Nationalism and Eurasianism: The Ideology of Russian Regional Power and the Rejection of Western Values
Probably someone posted this before but it’s worth noting again.
1) Winter is coming: so, veering towards OT, but (I claim) not going all the way: from With Napoleon in Russia by Caulaincourt: early December 1812, “I do not remember that I [C.] have ever suffered so much from cold….”
“The Emperor asked me [C] several times … if I thought that Russia would make peace. He added that it would be wise of Tsar Alexander to conclude it while he [Tsar] was enjoying some measure of success. I replied [not likely].
Napoleon: “We are victims of the climate. The fine weather tricked me.”
2) As pointed out in this thread there are notable absences, and inclusions, in the vague wish list ‘peace plan.’ Vile rhetoric (‘we will exterminate these Russified terrorist potato bugs’) has been muted into ‘we are negotiating with these people’.
The reference to mercenaries, the non-reference to Russian involvement, are noteworthy imo. As implied in MK Ngoyo missive above, 07 September, 2014 16:01, this document can be interpreted as testing the waters preliminary.
However, I would question Ngoyo’s statement that “A federalized Ukraine with Novorussia acting as a break on the west Ukie crazies is the best outcome from an anti-imperialist point of view.”
Federalized’ comes in many shades, from nearly autonomous to centrally dominated. At the best of times, federations involving different ethnic, language and religious groups are challenging creatures, both to create and to maintain in viable condition.
Viable federations require a dominant leavening of general good will and mutual respect. And even if Novorussia were to accept being part of a strongly decentralized, federalized Ukraine, could Novorussia, within any conceivable federal structure, be able to “act as a break on the west Ukie crazies…”?
Bear in mind that the “west Ukie crazies” are also bit players and rabid puppets to external crazies, global Oligarchic crazies, ‘colour-revolution’ crazies, Russo phobic crazies, global-empire-ambition-besotted crazies: (an incomplete list; more vermin squirmin’ there.)
Note that the document calls for “decentralization of power” to and “local self-government” for ‘rebel’ held areas. Lot’s of room to play there.
Note that #6 is a vague thrust that potentially inhibits Ukrainian reprisals against both its own soldiers for ‘desertion’ – seeking sanctuary in Russia -, and against the ‘terrorists’ from the East, as well as giving Western Ukraine’s political and military we-screwed-up elite a chance to avoid Madame guillotine and kindred. It can be seen as an attempt to squelch the cycles of revenge.
Point 7 calls for “inclusive national dialogue”. That is a profound ideal.
3) The initiation of war, the aggression, came from Ukraine against Novorussia. In any attacker-victim circumstance, the call for a cessation of violence is primarily directed at
the aggressor, even if the term bilateral is used. 1. Ensure the immediate bilateral cessation of the use of weapons.
4) Putin in 2012: “Our position is to help carry out changes for the better in all countries but not to try to force on them – especially by armed force – what we consider to be right.” —– “The strong countries are trying to push their rules and their moral code on weak countries, without taking into account the history, traditions and religion of a particular country.” —– “The super-task is that a representative of each, even the smallest ethnic group, if he lives in this territory and is a citizen of this country, must feel absolutely equal and understand that he and his children can fulfill their most ambitious plans and have no restrictions, no limitations.”
@Doubting Canuck said:
This lack of oversight and restraint by the American public is becoming increasingly dangerous, especially now that Russia is being confronted, and could result in the end of us all.
Absolutely! The US public is DUI at the wheel of a dangerously speeding, massive, hazardous cargo vehicle. Their narcissism, obsessive self indulgence and just plain ignorance, endangers the whole world.
I don’t believe Putin is in cahoots with Obama. They do cooperative on some fronts. As they should. But Russia is getting what it wants in Ukraine because Putin is out-maneuvering Obama at every turn.
On the other hand I don’t believe Putin is an anti-imperialist revolutionary out to destroy US global hegemony. I think he is a leader who wants a multipolar world and for Russia to play a major/independent world role as well as secure its interests.
In today’s world such a policy is necessarily anti-imperialist.
From: Russian Nationalism and Eurasianism: The Ideology of Russian Regional Power and the Rejection of Western Values (link above)
Basic Concepts of Eurasianism and the West
The discussion above does not even scratch the surface of the richness of Eurasian thought. It is a summary of some of the Russian-language literature. In a more understandable way, much of the Eurasian idea can be summarized in these points:
1 Communitarianism against nominalism. Identities are necessarily collective.
2 Non-alignment in global affairs.
3 Eurasianism holds that while nations exist, they are not self-contained. The political unit is the civilization, which is a federation of complimentary nations.
4 Culture is the essential tie among people in a nation or civilization. The quantifiable aspects of rule are highly limited and secondary.
5 Russians are not Europeans, or at least not entirely European. Russians are mixtures of Slav, Mongol and Turkish blood that help inform their genetics. This means that Russians are genetically related to the Caucasian and some Central Asian peoples. In addition, this “third world” blood makes the Russians an ideal intermediary between Asia and Europe, or even Europe and the third world. (cf. Shlapentokh, 2007 for greater detail)
6 The state (in its true sense as the cultural collective) should put its stamp on the economy. In general, public-private ownership mixes are essential for larger and strategic industry, while private ownership remains for small business.
The Eurasian idea is one that both defines those within it as well as excludes those without. In this case, the “other” is the “West.” In the broadest of terms, the cardinal ideas of the West are these:
1 Egocentrism manifest as abstract rights rather than function, station or vocation. Rights are more rhetorical and strategic than real.
2 Democracy as necessarily proceeding from nominalism. This is not merely a “procedure” but a state of affairs. Democracy exists when liberalism does.
3 Materialism and secularism in public and economic life. In general, since rights have no discernible origin, utilitarianism becomes the official ideology by default.
4 Liberal Messianism is crucial: liberalism needs to be imposed by force.
5 The west defines “state” as that which is bureaucratic and administrative.
6 Liberal rhetoric sounds merely procedural. This is to mask the ideological core of liberalism which is essentially totalitarianism.
7 Politicians serve as window dressing for economic elites. When the economy fails, the politicians, who control nothing, are said to be at fault.
8 Evolution is part of the west’s official ideology. It serves to a) secularize society, but more importantly, b) justify colonialism, industrial capitalism and “competition.”
9 “Rationality” is defined in purely economic terms.
10 “Science” and the “scientific establishment” are treated as identical. Science is defined as that which deals with formal and quantitative properties. This, in turn, is identical with the concept of “intelligibility.”
11 Liberalism rejects the “nation” as fiction, yet, holds formal quantity, the “international community,” and the isolated ego as palpable realities.
Nora said…07 September, 2014 19:29
All that “alpha male” nonsense is as phony as the “patriarchy” rubbish the “radical feminists” put out. These are two sides of the same wooden nickel, like nazis and zionists. The “chest beating” and the “breast beating” of such gender supremacist dribble should be seen as what it is – narrow minded insecurities expressing a profound lack of self awareness.
Naturally, such divisiveness between the genders is more than promoted by ZPC fascists. Besides the obvious divide and conquer strategy, they actually have quite a personal stake in promoting such closet gay supremacist crap. It’s their bread and butter, or better put, butter-butt, behind closed doors.
Report of Yaroush’s death from neck wounds.
Does anyone have a good source for the news or denial?
Regarding my point about Ukrainian military casualty rates in Donbas, I figured I’d back up my point by using US Vietnam and Soviet Afghanistan KIA tables as a comparison.
US Fatalities in Vietnam by Year
Soviet Fatalities in Afghanistan by Year
So, let’s assume that ATO’s KIA is approximately 1,800 after three months of combat. This figure is a good guess because it’s only double what the NSDC has officially admitted. That translates into 600 KIA per month, which is the equivalent of 7,200 war dead annually assuming the war continues for a year and ATO battle losses remain at their current levels. Statistically, that’s far in excess of the Soviet KIA for any year in Afghanistan, and it’s comparable to American war dead for the period of 1965 to 1970. I think these statistics illustrate what a military and political time bomb Kiev has created for itself by embarking on this war.
Again, I rule out ATO total KIA and WIA of 20,000 or more at this point because a slaughter of that magnitude would have been highly visible to the Ukrainian public. There would have been a revolution in Kiev by now. The political fallout — especially if it occurred in a time of social turbulence such as that experienced by Ukraine after Maidan — would have been impossible for Kiev to control.
I assume The Saker and his readers are students of Russian military history. Think about the political and social consequences of the Brusilov Offensive in 1916. Russian casualties were so high that they aggravated underlying political and social chaos throughout the country, leading directly to the 1917 revolution. I can’t imagine Kiev avoiding a similar upheaval as long as it remains fighting in the Donbas. It’s just a question of the casualties reaching that point that Ukrainians simply cannot tolerate.
I’m not feeling schadenfreude over Kiev’s pending political debacle. That’s because the Ukrainian people, tragically, have been duped into paying the ultimate price for being the pawns in an EU/US vs Moscow geopolitical struggle.
Another statement Yatsenyuk
“Yatseniuk: Ukraine will impose martial law in the Donbass in the event of failure of the truce.
Ukraine will have to enter the military situation in the Donbass, if reached a truce will not give a positive result. This statement was made was appointed by Parliament as Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk. In his opinion, the advantage of such measures is that Ukraine will be transferred “to the military sphere”.
“If we are talking about a ceasefire and the implementation of the negotiation process, if there is a peace plan, a peace plan supports the EU peace plan supported by the U.S. and the peace plan performs Russia, it is clear that the then martial law is not necessary, but if this truce will be ended as it ended all previous truce, and not only in Ukraine, another option will not be”
Yatsthewilliesuk is displaying here the sort of “logic” a brain debilitated by being a willing orifice on call any time for any taker. The thing is an “Ukrainian” version of Netanyahu.
The Scottish independence movement is a fraud as Tapley asserts. When I noticed the satanic media’s interest in break away movements from European countries, I supposed the deliberate strategy to Balkanise even further the nations that were already consolidated toward annihilation of national sovereignty. The Catalonians thirst for freedom? Garbage.
However, the timing of the Scottish vote is divine:- God knows what He is doing.
The UK/US satanists know the reach of their lethal tentacles, confident that they can reduce Scotland etc. to a fourth world ruin, that interested Scots know this—that the Evil Empire controls all switch points of power.
But further, God and Saker’s flock know that the power of the satanic societies is nearly finished. We also Know/suspect that the patriots anticipating independence ardently desire to be free from the perpetrators of media amplified ghastliness which the referendum offers an opportunity to condemn.
The Hate Establishment has been a tad too cunning; or else, we are in the hands of the just good God. Enough of us must be doing something to deserve His mercy, I think.
Returning to the question of whether East and West Ukraine can coexist with such a difference between their traditions of Christian faith, I came across a quotation just now that pertains:
“…If I can unite in myself the thought and devotion of Eastern and Western Christendom, the Greek and the Latin Fathers, the Russian and the Spanish mystics, I can prepare in myself the reunion of divided Christians. From that secret and unspoken unity in myself can eventually come a visible and manifest unity of all Christians. If we want to bring together what is divided, we cannot do so by imposing one division upon the other. If we do this, the union is not Christian. It is political and doomed to further conflict. We must contain all the divided worlds in ourselves and transcend them in Christ…”
one major problem is that a law will be passed to absolve parties of war crimes/crimes against humanity….the victims of the Odessa fire are to be forgotten and consigned to a loss of memory? the bombing of civilian targets by ukraine state army, clearly a war crime, is now forgotten? forgiven? however, this clause will not pass the World court in holland…and ukraine hopes to join eu and nato with pardoned war crimes? No way Lord!
Regardless of Saker’s gender, political affiliation, or his/her/its virtual mojo, what the hell does your Ad hominem rant have to do with the price of tea in China?
I see that the Dali Lama has accused Putin of being self centered….
I read an article a couple of years ago that was suspicious of the Dali Lama…he’s always on the side of big money…and Tibet is in the center of China… I wonder if the Tibetan monks are as holy as they seem…
I don’t have anything to do with the final on the book. It was in a maze of corporate types surrounding a business he was involved with. Last I heard it was going to press. Subsequently, he passed.
Here’s some detail on him from the website.
CASF refers to Composite Air Strike Force.
The Navy Wings are the Goal for naval aviators.
The missions indicated were mostly Top Secret at the time. He led the missions. One indicated at the Bering Sea into Russia was during Kennedy’s time. They flew at Mach 1 strafed the Soviet runway and blasted with sound barrier burst all the windows out of the base buildings. Sending a message to Soviets to stop overflying Alaska with Backfire Bombers. We recreated the mission with an animation of the event for a project I directed.
Thus ‘Fast and Low’ was common tagline for attack pilots (jet bombers, not fighter planes).
He was the first ever Top Gun award winner.
He led a fourteen hour flight with five refuelings to North Yemen to stop an attack against Saudi Kingdom. (In those days, pilots pissed into their boots, pants or cockpit on those long journeys with no stops.)
And I’ve sat at restaurant with him and the top test pilot of military jets who served as narrator of a video introduction of Paul’s “adventurous life”. Thus, the best of the best regarded him with awe and respect. (The test pilot was the first and only to ever survive the flat spinout of an F-14 Tomcat depicted in the film Top Gun. (Later this was a requirement for subsequent tests of all military fighter planes. Could a pilot survive a flat spinout?) Thus, I’ve seen the Alpha of Alphas, and they exist.
I picked up the check for the beers and meal with Paul and Don that day. It was an honor.
I saw the post “suspicious of Saker” but I rolled on past it because it wasn’t too interesting to me…
What do mean “God willing” that you will be back in the evening…? If Putin can make it back every evening, so will you…
Yup. They’re both phony, self-serving and close to laughably absurd. It’s truly amazing people can fall for that rubbish, but as I kinda alluded, I guess they just need to, for whatever reasons… That’s ultimately quite sad though, I think.
I shouldn’t have been surprised that quote came from Merton. It is beautiful, and that last sentence is a true, true keeper. Thank you. Where is it from?
It had seemed like a buzzing mosquito in my ear, or the sound of a distant surf, but it turns out to be a suspicion or question, and the surf being the receding tide of any semblance of unity in Kiev: This … ‘thing’ … hardly an agreement, seems more to be about Kive’s politics than Donbas at all. Donbas will do as it must, as it has been doing, and at this point it is still a matter of military strategy and decisions. Kiev, on the hand, and it’s relations with Russia, NATO, US, and EU, is in a chaotic state of flux, and this agreement is an insertion into that mess.
Donbas can ignore it, but for Kiev to do so is to invite complications and ramification, both internal and external, albeit, perhaps, out of view. The reactions of the nazis to this, in opposition to Poroschenko, is one of the areas of concern, and possibly will be a wedge between the two: the nazis go feral while Poro gains some legitimacy? This is not a map of what will happen on the ground, over a bit of time, but a bone of contention between Poro, the nazis, and Ukrainian people who have indeed had enough of the war. It also a path for NATO to retreat on for a little while, although maybe a dead end — and yet gives some space to avoid some of the immediate pressure of its defeat.
Perhaps, perhaps… it’s obscure ad chaotic, and yet maybe a line of thought worth considering.
Ann, the so-called ‘Dalai Lama’ has been a CIA asset since the 1950s. You get a good idea of just what a vicious swine he really is, behind the giggling PR facade, by his refusal to issue a diktat, as he could as the supposed ‘spiritual leader’ of the Tibetans, forbidding the useless tide of self-immolations going on inside China. This nasty tactic, generally utilising dim and impressionable patsies, can not have any influence on Chinese policy, but is tailor-made for consumption by Western audiences as part of the never-ending Sinophobic hate campaign against China.
I wasn’t talking about the book, dear. I was teasing you about your rather purple prose whenever it comes to guy stuff… ;~)
We had a truly memorable experience with a real alpha male wolf one time though: a whole group of us went calling with them one night; they were radio-tagged so our guide knew where to find them and so we’d howl (Mr. Nora was actually quite good at it), and they answered back. Which was neat enough, right, but then we called back and it took them a while of moving but they called back again, which our guide had never had happen before. So we moved and then called a third time, they moved again and then only a couple of them called. It was pretty obvious they thought we were a new pack invading their turf, right — but then we realized what’d happened bc all of a sudden all the pups (who were *not* where the most recent calls had been coming from) apparently panicked and just started yipping and yelping in abject terror. And we were feeling pretty darned awful at having scared them like that and were getting ready to go, and they’re still yipping away when all of a sudden, this INCREDIBLY deep Daddy Voice barks out what was obviously the wolf equivalent of, “Hey you kids, Shut. Up. NOW!” And they did, instantly! And we just stood there in amazement, never having understood animal language quite so clearly before… They’d tried to divert us away from the pups, obviously, and then the pups revealed where they were but boyoboy, did they obey him on the spot! We all felt guilty as hell for upsetting them so much just for our personal pleasure, but still so incredibly privileged to have “seen” that happen.
Now your guy might have been something else, though the couple of fighter pilots I’ve known I just found pathetically insecure and obnoxious as hell. Otoh, I’m still impressed by that alpha wolf, and the whole pack, really, for protecting those pups like that. But then, that’s true Darwinian Survival of the Fittest — not some guy thumping his chest bc he thinks he’s the top of the heap, but a group developing ways to work together to guarantee the survival of a healthily wide bunch of genes for the sake of the survival of the species. Different groups do it different ways, of course — except us. Especially in the West, we destroy instead.
GW @ 08 September, 2014 00:29
I would compare the situation of the Ukrainian Army at the moment to that of the German army on the eastern front in mid-1943 around Kursk — still dangerous, but already having lost ground and suffered catastrophic losses. I do expect a Battle of Kharkov type of scenario where the NAF suffers some setbacks. But
Being able to raise a partisan army behind Ukie lines especially in the Carpathians that can interfere with recruiting and take out Right Sector lunatics there could open a minor 2nd front and drain Ukie manpower. Regardless of what toys NATO countries start to deliver manpower and primarily trained manpower is still the Ukies biggest problem. It is also the problem for the NAF which is why any assault including on Mariupol must proceed cautiously.
@Ann said: What do mean “God willing” that you will be back in the evening…? If Putin can make it back every evening, so will you…
Saker is a Muslim in disguise. He keeps on saying “InshaAllah (God willing)” all the time! ~:)
InshaAllah, you and I will be back later too!
We have “freewill” but our will is under “Islam (Will of God)”.
Make sense, no?
“Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind”
In his last days, President Reagan was wearing diapers.
Nora at 04:09,
Yes, I thought the quote hit the nail on the head, particularly the sentence that says, “If we want to bring together what is divided, we cannot do so by imposing one division upon the other.”
The quote is from “Conjectures of a guilty Bystander” but you can also find out more about Merton’s affinity with Orthodoxy at a site I found last night:
“I see that the Dali Lama has accused Putin of being self centered….”
That’s a pure projection and pure politics on the part of the Dalai Lama.
He is irked by the strengthening Sino-Russian alliance, which made Tibet disappear from the headlines.
Also, since most of his pocket money and political support comes from the USA, he’ll always say what he believes Americans want to hear. It’s also plausible that US government asked him to say that to complicate Russian diplomacy in Mongolia, which due to its geography had just become a Russian protectorate.
Thank you — have bookmarked! ;~)
American [email protected] SEPTEMBER, 2014 05:39
“I would compare the situation of the Ukrainian Army at the moment to that of the German army on the eastern front in mid-1943 around Kursk…”
The comparison with Kursk is especially interesting given that today’s twitter updates assert that major action is occurring at Debaltseve. I’m sure you’re aware that Debaltseve, like Kursk, represents a salient in the battle lines. Supposedly the ATO has poured large numbers of troops and armor into the Debaltseve salient, possibly for the purpose of counterattacking in the direction of Krasnyi Luch.
The most recent twitter updates allege that Novorossiyan forces are pounding the flanks of the Debaltseve salient, and that possibly they’ve achieved another encirclement. If true, that would make your comparison with Kursk all the more appropriate.
Setting up an anti-Kiev partisan front in the Carpathian Mountains sounds great, but I can’t believe that it’s viable. Aren’t the people in that region extremely hostile to Russians (and by extension, Novorossiyans)?
On the Protocol
I think its quite clever
wordsmithing….stringing together a group of words that are essentially meaningless but contain a few buzzwords. It contains the word “cease fire”. It talks about “prisoners of war” It speaks of both Kiev and Donbass and it does include Russia who signed the thing.
My father, a journalist, would often present us with a concept that had us go numb and speechless. The idea was to make us THINK and WHAT we could pick up out of this string of words that might lead us to anything meaningful. Or how we can hoodwink others in believing something we have no intention of doing.
What Russia did was create a clever face saving event in Minsk for the Kiev junta and the U.S. while NATO made it very clear it was out. So the U.S. went home and will wordsmith it into some form of victory having forced a concession from Putin. Of course the U.S. was never part of any discussion, but that shall remain outside the MSM. Most people have already forgotten while the MSM is yapping about the cease fire holding while it never stopped. The psychology of warfare. One strike for Putin!!!